[14:46] <dilomo> _MMA_: thanks
[14:47] <_MMA_> np
[14:53] <dilomo> _MMA_: some people say they are too dirty or that the X should be of the same height
[14:53] <dilomo> _MMA_: do you agree?
[14:54] <_MMA_> I'm unsure. I kinda like it being different.
[14:54] <_MMA_> Personally, I try to be odd/different where I can. :)
[14:55] <dilomo> :) me too but most of the ppl don't undertsand me
[14:55] <_MMA_> Hell with them. ;)
[14:56] <_MMA_> Do *your* own thing.
[14:57] <dilomo> btw do you want to test the theme to tell me more about how it feels on prelight
[14:57] <_MMA_> Sure.
[14:57] <dilomo> I have to upload it somewher or send it to your email
[14:57] <dilomo> ?
[14:57] <_MMA_> email is fine
[14:58] <dilomo> which one should I use? the ubuntu one?
[14:58] <_MMA_> Yep
[15:00] <dilomo> sent
[15:01] <_MMA_> k
[15:02] <dilomo> _MMA_: after you test the them you may not like the metacity because the prelight state is somehow different. You will see ...
[15:03] <_MMA_> ok. I'm checkin' email now.
[15:04] <dilomo> thorwil: what about you? What do you think?
[15:06] <_MMA_> dilomo: Odd. The theme doesn't just drag n' drop into the theme manager.
[15:07] <dilomo> _MMA_: I don't know what is doing this. I packed the folder.
[15:07] <_MMA_> No. Im sorry. Its a conflict with existing theme.
[15:12] <_MMA_> dilomo: Yeah. I don't know about the pre-light. And can the "Maximize" button be centered between the "Close" and "Minimize"?
[15:14] <_MMA_> dilomo: And "Shade" the window. Underneath your buttons, but around the outer frame, the 1px black outline is missing.
[15:14] <_MMA_> "Shade" without Compiz on.
[15:15] <dilomo> I'm not using compiz
[15:16] <dilomo> and on the screenshot I have the outline
[15:16] <dilomo> http://www.piccdrop.com/images/1229782040.png
[15:18] <dilomo> _MMA_:  btw what is this "Shade" there is some setting for shade in the xml file but I don't know what is shade so I don't change them
[15:19] <_MMA_> Yes. The outline is only missing on shade. When you double-click on the titlebar, it "rolls up" instead of maximizes.
[15:20] <dilomo> _MMA_: nope on my ubuntu it maximizes
[15:20] <_MMA_> Its a switch.
[15:20] <dilomo> where?
[15:20] <_MMA_> gconf: /apps/metacity/general/action_double_click_titlebar: toggle_shade
[15:21] <_MMA_> But there's a GUI setting somewhere.
[15:22] <_MMA_> System->Preferences->Windows
[15:22] <dilomo> ok I'll fix this but why you think I should move the max button right
[15:24] <_MMA_> Like I said above, to "center it". Because the space between Maximize and Close is so small I think it doesn't work.
[15:24] <_MMA_> So I would personally even up the spacing.
[15:25] <dilomo> but if I even it up then I should shorten the button too
[15:27] <_MMA_> Why? Just move the Maximize button to the right a bit. Or minimize to the left.
[15:29] <dilomo> _MMA_: the thing is I can't. If I adjust the x-axis of the image it doesn't move
[15:30] <_MMA_> Hmm... Odd.
[15:32] <_MMA_> I'll look at it.
[15:32] <dilomo> sorry my mistake. I did it but
[15:32] <dilomo> the image is trimmed
[15:33] <_MMA_> I bet there's something clipping it.
[15:38] <dilomo> _MMA_: I'm using a gradien that's drawn from metacity but haven't thought that it might clip this
[15:38] <_MMA_> dilomo: Try this gtkrc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/89269
[15:38] <_MMA_> Im still playing with the Metacity.
[15:38] <dilomo> what's new with the gtkrc?
[15:39] <_MMA_> That gtkrc tightens up the menu items and removes the scroolbar buttons. Just an idea.
[15:39] <_MMA_> :P
[15:42] <_MMA_> Or try lines 57 and 60 set to = 1.
[15:43] <dilomo> _MMA_: interesting about the scroll but many ppl would not understand "what's going on". You can make a different non-standart version of new wave if you wish ;)
[15:44] <_MMA_> Why wouldn't they? :) I tend to think the arrows are redundant. And try try lines 57 and 60 set to = 1. That puts them together.
[15:45] <_MMA_> Personally, I try to present something different but try to keep functionality. Removing the arrows doesn't take the ability to scroll.
[15:46] <dilomo> that's true indeed and I like that "outting together" of the arrows
[15:47] <thorwil> dilomo: was away and going again just now :}
[15:47] <_MMA_> Yeah. I'm playing with the idea of removing the arrows in Studio's theme. At the very least I'll put them together.
[15:48] <dilomo> _MMA_: but there are programs that do what they want like FF
[15:49] <_MMA_> dilomo: Sure, but it respects this arrow option.
[15:49] <_MMA_> I've been testing the no arrows with Studio and had no issue so far.
[15:50] <dilomo> hmm I just tested it with new wave and it didn't worked in FF
[15:50] <_MMA_> Did you restart FF?
[15:50] <_MMA_> Works fine here.
[15:51] <dilomo> evidently no :).  I have forgotten one window in the next workspace
[15:51] <_MMA_> :P
[15:52] <_MMA_> At the very least, putting the arrows together is nice because it puts them all within close proximity of each other. All in the one corner.
[15:53] <dilomo> yes true.
[15:56] <_MMA_> And I use the "gtk-icon-sizes = "panel-menu=22,22"" to tighten up the menu in Studio because we tend to have alot of menu items and it helps alot on smaller screens. And I generally think it looks better. The GNOME defaults are a bit big IMO.
[15:59] <dilomo> Yes. They are bit bigger. I may consider this and make the menus thicker
[16:00] <_MMA_> "Thicker" or thinner? :)
[16:00] <dilomo> I have to go skating on ice (how is this exactly in English)
[16:00] <dilomo> thinner :)
[16:01] <_MMA_> :)0
[16:01] <_MMA_> I would say: "I'm going ice skating."
[16:02] <dilomo> nice :), see ya
[20:29] <dilomo> _MMA_: I'm back
[20:29] <dilomo> Do you know what causes this message from twf: GtkSpinButton: setting an adjustment with non-zero page size is deprecated
[20:29] <_MMA_> No, but I've seen that come up in other apps also. I think it's a GTK thing.
[20:31] <dilomo> But it was not showing in the prev version and I haven't changes the spin buttons at all. That's strange. Did you succeed in moveing the button in the metacity I sent you?
[20:32] <_MMA_> I got wrapped up in things at home.
[20:32] <_MMA_> I'm also about to head off for the rest of the day. Gotta spend time with the family. ;)
[20:33] <dilomo> sure. family first
[20:34] <dilomo> just to ask you if I want to keep the empty space between the X and the rest how much should I increase it?
[20:35] <_MMA_> I don't understand what you mean.
[20:35] <_MMA_> A mockup would help. :)
[20:37] <dilomo> sec
[20:38] <_MMA_> k
[20:39] <dilomo> look at the focused window:http://www.piccdrop.com/images/1229805506.png
[20:39] <_MMA_> k
[20:40] <lucazade> dilomo, new metacity buttons are cool!
[20:40] <lucazade> ;)
[20:41] <_MMA_> dilomo: Ok. So you want to add *more* space. I'd have to tinker. I think there was a limit to how far you could push it but that might not apply to pixmap.
[20:41] <dilomo> lucazade: thanks but I have a problem with usability - most of the ppl I have sent the theme to don't like the prelight state
[20:41] <lucazade> i'll try it..
[20:42] <dilomo> _MMA_: I think there is some limit but I may experiment
[20:42] <dilomo> lucazade: do you have email and I'll send it to you
[20:42] <lucazade> luca.forina@gmail.com
[20:43] <dilomo> lucazade: sent
[20:44] <lucazade> received tnx
[20:44] <dilomo> btw do you guys think that the theme should be tested by more ppl. I can write to the mailing list ...
[20:45] <lucazade> yes it maybe a chance
[20:45] <lucazade> may be
[20:45] <lucazade> :-/
[20:45] <dilomo>  lucazade: what is it so bad?
[20:46] <lucazade> my english is bad.. still trying the theme
[20:48] <lucazade> well i like this more than previous releases.. still too much contrast for my tastes. the close X button of metacity lacks right border?!
[20:49] <thorwil> dilomo: with the spacing on the front window on http://www.piccdrop.com/images/1229805506.png you are moving towards too much. at some point the width taken for the buttons becomes a problem for narrow windows /that might have long titles)
[20:50] <lucazade> ok it depends on font size of the titlebar
[20:50] <dilomo> thorwil: this metacity is realy something that is tricky.
[20:51] <dilomo> lucazade: you are missing right border?
[20:51] <_MMA_> Can one set a font size in Metacity? Override the default?
[20:51] <dilomo> _MMA_: don't know that
[20:51] <lucazade> using 8.5px (my current settings) i can't see clearly the right border of x button
[20:52] <lucazade> with bigger font is ok
[20:53] <dilomo> I haven't thought of that :(
[20:54] <_MMA_> dilomo: Design for default font size and maybe 1-2 points below/above. You can't cover every use case.
[20:55] <dilomo> the bad thing is that the buttons get messy when used font less then 10
[20:55] <_MMA_> On what? The titlebar buttons?
[20:56] <lucazade> yep
[20:56] <_MMA_> They are fine here using 9pt font.
[20:56] <_MMA_> (on 2 machines)
[20:57] <dilomo> no the two small ones get very close
[20:57] <_MMA_> dilomo: That's what I was asking you about before. :)
[20:57] <_MMA_> It looks intentional as it's that way with larger fonts as well.
[20:58] <_MMA_> Only below 9pt does it get kinda odd.
[20:58] <_MMA_> (borders touch)
[20:58] <_MMA_> Here anyway.
[20:58] <dilomo> probably that's because the buttons depend on the title. How can I change that
[20:58] <_MMA_> dilomo: So to answer you earlier question, yes. Wider testing is good. :)
[20:59] <_MMA_> dilomo: It might be a "padding" size.
[20:59] <dilomo> _MMA_: so I should not increase the space between X/max but between min/max?
[21:00] <dilomo> lucazade: how do you find the theme? Any bugs?
[21:00] <lucazade> atm no
[21:00] <lucazade> no bugs
[21:00] <_MMA_> I would find a way to equal out the space and test down to 8pt font.
[21:01] <_MMA_> (space between the buttons)
[21:02] <dilomo> _MMA_: note that the X has a dozen of pixesl empty to make the gap
[21:02] <_MMA_> Ahh...
[21:02] <dilomo> lucazade: I don't want to look stupid but what atm stands for?
[21:02]  * _MMA_ didnt know.
[21:02] <lucazade> i think metacity corners should be less rounded like the rest of the theme
[21:02] <lucazade> at the moment
[21:03] <lucazade> i suppose :P
[21:03] <dilomo> thanks
[21:03] <dilomo> _MMA_: so I can make the X wider if I want to
[21:13] <dilomo> I sent an email to everybody in the list to join testing
[21:14] <dilomo> lucazade: so what are your suggestions for the buttons (except that they are unusable at 8.5px)
[21:15] <lucazade> i like it, i would not change
[21:16] <lucazade> using 10pt the buttons looks ok also the prelight state
[21:17] <dilomo> yes but why are you using 8,5px
[21:17] <lucazade> prefear smaller titlebar
[21:19] <dilomo> ok
[21:25] <dilomo> I have to
[21:25] <dilomo> go bye
[21:25] <lucazade> bye