[00:07] <jussi01> ikonia: ping
[00:24] <five__> why am i banned from offtopic?
[00:24] <bazhang> @login
[00:25] <bazhang> !give bazhang a test
[00:25]  * five__ gives bazhang Elton John
[00:26] <bazhang> five__, that is why
[00:26] <five__> im confused
[00:26] <five__> how about this, how do i get unbanned?
[00:27] <bazhang> you were asked to disable that give script and have failed to do so five__ 
[00:27] <five__> oh, i thought i disabled all of them
 ACTION gives bazhang Elton John
[00:28] <five__> can you help me out with what script it is?
[00:28] <five__> weird i dont remember that script
[00:28] <bazhang> five__, disable them all
[00:28] <five__> let me check it out ill brb
[00:29] <five__> ill be back
[00:47] <bazhang> !give bazhang a test
[00:47]  * five__ gives bazhang a football stadium
[00:47] <bazhang> five__, not turned off
[00:48] <five__> yeah sorry im leaving, having mouse issues
[00:48] <five__> it auto joins this channel
[03:00] <Flannel> eh.  I look away for two minutes and the trouble starts
[03:58] <Flannel> Anyone around with -ot?
[04:48] <Pici> @login
[04:48] <anfangs> Hi. My address is banned in #ubuntu. Why might that be?
[04:49] <Pici> anfangs: One moment.
[04:50] <Pici> anfangs: Looks like theres an old ban for 'slim', probably doesn't need to be there anymore. I'll remove it.
[04:50] <Pici> anfangs: You may join #ubuntu now.
[04:51] <anfangs> thanks.
[05:17] <five> i have set -n on xchat
[05:17] <five> no plugins are loaded
[05:18] <five> may i be unbanned from offtopic please, and thank you :)
[05:27] <Flannel> !give ubottu a test
[05:28] <Flannel> five: You realise why you were banned, not just "becuase I used a script", etc, etc, but why we don't allow scripts?  And have you read over the IRC guidelines?
[05:28] <five> i was using the script on another chan
[05:29] <Flannel> Why you had it enabled isn't really important.  Do you understand why we don't allow them?
[05:29] <five> i understand that yes
[05:29] <Flannel> and have you read the IRC guidelines?
[05:29] <five> no
[05:30] <Flannel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[05:30] <five> ok
[05:32] <five> ok i have read it
[05:32] <five> i am sorry for the bots
[05:32] <Flannel> five: alright, I've unbanned you from #ubuntu, you'll have to wait around here for someone to wake up that can handle -offtopic
[05:34] <five> Flannel thank you, i understand the need for your rules with the large user base and would hate to be banned from here as ubuntu is my favorite OS XD
[07:18] <bazhang> please check |_ocke in -ot
 i just got a new gf in the last like 4 days
[07:20] <bazhang> ad nauseam
[07:24] <bazhang> :/
[07:42] <bazhang> * [dirty-cow-lovin] (n=mkultra@71-90-99-251.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com): Unknown
[07:44] <bazhang> changed to cattle-rancher (satan666 was taken)
[08:08] <NEWK> hi
[08:08] <NEWK> I need to get to #kubuntu
[08:08] <NEWK> but 'm using a web client called mibbit
[08:09] <NEWK> and it just redirects me to the "ubuntu prroxy users" channel
[08:09] <NEWK> and thn it invites me to #ubuntu after it sees that I'm using mibbit
[08:09] <NEWK> but I need to be in #kubuntu
[09:14] <five> hello can anyone here unban me from offtopic
[09:18] <ikonia> hav eyou removed the scripts
[09:18] <ikonia> five: have you removed the scripts you where asked to 
[09:19] <five> ikonia i added -n to xchat, no scripts load auto now and i will not come here with scripts loaded
[09:20] <five> also i read the rules on the site :)
[09:20] <ikonia> your also ban dodging in ubuntu
[09:20] <ikonia> you've changed your ip to get around aban
[09:20] <five> no
[09:20] <five> i was lifted there
[09:20] <five> no i havent
[09:21] <ikonia> so you have
[09:21] <ikonia> my apologies
[09:21] <five> flannel unbanned me after i added the exception to xchat start
[09:21] <ikonia> yes, I see that
[09:21] <five> no prob, my apologies for the scripts
[09:21] <ikonia> out of curiosity, why did it take you 3 attempts to disable the scripts ?
[09:21] <ikonia> I asked you / remomved you on two other occasions
[09:21] <ikonia> removed 
[09:22] <five> oh lol, well i had quite a few and i thought i disabled all of the auto scripts, finally i just set xchat to start with no scripts
[09:22] <five> i was bored the other night and i downloaded a bunch of scripts, bad idea i guess
[09:22] <ikonia> ok, as soon as elkbuntu becomes available I'll ask her to remove the ban in offtopic for you
[09:22] <five> if theres a command to unload all scripts at once i dont know it
[09:22] <five> ok thnx
[09:25] <ikonia> if there's  nothing else you need your welcome to leave the channel
[09:25] <ikonia> I'm sure elkbuntu or one of the offtopic guys will be around int he next 10 - 15 minutes and will remove the ban
[09:26] <ikonia> !idle | five 
[09:27] <five> ok sure
[09:27] <ikonia> thanks
[09:27] <five> bye 
[09:38] <ikonia> can someone please look in on -ot, I feel it's going to be bad shortly with great opening lines like "homeless women do anything for money"
[09:38] <Flannel> ikonia: I don't think anyone -ot is awake
[09:39] <Flannel> However, it does appear to have diverted
[10:02] <Flannel> ubottu: tell KuR3 about nickspam
[10:49] <jussi01> !lvm
[10:55] <ikonia> jussi01: can you please remove five's ban in -ot 
[10:55] <jussi01> ikonia: I still have no access there, I guess I should really talk to someone about that
[10:55] <ikonia> ughh
[10:55] <bazhang> heh
[10:56] <ikonia> does anyone have access ?
[10:56] <jussi01> 1 sec
[10:56] <bazhang> it was a real cesspool a few hours ago
[10:56] <ikonia> I know
[10:56] <bazhang> |_ocke and zaapiel especially
[10:56] <ikonia> zaapiel is an issue, I want to talk to him as his comments are just radomly uncalled for
[10:57] <jussi01> @login
[10:57] <bazhang> |_ocke had this issue before as well; talking about really explicit stuff
[10:57] <jussi01> @bansearch five
[10:57] <jussi01> ikonia: why should five be unbanned?
[10:57] <ikonia> jussi01 he's fived his script issue, and was pretty "nice" and honest about it
[10:58] <ikonia> I asked elk to put the ban on, he came in earlier and showed they where removed
[10:59] <jussi01> ikonia: right. elkbuntu should be awake so hopefully she is around to help
[10:59] <ikonia> not had a response from her, and it seems a tad harsh to leave the ban on after he met the requirments
[10:59] <ikonia> and after it was me who asked her to put the ban on 
[11:00] <jussi01> yeah, if I could Id do something, but until things get sorted, I cant. 
[11:00] <ikonia> yup
[11:00] <Flannel> I already removed the one from #u three hours ago.  He seems like he was just plain confused about all the scripts.
[11:00] <ikonia> Flannel: I noted, he was "fine" in here, expalined he was bored and downloaded scripts and didn't know how to use them so he deleted them
[11:00] <ikonia> pretty honest
[11:01] <ikonia> no " well XXX so you can't YYY" just "sorry"
[11:01] <Flannel> Aye
[11:06] <jussi01> ooh, Gary seems active. Gary around?
[11:08] <ikonia> bazhang: fyi basileus change his ip to a non-isp style one
[11:08] <Gary> jussi01: kinda
[11:08] <jussi01> Gary: can you sort out that ban ikonia mentioned before
[11:08] <jussi01> please ? :)
[11:09] <ikonia> bazhang (the guy from yesterday's auto ip switching lies)
[11:09] <ikonia> Gary: please
[11:09] <bazhang> ikonia, the ban evader from yesterday who did not understand any warnings before he was banned?
[11:09] <ikonia> bazhang: yeah thats him
[11:09] <Gary> what nick?
[11:09] <ikonia> bazhang: his ip magically has changed again to a different IP range no with the same isp
[11:09] <bazhang> five
[11:09] <ikonia> Gary: five in -ot
[11:09] <ikonia> Gary: pleae remove the ban
[11:09] <bazhang> ikonia, so your hunch was right
[11:10] <ikonia> bazhang: it would appear so 
[11:12] <Gary> and elky is okay with this?
[11:12] <Gary> (wondering why she cannot unban herself?)
[11:13] <Gary> reading above btw
[11:13] <Gary> done
[11:13] <ikonia> ta
[11:15] <bazhang> n=lolita@athedsl-372779.home.otenet.gr
[11:16] <bazhang> was he unbanned? ^^
[11:17] <jussi01> is that sken?
[11:17] <bazhang> sure looks like it
[11:17] <ikonia> bazhang what makes you think it's sken ?
[11:18] <ikonia> sken normally has chatzilla ident
[11:18] <bazhang> ikonia, the ip address?
[11:18] <ikonia> thats dynamic isn't it ?
 how do i get fonts that can kick OSX's butt in ubuntu?
[11:18] <ikonia> what nick is it
[11:19] <bazhang> plus the general tone of his posts in #ubuntu and -ot
[11:19] <ikonia> it is sken
[11:19] <ikonia> its the same question about fonts as he's been asking
[11:21] <ikonia> look at he real name too "mofo"
[11:22] <ikonia> he's claiming it's not sken
[11:23] <ikonia> not really sure how to deal with it to be honest
[11:23] <bazhang> think it was mez that said: 'give him enough rope'
[11:24] <ikonia> he's had that
[11:24] <ikonia> hence the 25 bans
[11:24] <ikonia> thats enough rope
[11:24] <bazhang> then kb
[11:24] <bazhang> I'll remove him after a chat
[11:24] <ikonia> and I refuse to allow this guy to dodge bans and get support with his attitude
[11:24] <ikonia> I'm chatting to him now
[11:24] <ikonia> and he claims not to be scan
[11:24] <ikonia> his ident IS different, 
[11:24] <ikonia> thats teh only thing thats stopping me
[11:25] <bazhang> its him no doubt though
[11:25] <bazhang> the general tenor of his demands, asking about fonts, etc
[11:25] <ikonia> well, in my opinion yes, I agree
[11:25] <ikonia> but is that enough to remove him
[11:25] <ikonia> the ident is changed, and thats bugging me
[11:25] <ikonia> all the time he never learned how to change it, now he can
[11:26] <ikonia> @btlogin
[11:26] <bazhang> well if you recall when I unmuted fryguy I somehow removed the ban on athedsl etc otenet.gr
[11:27] <ikonia> yes, thats true, but that was a pretty speicifc ban
[11:27] <bazhang> good point
[11:27] <ikonia> there are lots of regular users using otenet.gr
[11:29] <ikonia> I'm tempted, and this is only thinking out loud as I don't believe it is acceptable, to bring him in here and ask him to change his real name from "mo fo"  (mother fucker) to see how he reacts
[11:29] <ikonia> I like you am %99 certain it's sken, and as I said I refuse to allow this guy to get support after the hassle he causes, but it's not fair to remove someone who I'm not %100 certain on
[11:31] <bazhang> yep I understand that
[11:32] <ikonia> it's him he's using xcaht
[11:32] <ikonia> just versioned him
[11:32] <ikonia> and he's using kde
[11:32] <ikonia> 11:31 CTCP VERSION reply from mafaldaboy: xchat 2.8.6 Linux 2.6.27.7-9-default [x86_64/1.60GHz/SMP]
[11:32] <ikonia> his cersion matches the last time I versioned sken
[11:33] <bazhang> then he is ban evading for the 26th time
[11:33] <Gary> 26 times, wow
[11:33] <ikonia> is that enough to go on ?
[11:33] <ikonia> the version on his client, the ISP, his question, His tone, ?
[11:34] <Gary> how much more do you need?
[11:34] <ikonia> well I don't know, I'm using you guys as a sounding board
[11:34] <bazhang> he was in earlier as championsleague also
[11:34] <ikonia> be bad to remove someone thats not him
[11:36] <ikonia> ok, I'm not %100 I can't do it
[11:36] <ikonia> as championsleague he was still using chatzilla ident
[11:37] <bazhang> then hold off
[11:38] <ikonia> got to 
[11:39] <ikonia> well, he seems to be intereacting better than normal
[11:40] <bazhang> cattle-rancher was removed before, for coming into the channel with the nick 'Cow-Sex'
[11:40] <ikonia> I saw
[11:42] <Gary> 5
[11:42] <ikonia> ?
[11:43] <Gary> sorry, missed the /
[11:46] <ikonia> bazhang: it's not sken
[11:46] <ikonia> bazhang: %100 now
[11:46] <bazhang> ikonia, okay
[11:46] <bazhang> ikonia, good thing you held off :)
[11:46] <ikonia> nmaped him, he has different services running
[11:47] <ikonia> when I actually exapliend the situations on why he was getting the questions he was nice as pie and totally understood and conversed in sensible english, which is not sken
[11:48] <bazhang> heh. sken really put me on edge
[11:48] <bazhang> so the wariness is warranted imo
[11:48] <ikonia> well after the hassle he caused, I refuse to allow him back in or to get support until he can actually just grow up a bit and stop trolling
[11:48] <ikonia> hence why I'm cautious of anything "sken like"
[11:49] <bazhang> 'sken-ish'
[12:02] <ikonia> is it possible to set highlights on join comments
[12:03] <ikonia> I think I've figured out a way to track him :)
[12:04] <bazhang> sken-tracker :)
[12:05] <ikonia> well looking at soe docs on the net for the .gr isp's and it looks like his has a handy way of breaking down paterns
[12:05] <ikonia> eg: athedel = athens region
[12:05] <ikonia> then the numbers are area codes
[12:06] <ikonia> so a trace route on his ips to his gateawy would give us what region codes that gateway supports :)
[12:06] <ikonia> so it would be a very narrow ban :)
[12:06] <ikonia> or at least easy to verify if it was him
[12:06] <bazhang> he'll rue the day :)
[12:06] <ikonia> nah, just fed up with him
[12:07] <ikonia> the interenet is an amazing resource for knowledge: )
[12:50] <jussi01> !staff
[12:50] <jussi01> [14:50:28] <hatman> http://www.fianceexposed.com/index.php?c=viral&m=index&id=28ae03cf243604eee3ff9f8b741f499d
[12:50] <jussi01> [14:50:28] <hatman> http://www.fianceexposed.com/index.php?c=viral&m=index&id=28ae03cf243604eee3ff9f8b741f499d
[12:50] <jussi01> in #ubuntu - I banned him though.
[12:51] <tomaw> ta
[12:51] <jussi01> np.
[12:52] <jussi01> tomaw: I assume he is now gone and I can remove that ban?
[12:53] <tomaw> he's not gone but seems to have stopped spamming when I asked him to
[12:53] <jussi01> ok. Ill remove the ban and hope he doesnt do it again.
[13:00] <Pici> I'm going to go through some of ompaul's old bans today. Probably end up removing some of the old ones.
[13:00] <Pici> Someone came through yesterday because there was a realname ban on 'slim'. From august.
[13:55] <ikonia> Pici: I'd removed mosto f them
[13:55] <ikonia> Pici: the ones that should be left where ones Ompaul asked me/others to leave
[13:59]  * jussi01 eyes ikonia
[14:09] <Mez> bazhang: who are we on about giving some rope?
[14:24] <jussi01> !bot
[14:24] <stdin> !search tinyurl
[14:26] <stdin> !no bots is <alais> ubotu
[14:26] <stdin> !no bot is <alais> ubotu
[14:26] <stdin> !bot
[14:26] <stdin> dumb bot
[14:27] <jussi01> hehe
[14:27] <stdin> !no bot is <alias> ubotu
[14:27] <jussi01> dumb you
[14:27] <stdin> !no bots is <alias> ubotu
[14:27] <stdin> I know, but I wrote the thing, so it's dumb by proxy :)
[14:27] <stdin> !bot
[14:27] <jussi01> heheheheheheh
[14:28] <stdin> factoids !installing and !install need merging
[14:36] <Pici> stdin: merged
[14:36] <Pici> !-installing
[14:36] <stdin> thanks Pici 
[14:40] <jussi01> !-bot
[14:40] <jussi01> !-ubotu
[14:42] <bazhang> Mez, just quoting you in a time of doubt; hope you dont mind :)
[14:42] <Mez> bazhang: Give them some rope, but if you give them enough, they'll hang themselves
[14:43] <bazhang> Mez, yep
[15:47] <ikonia> Pici: you owe me half a can of diet coke
[15:47] <ikonia> and some pride
[15:47] <LjL> hm, magnitudo 5.3 isn't a lot is it
[15:47] <Pici> ikonia: hmm? Why's that?
[15:48] <Pici> LjL: Earthquake?
[15:48] <bazhang> kerik seems just to have been uninformed after all
[15:48] <LjL> Pici: yes, 130km from here as google earth kindly informs me
[15:48] <ikonia> Pici I just read your comment about the guy who said "I hate linux, I hate ubuntu, fuck linux" and your kick message "I'm sorry to hear that" made me spit out my drink and caused me shame in front of my collegues
[15:48] <bazhang> hehe
[15:48] <Pici> :)
[15:48] <bazhang> you missed the !!!!!!!!111
[15:49] <ikonia> I try to moderate lol/omg/!!!!!!/??? etc
[15:49] <LjL> Pici: we all felt it here so i was afraid it was pretty strong (since having its center here is not only unlikely but impossible)
[15:49] <ikonia> even in extreme moments
[15:50] <bazhang> I meant in his message before he was booted :)
[15:50] <ikonia> oh
[15:50] <LjL> it was deep, though, 30km depth
[15:50] <LjL> so i guess that must be why all the north felt it even though it wasn't all that strong
[15:50] <ikonia> LjL: no damage I assume at your range
[15:52] <LjL> ikonia: nah, except i might have had a heart attack because it *felt* like i was having a heart attack until i realized it was a quake
[15:52] <LjL> ikonia: (you know, my chair's got a flexible back and it felt strange)
[15:52] <Pici> I don't remember any of the earthquakes that I've been through.  I was too young at the time.
[15:52] <ikonia> strange in a good way ;)
[15:52] <LjL> i'd hope there's no damage in general
[15:53] <ikonia> the fashion world could collapse
[15:53] <Pici> LjL: Whats the nearest large city near you that I would find on a map?
[15:53] <LjL> Pici: err, milan. which isn't near me, it's where i am.
[15:53] <LjL> Pici: the quake was near Parma, though
[15:54] <LjL> Pici: if that's gearth you're using, google "google earth earthquakes" and the first hit is the USGS, which has a kml with the quake
[15:55] <Pici> LjL: I was using this: http://kharita.rm.ingv.it/Gmaps/rec-big/en/index.htm
[15:55] <LjL> Pici: ah it loads now? it was entirely broken five minutes ago
[15:56] <Pici> Some of the pages load.
[15:56] <LjL> Pici: i'm not sure i see the relevant quake tbh
[15:56] <Pici> LjL: Me either.
[15:57] <LjL> Pici: i'll tell you a secret, italian state-run sites suck.
[15:57] <LjL> Pici: when we want to know something about our country, we use US data.
[15:57] <Pici> LjL: I got to that link from the USGS site 
[16:01] <LjL> Pici: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/catalogs/eqs7day-age.kmz you can load this also in google maps if you don't have google earth, just paste it in the search box
[16:05] <Pici> LjL: Oh neat. I didn't know that google maps supported kmz files.
[16:08] <LjL> Pici: i don't remember if you have a symbian phone, but otherwise for others... mobile gmaps supports them too, it's not a very well known feature, but again you just type the url into the search box
[16:12] <Pici> LjL: Didn't work on the iPod touch google maps. 
[16:12] <LjL> Pici: you actually typed that url on the ipod "keyboard"?
[16:12] <LjL> Pici: i feel sorry for you
[16:12] <bazhang> heh
[16:13] <bazhang> feel and sorry seldom come from your keyboard LjL 
[16:13] <LjL> bazhang: you have a point about that
[16:13] <LjL> Pici: scrap what i said
[16:13] <LjL> Pici: i pity you, fool
[16:13] <bazhang> haha
[16:42] <bazhang> * [KST_] (n=KST_KST_@220.116.107.90): CM bot  <---something to be concerned about ?
[16:43] <bazhang> * [Arin] (n=KST_Arin@121.132.145.50): CM bot
[16:43] <ikonia> nice bazhang 
[16:44] <ikonia> bazhang: got a test for it, hang on
[16:44] <bazhang> ikonia, k
[16:45] <ikonia> failed
[16:48] <LjL> want some smashed food? http://tv.repubblica.it/copertina/terremoto-le-prime-immagini/27625?video
[16:49] <ikonia> why not
[16:49] <bazhang> haha
[16:49] <bazhang> nice link LjL 
[16:53] <LjL> i think i *would* be slightly scared if i had been in that supermarket
[16:53] <bazhang> check out -ot
[17:09] <bazhang> netyire has a twin
[17:26] <bazhang> * [shaullxBot] (i=aaa@77.127.95.136): I'm a C# irc bot
[17:27] <LjL> bazhang: shaul is probably the owner
[17:27] <bazhang> LjL, that struck me as likely
[17:27] <bazhang> it quit already though
[18:42] <Gary> is brainac0cult trying to bait?
[18:42] <Pici> Gary: I'm not sure.  I'm ignoring it until he actually does something worthy of response.
[18:44] <hischild> the !replicate factoid seems to be wrong. it isn't working as aptitude doesn't recognize commands. 
[18:44] <hischild> !clone
[18:44] <hischild> that factoid, not the !replicate one.
[18:45] <Pici> hischild: On what version of Ubuntu?
[18:45] <hischild> Intrepid atm
[18:46] <hischild> the manpage doesn't even speak of any disable options.
[18:46] <Pici> hm
[18:47] <Flannel> What happened/what was wrong with the apt-get one?
[18:47] <Flannel> hmmm, the dpkg one?
[18:47] <stdin> dpkg --get-selections
[18:47] <Flannel> yeah, the dpkg one.
[18:48] <Pici> Because there was an issue with those packages not getting marked properly and apt-get/aptitude thinking that they could be autoremoved iird.
[18:48] <Pici> s/iird/iirc/
[18:48] <hischild> I have no idea, i just noticed that this one isn't working. Need to create a dualboot again and would like to keep my current package selection.
[18:49] <Flannel> Maybe aptitude, apt-get shouldn't do that, since it, as I understand it, calculates autoremove stuff based on the current state
[18:49] <Flannel> (not based on what it has/hasn't installed)
[18:50] <Flannel> I believe that's always been an issue if you use aptitude with other frontends.  It's 'benefits' are only benefits if you strictly use aptitude.
[18:51] <Flannel> mind you, I haven't touched aptitude in forever, so that may be incorrect
[18:51] <hischild> Flannel, from what i've heard, that's true. I've been using aptitude so far, all has went well.
[18:52] <Pici> Looks like that option is only valid in aptitude >= 0.4.11.4 And we don't meet that in Intrepid.
[18:52] <Flannel> Pici: Or any other supported version? ;)
[18:52] <Pici> Flannel: Does Jaunty count?
[18:52] <hischild> Pici, how come that it is in there? I don't assume it's been downgraded some time. 
[18:52] <Flannel> Pici: the S word means no
[18:53] <Pici> !-clone
[18:53] <Flannel> To replicate your packages selection on another machine (or restore it if re-installing), you can type « dpkg --get-selections > ~/my-packages », move the file "my-packages" to the other machine, and there type « sudo dpkg --set-selections < my-packages && apt-get dselect-upgrade » - See also !automate
[18:53] <Flannel> that's the old one
[18:53] <Pici> LjL: Around?
[18:55] <Flannel> hischild: I suggest you don't use aptitude, personally.  If you ever want to use synaptic (or maybe even tasksel?) aptitude will throw a fit.  It's like a jealous lover, who doesn't understand you can have other friends.
[18:55]  * Flannel will stick with car analogies in the future.
[18:56] <hischild> Flannel, hmm aight. Yes, the car analogies would be better, but you couldn't have known. 
[18:56] <hischild> anyway, the dpkg --get-selections will do?
[18:56] <Flannel> It should.  Yeah.  Let us know if apt-get autoremove (try with -s) tries to remove everything afterwards
[18:57] <Flannel> Then we'll know if we need to figure out if that command is problematic
[18:57] <stdin> I guess you could replace "aptitude --disable-columns --display-format '%p' search '?installed!?automatic'" with "dpkg --get-selections | grep -v 'deinstall$' | awk '{print $1}'" to get the same format aptitude expects in the second command
[18:58] <hischild> Wait, just a second.
[18:58] <hischild> Could you repeat that? 
[18:59] <stdin> dpkg --get-selections | grep -v 'deinstall$' | awk '{print $1}'
[19:00] <stdin> that's if --disable-columns is actually needed at all
[19:00]  * Flannel would just as soon not endorse aptitude.  Although I guess if they use aptitude for that, apt-get won't complain either.
[19:00] <Pici> I personally only use aptitude for searching, I'm too lazy to remember the apt-get arguments.
[19:00] <LjL> Pici: yes
[19:00] <Flannel> apt-cache search?
[19:00] <Pici> LjL: We're discussing the !cloning factoid. 
[19:01] <Pici> LjL: re: aptitude vs. dpkg --set/get-selections
[19:02] <LjL> Flannel, apt-get can't do anything more than aptitude does for calculating what's "auto" removed
[19:02] <Pici> LjL: I just thought that you may remember the rational since you were the last one to edit the factoid,.
[19:02] <hischild> wait now i'm totally at a loss here. Situation is that i would like to keep my set of packages, and the !cloning factoid doesn't work. So, what should be replaced with what? And yes, i'm willing to try more then just one method.
[19:02] <LjL> if there's no information as to whether something was installed by the user or automatically, it can't get it out of some hat any more than aptitude can
[19:02] <Flannel> LjL: apt-get calculates it, aptitude stores state based on what aptitude has done (at least partially), and from my experience, gets overzealous if you install stuff outside of aptitude
[19:03] <LjL> wait a moment, aptitude doesn't have a --disable-column option to begin with
[19:03] <hischild> Flannel, automatic removing of packages becomes troublesome if installed outside of aptitude.
[19:03] <Flannel> apt-get may remove with just as much zeal, I don't have any personal experience with it
[19:03] <LjL> where did i make that up from
[19:03] <LjL> oh. it does on Debian testing.
[19:04] <LjL> that must be where i got it from.
[19:04]  * Flannel reminds LjL that #ubuntu is not #debian
[19:04]  * Flannel hides.
[19:04] <LjL> meh, ubuntu's aptitude fails to parse the whole thing too
[19:04] <hischild> LjL, it should have it on the next minor version.
[19:05] <Flannel> hischild: Go ahead and try the old method (dpkg) and then do sudo apt-get -s autoremove (-s is for simulate), and see if it tries to remove anything it ought not to
[19:05] <LjL> Flannel: it won't do that... rather, it will not remove anything at all
[19:05] <Flannel> hischild: Jaunty will have it then, but none of the other supported versions will.
[19:05] <hischild> Flannel, i'm going to try it now. Could you please give me the old method again? 
[19:05] <Flannel> LjL: As its supposed to
[19:05] <LjL> Flannel: but also as people wouldn't want
[19:05] <Flannel> LjL: The issue (from what was said up there) is that after using dpkg --set-selections, autoremove/aptitude's remove thing, gets overzealous
[19:06] <Flannel> Why not?
[19:06] <LjL> Flannel: i don't think that's currently an issue
[19:06] <Flannel> LjL: Then why was the factoid changed in the first place?
[19:06] <LjL> Flannel: *maybe* older aptitudes removed stuff like that, but i definitely couldn't reproduce it here
[19:06] <LjL> Flannel: because if i'm cloning my packages, i also do want to carry over the information on what was installed manually, and what was not
[19:07] <LjL> Flannel: using the dpkg method, apt-get's *and* aptitude's autoremove feature will just fail to work for all the packages that got selected, forever
[19:07] <Flannel> Where does apt-get store its state for that stuff then?
[19:07] <hischild> LjL, but if i'm cloning, wouldn't it only have to get the installed packages as the rest gets installed automatically?
[19:08] <LjL> Flannel: i don't know, but not in "status".
[19:08]  * Flannel really ought to upgrade to Hardy and get some first hand experience.
[19:08] <LjL> hischild: not following you. what "rest"?
[19:08] <Flannel> I know aptitude stores extra crap, which causes it to not play nice.  but I wasn't aware apt-get did.  I thougt it used the same method as debfoster/deborphan
[19:08] <hischild> LjL, any packages the ones installed depend on.
[19:08] <LjL> Flannel: not really
[19:09] <LjL> hischild: err, if there are packages that the ones installed depend on... then by definition, those will *also* *already* be installed, no?
[19:09] <stdin> copy over /var/lib/apt/extended_states and /var/lib/aptitude/pkgstates ?
[19:09] <LjL> you can't have a package installed without having its dependencies installed too
[19:09] <Flannel> hischild: The issue isn't actual depndencies getting installed.  It's removing dependencies when theyre no longer needed
[19:09] <LjL> (unless you override stuff in very ugly ways)
[19:10] <hischild> LjL, If i'm cloning i only need the packages i installed manually, as when i update it should get the dependencies. Am i right in thinking this way?
[19:10] <LjL> hischild: yes, that's correct (but different from what you said earlier)
[19:10] <stdin> what one really needs, is a tool that copies all the dpkg/apt/aptitude state/config
[19:10] <LjL> hischild: problem is - how do you make it only output the ones you installed manually?
[19:10] <LjL> the only answer i know of is, using aptitude
[19:10] <LjL> which is what i put in the factoid
[19:10] <hischild> LjL, i guess that is true. 
[19:10] <LjL> but then it doesn't work with anything but testing's version of aptitude
[19:11] <hischild> Flannel, could you please give the "old" method of cloning again? 
[19:11] <LjL> at least the syntax i used doesn't
[19:11] <LjL> hischild, it's just dpkg --get-selections and dpkg --set-selections
[19:11] <Flannel> hischild: To replicate your packages selection on another machine (or restore it if re-installing), you can type « dpkg --get-selections > ~/my-packages », move the file "my-packages" to the other machine, and there type « sudo dpkg --set-selections < my-packages && apt-get dselect-upgrade » - See also !automate
[19:11] <hischild> Are there any other methods that need testing on it? If so, now's the time to tell.
[19:11] <LjL> i don't know where to find aptitude's manual for version 0.4.9 (the one in hardy), so i don't know how to fix the syntax
[19:12] <stdin> isn't there manpages.u.c ?
[19:12] <LjL> stdin: i don't mean the manpage, i mean the actual aptitude manual
[19:12] <LjL> stdin: the manpage is short, doesn't have the search patterns
[19:13] <LjL> this manual aptitude --disable-columns --display-format '%p' search '?installed!?automatic' 
[19:13] <LjL> meh
[19:13] <LjL> this manual http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/
[19:13] <LjL> specifically, this part http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s03s05.html
[19:14] <LjL> uhm, actually i don't need the manual...
[19:14] <LjL> ~i!~M works (which is the short version of ?installed!?manual)
[19:14] <ubot3> LjL: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[19:14] <LjL> i guess the long versions were introduced only later...
[19:14] <stdin> would it be in the aptitude-doc-* packages?
[19:14] <LjL> but then someone - myrtti possibly - complained that ~i!~M was undecipherable, which is why i used the long version to begin with
[19:15] <LjL> most likely
[19:32] <hischild> So you want confirmation that the command does it's job, or shall i leave?
[19:50] <Pici> Meh. Busy #ubuntu today.
[19:51] <hischild> Pici, really? Didn't seem that busy the times i looked. 
[19:52] <Pici> hischild: I think its only busy when I'm looking at it.
[19:52] <hischild> Pici, don't look at it then, i'll just keep looking ... should be quiet all evening then
[20:06] <Pici> ooh. ubottu.com
[20:16] <jussi01> Pici: :D
[20:17] <jussi01> Pici: I bought it about a month back, but only just got around to directing it to the server and getting stdin to sort it :)
[20:18] <Pici> jussi01: Neat :)
[23:10] <bluesmoke> does cattle-rancher seem like a troll or is it just me?
[23:11] <ikonia> bluesmoke: he was in the other day as cattle-sex or something like that and was a pain
[23:11] <ikonia> bazhang sorted him