[00:29] <ronny> does the launchpad ppa support dput scp mode?
[00:32] <jamesh> ronny: I don't think so.
[00:33] <ronny> any particular reason? (given that stuff like ssh push via bzr is supported)
[00:33] <jamesh> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA only mentions ftp uploads
[00:33] <jamesh> because it hasn't been implemented yet
[00:33] <ronny> hmm, i wish debian packaging was more simple
[00:34] <jamesh> ronny: note that source package uploads need to be signed with your PGP key, so you shouldn't have to worry about man-in-the-middle tampering
[00:34] <ronny> yeah
[00:35] <ronny> hmm
[00:40] <wgrant> We don't make packaging more difficult than it needs to be.
[00:40] <jamesh> doing a debian package from scratch seems a lot more difficult than an RPM package
[00:40] <ronny> im used to packaging under gentoo, its more difficult
[00:41] <ronny> (with deb packages)
[00:41] <jamesh> there are many more choices in how to do things for debian packages
[00:41] <jamesh> in areas I just don't care about
[00:42] <ronny> all i want to say is "use distutils for building", "version=xyz", "deps=...","optional deops=...",
[00:44] <ronny> right now i have a debian dir with 7 files, im confused and tired of the crap
[00:44] <jamesh> cdbs can make things fairly simple for things like that
[00:45] <ronny> then i clearly missed something
[00:47] <ronny> ok, that makes the rules file more easy
[00:47] <ronny> nothing about all the others
[08:55] <zwnj> can i subscribe to launchpad-users mailing-list in digest mode?
[08:56] <zwnj> i couldn't find any option other than "unsubscribe" in the overview page of the group
[11:11] <qball> any plans on supporting git in launchpad code?
[11:13] <Yaron-Ubuntu> the source code should be available by the end of the year
[11:13] <RAOF> You mean git-imports or hosting git repositories?
[11:13] <qball> RAOF: yes, sorry for being vague
[11:15] <RAOF> qball: Sadly, 'yes' isn't a useful answer to the question.  You're after (a) native git reposiotry hosting?  or (b) Having external git repositories mirrored in bzr on launchpad?
[11:15] <qball> (b)
[11:16] <RAOF> I believe the answer to that, is 'yes'.
[11:16] <qball> aah cool.. is there a eta
[11:16] <RAOF> But I can't think of a supporting reference to that offhand, so take it with a grain of salt.
[11:17] <Yaron-Ubuntu> I have a question, is it ok?
[11:18] <Yaron-Ubuntu> as an active member of the Israeli Hebrew team...
[11:18] <qball> I am not constantly downloading the latest translations, and uploading them if there is either a change or just to get the "newly translated in launchpad" updated.. if my code is in "code" that is fixed right? it will pull directly from code?
[11:29] <LarstiQ> Yaron-Ubuntu: in general, it's a bad idea to ask if you can ask. Just ask the question and someone may answer.
[11:29] <Yaron-Ubuntu> thanks...
[11:29] <Yaron-Ubuntu> We have some general problem regarding the system
[11:30] <Yaron-Ubuntu> we mustn't translate all the console apps
[11:30] <Yaron-Ubuntu> its a community decision, so we need a sign or some sort of warning before trying to edit a console app
[11:31] <Yaron-Ubuntu> and an option to copy all the original strings to the translated strings so it will be completely "translated"
[11:31] <wgrant> That sounds like a very bad idea to me.
[11:31] <wgrant> particularly that last bit.
[11:31] <Yaron-Ubuntu> why?
[11:31] <wgrant> Why should console apps be discriminated against?
[11:31] <Yaron-Ubuntu> There many issues with Hebrew in console
[11:32] <wgrant> Ah, true.
[11:32] <Yaron-Ubuntu> Because Hebrew is a semitic language and it is RTL written
[11:32] <wgrant> Yep.
[11:32] <wgrant> Hmm.
[11:33] <Yaron-Ubuntu> Do you think its practical?
[11:33] <Yaron-Ubuntu> We actually tranlated dpkg partially, it looks awefull...
[11:33] <wgrant> That'd be a question for some translations person, and I'm not one of them, and I don't think there are any around, nor is there likely to be for a few days.
[11:33] <Yaron-Ubuntu> that sucks...
[11:34] <wgrant> It is rather close to Christmas/New Year.
[11:34] <wgrant> So lots of people are on leave.
[11:34] <wgrant> But some might not be. I don't know.
[11:34] <Yaron-Ubuntu> I see... Its Channukah nowasays...
[11:34] <Yaron-Ubuntu> For some its Chrismukkah...
[11:35] <LarstiQ> what makes translated dpkg awful, no RTL support?
[11:35] <Yaron-Ubuntu> the console screen while openning details
[11:36] <Yaron-Ubuntu> although the console window in dpkg should be rtl enabled...
[11:37] <Yaron-Ubuntu> dpkg has this console window that shows the progress in details, this screen should be RTL enabled except that nobody reported about it...
[11:38] <wgrant> dpkg or Synaptic?
[11:38] <Yaron-Ubuntu> Hmmmm Synaptic shows all the available packages if im not wrong...
[11:39] <Yaron-Ubuntu> the installation of the packages is done via dpkg after you select them in Synaptic (im not a pro yet so its a tough guess)
[11:39] <wgrant> The graphical window with the shell in it is still part of Synaptic.
[11:39] <wgrant> dpkg's output is shown in there.
[11:40] <Yaron-Ubuntu> Thanks for clarifying...
[11:40] <Yaron-Ubuntu> So the dpkg window inside Synaptic should be rtl aligned and Hebrew enabled...
[11:40] <Yaron-Ubuntu> but that makes another problem
[11:41] <Yaron-Ubuntu> using dpkg outside synaptic will show unreadable and flipped messages
[11:41] <wgrant> Yes, that is slightly problematic.
[11:41] <Yaron-Ubuntu> so either way dpkg should not be translated
[11:42] <wgrant> But this is nothing Ubuntu-specific; how do other people do this?
[11:42] <Yaron-Ubuntu> dpkg is not translated in Debian as well (we have a few project managers)
[11:44] <Yaron-Ubuntu> Each operating system and windows manager has its own translators and manager so the apps are not coordinated, meaning that a system wide decision made in Debian is not applied on Ubuntu and vice versa
[11:45] <Yaron-Ubuntu> Thats an issue we are pretty close to solve (Translators community)
[11:45] <danilos> Yaron-Ubuntu: you should not let people in the Ubuntu Hebrew translation team who are not aware of the policy of no-translating console apps
[11:46] <danilos> Yaron-Ubuntu: Launchpad cannot manage these policies for you in so many detail, it's up to you Hebrew team owners to force it
[11:46] <Yaron-Ubuntu> As one of the most active members I must tell you that im not aware of the console apps myself, there too many console messages, we can't remember each and every one of them...
[11:47] <Yaron-Ubuntu> I can tell between documentation and an app, I can't tell between console app and GUI app...
[11:48] <Yaron-Ubuntu> Some of them are not even installed on my system...
[11:48] <LarstiQ> It seems to me you'd know more context about what you're translating?
[11:50] <Yaron-Ubuntu> Its not that obvious... sometimes we can tell what we are translating and sometimes we can't, my work computer has XP in it and I use it to translated sometimes, I have no clue about what im translating...
[11:50] <LarstiQ> hmkay, I am not a translator, but that does not seem good practice to me.
[11:51] <LarstiQ> how can you know your translations are correct in the context they will be used?
[11:51] <LarstiQ> Or is that left up to feedback from users?
[11:51] <Yaron-Ubuntu> Some left to the users and some are checked by the team...
[11:52] <Yaron-Ubuntu> Just so you'll get a notion of what is going on, we are only 2 active translators and there are some translators that work from time to time...
[11:53] <Yaron-Ubuntu> most of us are not working on Ubuntu anymore because we sick of losing our translations every time Ubuntu has a new version...
[11:54] <LarstiQ> aha, you are short on manpower, I see.
[11:54] <Yaron-Ubuntu> real short...
[11:54] <Yaron-Ubuntu> We have a systemwide decision not to translate KDE, Compiz, Beryl and OpenOffice because our changes are mostly lost...
[11:55] <Yaron-Ubuntu> OpenOffice is translated by a private company that was hired by the ministry of finance of the Israeli goverment...
[11:56] <Yaron-Ubuntu> KDE translators are translating upstream so they won't join us
[11:56] <Yaron-Ubuntu> Compiz and Beryl have their own translator
[11:57] <Yaron-Ubuntu> Gnome is the only thing translated with the system
[11:57] <Yaron-Ubuntu> Inkscape - Maintained by me
[11:58] <Yaron-Ubuntu> There are many others that we just don't touch at all because we don't want our changes to be lost
[12:01]  * LarstiQ nods
[12:01]  * Yaron-Ubuntu as well
[16:06] <nieva> help
[17:10] <mdz> BjornT: are you around?
[17:19] <mdz> anyone around who can help me find out why the cloakroom doesn't seem to be working?
[17:19] <mdz> NotFound: Object: <zope.app.publisher.browser.viewmeta.FileBugGuidedView object at 0x2aaaad5844d0>, name: u'st25U5bfmLnFGQLjVv8VJiOnE8s'<br />
[17:19] <mdz> etc.
[21:25] <dash> howdy. trying to set up my PPA for the first time; uploading a package, I get a "Rejected: Unable to find distroseries: unstable" email
[21:26] <dash> I assume that's because the changelog line is "ecru (0.2.0-1) unstable; urgency=low"
[21:26] <dash> if it's not supposed to be 'unstable', what's it supposed to be?-)
[21:26] <dash> 'hardy', i guess?
[22:18] <cprov> dash: yes, one of the supported ubuntu series
[22:18] <cprov> dash: check http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
[22:19] <dash> OK
[22:20] <cprov> dash: you know you can override the changelog series target by uploading the source to a different path, right ?
[22:21] <cprov> dash: create a new dput.cf target with incoming = ~dash/ubuntu/hardy for uploading pristine debian sources to hardy, for instance.
[22:21] <dash> hm! ok
[22:22] <dash> well, this is my code, and I just wrote debian package bits for it :)
[22:22] <cprov> dash: it helps if you are just building a bunch of debian sources w/o any changes.
[22:22] <dash> right
[22:23] <dash> which is essentially what i'm doing
[22:23] <cprov> dash: cool
[22:24] <cprov> dash: you may benefit of creating a single changelog entry (for debian) and then upload it to hardy in your PPA, wait it to build and then copy source & binaries to the newer series (intrepid and jaunty).
[22:25] <dash> right, that was my plan
[22:25] <cprov> dash: it's a easy way to do less work and get a broader audience.
[22:26] <cprov> dash: note that you have to copy hardy's binaries to the newer ubuntu series, you can't rebuild the source.
[22:26] <dash> yep. this is just a cunning plan to get rid of my (ubuntu-using) friends' excuses for not trying my software.
[22:26] <dash> cprov: Huh.
[22:27] <dash> that seems slightly odd
[22:27] <cprov> dash: yes, first because you probably don't need to (unless you know you do) and secondly because of the pool/ repository topology
[22:28] <cprov> dash: rebuilds of the same source would result in binaries with the same version but different contexts (which would cause conflicts in disk)
[22:28] <dash> ah.
[22:28] <dash> of course, they're pooled.
[22:29] <cprov> dash: it's worth saying the the vast majority of binaries from hardy still working fine in jaunty (which keeps toolchain backward compatibility)
[22:30] <dash> right
[22:30] <dash> yeah, my dependencies aren't anything exotic
[22:30] <dash> gmp, libgc, glib, python
[22:30] <cprov> dash: there are very feel cases where you would actually need a rebuild, for that you have to upload a new source version
[22:30] <cprov> dash: great, that should be fine
[22:31] <cprov> dash: I vaguely remember of some perl libraries that were drastically modified.
[22:31] <cprov> okay, now I have to go ...
[22:32] <cprov> dash: file a question in soyuz if you have any problems with your uploads or if you have suggestions.
[22:32] <cprov> dash: good luck with LP PPAs and thanks for using it.
[22:33] <cprov-out> good night, guys!
[22:33] <wgrant> Night cprov-out.
[22:35] <dash> cprov-out: thanks for the help :)