[04:09] <seele> was there a kmail update recently?
[04:15] <crimsun> 4:4.1.80-0ubuntu3 Superseded in jaunty-release on 2008-12-16 by 4:4.1.85-0ubuntu1
[04:19] <ScottK> seele: Do you get the usability theory behind this notifications thing sadbfl wants us to do?
[04:20] <seele> ScottK: i haven't read his article but i've talked to him and other UX people about it.  notifications for only ephemeral information makes sense
[04:21] <seele> the problem is pushing the responsibility of actionable information on applications and relying on them handling it in a sane way
[04:22] <ScottK> I can understand not requiring interaction.
[04:22] <ScottK> It's the not allowing it that seems to me to be madness.
[04:22] <crimsun> are ephemeral notifications really useful, though? do you really want to know that a cd-rom was just plugged in via an intrusive bubble?
[04:22] <seele> GODDAMNIT KMAIL CRASHED AGAIN
[04:22] <seele> excuse me
[04:22]  * seele sighs
[04:22] <ScottK> crimsun: There's that too.
[04:23] <seele> i imagine the level of notification can be configured
[04:23] <ScottK> My cel phone beeps whenever it finds/loses the network.  As a result, I leave the sound off.
[04:23] <crimsun> i would hope so, but deciding what's sane would be a major point of contention in my book. perhaps most everyone else thinks differently.
[04:24] <seele> yeah.. thats where the "user research" and "design" part comes in :P
[04:24] <ScottK> seele: it seems counter-intuitive to me that if a notification pops up and I want to deal with it, that I can't click on it and get taken to whatever it's about.
[04:25] <seele> ScottK: then the wrong type of information is being sent as a notification.  if it is something that is likely actionable it should be handled otherwise
[04:25] <seele> part of the problem is the existing system doesnt work with the new desig model so lots of people are confused how it will work
[04:25] <seele> in theory it's a sound design.  there just isn't a PoC yet to make everyone feel at ease about it
[04:25] <ScottK> Then I'm not sure I understand what a notification would be.
[04:27]  * ScottK goes and looks at the video again.
[04:27] <seele> the other problem with the design is that they expect the defaults to work for all users and all use cases
[04:27] <seele> which different users use their computer differently so their notification needs will obviously be different
[04:28] <seele> if you get hundreds of emails a day, you probably don't want notifications that a new email has arrived.  but you might want to know when a coworker emails you vs. when you get a mailing list message
[04:28] <ScottK> In there sample video they use IM messages as an example.  I definitely might want to interact with those.
[04:28] <seele> some users might not care when a friend is online via chat or not, but a college student might, etc.
[04:29] <seele> the thing about the notifications is they don't last long, so by the time you notice the bubble and read it, it will be gone
[04:29] <ScottK> seele: Were there really UDS sessions on this?
[04:29] <seele> their solution is that when the bubble dissappears, it goes in to the IM clicky thing.  You clicky the thing and you get your message
[04:30] <seele> ScottK: no, these were mostly side discussions.  a community problem with this design proposal was the way they unveiled it :P
[04:30] <ScottK> OK.  Well sabdfl's blog post led me to a different conclusion.
[04:30] <seele> but back to the IM thing.  so you see the bubble disappear in to X and so you go and click on X because that is the last location you saw the bubble go to
[04:31] <seele> oh well maybe i misunderstood it and filled in the design gaps with my own ideas
[04:31] <seele> like i said, i didn't read it yet, ive only talked about it with some of the design people
[04:31] <nosrednaekim> as a humble user, I generally dislike notifications, unless they are for a fairly rare occurance, or to differentiate an every-day event from an important one
[04:31] <ScottK> That might at least make sense.  His blog post explicitly says no clicking to followup.
[04:31] <seele> wait, what don't you understand?  about the bubble disappearing in to the chat button thing?
[04:31] <seele> no.. not clicking the bubble
[04:31] <seele> you click the chat icon in the panel thing
[04:32] <ScottK> seele: I understand what you are saying, I'm just not sure it's consistent with what he said.
[04:32] <nosrednaekim> that somewhat makes sense... but why not just flash the IM system tray icon?
[04:33] <ScottK> As long as it comes with a disable option, it's not such a big deal.  My reaction was pretty much along the lines of what I read in asiego's blog.
[04:33] <seele> nosrednaekim: the example is in gnome, not kde.  they are trying to get rid of system tray icons and only use icons in the tray when they mean something
[04:33] <nosrednaekim> yech
[04:33] <nosrednaekim> I don't like that idea
[04:33] <ScottK> Stick with KDE then.
[04:33] <seele> ScottK: yes, the new fdo spec they are working on should support that
[04:33] <nosrednaekim> :P
[04:33] <crimsun> i really abhor notifications
[04:34] <ScottK> Actually quassel is a good example of it almost done right.
[04:34] <ScottK> I get a nice ephemeral pop-up that I can dismiss early if I want to when I get highlighted.
[04:34] <nosrednaekim> ScottK: agreed, I appreciate those notifications
[04:35] <ScottK> This is goo.  What I really want then is the ability to click on it and go to the IRC channel in question.
[04:35] <ScottK> seele: ^^^ Perhaps something for your review if you haven't turned it in already?
[04:35] <ScottK> goo/good.
[04:36] <seele> i didnt cover that in my review.. it's already like 80 slides
[04:36] <ScottK> OK.  One more for me please (especially since it relates to the notification thingy)
[04:36] <ScottK> ?
[04:37] <seele> it's not really *my* review anymore if people start asking me to put stuff in it
[04:37] <ScottK> Only put it in if you agree.
[05:08] <nixternal> seele: could you also add a notification when it is time to get my popcorn out of the microwave too please? :p
[05:08]  * nixternal runs and hides
[05:09] <nixternal> how do you like that, we went from 2.5 feet of snow, and negative zero temps, to tornado watch and severe storms with 61+ degree weather today
[05:09] <nixternal> god I love Chicago
[05:09] <nhandler> I didn't hear about the tornado watch nixternal
[05:09] <nixternal> ya, it was all day, they canceled it earlier though
[05:10] <nosrednaekim> hah.... global warming ;)
[05:10] <nixternal> just for one day? I don't fall for that
[05:10] <nhandler> You also can't forget about the flood warnings
[05:10] <nixternal> ya, but they aren't as bad as they thought they would be at least
[05:11] <nixternal> if anything, chicago has had global cooling, and extreme global cooling
[05:11] <nosrednaekim> isn't it just that the lakes are getting warmer and evaporating more?
[05:11]  * nosrednaekim stops playing the devil's advocate
[05:11] <nixternal> hehe
[05:12] <nixternal> this year wass the first time in a long time where the harbors actually froze over in lake michigan here
[05:12] <nosrednaekim> scrap that theory <_<
[05:12] <nixternal> hehe
[05:13] <nixternal> but we had a couple of weeks there where the temps were brutally cold
[05:15] <nosrednaekim> so where was the UDS a couple weeks ago? please don't tell me NYC
[05:15] <nixternal> california
[05:15] <nixternal> google once again
[05:15] <nixternal> it was nice and warm there :)
[05:16] <nosrednaekim> whew :P if it was google-NYC I would have been mad, thats about a 15 minute train ride from school
[05:16] <nixternal> hehe
[05:16] <nixternal> google-nyc doesn't have google burritos, so I wouldn't have gone :p
[05:16] <nosrednaekim> haha
[05:17] <nixternal> though I think an east coast event would have been better as it would have shaved about 8 hours off of most people's travel
[05:18]  * nosrednaekim hopes for NYC next year (and a less busy school schedule)
[05:18] <nixternal> actually, someone (me) brought up austin texas for the next one...maybe at dell :)
[05:19] <nosrednaekim> that'd be a nice change
[05:21]  * ScottK ponders * Switch from cdbs to dephelper for debian/rules because cdbs just got too complicated.
[05:21] <nixternal> ScottK: how so?
[05:22] <ScottK> In this particular case a have a python package with a docs package and cdbs is convinced it needs setup.py for the docs package.
[05:22] <nixternal> haha, nice
[10:38] <Mez> nixternal: the concept of bitlbee scares me. I think I'm sticking to pidgin for now, it fits my workflow better :D
[15:30] <Tm_T> interesting
[15:31] <Tm_T> it took 5 hours to compile Qt just to find out I get some linking error, but no proper information what it was
[15:50] <Riddell> Qt is a beast like that, and with qmake it's hard to compile only a small part of it
[17:33] <patxi> hi everybody
[17:35] <Riddell> hi patxi
[18:00] <patxi> errrr... can anybody help me with connecting signal-slots in pyqt-pykde?
[18:09] <stdin> patxi: what's the problem?
[18:09] <patxi> oh
[18:10] <patxi> I'm practicing with the webkit widget example in techbase
[18:11] <patxi> and I want refresh addressBar QLineEdit with a link is clicked
[18:11] <patxi> with the link address
[18:11] <patxi> i connect signal and slot
[18:12] <patxi> QObject.connect(self.web, SIGNAL("linkClicked(QUrl)"), self.refreshUrl)
[18:12] <patxi> and slot method
[18:12] <patxi> def refreshUrl(self, nuevaUrl):
[18:12] <patxi> self.addressBar.setText(nuevaUrl().url().toString())
[18:12] <patxi> do nothing xD
[18:13] <patxi> is it well coded?
[18:13] <stdin> you're using the static QObject.connect method, use the member one
[18:13] <stdin> self.connect(self.web, SIGNAL("linkClicked(QUrl)"), self.refreshUrl)
[18:14] <stdin> or you need to add self after the signal
[18:15] <patxi> ahm, thank you
[18:15] <patxi> I'll probe now
[19:57] <NCommander> Riddell, and/or ScottK: anyone in the mood to sponsor?
[20:30] <nixternal> NCommander: what do you need sponsored?
[20:37] <NCommander> nixternal, kdegraphics
[20:37] <nixternal> link me homeskillet
[20:37] <nixternal> is it loaded with crack?
[20:38] <nixternal> that is the question used to ask me a couple of years back
[20:38] <nixternal> Hobbsee used to ask me that question I mean
[20:38] <NCommander> if by patches for it to build on ARM
[20:38] <NCommander> than no
[20:38] <nixternal> woo arm, build it for the leg too
[20:38]  * NCommander whacks nixternal 
[22:27] <jussi01> seele: PING. just a quick follow up on the quassel evalution and recomendations? the lads are keen to get things happening
[22:29] <seele> jussi01: yes i finished it but didn't get a chance to publish it before christmas.. i'll probably link it tonight or tomorrow.
[22:29] <Sput> ah thanks, good to know, I thought I maybe missed it due to our recent server hickups :)
[22:29] <Sput> take your time and don't get stressed out :)
[22:30] <jussi01> seele: excellent :)