| stgraber | LaserJock: around ? | 02:51 |
|---|---|---|
| LaserJock | stgraber: a bit yeah | 02:54 |
| stgraber | LaserJock: Do you have time for a quick ldm upload ? :) | 02:55 |
| LaserJock | stgraber: sure | 02:56 |
| stgraber | good, let me upload that somewhere you can get it | 02:57 |
| stgraber | doh, I really need to make the themes a different source package, 1.8MB for a .diff.gz is just stupid | 02:58 |
| stgraber | the .diff.gz is 5 times bigger than .orig.tar.gz ... | 02:59 |
| stgraber | LaserJock: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/ltsp/ | 03:00 |
| LaserJock | stgraber: done | 03:08 |
| stgraber | LaserJock: thanks | 03:08 |
| Ahmuck | nubae: good day | 04:49 |
| StickManBob | !ops | 09:49 |
| ubottu | Help! ogra, highvoltage, mhz, JaneW, Burgundavia or Seveas | 09:49 |
| StickManBob | !ops | 09:49 |
| StickManBob | !ops | 09:49 |
| StickManBob | !ops | 09:49 |
| StickManBob | !ops | Gay | 09:49 |
| ubottu | Gay: please see above | 09:49 |
| StickManBob | ubottu: Gay secks. | 09:49 |
| ubottu | Sorry, I don't know anything about Gay secks. | 09:49 |
| StickManBob | ubottu: Bull shit. | 09:50 |
| ubottu | Sorry, I don't know anything about Bull shit. | 09:50 |
| StickManBob | ubottu: !ops | 09:50 |
| ubottu | Help! ogra, highvoltage, mhz, JaneW, Burgundavia or Seveas | 09:50 |
| StickManBob | Sexy time! | 09:50 |
| StickManBob | jussi01: !ops! | 09:51 |
| StickManBob | !oos | 09:51 |
| ubottu | Sorry, I don't know anything about oos | 09:51 |
| StickManBob | !ops | 09:51 |
| ubottu | Help! ogra, highvoltage, mhz, JaneW, Burgundavia or Seveas | 09:51 |
| StickManBob | tehnser | 09:51 |
| StickManBob | h'rt | 09:51 |
| StickManBob | hdr | 09:51 |
| StickManBob | th | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | edt | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | jn | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | rtsj | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | es | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | js | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | ergj | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | dfj | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | sr | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | j | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | j | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | df | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | j | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | dtr | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | tjh | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | dr | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | j | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | dr | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | j | 09:52 |
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| StickManBob | jm | 09:52 |
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| StickManBob | j | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | drt | 09:52 |
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| StickManBob | j | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | dr | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | tjk | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | d | 09:52 |
| StickManBob | gj | 09:52 |
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| StickManBob | hnk | 09:53 |
| StickManBob | dr | 09:53 |
| StickManBob | gj | 09:53 |
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| StickManBob | jh | 09:53 |
| StickManBob | gfjse | 09:53 |
| joerg | hey | 14:37 |
| LaserJock | morning all | 18:12 |
| alkisg | Good morning LaserJock | 18:15 |
| LaserJock | alkisg: how's it going? | 18:21 |
| alkisg | I'm surviving... :) u? | 18:22 |
| LaserJock | same ;-) | 18:23 |
| LaserJock | getting back to work after holidays | 18:23 |
| alkisg | Still days off here... but much work to do nonetheless | 18:24 |
| === jussio1 is now known as jussi01 | ||
| LaserJock | nubae: you'll be happy to know I just closed all the thin-client-manager bugs | 19:53 |
| Ahmuck | LaserJock: let me open more :) | 19:57 |
| alkisg | Wow... does this still work in intrepid? :) | 19:57 |
| Ahmuck | LaserJock: we were chatting about somebody doing some python work on one of the management admin gui's? | 19:57 |
| LaserJock | were we? | 19:58 |
| * LaserJock has lost a lot of memory as well as hair during grad school | 19:59 | |
| alkisg | Ahmuck: like what? I've just started this: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/users-manager.png | 19:59 |
| Ahmuck | connected with sayboyon or p* something | 20:00 |
| alkisg | pessulus? | 20:00 |
| Ahmuck | and perhaps a admin gui to admin thin/fat clients iirc | 20:00 |
| LaserJock | alkisg: what does that do? | 20:00 |
| Ahmuck | let me dig through logs i suppose | 20:00 |
| LaserJock | ah, I think I remember more | 20:00 |
| LaserJock | I was talking about how sabayon is in bad shape | 20:01 |
| Ahmuck | is it fixable or needs to be re-written? | 20:01 |
| LaserJock | and so we were talking about generally user management in education | 20:01 |
| alkisg | LaserJock: it's supposed to enable the admin to select with the mouse a bunch of users and do something with them. Anything, from clearing the firefox cache to creating a link to the users' desktop | 20:01 |
| Ahmuck | alkisg: is that python/gtk? | 20:01 |
| alkisg | Yeap | 20:01 |
| Ahmuck | kewl | 20:01 |
| alkisg | Just learning the staff, but it's powerful enough | 20:01 |
| LaserJock | ok, we sort of need gather these projects together a bit | 20:02 |
| Ahmuck | agreed | 20:02 |
| LaserJock | having 5 different, independent user management tools out there makes things difficult | 20:02 |
| Ahmuck | a edubuntu management interface would be nice. the individual that i was thinking of has done a major python/gtk app, however, i'm thinking he wants smaller parts | 20:02 |
| Ahmuck | is it possible to create a master with modules? | 20:03 |
| LaserJock | yeah, that's possible | 20:03 |
| Ahmuck | based on python/gtk. though i prefer qt | 20:03 |
| alkisg | python/gtk is good, it allows for easy user-modifications | 20:03 |
| LaserJock | is python, anything is possible ;-) | 20:03 |
| LaserJock | *it's | 20:03 |
| Ahmuck | i think that would be the better approach, then one could "plug-in" a module | 20:03 |
| alkisg | That's what "user scripts" menu is in my screenshot | 20:03 |
| Ahmuck | a user module, thin client module, fat client module, a self awareness of thin/fat client module, etc. | 20:04 |
| LaserJock | I think first we need a bit of a spec describing what tools exist, what functions they perform and what added functions are needed | 20:04 |
| alkisg | It's a pitty that users-admin isn't based on python/gtk, and isn't customizable | 20:04 |
| alkisg | ...and doesn't allow selecting multiple users, and doesn't allow scripting... :) | 20:04 |
| LaserJock | well, one *could* imagine patching users-admin to be perhaps more modular | 20:04 |
| alkisg | No, a different language should be used. C => python. | 20:05 |
| LaserJock | well, you can have users-admin in C and everything else in python | 20:05 |
| LaserJock | essentially something like having a users-admin portal execute python scripts/modules | 20:06 |
| Ahmuck | flexablity i think is important | 20:06 |
| Ahmuck | even if it means scraping the old stuff in favor for something new | 20:06 |
| Ahmuck | if it works | 20:07 |
| LaserJock | I seriously doubt Gnome is going to want to rewrite users-admin in python just so we can do some fun things :-) | 20:07 |
| Ahmuck | and a more unified interface | 20:07 |
| Ahmuck | *shrugs*, perhaps they'll adopt ours :) | 20:07 |
| LaserJock | they're sort of different problems, IMO | 20:07 |
| LaserJock | users-admin is really for managing single or few-user systems | 20:08 |
| LaserJock | we want a mass-user management tool that works well in LTSP environments, right? | 20:08 |
| alkisg | The kusers tool of KDE is pretty close to my users-manager, except that it doesn't allow for scripts to run | 20:09 |
| alkisg | I guess the gnome guys are just bored :) | 20:09 |
| LaserJock | so where does iTalic fit in with all this? | 20:10 |
| alkisg | italc is for the users currently logged on, users-admin or user-manager or kuser is for all the users | 20:11 |
| alkisg | So, not really related | 20:11 |
| LaserJock | ok, so iTalic gives you control over active thin clients | 20:11 |
| alkisg | Pesullus will be merged into sabayon, and sabayon is for forced/default settings | 20:12 |
| alkisg | So 3 different tools are needed | 20:12 |
| LaserJock | whereas we need an overall user management tool, correct? | 20:12 |
| LaserJock | alkisg: how do you know pessulus will be merged into sabayon? | 20:13 |
| alkisg | I've read about it in some developer log/list/something | 20:13 |
| LaserJock | since sabayon is essentially dead right now I'm curious if that is really going to happen, at least with the current status | 20:14 |
| LaserJock | ok, so I see 3 basic tasks that are needed: | 20:15 |
| LaserJock | 1) thin client management | 20:15 |
| LaserJock | 2) user management (adding/removing/LDAP, etc.) | 20:16 |
| LaserJock | 3) user settings management (lockdown, profile management, etc.) | 20:16 |
| LaserJock | does that seem right? | 20:16 |
| alkisg | LaserJock: http://live.gnome.org/Sabayon | 20:17 |
| alkisg | Integrating Pessulus into Sabayon | 20:17 |
| LaserJock | right, that's sort of oudated, though not exactly untrue | 20:17 |
| LaserJock | in the sense that Sabayon uses a copy of Pessulus within itself | 20:18 |
| LaserJock | but I don't know if the idea was to replace Pessulus and I'm sure right now can't as nobody has committed code to Sabayon is over 6 months | 20:18 |
| alkisg | I don't think Sabayon is what admins need... extending or replacing users-admin with a plugin system seems a better idea in my head. | 20:22 |
| alkisg | The end result I'd like is: select a group of users, and goto to scripts=>panels=>add the gnome-language-panel for them. Much more simple and targeted than sabayon | 20:23 |
| LaserJock | well, sabayon is useful for mass changes and for profile management | 20:24 |
| LaserJock | if you're just making a few small changes then it is overkill | 20:24 |
| alkisg | I can't see anything that can be done with sabayon that couldn't be done quicker/easier with an extended users-admin... | 20:25 |
| LaserJock | but users-admin doesn't do profiles | 20:25 |
| alkisg | That's the plugins/script part that's missing | 20:25 |
| LaserJock | well, then why not use sabayon? | 20:25 |
| alkisg | Because sabayon doesn't apply the changes to the users. It just creates the profile | 20:26 |
| alkisg | I can't clear the browser cache for 50 specific users with sabayon. | 20:26 |
| alkisg | I can't set the wallpaper for 50 specific users with sabayon. Etc etc | 20:26 |
| LaserJock | sure | 20:27 |
| LaserJock | that's why I'm saying there's a few different tasks | 20:27 |
| LaserJock | I think Sabayon is going to be one of the things we need | 20:27 |
| LaserJock | it's ~ 15k lines of code that we probably shouldn't just toss out the window | 20:27 |
| alkisg | Could you give me an example of what sabayon could do and an extended users-admin couldn't ? | 20:27 |
| LaserJock | what I'm saying is that those aren't mutually exclusive | 20:28 |
| LaserJock | have Sabayon be one of the modules in an extended users-admin tool | 20:28 |
| alkisg | LaserJock: the 3 tools I'm thinking are useful, are (1) thin client management = something like italc, (2) user management = an extended users-admin, (3) a lock down mechanism like a simpler gksu gconf-editor | 20:32 |
| LaserJock | right, 3 is pessulus really | 20:33 |
| alkisg | pessulus only has 5-10 settings, gconf-editor has thousands | 20:33 |
| alkisg | ...and the 3rd one could easily be integrated into the 2nd | 20:33 |
| LaserJock | 4) is profile management, i.e. sabayon which some might find useful | 20:33 |
| LaserJock | well sure, pessulus is limited | 20:33 |
| LaserJock | that's why people need to work on it :-) | 20:34 |
| LaserJock | it would be useful if Sabayon and Pessulus were combined in their code-base | 20:36 |
| LaserJock | I'm not sure what to think about extending users-admin | 20:37 |
| LaserJock | sort of a hackish thing to do would be to have users-admin look for Sabayon, etc. and present buttons to launch them | 20:37 |
| alkisg | I think users-admin has to be rewritten in pygtk for ubuntu, and maybe pyqt for kubuntu ;) | 20:40 |
| alkisg | (but kusers in kubuntu is good enough, it just needs to allow for user defined scripts) | 20:41 |
| Ahmuck | u need a machine lockdown, configurator as well | 20:42 |
| Ahmuck | i'd like to lock all cdroms of machines in classroom a, but not i b | 20:42 |
| alkisg | Yeah, a simpler gconf-editor | 20:42 |
| alkisg | (or a better pessulus) | 20:42 |
| Ahmuck | or add/remove clients and have a baseline for the boot up to decide if it should be a fat client or thin client | 20:43 |
| Ahmuck | another problem i ran into, is the thin client/fat client requires seperate maintence of software installation and update | 20:43 |
| alkisg | The problem with that is that the clients could be of different architectures | 20:44 |
| alkisg | So you could even have 2-3 different images, for i386, amd64, macs etc | 20:44 |
| alkisg | That's difficult... :( | 20:45 |
| LaserJock | well, I think it's useful to have an overall goal of where we want to head, but then break up things into smaller, doable chunks | 20:45 |
| LaserJock | i.e. what can we do for Jaunty? | 20:45 |
| LaserJock | nothing? :-) | 20:53 |
| alkisg | I don't know for Jaunty... :( ...but I'll have my users-manager ready in late summer! :P :D | 20:53 |
| LaserJock | well, perhaps if more people worked on it it could be ready for Jaunty or near there? | 20:54 |
| alkisg | Sure, but is anyone interested? | 20:57 |
| LaserJock | maybe | 20:57 |
| LaserJock | you could write an email to edubuntu-users/devel perhaps | 20:58 |
| LaserJock | it doesn't hurt to ask | 20:58 |
| alkisg | OK, I'll try... | 20:58 |
| Ahmuck | doesn't ltsp build a profile of each machine by mac address? | 20:58 |
| LaserJock | no | 20:58 |
| Ahmuck | so you would have an idea of what proc/mem was on the machine? | 20:58 |
| Ahmuck | ah | 20:59 |
| Ahmuck | it's not that smart? | 20:59 |
| LaserJock | or | 20:59 |
| LaserJock | I don't know actually | 20:59 |
| LaserJock | I think not but stgraber might now | 20:59 |
| Ahmuck | if you had a basic config file for each mac address in a list, then it would be easy to pick out what machines should be thin and which should be fat | 21:01 |
| LaserJock | yes | 21:01 |
| Ahmuck | part of my problem with fat client setup, is one literally has to hand edit machines for fat or thin client boot | 21:01 |
| Ahmuck | sorry, i think i'm thinking beyond the project atm | 21:02 |
| alkisg | Ahmuck: you could use the "like" stanza of lts.conf | 21:03 |
| stgraber | LaserJock: ouch, I just saw that you closed a handful of LTSP bugs too, looks like we'll soon get a clean LP :) | 21:07 |
| LaserJock | stgraber: working on it. Trying to get a more useful TODO list | 21:08 |
| LaserJock | we're down to 223 open bugs | 21:08 |
| LaserJock | man, there's just an incredible amount of work that could be done on user management | 21:10 |
| LaserJock | the users-admin upstream (gnome-system-tools) is looking rather dead as well :( | 21:11 |
| LaserJock | oh nifty | 22:35 |
| LaserJock | I think I found a patch to fix sabayon | 22:35 |
| Ahmuck | thankfully :) | 22:58 |
| crimsun | LaserJock: around to sponsor a main upload? | 23:38 |
| LaserJock | crimsun: sorta-ish what's the package? | 23:42 |
| crimsun | LaserJock: pulseaudio [http://www.trilug.org/~crimsun/pulseaudio_0.9.13-2ubuntu4.dsc] | 23:43 |
| crimsun | (goes without saying that the changes have been tested by at least two others from my ppa; this is a changelog bump) | 23:46 |
| LaserJock | crimsun: done | 23:52 |
| crimsun | LaserJock: thanks | 23:53 |
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