[02:51] <stgraber> LaserJock: around ?
[02:54] <LaserJock> stgraber: a bit yeah
[02:55] <stgraber> LaserJock: Do you have time for a quick ldm upload ? :)
[02:56] <LaserJock> stgraber: sure
[02:57] <stgraber> good, let me upload that somewhere you can get it
[02:58] <stgraber> doh, I really need to make the themes a different source package, 1.8MB for a .diff.gz is just stupid
[02:59] <stgraber> the .diff.gz is 5 times bigger than .orig.tar.gz ...
[03:00] <stgraber> LaserJock: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/ltsp/
[03:08] <LaserJock> stgraber: done
[03:08] <stgraber> LaserJock: thanks
[04:49] <Ahmuck> nubae: good day
[09:49] <StickManBob> !ops
[09:49] <StickManBob> !ops
[09:49] <StickManBob> !ops
[09:49] <StickManBob> !ops
[09:49] <StickManBob> !ops | Gay
[09:49] <StickManBob> ubottu: Gay secks.
[09:50] <StickManBob> ubottu: Bull shit.
[09:50] <StickManBob> ubottu: !ops
[09:50] <StickManBob> Sexy time!
[09:51] <StickManBob> jussi01: !ops!
[09:51] <StickManBob> !oos
[09:51] <StickManBob> !ops
[09:51] <StickManBob> tehnser
[09:51] <StickManBob> h'rt
[09:51] <StickManBob> hdr
[09:52] <StickManBob> th
[09:52] <StickManBob> edt
[09:52] <StickManBob> jn
[09:52] <StickManBob> rtsj
[09:52] <StickManBob> es
[09:52] <StickManBob> js
[09:52] <StickManBob> ergj
[09:52] <StickManBob> dfj
[09:52] <StickManBob> sr
[09:52] <StickManBob> j
[09:52] <StickManBob> j
[09:52] <StickManBob> df
[09:52] <StickManBob> j
[09:52] <StickManBob> dtr
[09:52] <StickManBob> tjh
[09:52] <StickManBob> dr
[09:52] <StickManBob> j
[09:52] <StickManBob> dr
[09:52] <StickManBob> j
[09:52] <StickManBob> d
[09:52] <StickManBob> jm
[09:52] <StickManBob> dy
[09:52] <StickManBob> j
[09:52] <StickManBob> drt
[09:52] <StickManBob> h
[09:52] <StickManBob> dr
[09:52] <StickManBob> j
[09:52] <StickManBob> d
[09:52] <StickManBob> j
[09:52] <StickManBob> dr
[09:52] <StickManBob> tjk
[09:52] <StickManBob> d
[09:52] <StickManBob> gj
[09:52] <StickManBob> dh
[09:53] <StickManBob> k
[09:53] <StickManBob> dr
[09:53] <StickManBob> hj
[09:53] <StickManBob> hnk
[09:53] <StickManBob> dr
[09:53] <StickManBob> gj
[09:53] <StickManBob> fgj
[09:53] <StickManBob> ser
[09:53] <StickManBob> jh
[09:53] <StickManBob> gfjse
[14:37] <joerg> hey
[18:12] <LaserJock> morning all
[18:15] <alkisg> Good morning LaserJock
[18:21] <LaserJock> alkisg: how's it going?
[18:22] <alkisg> I'm surviving... :) u?
[18:23] <LaserJock> same ;-)
[18:23] <LaserJock> getting back to work after holidays
[18:24] <alkisg> Still days off here... but much work to do nonetheless
[19:53] <LaserJock> nubae: you'll be happy to know I just closed all the thin-client-manager bugs
[19:57] <Ahmuck> LaserJock: let me open more :)
[19:57] <alkisg> Wow... does this still work in intrepid? :)
[19:57] <Ahmuck> LaserJock: we were chatting about somebody doing some python work on one of the management admin gui's?
[19:58] <LaserJock> were we?
[19:59]  * LaserJock has lost a lot of memory as well as hair during grad school
[19:59] <alkisg> Ahmuck: like what? I've just started this: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/users-manager.png
[20:00] <Ahmuck> connected with sayboyon or p* something
[20:00] <alkisg> pessulus?
[20:00] <Ahmuck> and perhaps a admin gui to admin thin/fat clients iirc
[20:00] <LaserJock> alkisg: what does that do?
[20:00] <Ahmuck> let me dig through logs i suppose
[20:00] <LaserJock> ah, I think I remember more
[20:01] <LaserJock> I was talking about how sabayon is in bad shape
[20:01] <Ahmuck> is it fixable or needs to be re-written?
[20:01] <LaserJock> and so we were talking about generally user management in education
[20:01] <alkisg> LaserJock: it's supposed to enable the admin to select with the mouse a bunch of users and do something with them. Anything, from clearing the firefox cache to creating a link to the users' desktop
[20:01] <Ahmuck> alkisg: is that python/gtk?
[20:01] <alkisg> Yeap
[20:01] <Ahmuck> kewl
[20:01] <alkisg> Just learning the staff, but it's powerful enough
[20:02] <LaserJock> ok, we sort of need gather these projects together a bit
[20:02] <Ahmuck> agreed
[20:02] <LaserJock> having 5 different, independent user management tools out there makes things difficult
[20:02] <Ahmuck> a edubuntu management interface would be nice.  the individual that i was thinking of has done a major python/gtk app, however, i'm thinking he wants smaller parts
[20:03] <Ahmuck> is it possible to create a master with modules?
[20:03] <LaserJock> yeah, that's possible
[20:03] <Ahmuck> based on python/gtk.  though i prefer qt
[20:03] <alkisg> python/gtk is good, it allows for easy user-modifications
[20:03] <LaserJock> is python, anything is possible ;-)
[20:03] <LaserJock> *it's
[20:03] <Ahmuck> i think that would be the better approach, then one could "plug-in" a module
[20:03] <alkisg> That's what "user scripts" menu is in my screenshot
[20:04] <Ahmuck> a user module, thin client module, fat client module, a self awareness of thin/fat client module, etc.
[20:04] <LaserJock> I think first we need a bit of a spec describing what tools exist, what functions they perform and what added functions are needed
[20:04] <alkisg> It's a pitty that users-admin isn't based on python/gtk, and isn't customizable
[20:04] <alkisg> ...and doesn't allow selecting multiple users, and doesn't allow scripting... :)
[20:04] <LaserJock> well, one *could* imagine patching users-admin to be perhaps more modular
[20:05] <alkisg> No, a different language should be used. C => python.
[20:05] <LaserJock> well, you can have users-admin in C and everything else in python
[20:06] <LaserJock> essentially something like having a users-admin portal execute python scripts/modules
[20:06] <Ahmuck> flexablity i think is important
[20:06] <Ahmuck> even if it means scraping the old stuff in favor for something new
[20:07] <Ahmuck> if it works
[20:07] <LaserJock> I seriously doubt Gnome is going to want to rewrite users-admin in python just so we can do some fun things :-)
[20:07] <Ahmuck> and a more unified interface
[20:07] <Ahmuck> *shrugs*, perhaps they'll adopt ours :)
[20:07] <LaserJock> they're sort of different problems, IMO
[20:08] <LaserJock> users-admin is really for managing single or few-user systems
[20:08] <LaserJock> we want a mass-user management tool that works well in LTSP environments, right?
[20:09] <alkisg> The kusers tool of KDE is pretty close to my users-manager, except that it doesn't allow for scripts to run
[20:09] <alkisg> I guess the gnome guys are just bored :)
[20:10] <LaserJock> so where does iTalic fit in with all this?
[20:11] <alkisg> italc is for the users currently logged on, users-admin or user-manager or kuser is for all the users
[20:11] <alkisg> So, not really related
[20:11] <LaserJock> ok, so iTalic gives you control over active thin clients
[20:12] <alkisg> Pesullus will be merged into sabayon, and sabayon is for forced/default settings
[20:12] <alkisg> So 3 different tools are needed
[20:12] <LaserJock> whereas we need an overall user management tool, correct?
[20:13] <LaserJock> alkisg: how do you know pessulus will be merged into sabayon?
[20:13] <alkisg> I've read about it in some developer log/list/something
[20:14] <LaserJock> since sabayon is essentially dead right now I'm curious if that is really going to happen, at least with the current status
[20:15] <LaserJock> ok, so I see 3 basic tasks that are needed:
[20:15] <LaserJock> 1) thin client management
[20:16] <LaserJock> 2) user management (adding/removing/LDAP, etc.)
[20:16] <LaserJock> 3) user settings management (lockdown, profile management, etc.)
[20:16] <LaserJock> does that seem right?
[20:17] <alkisg> LaserJock: http://live.gnome.org/Sabayon
[20:17] <alkisg> Integrating Pessulus into Sabayon
[20:17] <LaserJock> right, that's sort of oudated, though not exactly untrue
[20:18] <LaserJock> in the sense that Sabayon uses a copy of Pessulus within itself
[20:18] <LaserJock> but I don't know if the idea was to replace Pessulus and I'm sure right now can't as nobody has committed code to Sabayon is over 6 months
[20:22] <alkisg> I don't think Sabayon is what admins need... extending or replacing users-admin with a plugin system seems a better idea in my head.
[20:23] <alkisg> The end result I'd like is: select a group of users, and goto to scripts=>panels=>add the gnome-language-panel for them. Much more simple and targeted than sabayon
[20:24] <LaserJock> well, sabayon is useful for mass changes and for profile management
[20:24] <LaserJock> if you're just making a few small changes then it is overkill
[20:25] <alkisg> I can't see anything that can be done with sabayon that couldn't be done quicker/easier with an extended users-admin...
[20:25] <LaserJock> but users-admin doesn't do profiles
[20:25] <alkisg> That's the plugins/script part that's missing
[20:25] <LaserJock> well, then why not use sabayon?
[20:26] <alkisg> Because sabayon doesn't apply the changes to the users. It just creates the profile
[20:26] <alkisg> I can't clear the browser cache for 50 specific users with sabayon.
[20:26] <alkisg> I can't set the wallpaper for 50 specific users with sabayon. Etc etc
[20:27] <LaserJock> sure
[20:27] <LaserJock> that's why I'm saying there's a few different tasks
[20:27] <LaserJock> I think Sabayon is going to be one of the things we need
[20:27] <LaserJock> it's ~ 15k lines of code that we probably shouldn't just toss out the window
[20:27] <alkisg> Could you give me an example of what sabayon could do and an extended users-admin couldn't ?
[20:28] <LaserJock> what I'm saying is that those aren't mutually exclusive
[20:28] <LaserJock> have Sabayon be one of the modules in an extended users-admin tool
[20:32] <alkisg> LaserJock: the 3 tools I'm thinking are useful, are (1) thin client management = something like italc, (2) user management = an extended users-admin, (3) a lock down mechanism like a simpler gksu gconf-editor
[20:33] <LaserJock> right, 3 is pessulus really
[20:33] <alkisg> pessulus only has 5-10 settings, gconf-editor has thousands
[20:33] <alkisg> ...and the 3rd one could easily be integrated into the 2nd
[20:33] <LaserJock> 4) is profile management, i.e. sabayon which some might find useful
[20:33] <LaserJock> well sure, pessulus is limited
[20:34] <LaserJock> that's why people need to work on it :-)
[20:36] <LaserJock> it would be useful if Sabayon and Pessulus were combined in their code-base
[20:37] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what to think about extending users-admin
[20:37] <LaserJock> sort of a hackish thing to do would be to have users-admin look for Sabayon, etc. and present buttons to launch them
[20:40] <alkisg> I think users-admin has to be rewritten in pygtk for ubuntu, and maybe pyqt for kubuntu ;)
[20:41] <alkisg> (but kusers in kubuntu is good enough, it just needs to allow for user defined scripts)
[20:42] <Ahmuck> u need a machine lockdown, configurator as well
[20:42] <Ahmuck> i'd like to lock all cdroms of machines in classroom a, but not i b
[20:42] <alkisg> Yeah, a simpler gconf-editor
[20:42] <alkisg> (or a better pessulus)
[20:43] <Ahmuck> or add/remove clients and have a baseline for the boot up to decide if it should be a fat client or thin client
[20:43] <Ahmuck> another problem i ran into, is the thin client/fat client requires seperate maintence of software installation and update
[20:44] <alkisg> The problem with that is that the clients could be of different architectures
[20:44] <alkisg> So you could even have 2-3 different images, for i386, amd64, macs etc
[20:45] <alkisg> That's difficult... :(
[20:45] <LaserJock> well, I think it's useful to have an overall goal of where we want to head, but then break up things into smaller, doable chunks
[20:45] <LaserJock> i.e. what can we do for Jaunty?
[20:53] <LaserJock> nothing? :-)
[20:53] <alkisg> I don't know for Jaunty... :( ...but I'll have my users-manager ready in late summer! :P :D
[20:54] <LaserJock> well, perhaps if more people worked on it it could be ready for Jaunty or near there?
[20:57] <alkisg> Sure, but is anyone interested?
[20:57] <LaserJock> maybe
[20:58] <LaserJock> you could write an email to edubuntu-users/devel perhaps
[20:58] <LaserJock> it doesn't hurt to ask
[20:58] <alkisg> OK, I'll try...
[20:58] <Ahmuck> doesn't ltsp build a profile of each machine by mac address?
[20:58] <LaserJock> no
[20:58] <Ahmuck> so you would have an idea of what proc/mem was on the machine?
[20:59] <Ahmuck> ah
[20:59] <Ahmuck> it's not that smart?
[20:59] <LaserJock> or
[20:59] <LaserJock> I don't know actually
[20:59] <LaserJock> I think not but stgraber might now
[21:01] <Ahmuck> if you had a basic config file for each mac address in a list, then it would be easy to pick out what machines should be thin and which should be fat
[21:01] <LaserJock> yes
[21:01] <Ahmuck> part of my problem with fat client setup, is one literally has to hand edit machines for fat or thin client boot
[21:02] <Ahmuck> sorry, i think i'm thinking beyond the project atm
[21:03] <alkisg> Ahmuck: you could use the "like" stanza of lts.conf
[21:07] <stgraber> LaserJock: ouch, I just saw that you closed a handful of LTSP bugs too, looks like we'll soon get a clean LP :)
[21:08] <LaserJock> stgraber: working on it. Trying to get a more useful TODO list
[21:08] <LaserJock> we're down to 223 open bugs
[21:10] <LaserJock> man, there's just an incredible amount of work that could be done on user management
[21:11] <LaserJock> the users-admin upstream (gnome-system-tools) is looking rather dead as well :(
[22:35] <LaserJock> oh nifty
[22:35] <LaserJock> I think I found a patch to fix sabayon
[22:58] <Ahmuck> thankfully :)
[23:38] <crimsun> LaserJock: around to sponsor a main upload?
[23:42] <LaserJock> crimsun: sorta-ish what's the package?
[23:43] <crimsun> LaserJock: pulseaudio [http://www.trilug.org/~crimsun/pulseaudio_0.9.13-2ubuntu4.dsc]
[23:46] <crimsun> (goes without saying that the changes have been tested by at least two others from my ppa; this is a changelog bump)
[23:52] <LaserJock> crimsun: done
[23:53] <crimsun> LaserJock: thanks