[02:51] LaserJock: around ? [02:54] stgraber: a bit yeah [02:55] LaserJock: Do you have time for a quick ldm upload ? :) [02:56] stgraber: sure [02:57] good, let me upload that somewhere you can get it [02:58] doh, I really need to make the themes a different source package, 1.8MB for a .diff.gz is just stupid [02:59] the .diff.gz is 5 times bigger than .orig.tar.gz ... [03:00] LaserJock: http://www.stgraber.org/download/ubuntu/ltsp/ [03:08] stgraber: done [03:08] LaserJock: thanks [04:49] nubae: good day [09:49] !ops [09:49] Help! ogra, highvoltage, mhz, JaneW, Burgundavia or Seveas [09:49] !ops [09:49] !ops [09:49] !ops [09:49] !ops | Gay [09:49] Gay: please see above [09:49] ubottu: Gay secks. [09:49] Sorry, I don't know anything about Gay secks. [09:50] ubottu: Bull shit. [09:50] Sorry, I don't know anything about Bull shit. [09:50] ubottu: !ops [09:50] Help! ogra, highvoltage, mhz, JaneW, Burgundavia or Seveas [09:50] Sexy time! [09:51] jussi01: !ops! [09:51] !oos [09:51] Sorry, I don't know anything about oos [09:51] !ops [09:51] Help! ogra, highvoltage, mhz, JaneW, Burgundavia or Seveas [09:51] tehnser [09:51] h'rt [09:51] hdr [09:52] th [09:52] edt [09:52] jn [09:52] rtsj [09:52] es [09:52] js [09:52] ergj [09:52] dfj [09:52] sr [09:52] j [09:52] j [09:52] df [09:52] j [09:52] dtr [09:52] tjh [09:52] dr [09:52] j [09:52] dr [09:52] j [09:52] d [09:52] jm [09:52] dy [09:52] j [09:52] drt [09:52] h [09:52] dr [09:52] j [09:52] d [09:52] j [09:52] dr [09:52] tjk [09:52] d [09:52] gj [09:52] dh [09:53] k [09:53] dr [09:53] hj [09:53] hnk [09:53] dr [09:53] gj [09:53] fgj [09:53] ser [09:53] jh [09:53] gfjse [14:37] hey [18:12] morning all [18:15] Good morning LaserJock [18:21] alkisg: how's it going? [18:22] I'm surviving... :) u? [18:23] same ;-) [18:23] getting back to work after holidays [18:24] Still days off here... but much work to do nonetheless === jussio1 is now known as jussi01 [19:53] nubae: you'll be happy to know I just closed all the thin-client-manager bugs [19:57] LaserJock: let me open more :) [19:57] Wow... does this still work in intrepid? :) [19:57] LaserJock: we were chatting about somebody doing some python work on one of the management admin gui's? [19:58] were we? [19:59] * LaserJock has lost a lot of memory as well as hair during grad school [19:59] Ahmuck: like what? I've just started this: http://users.sch.gr/alkisg/temp/users-manager.png [20:00] connected with sayboyon or p* something [20:00] pessulus? [20:00] and perhaps a admin gui to admin thin/fat clients iirc [20:00] alkisg: what does that do? [20:00] let me dig through logs i suppose [20:00] ah, I think I remember more [20:01] I was talking about how sabayon is in bad shape [20:01] is it fixable or needs to be re-written? [20:01] and so we were talking about generally user management in education [20:01] LaserJock: it's supposed to enable the admin to select with the mouse a bunch of users and do something with them. Anything, from clearing the firefox cache to creating a link to the users' desktop [20:01] alkisg: is that python/gtk? [20:01] Yeap [20:01] kewl [20:01] Just learning the staff, but it's powerful enough [20:02] ok, we sort of need gather these projects together a bit [20:02] agreed [20:02] having 5 different, independent user management tools out there makes things difficult [20:02] a edubuntu management interface would be nice. the individual that i was thinking of has done a major python/gtk app, however, i'm thinking he wants smaller parts [20:03] is it possible to create a master with modules? [20:03] yeah, that's possible [20:03] based on python/gtk. though i prefer qt [20:03] python/gtk is good, it allows for easy user-modifications [20:03] is python, anything is possible ;-) [20:03] *it's [20:03] i think that would be the better approach, then one could "plug-in" a module [20:03] That's what "user scripts" menu is in my screenshot [20:04] a user module, thin client module, fat client module, a self awareness of thin/fat client module, etc. [20:04] I think first we need a bit of a spec describing what tools exist, what functions they perform and what added functions are needed [20:04] It's a pitty that users-admin isn't based on python/gtk, and isn't customizable [20:04] ...and doesn't allow selecting multiple users, and doesn't allow scripting... :) [20:04] well, one *could* imagine patching users-admin to be perhaps more modular [20:05] No, a different language should be used. C => python. [20:05] well, you can have users-admin in C and everything else in python [20:06] essentially something like having a users-admin portal execute python scripts/modules [20:06] flexablity i think is important [20:06] even if it means scraping the old stuff in favor for something new [20:07] if it works [20:07] I seriously doubt Gnome is going to want to rewrite users-admin in python just so we can do some fun things :-) [20:07] and a more unified interface [20:07] *shrugs*, perhaps they'll adopt ours :) [20:07] they're sort of different problems, IMO [20:08] users-admin is really for managing single or few-user systems [20:08] we want a mass-user management tool that works well in LTSP environments, right? [20:09] The kusers tool of KDE is pretty close to my users-manager, except that it doesn't allow for scripts to run [20:09] I guess the gnome guys are just bored :) [20:10] so where does iTalic fit in with all this? [20:11] italc is for the users currently logged on, users-admin or user-manager or kuser is for all the users [20:11] So, not really related [20:11] ok, so iTalic gives you control over active thin clients [20:12] Pesullus will be merged into sabayon, and sabayon is for forced/default settings [20:12] So 3 different tools are needed [20:12] whereas we need an overall user management tool, correct? [20:13] alkisg: how do you know pessulus will be merged into sabayon? [20:13] I've read about it in some developer log/list/something [20:14] since sabayon is essentially dead right now I'm curious if that is really going to happen, at least with the current status [20:15] ok, so I see 3 basic tasks that are needed: [20:15] 1) thin client management [20:16] 2) user management (adding/removing/LDAP, etc.) [20:16] 3) user settings management (lockdown, profile management, etc.) [20:16] does that seem right? [20:17] LaserJock: http://live.gnome.org/Sabayon [20:17] Integrating Pessulus into Sabayon [20:17] right, that's sort of oudated, though not exactly untrue [20:18] in the sense that Sabayon uses a copy of Pessulus within itself [20:18] but I don't know if the idea was to replace Pessulus and I'm sure right now can't as nobody has committed code to Sabayon is over 6 months [20:22] I don't think Sabayon is what admins need... extending or replacing users-admin with a plugin system seems a better idea in my head. [20:23] The end result I'd like is: select a group of users, and goto to scripts=>panels=>add the gnome-language-panel for them. Much more simple and targeted than sabayon [20:24] well, sabayon is useful for mass changes and for profile management [20:24] if you're just making a few small changes then it is overkill [20:25] I can't see anything that can be done with sabayon that couldn't be done quicker/easier with an extended users-admin... [20:25] but users-admin doesn't do profiles [20:25] That's the plugins/script part that's missing [20:25] well, then why not use sabayon? [20:26] Because sabayon doesn't apply the changes to the users. It just creates the profile [20:26] I can't clear the browser cache for 50 specific users with sabayon. [20:26] I can't set the wallpaper for 50 specific users with sabayon. Etc etc [20:27] sure [20:27] that's why I'm saying there's a few different tasks [20:27] I think Sabayon is going to be one of the things we need [20:27] it's ~ 15k lines of code that we probably shouldn't just toss out the window [20:27] Could you give me an example of what sabayon could do and an extended users-admin couldn't ? [20:28] what I'm saying is that those aren't mutually exclusive [20:28] have Sabayon be one of the modules in an extended users-admin tool [20:32] LaserJock: the 3 tools I'm thinking are useful, are (1) thin client management = something like italc, (2) user management = an extended users-admin, (3) a lock down mechanism like a simpler gksu gconf-editor [20:33] right, 3 is pessulus really [20:33] pessulus only has 5-10 settings, gconf-editor has thousands [20:33] ...and the 3rd one could easily be integrated into the 2nd [20:33] 4) is profile management, i.e. sabayon which some might find useful [20:33] well sure, pessulus is limited [20:34] that's why people need to work on it :-) [20:36] it would be useful if Sabayon and Pessulus were combined in their code-base [20:37] I'm not sure what to think about extending users-admin [20:37] sort of a hackish thing to do would be to have users-admin look for Sabayon, etc. and present buttons to launch them [20:40] I think users-admin has to be rewritten in pygtk for ubuntu, and maybe pyqt for kubuntu ;) [20:41] (but kusers in kubuntu is good enough, it just needs to allow for user defined scripts) [20:42] u need a machine lockdown, configurator as well [20:42] i'd like to lock all cdroms of machines in classroom a, but not i b [20:42] Yeah, a simpler gconf-editor [20:42] (or a better pessulus) [20:43] or add/remove clients and have a baseline for the boot up to decide if it should be a fat client or thin client [20:43] another problem i ran into, is the thin client/fat client requires seperate maintence of software installation and update [20:44] The problem with that is that the clients could be of different architectures [20:44] So you could even have 2-3 different images, for i386, amd64, macs etc [20:45] That's difficult... :( [20:45] well, I think it's useful to have an overall goal of where we want to head, but then break up things into smaller, doable chunks [20:45] i.e. what can we do for Jaunty? [20:53] nothing? :-) [20:53] I don't know for Jaunty... :( ...but I'll have my users-manager ready in late summer! :P :D [20:54] well, perhaps if more people worked on it it could be ready for Jaunty or near there? [20:57] Sure, but is anyone interested? [20:57] maybe [20:58] you could write an email to edubuntu-users/devel perhaps [20:58] it doesn't hurt to ask [20:58] OK, I'll try... [20:58] doesn't ltsp build a profile of each machine by mac address? [20:58] no [20:58] so you would have an idea of what proc/mem was on the machine? [20:59] ah [20:59] it's not that smart? [20:59] or [20:59] I don't know actually [20:59] I think not but stgraber might now [21:01] if you had a basic config file for each mac address in a list, then it would be easy to pick out what machines should be thin and which should be fat [21:01] yes [21:01] part of my problem with fat client setup, is one literally has to hand edit machines for fat or thin client boot [21:02] sorry, i think i'm thinking beyond the project atm [21:03] Ahmuck: you could use the "like" stanza of lts.conf [21:07] LaserJock: ouch, I just saw that you closed a handful of LTSP bugs too, looks like we'll soon get a clean LP :) [21:08] stgraber: working on it. Trying to get a more useful TODO list [21:08] we're down to 223 open bugs [21:10] man, there's just an incredible amount of work that could be done on user management [21:11] the users-admin upstream (gnome-system-tools) is looking rather dead as well :( [22:35] oh nifty [22:35] I think I found a patch to fix sabayon [22:58] thankfully :) [23:38] LaserJock: around to sponsor a main upload? [23:42] crimsun: sorta-ish what's the package? [23:43] LaserJock: pulseaudio [http://www.trilug.org/~crimsun/pulseaudio_0.9.13-2ubuntu4.dsc] [23:46] (goes without saying that the changes have been tested by at least two others from my ppa; this is a changelog bump) [23:52] crimsun: done [23:53] LaserJock: thanks