[00:34] <vadi2> Hi, I'm not sure who to tell this, but www.opensource.mirrors.org is a ubuntu mirror and the domain is expired. For example http://www.opensourcemirrors.org/ubuntu/pool/universe/b/bogosec/bogosec_2.3-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb will not work
[00:36] <cjwatson> vadi2: #ubuntu-mirrors or mirrors@ubuntu.com would be better
[00:37] <vadi2> alrighty, thank you.
[00:59] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: are there any plans to sanitise the ubuntu-devel@ moderation queue?
[01:00] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: what's up with it? I haven't looked since before Christmas
[01:00] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: mark's mail has generated a lot of response - directly to that list
[01:00] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: I'll sort it out at some point, already talked about it with Mark
[01:02] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: OK
[01:02]  * Hobbsee does a bit of cherrypickingon it
[01:02] <cjwatson> feel free to reject such mails and ask them to respond to Mark directly (though apparently he's already got several hundred responses ...)
[01:03] <Hobbsee> i did...
[01:03] <Hobbsee> and then i hit ctrl+c by accident on my listadmin
[01:03] <Hobbsee> cursed loudly, and decided not to do that again
[01:03] <cjwatson> I'm happy to deal with it when I get that far
[01:04] <Hobbsee> cool :)
[01:04]  * Hobbsee is just cherrypicking by subject line, at thisp oint
[01:17] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: I posted a followup and am rejecting with this message: "Thanks for your response, but could you please send it to Mark directly, rather than to ubuntu-devel? See https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-December/027088.html for more information."
[01:17] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: sounds good to me
[01:19] <directhex> oh my... mark started a "desktop thread" on the mailing list? no wonder the mod queues are clogged
[01:55] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: queue cleared
[01:58] <Nafallo> \o/
[02:02] <Hobbsee> \o/
[03:29] <lamalex> Does anyone know if there is a channel for the ubuntu netbook remix devs?
[03:29] <lamalex> their LP page doesn't make it obvious
[04:46] <calc> cjwatson: noticed the post about most common laptop screen resolution being 1024x768? (wrt sabdfl) can you even get a 4:3 aspect panel anymore, i would think 1280x800 is the most common for the past several years at least
[04:47]  * calc thinks the only 1024x768 laptop still being made (that he knows of) is the X61 which is due to be EOL any day now
[05:02] <persia> calc, 1400x1050 and 1600x1200 remain available in 4:3
[05:02] <calc> persia: oh ok
[05:03] <persia> Also, the Panasonic Let's Note series for R, and W are still 1024x768, although I have to agree they are less common these days.
[05:04] <calc> ok
[09:12] <fargiolas> did anyone from SRU team already look at bug #308890 ?
[10:51] <directhex> how much RAM do the buildds have?
[10:57] <Nafallo> differs
[10:58] <directhex> to build something like, say, openjdk
[10:59] <persia> directhex, Some have in excess of 4GB available.
[10:59] <directhex> persia, somehow that doesn't surprise me
[11:00] <directhex> persia, i thought there was a problem with building ikvm, some kind of memory leak
[11:01] <directhex> persia, the memory leak is called "javac". the "-J-Xmx1536M" doesn't help much. lowering that value leads to an OOM error
[11:02] <persia> I thought ikvm was compiled against the CLI, rather than a JVM
[11:04] <directhex> persia, ikvm is the bastard child of both.
[11:04] <directhex> persia, IKVM.GNU.Classpath.dll has to come from somewhere
[11:04] <directhex> well, IKVM.Opensomethingorother these days. updating the package in a sane way is the problem
[11:05] <directhex> i only have 2 gig of ram on here
[11:05] <directhex> (only! ¬_¬)
[11:06] <persia> Right.  I remember looking at that a few months ago, and realising I didn't have any idea how to update it properly.
[11:06] <directhex> it's the package nobody wants to touch. with good reason.
[11:06] <persia> You could try PPA builds to see if they work: I've heard of people building OOo in PPAs, so it can't be that restricted.
[11:06] <persia> What's the rationale for it again?
[11:07] <directhex> rationale for what? ikvm?
[11:07] <persia> Rather, ikvm in the repos.
[11:09] <directhex> it's technically highly interesting. for one, it allows you to use any .class, unmodified, in a CLI app, e.g. where a java lib exists but a CLI one doesn't
[11:09] <directhex> i wonder if it's on debian popcon
[11:09] <persia> 149 / 39 / 88 / 22 / 0
[11:09] <persia> No maintainer either, and removed from testing.
[11:10] <directhex> the maintainer dumped it for sanity reasons
[11:10] <directhex> i could probably massage it back into life if i had enough ram to actually test build it
[11:10] <directhex> right now i just want to make sure the latest version compiles & works
[11:11] <persia> Use a PPA for the test build.  It ought either be made to work or dropped, as it's currently mostly a curiosity.
[11:12] <directhex> need a shell right now. sigh, i could build a chroot in a machine at work, in theory
[11:13] <directhex> i wonder if it works on itanium. a terabyte of ram ought to be enough, even for java...
[11:50] <cjwatson> calc: all I did was moderate the mailing list discussion - I have no involvement in the screenshot gathering itself
[11:56] <directhex> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  30M Dec 29 11:54 IKVM.OpenJDK.ClassLibrary.dll
[11:57] <directhex> well, it's less chunky than "real" openjdk ;)
[12:25] <LordMetroid> ahh here we go
[12:26] <LordMetroid> I see that 9.04 will merely focus on getting the boot to become quicker
[12:27] <LordMetroid> However ever since I started using Ubuntu around 2005 I have experienced it to become slower and slower in general
[12:27] <LordMetroid> Anyone know where I should turn to try to fix this?
[12:27] <LordMetroid> I mean community wise, where am I suppose to starr
[12:27] <LordMetroid> *start
[12:28] <persia> LordMetroid, profile the applications you use most.  Determine what's slow.  Try to optimise those things.
[12:28] <LordMetroid> persia, ok... I've been looking through the wiki and featyre/bug list, is that where I shall post my findings?
[12:30] <persia> You might organise our findings on the wiki.  The bug tracker would be the place to file the optimisation solutions.
[12:32] <Company> site note: debugging perceived slowness is _hard_
[12:33] <LordMetroid> Indeed
[12:33] <Company> (and it's "side", not "site")
[12:34] <LordMetroid> It is not merely percieved, using Ubuntu on the 5 year old laptop that I do have, it is a human measurable relative slowness
[12:34] <Company> yeah, but that is to be expected
[12:34] <Company> people add features so code runs "fast enough" on current models
[12:34] <Company> s/so/as long as/
[12:36] <LordMetroid> I know, that is why I have to look out for the little man in the cottage still using their 5 year old laptops
[12:36] <LordMetroid> :)
[12:37] <persia> LordMetroid, One thing to consider is that there may be more services running in the background: try reviewing the process list and see what happens if you make them the same.
[12:37] <persia> Then, of course, you want to get the services back :)
[12:38] <cjwatson> this may be politically incorrect but it is not clear to me that the community can do a whole lot to help with optimisation. Performance work is generally hard development graft
[12:39] <cjwatson> once some of that work is done we'll need help to ensure that we haven't broken anything, of course
[12:44] <LordMetroid> Why is sun-java packages non-free? I thought Sun had revised their licenses and made Java GNU?
[12:44] <persia> cjwatson, It's hard, but is there any reason that any given person can't do it, assuming they have the time and expertise?
[12:45] <persia> LordMetroid, You're looking for OpenJDK for the open one.  The sun-java packages are legacy.
[12:55] <LordMetroid> Is OpenJDK the default package being installed?
[12:55] <LordMetroid> I noticed GCJ's speed is terrible comparatively to Sun-java
[13:04] <cjwatson> persia: such expertise is sufficient to make you a developer IMO
[13:06] <persia> Ah.  I guess we're just looking at separate semantics.  I'd agree that anyone with that expertise ought self-identify as a developer.
[13:11] <maxb> Hi. If there's anyone who knows how Packages-arch-specific is supposed to work, would they care to check I'm not talking nonsense in bug 311952?
[13:12] <maxb> And also tell me whether I should be reporting that to some Ubuntu entity as disctinct from Soyuz itself
[13:14] <persia> maxb, Soyuz would be the right place to report it.  I can't say whether it is a bug or not, in part because I don't know how one might trigger a build of just some binary packages.
[13:16] <maxb> It's the source package's responsibility to build the subset of binary packages for the architecture it's being built on/for
[13:17] <maxb> and in the specific case of my example, it does do that, if only Soyuz would actually attempt the build at all
[17:08] <bbs> http://dpaste.com/103409/
[17:08] <bbs> :(
[17:11] <tseliot> bbs: follow only point 1 of Tutorial 1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/HandsOn
[17:12] <tseliot> it will help you remove the error about your key
[17:14] <bbs> thx
[17:39] <calc> cjwatson: ok
[17:58] <NCommander> Where's the package where the installability information of te archive is posted?
[18:35] <CarlFK> before I consult an attorney (which may happen, but the more I can give him the better) I am wondering what the licensing issues are for modifying and redistributing one of the stock fonts?
[18:35] <CarlFK> namely   http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/all/gsfonts/filelist  /usr/share/fonts/type1/gsfonts/n019004l.afm
[18:36] <Laney> CarlFK: If you apt-get source gsfonts, it should tell you the license
[18:36] <CarlFK> looking at the header carl@asus17:~$ grep Copyright /usr/share/fonts/type1/gsfonts/n019004l.afm; Notice (Copyright (URW)++,Copyright 1999 by (URW)++ Design & Development; Cyrillic glyphs added by Valek Filippov (C) 2001-2005)
[18:36] <CarlFK> looking...
[18:37] <Laney> try debian/copyright or COPYING in the root
[18:37] <LaserJock> it says it's GPL
[18:37] <Laney> rock on
[18:37] <CarlFK> awesome.  thanks
[18:39] <LaserJock> looks like GPLv2 although it points to /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL which now points to GPLv3
[18:40] <LaserJock> but it looks like GPLv2 just looking at /usr/share/docs/gsfonts/copyright
[18:41] <CarlFK> I'll let someone else worry about that level of detail.
[18:42] <fta> pitti, thanks for calibre. I wanted to do it (i own a PRS-700) but you beat me to it. I fixed the deps and added desktop files a few days ago in my branch but I saw you did it today, so all is fine.
[18:42] <CarlFK> now I am on to figuring out how to make it 140% wider.
[18:45] <fta> pitti, just a thought though... i would have created a packaging branch with just the debian/ dir. easier to keep the upstream branch clean.
[20:27] <avb> hey guy
[20:27] <avb> guys
[20:27] <avb> http://www.gnome.org/~lcolitti/gnome-startup/analysis/
[20:27] <avb> does somebody already have seen this article?
[20:28] <avb> look like gnome startup can be improved a lot, with gconf tunning
[21:05] <LaserJock> anybody know if gnome-system-tools is sort of dead upstream?
[21:23] <james_w> LaserJock: yeah
[21:23] <Laney> bryce: Do you have your merge_changelog script still?
[21:24] <LaserJock> james_w: yeah as in you know or yeah as in it's sort of dead? :-)
[21:24] <james_w> Laney: I've got a copy if it's not on people.ubuntu.com anymore
[21:24] <Laney> james_w: It 404s. Can you upload, or better shove it in u-d-t?
[21:26] <james_w> http://jameswestby.net/scratch/merge_changelog
[21:26] <Laney> thanks muchly
[21:27] <james_w> I'll see about getting it in to devscripts
[21:31] <ebroder> Hmm...I wonder if you could make that simpler using python-debian...
[21:31] <james_w> probably
[21:31] <james_w> I might well do that as well :-)
[21:34] <ebroder> Hmm...this should actually be really easy. You get a debian_bundle.changelog.Version object for each element in both changelogs, throw them into a set, then sort, right?
[21:35] <james_w> not sure a set is correct, as there may be duplicates, but yeah, sounds about right
[21:36] <james_w> the issue is that calling cl.versions throws exceptions on too many occasions currently
[21:36] <ebroder> But you'd want to eliminate duplicates as part of the merge, wouldn't you?
[21:37] <ebroder> As long as both the Ubuntu package and the Debian package stuck to their respective policies, how could you have any overlap?
[21:37] <james_w> yeah, but not if an entry was duplicated on one side I believe.
[21:44] <sebner> james_w: is there any GNU document which tells you which files you have to have in your source tarball e.g AUTHORS; COPYING, ...
[21:44] <Laney> sebner: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html
[21:45] <ion_> AFAIU, to use GPL, you only need to distribute COPYING and have the appropriate comment block in the source files.
[21:45] <sebner> Laney: more +1's from me :P
[21:45] <Laney> heh
[21:46] <james_w> sebner: the GNU coding standards guide may say something about AUTHORS etc.
[21:46] <james_w> I believe AUTHORS, README, ChangeLog, NEWS are standard for GNU
[21:46] <sebner> james_w: but standard != must have?
[21:47] <james_w> not sure
[21:52] <Laney> sebner: http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~ial/sysinfo-fakemerge.debdiff
[21:52] <Laney> you don't need a bug, do you? :(
[21:52] <Laney> erm, that was meant for debian-mono
[21:52]  * Laney runs
[21:54] <james_w> "Only apply Ubuntu patches when building on Ubuntu" <- interesting
[21:55] <sebner> heh
[21:56] <Laney> so that we could have the same thing in debian and ubuntu
[21:56] <sebner> james_w: how is bzr accepted these days by developers? :)
[21:57] <james_w> Laney: yeah, it's sensible, I just find it odd that Debian wouldn't apply patches for known bugs
[21:57] <james_w> sebner: with a sample size of one, me, it's deemed to be the best thing since silicone egg poachers
[21:57] <Laney> james_w: Well that patch depends on our lsb-release behaviour, so it doesn't make sense for them
[21:58] <Laney> I should rewrite that bit to do the right thing
[21:58] <james_w> I was looking at the one that I uploaded, which applies to Debian as I understand
[21:58] <sebner> james_w: heh, sounds cool. though Debian folks say it's worse than svn
[21:59] <james_w> sebner: not all of them
[21:59] <Laney> james_w: The mono-cairo FTBFS doesn't happen there if that's what you mean
[22:00] <sebner> james_w: but many =)
[22:00] <james_w> Laney: 04-fix_usb_pci_limit.patch
[22:00] <Laney> shit, I applied that one didn't I?
[22:00] <james_w> oh
[22:00] <james_w> no, I see how it works now, sorry
[22:00] <james_w> I didn't realise series-ubuntu was a super-set of series
[22:01] <james_w> apologies for slighting your skills
[22:01] <Laney> yeah, I couldn't immediately see how to append series-ubuntu to series nicealy
[22:01] <Laney> -a
[22:02] <sebner> Laney: it builds \o/. uploading
[22:02] <james_w> I've seen it done somewhere I think, but maybe it wasn't quilt
[22:02] <Laney> sebner: Please test it a bit
[22:02] <Laney> if you have jaunty
[22:02]  * sebner upgrades to jaunty xD
[22:08] <sebner> james_w: btw, you are a canonical guy. Do you know something about the MoM -> DaD progress/process?
[22:08] <james_w> no idea, sorry
[22:08] <sebner> np np
[22:10] <Adri2000> sebner: ask Scott ;)
[22:10] <sebner> Adri2000: with K? ^^
[22:11] <ScottK-palm> About?
[22:11] <Lutin> sebner: no, with 'james remnant'
[22:11] <sebner> Lutin: thx )
[22:11] <sebner> =)
[22:11] <Adri2000> yep :)
[22:11] <sebner> ScottK: false alarm =)
[22:11] <ScottK-palm> Ah.
[22:40]  * stgraber is playing with hardy on ia64