=== jussio1 is now known as jussi01 === bddebian2 is now known as bddebian [17:11] morning all [17:14] well, last night I was able to get sabayon to stop crashing at startup when I edit a profile [17:15] LaserJock: how do you apply the profiles made with sabayon? [17:15] alkisg: do you mean in general? [17:16] yeah [17:16] you select a user to belong to a profile [17:16] but .... I haven't gotten that far yet [17:16] In a manual I saw that it was left to the reader.. And I thought, ok for new users, but what if I want to apply some settings to some existing users? [17:16] I'm getting crashers once I get into the profile [17:16] don't read the manual, that's from like 2006 [17:17] Intrepid? [17:17] hmm? [17:17] You get crashes with sabayon on intrepid? [17:17] yeah [17:17] Let me try... [17:18] I fixed one so now I can actually get the session started [17:18] but then I get a ton of database errors and it dies [17:19] to use the profile you click on the profile and then hit the Users button [17:20] then you can pick which users to apply it to [17:20] And how did you bypass the first bug? [17:21] well, it was actually a really little problem where it tries to find the orientation (top, bottom, etc.) of the panels [17:21] for some reason it was calling the function without a panel id and it would then crash [17:21] so I just added a little time that checks if a panel id exists and if it doesn't just assigns it as "top" [17:22] Ah, in the source, it's python, got it [17:22] s/time/code/ [17:22] and it worked ok at first [17:22] but then I got these database permission errors [17:23] looking at the Gnome bugzilla sabayon has 57 open bugs and many of them are crashers [17:23] my feeling is that Sabayon is trying to just do too much, you'd need a real team of people working in it to get it stable/maintained [17:24] this crasher I fixed is probably just because something changed in gnome-panel [17:24] Sabayon interacts so much with the apps that it has to keep up with *their* changes as well [17:25] Yes... it has to be plugin-based, possibly with different maintainers for each plugin [17:26] it's somewhat modular [17:27] but I don't know that right now one can pick which "modules" to use [17:27] Where was this first crash again? In /usr/bin/sabayon or in sabayon-session? [17:28] I can't get past it... [17:28] sabayon-session [17:28] so if you click on "Edit" an Xnest window pops up and it tries to start Gnome [17:29] but default Intrepid for me it just shuts down after a second or 2 and I never see anything in the window [17:29] alkisg: is that what you get? [17:30] Yes, the same [17:32] so now I need to figure out where these DB errors are coming from [17:32] it sort of looks like a permissions problem [17:32] What did you do to fix the first error? [17:33] changed anything in paneldelegate.py? [17:33] http://paste.ubuntu.com/96113/ [17:33] yep [17:34] you want to patch /usr/share/python-support/sabayon/sabayon/sources/paneldelegate.py [17:39] Nah.. I don't even get to see the database crashes [17:39] I see the desktop and then it's killed, but no error logs [17:39] woot, it works for me [17:40] try it again [17:40] I think I had some times where it wouldn't work the first time but if I hit "Edit" again it would [17:42] I tried it some times, most of them plain crashes without error log, on 2 of them I got a dialog to sent a .conf file to the sabayon team (but the file didn't exist) [17:42] ...debugging... [17:44] it's starting up every time here now [17:44] I got something: Failed to connect to socket /tmp/dbus-bkaJq0tpTl: Connection refused [17:44] but it's not saving some changes (removing launchers from the panel) [17:44] hmmm [17:44] Maybe I need to logoff [17:44] hmmm u guys working on sabayon... cool [17:44] I think I saw an upstream bug about that [17:45] nubae: I got it to start up here anyway :-) [17:48] this thing is terribly complex [17:48] yes, is it so complex it would be simpler to re-write? [17:49] that is what i was wondering [17:49] well, not if you want to do what it does [17:49] but it's just tracking *so* much stuff. My simple test profile where I turned off a couple things and edited the menu is a 11MB zip file! [17:50] did u get it to work? [17:50] well, I created it [17:50] nubae: hey, u here today? [17:50] yeah :-) [17:50] I got it working (once at least), but it complained a lot, and didn't save anything [17:52] Hm... it also leaves a lot of processes running after each crash [17:52] May I should kill them before restarting it [17:55] bah [17:55] yeah, kill them [17:55] I think that's what I was running into [17:55] I kept trying and got problems, then this morning I tried it again (without logging out or rebooting) and it works fine [17:56] well, users-admin seems to not be able to add a user! [17:56] Gnome is really falling apart when it comes to basic user management :( [17:56] yep [17:56] I use the command line only now [17:58] not to mention its totally differenta cross all distros [17:58] LaserJock: this happened to hardy as well, users-admin had problems getting root rights didn't complain about it or something [17:59] I see a bug where it looks for user "root" instead of UID 0 [17:59] I wonder if that's it [17:59] I don't think so [18:00] LaserJock: it worked fine for me in hardy [18:01] which is why i think python would be better and modules [18:01] then you could step through it one at a time. i am however NOT a programmer [18:02] well, it doesn't really matter so much what language it's written in [18:02] bottom line there has to be people behind it [18:03] Yes, but if it's interpreter or shell-based, it's easier for admins to debug the problem and send accurate feedback / patches [18:04] guess there is some truth to that [18:04] not every admin is a package maintainer I suppose [18:05] alkisg: I'm not entirely sure about that [18:06] gdb can do a pretty good job of debugging C/C++ apps [18:06] Sure, but does a regular admin that exceriences the problem download the source, configure and compile it, and then run it under gdb to see where the problem is? [18:06] they don't have to [18:07] Why not? How accurate feedback can you give now with the problem in users-admin? [18:07] they might need to install the debugging symbols package, but they don't need to compile or anything like that === jussio1 is now known as jussi01 [18:08] Debuggin on a live system is surely a better way than looking though a crash dump [18:08] yeah [18:09] right, but that doesn't have a ton to do with the language you write it in [18:10] I mean, don't get me wrong, I love Python and prefer it [18:10] but I'm not going to just go rewrite every app that's not in Python :-) [18:10] Of course not!!! [18:11] alright, I found the problem [18:11] users-admin checks that each user has a login, password, home directory, and shell [18:11] I've been an assembly/C/Pascal programmer myself for the last ...ehm... 17 years, so it isn't easy for me to switch to python as well [18:12] Sabayon uses a user that doesn't have a home directory [18:12] so basically if you install Sabayon you can no longer use users-admin :( [18:12] pascal :-) such a educationally popular language [18:12] at least it was [18:12] I never learned Pascal [18:12] and what if u create the /home dir for the sabayon user? [18:13] well, I *think* users-admin would work but I think it would break Sabayon [18:13] Sabyon uses a temporary home dir in /tmp [18:13] * nubae wonders what that would have changed from Hardy [18:14] it worked fine in Hardy with Sabayon installed? [18:14] yes [18:14] I remember adding users and making profiles [18:14] and it working [18:15] I think what happened is the gnome-system-tools-backends changed [18:15] ah, makes sense [18:15] so that it added in these checks [18:15] they probably were fixing a bug where people were creating users without /home dir :-) [18:16] but this is sort of a nasty bug [18:16] there are a lot of packages, not just Sabayon, that create users like this [18:16] ohhhhhhhh [18:17] * LaserJock has a thought [18:17] sabayon creates it's user as a regular user, not a system user [18:17] I bet users-admin on checks for a home dir for non-system users [18:17] *only [18:22] I wonder if anybody uses sabayon in Debian, it's only got 1 open bug [18:23] interesting. i could no longer use users/admin so i simply did a backup and re-install of the os after installing sabyon [18:23] yikes! [18:23] *shrugs*, it worked [18:23] yeah, I reinstall a lot [18:24] I think I'm about the worst of the dev ;-) [18:24] *devs [18:24] I know one guy hasn't installed fresh since like Red Hat 6 or something [18:24] ... and he's running Ubuntu Hardy or newer [18:25] nubae: i'm getting ready to tackle the inet problem if you have time today [18:27] yeah sure, go for it [18:27] paste me /opt/ltsp/fati386/etc/network/interfaces [18:28] so I think if we got a list of "things" we wan to be able to in user management then we can figure out what app(s) are going to be the best to look at [18:29] I think sabayon is too complex to maintain unless you have some people who can spend some serious time on it [18:31] whatcha mean exactly? [18:32] nubae: what did you want pasted? [18:33] nubae: did you mean me? [18:34] LaserJock: yeah [18:34] nubae: well, it seems quite fragile [18:34] Ahmuck ^^ [18:34] it's trying to track *ever* change made to a desktop [18:34] u know i was thinking about the sabyon vs python thingy. being a non programmer it i guess it really doesn't matter. i've heard various things about python that were always positive. i guess from my pov, waiting is the hardest thing, and if someone is volunteering to do it in python and the other application is not being maintained i'm always the person to choose the most eficiant route,... [18:34] ...which is usually the shortest [18:35] and these days there is a lot that's going on [18:35] ah ok, gotcha, so limit what it does? [18:36] well, I'm not sure [18:36] nubae: what language is your script written in ? [18:36] C [18:36] I wonder if it's just not a great overall idea right now [18:36] no :-) bash [18:37] LaserJock: it is [18:37] http://pastebin.be/15745 [18:37] * nubae can't code C to save his life... no patience [18:37] I'm not sure that deployable profiles is really something that Linux can do [18:37] i understand the script, and will prolly customize the apps to my own need [18:38] is there anyway to "link"the system apps with the fat client? [18:38] deployable profiles ? [18:38] that would be like using local-apps [18:38] * Ahmuck-Jr used to code C++ [18:38] 20 years ago [18:38] k, not quite that long [18:38] Sabayon is used to deploy "profiles" [18:39] more like 12 years ago [18:39] Ahmuck-Jr: paste me your ifconfig output [18:39] on the from the server [18:39] I'm just not sure if that's something that Linux/Gnome is going to be able to do very well for the foreseeable future [18:40] well if they stopped thinking about it as being a single user system, then sure [18:40] but I think you're right [18:40] http://pastebin.be/15746 [18:40] well that looks fine, so must be dns not getting through to the thin client [18:41] u got this in /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf?: option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.254; [18:41] Even if sabayon worked, I'm not sure I'd want to use it. I'd prefer a tool that would let me specify the changes I want, instead of tracking any change I (even accidentally) made. [18:41] [18:41] do i need to add dns servers to the network [18:42] alkisg: you can manage the changes [18:42] if you want to be able resolve web pages, then yes [18:42] yeah, it just shouldnt track everything, is there an easy way to limit that LaserJock, or is it loads a work? [18:42] LaserJock, inside a 10k-line file? (if I recall correctly the number you've said above) [18:43] nubae: there is some, you can choose what to track and what not to basically [18:44] alkisg: no, that's the source code. The GUI lets you look at changes and tell it to lock/ignore them [18:44] but the problem is that it has to track everything in the first place, to then give you a choice :-) [18:44] http://pastebin.be/15747 [18:44] would limit crashes too [18:44] pessulus is great, but it's limited to locking down things in gconf [18:45] if it just did what we know it can without crashign, thats a very good start [18:45] sabayon was designed to let you work with almost anything [18:45] what is the purpose of tracking every change? [18:45] it has some support for Firefox and OO.o was planned [18:45] LaserJock: so if I want to set a specific bookmark for all users with sabayon, you think I'll be able to do it somewhat easily? [18:46] alkisg: yes, if sabayon is working [18:46] :-) [18:46] nubae: no, i meant external dns servers. i'm thinking about going with OpenDNS [18:46] but i can add that in the file easlily [18:46] the purpose of tracking everything is to create a complete "profile" [18:46] oh Ahmuck your server is set to 192.168.0.1 in there [18:46] how does it even work? [18:46] with sabayon basically you create a profile of what you want the desktop to look like [18:46] its set as 0.254 when u do ifconfig [18:47] then when the user logs in basically they're /home dir is replaced with the "profile" [18:47] inet --> router --> server --> switch --> client [18:47] if thats your live dhcpd.conf file, it shouldnt work at all [18:47] works great on regualar thin clients [18:47] in my script, and on the server, its set to 192.168.0.254 [18:47] like i said, if it can break, i can break it and if it shouldn't work, it works :) [18:47] yet in the dhcpd.conf file its set to 192.168.0.1 [18:48] ah, so i need to change it [18:48] * nubae scratches his head [18:48] or ur saying the fat client shouldn't even work? [18:48] right, but it shouldnt work at all [18:48] nubae, that's not the ltsp server, it's the dns server and the router, so it's working... [18:48] right [18:48] right same thing [18:48] No, in the dhcp offer the client gets server = .254 [18:49] So they boot fine, they just don't get correct dns/gateway addresses [18:49] wait.... his ifconfig shows his server has ip 0.254 [18:49] and his dhcpd.conf file shoes 0.1 [18:49] ohhh wauit [18:49] it's magic \o/ [18:49] u're right [18:49] That's what I'm saying. The dhcp server still sends server=.254 [18:49] sorry ... [18:49] ltsp-server isnt defined [18:50] If he enabled next-server, then it wouldn't boot [18:50] ok... ahmuck, change everything that is .1 to 0.254 :-) [18:50] right, thats what I expected [18:51] hmmm, and how are the thin clients getting inet then? [18:52] with a broken router and dns server [18:53] they are? [18:53] erm, that is, through the server or as fat clients? [18:54] no as thin clients they are, which is off [18:54] odd [18:54] Because if they work as thin clients, they don't need dns/gateway [18:54] oh, well I guess if its properly defined for server [18:54] They just connect to the server, and the server in turn uses it's own dns/gateway [18:54] yeap [18:54] mine dont work if I dont have proper router defined [18:54] but of course I use an external router [18:55] thin or fat? [18:55] to serve dhcp ? [18:55] both [18:55] thin should work, as long as they boot [18:55] yeah, true [18:56] yeah Ahmuck just change dhcpd.conf settings [19:01] is there a way to target a specific user with a specific fat client? [19:01] that's the next step [19:01] * Ahmuck booting fat client now [19:02] nubae: should your script have "peeked" at the default settings and copied ? [19:03] dhcpd.conf is editted manually by the admin on the server side [19:03] and the script just grabs whatever config details to connect from its side [19:03] Ahmuck: the way to set specific users is through mac:add:resses [19:05] fat client is still dead to the inet [19:06] i haven't yet sat down and played connect the dot [19:06] did u restart dhcpd3-server? [19:07] i restarted the server [19:07] before restarting the client? [19:07] yes. i did not start the client this morning until i had restarted the server [19:07] i'll restart the client again just to be sure [19:07] yes but when did u restart the server, just now? [19:08] yes [19:08] well, should actually be fine now, on the fatclient try pinging google.com [19:09] to make sure dns is working [19:09] unless u dont have a dns server running on the server, in which case, choose another address [19:10] does dns run on server by default? [19:10] iirc, it does [19:10] btw,i love edubuntu's icons [19:12] google is dead on the fat client [19:13] then its not resolving, paste me your /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf [19:14] Ahmuck-Jr, if I got this right, you're using 192.168.0.254 as a dns server in your dhcpd.conf, but you don't have bind installed in the ltsp server. [19:14] So you should either install bind or just change dhcpd.conf [19:14] much better explained :-) [19:14] and put whatever dns server your ltsp server has (cat /etc/resolv.conf on the server) [19:15] http://pastebin.be/15748 [19:15] alkisg: i'm using a default ltsp server [19:15] setup [19:15] k that looks fine, now do what alkisg says [19:15] by default bind is not installed [19:15] bind = dns server [19:15] outside of the modifications that nubae has had me make for the fat client setup [19:15] ah. should that be part of your fat client setup? [19:15] no :-) [19:16] bind is already installed [19:16] Also, you have a 2 nic server, right? [19:16] yes [19:16] And the clients are only seeing your first nic [19:16] oh right gateway from one to the other [19:16] inet incoming on one, and thin clients on another [19:16] yeap, masquerading [19:16] the thin clients work fine [19:16] it's the fat clients that don't work [19:17] on the inet side. the fat clients boot fine, but no inet [19:17] right, imagine u had computers elsewhere on your nework though [19:17] fatclient is the same [19:17] You need gateway & dns on the fat clients (= put them in dhcpd.conf), and to enable ip forwarding on the server [19:17] ok. i wondered about that [19:17] myself [19:18] all this shoudl normally be already set up on standard 2 nic server [19:18] An external dns server? [19:18] any dns server [19:18] I don't think dhcp3.conf gets any dns server [19:18] it gets 0.1 as default [19:19] But bind isn't installed by default [19:19] yeah I know... but what I'm saying is, this is server stuff... the fatclient script shouldnt be setting server variables [19:19] Sure, that's correct [19:20] its assumed that u have either installed bind, or u use another dns server [19:20] But Ahmuck-Jr still has to fix dhcpd.conf [19:20] yeah [19:20] but he says he has bind installed [19:21] So Ahmuck change this: option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.254 to whatever dns your server uses (cat /etc/resolv.conf on the server) [19:21] And you'll also need to enable ip forwarding on the server [19:21] one shouldn't really need that, I think enabling gateway address for the internal nic should work [19:22] I don't think so, the packets won't be passed to the other nic if he doesn't enable ip forwarding [19:23] (for the fat clients again, the thin should work without any of these stuff) [19:23] well, there is still a slight difference between fatclient and real fatclient [19:25] but to be honest, I'v not looked at the script in a while, so your're probably right [19:25] I don't know about that, it's your field! :) [19:25] I'm talking about this: [19:25] sudo su [19:25] iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -j MASQUERADE [19:25] echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward [19:25] exit [19:25] right I know, I remember not having to do that [19:25] OK, back to pascal programming... :( [19:26] :-) [19:49] still no connection [19:50] i'll have to sit down and connect the dots so to speak to see what's going on [19:52] u masqueraded? [19:52] yes, i did get my masquarde mask on. i think it looks fashionalbe :) [19:53] yes, i did [19:53] that waht alkisg posted [19:53] i'm a little confused [19:53] https://wiki.edubuntu.org/ThinClientHowtoNAT [19:56] k, i don't recall having to do this for the thin client setup. it just worked, or sorta. i did have to set one address to dhcp iirc [19:57] right this is needed only if you are running external clients, which fatclient kinda is [19:58] actually paste me /opt/ltsp/fati386/etc/resolv.conf please [20:04] http://pastebin.be/15749 [20:05] http://pastebin.be/15750 === hfsdo_ is now known as hfsdo [20:06] http://pastebin.be/15751 [20:06] sorry for all the names, i have to walk from my office to the classroom [20:06] k its detecting your nameserver as 192.168.40.40 [20:07] er, nic names [20:07] so put that in dhcpd.conf [20:07] 192.168.40.40 is a tomato router [20:07] it's there [20:07] ah, it's there as the gateway [20:07] right [20:07] so set it as dns server in your dhcpd.conf and u should see it working [20:08] so delete the gateway and set it to be the dns server [20:08] no no [20:08] just in dhcpd.conf [20:08] edit the current option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.254; [20:08] ok [20:08] sudo start dhcp3 [20:08] and then restart dhcp3-server [20:09] Ahmuck-Jr: your interfaces file is wrong [20:09] gateway 192.168.40.40 [20:09] The gateway can't be on a different subnet [20:09] So you should delete this line, eth0 will be used when a gateway is needed [20:10] yeah gateway will be automatic [20:18] nope [20:19] Ahmuck-Jr: can you ping eth0 from a fat client? [20:25] i can ping the incoming nick as well as the thin client nic [20:26] why would i see an eth38 ? [20:27] i cannot however ping 192.168.40.40 from the client [20:27] which is the router [20:27] So you ip forwarding doesn't really work [20:29] Where do you see an eth38? [20:30] ifconfig [20:30] on the server? [20:30] http://pastebin.be/15752 [20:30] cat /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules [20:31] and pastebin it [20:31] http://pastebin.be/15753 [20:32] Eeeek!!! nubae, does this have anything to do with the fat client setup? [20:32] This file should only have your 2 nics.. [20:33] yes, well i was taken aback when i saw the file as i thought it was odd as well [20:33] i do have virtual box installed here, but iirc, it's self contained [20:34] Yes, vbox doesn't have anything to do with this file [20:36] no [20:36] fatclient doesnt touch that [20:36] So, Ahmuck, better start with this one! :) Leave only your two interfaces!!! [20:36] reboot is needed, though [20:37] where are all those interfaces coming from? [20:37] And you could rename eth38 to eth1, it would make much more sense [20:37] eth0 [20:37] his eth1 is the thin client one [20:37] sorry, eth0 [20:37] Ahmuck: did you try 38 different NICs on the server?!!! [20:37] that is totally weird man [20:37] :-) [20:38] no, both nics are internal [20:38] ifconfig is handing out only 2 it seems [20:38]