[00:00] <LaserJock> pretty much people who work on whatever it is
[00:00] <nubae> I know, but that assumes they know ubuntu politics...
[00:00] <Ahmuck> seriosly LaserJock, just u and stgraber on edubuntu?
[00:00] <nubae> in the real world... they wouldnt call themselves a developer, so the word scares them... think of it as meaning hard core C programmer
[00:01] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: yep
[00:01] <LaserJock> nubae: contributor is probably better
[00:01] <LaserJock> but work == development
[00:01] <LaserJock> it's kind hard to get around
[00:02] <LaserJock> in any case
[00:02] <nubae> its just about the link
[00:02] <nubae> its like the devel lists...
[00:02] <nubae> most users wont subscribe to them
[00:02] <nubae> too scary
[00:02] <LaserJock> hmm
[00:03] <nubae> a sys admin wont call himself a dev
[00:03] <Ahmuck> actually, there are some apps out there that i think could be used as "partnership" apps
[00:03] <Ahmuck> like opera
[00:03] <nubae> and a sys admin would already be able to help alot with stuff
[00:03] <Ahmuck> which would "beef" up the app offering
[00:04] <LaserJock> opera is in the partner repo :-)
[00:04] <Ahmuck> some of which are pay apps.  ubuntu does this now
[00:04] <Ahmuck> iirc
[00:04] <nubae> that becomes a real political debate, free vs non-free
[00:05] <Ahmuck> *shrugs*.  ur looking for apps
[00:05] <nubae> nah the apps ARE there
[00:05] <nubae> lots and lots
[00:05] <Ahmuck> and honestly, with LUK soon it may not be a problem with wine
[00:05] <nubae> just needs careful assessing on how to put them into edubuntu
[00:05] <Ahmuck> edu apps that equal some of the windows apps:?
[00:05]  * Ahmuck needs to visit a toys r us soon
[00:06] <nubae> many of them, yes
[00:06] <Ahmuck> http://linuxappfinder.com/education
[00:06] <Ahmuck> i use this site a sort of a barometer, because i know they are selecting the "best" apps
[00:06] <Ahmuck> normally
[00:07] <Ahmuck> ri-li is a neat app that teaches constitutional laws
[00:07] <nubae> right we need something like that for edubuntu
[00:08] <Ahmuck> it's there in the repositories
[00:08] <Ahmuck> it's a quirky little game asks you questions about amendments(?) when your done with a level
[00:08] <Ahmuck> kids learn via games, sound, etc.
[00:09] <Ahmuck> word association
[00:09] <nubae> nah I mean putting all the 'best' apps up like a barometer
[00:10] <Ahmuck> so what constitutes best apps?
[00:10] <nubae> just wondering, who manages the multiverse repo?
[00:10]  * Ahmuck and another irc member disagreed on this the other day
[00:10] <nubae> well, apps that work and are effective for the task they are supposed to do
[00:11] <Ahmuck> actually, let me re-phrase that.  who should be the rating individuals to rate "best apps" ?
[00:11] <Ahmuck> the individuals who rate what is considered "the best app"?
[00:11] <nubae> well either the edubuntu team
[00:11] <nubae> or everyone
[00:12] <Ahmuck> how about students and educators
[00:12] <Ahmuck> ever seen the novell usablity testing guidelines?
[00:12] <nubae> yeah that would everyone who uses it
[00:12] <Ahmuck> they did a wonderful job in usablity testing
[00:13] <Ahmuck> we have that capablility here, and have been doing some of it.  it's interesting, because what were finding out is the apps we would consider "kool" are not the same ones we've been selecting
[00:13] <Ahmuck> and the apps we thought would teach are not the same ones that are doing the job etc.
[00:14] <LaserJock> nubae: MOTU maintain Multiverse
[00:14] <nubae> yeah I guess it helps to have a student and teacher body to select what makes something usable or not
[00:15] <LaserJock> we've wanted for a long time to get a good feedback mechanism for picking which educational apps go in Main
[00:19] <LaserJock> we wanted an app review/list/rating engine
[00:19] <Ahmuck> we have a video team here that might be able to assist.  it might be interesting to load the list with some apps and find out.  recently i was trying to get people to try scribus and was running into a lot of resistance becaue it was not "indesing" or "photoshop" or "etc. (insert main stream app here).  however, demoing the app peaked the curositiy of and adult and student, and now the student is looking at a full multimedia linux production box
[00:20] <LaserJock> but as always, the problem is not in dreaming the idea, but implementing it ;-)
[00:20] <nubae> :-)
[00:20] <LaserJock> baby steps
[00:21] <LaserJock> I would really love to see a testing team take off
[00:21] <LaserJock> that's something that should be fairly easy for people to do
[00:21] <nubae> list it in strategy doc
[00:22]  * LaserJock starts to get the feeling that nubae wants him to work on something ... :-)
[00:23] <Ahmuck> our test lab will have full cameras in it.  i'd be willing to do some testing, though i rely on volunteers to do so and you know how volunteering goes
[00:24] <nubae> well, its an example of a task, and a person that is kinda volunteering for that task, Ahmuck :-)=
[00:24] <nubae> so might as well write it down :p
[00:25] <Ahmuck> exactly, true development doesn't happen all on the dev side
[00:25] <Ahmuck> if it did, we would all still be in text land :)
[00:28] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: could you perhaps find out if you could get some volunteers?
[00:29] <Ahmuck> volunteer to sit down and test?  we have them
[00:29] <Ahmuck> i don't know if they would be willing to be video taped
[00:29] <Ahmuck> it's interesting to sit down and watch people use programs
[00:29] <LaserJock> yes
[00:29] <Ahmuck> you learn alot about "whats expected", etc.
[00:32] <Ahmuck> gimp did something a while back, and they made some small changes in the "crop" tool after some testing and some developement, and it is by far the best "crop" tool out there.  you have large areas to drag the box with, not trying to hit the edges of the box
[00:32] <Ahmuck> it's these types of changes that make one app stand out from the others
[00:33] <LaserJock> so we need to have a list of things to test
[00:33] <nubae> another document :p
[00:34] <LaserJock> a lot of this stuff should *so* be on the mailing lists
[00:36] <freetown> what did i miss?
[00:36] <freetown> what did i miss?
[00:37] <nubae> what mailing list :p
[00:38] <nubae> havent seen traffic on it in months
[00:38] <LaserJock> then let's get it going
[00:38] <freetown> you mean significant traffic >:P
[00:39] <LaserJock> the problem is we can sit here and chat for hours
[00:39] <LaserJock> but the audience is quite small
[00:40] <nubae> yeah I know... thing is here u get a feeling it you're talking to someone, the list often is in one ear out the other
[00:40] <nubae> instant gratification :-)
[01:07] <nubae> is xsane not in main?
[01:14] <LaserJock> I think it is
[01:15] <nubae> shouldn't it be part of edubuntu... I mean scanning is quite important for schools
[01:17] <stgraber> nubae: it's in main and AFAIK part of the standard Ubuntu desktop
[01:18] <nubae> oh, maybe thats new, and I never noticed
[01:18] <LaserJock> I think it's been that way for years
[01:19] <nubae> I've been upgrading for years, so I wouldnt have noticed :-)
[01:20] <stgraber> according to rmadison, xsane always was in main
[01:20] <stgraber> (at lest since dapper, don't have the history before that)
[01:20] <stgraber> *least
[01:22] <nubae> weird...
[01:41] <nubae> right calling it a night... laters...
[01:46] <andresmujica> hi
[01:46] <andresmujica> what do you think about an edubuntu server for about 10 thin clients
[01:47] <andresmujica> but the edubuntu server would be a domU or guest host in a xen enviroment?
[01:48] <Ahmuck> a domU ?
[01:54] <andresmujica> a guest host
[02:19] <Ahmuck> has linux become bloated?
[02:51] <freetown> Ahmuck, nope...it just tries to run on top of a xen kernel
[02:51] <freetown> so hurray for a native solution: kvm
[02:52] <freetown> but yeah, xen support is bloat imnsho
[16:44] <nubae> http://www.edubuntu.org/applications/8.10
[17:00] <alkisg> nubae: "You are not authorized to access this page."
[17:01] <nubae> huh, really?
[17:01] <nubae> try now
[17:02] <alkisg> nubae: the same, "Access denied"
[17:03] <alkisg> oh, now it's ok
[17:03] <nubae> yeah forgot to hit publish
[17:03] <nubae> have look through see if it looks ok
[17:03] <alkisg> Grrr... it took me some hours to write this in Greek, it would be much easier for me if you did this a month ago! :P :D
[17:03] <alkisg> (thanks!)
[17:04] <nubae> grin, I have another list of the non-supported apps too
[17:04] <alkisg> non-supported? why would you want this list?
[17:04] <nubae> which is what I was working on for weeks, until Laserjock explained exactly that edubuntu is only the apps in main
[17:04] <alkisg> ...such as?
[17:08] <nubae> well if u go to add/remove and look under education
[17:08] <nubae> there is tons of stuff
[17:09] <alkisg> Ah, I see. Yeah, that's not part of edubuntu.
[17:10] <alkisg> Good job... Did you do all this manually, or did you also use any script?
[17:10] <nubae> well, semi-manually
[17:10] <nubae> copied and pasted from package details
[17:11] <nubae> but to get it looking decent had to lay it up in dreamweaver
[17:11] <nubae> I still think we should have a section that shows recommended edu apps
[17:11] <alkisg> Pitty there's isn't a Linux version of dreamweaver
[17:11] <nubae> that are universe or multiverse
[17:11] <nubae> well I use wine
[17:11] <nubae> works perfectl
[17:12] <alkisg> Oh, that's interesting! :)
[17:12] <nubae> yeah dreamweaver 8
[17:12] <nubae> installs and runs flawlessly
[17:12] <alkisg> Why not any later version? They have problems?
[17:13] <nubae> well, later version u need to copy the dir from windows to linux partition
[17:13] <nubae> and I dont run windows at all anymore
[17:13] <alkisg> Ah... still no problem
[17:13] <nubae> yeah latest versions run without problems
[17:13] <nubae> but cant install them
[17:13] <nubae> need to install on windows, then move across
[17:14] <alkisg> I only run Windows to copy movies for my kids, but I'll make another exception for DreamWeaver! :P
[17:14] <nubae> hehe
[17:15] <nubae> u think we should have rating and click-install on website?
[17:15] <alkisg> Click install not necessarily, but it would be nice if they were actual <a href's> instead of simple text
[17:15] <alkisg> ...also the icons would show better if they were larger,
[17:15] <nubae> for links to homepages
[17:16] <alkisg> Yes, e.g.  http://live.gnome.org/Dia for Dia isn't an actual hyperlink
[17:16] <nubae> yeah, but thats their size... in the packages... If I enlarge it will be out of res.
[17:16] <nubae> k... that should be pretty easy
[17:16] <alkisg> I guess you could use the icons from /usr/share/icons, but it'll take some minutes
[17:17] <nubae> those are the ones I'm using
[17:17] <nubae> 32x32
[17:18] <nubae> there is 48x48, but not all apps have those
[17:19] <nubae> actually only Ooo has 48x48
[17:19] <alkisg> I thought all the kde apps had 128x128 and most gnome ones had svg..
[17:19] <nubae> unless I convert them all from svg
[17:20] <nubae> svg wont work on the web directly, that would  a lot of work...
[17:20] <alkisg> Nah, a script could do it quickly
[17:20] <alkisg> imagemagick loads svg fine if I remember correctly
[17:20] <nubae> well, one would have to write something to scale, then convert
[17:20] <nubae> probably easier with inkscape
[17:21] <nubae> but imagemagick should do it
[17:21] <alkisg> It's a one-liner with imagemagick, I think I did something like that some months ago
[17:21] <nubae> the problem is, then I have to reupload every image, one by one
[17:21] <nubae> I dont have access to the ftp server, just upload via drupal
[17:21] <alkisg> Ouch... that's a major problem! :)
[17:22] <alkisg> I wish I knew curl or something to automate such tasks
[17:22] <nubae> well, the ideal would be a database of the apps.... but again, no access to the server
[17:23] <nubae> screenshots would be nice too I suppose
[17:23] <alkisg> even some appropriately structured text-based files would do, but again, no access
[17:23] <nubae> :-)
[17:31] <Ahmuck> i'd like to see anki in edubuntu
[17:31] <Ahmuck> http://ichi2.net/anki/download/index.html
[17:32] <nubae> and I celestia
[17:32] <nubae> googleearth wouldnt be bad in there either
[17:33] <nubae> we have  flash card programs in edubuntu already, are they not as good?
[17:33] <Ahmuck> i'd like to see a pay app section
[17:34] <Ahmuck> in your list
[17:34] <Ahmuck> there are some pay apps that work well, some which are windows and others which are linux
[17:34] <nubae> right now, edubuntu cannot carry pay apps... it cannot even carry anything outside whats officially supported by canonical
[17:34] <Ahmuck> i really think the linux communinty needs to get behind the linux app programs pay or not
[17:35] <Ahmuck> so, need to make a sepearte link on the web for a master list?
[17:35] <nubae> If I am allowed to, that would be great
[17:35] <Ahmuck> see, i don't understand why edubuntu can't have pay apps.  they have prop nvidia drives don't they ?
[17:35] <nubae> I have to speak to the powers that be first
[17:35] <nubae> speaking of...
[17:35] <nubae> :-)
[17:35] <LaserJock> uh oh
[17:36] <nubae> http://www.edubuntu.org/applications/8.10
[17:36] <nubae> thats intrepid's current list...
[17:36] <LaserJock> nubae I love you!
[17:36] <Ahmuck> kdenlive works well, is it on the list?
[17:37] <LaserJock> I don't think we ship kdenlive
[17:37] <nubae> what is khelpcenter by the way?
[17:37] <nubae> that was in the seed, but didnt include it
[17:37] <Ahmuck> it's to bad edubuntu isn't kde based, as they appear to be more involved in edu
[17:37] <LaserJock> khelpcenter is the KDE help ... center
[17:37] <nubae> everything in kde-edu is in edubuntu
[17:38] <LaserJock> it's a real toss up really between KDE and Gnome
[17:38] <LaserJock> there's gcompris on the Gnome side, for instance
[17:39] <nubae> Ahmuck asked me if we could make another list that has the apps which are not supported but recommended on website
[17:39] <nubae> I have a lot of these already done from add/remove
[17:40] <LaserJock> I think the wiki may be a better place to do that
[17:40] <nubae> yeah maybe... true
[17:40] <nubae> also... should there be a click-to-install link for the apps, or not?
[17:40] <nubae> and screenshot?
[17:40] <nubae> rating?
[17:41] <LaserJock> I don't think yet
[17:41] <LaserJock> I have to think a sec about the click-to-install
[17:41] <LaserJock> it would be fine if you're on the page for the release you are running
[17:42] <nubae> well, I think we should really retire the page when the new release comes out
[17:42] <LaserJock> but there are going to be some differences between releases and I wonder if that would cause confusion/problems
[17:42] <nubae> no?
[17:42] <LaserJock> no, we need historical lists
[17:42] <nubae> we can link to the old page somewhere for those users
[17:43] <nubae> but the more links, the more confusing, I agree...
[17:43] <LaserJock> I think if we had a edubuntu.org/applications page that was an overview
[17:43] <LaserJock> that then linked to the individual release pages
[17:43] <LaserJock> I just don't want people thinking they are upgrading by clicking on the apt-url link on a newer page
[17:44] <nubae> yeah we have to make it clear that that is for the CURRENT distro...
[17:44] <nubae> maybe keep the install-on-click off then
[17:45] <LaserJock> but I think we should linkify the homepages
[17:45] <nubae> ??
[17:45] <LaserJock> the Homepage: URLs are links
[17:46] <LaserJock> aren't
[17:46] <nubae> oh right, yeah
[17:46] <nubae> doing that now
[17:46] <LaserJock> we *could* link to the packages.ubuntu.com entry
[17:46] <LaserJock> but for now I think this is an *excellent* start
[17:46] <nubae> yep... which would require a little intellegence to click and install
[17:46] <LaserJock> I'm very pleased
[17:47] <nubae> edubuntu.org feels a little more complete now...
[17:48] <LaserJock> ok, so now we need 8.04
[17:48] <LaserJock> that should be mostly a copy-n-paste
[17:48] <nubae> yeah, I'll check the seed
[17:49] <nubae> so when  have 8.04, I'll seperate the applications page to show an intro explaining about the desktop and artwork packages briefly, and showing the distro list links
[17:50] <nubae> btw, I have a desktop for jaunty for u to look at... whats u're email?
[17:51] <LaserJock> laserjock@ubuntu.com
[17:52] <nubae> sent, tell me what u think
[17:53] <LaserJock> lol
[17:54]  * nubae has too much time on his hands
[17:54] <LaserJock> that's rather funny
[17:56] <Ahmuck> is there no way to "query" the distro?
[17:56] <Ahmuck> er, release
[17:56] <LaserJock> I guess since we don't have to worry about .iso size anymore we could include more artwork
[17:57] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: like you want to find what release somebody is running?
[17:57] <Ahmuck> yes
[17:57] <LaserJock> cat /etc/lsb-release
[18:01] <Ahmuck> can you do that from the web page
[18:01] <Ahmuck> query the release and then point to that release page?
[18:01] <Ahmuck> actually, this is possible via the browser iirc
[18:01] <LaserJock> yeah
[18:01] <LaserJock> I think that's the usual way
[18:06] <Ahmuck> k, i'm up for the challenge of fixing my multiple nics and getting the fat clients to work
[18:06] <nubae> linkified...
[18:09] <nubae> well first remove every eth except eth0 and eth1 in your /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
[18:18] <LaserJock> is 18:00 UTC an ok time for a meeting?
[18:20] <Ahmuck> sure
[18:20] <Ahmuck> what is 1800 UTC ?
[18:20] <nubae> universal time
[18:20] <Ahmuck> is there a UTC chart i can view
[18:20] <nubae> let, me check what that is in Euro time...
[18:20] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: where are you?
[18:20] <LaserJock> CST?
[18:21] <LaserJock> depending on where in Europe you add 1 or 2 hours
[18:22] <Ahmuck> usa
[18:22] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: ah, what time zone?
[18:22] <nubae> yeah 1 for me
[18:22] <Ahmuck> central
[18:23] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: then you are UTC -6
[18:23] <LaserJock> so it would be noon
[18:24] <LaserJock> how's https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda look for a start of an agenda?
[18:25] <nubae> yah kool
[18:25] <Ahmuck-Jr> # PCI device 0x11ab:0x4320 (skge)
[18:25] <Ahmuck-Jr> # PCI device 0x10de:0x0057 (forcedeth)
[18:25] <Ahmuck-Jr> k, what is the difference between forcedeth and skge ?
[18:26] <Ahmuck-Jr> ah, nm
[18:26] <Ahmuck-Jr> one is the nvidia (forcedeth) and the other is the other nic
[18:26] <nubae> yeah and the nvidia driver is kaput
[18:27] <Ahmuck-Jr> k, that's done
[18:27] <Ahmuck-Jr> now what?
[18:27] <nubae> u have only 2 entries in there now?
[18:27] <Ahmuck> yes
[18:27] <nubae> make sure your mac address corresponds correctly
[18:33] <Ahmuck-Jr> k
[18:42] <Ahmuck-Jr> er, done
[18:55] <nubae> well I have to get going... new year's and all... so have a good one
[18:56] <alkisg> Happy new year nubae - and everyone
[18:56] <Ahmuck> yes, happy new years
[19:29]  * LaserJock generates more bugmail spam :-)
[21:31] <penguinhunters> Gotta question...  Using ltsp for the first time with edubuntu 8.10... We are configuring it for a private school.  I have the server the way I want it... When booting from the thin client it will pull up the graphical login screen, I can log in but after it recognizes my credentials, it black screens and locks up... I have asked in #ltsp but no response... Any ideas?
[22:43] <Eeyore-Jr> anybody up today ?
[22:46] <HedgeMage> I'm semi-here
[22:55] <Eeyore-Jr> used digtal vidoe on linux?
[22:56] <Eeyore-Jr> kdenlive or kino or openmovie editor
[22:56] <Eeyore-Jr> i'm getting an error when i try to capture.  something about 1394 kernal module not being loaded
[22:59] <Eeyore-Jr> nm, it looks like 8.10 solves that.  i'm on kde 8.04.1
[22:59] <Eeyore-Jr> i'll need to install xubuntu on this pc to get it to work propelr or open box
[23:16] <HedgeMage> Sorry, I've not tried any of that.