[04:41] <nothingman> hey, nubae!
[11:51] <highvoltage> hey bddebian
[13:48] <bddebian> Hi highvoltage
[14:42] <ianfdlrs> Can someone answer a question for me?
[17:19] <LaserJock> mmorning all
[17:27] <Ahmuck> gooooood morning
[17:42] <nubae> hey peeps
[17:56] <LaserJock> man, 2009 already
[18:07] <Ahmuck> good morning nubae
[18:07] <Ahmuck> good morn LaserJock
[18:15] <Ahmuck> nubae: going to try your fat client setup this afternoon on a blank vm
[19:12] <LaserJock> shesh, it's really raining here
[19:14] <Ahmuck> where is here?
[19:15] <LaserJock> Nevada
[19:15] <LaserJock> we hardly get any precipitation here
[19:15] <LaserJock> I totally wasn't prepared for rain and got soaked on the walk from my car to school
[19:27] <Ahmuck> ur a student?
[19:27] <Ahmuck> at a college
[19:29] <LaserJock> yep
[19:30] <LaserJock> I've been a student for a long long time :-)
[19:52] <Ahmuck> is SDL a problem only on ltsp or is a problem on ubuntu 8.10 as well?
[19:54] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: I think it must be LTSP-only
[19:59] <nubae> yeah ltsp only
[19:59] <nubae> its due to multiple users
[20:00] <nubae> LaserJock: did u ever manage to set up the ltsp network at your uni?
[20:00] <LaserJock> nubae: I haven't yet no, don't know if I will get to
[20:08] <Ahmuck> is anybody working on wine?
[20:09] <LaserJock> depends on what you mean by working on wine
[20:10] <LaserJock> there is a guy in Ubuntu that maintains wine
[20:10] <LaserJock> but do you mean specifically for edu stuff?
[20:10] <nubae> maybe he means when is it going into main
[20:10] <LaserJock> nubae: so do we know what all apps have this SDL problem? right now bug #269082 just has tux*
[20:11] <nubae> would u like me to list them some place?
[20:11] <LaserJock> well, is it more than tux* ?
[20:11] <nubae> SDL drives 50% of edu and games linux apps
[20:12] <nubae> so yes
[20:12] <alkisg> Super Mario Chronicles (SDL) also gives 1 frame per ...minute in LTSP
[20:12] <LaserJock> have you talked with LTSP at all about it?
[20:12] <LaserJock> I assume some anyway
[20:12] <nubae> well, its not an LTSP issue, its an SDL multi-user issue
[20:12] <nubae> it needs to be fixed on the SDL side
[20:12] <LaserJock> right
[20:13] <alkisg> nubae, multi user? I couldn't work smc even with 1 user...
[20:13] <nubae> but yes, ltsp folks are very aware of the issue... the trick right now is to switch sound off... but that is not a solution
[20:13] <alkisg> Not even with plain ssh -Y
[20:13] <LaserJock> but LTSP is sort of the leverage community here
[20:13] <nubae> alkisg: right, some apps are more messed up than others
[20:14] <nubae> well, take a look at the bug report.. it couldn't be more complete I dont think
[20:14] <LaserJock> so essentially we need a bug for each app we want to get fixed
[20:14] <nubae> well, if that would help :-)
[20:15] <nubae> I've got no deployments at the moment, but when I do, I'll certainly start bugging people about it again...
[20:19] <LaserJock> well, I wonder if the problem is in SDL or how the apps use SDL
[20:19] <LaserJock> as in, is there something in our SDL that is causing problems
[20:20] <nubae> it is definitly in SDL, as it happens across apps
[20:21] <LaserJock> do we know if it happens the same in Debian?
[20:22] <nubae> in the tux apps, at least, if you run them with sound=off everything works fine
[20:22] <LaserJock> I wonder if Skolelinux people have complained
[20:22] <LaserJock> right, but you get no sound either
[20:22] <nubae> I wondered about this too, since I seemed to be the first one to file a bug against it... but hey...
[20:22] <nubae> yeah, just pin pointing the problem
[20:23] <nubae> something to do with ltsp's use of pulse
[20:23] <LaserJock> right, so does that then come around to it being a LTSP problem?
[20:23] <nubae> I think it might be valuable to test the officially supported SDL driven apps in edubuntu
[20:24] <nubae> no, because SDL should run fine with pulse
[20:24] <nubae> ltsp is not the only project using that
[20:24] <LaserJock> right, but I wonder if it's a LTSP+pulse problem and not just pulse
[20:25] <LaserJock> I haven't seen any complaints about SDL apps outside of LTSP people (though I haven't looked much)
[20:25] <nubae> well alkisg just mentioned that super mario chronicles won't work even with one user
[20:26] <LaserJock> well, that could just be that game, hard to tell
[20:26] <alkisg> I think there's a problem with refreshing in SDL, it happens too often for the network to cope with it
[20:26] <nubae> yeah or graphics card issues
[20:26] <nubae> ok, then I could test it with fat client
[20:27] <nubae> in theory it should be fine... I'll try running super mario chronicles locally
[20:32] <nubae> interesting that screem was picked above bluefish editor for a web dev app
[20:32] <nubae> I find screem to be quite buggy, its crashed on me more than once
[20:33] <LaserJock> yes
[20:33] <LaserJock> I'd like to replace it
[20:33] <LaserJock> at the time I believe screem was the better
[20:33] <nubae> ok, suppose a lot of this is legacy
[20:33] <nubae> well I would vote for bluefish
[20:34] <Ahmuck> wine multiuser
[20:35] <Ahmuck> smc
[20:35] <Ahmuck> SMC, but you can't SMC to work over a thin client can you?
[20:35] <LaserJock> our basic app selection from say 2 years ago or so, though we try to keep the edu-specific ones fairly updated
[20:35] <LaserJock> *is from
[20:35] <nubae> what is SMC Ahmuck?
[20:36] <LaserJock> it wasn't until recently that anybody complained about screem, so there wasn't a reason to change
[20:36] <nubae> LaserJock: so u pick one app for each area, or what?
[20:36] <nubae> probably no one uses it, as its a recommends :-)
[20:36] <Ahmuck> i've got the test deployment which if i can get fat clients working well, i'd be testing quite a few SDL games
[20:36] <LaserJock> yes, we try not duplicate
[20:36] <Ahmuck> my fat clients are 1Ghz, 512mb ram
[20:36] <LaserJock> 1 app per task, in general
[20:37] <nubae> yeah makes sense, though I really would add abiword
[20:37] <nubae> the main reason being it supports collaboration
[20:37] <nubae> and its fast, small and very stable
[20:37] <LaserJock> yeah, that's a hard one for sure
[20:37] <Ahmuck> oh, and 128mb vid cards
[20:38] <Ahmuck> why not use kompozer?
[20:38] <LaserJock> a lot of people prefer abiword/gnumeric over OO.o but Openoffice has the best chance of being sort of standard
[20:38] <Ahmuck> or quanta
[20:38] <LaserJock> I'm not sure what the state of kompozer is
[20:38] <nubae> LaserJock: I think they are different...
[20:38] <LaserJock> quanta is KDE2
[20:38] <LaserJock> KDE3 rather
[20:38] <nubae> think about what u do when u want to edit something quickly... u dont open OOo
[20:38] <Ahmuck> SMC is super mario chornicals.  it's been my test case for SDL
[20:39] <nubae> u go to notepad, or gedit or abiword
[20:39] <LaserJock> once quanta gets a KDE4 port I'll probably push that into edubuntu-desktop-kde
[20:39] <LaserJock> I don't use abiword, but that's just me ;-)
[20:39] <Ahmuck> i use a text editor, that "highlight"
[20:39] <nubae> I wouldn't compare abiword and OOo... the collaboration thing is a big part too
[20:39] <Ahmuck> it's been a long time however, but i'm sure i can find it
[20:39] <LaserJock> I open gedit (GUI), vim/emacs (terminal), and OOo (heavy word processing)
[20:39] <Ahmuck> abiword has collaboration?
[20:39] <LaserJock> yep
[20:40] <nubae> also, why is blender not in there?
[20:40] <Ahmuck> i don't like abiword because of it's compatiblity issues
[20:40] <Ahmuck> nubae: blender locked my machine on fat client
[20:40] <LaserJock> I think we dropped blender at some point because of space
[20:40] <nubae> Ahmuck: http://www.nubae.com/telepathy-empathy-and-collaboration
[20:40] <nubae> hmm interesting, never seen it lock up myself
[20:40] <LaserJock> we have gobby for collaborative editing
[20:41] <nubae> thats different
[20:41] <nubae> think about kids working on a stylised document together for some project
[20:41] <nubae> they cant use gobby
[20:41] <LaserJock> sure, I realize that
[20:41] <LaserJock> but Abiword has only had collaboration for a short time
[20:41] <nubae> gobby is a collaborative hacker/programmer tool
[20:42] <LaserJock> so we didn't have that reasoning
[20:42] <nubae> oh, I realise that, just talking about now for Jaunty
[20:42] <Ahmuck> oooh, collaboration ... were working on a communty drive happy publication here at our test lab.  would scribus do collaboration?
[20:42] <nubae> and blender can go back in cause there are no more space restrictions I take it
[20:43] <nubae> Ahmuck: not yet... but it will be very easy for devs to enable collaboration as its not integrated into gnome itself
[20:43] <Ahmuck> sooooo.  any chance of getting anki in edubuntu?
[20:43] <nubae> s/not/now
[20:43] <Ahmuck> i don't think there is a ubuntu packager for it currently
[20:43] <LaserJock> I think I saw anki
[20:43] <nubae> yeah its in there
[20:43] <Ahmuck> this collaboration happens over the lan or the wan?
[20:44] <nubae> anything
[20:44] <nubae> even across natted firewalls
[20:44] <nubae> on both ends
[20:44] <LaserJock> blender might not be easy to get back in
[20:44] <nubae> why?
[20:44] <LaserJock> abiword should be easy
[20:44] <LaserJock> because blender has been demoted to Universe
[20:45] <nubae> probably because its no longer in edubuntu :-)
[20:45] <LaserJock> yeah
[20:45] <LaserJock> I don't think Ubuntu was considering installing it by default
[20:45] <nubae> well its too niche
[20:45] <nubae> ubuntu studio has it though
[20:46] <Ahmuck> is there a way to turn ubuntu studio into a ltsp server?
[20:46] <nubae> but I guess ubuntu studio doesnt have the same rules as ed/k/ubuntu
[20:46] <Ahmuck> is that option there?
[20:46] <LaserJock> nubae: no, Ubuntu Studio is done in Universe
[20:46] <nubae> u can turn any buntu distro that uses teh same repos into ltsp
[20:46] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: you can do pretty much anything you want on an LTSP spever
[20:46] <LaserJock> *server
[20:46] <nubae> yeah, I think its a better approach, universe gives u more power
[20:47] <nubae> but you already know my opinion on this :p
[20:47] <LaserJock> in any case, blender would need to have some dependencies also promoted
[20:47] <Ahmuck> ubuntu studio would be pre-configured however turning it into a ready made journalism lab for yearbooks, etc.  though i'm not sure it would go well, as apple really has this market tied up
[20:47] <LaserJock> but given that it was already in Main at one point I don't know that it would be all that hard to get it in again
[20:48] <nubae> so whats required?
[20:52] <nubae> LaserJock: what I'm seeing with the apps from hardy to intrepid is name changes in the kde-edu area
[20:52] <nubae> that and thin client manager was still supported
[20:52] <LaserJock> yep
[20:52] <LaserJock> the KDE Edu stuff was KDE 3 -> KDE 4
[20:53] <nubae> ahhh, ok, makes sense
[20:53] <nubae> so u want me to list them with their old names for the hardy apps list?
[20:54] <LaserJock> yes
[20:54] <LaserJock> I want it to be accurate
[20:54] <nubae> ok
[20:54] <LaserJock> looks like for blender we also need: freealut,openal-soft, and ftgl
[20:55] <LaserJock> so that's 4 packages to get promoted
[20:55] <nubae> yeah, no idea what they are :-)
[20:56] <LaserJock> me neither, looks like just various libraries
[20:56] <nubae> btw, we are going to need abiword for sugar anyway
[20:56] <nubae> if thats still the plan
[20:56] <LaserJock> well
[20:56] <LaserJock> do you need all of abiword?
[20:56] <nubae> yes
[20:57] <LaserJock> really?
[20:57] <LaserJock> I would have though just abiword-common or something like that would be needed
[20:57] <nubae> there might be some depends not needed
[20:57] <stgraber> abiword is alreay in main anyway and we have enough space on the CD ?
[20:57] <nubae> no, we need actual abiword too
[20:58] <nubae> yeah cant be that big...
[20:58] <LaserJock> well, that's not so much the question
[20:59] <LaserJock> it's the duplication that might be an issue, though one I think we can work around
[21:02] <nubae> waht was denemo?
[21:02] <LaserJock> a musical score editing app
[21:03] <nubae> oh that fell out cause of dependencies IIRC
[21:03] <LaserJock> I'm pretty bummed out, it was our only music app
[21:03] <LaserJock> yeah
[21:03] <LaserJock> and it's pretty buggy
[21:03] <nubae> there was a nice little app for learning guitar riffs... tux guitar or something
[21:04] <Ahmuck> name changes?  u mean they are falling away from kname now?
[21:04] <LaserJock> no
[21:05] <LaserJock> but some KDE apps were dropped and some added going from KDE 3 to KDE 4
[21:05] <Ahmuck> ah
[21:05] <nubae> but yes, they did fall away from the k name
[21:05] <nubae> like parley, marble
[21:05] <Ahmuck> there are some nice music apps out there.  rosegarden, hydrogen, etc.
[21:05] <nubae> rosegarden would be a good one indeed
[21:05] <Ahmuck> though rosegarden can be tough to get running because of jack
[21:05] <nubae> very maintained, 4 star rated
[21:06] <LaserJock> it's pretty advanced though, isn't it?
[21:06] <nubae> yeah
[21:06] <nubae> almost pro
[21:07] <LaserJock> that's why Ubuntu Studio has it
[21:07] <nubae> jokosher is pretty neat, it is working on collaborative support, so people can make music across networks together
[21:07] <nubae> yep
[21:07] <LaserJock> yeah, I've been trying to get jokosher in forever
[21:08] <LaserJock> but jono said it wasn't ready when I was last trying (quite a while ago)
[21:09] <Ahmuck> i looked at jokosher this morning.  i would agree, if it's not buggy that needs to be there
[21:09] <Ahmuck> an app to watch, is kdenlive
[21:09] <LaserJock> I find that it's not all that hard to find educational software, but it's *very* difficult to find good educational software
[21:09] <Ahmuck> it works a lot like adobe movie production
[21:10] <Ahmuck> LaserJock: that's been my observation as well
[21:10] <LaserJock> it's the same for science software
[21:10] <LaserJock> and probably most niche stuff
[21:10] <nubae> yeah like 1000 people start a project, 100 continue them, and 10 perfect them
[21:11] <LaserJock> one thing that we can look at is Java apps
[21:11] <LaserJock> since we have a free Java now we can start reviewing Java apps for packaging/inclusion
[21:12] <nubae> we've got a problem there with ltsp though
[21:12] <nubae> or has it changed?
[21:12] <LaserJock> have no idea
[21:12] <LaserJock> I've never run LTSP and only know what I hear in here :-)
[21:12] <Ahmuck> o.O
[21:13] <Ahmuck> i've got short cables, and am running on a pretty standard "desktop" server.  it works, but i definately see the need for fat clients
[21:13] <Ahmuck> and SMC wouldn't even run
[21:13] <Ahmuck> anyhow, a gig network, and switch
[21:13] <Ahmuck> between the server and the client
[21:13] <Ahmuck> many schools will run cable runs over 300ft
[21:14] <nubae> LaserJock: u should really fix that... at least try it out on your home network
[21:14] <LaserJock> I suppose :-)
[21:14] <LaserJock> I just don't like networking
[21:14] <Ahmuck> which can be a problem.  so you have infrastructure upgrade, etc.  and many apps are multimedia apps, journalisim, publishing, etc.  it's a whole different mix than grade school apps
[21:15] <Ahmuck> it's farily easy.  buy a switch, buy some cables, hook up an old pc to a ltsp server
[21:15] <Ahmuck> ah, yes, or do it in a vm
[21:15] <LaserJock> I did buy a crossover cable and tried it on a ClassmatePC a long time ago
[21:15] <LaserJock> in Paris I think
[21:16] <LaserJock> but I just don't have any use for LTSP personally so I have a hard time getting motivated
[21:16] <Ahmuck> that reminds me.  i need to go and make me a crossover cable this afternooon
[21:16] <stgraber> hmm, I guess 99% of the code was rewritten since then :)
[21:16] <Ahmuck> aren't you the leader for edubuntu?
[21:16] <nubae> u work in a school, how can u not have a use for it?
[21:16] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: sorta
[21:16] <LaserJock> stgraber is the LTSP guy though
[21:17] <LaserJock> nubae: I'm a scientist, not an IT admin, etc.
[21:17] <nubae> right, that split is kinda silly, the 2 go together like ham and eggs :-)
[21:17] <LaserJock> I think it's a useful split
[21:17] <LaserJock> but I know what you mean
[21:17] <nubae> yeah, I kinda agree
[21:18] <nubae> but in most deployments, I'll bet you they are used together
[21:18] <nubae> but the focus is now better
[21:18] <LaserJock> people should be free to *not* use LTSP in educational settings or *to* use LTSP in non-educational settings
[21:18] <nubae> righto
[21:18] <LaserJock> however, certainly in schools it makes a lot of sense to use LTSP
[21:18] <nubae> which is why YOU should be running it :-)
[21:19] <LaserJock> well, I don't know that it makes a whole lot of difference
[21:19] <LaserJock> the one time I tried it, it worked just fine, no issues
[21:19] <Ahmuck> that's ok.  i run it and i'll be happy to give ou all user issues and complaints :)
[21:20] <nubae> but how can u test things like collaboration, central management, italc, etc
[21:20] <LaserJock> having 1 decent-spec'd client doesn't give you a good idea of how things run
[21:20] <Ahmuck> vm's
[21:20] <nubae> no right, u need a lab
[21:20] <nubae> but I'm sure u have access to that
[21:20] <nubae> actually u told me u had...
[21:20] <LaserJock> ... no
[21:21] <LaserJock> well, I kinda help out
[21:21] <nubae> yeah... so blow their socks off, install ltsp
[21:21] <LaserJock> but I don't run it, and hence don't get to decide whether to use LTSP or not
[21:21] <LaserJock> the problem is we have no server
[21:21] <Ahmuck> well, he'd have to do it with a test server
[21:21] <nubae> anything can be a server, it just needs a lot of ram
[21:21] <Ahmuck> i'm using a amd64 with 2g of ram for a test server
[21:22] <LaserJock> right, I think we only have machines with <= 512MB
[21:22] <nubae> so get some extra ram... it costs nothing these days
[21:22] <LaserJock> yeah, that is a possibility
[21:23] <LaserJock> but I've got bigger fish to fry
[21:23] <LaserJock> the computer have been there 1 semester and we still can't login
[21:23] <LaserJock> once we have usable machines we can discuss maintainability ;-)
[21:25] <nubae> but ltsp will fix the login problems
[21:26] <LaserJock> no, the problem is AD
[21:26] <LaserJock> we can't get Linux to authenticate
[21:27] <nubae> ah right, I remember...
[21:27] <nubae> well its not too hard, I've done that before... there's lots of documentation on the net
[21:28] <LaserJock> yeah, but it's 2 chemists trying to figure this out between teaching, research, and family
[21:28] <LaserJock> it's pretty slow ;-)
[21:28] <nubae> one of whom is the edubuntu lead ;-)
[21:28] <LaserJock> sure, but I know next to nothing about hardware/networking
[21:29] <LaserJock> I'm learning slowly but surely
[21:29] <nubae> funny, I never get that... In find coding/packaging to be sooo much harder than that stuff
[21:30] <LaserJock> well, it's what you do
[21:30] <LaserJock> I've never had to worry about hardware/networking
[21:30] <nubae> yeah guess we are creatures of habit
[21:30] <LaserJock> but I have had to write code and fix packages
[21:30] <LaserJock> I think networking in particular is way harder than packaging
[21:31] <nubae> no way :-) I think the opposite
[21:31] <LaserJock> I think I'm finally getting IPv6
[21:31] <LaserJock> but LDAP, AD, samba, etc. phew, blows me away
[21:31] <nubae> ip6 is over dramatised... its still not used
[21:32] <nubae> ldap, is simple as can be... the problem is every vendor uses their own standards
[21:32] <LaserJock> mostly I think it's because I have no practical experience with these things
[21:32] <nubae> AD is more or less LDAP
[21:32] <LaserJock> I've just always run single-user machines
[21:32] <LaserJock> and you just plug in an ethernet cable or get wifi and go
[21:33] <nubae> samba is very integrated into ubuntu now... I rarely have problems even across multiple oses (osx, vista, xp)
[21:34] <nubae> they did a really good job there
[21:34] <LaserJock> the problem I think we're having is just that we have a non-standard setup
[21:34] <nubae> sounds like it
[21:34] <LaserJock> if it wasn't for that I think we'd have AD working in nothing flat
[21:34] <nubae> otherwise it would just pretty much plugin
[21:35] <LaserJock> but it took us a lot of debugging to figure out why we can't get anything from the AD server
[21:35] <LaserJock> although Windows machines do it so there must be some way
[21:35] <nubae> well AD is not open
[21:36] <nubae> reverse engineering at its best for linux users
[21:36] <LaserJock> the problem is in the computer's name
[21:37] <LaserJock> because these computer are in the chemisty departement they have .chem. on them
[21:37] <LaserJock> and the AD server doesn't
[21:37] <nubae> ahhh right that would be a problem
[21:38] <nubae> so alias the domain
[21:38] <LaserJock> what would that mean?
[21:38] <nubae> give the .chem an alias to whatever the AD domain is
[21:39] <LaserJock> so if I have a computer, xyz.chem.unr.edu I would turn it into xyz.unr.edu?
[21:39] <mcohen> hi all, can anyone help me with a few questions, first-time edubuntu installer
[21:39] <nubae> well for example, in etc hosts u can give the alias something like chemistry.chem and chemistry.unr.edu
[21:40] <LaserJock> mcohen: just through out your question and we'll see if we can give an answer
[21:40] <mcohen> thanks
[21:40] <mcohen> I have an old Sony Vaio from the closet for the kids
[21:40] <nubae> this is used for other services too that require multiple domain aliases
[21:40] <LaserJock> *throw, geeze my english can be bad some days :-)
[21:40] <mcohen> I'm trying to figure out the minimum reqs, it has 128MB ram, Pentium III 750 MHz
[21:41] <LaserJock> mcohen: what would you like to do with it?
[21:41] <mcohen> but when I try to install ubuntu it throws me to a text shell
[21:41] <mcohen> it's just a pottering about/hopmework machine for my 11 yr old
[21:41] <nubae> mcohen: what ubuntu iso are u installing?
[21:41] <LaserJock> right yeah, Ubuntu needs currently ~ 300+ MB of RAM for the graphical installer
[21:41] <mcohen> I figured 8.10
[21:41] <nubae> -desktop?
[21:41] <mcohen> x86 architecture
[21:41] <mcohen> yes
[21:42] <mcohen> but I don't need the 'try before you buy' feature, I know ubuntu
[21:42] <LaserJock> I would think Xubuntu would be a better choice
[21:42] <mcohen> use kubuntu 8.10 on my work machine
[21:42] <nubae> when does it throw u to the desktop?
[21:43] <mcohen> I never get to a desktop, I tell it to install and it chugs, then pulls up a full screen shell
[21:43] <mcohen> xubuntu is a thinner distro?
[21:43] <nubae> yeah, but even gnome should do 128mb
[21:43] <LaserJock> "Once installed, Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM. "
[21:43] <mcohen> urgh, not much ram
[21:43] <mcohen> the machine has a strong processor for the ram it has though
[21:44] <nubae> yeah u are on the low end of ram, but it should work
[21:44] <LaserJock> but usually those are pretty "conservative" requirements
[21:44] <nubae> there were optimisations for ram in 8.10 iirc
[21:44] <nubae> u might be thrown out for another reason though, like graphics card
[21:45] <LaserJock> I would give Xubuntu 8.10 Alternate a try
[21:45] <litlebuda> mcohen, use the xubuntu alternate install cd
[21:45] <LaserJock> and if it's real bad maybe pick up some RAM, should be fairly cheap
[21:45] <mcohen> ok
[21:45] <nubae> yup try that, or enlightenment
[21:45] <mcohen> ram for the old Vaio models is unlikely to be cheap unfortunately
[21:46] <nubae> use them as thin clients??
[21:46] <mcohen> actually,t he thing originally had windows ME on it, and I don't have the recovery disks
[21:46] <LaserJock> or, right, was thinking desktop machine :(
[21:46] <mcohen> idiot me, I installed 2K on it without mirroring, no graphics drivers
[21:47] <mcohen> the default driver only tries 800x600, 16 colors, looked terrible (native LCD is 1024/768
[21:47] <mcohen> hoping for better luck with ubuntu
[21:47] <nubae> find out which graphics card u have
[21:48] <mcohen> it's very hard to tell, I think it's related to the savage S3
[21:48] <nubae> on linux, if u boot up a live cd, u can do lspci to find out
[21:48] <mcohen> but on these 8 yr old super-small laptops, specialised drivers may be needed
[21:48] <mcohen> will try that when I can boot
[21:48] <mcohen> cheers
[21:48] <nubae> try a livecd first actually
[21:49] <mcohen> isn't the ubuntu desktop iso also a livecd?
[21:49] <litlebuda> yes
[21:50] <mcohen> trying now
[21:52] <mcohen> doesn't load
[21:52] <nubae> LaserJock: why do u need your chem terminals to have .chem on the end?
[21:52] <mcohen> sends me to the BusyBox shell
[21:52] <nubae> why not use the actual domain?
[21:53] <nubae> mcohen: with what message?
[21:53] <litlebuda> mcohen, try the xubuntu alternate install cd
[21:53] <LaserJock> nubae: it's not at the end, it's xyz.chem.unr.edu
[21:53] <LaserJock> or is that what you meant?
[21:53] <mcohen> message was:
[21:53] <mcohen> "loading, please wait"
[21:54] <nubae> LaserJock: no, then its not a problem... alias them...
[21:54] <mcohen> BusyBox v1.10.2 ubuntu etc
[21:54] <mcohen> enter help for a list etc
[21:54] <mcohen> that's it
[21:54] <nubae> mcohen: something is breaking then... try xubuntu like the others said...
[21:54] <mcohen> righto, dling now
[21:55] <mcohen> will let you know how it goes when I try
[21:55] <litlebuda> mcohen, Minimum system requirements
[21:55] <litlebuda> You need 128 MB RAM to run the Live CD or 192 MB RAM to install. The Alternate Install CD only requires you to have 64 MB RAM at install time. To install Xubuntu, you need 1.5 GB of free space on your hard disk. Once installed, Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM.
[21:55] <nubae> LaserJock: for example, this is my entry in /etc/hosts: 192.168.0.254  homeserve.lan homeserve conference.homeserve schoolserver
[21:56] <nubae> that means homeserve.lan is the same as conference.homeserve.lan
[21:57] <mcohen> "Once installed, Xubuntu can run with 192 MB RAM, but it is strongly recommended to have at least 256 MB RAM" may be a problem
[21:58] <nubae> yah minimum went up, mcohen how many of these laptops u got? more than one?
[21:58] <litlebuda> mcohen, try it first you may be surprised
[21:59] <mcohen> just the one, found in a closet
[21:59] <mcohen> will try and see
[22:06] <Ahmuck> i just installed wine-doors.  would this work for wine?
[22:10] <Ahmuck> nubae: do u know if there is a way to run from the machine and use ltsp for login and /home only?
[22:58] <Ahmuck> is this channel edu safe?
[22:58] <Ahmuck> ie CIPA safe ?