kolby_There's not really any college classes to take for open source developers are there?00:00
Laneykolby_: Well it's more about getting stuck in than taking classes I suppose00:07
directhexLaney, IMHO that's the case with free software work generally00:40
Laneyright, that's what I meant00:40
directhexLaney, i didn't get my cushy linux sysadmin job, with root on a couple of million quid of kit, on the basis of stuff i learnt in classes. i got it on the basis of the linux mucking about i did instead of revising for exams! :)00:41
Laneytheory != practice00:42
directhexwell, yes. and so much of computing is a mix of both00:42
Laneykolby_: Pick a project, get your hands dirty :)00:42
directhexpurely practice and, well, you get the mess of people who answer linuxquestions or ubuntuforums posts with things involving --prefix=/00:42
directhexpurely theory, and you go nowhere fast either00:43
* Laney only knows theory ;)00:44
Laneysilly academia00:44
Laney"When was the last time you ran one of your programs?" is a joke in our lab :S00:44
kolby_what classes do you take?00:44
Laneynone - I'm doing a PhD ;)00:44
directhexpfft, bloody students00:44
directhexbane of my sodding life, the lot of you00:45
kolby_I have about... 1/2 a bachelor00:45
* Laney files a support request with directhex00:45
* directhex disparages Laney on rt-comment@00:45
kolby_is socket programming necessary for network programming?00:46
kolby_or is it going too deep for simple game programming?00:47
directhexLaney, certainWHOOPS, i got my SELECT and DROP the wrong way round in postgres00:48
directhexkolby_, what kind of game? and i think we've deviated into #ubuntu-motu territory here00:48
Laneyit's OK, you have highly redundant backups... right?!?!?00:48
directhexLaney, they were redundant, so i binned them!00:49
Laneyfoiled again00:49
kolby_directhex: so what is this channel for?00:49
LaneyI'd say it's something like Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu)00:50
Laney#ubuntu or a general programming channel00:50
directhexbetter fit than here, albeit not ideal either00:50
directhexthis is the lair of scary people like jono. he can devour you in one bite!00:50
kolby_maybe ##c00:50
kolby_jono sounds like a cool enough guy.00:50
directhexyeah, sure. but you'll go there without me. i don't do c.00:51
kolby_I still haven't heard jono's metal.00:51
Laney#haskell is where all the rock stars go to code00:51
=== kolby_ is now known as directoct
directoctdirecthex: mwahahaha.00:51
jonodirecthex, shame on you :P00:52
* directhex tosses a bacon cookie @ jono 00:52
directhexchocolatey AND meaty!00:53
directoctLaney: haskell != game programmer friendly00:53
Laneynot necessarily00:53
directhexc != friendly ;)00:53
directhexall depends on what you're doing, and where your bottlenecks are, of course00:53
LaneyI wrote sudoku in it!00:54
directoctdirecthex: that's about as unhealthy as these "deep fried chocolate covered twinkies" I saw at the state fair.00:54
directhexbacon! http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/00-single/normal_IMG_0551.JPG00:55
directoctsudoku... has the _potential_ to be resource intensive.00:55
directhexpro-grade games are written in multiple languages00:56
=== directoct is now known as kolby_
kolby_pro-grade = something like wow?00:56
directhexgraphics engine in something like c, and all the game logic in something easier like lua, python, or a custom language (like unrealscript)00:56
kolby_directhex: ohhhhh...00:57
kolby_I should boiler-plate my code.00:57
kolby_I suppose it has been a trend.00:58
directhexas an example, Sid Meier's Civilization 4 uses Python 2.4 for all the game logic00:58
kolby_directhex: you lie beautiful lies.00:58
directhex/media/disk/Program Files (x86)/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 4/python24.dll: MS-DOS executable PE  for MS Windows (DLL) (GUI) Intel 80386 32-bit00:59
savvas(Literal reply: take that!)01:01
kolby_I have to tell you directhex, that's great news.01:01
directhexmany games use some Free Software somewhere01:02
kolby_directhex: ...so where's the credit?01:02
directhexkolby_, erm... hiding!01:02
directhexkolby_, in the back of the manual, generally01:02
kolby_why wasn't I informed about my nice open source dlls?01:03
savvasthe python license doesn't expect credit I think, right?01:03
directhexdunno. i don't do python01:03
directhexvorbis.dll is a common one to find - all unreal tournament games since 2003, and some others (e.g. grand theft auto san andreas) use vorbis01:03
kolby_well...  they credit their stupid middleware.01:04
directhexas well as sony's singstar karaoke games for playstation01:04
kolby_directhex: I'm sure neversoft used it for their games.01:04
directhexgenerally, game developers have obscene deadlines & budget limits. they just go for the easiest route - best balance of cost & time01:06
kolby_directhex: nice wordpress site btw.01:06
directhexsometimes they opt for vorbis, sometimes they pay for mp3. sometimes they use python or lua, sometimes they pay devs to write something in-house01:06
kolby_strange cookies...01:06
directhexa few devs are using mono now for console development01:06
directhexand iphone01:06
kolby_at least C# has mono developer's respect01:07
=== krusaf|bnc is now known as krusaf
kolby_C# always seemed like M$'s answer to Sun's Java.01:08
directhexto an extent, it is01:08
directhexthey got into trouble for making their "own" modified java, back in the early days of XP, so they took their ball & started their own game01:09
=== moquist_ is now known as moquist
kolby_learning new launguages can be fun.  Python was fun to learn.01:10
directhexi disagree on principle with whitespace sensitivity01:11
kolby_I like that idea.01:11
kolby_don't think of it as forced style.  Think of it as time well spent without "; punctuation"01:12
kolby_plus the code does look pretty.01:13
directhexhmm, i find python ugly01:13
directhexi like my {}!01:13
kolby_then again, I use underscores and full words in variabl names.01:13
=== fta_ is now known as fta
kolby_dont me this:  strange_function(crazy_array[x][y][z][r]);01:18
bbechdolEvening all02:44
LaneyCan someone unsubscribe u-m-s from bug #310349, please?02:46
ubottuLaunchpad bug 310349 in eog "eog does not handle nonadobe CMYK JPEGs correctly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31034902:46
Laneyerm, bug #313049 even02:46
ubottuLaunchpad bug 313049 in smstools "Please merge smstools 3.1.3-1 from Debian experimental (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31304902:46
=== j_ack_ is now known as j_ack
ScottK-desktopLaney: Done.03:55
superm1tjaalton, the "upstream installer" for fglrx builds the same debs that you would get from the archive.  (things that get uploaded to the archive are built with --buildpkg Ubuntu/source, while if you run it locally then --buildpkg Ubuntu/intrepid etc)04:23
android60are there plans to add support for atheros 5007eg cards in jaunty via the madwifi hal 10.5.604:53
atesterwhat packages do I need to install in order to get the binary nvidia drivers in Jaunty?05:02
=== jonathan_ is now known as highvoltage
=== sepheebear is now known as Sepheebear
tjaaltonsuperm1: ok, you may reopen those if you like :)08:02
=== asac_ is now known as asac
DktrKranzStevenK, regarding bug 311706, TechBoard granted me upload privileges for SCons, is that sufficient to process the sync?13:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 311706 in scons "Please sync scons 1.2.0-1 (main) from Debian experimental (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31170613:19
StevenKDktrKranz: I guess so. I'll add it to the processing list13:20
DktrKranzI don't know where uploads privileges are stored (no UI yet, IIRC)13:20
DktrKranzStevenK, if you have some spare time, mind NEWing amule-adunanza backport for intrepid and hardy (binary packages)?13:22
=== warp10_ is now known as warp10
StevenKDktrKranz: Still dealing with the eleventy million syncs13:24
=== fargiola` is now known as fargiolas
superm1tjaalton, well the ones i saw fly by were actually issues from jockey that are fixed by a jockey in -proposed, so it shouldn't be a big deal15:28
=== winkle_ is now known as winkle
tjaaltonsuperm1: oh, excellent17:00
jardihi all17:51
jardiI want to submit a patch to launchpad, but I can't remember the right diff options to make a "good" patch17:52
Riddelljardi: diff -urN17:53
Riddellthe -u is the important bit17:53
jardithanls Riddell17:55
=== nhandler_ is now known as nhandler
NCommandercjwatson_, ping18:46
=== lady_ is now known as lady
stgrabertjaalton: hey, I just upgraded to the ati/readon driver you uploaded today (?), did you see bug 311867 ?19:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 311867 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[M76 Mobility HD 2600] X fails to start - undefined symbol: exaDriverAlloc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31186719:31
tjaaltonstgraber: looks like another dupe of 31174820:04
tjaaltonstgraber: or maybe not, but might be related20:07
stgrabertjaalton: hmm, in 311748 X doesn't seem to crash20:09
tjaaltonstgraber: so in your case it returns to the console?20:10
stgrabertjaalton: yes20:10
stgrabertjaalton: well, it gets stuck half-initialized so I have to start X from ssh but starting it shows that undefined symbol: exaDriverAlloc and exit20:11
tjaaltonstgraber: ok, sound odd since I can't see any dupes :)20:12
stgrabertjaalton: well, the error message sounds like a linking issue (that's why I then mentioned that I'm on amd64) but it's clearly the switch to EXA that introduced the bug20:13
tjaaltonstgraber: ok, try building the driver without patch 104 and see if it helps20:16
stgraberbuilding it now20:19
stgrabertjaalton: X starts just fine without 10420:20
tjaaltonstgraber: ok then.. what if you force EXA from the conffile?20:24
stgraberstarted just fine20:25
stgraber(I added "Option" "AccelMethod" "EXA" to the Device section)20:25
tjaaltonso the patch is broken.. let's wait until bryce get's back :)20:25
stgraberroot@castiana:~/tmp1# grep EXA /var/log/Xorg.0.log20:26
stgraber(**) RADEON(0): Option "AccelMethod" "EXA"20:26
stgraberthat's weird, I'd have thought it'd be more verbose and mention EXA more than one time20:26
NafalloBaby!!! \o/20:31
Babyhi Nafallo :)))20:31
tjaaltonbryce: stgraber confirmed that without ati patch 104 his X can start (bug 31186720:51
ubottuLaunchpad bug 311867 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[M76 Mobility HD 2600] X fails to start - undefined symbol: exaDriverAlloc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31186720:51
tjaaltonbryce: but forcing EXA by using AccelMethod in xorg.conf worked fine20:53
tjaalton(huh, thought I was on #ubuntu-x)20:54
tjaaltonafk, BSG ->20:55
YokoZarPopcon says Wine has more installs than sun java6 now21:34
YokoZarIs the new Gecko backwards compatible?21:43
YokoZaroops wrong channel21:43
directhexYokoZar, the number doesn't take into account the number of people using sin java for windows with wine!21:48
YokoZardirecthex: fair enough ;)21:52
directhexhm. "sin java". typo or freudian slip?21:53
YokoZardirecthex: also doesn't count people using wine/firefox for windows flash21:53
directhexcool kids use wine/msie for windows silverlight!21:55
NCommanderdirecthex, IT BURNS22:11
* NCommander has WINE installed for the Windows version of firefox ...22:11
* directhex burns NCommander 22:12
directhexNCommander, progress with ikvm! it compiles! and runs!22:12
ftastgraber, http://paste.ubuntu.com/98620/23:31
stgraberfta: thanks, applied. I don't really know why I changed it to parseString in commit 48 but it can't be a good reason (otherwise it'd be in the commit message) :)23:38
ftastgraber, thanks. i read you wanted to release 0.11 about a month ago, i can't see it in jaunty. am i missing something?23:40
stgraberfta: well, it's released. I'm just waiting on Debian to package it, then request the sync.23:40
stgraberfta: if it's not soon, I'll just upload the new upstream myself.23:41
ebroderAny core devs wiling to sponsor an upload for LP #216761 ?23:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 216761 in xen-3.3 "errors in xendomains init script" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21676123:41
stgraberfta: or do a 0.11.1 with the few patches I received and then upload it :)23:42
ftastgraber, and chance you can add a default action instead of showing usage ? i'm sick of adding "-i -"23:43
ftastgraber, especially that it's not consistent... you can add "-i -" or "-f text" to work around the test. imho, it's useless.23:44

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