| kolby_ | There's not really any college classes to take for open source developers are there? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Laney | kolby_: Well it's more about getting stuck in than taking classes I suppose | 00:07 |
| directhex | Laney, IMHO that's the case with free software work generally | 00:40 |
| Laney | right, that's what I meant | 00:40 |
| directhex | Laney, i didn't get my cushy linux sysadmin job, with root on a couple of million quid of kit, on the basis of stuff i learnt in classes. i got it on the basis of the linux mucking about i did instead of revising for exams! :) | 00:41 |
| Laney | theory != practice | 00:42 |
| directhex | well, yes. and so much of computing is a mix of both | 00:42 |
| Laney | mhm | 00:42 |
| Laney | kolby_: Pick a project, get your hands dirty :) | 00:42 |
| directhex | purely practice and, well, you get the mess of people who answer linuxquestions or ubuntuforums posts with things involving --prefix=/ | 00:42 |
| directhex | purely theory, and you go nowhere fast either | 00:43 |
| * Laney only knows theory ;) | 00:44 | |
| Laney | silly academia | 00:44 |
| Laney | "When was the last time you ran one of your programs?" is a joke in our lab :S | 00:44 |
| kolby_ | what classes do you take? | 00:44 |
| Laney | none - I'm doing a PhD ;) | 00:44 |
| kolby_ | amazing. | 00:44 |
| directhex | pfft, bloody students | 00:44 |
| Laney | quite | 00:45 |
| directhex | bane of my sodding life, the lot of you | 00:45 |
| kolby_ | I have about... 1/2 a bachelor | 00:45 |
| * Laney files a support request with directhex | 00:45 | |
| * directhex disparages Laney on rt-comment@ | 00:45 | |
| Laney | DATA PROTECTION REQUEST | 00:46 |
| kolby_ | is socket programming necessary for network programming? | 00:46 |
| kolby_ | or is it going too deep for simple game programming? | 00:47 |
| directhex | Laney, certainWHOOPS, i got my SELECT and DROP the wrong way round in postgres | 00:48 |
| directhex | kolby_, what kind of game? and i think we've deviated into #ubuntu-motu territory here | 00:48 |
| Laney | it's OK, you have highly redundant backups... right?!?!? | 00:48 |
| directhex | Laney, they were redundant, so i binned them! | 00:49 |
| Laney | foiled again | 00:49 |
| kolby_ | directhex: so what is this channel for? | 00:49 |
| Laney | I'd say it's something like Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu) | 00:50 |
| kolby_ | okay | 00:50 |
| Laney | #ubuntu or a general programming channel | 00:50 |
| directhex | better fit than here, albeit not ideal either | 00:50 |
| directhex | this is the lair of scary people like jono. he can devour you in one bite! | 00:50 |
| kolby_ | maybe ##c | 00:50 |
| kolby_ | jono sounds like a cool enough guy. | 00:50 |
| directhex | yeah, sure. but you'll go there without me. i don't do c. | 00:51 |
| kolby_ | I still haven't heard jono's metal. | 00:51 |
| Laney | #haskell is where all the rock stars go to code | 00:51 |
| === kolby_ is now known as directoct | ||
| directoct | directhex: mwahahaha. | 00:51 |
| jono | directhex, shame on you :P | 00:52 |
| * directhex tosses a bacon cookie @ jono | 00:52 | |
| jono | :) | 00:52 |
| directhex | chocolatey AND meaty! | 00:53 |
| directoct | Laney: haskell != game programmer friendly | 00:53 |
| Laney | not necessarily | 00:53 |
| directhex | c != friendly ;) | 00:53 |
| directhex | all depends on what you're doing, and where your bottlenecks are, of course | 00:53 |
| Laney | I wrote sudoku in it! | 00:54 |
| directoct | directhex: that's about as unhealthy as these "deep fried chocolate covered twinkies" I saw at the state fair. | 00:54 |
| directhex | bacon! http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/00-single/normal_IMG_0551.JPG | 00:55 |
| directoct | sudoku... has the _potential_ to be resource intensive. | 00:55 |
| directhex | pro-grade games are written in multiple languages | 00:56 |
| === directoct is now known as kolby_ | ||
| directhex | usually | 00:56 |
| kolby_ | pro-grade = something like wow? | 00:56 |
| directhex | graphics engine in something like c, and all the game logic in something easier like lua, python, or a custom language (like unrealscript) | 00:56 |
| kolby_ | directhex: ohhhhh... | 00:57 |
| kolby_ | I should boiler-plate my code. | 00:57 |
| kolby_ | I suppose it has been a trend. | 00:58 |
| directhex | as an example, Sid Meier's Civilization 4 uses Python 2.4 for all the game logic | 00:58 |
| kolby_ | directhex: you lie beautiful lies. | 00:58 |
| directhex | /media/disk/Program Files (x86)/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 4/python24.dll: MS-DOS executable PE for MS Windows (DLL) (GUI) Intel 80386 32-bit | 00:59 |
| savvas | (Literal reply: take that!) | 01:01 |
| kolby_ | I have to tell you directhex, that's great news. | 01:01 |
| savvas | :) | 01:01 |
| directhex | many games use some Free Software somewhere | 01:02 |
| kolby_ | directhex: ...so where's the credit? | 01:02 |
| directhex | kolby_, erm... hiding! | 01:02 |
| directhex | kolby_, in the back of the manual, generally | 01:02 |
| kolby_ | why wasn't I informed about my nice open source dlls? | 01:03 |
| savvas | the python license doesn't expect credit I think, right? | 01:03 |
| directhex | dunno. i don't do python | 01:03 |
| directhex | vorbis.dll is a common one to find - all unreal tournament games since 2003, and some others (e.g. grand theft auto san andreas) use vorbis | 01:03 |
| kolby_ | well... they credit their stupid middleware. | 01:04 |
| directhex | as well as sony's singstar karaoke games for playstation | 01:04 |
| kolby_ | directhex: I'm sure neversoft used it for their games. | 01:04 |
| directhex | possibly | 01:05 |
| directhex | generally, game developers have obscene deadlines & budget limits. they just go for the easiest route - best balance of cost & time | 01:06 |
| kolby_ | directhex: nice wordpress site btw. | 01:06 |
| directhex | sometimes they opt for vorbis, sometimes they pay for mp3. sometimes they use python or lua, sometimes they pay devs to write something in-house | 01:06 |
| kolby_ | strange cookies... | 01:06 |
| directhex | a few devs are using mono now for console development | 01:06 |
| directhex | and iphone | 01:06 |
| kolby_ | at least C# has mono developer's respect | 01:07 |
| === krusaf|bnc is now known as krusaf | ||
| kolby_ | C# always seemed like M$'s answer to Sun's Java. | 01:08 |
| directhex | to an extent, it is | 01:08 |
| directhex | they got into trouble for making their "own" modified java, back in the early days of XP, so they took their ball & started their own game | 01:09 |
| === moquist_ is now known as moquist | ||
| kolby_ | learning new launguages can be fun. Python was fun to learn. | 01:10 |
| directhex | i disagree on principle with whitespace sensitivity | 01:11 |
| kolby_ | I like that idea. | 01:11 |
| kolby_ | don't think of it as forced style. Think of it as time well spent without "; punctuation" | 01:12 |
| kolby_ | plus the code does look pretty. | 01:13 |
| directhex | hmm, i find python ugly | 01:13 |
| directhex | i like my {}! | 01:13 |
| kolby_ | then again, I use underscores and full words in variabl names. | 01:13 |
| === fta_ is now known as fta | ||
| kolby_ | dont me this: strange_function(crazy_array[x][y][z][r]); | 01:18 |
| kolby_ | s/me/mind | 01:18 |
| bbechdol | Evening all | 02:44 |
| Laney | Can someone unsubscribe u-m-s from bug #310349, please? | 02:46 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 310349 in eog "eog does not handle nonadobe CMYK JPEGs correctly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/310349 | 02:46 |
| Laney | erm, bug #313049 even | 02:46 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 313049 in smstools "Please merge smstools 3.1.3-1 from Debian experimental (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/313049 | 02:46 |
| === j_ack_ is now known as j_ack | ||
| ScottK-desktop | Laney: Done. | 03:55 |
| superm1 | tjaalton, the "upstream installer" for fglrx builds the same debs that you would get from the archive. (things that get uploaded to the archive are built with --buildpkg Ubuntu/source, while if you run it locally then --buildpkg Ubuntu/intrepid etc) | 04:23 |
| android60 | are there plans to add support for atheros 5007eg cards in jaunty via the madwifi hal 10.5.6 | 04:53 |
| android60 | ? | 04:53 |
| atester | what packages do I need to install in order to get the binary nvidia drivers in Jaunty? | 05:02 |
| === jonathan_ is now known as highvoltage | ||
| === sepheebear is now known as Sepheebear | ||
| tjaalton | superm1: ok, you may reopen those if you like :) | 08:02 |
| === asac_ is now known as asac | ||
| DktrKranz | StevenK, regarding bug 311706, TechBoard granted me upload privileges for SCons, is that sufficient to process the sync? | 13:19 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 311706 in scons "Please sync scons 1.2.0-1 (main) from Debian experimental (main)." [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311706 | 13:19 |
| StevenK | DktrKranz: I guess so. I'll add it to the processing list | 13:20 |
| DktrKranz | I don't know where uploads privileges are stored (no UI yet, IIRC) | 13:20 |
| DktrKranz | StevenK, if you have some spare time, mind NEWing amule-adunanza backport for intrepid and hardy (binary packages)? | 13:22 |
| === warp10_ is now known as warp10 | ||
| StevenK | DktrKranz: Still dealing with the eleventy million syncs | 13:24 |
| === fargiola` is now known as fargiolas | ||
| superm1 | tjaalton, well the ones i saw fly by were actually issues from jockey that are fixed by a jockey in -proposed, so it shouldn't be a big deal | 15:28 |
| === winkle_ is now known as winkle | ||
| tjaalton | superm1: oh, excellent | 17:00 |
| jardi | hi all | 17:51 |
| jardi | I want to submit a patch to launchpad, but I can't remember the right diff options to make a "good" patch | 17:52 |
| Riddell | jardi: diff -urN | 17:53 |
| Riddell | the -u is the important bit | 17:53 |
| jardi | thanls Riddell | 17:55 |
| jardi | -l+k | 17:55 |
| === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler | ||
| NCommander | cjwatson_, ping | 18:46 |
| === lady_ is now known as lady | ||
| stgraber | tjaalton: hey, I just upgraded to the ati/readon driver you uploaded today (?), did you see bug 311867 ? | 19:31 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 311867 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[M76 Mobility HD 2600] X fails to start - undefined symbol: exaDriverAlloc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311867 | 19:31 |
| tjaalton | stgraber: looks like another dupe of 311748 | 20:04 |
| tjaalton | stgraber: or maybe not, but might be related | 20:07 |
| stgraber | tjaalton: hmm, in 311748 X doesn't seem to crash | 20:09 |
| tjaalton | stgraber: so in your case it returns to the console? | 20:10 |
| stgraber | tjaalton: yes | 20:10 |
| stgraber | tjaalton: well, it gets stuck half-initialized so I have to start X from ssh but starting it shows that undefined symbol: exaDriverAlloc and exit | 20:11 |
| tjaalton | stgraber: ok, sound odd since I can't see any dupes :) | 20:12 |
| stgraber | tjaalton: well, the error message sounds like a linking issue (that's why I then mentioned that I'm on amd64) but it's clearly the switch to EXA that introduced the bug | 20:13 |
| tjaalton | stgraber: ok, try building the driver without patch 104 and see if it helps | 20:16 |
| stgraber | building it now | 20:19 |
| stgraber | tjaalton: X starts just fine without 104 | 20:20 |
| tjaalton | stgraber: ok then.. what if you force EXA from the conffile? | 20:24 |
| stgraber | started just fine | 20:25 |
| stgraber | (I added "Option" "AccelMethod" "EXA" to the Device section) | 20:25 |
| tjaalton | so the patch is broken.. let's wait until bryce get's back :) | 20:25 |
| stgraber | root@castiana:~/tmp1# grep EXA /var/log/Xorg.0.log | 20:26 |
| stgraber | (**) RADEON(0): Option "AccelMethod" "EXA" | 20:26 |
| stgraber | that's weird, I'd have thought it'd be more verbose and mention EXA more than one time | 20:26 |
| Nafallo | Baby!!! \o/ | 20:31 |
| Baby | hi Nafallo :))) | 20:31 |
| tjaalton | bryce: stgraber confirmed that without ati patch 104 his X can start (bug 311867 | 20:51 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 311867 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[M76 Mobility HD 2600] X fails to start - undefined symbol: exaDriverAlloc" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/311867 | 20:51 |
| tjaalton | bryce: but forcing EXA by using AccelMethod in xorg.conf worked fine | 20:53 |
| tjaalton | (huh, thought I was on #ubuntu-x) | 20:54 |
| tjaalton | afk, BSG -> | 20:55 |
| YokoZar | Popcon says Wine has more installs than sun java6 now | 21:34 |
| YokoZar | (~39%) | 21:35 |
| YokoZar | Is the new Gecko backwards compatible? | 21:43 |
| YokoZar | oops wrong channel | 21:43 |
| directhex | YokoZar, the number doesn't take into account the number of people using sin java for windows with wine! | 21:48 |
| YokoZar | directhex: fair enough ;) | 21:52 |
| directhex | hm. "sin java". typo or freudian slip? | 21:53 |
| YokoZar | directhex: also doesn't count people using wine/firefox for windows flash | 21:53 |
| directhex | cool kids use wine/msie for windows silverlight! | 21:55 |
| NCommander | o_o; | 22:11 |
| NCommander | directhex, IT BURNS | 22:11 |
| * NCommander has WINE installed for the Windows version of firefox ... | 22:11 | |
| * directhex burns NCommander | 22:12 | |
| directhex | NCommander, progress with ikvm! it compiles! and runs! | 22:12 |
| fta | stgraber, http://paste.ubuntu.com/98620/ | 23:31 |
| stgraber | fta: thanks, applied. I don't really know why I changed it to parseString in commit 48 but it can't be a good reason (otherwise it'd be in the commit message) :) | 23:38 |
| fta | stgraber, thanks. i read you wanted to release 0.11 about a month ago, i can't see it in jaunty. am i missing something? | 23:40 |
| stgraber | fta: well, it's released. I'm just waiting on Debian to package it, then request the sync. | 23:40 |
| stgraber | fta: if it's not soon, I'll just upload the new upstream myself. | 23:41 |
| ebroder | Any core devs wiling to sponsor an upload for LP #216761 ? | 23:41 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 216761 in xen-3.3 "errors in xendomains init script" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216761 | 23:41 |
| stgraber | fta: or do a 0.11.1 with the few patches I received and then upload it :) | 23:42 |
| fta | stgraber, and chance you can add a default action instead of showing usage ? i'm sick of adding "-i -" | 23:43 |
| fta | stgraber, especially that it's not consistent... you can add "-i -" or "-f text" to work around the test. imho, it's useless. | 23:44 |
| fta | (s/and/any) | 23:47 |
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