[18:55] <jjesse> meeting here?
[18:56] <nhandler> Yep
[18:57] <nixternal> apachelogger: the floor looks like it will be all yours ;)
[18:57] <nixternal> we have 2 people going for membership
[18:57] <nixternal> no timido around?
[18:57] <nixternal> we need to hurry this meeting too, as I have to get to the city and give a presentation in 2 hours
[18:58] <nhandler> Is that the global bug jam presentation nixternal ?
[18:58] <nixternal> yup
[18:58] <alkisg> @schedule Europe/Athens
[18:58] <apachelogger> nixternal: you are too busy
[18:58] <nixternal> tell me about it
[18:59] <nixternal> apachelogger: you just need to employ me, so I won't be so busy :)
[18:59] <[NikO]> arg emea membership change
[18:59] <apachelogger> you could read my mails, it won't be much fun though :P
[18:59] <nixternal> interesting
[18:59] <apachelogger> not even that :P
[18:59] <nixternal> [NikO]: I don't know if it has been changed or not to be honest
[18:59] <nixternal> it looks as if all of the dates are shifted 2 days
[19:00] <[NikO]> before it was 05 janv 21:00
[19:00] <nixternal> because today is the 3rd, and we are doing our meeting now and not the 5th
[19:00] <nhandler> @schedule
[19:00]  * nixternal checks the fridge
[19:00]  * apachelogger pokes Riddell
[19:00] <Riddell> Happy New Year Friends
[19:00] <[NikO]> sorry i miss a |
[19:00] <nixternal> [NikO]: fridge.ubuntu.com has the correct dates and times...look there
[19:00] <nixternal> it seems the silly bot is broken
[19:00] <jjesse> happy new year Riddell
[19:00] <Riddell> what's all this about another meeting?
[19:01] <nixternal> [NikO]: seems I did too :)  ooops
[19:01] <yuriy> happy new year everyone
[19:01] <nixternal> Riddell: jusst a misunderstanding with the topic
[19:01] <[NikO]> happy new year too
[19:01] <Riddell> phew
[19:01] <nixternal> there needs to be a | after the Kubuntu Developers in the topic
[19:01] <nixternal> as it looks like "Kubuntu Developers 05 Jan 20:00
[19:01] <nixternal> anywho,
[19:02] <nixternal> HAPPY NEW YEARS ALL!
[19:02] <apachelogger> HNY to everyone but the topic
[19:02] <Riddell> did we all have a nice christmas and hogmanay?
[19:02] <jjesse> i've had better
[19:02] <nixternal> sure did :)
[19:02] <nixternal> haha, same here :p
[19:02] <nixternal> should we kick off with new members?
[19:02] <Riddell> no timido around
[19:02] <nixternal> that's fine, lets go with nhandler
[19:02] <Lure> happy new year to all kubuntu ninjas
[19:03] <NCommander> hola
[19:03] <Riddell> nhandler: care to introduce yourself?
[19:03] <nixternal> nhandler: please give us an introduction about yourself
[19:03] <apachelogger> Wiki: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/nhandler LP: https://launchpad.net/~nhandler
[19:03] <nhandler> My name is Nathan Handler, and I started using Ubuntu right before Edgy was released. I started contributing in Gutsy, and recently became a MOTU. I am no working on making Kubuntu a great distro
[19:04] <nixternal> isn't it already a great distro?
[19:04] <coreymon77> hi guys
[19:04] <nhandler> nixternal: I never said it wasn't. But even a great distro can be made better
[19:04] <coreymon77> actually managed to make it this time
[19:04] <nixternal> groovy
[19:04] <Riddell> nhandler: what's the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team?
[19:04] <coreymon77> hows everyone doing?
[19:05] <nhandler> Riddell: It is a team led by bodhi_zazen. It helps out on the forums and on irc. It also has Focus groups to help out on LP and the wiki and with other areas
[19:05] <nhandler> IRC channel is #ubuntuforums-beginners
[19:05] <Riddell> nhandler: to help beginners presumably?
[19:05] <nixternal> I can attest to nhandler and his work here in the community...he is a perfect ninja candidate, not only because he is pretty much a neighbor, but because he has worked hard in MOTU land and has taken off...many people in MOTU world are really impressed with him, as I am as well
[19:05] <nhandler> Riddell: Mainly. But it is also there to help anyone with questions
[19:06] <nhandler> Since I started focusing on Kubuntu, I have packaged plasmoid-spellcheck and plasmois-playwolf, and I have updated kcolor-edit, kgrab, kio-gopher, and kopete-cryptography. I have also reviewed some Kubuntu packages on REVU.
[19:07] <Riddell> nhandler: can you see yourself doing more ninjas (KDE main modules packaging) work?
[19:07] <coreymon77> well, his wiki and launchpad pages are sure pretty impressive
[19:07] <apachelogger> nhandler: why did it take you so long to join the kubuntu squad?
[19:07] <nhandler> Riddell: I am hoping to get into that. I have read through the various scripts, and am ready to help out in any way that I can
[19:07] <nixternal> http://hall-of-fame.ubuntu.com/  - one of the busiest sponsors for comments and uploads, the top REVU'er
[19:07] <vorian> I believe nhandler is planning on helping us with the next rounds of packaging Riddell.
[19:07] <nixternal> http://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/ - good 5-a-day stats
[19:07] <nhandler> apachelogger: I was focused on becoming a MOTU. I like to set my priorities.
[19:07] <apachelogger> coreymon77: the wiki is not using oxygen which is not too good :P
[19:08] <apachelogger> nhandler: good point
[19:08] <nhandler> vorian: That is true
[19:08] <nixternal> also note that by being a MOTU, he is also an Ubuntu Member
[19:08] <nixternal> so....
[19:08] <nixternal> +1
[19:08] <jjesse> +1 from me if it matters
[19:09] <nixternal> honestly, I am getting tired of doing votes for this dude :p
[19:09] <vorian> I totally support his application
[19:09] <coreymon77> i dont have much say here, but i seem to like him
[19:09] <nixternal> howdy seele!
[19:09] <seele> hallo
[19:09] <nixternal> we are on our way to a quorum it looks like
[19:09] <Riddell> nhandler: you've only been doing stuff for two months you said?
[19:10] <Riddell> but you also said since gutsy
[19:10] <nhandler> Riddell: I have been packaging and patching bugs for a while. I just haven't been focusing on Kubuntu
[19:10]  * nixternal thinks nhandler is a nixternal stalker
[19:10] <claydoh> +1, its a no-brainer :)
[19:11] <yuriy> nhandler: so you use kubuntu yourself but were focusing on more generic packages?
[19:11] <Riddell> +1 from me too
[19:11] <seele> can someone pastebin the beginning aprt of the interview?
[19:11] <nhandler> yuriy: I use kubuntu on one of my machines. It didn't like my laptop, so I run ubuntu on it
[19:11] <apachelogger> seele: http://paste.ubuntu.com:80/99167/
[19:11] <nixternal> that was way faster than I could do :)
[19:12] <yuriy> nhandler: why do you like kubuntu and choose to work on it? what sets it apart from other distributions (including ubuntu) for you?
[19:12] <apachelogger> nhandler: we gotta fix the latter
[19:12] <nhandler> yuriy: One of the things I like most about Kubuntu is the community. It is smaller and much closer. In Ubuntu, they have so many people that you can't really get to know everyone. As for kubuntu, I really like the way that kde4 is starting to shape up. I want to help make it better
[19:13] <seele> looks good to me
[19:13] <seele> +1 for nhandler
[19:13] <yuriy> +1
[19:13] <apachelogger> nhandler: congrats
[19:13] <nixternal> wooo
[19:13] <Riddell> welcome in nhandler
[19:13] <nixternal> nhandler: Welcome you ninja!
[19:13] <nixternal> congrats!
[19:13] <apachelogger> welcome to the blue headed stepchild team :P
[19:13] <nhandler> Thanks everyone
[19:14] <vorian> yay nhandler!
[19:14] <nixternal> apachelogger: you forgot my copyright/trademark on that quote!
[19:14] <Riddell> anyone else here for membership?
[19:14] <seele> why blue?  i thought it was red
[19:14] <apachelogger> nixternal: jonny closed the wishlist item for copyright as won't fix :P
[19:14] <nixternal> seele: kde is blooo :)
[19:14] <jjesse> i thought everye thing was bloue
[19:14] <nixternal> haha
[19:14]  * seele points to her head :P
[19:14] <vorian> bleaux
[19:14] <nixternal> no more memberships
[19:15] <apachelogger> we should script membership interviews ... would probably save us some time :P
[19:15] <Riddell> first item is "Post-UDS discussion"
[19:15] <nixternal> can wek skip the post UDS discussion, as I want to hear the QtCurve and Documentation bullets by apachelogger since I have to leave shortly
[19:15] <Riddell> could do
[19:15] <Riddell> apachelogger: want to start on those to keep nixternal happy?
[19:15] <nixternal> thank you sir :)
[19:15] <nixternal> hehe
[19:16] <apachelogger> aye
[19:16] <nixternal> apachelogger: scottk and I were looking at qtcurve the other day I think and it looked rather broken
[19:16] <Riddell> what's up with qtcurve apachelogger?
[19:16] <nixternal> I think it was qtcurve
[19:16] <apachelogger> currently we have qtcurve (qt3 style) kde-style-qtcurve (kde3) kde4-style-qtcurve (qt4) kde4-style-qtcurve-kdeconfig (kde4)
[19:16] <nixternal> is that the one with a reverse path applied in rules?
[19:17] <nixternal> shouldn't there be a gtk package with qtcurve as well?
[19:17] <apachelogger> the latter one has a rather ugly rules file
[19:17] <apachelogger> nixternal: well yes, but that is not affected by the kde 4 transition ;-)
[19:17] <nixternal> gotcha
[19:17] <Riddell> apachelogger: but what's the problem?
[19:17] <apachelogger> renaming that stuff to some sensible matter
[19:18] <nixternal> if qtcurve is the package with the reverse patch in the rules, scottk and i couldn't get it to build in jaunty let alone intrepid
[19:18] <apachelogger> I recommend that we drop kde-style-qtcurve ... rename qtcurve to qtcurve-qt4 ... rename kde-style-qtcurve to qtcurve ... and kde4-style-qtcurve-kdeconfig to kde-style-qtcurve
[19:18]  * apachelogger is pretty sure he lost everyone by now :P
[19:18] <Riddell> qtcurve is a dummy package
[19:18] <nixternal> apachelogger: qt-style-qtcurve I think is how it goes...how does debian do it?
[19:18] <apachelogger> Riddell: are you sure?
[19:19] <Riddell> in intrepid that's what it says
[19:19] <nixternal> yes, on s/kde4/kde/ on the style bits
[19:19] <apachelogger> well, the whole qtcurve stuff is pretty confusing anyway
[19:19] <nixternal> that it is
[19:20] <Riddell> qtcurve is described as a dummy package but seems more like a meta package for the kde and gtk ones
[19:20] <apachelogger> hm
[19:21] <apachelogger> Riddell: maybe we didn't have a qt3-only version
[19:21] <Riddell> my thoughts would be to merge kde4-style-qtcurve and kde4-style-qtcurve-kdeconfig and call it kde-style-qtcurve
[19:21] <Riddell> rename kde-style-qtcurve to kde3-style-qtcurve
[19:21] <Riddell> and make qtcurve depend on kde 3, 4 and gtk
[19:21] <apachelogger> hm
[19:21] <apachelogger> I am not too sure kde3-style-qtcurve will build at all
[19:22] <apachelogger> IIRC qtcurve needs kwin to build
[19:22] <Riddell> oh well drop it then
[19:22] <apachelogger> ok
[19:23] <Riddell> sorted?
[19:23] <apachelogger> what to do about the qt4-only package?
[19:23] <apachelogger> currently kde4-style-qtcurve IIRC
[19:24] <Riddell> I'd be tempted to merge it as I say, can't believe that many people care about having a qt only one
[19:24]  * apachelogger agrees
[19:24] <Riddell> but then I'm a KDE guy so I could be biased :)
[19:24] <nixternal> kde-style-qtcurve, kwin-style-qtcurve, qt4-style-qtcurve - i think it is supposed to be something like this per debian...as I have been working on a coupld of theme packages in debian
[19:24] <apachelogger> I'll consult with debian about the qt4 style then
[19:24] <apachelogger> [sorted]
[19:25] <nixternal> apachelogger: pusling is the master at this stuff, so you might want to start there
[19:25] <apachelogger> aye aye
[19:25] <Riddell> what's up with our documentation install paths?
[19:25] <nixternal> /usr/share/doc/*
[19:25] <apachelogger> KDE 3 uses doc/KDE/
[19:25] <apachelogger> KDE 4 uses doc/KDE4/
[19:26] <apachelogger> (maybe lowercase)
[19:26] <nixternal> lowercase
[19:26] <Riddell> is that a problem?
[19:26] <nixternal> /usr/share/doc/kde <- kde 3
[19:26] <apachelogger> that makes the former unaccessible in KDE 4's khelpcenter, even though it lists them due to the desktop file
[19:26] <nixternal> it shouldn't be a problem at all, as it is part of the fd.o specification for documentation
[19:27] <nixternal> we make khc look anywhere we want though for documentation
[19:27] <Riddell> there's a fd.o sepc for docs?
[19:27] <nixternal> Riddell: just the /usr/share/doc/ part
[19:27] <apachelogger> well
[19:27] <nixternal> we are working on a specification with gnome and kde in fd.o
[19:27] <nixternal> mallard was working well wtih it, but it is vaporware it seems
[19:27] <apachelogger> I recommned we change the KDE 4 path to doc/kde
[19:27] <Riddell> /usr/share/doc/ is quite a busy place, it wants to scan that whole directory?
[19:27] <nixternal> I agree with apachelogger on /usr/share/doc/kde/
[19:28] <nixternal> though
[19:28] <apachelogger> Riddell: based on desktop files I would assume
[19:28] <nixternal> hrmm
[19:28] <apachelogger> nixternal: maybe talk to debian
[19:28] <nixternal> Riddell: khc only scans /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/$cc/
[19:28] <apachelogger> and then change to the path they want to use in the future
[19:28] <apachelogger> technically KHC doesn't scan anything
[19:28] <nixternal> no, just looks there
[19:29] <apachelogger> it queries ksycoca for applications and reads their doc setting
[19:29] <nixternal> you can make khc open any html and/or docbook file extension no matter where it is located
[19:29] <apachelogger> that is why it doesn't matter what path we use as long as it is the same in KDE 3 and KDE 4
[19:30] <apachelogger> so, course of action = talk to debian about path they want to use
[19:30] <apachelogger> everyone ok with that?
[19:30] <Riddell> merging them would cause clashes in /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/common/
[19:30] <nixternal> debian is still separating their paths I thought
[19:31] <apachelogger> Riddell: we can drop the KDE 3 one
[19:31] <Riddell> seems sensible enough to move to doc/kde then
[19:31] <nixternal> I agree
[19:31] <apachelogger> ok
[19:31] <nixternal> khc codebase == ewwww
[19:31] <Riddell> but indeed check with debian too, they may well know of problems that would cause
[19:31] <nixternal> I need to start spending more time on it
[19:31] <apachelogger> nixternal: suse code :P
[19:32] <apachelogger> the apps data path is a related issue
[19:32] <Riddell> tell us about it apachelogger
[19:32] <apachelogger> debian also uses $PREFIX/share/kde4/apps/ instead of $PREFIX/share/apps/
[19:32] <nixternal> suse code is only in the search handlers iirc
[19:32] <nixternal> ie. htdig :(
[19:33] <apachelogger> however, KDE regulates this in one of the cmake modules (in a very static way)
[19:33] <apachelogger> so, if you compile a KDE 4 app manually it will use $P/share/apps, because it doesn't know that debian/kubuntu use share/kde4/apps
[19:33] <apachelogger> which results in broken application data
[19:34] <Riddell> mm, that does confuse people
[19:34] <apachelogger> ^_^
[19:34] <apachelogger> simply put: there is a wrong installation path used for non-cdbs compiled stuff
[19:35] <apachelogger> we can resolve this by either patching the appropriate cmake modules, which works pretty well
[19:35] <apachelogger> or we change to KDE default ($P/share/apps)
[19:36] <apachelogger> since we most likely need to recompile every KDE 4 app because of the doc path changes anyway both options are good options IMO
[19:36] <Riddell> I'd go with the former unless debian plan to change, that would be quite a deviation and there's probably still clashes with kde 3
[19:37] <apachelogger> *nod*
[19:37] <apachelogger> I'll talk with debian and go with the patching if the latter option is not possible
[19:38] <Riddell> sorted?
[19:38] <apachelogger> + I need to report this to KDE anyway, because debian needs to have the setting exported properly anyway
[19:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: yes
[19:38] <Riddell> it would be nice if the cmake module was set correctly at compile time
[19:39] <Riddell> Post-UDS discussion
[19:39] <Riddell> how was UDS for you seele, nixternal..?
[19:39] <Riddell> we wrote some specs which are here https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuJauntySpecs
[19:39] <seele> the most tiring one yet imo
[19:39] <seele> too much activity for someone who works at home alone all the time :)
[19:40] <jjesse> great except had to leave early :(
[19:40] <Riddell> we'll need to paste you into our group photo jjesse
[19:40] <jjesse> Riddell: i know bummed i missed it
[19:40] <Riddell> plan is to change to package kit
[19:41] <Riddell> various tweaks to installer, a good challenge for anyone who likes pykde
[19:41] <apachelogger> is kpackagekit imported into jaunty yet?
[19:41] <nixternal> Riddell: uds was super busy for me actually
[19:41] <apachelogger> last I checked I didn't find it
[19:41] <seele> yes, Tonio created some Intrepid packages and Thomas Pfeffer (colomar) is in the process of reviewing it
[19:41] <nixternal> wasn't expecting to be that darn busy
[19:41] <yuriy> how many kubuntu/kde people were at UDS?
[19:41] <jjesse> colomar is doing the usability stuff for you right seele?
[19:41] <nixternal> and the dancing santa was the highlight of the entire event :)
[19:41] <seele> he will provide some feedback to what improvements could be made, and we can figure out which ones we can actually get done by feature freeze
[19:42] <seele> jjesse: yes, he was my Season of Usability intern last year
[19:42]  * apachelogger notes that getting any kind of package in ASAP would be good
[19:42] <seele> and he came to Akademy (if anyone remembers)
[19:42] <seele> packaging is Tonio's job, i just know he was working on it
[19:42] <Riddell> yuriy: me, nixternal, rgreening, jjesse, tonio and at fosscamp blahzahl, chani and aurean the kpackagekit dude
[19:42] <Riddell> seele too of course
[19:43] <nixternal> seele was there? :p
[19:43] <apachelogger> seele: I'll poke him about that
[19:43]  * seele sighs
[19:43] <nixternal> WEARING BLUE!!!!
[19:43] <seele> no love
[19:43] <nixternal> and trying to hide it
[19:43] <seele> nixternal: it was cold that day :P
[19:43]  * apachelogger hands seele a cookie 
[19:43] <apachelogger> cookies > love
[19:43] <nixternal> hahahaha
[19:43] <jjesse> the blue crew shirt
[19:43] <yuriy> < doctormo> I didn't see a whole load of kde people at UDS, maybe 3 or 4.  <-- in response to my comment on mark's blog about notifications
[19:43] <apachelogger> nixternal: we need to discuss crew shirts @ next marketing metting :P
[19:43] <Riddell> no surprises in KubuntuJauntyKDEPackaging but we do need to work out the mysql packaging for amarok and akonadi which will be tricky (especially amarok)
[19:43] <yuriy> got the impression that we just didn't have enough of a presense there
[19:44] <apachelogger> Riddell: I suppose last option would be to do it the intrepid way?
[19:44] <jjesse> yuriy: we had more of a presence at this uds then the past
[19:44] <nixternal> apachelogger: roger that!
[19:44] <Lure> Riddell: is anybody working on digikam/kipi-plugins packaging already?
[19:44] <Riddell> yuriy: desktop is less important than it used to be, lots of server and mobile people these days (I didn't see a whole load of gnome people)
[19:44] <Riddell> apachelogger: mysql 5.1?
[19:44] <Lure> Riddell: there are two dependancies (optional though) missing: libopencv liblensfun
[19:44] <nixternal> besides the Kubuntu tracks, I was constantly in Community and MOTU/Development tracks...non stop
[19:45] <apachelogger> Lure: devfil is working on digikam AFAIK
[19:45] <nixternal> the entire week, I had 1 time slot where there wasn't a track specific to me
[19:45] <apachelogger> Lure: and tonio updated kipi
[19:45] <Riddell> Lure: volunteers welcome :)  I'd like to see those all move over to KDE 4 versions
[19:45] <Lure> apachelogger: ok, is he in #kubuntu-devel?
[19:45] <seele> nixternal: yes, i think i only had a few hours or breathing all week
[19:45] <apachelogger> Lure: sometimes
[19:45] <apachelogger> Lure: he's CET so he might be out partying by now ;-)
[19:45] <Riddell> we need to check if there's going to be a version of k3b we can use
[19:46] <Lure> apachelogger: if nobody will step in, I might try to use my rusty packaging skills and try to create packages ;-)
[19:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: did anyone try trunk yet?
[19:46] <Riddell> not I
[19:46] <yuriy> comments on the dot claim that k3b for kde4 is usable
[19:46] <nixternal> tonio said he saw something about k3b, but I have looked and looked and haven't found anything...the mailing lists are even asking where the kde k3b stuff is at
[19:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: all people I talked to said "looks good, but didn't try burning"
[19:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: so we probably should test the latter ;-)
[19:46] <Riddell> we want to get kde 3 libs off the CD so that means getting rid of konversation as well for now
[19:46] <nixternal> seems the lead dev is working a new job elsewhere and has little time to maintain k3b
[19:47] <Riddell> possibly to be replaced with quassel if seele convinces them to make it usable
[19:47] <apachelogger> nixternal: the lead dev is also lead dev of nepomuk
[19:47] <apachelogger> Riddell: already working on it
[19:47] <apachelogger> + quassel got KDE integration (notifciation and icons) already
[19:47] <nixternal> apachelogger: correct, but didn't he get a new job or something? possibly working on nepomuk so than anything else?
[19:48] <apachelogger> nixternal: *shrug* all I know is that he was working for mandriva at some point
[19:48] <yuriy> mandriva is paying him to work on nepomuk I think
[19:48] <nixternal> ahh, I just read something to that effect recently
[19:48] <nixternal> yuriy: ya, I think that is exactly what I read
[19:48] <Riddell> we'll need to look at webkitkde once qt 4.5 is out and evaluate if it's better than khtml
[19:48] <Lure> Riddell: is qt 4.5 to land in jaunty?
[19:49] <apachelogger> depends on the quality
[19:49] <Riddell> Lure: they won't say but I hope it'll be out in time
[19:49] <apachelogger> last I checked it rendered a lot of Qt 4.4 stuff unusable
[19:49] <Lure> apachelogger: yes, I recalled thiago's post about kde4 being showstopper for qt 4.5 release
[19:50] <apachelogger> well for KDE 4 most stuff is resolved, can't say the same about quassel for example
[19:50] <Riddell> KubuntuJauntyGapAnalysis has various programming bits to be done, installing Restriced Install, system-config-printer really to be finished, tseliot's display setup tool...
[19:50] <Riddell> txwikinger: about?
[19:50] <txwikinger> yes
[19:51] <Riddell> txwikinger: any plans to work on user setup tool this cycle?
[19:51] <txwikinger> yes
[19:52] <txwikinger> I will try to integrate what I did to the system-settings
[19:52] <apachelogger> kuser isn't too bad for the time being
[19:52] <apachelogger> now that it works kind of ;-)
[19:52] <Riddell> txwikinger: seele did put her name down for specifying an improved UI for that, would you be able to take that on if she does?
[19:52] <txwikinger> Riddell: yes, I think so
[19:52] <Riddell> sime says pykde can be intergrated with system settings now, so various things can be made into modules for that
[19:53] <txwikinger> cool
[19:53] <Riddell> I should track down the sample code for that
[19:53] <apachelogger> jonny already started with jockey
[19:53] <apachelogger> as reported in his blog
[19:53] <Riddell> oh, nice
[19:53] <Arby> I've been trying to do the same with system-config-printer
[19:53] <apachelogger> Riddell: update-notifier-kde should probably be renamed? kpackagekit comes with an update notification system builtin
[19:53] <Arby> without much success it has to be said
[19:54] <nixternal> alrighty, gotta head out...talk to you all later!
[19:54] <apachelogger> cya nixternal
[19:54] <Riddell> Arby: thanks for your e-mail on s-c-p-k, I'll get round to replying to it properly soon I hope
[19:54] <txwikinger> bye nixternal
[19:54] <nhandler> Bye nixternal
[19:54] <Arby> Riddell: no rush
[19:54] <Riddell> I should talk about the Desktop Experience team before we finish
[19:54] <seele> heh
[19:55] <Riddell> Canonical has put together this team of people to work on useful desktop bling stuff
[19:55] <Riddell> their first project will be to do with notifications and was announced at UDS
[19:56] <Riddell> the idea of the team is to make a useful contribution to the state of the free desktops
[19:56] <Riddell> they have some Gnome people on it now and (because gnome is more in need of interesting things to happen to it :)
[19:56] <apachelogger> ^_^
[19:57] <Riddell> and will hire qt/kde person/people early this year to make sure we're not left out
[19:57] <Riddell> so this means canonical will be a bit more hands on in saying what goes into Kubuntu, which up until now they havn't at all (I'm speaking with my kubuntu community hat)
[19:58] <Riddell> so us in the kubuntu community need to make sure that what they work on is useful and works well to bring us and KDE stuff we love
[19:59] <Riddell> from talks at UDS on the notification bits I think they know what needs doing to get it done with KDE well
[19:59] <Riddell> and it may not happen this cycle for KDE (nobody hired yet and feature freeze is in 6 weeks)
[20:00] <Riddell> but in future it should happen at the same time on ubuntu desktop and kubuntu since sabdfl is keen we are not left out
[20:00] <Riddell> any comments or questions?
[20:01] <apachelogger> sabdfl++ for that
[20:01] <yuriy> so they talked with all of you guys at UDS about notifications?
[20:01] <seele> you could say that
[20:01] <Riddell> us and upstream too
[20:02] <Arby> I saw a few blogs suggesting there was some resistance within KDE to parts of what was proposed on marks blog.
[20:02] <apachelogger> yuriy: they also talked with aaron in #plasma
[20:02] <Arby> if KDE flat out refuse to play what do we do?
[20:02] <apachelogger> the notifications stuff is a bit messed up because there are kind-of 2 versions floating around
[20:03] <apachelogger> the not-fd.o but almost standard one and the KDE one, which is based on the not-fd.o one but enhanced
[20:03] <Riddell> Arby: upstream gnome had much the same reaction to some parts
[20:03] <Arby> not unexpected
[20:03] <Riddell> if KDE doesn't want it we'd need to keep patches, which it would be the responsibility of the DX team to maintain
[20:03] <apachelogger> oh, that part I like
[20:03] <Arby> that's what I was wondering
[20:04] <Riddell> apachelogger: and hopefully this work can create a real cross desktop standard
[20:04] <seele> part of the problem with the proposed design is that it doesn't account for KDE's heavy use of applications as services
[20:04] <yuriy> apachelogger: I think that makes 3 versions now
[20:04] <apachelogger> we need a lot more standards in general
[20:04] <Arby> so basically this is going to happen whether upstream like it or not
[20:04] <seele> they want to get rid of a lot of icons in the GNOME task panel, but their solution wont necessarily work in KDE-world
[20:05] <yuriy> the great thing about standards ....
[20:05] <Arby> that could make life ... colourful
[20:05] <apachelogger> yuriy: well the idea is that the one created by the DX team gets also a consesus between gnome and KDE requirements
[20:06] <apachelogger> that would then make it perfect for freedesktop.org
[20:06] <Riddell> I think this is a very exciting change and I'm happy we're part of it, if we make sure all the right connections are made between us, the DX people and upstream it should be good for everyone
[20:07] <apachelogger> +1
[20:07] <seele> the fact that theyre trying to fix the fdo spec is a +1 in itself
[20:07] <seele> regardless of the other design changes, notifications of either app families will work consistently and reliably on either platform
[20:08] <seele> that's on part with being able to automatically set the OK/Cancel Cance/OK order automatically based on platform
[20:08] <seele> people start to wonder why it wasnt done sooner
[20:08] <seele> thats how much sense it makes :)
[20:08] <Arby> where would be the right place to keep track of progress? do I need to subscribe to another mailing list?
[20:08]  * apachelogger would guess so
[20:09] <seele> dunno, Riddell might know.  i'm under the impression it is still internal though
[20:09] <Riddell> good question, I'll need to ask about that
[20:10] <Riddell> there's various docs on the wiki somewhere and I think they use the #ubuntu-desktop channel and ubuntu-desktop mailing lists but I could be wrong
[20:10]  * apachelogger would prefer if they didn't
[20:10] <seele> i havent seen anything about notifications on ubuntu-desktop
[20:10] <seele> maybe there is an ubuntu-desktop-experience?
[20:10] <Riddell> dunno, I'll ask
[20:10] <apachelogger> -desktop is usually quite gnomish, so I for one wouldn't want to subscribe to it
[20:10] <Riddell> any other business?
[20:11] <beuno> Riddell, there isn't a channel for this yet
[20:12] <Riddell> I'm on jury service on Monday so potentially I'll be away for an indefinate period, or maybe just a couple of hours if my name doesn't get picked out of the hat
[20:12] <Riddell> I'll be around in evenings if I do get picked anyway
[20:13] <txwikinger> cool Riddell
[20:13]  * NCommander is back, sorry
[20:13] <seele> oh.. UDS sponsored people: your receipts are due Jan 9 I believe
[20:13] <NCommander> ugh, completely forgot about that
[20:13]  * NCommander still has them
[20:13] <Riddell> thanks for coming all, 2009 is going to rock!
[20:14]  * apachelogger hands out cookies
[20:14] <Arby> yum
[20:14]  * txwikinger hands out Tim Horton's Hot Chocolate