mcohen_hi all, can anyone help me with installing edubuntu over xubuntu?06:47
mcohen_I am trying xu because the machine is very low-end06:47
Ahmuckmcohen_: yes06:48
Ahmucki have a xubuntu base install here06:49
Ahmuckmcohen_: what r u trying to do ?06:49
mcohen_well, xubuntu got on the machine 2nd time around06:50
mcohen_128 MB of ram, you see, though it has a p3 750MHz chip06:50
Ahmuck8.10 ?06:50
Ahmuckwhy edubuntu?06:50
mcohen_edubuntu for my daughter, she asked for it specifically06:50
mcohen_yeah 8.1006:51
Ahmuckrequirements for xubuntu went up to 256 for 8.1006:51
Ahmuckbut i'll try06:51
mcohen_yeah I know06:51
mcohen_they said it might work anyway06:51
Ahmuckthere is openbox06:51
mcohen_how usable would this distro be to a child?06:53
Ahmucku would put edubuntu on afterward06:54
Ahmuckok, let's stick with xubuntu for now06:54
Ahmuckso u have ur shiny xubuntu and u insert the edubunt disk into the drive?06:54
mcohen_the problem is that when I go to install an edubuntu package like the science add-on I get a conflict with installed packages06:55
mcohen_I use kubuntu on my work machine and code in python and c++, you can assume a certain level of knowledge :)06:55
Ahmuckah, yes.  i just had the same problem.  let me see06:55
Ahmucki assume your familiar with "sudo aptitude install package_name"06:57
mcohen_yep sure06:58
Ahmuckit appears this works for edubuntu desktop06:58
mcohen_ok, now how do I ensure that it decides to look on the disk rather than on online repositories (no net connection atm)06:59
mcohen_and which packages are good for xubuntu?06:59
Ahmuckas well as add/remove07:00
mcohen_ok, a bunch of the packages it claims are broken07:01
mcohen_including edubuntu-desktop (the package I was trying)07:01
Ahmuckwith add/remove ?07:02
Ahmuckor using sudo aptitude ?07:02
mcohen_sudo aptitude07:03
Ahmucklet me see.  add/remove works 4 me here07:03
Ahmucki just tried sudo aptitude and it began downloading ealier07:03
mcohen_no net connection, trying to do it with the disk only07:04
mcohen_add/remove is the gui version yes?07:04
mcohen_ah hmm, it says the broken packages are broken because they have virtual dependencies07:05
Ahmuckno net connection o.O07:05
mcohen_edubuntu-desktop relies on ubuntu-desktop, for example07:06
mcohen_this is an ooold machine07:06
mcohen_either a net connection, or a disk drive, but not both simultaneously07:06
Ahmuckmore than one cdrom drive?07:06
mcohen_a challenge :)07:06
Ahmucksounds like your going to have to add "disks" to the machine and then install07:06
mcohen_never been great with the mount command, can you run me through it?07:07
Ahmuck!loli collect07:07
ubottuSorry, I don't know anything about loli collect07:07
Ahmuck!loli collect07:07
Ahmucker, sorry07:07
Ahmuckplaying an irc game :(07:08
mcohen_I hate wrong window mistakes07:08
Ahmucki suspect ur going to have to burn iso of ubuntu and kubunt and add those cdroms to your repositories to get the machine to work07:09
mcohen_ok, I can burn an iso to a USB thumb drive, and then mount it I guess07:09
mcohen_let me see if I can manage that, then you can show me how to add it to the repository07:10
mcohen_ok, I've mounted the edubuntu cd and I have the xubuntu cd in the actual drive07:18
Ahmuckapplication --> system --> software sources07:20
Ahmucku may need to have the ubuntu cd as well07:20
Ahmuckthird party apps07:22
Ahmuckadd cdrom07:22
mcohen_trying that07:23
mcohen_the edubuntu cd has been mounted as a directory though, not as a piece of hardware07:24
Ahmuckthis might be interesting07:24
Ahmuckcd /etc/apt07:24
Ahmucksudo nano sources.list07:25
Ahmuckthere's this as well07:26
Ahmuckany luck?07:28
mcohen_ok, if I edit the sources.list, what should I put to have it access a directory on the local machine?07:28
Ahmuckgood question.  i'm googling07:30
Ahmucku copied the iso to the machine?  is the iso on the thumb drive?07:32
mcohen_iso is on the thumb drive07:32
mcohen_I mounted it to a directory on the machine07:32
Ahmucki think this would do it07:33
Ahmucki assume you "mount /dev/disk /mnt/disk"07:33
Ahmucki grabbing at straws here.  i know the general direction07:33
mcohen_I ran mount /media/disk/edubuntu.iso ~/edubuntu_disk07:35
mcohen_it says in the link you said that the mountpoint must be in the fstab though07:35
mcohen_and the first column of the fstab seems to require a physical hardware object, such as /dev/cdrom007:36
Ahmuckmounting an iso is a little different07:36
mcohen_ok, what should be in the fstab?07:37
Ahmuck /home/somebody/cdrom.iso /home/somebody/folder iso9660 user,loop 0 007:40
Ahmuckhttp://www.debianhelp.org/node/10486 - this article explains it all07:41
mcohen_is a restart/logout required for fstab?07:43
crimsunmcohen_: no07:43
Ahmuckit's 2 am here.  my system is crashing.  the live one :)07:44
Ahmuckso i've got to get some sleeeeep07:44
mcohen_thanks for your help07:46
mcohen_do you think I'll need the ubuntu disk as well as xubuntu and edubuntu?07:46
mcohen_and finally, in the bottom post in the thread you linked, is "etch contrib main" the right text for the sources.list?07:47
Ahmuckyou need to match what is similar for the cdrom07:50
mcohen_ah I see07:50
Ahmuckdeb file:[Kubuntu 8.04.1 _Hardy Heron_ - Release i386 (20080701.2)]/ hardy main restricted07:51
Ahmuckur mounting the iso as a loop in fstab07:51
Ahmuckand then telling apt where to find it07:51
Ahmucki'm not sure if you need cdrom or file07:52
Ahmuckthere is aptoncd07:52
Ahmuckwhere you pick up packages from a installed system.  so if you have ubuntu on yours, you can create a cd of all the packages installed on your system07:52
Ahmuckall aptoncd really does is creates an iso of your downloaded packages07:53
mcohen_I see07:53
Ahmucki think07:53
Ahmucki'm a linux ameature07:53
mcohen_for my sources I have deb file:/home/location/ intrepid ma$07:54
highvoltageshould be three slashes in the uri07:55
Ahmuckwell, nn07:56
Ahmucki'm to tired to stay awake any longer07:56
highvoltagenn Ahmuck07:56
mcohen_nn and thanks07:57
alkisgmcohen_: try to mount the iso and put this line: "deb file:///path/to/mounted/iso intrepid main" in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/edubuntucd.list and then run "sudo apt-get update" and "sudo apt-get install edubuntu-addon-science". Don't install edubuntu-desktop, it depends on ubuntu-desktop while you have xubuntu.08:02
Ahmuck[02:02] <alkisg> mcohen_: try to mount the iso and put this line: "deb file:///path/to/mounted/iso intrepid main" in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/edubuntucd.list and then run "sudo apt-get update" and "sudo apt-get install edubuntu-addon-science". Don't install edubuntu-desktop, it depends on ubuntu-desktop while you have xubuntu.08:04
alkisgmcohen, ^^^08:05
mcohenwill try08:20
mcohenwhat is d/edubuntucd.list08:21
mcohenalternatively, what is the edubuntu repository?08:22
mcohensorry, alksig, what is d/edubuntucd.list08:29
alkisgmcohen: there isn't an edubuntu repository, the edubuntu packages are in ubuntu main08:31
alkisgsources.list.d is a folder which functions similar to sources.list. It's easier to put new sources there on seperate files. But if you already modified your sources.list, then just change the contents to "deb file:///path/to/mounted/iso intrepid main"08:33
mcohentried this, but it can't find the package08:38
mcohenI am also trying to do this purely with a net connection, also can't find the package there either08:39
alkisgmcohen: Is kalzium in your package list?08:49
alkisgedubuntu-addon-science = kalzium, kig, kmplot, kstars and qcad08:49
mcohenyes, kalzium is there08:52
mcohenbut that's because it's part of the KDE education module08:55
mcohenI can't find anything witht he word edubuntu in it08:55
alkisgstgraber: the italc-launcher python script changes the environment: os.environ["LANG"]="C" # Set environ LANG to C19:47
alkisgbut doesn't restore it, so all localizations/translations are useless..19:47
alkisgI mean that if I run "italc" from the console I see Greek UI, but if I run "italc-launcher" from the gnome Applications menu I see English UI.19:50
stgraberalkisg: oops19:52
alkisgI really have to read about what mirc net splits are... :)19:55
stgraberit's when the connection between two IRC servers is lost and then re-established19:57
alkisgI thought there was only one server, irc.freenode.net... Never mind!19:57
stgraberalkisg: just do "host irc.freenode.net"19:59
stgraberthat'll give you a partial list of IRC servers as it doesn't contain some test servers and the IPV6 servers19:59
stgraberthere are freenode servers on all continents and some IRC hubs to interconnect the servers20:00
alkisgAh, dns ...what's the name, aliases, I see20:00
stgrabera single server couldn't handle all of freenode users and that'd be a single point of failure too20:00
stgraberthe server I'm connect to currently has 6210 users connect to it (kornbluth)20:02
stgraberThere are 24491 listed and 21099 unlisted users on 34 servers20:05
stgraber26876 channels formed20:05
nubaeI believe irc.freenode.org routes you automatically to the most suitable server20:06
nubaeat least it puts bots on their own server, for example20:06
Fritz87wait so I can't play it on my regular computer even if I buy it?20:51
Fritz87wait, so I can't use it on my regular computer without some special program?20:51
nubaeFritz87: ??20:51
alkisgstgraber, also the autodetect feature (with avahi) isn't working. I tried to manually run ica-launcher again on an ltsp client, and I get "Failed to add service: local name collision". All this with the default installation (= NOT on the chroot). Are avahi-published service names supposed to be uniquely named?20:53
stgraberalkisg: IIRC the avahi name now includes the username so it should yes20:53
stgraberalkisg: I'd need to look at that code again, it's been a while since I last touched it20:53
alkisgI think that's the problem, that it doesn't include the username20:53
alkisgavahi-publish-service "italc $HOSTNAME" _italc._tcp $IVSPORT $MD5_1 $MD5_2 $MD5_3 "$HOSTNAME" > /dev/zero &20:54
alkisg(or, and maybe better, the port)20:54
nubaeu got hostnames for all your clients?20:55
alkisgyes, but this runs on the server (it's not installed on the chroot) so it shouldn't make any difference...20:56
alkisgnubae, does avahi autodetection work for you?20:56
alkisg(oh, you got fat clients, never mind! :))20:56
nubaeI use both actually20:57
nubaebut I always used ips to locate the clients, so no I guess...20:57
stgraberalkisg: well, I'll need to add some logic to it as using the HOSTNAME will cause a lot of duplicates on the network (the thin clients all have the same hostname), the port will cause the same (it's 5800 for all ltsp thin clients) and the username is not that easy to get on the thin clients (the script is run as root)21:00
stgraberanyway, I'll have to look at that again soon to update Jaunty, I'll then upload an intrepid backport to the ppa as I doubt it'd be serious enough for a SRU21:00
alkisgGood enough. Please try to also use 10000 vs 11000 port when needed21:01
stgraberwell, both 10000 and 11000 are currently used, one for ISD the other for IVS21:01
nubaewhat is ISD and IVS?21:03
stgraberItalc Service Daemon and Italc VNC Server21:03
stgraberISD is to get the commands like triggering demo mode, screen locking, ... and the VNC server is basically x11vnc21:04
alkisgstgraber: I meant the ISD port, e.g. 11105 for a client with .105 IP etg21:04
stgraberalkisg: well, that'll need to be changed too anyway as more and more network are using network class bigger than a simple C class21:05
alkisgIn the new hostname patch uploaded by vagrantc the thin clients are uniquely named even in class A or B networks. But then again if someone uses NAT, it could have 2 clients with the same IP...21:07
stgraberwith NAT avahi won't work anyway, so not a big problem :)21:07
nubaeyeah wondered about that, italc must have problems with cluster-ltsp, no?21:10
stgraberwe don't use NAT :) and we don't use avahi either (italc-launcher as a module for ltsp-cluster)21:12
nubaeare there any other deployments (other than yours) that use ltsp-cluster that u know of?21:14
alkisgOK, I changed the above line to: avahi-publish-service "italc $HOSTNAME$IVSPORT" _italc._tcp $IVSPORT $MD5_1 $MD5_2 $MD5_3 "$HOSTNAME" > /dev/zero &21:21
alkisgand it works now, so it was definately the name thing21:21
nubaegreets LaserJock21:23
alkisgHi LaserJock21:24
LaserJocknubae: I noticed somebody has requested to join Edubuntu Members ;-)21:25
nubaelol, I figured I should probably do that21:26
LaserJockwe should get the Edubuntu Council back in action21:26
LaserJockany of you guys running Sugar on Hardy/Intrepid?21:30
LaserJockwe need some people to test the fix for bug #26317321:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 263173 in sugar-hulahop "Sugar Browse fails on startup" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26317321:32
nubaethats fixed21:32
nubaein intrepid21:32
nubaewas a hardy bug21:33
LaserJockshouldn't be fixed yet21:33
stgrabernubae: not that I know of, though we have multiple customers :) I also heard Fedora might be unterested in packaging ltsp-cluster too.21:33
nubaeand I dont see anyone with the willpower to go back and fix it for hardy21:33
nubaeits definitely fixed for intrepid21:34
LaserJocknubae: *I* fixed it21:34
stgrabernubae: but usually when it comes to managing that kind of network, having the clustering part in place is not enough, there is a lot of other things to take care of so they usually just become customers :)21:34
LaserJocknubae: but we need to verify the fixes21:34
nubaeLaserJock: ah :-)21:34
nubaeohhh, u mean like write it on the bug page21:34
LaserJocknubae: an SRU needs 2 acks before being moved to -updates21:34
nubaeok... I can do that21:34
LaserJocknubae: you need to test the packages in -proposed21:34
nubaeso u fixed it for hardy then?21:34
LaserJockyes, both hardy and intrepid21:35
nubaestgraber: yeah but what happens to non local deployments?21:35
LaserJockso enable -proposed, upgrade sugar, and see if the web browser starts up21:35
LaserJockthen report on the bug report21:36
nubaebut it already starts up.... without proposed21:36
LaserJockit shouldn't21:36
nubaewell, maybe I'm using PPAs hang on...21:36
LaserJockcould be21:36
LaserJockthey fixed it in the PPA21:36
LaserJockstgraber: you talk much with the Fedora LTSP folks?21:36
LaserJockI haven't paid much attention lately to how that's all going21:37
nubaehmmm odd, no PPA and no proposed enabled, just updates... and my browse launches...21:39
nubaeLaserJock: what really needs urgent fixing is the abiword dependencies... without that we loose 30% of the apps (read, write, puzzleslider, jiggsaw, etc)21:40
LaserJocknubae: what's the result of apt-cache madison python-hulahop21:41
LaserJocknubae: what do you mean?21:41
nubaejust sec, setting up my thin client for sugar, so I can test properly21:43
stgrabernubae: well, currently the only ltsp-cluster deployments that I heard of are in Canada and the US and that's where we are so ... :)21:45
stgraberLaserJock: I talk with them on IRC from time to time, also talked with some of them at the last LTSP hackfest. Fedora should basically be equivalent to Ubuntu at the moment speaking of LTSP integration.21:46
LaserJockstgraber: is that Fedora itself or K12Linux?21:46
LaserJockor is K12LInux == LTSP in Fedora?21:46
LaserJockyou guys think CMS systems besides moodle would be of interest to educational users?22:03
nubaeschooltool maybe22:03
nubaegah... what causes tftp to timeout again... I've got my test client stopping with tftp open timeout22:03
crimsuncheck the route; make sure there's an active/unfirewalled path.22:04
crimsunLaserJock: in addition to or as a replacement for moodle?22:04
LaserJockin addition to22:04
LaserJockI was just looking at some other distros Edu app lists22:05
LaserJockand like fedora has CMSs like joomla22:05
nubaecrimsun: yeah thanks, was shorewall... masq the wrong way round22:05
nubaewell, joomla isnt really edu based22:05
nubaeand then drupal is better22:06
LaserJockwe have an edubuntu-server metapackage which currently just has moodle22:06
LaserJockI wonder if we could enhance that a bit22:06
nubaefor sure... start with ejabberd and schooltool22:07
LaserJockejabberd would be a good idea22:07
nubaeejabberd is needed for collaboration with sugar and gnome stuff too, definitly essential22:07
nubaeif we want to promote collaboration, which I think is starting get legs now, it would be good to include22:08
LaserJockI don't know what schooltool is up to these days22:08
crimsundoes edubuntu still wish to proceed down "best of class"?22:08
LaserJockin terms of app selection?22:09
crimsunyes. my concern, admittedly possibly unwarranted, is cluttering said namespace.22:09
LaserJockwell, I think perhaps we're heading into sort of a two-pronged approach22:10
LaserJockhaving good, "best of class" defaults, but also having a decent "here's everything edu in Ubuntu"22:10
crimsunpretty sensible22:11
nubaeLaserJock: u're right, I must have tested browse on my other machine from the PPA22:11
nubaeon this machine it doesnt, launch, so I can do a full test22:12
nubaeLaserJock: +1 on what u said above22:12
nubaewe need quality and breadth22:12
LaserJockthere's enough demand for making as much educational stuff available as possible that I don't think it's helpful for us to get totally exclusive22:12
LaserJockhowever, we also can't maintain all apps at a high level22:12
nubaewell, thats where we should find a way around that22:13
LaserJockI doubt we can22:13
nubaewell ubuntu studio does for example22:13
nubaeand its promoted officially by ubuntu22:13
LaserJockno, it doesn't22:13
nubaesure, the apps it uses are not all in main22:13
LaserJockthat's not what I meant22:13
nubaethats the only limitation I saw with us not being able to carry universe apps22:14
LaserJockwhat I mean is that we can't really maintain all edu apps in Ubuntu at a sufficiently high quality22:14
LaserJockwe need to choose some to focus on primarily22:15
nubaesure thing22:15
nubaewe just need to cover all the areas22:15
LaserJockgenerally we do that by moving those to Main, but it doesn't *have* to be that we22:15
nubaemake it usable for a school22:15
nubaeI think that step is just putting too much responsibility on mainly your shoulders22:15
LaserJockwell, right now, regardless it's on my shoulders22:16
LaserJockwe don't have an edu MOTU either22:16
LaserJockhopefully we can fix that though :-)22:16
nubaeyes, but if its in universe then u dont have to move it back and forth22:16
nubaelike the blender story :-)22:16
LaserJockwell, but currently it's a lot easier in terms of the CD to get them into Main22:18
LaserJockand they *should* get better Canonical support22:18
nubaeand you're gonna have a right time with sugar... theres like 100s of apps for it22:18
nubaebut the cd isnt even shipped anymore, do we really wanna focus on that?22:18
LaserJocknot sure22:18
LaserJockI'm not sure what to do with schooltool either :(22:19
nubaehave u looked at its current state?22:19
nubaeu should talk to Tom Hoffman22:19
nubaehe'll be pretty straight about whether he thinks it should be there or not22:19
LaserJockwell, they kinda separated from Edubuntu22:20
LaserJockthey now have a pretty extensive PPA going on22:20
LaserJockit might take some serious work to get that back into Ubuntu proper22:20
nubaeyeah they did that to have seperate areas for development22:21
nubaethere were too many modules that would end up being a massive package22:22
nubaebut they are working on getting back to being able to do just apt-get install schooltool22:22
nubaeI guess until thats the case it should remain out22:22
nubaeLaserJock: for sugar-browse, which packages should I update to test?22:23
LaserJockif you just enable the -proposed repo it should give you a list of upgradable packages22:24
LaserJockit should be python-hulahop and  hulahop22:24
LaserJockor maybe just python-hulahop22:25
nubaeno just hulahop22:26
nubaepython-hulahop was already latest22:26
LaserJocknubae: I think you should do a few MIRs for jaunty22:26
LaserJocknubae: hmm, odd22:26
LaserJocknubae: is that hardy or intrepid?22:26
nubaeMIR = main inclusion report?22:27
LaserJocknubae: yes22:27
LaserJockboth hulahop and python-hulahop should be version 0.4.6-0ubuntu2.122:28
nubaebad news... not working :-)22:29
nubaemaybe I need to reinstall browse for the user in question too22:29
nubaehmmm, then something is wrong cause I have just 222:31
LaserJockthe "bad" one is 2, the fix is 2.122:31
nubaeok, let me list u my proposed packages....22:31
LaserJockdid you enable intrepid-proposed22:31
nubaewait... I need intrepid-proposed universe too I suppose22:32
nubaeheh, the edubuntu main thing has me confused22:32
nubaeI just remembered sugar is in universe of course22:32
* LaserJock thinks the archive reorganization will do nubae good22:33
nubaeso what does doing a MIR involved?22:34
LaserJockread https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess22:35
LaserJockI gotta run22:35
nubaek... any ideas on what I should MIR?22:35
LaserJocksomething you want to see on the CD, something you want us to focus on22:35
nubaek, well blender should be easy22:36
LaserJockoh, bluefish would probably be the easiest22:36
LaserJockto replace screem22:36
LaserJockblender might take a little bit22:36
LaserJockanyway, I just thought it might be fun for you to get a taste for it :-)22:37

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