[00:00] <dashua> Great.
[00:24] <kwwii> Cimi: pong
[00:25] <kwwii> but not for long
[00:26] <Cimi> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/175266/screenshot5.png and http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/175266/screenshot6.png
[00:27] <kwwii> Cimi: yeah, dashua showed me a screen a few minutes ago....nice!
[00:28] <kwwii> Cimi: that is in the latest svn snapshot?
[00:28] <Cimi> yes
[01:58] <tok1> Hallo
[02:00] <tok1> I liked your theme of icons for Ubuntu https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet as it is possible to support this that it have included in new release: and where it is possible to download the Beta the version?
[02:00]  * _MMA_ waves.
[02:01] <_MMA_> tok1: It is a community effort for now and is not official. There is no official release yet but hopefully will be one soon.
[02:03] <tok1> )
[02:04] <_MMA_> If you install bzr from Synaptic, this command will get the code: bzr branch lp:breathe-icon-set
[02:05] <_MMA_> Then run the python script and it will build the set.
[02:07] <tok1> Не удалось найти пакеты, содержащих «breathe-icon-set» в своём имени или описании
[02:07] <tok1> Transfer was not possible to find the packages, containing «breathe-icon-set» in the name or the description
[02:08] <_MMA_> bzr branch lp:breathe-icon-set
[02:08] <_MMA_> That what you used? ^^^
[02:08] <tok1> aptitude
[02:08] <_MMA_> no
[02:09] <tok1> ?
[02:09] <_MMA_> sudo apt-get bzr
[02:09] <_MMA_> then:
[02:09] <_MMA_> bzr branch lp:breathe-icon-set
[02:11] <tok1> I not strongly will understand that from me it is required to make?
[02:11] <tok1> Stop
[02:12] <tok1> I have understood
[02:14] <tok1> root@laptop:/home/tok# bzr branch lp:breathe-icon-set
[02:14] <tok1> You have not informed bzr of your launchpad login. If you are attempting a
[02:14] <tok1> write operation and it fails, run "bzr launchpad-login YOUR_ID" and try again.
[02:14] <tok1> Branched 28 revision(s). What further?
[02:18] <_MMA_> That should be it.
[02:18] <_MMA_> Wait.
[02:19] <_MMA_> There is now a folder called "trunk" in your home folder.
[02:19] <_MMA_> Inside is a python script. You need inkscape installed, then run the script.
[02:21] <tok1> Senks
[19:43] <soc> hi
[20:05] <soc> hi
[20:06] <soc> does someone know which font will be the standard ui font in jaunty?
[20:09] <kwwii> same as now I imagine
[20:10] <kwwii> unless something radical changes
[20:10] <kwwii> why do you ask?
[20:12] <soc> i just wondered if there are thoughts about it ...
[20:13] <soc> because together with that big font size things look a bit bulky after a fresh installation ...
[20:14] <thorwil> yeah, should really use a different font, one that is smaller!!
[20:15] <soc> i proposed droid sans quite some time ago, together with slight hinting ...
[20:16] <soc> droid seems to have a good range of characters, even of asian ones available ...
[20:17] <thorwil> http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-droid-isnt-answer.html
[20:21] <soc> ahh interesting :-)
[20:22] <soc> but that comparison between cosmetica and droid isn't really meant seriously, is it?
[20:22] <thorwil> why?
[20:23] <soc> because a) comsetica is much smaller and has a bigger line-width?
[20:23] <soc> do the same with droid and you might get nearyl the same results :-P
[20:25] <thorwil> soc: obviously the kerning is crap and the characters lack in finesse. what's so great about droid again?
[20:25] <soc> b) comparing a serif font against a sans-serif font and then deciding it is easier to read the serif one isn't quite that surprising ...
[20:25] <soc> droid, obviously, works
[20:27] <soc> the webpage you posted is quite interesting, but the arguments are just way off
[20:27] <soc> no one really applies to the use case
[20:28] <soc> for instance the screenshots with - let's count it - 13! lines of text ... please show me an UI element with _paragraphs_ of text
[20:28] <lucazade> is droid gpl or free?
[20:28] <soc> droid is apache
[20:28] <lucazade> google released it?
[20:29] <soc> 95% of the ui consists of single words, sometimes one-liners
[20:29] <soc> http://review.source.android.com/5401
[20:30] <lucazade> ok
[20:32] <lucazade> i don't think droid is better than dejavu sans, both ugly
[20:32] <thorwil> soc: he doesn't compare sans with serif
[20:33] <kwwii> droid is interesting but mainly only for very small screens
[20:33] <kwwii> I haven't looked into how many character sets it includes
[20:34] <kwwii> but that requirement alone is pretty hard to get around
[20:34] <soc> mhh, i don't want to argue with you, but what would you call the paragraph titled "The Problem with Droid" then?
[20:34] <soc> kwwii: i'm testing droid here on a 24" tft with 93 dpi, so quite the opposite scenario you mentioned ...
[20:35] <lucazade> we need a better font rendering engine more than new font imho
[20:38] <soc> lucazade: that's true
[20:38] <lucazade> following priorities i vote for engine
[20:38] <lucazade> :)
[20:38] <soc> a new rendering engine might be a bit harder to get :-P
[20:39] <soc> although i have no problem with freetype
[20:39] <soc> the rendering of my fonts impresses both people from the windows _and_ the macos camp ...
[20:39] <soc> so i can live with that ,,,
[20:39] <lucazade> i'm not impressed with :S
[20:40] <soc> maybe you could improve some settings ...
[20:40] <lucazade> yes but still dirty and not consistent results
[20:40] <soc> which font, which rendering?
[20:41] <lucazade> sans 8, slight
[20:41] <soc> ok, i wouldn't use sans :-P
[20:41] <lucazade> tried everything
[20:41] <soc> slight is probably the best we can get with freetype at the moment ...
[20:41] <lucazade> i agree
[20:42] <soc> one thing i love when i show my desktop to mac users:
[20:42] <soc> before they see it, i switch the font hinting to off
[20:42] <soc> reaction "uuuhh that just looks like on my macbook"
[20:42] <soc> then i turn on slight hinting ...
[20:43] <soc> "well, can i do that on my apple too?"
[20:43] <lucazade> funny
[20:43] <soc> my equation is:
[20:43] <soc> slight hinting = apple rendering - fuzzy crap around the glyphs
[20:45] <lucazade> we should say thanks to david turner for his patches to font rendering if now ubuntu has got a decent font setting
[20:46] <soc> yes, these patches had quite some effect ...
[20:47] <soc> http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4492/fontcomparisonzu7.png
[20:47] <soc> ahh here, i found it ...
[20:47] <soc> lucazade: maybe you find a font in that screenshot that you linke more
[20:48] <lucazade> mm
[20:48] <lucazade> i can say that droid seems nicer than i remember
[20:50] <soc> the current version is here: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=snapshot;h=6b8721393400f8e98bb6c29d47b38c79be7ade32;sf=tgz
[20:52] <lucazade> trying it now
[20:53] <lucazade> 8px slight 96dpi is too condensed
[20:53] <lucazade> at 100dpi is not so baf
[20:53] <lucazade> *bad
[20:53] <soc> i wouldn't change the dpi
[20:54] <soc> as a rule of thumb: never change the dpi
[20:54] <lucazade> yes just trying
[20:54] <soc> the dpi has something to do with your physicalk size of your display
[20:54] <soc> that thing just won't change within seconds
[20:54] <soc> also, configuring the wrong dpi messes things up with the font rendering
[20:55] <lucazade> ok
[20:55] <lucazade> 8,5px and 96 dpi is something readble here
[20:56] <soc> you can find out your real dpi with
[20:56] <soc>  xdpyinfo | grep resolution
[20:56] <lucazade>   resolution:    95x96 dots per inch
[20:56] <soc> i would suggest setting that dpi in gnome-appearance-properties and don't changing it
[20:56] <lucazade> ;)
[20:56] <soc> you should use the first one, 95
[20:57] <soc> because the second one is the height
[20:57] <lucazade> ok i didn't know
[20:57] <soc> and because normally the subpixels are laid out horicontically, the height doesn't matter
[20:57] <soc> because you have no subpixels there :-)
[20:58] <lucazade> thanks for the explanation
[20:58] <soc> np
[21:01] <soc> do you now by chance what the default font size in ubuntu is?
[21:01] <soc> on a fresh installation?
[21:03] <lucazade> at least 9
[21:04] <soc> mhh, setting the right dpi in gnome-appearance-propteries after start would be a good start ...
[21:05] <lucazade> yes surely
[21:11] <soc> lol ... approx. 5 bugs abput wrong dpi in gnome in launchpad and at least as many brainstorm things as well ...
[21:12] <lucazade> :)
[21:50] <soc> http://www.gnome.org/~federico/news-2007-01.html#font-sizes
[22:29] <_MMA_> kwwii: *PLEASE* for the love of... *something* unsub the artwork team from that damn titlebar bug. It's an nVidia issue in the end.