[00:48] <mcohen> does anyone know how to turn off ome applets that take up memory, make sure they don't start when the computer starts
[00:49] <mcohen> like nm-applet and update-notifier
[00:50] <crimsun> disable them in the session
[00:50] <mcohen> I can kill them, how do I disable them?
[00:51] <crimsun> System> Preferences> Sessions
[00:51] <crimsun> or, you could remove their desktop files from /etc/xdg/autostart/
[00:54] <mcohen> if I'm using xubuntu, I installed edubuntu-desktop which installs ubuntu-desktop
[00:54] <mcohen> that means I now have gnome on my machine right?
[01:00] <crimsun> yes
[01:01] <mcohen> ah k, I can disable gnome startup services then
[01:01] <mcohen> in the interest of lowering memory footprint
[02:38]  * LaserJock reads Brainstorm and gets depressed
[02:48] <mike_> hey there, anyone wanna help me out with a problem
[02:54] <LaserJock> mike__: if you throw out your question somebody may be able to help you
[04:52] <nubae> LaserJock: why is kitten and klettres not in edubuntu
[04:52] <nubae> both are in main
[04:53] <nubae> wait kiten is universe, but klettres is in main
[04:53] <nubae> should be in edubuntu seed
[04:54] <LaserJock> nubae: what release?
[04:54] <nubae> intrepid even
[04:54] <nubae> http://appnr.com/package/klettres
[04:54] <LaserJock> there were some historical reasons I believe
[04:55] <nubae> ok, so maybe for jaunty it should be in there?
[04:55] <LaserJock> perhaps
[04:55] <LaserJock> we need to make sure it's not dropped from KDE
[04:55] <nubae> I'm getting another rule then, just cause its in main, don't mean it goes in edubuntu :p
[04:56] <LaserJock> that's true
[04:56] <LaserJock> it has to be in the seed
[04:56] <nubae> right, just thinking about Jaunty now though
[04:57] <LaserJock> if it's still in Main I think it should be in the seed
[04:57] <LaserJock> so check to make sure it's still there and in Main in Jaunty
[04:58] <nubae> it is
[04:58] <nubae> 4:4.1.85-0ubuntu1: amd64 i386
[04:59] <nubae> I thought a little more about linking something to the version, maybe we should link to the packages.ubuntu.com link?
[05:07] <LaserJock> perhaps
[05:07] <nubae> right well, hardy app list done now too
[05:07] <nubae> I'll upload to the site
[05:08] <LaserJock> cool
[05:30] <nubae> in terms of a web editor replacement for screem, there is also kompozer and quanta, for me, both have had problems, but just thought I'd mention it since bluefish is not a wysiwyg editor
[05:31] <LaserJock> yeah, we should look at what's the best
[05:31] <LaserJock> I would say for each addition/replacement/removal we should start a thread on the mailing list
[05:32] <nubae> ok
[05:32] <LaserJock> I gotta run, getting to be bed time
[05:32] <LaserJock> cya tomorrow most likely
[12:47] <billbalt> edubuntu addons don't  seem to work
[12:47] <billbalt> How do I add the various edubuntu packages
[12:51] <nubae> hmm, not very pacient
[14:47] <nothingman> hi, all
[16:13] <Ahmuck> good morning
[16:31] <highvoltage> hi Ahmuck an LaserJockie
[16:34] <LaserJock> highvoltage!
[16:34] <LaserJock> how's my favorite South African?
[16:35] <highvoltage> :D
[16:35] <highvoltage> doing good thanks. just got out of the pool. the heat was killing me
[16:36] <highvoltage> how are you doing LaserMan?
[16:37] <LaserJock> the heat!
[16:38] <LaserJock> it's been freezing here
[16:38] <LaserJock> just above 0 C right now
[16:40] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I'm surviving. still trying to finish the PhD and save the world ;-)
[16:49] <highvoltage> LaserJock: wow, that's cold. we must swap some C's.
[16:54] <LaserJock> highvoltage: it got to around -15 C at the coldest here so far this winter
[16:55] <LaserJock> but my parents has -31 C
[18:27] <LaserJock> anybody heard of "Shoes", a programming learning environment
[18:27] <LaserJock> ?
[18:32] <alkisg> http://shoooes.net/ - no, I've only heard of scratch, http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Linux_installer
[18:41] <LaserJock> I was just reading an article on educational programming environments
[18:41] <LaserJock> and they mentioned Scratch, Alice, and Shoes
[18:42] <alkisg> This one? http://www.linux.com/feature/155203
[18:42] <alkisg> I've only heard of scratch, it's very good, and better now that they have a linux version! :)
[18:42] <LaserJock> yeah, that's the article
[18:42] <LaserJock> what I liked about Shoes was it was written in Ruby
[18:44] <LaserJock> Scratch is Squeak and Alice is Java
[18:45] <LaserJock> Shoes also seems fairly open source
[18:46] <alkisg> What I liked about scratch is its environment, I haven't tried it in a classroom yet but I think the kids will be interested in it. Fortunately with the new books we're teaching I'll get to try it next year.
[18:49] <LaserJock> yeah, scratch is definitely more geared towards younger users
[18:49] <LaserJock> I think shoes might be good for secondary
[18:51] <alkisg> You know, I'm not yet sure what primary vs secondary vs high school is... Primary = ages 6 to 12, secondary = 12 to 14, and high school = 15 to 17? I'm teaching to 12-14 year old kids...
[18:52] <alkisg> Also, there are some countries where primary = 6 to 10...
[18:52] <LaserJock> secondary is supposed to be roughly high school
[18:52] <LaserJock> I'm not sure where junior high would fit in exactly
[18:53] <alkisg> ...so high school is 15 to 17? and junior high = 12 to 14?
[18:54] <LaserJock> well, that's normally right in the US
[18:55] <LaserJock> not sure in terms of primary, secondary, tertiary where junior high would fit
[18:55] <LaserJock> we might want to put some age ranges on those
[18:55] <alkisg> Ah, ok, so I'm not a secondary school teacher as I thought, I'm teaching in a junior high school! :) Good to know! :P
[18:56] <LaserJock> well, I don't know exactly
[18:56] <alkisg> I don't know if even age ranges will cover it. E.g. we use Lego with kids 12-14 years old, while other countries use Lego only on primary schools
[18:56] <LaserJock> I know elementary would be primary and high school secondary, but the middle I don't know
[18:59] <LaserJock> we might need to ask RichEd
[19:00] <alkisg> Ah, I just asked my wife, she visited the US last year. We have 6 + 3 + 3 years in schools, while you have 5 years elementary, 3 middle school (=junior high) and 4 years high school
[19:02] <Ahmuck> i'd like to see a python learning environment
[19:03] <LaserJock> alkisg: that's right
[19:03] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: that would be very cool indeed
[19:04] <alkisg> Ahmuck: Yeah, me too.
[19:04] <LaserJock> we did have work on a python teaching app that would "grade" python
[19:05] <alkisg> Ahmuck: did you manage to solve your network problems?
[19:06] <Ahmuck> not yet.  i dropped back to thin clients for the time being
[19:06] <alkisg> Ah, ok
[19:06] <Ahmuck> now that the fat client script is bug free, i'm going to try a test in a vm first
[19:06] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: what were you going to use fat clients for?
[19:07] <Ahmuck> then if i get good networking there, i may backup users directories and overwrite the system
[19:07] <Ahmuck> artrage, blender, kdenlive, etc.
[19:07] <LaserJock> and not do local apps?
[19:07] <Ahmuck> what do local apps
[19:08] <Ahmuck> SDL is a problem
[19:08] <Ahmuck> i'm looking at a number of apps, and i've tried them on the tihin client side, and they don't work
[19:09] <Ahmuck> but blender did not work on the fat client side either
[19:09] <Ahmuck> i've got mixed feelings about ltsp
[19:10] <alkisg> I think when multiseat is ready, it'll be much more powerfull than ltsp
[19:10] <alkisg> But 'till then, ltsp is fine for non-graphic intensive applications
[19:14] <Ahmuck> shoes looks so kewl
[19:14] <Ahmuck> multiseat ?
[19:14] <Ahmuck> i'm really after multi-seat
[19:14] <Ahmuck> if i can't get that, then ltsp fat clients
[19:17] <LaserJock> local apps should give you decent results for graphic-intensive apps though shouldn't it?
[19:18] <Ahmuck> it may, i don't know.  i've not tried local apps
[19:18] <Ahmuck> artrage is a windows program via wine
[19:18] <Ahmuck> it's slower, but it does work
[19:18] <LaserJock> I would think you'd try local apps before fat clients
[19:19] <Ahmuck> really?
[19:19] <Ahmuck> did nubae drop out of the fat client arena?
[19:19] <Ahmuck> did i miss something?
[19:19] <LaserJock> I don't know
[19:19] <Ahmuck> one of the problems iwth thin clients is SDL
[19:20] <Ahmuck> i'm having problems with that
[19:20] <LaserJock> right, but local apps are local apps
[19:20] <LaserJock> I would think it would help
[20:05] <highvoltage> LaserJock: -15C? -31C? that's insane!
[20:05] <nothingman> hey, you were talking about educational programming environments
[20:05]  * highvoltage didn't realise such cold places can be inhabitable
[20:05] <nothingman> Guido von Robot is one in python
[20:06] <nothingman> I use that with my students
[20:06] <nothingman> kind of fun, making up the worlds in it
[20:06] <nothingman> a good challenge besides the actual instruction part
[20:07] <LaserJock> nothingman: cool
[20:08] <LaserJock> highvoltage: it's only that cold for a while
[20:09] <nothingman> LaserJock, it's that cold where you live?
[20:09] <nothingman> I mean, I'm in upstate NY, and it's not that bad here :-P
[20:10] <nothingman> relatedly, has anyone seen today's XKCD?
[20:11] <LaserJock> nothingman: it was that cold at my parents house in MT
[20:11] <LaserJock> it was -15C here
[20:12] <Ahmuck> LaserJock: point me to local apps?
[20:12] <Ahmuck> btw, shoooes looks really neat
[20:16] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: stgraber would be the best to talk to
[20:17] <highvoltage> nothingman: today's xkcd was awesome :)
[20:18] <LaserJock> I haven't had "spit goes clunk" but I've had it basically freeze before hitting the ground
[20:20] <Ahmuck> is there a place to download them?
[20:20] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: download what?
[20:20] <Ahmuck> er, download "local app:
[20:20] <LaserJock> it's a part of LTSP
[20:20] <Ahmuck> ack, my typing is terrible today
[20:20] <Ahmuck> ah, ok.  i'm fumble around
[20:21] <LaserJock> you basically install the apps into the chroot
[20:21] <LaserJock> so they are available on the client
[20:26] <nothingman> LaserJock: isn't that just the fat client Ahmuck was trying to make?
[20:26] <nothingman> I might be confused
[20:27] <LaserJock> they're a bit different I think
[20:27] <LaserJock> a fat client has a hard drive and a local install of the OS
[20:28] <LaserJock> but often gets $HOME from the server and things like that
[20:28] <Ahmuck> um, not nubae's fat client
[20:28] <Ahmuck> it uses the proc and mem from the client, but everything else is done on the server
[20:28] <LaserJock> ah, then he's actually doing local apps
[20:28] <Ahmuck> and it can use a swap partition on the client as well
[20:31] <nothingman> oic
[20:38] <Ahmuck> iirc, local apps allow you to customize the app menu so that you can have fat and thin clients booting
[20:39] <LaserJock> well, my history of it is that what you call "fat clients" is local apps
[20:40] <LaserJock> which includes the app menu working right
[20:41] <LaserJock> the use of fat clients I'm used to is to mean a client which has a hard drive and locally installed OS, but relies on the server for some services
[22:13] <LinusU> Hellu
[22:14] <LinusU> Anyone that can help with local apps on ltsp?
[22:21] <LaserJock> LinusU: you can ask your question here or perhaps even better would be #ltsp
[22:32] <LinusU> thx