[00:00] <steveire> So is deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members-kde4/ubuntu hardy main the ppa for nightly ?
[00:01] <steveire> Oh, or deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/project-neon/ubuntu hardy main
[00:02] <Nightrose> hardy is no longer supported
[00:02] <Nightrose> intrepid is current for neon
[00:02] <apachelogger> stdin: nightly only gets built for latest stable kubuntu
[00:02] <steveire> Right, I'm just copy+pasting from links, http://forum.kde.org/-solved-kde4-beta-repository-t-6284.html
[00:02] <apachelogger> steveire:^
[00:02] <steveire> Ok, that's cool.
[00:02] <apachelogger> steveire: comes with headers built in
[00:02] <apachelogger> and seperate -dbg packages
[00:03] <apachelogger> updated in a 3 day cycle (if nothing breaks ;-)
[00:03] <apachelogger> deploying new qt as necessary
[00:03] <steveire> apachelogger: OK, sounds cool. So for someone trying to get into kde development it could simplify things greatly right?
[00:04] <apachelogger> steveire: at least one Amarok dev uses it ;-)
[00:04] <apachelogger> also since it sandboxes to .kde-neon it makes testing a lot easier
[00:04] <steveire> :) It's something that I think should get more coverage on techbase
[00:04] <apachelogger> and there is a special build script to ensure everything gets built against the correct stack
[00:05] <apachelogger> steveire: feel free to write something :P
[00:05] <steveire> Oh, cool, that was going to be another question. Where does it install things? The standard kubuntu locations or somewhere different?
[00:05] <apachelogger> /opt/kde-nightly
[00:05] <apachelogger> it is designed to be used along a stable KDE installation
[00:05] <steveire> And I think I read somewhere that it is also available on other distros?
[00:06] <apachelogger> nope, only kubuntu due to lack of other maintainers
[00:06] <apachelogger> but the underlying script is designed to support more distros
[00:06] <steveire> Oh, what makes it designed as so? Do you mean it won't conflict with another installation?
[00:07] <steveire> I *think* opensuse makes weeklys available.
[00:07] <apachelogger> opensuse's replace a stable installation though :P
[00:07] <steveire> I wouldn't want to recommend that...
[00:08] <apachelogger> me neither, opensuse's builds are mostly created to keep their distribution packaging up-to-date and thus decrease the amount of work they have to do when a KDE release becomes available
[00:09] <steveire> OK, so instead of pointing someone to http://techbase.kde.org/Getting_Started/Build/KDE4, I'll create a page for project neon and recommend that for new developers.
[00:09] <apachelogger> \o/
[00:10] <steveire> They'll still have to do some setup, but probably don't have to set up a separate account as the config dir is different.
[00:11] <steveire> They'll have to set some env vars to put /opt/kde-nightly/{include,lib} in front.
[00:12] <apachelogger> neonmake takes care of this
[00:12] <steveire> apachelogger: In what way?
[00:12] <apachelogger> it is a wrapper around cmake&&make&&make install
[00:12] <apachelogger> setting env vars beforehand
[00:13] <apachelogger> creating build dir etc.
[00:13] <steveire> Any other useful tools there?
[00:14] <apachelogger> don't think so, the others are amarok focused
[00:14] <steveire> Where does it create a build dir? ./build?
[00:14] <apachelogger> yes
[00:16] <steveire> So, for someone who wanted to join the kdepim team and was just getting started, I could tell them to get kdebase etc from the ppa, then svn co kdepim and focus on that.
[00:16] <steveire> Grand. So it will be
[00:16] <steveire> Will you help writing the page, or reviewing my drafts?
[00:16] <apachelogger> reviewing shouldn't be a problem
[00:17] <steveire> I understand :)
[00:17] <apachelogger> can probably also help a bit ;-)
[00:17] <steveire> cool so.
[00:19] <steveire> apachelogger: Does it break often? Early in the release cycle I imagine if anything.
[00:19] <steveire> And does it have a homepage?
[00:21] <apachelogger> https://edge.launchpad.net/project-neon
[00:21] <apachelogger> basically never breaks ;-)
[00:22] <apachelogger> I only recommend updates once the stack is built on a new release
[00:22] <apachelogger> after that only file conflicts occur from time to time, which need to be corrected manually with a dpkg --force-overwrite FILETHATCONFLICTS
[00:23] <steveire> ' I only recommend updates once the stack is built on a new release' Sorry, I don't understand this. Could you rephrase?
[00:23] <steveire> dont update every 3-4 days?
[00:26] <apachelogger> example: once 9.04 comes out project-neon might not be fully built/tested and thus 8.10 will continue to be supported until all (if any) issues are sorted out on 9.04, once it works on 9.04 the 8.10 building will be stopped and 9.04 becomes the supported release
[00:32] <apachelogger> luckily build-deps don't bump that far most of the time ;-)
[00:32] <steveire> Yeah, it's not too bad.
[00:33] <steveire> So, if the package backports without much issue, it is installed to the regular kubuntu location, replacing the universe version?
[00:33] <apachelogger> yes
[00:34] <apachelogger> though, TBH I only backported once (libmsn) and that wasn't available in 8.10
[00:34] <apachelogger> I prefer the option where a new package gets created because it is saver and cleaner in general
[00:35] <steveire> Yeah, I'd agree there. What about translations?
[00:36] <steveire> Is it English only?
[00:36] <apachelogger> yes
[00:37] <steveire> OK, grand.
[00:38] <steveire> I don't know much about that kind of thing. If I install stable i18n packages for German, say, and project neon, will neon use available translated strings or not at all?
[00:40] <apachelogger> hm, never tried
[00:40] <apachelogger> /home/me/.kde-neon/share/locale/:/opt/kde-nightly/share/locale/
[00:40] <apachelogger> steveire: nope
[00:40] <apachelogger> but a l10n tarball can be easy enough built and installed using neonmake
[00:40] <steveire> User documentation?
[00:41] <apachelogger> only english
[00:41] <steveire> Only english docs?
[00:41] <apachelogger> standard KDE documentation as shipped along the source
[00:41] <apachelogger> steveire: docs would be part of l10n tarballs as well
[00:42] <steveire> OK.
[00:43] <apachelogger> Nightrose: KDE has a bogus mime spec implementation
[00:43]  * apachelogger got lost 4 times before he found the stuff he was looking for
[00:43] <Nightrose> :/
[00:43]  * Nightrose is tired
[00:44] <apachelogger> +1
[00:44] <steveire> me too.
[00:44] <apachelogger> Nightrose: btw, does amarok have a bug squad?
[00:44] <Nightrose> yes mark seb and me
[00:44] <Nightrose> :P
[00:45] <apachelogger> you could cleanup the amarok ubuntu bugs
[00:45] <apachelogger> amarok almost got as many bugs as kdepim
[00:45] <Nightrose> i certainly don't have time for that :(
[00:45] <Nightrose> and i doubt seb and mark do
[00:46]  * apachelogger lets it rot further then
[00:46] <apachelogger> I think JontheEchidna is closing all of it once amarok2 is imported anyway
[00:46] <Nightrose> *nod*
[00:46] <Nightrose> fine with me
[00:47] <crimsun> since i already triage a craptonne of bugs, i'm happy to help triage amarok bugs. just let me know any particular pointers.
[00:47] <crimsun> the audio stack part is cakewalk, but anything above that into Qt-land and KDE-lands i appreciate pointers.
[00:48] <apachelogger> crimsun: we better get amarok2 in the archives first
[00:48] <crimsun> concur
[00:49] <apachelogger> then we can pretty much close everything that is amarok1-only, since it is unmaintained upstream and we don't have the resources to fix the remaining issues anyway
[00:51] <steveire> Are the kdegames and kdeedu modules not available on neon?
[00:51] <apachelogger> steveire: edu is since last week, games is still not
[00:52] <steveire> OK, cool. Not giving out, just documenting :).
[00:52] <apachelogger> well, I can add stuff easy enough upon request
[00:53] <apachelogger> I just didn't want to have all of KDE built while some of the modules don't get used at all
[00:54] <steveire> Sure. I agree. Wait for the requests and then grab on to the requesters and draw them in :)
[00:59] <steveire> apachelogger: Does it change the $PATH at all? I mean if I don't install the kdebase nightly, but only the kdepim nightly, I'll want to run the stable version usually and the nightly version only when I choose to. I'll probably write some bash functions to switch around if neccesary.
[01:01] <apachelogger> it's rpathed, thus /opt/kde-nightly/bin/kmail would be enough
[01:01] <steveire> rpath?
[01:02] <apachelogger> it might mess with some tmp/cache files though, there isn't much testing going on since it's major purpose is to run a complete session
[01:02] <apachelogger> steveire: hardcoded library paths
[01:02] <steveire> Oh, so it knows how to find the correct nighly libraries.
[01:02] <apachelogger> yes
[01:02] <steveire> Right
[01:49] <seele> brr.. too much schnapps in this drink
[02:02] <Sput> :D
[02:02]  * Sput just had beer
[02:02] <Sput> gnight
[02:05] <seele> 'night
[03:03] <JontheEchidna> is lists.ubuntu.com down for any of you guys?
[03:03] <nixternal> yup
[03:09] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: What are you trying to find there?
[03:10] <JontheEchidna> Oh, I use that to view all of the kubuntu-bugs bugmail so that I don't have to deal with a crapton of email in kmail every day
[03:10] <JontheEchidna> I still do read all of it :P
[03:10] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: Ok. That is one mailing list I don't subscribe to ;)
[03:10] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[03:19] <ScottK> Just tossed my "Notifications - please don't fix them for KDE" post to planet ....
[03:19] <vorian> nixternal, have you tried choqok?
[03:20] <nixternal> can't say that I have
[03:20] <vorian> it's in the new queue, it's ver niceish (twitter client)
[03:21] <nixternal> looks nice
[03:21] <nixternal> wish there was a client with both twitter and identi.ca, as I have different followers and some people who only use identi.ca
[03:22] <vorian> the author is willing to adjust it to work with identi.ca as well
[03:22] <vorian> I think it'll turn out to be a nice client
[03:25] <nixternal> looks good, no doubt
[03:26]  * nhandler is still waiting for a ncurses identi.ca client
[03:26] <ScottK> Personally I don't get the whole micro-blogging thing.
[03:26] <Hobbsee> ScottK: it was useful at UDS
[03:26] <vorian> i try to get into it every month or so
[03:26] <Hobbsee> but it's a bit odd outside of that, it seems.
[03:26] <ScottK> Posting - "Just finished a two hour blow-up with my 17 year-old step daughter and I'm tired" doesn't seem so useful.
[03:27] <JontheEchidna> my life is too boring for micro-blogging
[03:27] <ScottK> Hobbsee: That's kind of a special case.
[03:27] <JontheEchidna> IRC is sufficient if anything of interest happens
[03:27] <nixternal> vorian: I am the same way
[03:27] <Hobbsee> ScottK: indeed.
[03:28] <nixternal> I have the accounts, but I rarely update or follow them unless I am at some event where everyone else is doing it and I get reminded again
[03:29] <nhandler> ScottK: I just read through your blog post
[03:30] <ScottK> nhandler: Comments?
[03:33] <nhandler> ScottK: I have a lot of the same feelings as you. Personally, queueing notifications seems like the most useless idea I have heard in a while. If I am hilighted in IRC, getting the notification, even a minute later means it is too late to respond (in most channels). I also think being able to click on them is natural, but annoying. I would prefer something that is easier and smoother than clicking on a tiny window in the corner of the scr
[03:33] <vorian> i gotta try out quassel
[03:33] <Hobbsee> corner of the scr
[03:33] <nhandler> vorian: So do I. Although for the time being, irssi does meet my needs
[03:34] <nhandler> Hobbsee: ??? Did it get cut off?
[03:35] <ScottK> nhandler: Unless corner of the scr was then end of what you wrote, yes.
[03:35] <Hobbsee> nhandler: yes
[03:35]  * Hobbsee giggles at ScottK
[03:35] <nhandler> ScottK: Ok, I'll resend the rest of it. irssi didn't show it getting cut off
[03:36] <Hobbsee> nhandler: splitlines.pl, or something similar.  find it.  use it.  ;)
[03:36] <nhandler> 19:39 <+ibuclaw> !pwned > PriceChild
[03:36] <nhandler> (ignore that)
[03:36] <JontheEchidna> !pwned > JontheEchidna
[03:36] <nhandler> corner of the screen. However, I am unable to think of a better idea right now. I also disagree with the way canonical is going about implementing this feature.
[03:37] <nhandler> Bring a team in to create it just seems wrong. I would probably be less against it if the team was open and available on irc to interact with, but a private team just seems to go against the ubuntu philosophy
[03:37] <nhandler> JontheEchidna: It was a custom factoid in a bot I made for another channel
[03:37] <JontheEchidna> ah, lol
[03:37] <Hobbsee> nhandler: are you sure it *is* a private team?
[03:38] <Hobbsee> nhandler: a lot of them aren't, but aren't saying "we're inviting all FOSS people to participate either"
[03:38] <ScottK> Hobbsee: It's not particularly public if is is brought up as discussed at UDS and yet there were no sessions on it.
[03:39] <seele> nhandler: i think the team is too new to know that they should have a public/online presence
[03:39] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i never said that canonical were doing the right thing in publicising it.  What i'm saying is that unless these things are marked ZOMGPRIVATE, (in which case, you probably wouldn't know of it's existance), they're probably open enough if you say you'd like to help
[03:39] <seele> ScottK: yes, and they also realised what a stupid mistake that was and hopefully they wont do it again
[03:39] <nhandler> seele: The team was made by canonical, I don't think you can call canonical new
[03:39] <Hobbsee> ScottK: and also, they can be prodded into making things public, if they're private, and shouldn't be.
[03:40] <seele> nhandler: no, but a lot of the new people are new to the whole open source thing and how people work online
[03:40] <ScottK> Right.  Well that's why I asked if anyone was working on a KDE implemetation we'd really like to know.
[03:40] <seele> ScottK: dbus interface, the DX team is going to work with KDE on creating a "new" fdo spec
[03:41] <seele> which features such as interaction can be configured to be on or off
[03:41] <seele> nhandler: several of the new people were weeks and days new.  not six months new
[03:42] <nhandler> seele: I guess I just feel that since it is a Canonical team, we shouldn't be having these "learning periods".
[03:42] <ScottK> seele: I don't buy that as an excuse.  For the individuals, sure, but not for Canonical as a whole.
[03:42] <seele> nhandler: why?  it isn't unreasonable that they have to train people in their corporate culture
[03:42]  * Hobbsee notes that canonical has traditionally not gotten this right, in various cases.
[03:43] <ScottK> seele: My fear is they have.
[03:43] <Hobbsee> look at the release team, or archive teams, or various other of the ubuntu teams for eg, that are dominated by canonical people
[03:43] <nhandler> seele: Training people is one thing. But establishing basic things like an irc channel, or even a mailing list is another thing
[03:43] <ScottK> Release team seems to have gotten more open.
[03:43] <seele> ScottK: KDE and GNOME wont be forced to use it and it will be Canonical's fault for not involving them from the start and screwing it up
[03:43] <seele> ScottK: but i think that is something they've learned and will be more careful about in the future
[03:43] <ScottK> I hope we won't be forced to use it.
[03:44] <Hobbsee> ScottK: oh, it has now.  But we won't mention how long it took, and how difficult it was (on both sides of the fence) to obtain that.
[03:44]  * nhandler goes to finish up some work before his break ends tomorrow
[03:44] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Agreed.
[03:45] <seele> ScottK: i am doubtful we will get a choice, especially since Canonical has pledge to support Kubuntu more seriously (such as hiring 1, maybe 2 KDE/Qt developers)
[03:45] <Hobbsee> ScottK: the teams certainly get better, but they don't seem to get it right from the start, a lot of the time
[03:45]  * vorian notes that Scot.tK's notices must be going berzerk atm
[04:06] <nixternal> jeesh it is noisey in here
[04:07] <Hobbsee> did we wake the old vista-loving man up from his afternoon nap?  ;)
[04:08] <nixternal> it is 22:08 here, way past afternoon
[04:08] <nixternal> but you just reminded me that I need to get off of my ass and go switch out my laundry :)
[04:09] <Hobbsee> haha
[04:09] <Hobbsee> i guess i'ts afternoon here, so..
[04:12] <seele> the internet has no time zone
[04:13] <Hobbsee> yes it does
[04:13] <Hobbsee> "morning"
[04:14] <seele> i was thinking "late at night. always"
[04:17] <nixternal> jeesh, with all the laundry I have, it is almost like the last time I did it was over a month ao
[04:17] <nixternal> ago
[04:30] <ScottK> seele: Until said developers are hired and working, it's all just theory.
[04:31] <ScottK> That and if someone uploads a bunch of unspec'ed patches that change us away from upstream without discussion, I've got no compunction at all about reverting it.
[04:34] <seele> ScottK: have a little faith.  They will be hired.  it doesn't make sense to do it at this point in the cycle
[04:34] <ScottK> seele: Sure, but the notifications thing was pitched for this cycle.
[04:34] <seele> and if patches get as far as uploaded then i'd say it is a bit too late to make a decision about
[04:34] <seele> ScottK: not for kubuntu.  only ubuntu
[04:35] <ScottK> OK.  I read it as for both.
[04:35] <seele> i'm 90% sure that it is only ubuntu, although it will probably be expected for kubuntu in jaunty+1
[04:36] <seele> ScottK: there aren't resources to do it for kubuntu.  we don't have our developers yet, remember
[04:36] <ScottK> Right.  For once I'm glad we're left out.
[04:37] <ScottK> Also, I've reverted bad uploads before.
[04:37] <nixternal> iirc, I thought one was getting offered a spot with the KDE side of Canonical while we were at UDS...JR said quite a few people applied too, which I was kind of fearing wouldn't happen
[04:37] <seele> ScottK: bad uploads directed by sabdfl?
[04:37] <ScottK> I even got a UDS session in my honor.
[04:37] <ScottK> seele: Sure.  He's not perfect.
[04:38] <seele> nixternal: i still don't think he would start right away.  david was saying there would be too much catch up with feature freeze so close, and then nothing to do
[04:38] <nixternal> right
[04:39] <nixternal> is david the desktop track guy?
[04:39] <nixternal> I can't remember
[04:39] <ScottK> We have a process for specs and such and if someone ignores it and uploads, then it's fair game no matter who told them to do it.
[04:39] <seele> nixternal: desktop experience.  rick is the desktop team
[04:39] <nixternal> ahh rich
[04:39] <nixternal> rick spencer was in our meetings right?
[04:39] <nixternal> he was doing the gobby stuff
[04:40] <seele> julian is the use experience lead.. or whatever the thought bubble design group is called
[04:40]  * ScottK pretty much writes the whole thing off to why I like KDE and not Gnome anyway.
[04:40] <nixternal> and running the camera and keeping us on track :)
[04:40] <seele> yes, that was rick, david is the french guy.. he was in a lot of sessions too but he wasn't leading them
[04:40] <seele> no kidding.  he must be the most effective project manager/meeting manager i've ever met
[04:41]  * ScottK ponders the changelog entry.
[04:41] <ScottK> * Revery bad patch that broke notifications.
[04:41] <ScottK> Rervery/Revert
[04:42] <seele> * Rereverted notifications patch.  Works as coded.  Coded as intended
[04:42]  * seele giggles.  She's seen a repatch note like that before..
[04:43] <ScottK> Yeah.
[04:43] <nixternal> lol
[04:43] <ScottK> Well I think Canonical has a lot of work to do with KDE upstream on the entire question.
[04:44] <ScottK> Even if I liked the idea, I'm not sure we should maintain it as a Kubuntu patch without some upstream support to integrate it at some point.
[04:44] <seele> and they are working with upstream for the dbus part. the actual default configuration is left to be seen
[04:45] <seele> if notifications matter enough to canonical, i dont think we'll have a choice in the end
[04:45] <seele> it's not like ubuntu has a choice.  theyre getting it.
[04:45] <ScottK> Right, but Ubuntu is primarily developed by Canonical.
[04:46] <seele> right, and canonical is soon to be supporting more kde development which will be expected to go in to kubuntu
[04:46] <ScottK> Although Canonical certainly supports Kubuntu development, I think it's primarily a community effort.
[04:46] <ScottK> My immediate reaction is that they are welcome to expect that.
[04:46] <ScottK> If it's any good, I'm sure it will.
[04:46] <seele> sure.. but at some point canonical could invest so much in to kubuntu that they get executive power over it
[04:46] <seele> and it is a community project second
[04:47] <seele> who knows if that will happen, but it is a possibility
[04:47] <ScottK> Sure.  When that happens, it happens.
[04:47] <seele> don't be surprised if it happens in jaunty+1
[04:49] <ScottK> Once they are primarily pulling the train, then it's reasonable they get to drive.
[04:53] <seele> not much driving on one way tracks :)
[04:55] <nixternal> I am so glad you are going to be getting the obama bs now ScottK and seele
[04:55] <nixternal> he has messed up chicago with his security details for to long..and being employed and working in the city, I am so happy to see him go!
[04:56] <nixternal> no more sitting on the train for 45 minues just so he can pass under a bridge in rush hour traffic
[04:56] <ScottK> Heh.  DC is pretty used to it.
[04:56] <nixternal> not obama style they aren't
[04:56] <nixternal> remember his security detail is twice the size of any other former president
[04:57] <seele> it will certainly be tighter than normal
[04:57] <seele> but seriously, this is DC
[04:57] <seele> we expect it
[04:57] <seele> we get foreign nationals with more security than bush
[04:57] <nixternal> did you see where they shut down the metra in dc today because he was coming in?
[04:57] <nixternal> we laughed here in chicago
[04:57] <seele> the inaguration is going to be insane
[04:58] <seele> i plan on stocking up on milk and bread before the weekend and hiding until it's all over
[04:58] <nixternal> hahahahahaha
[04:59] <seele> i dont want to be anywhere near tourists
[04:59] <seele> the cherry blossom festival and the summer are bad enough
[04:59] <seele> and we're getting all of them ON THE SAME DAY
[05:00] <seele> i feel bad for anyone who has to go to work that day.  everyone i know is off though
[05:00] <nixternal> I actually enjoy the cherry blossom festival..the blossoms are beautiful
[05:00] <seele> the city is going to be in a state of emergency, there will be just too many people
[05:00] <seele> oh i do too
[05:00] <nixternal> my grandmother had one in her yard when I was growing up, so I have always liked them
[05:00] <seele> what i hate are the fucking tourists who dont know how to get on and off the train
[05:00] <nixternal> I tried to keep one, but it kicked the bucket on me :(
[05:00] <nixternal> hahaha
[05:01] <seele> i'm so glad i dont work in town anymore
[05:01] <nixternal> shit, in chicago, if you don't know how to get off a train, they will show you
[05:01] <nixternal> I mean shove you :)
[05:01] <seele> you have all the suits running effecient metro traffic
[05:01] <seele> then all these fat old people in shorts and hats not letting the people OUT of the train before they get in
[05:01] <seele> seriously, how do you think we're going to make room for you if you dont let us OFF THE TRAIN
[05:02] <seele> and STAND RIGHT WALK LEFT
[05:02] <seele> dont stand in a group on a really fucking long escalator and make someone ten minutes late because they had to ride the entire way up
[05:03] <nixternal> ya, I see that every morning getting on the train...and I talk trash to the people doing it too...let them know I think they are stupid
[05:03] <seele> AND USE THE CROSSWALKS
[05:03] <ScottK> The main thing I remember about the train in Chicago is asking directions.
[05:03] <nixternal> I know it isn't nice, btu you have to
[05:03] <nixternal> asking directions?
[05:03] <nixternal> the train only goes in one direction :p
[05:03] <seele> jesus fucking christ.. DC is a CITY. we WALK all over the place.  if you don't want hit by a FUCKING car. USE THE CROSSWALK
[05:03] <ScottK> I was told, "That way is South.  Don't go south.  If you go south, you won't come back."
[05:04] <ScottK> Technically this was the El.
[05:04] <seele> i dont mind giving directions.. it keeps people going in the right direction instead of stopping in the middle of a swarm of people and trying to paddle upstream
[05:04] <seele> nixternal: you've been on the metro during rush hour, you know how metro center and gallery place operate
[05:04] <seele> if you get swept up in the wrong crowd going in the wrong direction, you aint getting nowhere
[05:04] <nixternal> hahaha, so true
[05:05] <nixternal> the same thing with union station if you don't kow your way out of the tunnels
[05:05] <seele> like i said.  milk. bread. locked doors.
[05:05] <nixternal> rofl
[05:34] <crimsun> actually, i experienced a worse one a couple nights ago during the caps game
[05:35] <crimsun> gal pl, metro center, even mt vernon sq/7th st conv center were jammed
[05:35] <nixternal> heh, I just finished reading through the comments on sabdfl's post about the notification stuff...it seems the old osx users like the idea, whereas everyone else doesn't
[05:36] <crimsun> and yeah, inauguration weekend is going to be even worse. i can't believe metro is pulling its "don't stay open 24 hours" mess
[05:36] <nixternal> I take it growl is an osx thing?
[05:36] <nixternal> also, someone posted mumbles which *looks* nice
[05:36] <nixternal> crimsun: chicago has been doing the "you have to close at 9pm" thing here, so get ready for it!
[05:37] <crimsun> well, there's rumor of bars staying open til 4 or 5 am that week
[05:37] <nixternal> which is funny, considering all of the security that has been in the loop, the crime down there has risen
[06:31] <Hobbsee> hmm.  it's certainly interesting to see how opensuse does kde4.
[10:15] <Tonio_> hi and happy new year everyone :)
[10:16] <Tonio_> Riddell: finally moved to the appartment ;) but still no internet at home for about 10 days
[10:31] <Hobbsee> hey Tonio_!
[10:36] <apachelogger> Tonio_: heya, when do you plan to import kpackagekit into jaunty?
[10:36] <apachelogger> would be good to have it on the CD for next release
[10:45] <Tonio_> apachelogger: soon :) as soon as I have internet at home
[10:45] <apachelogger> oh kay ^_^
[10:47] <apachelogger> Nightrose: is lfranchi worth 8 sloc?
[10:47] <Nightrose> probably yes
[10:47] <Nightrose> why?
[10:51] <apachelogger> Nightrose: multiple tars
[10:51] <apachelogger> but actually it is more than 8
[10:51] <Nightrose> :)
[10:51]  * Nightrose hugs apachelogger
[10:51] <apachelogger> unless you want to rename the tars yourself
[10:51] <apachelogger> then it would be 8 lines
[10:51] <Nightrose> *nod*
[10:52]  * Nightrose goes back to some wii fit
[10:52] <apachelogger> lol
[10:53] <apachelogger> I am working my arse off and you are doing casual gaming :P
[11:04] <Nightrose> hey this is also working your ass off...
[11:04] <Nightrose> in the true meaning of the words
[11:04] <Nightrose> :P
[11:39] <Sput> Nightrose: stop lying to yourself :)
[11:41] <Nightrose> pfft
[12:23] <apachelogger> Nightrose: that release stuff is non-trivial
[12:23] <Nightrose> :/
[12:24] <apachelogger> it probably makes most sense to hack around it
[12:24] <apachelogger> add a new argument to the script
[12:24] <Nightrose> k
[12:25] <apachelogger> that requires you to run the script twice to get 2 tarballs, but hax0ring this bares a high possability of bugs
[12:25] <Nightrose> alright
[13:46] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: is bug 296666 caused by that xrendr patch?
[13:46] <JontheEchidna> yus, there's a master bug in workspace that that is duplicate of
[13:47] <JontheEchidna> *that it is duplicate of
[13:47] <apachelogger> please duplicate :P
[13:47] <apachelogger> and comment on the 3gib kdm.log bug
[13:47]  * apachelogger needs to take the dog for a walk before it gets dark
[13:47] <apachelogger> AFK
[14:46] <ScottK2> ScottK-laptop: Ping.
[15:09] <etretyak> Hi guys! Is there any other page like this one https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UbuntuFeatureParity which contains features implemented in Ubuntu and not yet implemented in Kubuntu? Because I think this list should be much bigger... :(
[15:15] <etretyak> Also is there any news about new Notifications represented an USD? As I understand Canonical has hired some developers to implement this functionality both for Ubuntu and Kubuntu.
[15:15] <ScottK> etretyak: There is also https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuJauntyGapAnalysis
[15:15] <jjesse-dell9> etretyak: i know there has not been a KDE hire yet and there is some progress being made not quite sure how much is getting done
[15:15] <jjesse-dell9> there might be a mailing list or something for the DX team to discuss on but dont know for sure
[15:20] <etretyak> ScottK: so do we need to update KubuntuJauntyGapAnalysis? For example knetworkmanager doesn't have VPN pptp configuration. And it is fully works in Ubuntu.
[15:20] <etretyak> jjesse-dell9: were you able to setup VPN connection in Kubuntu? i've read your blog :)
[15:20] <jjesse-dell9> etretyak: pptp VPN works fine in Ubuntu with network manager?  i havent gotten mine to work yet :(
[15:20] <seele> technically the gap analysis is Kubuntu Intrepid to Kubuntu Jaunty, not Kubuntu to Ubuntu.
[15:21] <jjesse-dell9> i get a message from netowk manager and no logs yet
[15:21] <seele> practically it is a list of anything we might need in Jaunty
[15:21] <ScottK> seele: It's a bit of both (e.g. Guest Session).
[15:22] <seele> right.. the practically part.  we didn't go through a list of haves and have nots between kubuntu and ubuntu during the session
[15:25] <ScottK-desktop> ScottK-laptop: Ping
[15:25] <ScottK-desktop> ScottK-laptop: Ping again
[15:26] <etretyak> What about DX team? Are they responsible to patch all KDE specific apps to be able to handle new Notifications?
[15:26] <etretyak> And what about DesktopTeam? Are they working only on Ubuntu improvements?
[15:27] <jjesse-dell9> etretyak: i think there are still a lot of un answered questions a lot of people still have
[15:28] <ScottK> etretyak: Desktop Team == Ubuntu Desktop (e.g. Gnome).
[15:30] <etretyak> ScottK: i see. so we still follow our own way.. ;)
[15:31] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger, ScottK, Riddell: could somebody review/sponsor the debdiff for bug 211839?
[15:32] <apachelogger> etretyak: current information suggest that DX team will try to reach consesus with gnome and kde to get stuff implemented upstream ... if that is not possible DX team will maintain patches
[15:33] <apachelogger> so there isn't much change for us, just that eventually there should be a couple of monster patches appearing
[15:34] <etretyak> lol
[15:34] <ScottK-desktop> ScottK-laptop: Ping
[15:35] <ScottK-desktop> ScottK-laptop: Ping again
[15:35] <ScottK-desktop> ScottK-laptop: Ping again
[15:37] <ScottK> Testing done.  Sorry for the noise.
[15:46] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: no commits in upstream svn since 20080816?
[15:47] <JontheEchidna> dunno, but it's been at r145 for forever. If anything there may have been a few translation updates
[15:48]  * JontheEchidna thinks it's better to use svn number in the version string
[15:48] <apachelogger> ok
[15:48] <apachelogger> they both have advantages
[15:48] <apachelogger> using the date you know how hold it is without consulting upstream svn
[15:49] <JontheEchidna> Easier to find the date of the svn number than the svn number that corresponds to that date, imo
[15:49] <JontheEchidna> as long as there's a web-browsable svn repo :P
[15:52] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: usually svn number wouldn't matter
[15:52] <apachelogger> usually project have at least one commit in 6 months ;-)
[15:53] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[15:57] <vorian> I noticed we have no sessions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep :o
[15:57] <ScottK> Anyone volunteer to do one?
[15:58] <apachelogger> hm
[15:58] <apachelogger> I did want to talk about something
[15:58] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: what was it?
[15:58] <JontheEchidna> ?
[15:58] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: devweek
[15:58] <apachelogger> rapid package deployment using ruby?
[15:58] <apachelogger> I think there was something else as well
[15:59] <apachelogger> pbuild hookers?
[15:59] <ScottK> "Never have to relibtoolize again by using Cmake"?
[15:59] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: something like that
[15:59]  * ScottK recalls jpds is a big fan of relibtoolize.
[16:00] <vorian> na
[16:00] <apachelogger> "CMake - What else?"
[16:01] <apachelogger> "How to fix half your translations 5 days before release"
[16:01] <JontheEchidna> ha
[16:01] <ScottK> "KDE4 - It's not your Grandma's DE any more"
[16:01] <ScottK> apachelogger: If only they'd done that.
[16:01] <apachelogger> ^_^
[16:01] <apachelogger> add a not to the topic title then
[16:01] <vorian> KDE4 packaging would be a good one
[16:02] <ScottK> The translations we had at release were still worse than upstream's.
[16:02] <apachelogger> vorian: what to talk about?
[16:02] <apachelogger> add that cdbs include
[16:02] <apachelogger> upload to review
[16:02] <vorian> good point
[16:02] <apachelogger> hand apachelogger a cookie
[16:02] <JontheEchidna> lol
[16:02]  * vorian hands apachelogger a cookie
[16:02] <apachelogger> watch him reject the package because it is too high quality
[16:02] <apachelogger> ScottK: but better than they were a week before release
[16:03] <ScottK> apachelogger: True.  But anything that makes stuff worse is broken beyond belief.
[16:03] <apachelogger> *nod*
[16:04] <vorian> Pushing out KDE to Tens of users
[16:04] <apachelogger> lol
[16:04] <ScottK> apachelogger: I did you see I added Jaunty to the Debian experimental kde.mk so we should be able to sync future KDE4 uploads from Experimental.
[16:04] <vorian> :)
[16:04] <apachelogger> that said ... kdt will get QA beyond belief soon
[16:05] <ScottK> No need to set THIS_SHOULD_GO_IN_UNSTABLE anymore.
[16:05] <apachelogger> ScottK: kde4.mk is different
[16:05] <apachelogger> translation stuff
[16:06] <ScottK> Whichever one it is that has that.
[16:06] <apachelogger> ScottK: kde.mk in debian is still imported to debian/cdbs?
[16:06] <ScottK> Yes.
[16:07] <apachelogger> well, can't sync then
[16:07] <apachelogger> /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/kde4.mk
[16:07] <ScottK> Why not?  There's no harm in using that one.
[16:07] <apachelogger> #Kubuntu specific, Launchpad translations support, create .pot translation templates
[16:07] <apachelogger> common-install-prehook-impl::
[16:07] <apachelogger> ScottK: we wouldn't get the pots
[16:07] <ScottK> Ugh.
[16:08] <apachelogger> if debian had the .mk in cdbs or pkg-kde-tools we could sync
[16:08] <ScottK> I think pkg-kde-tools is their plan.
[16:20] <apachelogger> so, what do we talk about @devweek?
[16:21] <vorian> hmmm
[16:22] <vorian> getting involved with kubuntu-devel (ninja's/bugs/testing)?
[16:23] <apachelogger> vorian: are you going to do that?
[16:24] <vorian> I like a team approach :)
[16:24]  * apachelogger thinks all those topics can be indvidual slots ;-)
[16:24] <vorian> ohboy
[16:25] <apachelogger> "Holding back KDE releases from millions of users" :D
[16:26] <apachelogger> ...Kubuntu Ninja secrets
[16:28] <vorian> ok
[16:28] <apachelogger> vorian: how about we do a talk about ninja work together?
[16:29] <vorian> hmm
[16:29] <vorian> it seems they would like some hand's on stuff
[16:29] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna could talk about how I close bugs by fixing them and he does by marking them invalid :P
[16:29] <vorian> anything that can be learned instantly
[16:29] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: but who has the higer karma? :D
[16:30] <apachelogger> vorian: Pushing out GNOME releases to millions of users -- is not exactly something that can be any more learned instantly
[16:30] <JontheEchidna> (just kidding)
[16:30] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I must have higher karma because I am a bzr user :P
[16:30] <apachelogger> bzr users get load of karma for doing nothing
[16:30] <vorian> dholbach said we could have two slots
[16:30] <apachelogger> I want 3
[16:30] <vorian> you talk to him then
[16:31] <vorian> :P
[16:31] <apachelogger> since we are talking about bazaar :P
[16:31] <vorian> that's not kubuntu specific, so i'm sure _you_ could do it :)
[16:31] <JontheEchidna> LP karma system is out of control
[16:32] <apachelogger> "How to cheat your way all to the top of LP karama"
[16:32] <JontheEchidna> yus :D
[16:32] <JontheEchidna> my favorite search: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.searchtext=kde&orderby=date_last_updated&search=Search&field.status:list=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status:list=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package=&start=0
[16:33] <apachelogger> "How to make LP servers go down by accessing the Ubuntu bug page"
[16:33] <apachelogger> just imagine all those tags and millions of users accessing it at the same time because a new gnome release was pushed :P
[16:34] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: there are false incompletes
[16:36]  * apachelogger is loosing focus again
[16:36] <vorian> hmm
[16:36] <vorian> ok
[16:36] <vorian> so
[16:36] <vorian> 1) ninja
[16:36] <vorian> 2) bugs
[16:36] <apachelogger> vorian and moi talk about the ninja and JontheEchidna about cheating
[16:36] <vorian> alrighty, i'll add it to the schedule
[16:36] <JontheEchidna> when is devweek?
[16:37] <vorian> let's make a big deal of it too
[16:37] <apachelogger> loads of promotion
[16:37] <apachelogger> ...a whole marketing campaign
[16:37] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: 19-23
[16:37] <apachelogger> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep
[16:37] <JontheEchidna> ah, I should be able to make it then
[16:38] <JontheEchidna> so should I do a repeat of my openweek talk? :D
[16:38] <apachelogger> with more emotion, more cheating, more cookies
[16:38] <vorian> what time slot do you want apachelogger?
[16:39] <vorian> It will need to be thursday for me
[16:39] <vorian> so, 1900 or 2000?
[16:40] <apachelogger> doesn't matter
[16:40] <vorian> ok, 1900 it is! \o/
[16:40] <Riddell> afternoon
[16:40] <vorian> JontheEchidna: any time work for you?
[16:40] <vorian> do you want to do the 2000?
[16:40] <apachelogger> 19 = 20 CET = perfect market penetration in germany :P
[16:40] <JontheEchidna> vorian: 1900 would be better I think
[16:40] <apachelogger> aloha Riddell
[16:40] <JontheEchidna> but 2000 would work too
[16:41] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I suppose you did runtime QA on your gtk changes?
[16:41] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: yus
[16:41] <apachelogger> okies
[16:41] <apachelogger> up we go
[16:41] <JontheEchidna> now gtk-qt-engine sucks less! :P
[16:42] <vorian> JontheEchidna: i'll switch them around then
[16:42] <vorian> 1900 for JontheEchidna
[16:42] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: by 0.01%
[16:42] <JontheEchidna> haha, yeah...
[16:42] <apachelogger> vorian: why not do it on 2 days?
[16:43] <apachelogger> vorian: we'd be reaching more people I guess
[16:43] <vorian> ok
[16:43] <vorian> JontheEchidna: any day work for you looks like wednesday is open at 1900
[16:45] <JontheEchidna> cool
[16:46] <apachelogger> bug 311415
[16:47] <vorian> ok apachelogger JontheEchidna, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep
[16:47] <apachelogger> oh dear
[16:47] <apachelogger> ark can't copy to fonts:/ -.-
[16:47] <JontheEchidna> I hate default fonts bus
[16:48] <apachelogger> vorian: our name sux
[16:48] <apachelogger> we need something magic
[16:48] <vorian> Creating Kubuntu Magic
[16:48] <vorian> Magic Kubuntu Spells
[16:49] <vorian> Kubuntu Magic: Revealed
[16:49] <vorian> Free iPods
[16:49] <apachelogger> that!
[16:49] <vorian> haha
[16:49] <apachelogger> Kubuntu Ninja's - The Kubuntu SWAT unit
[16:50] <vorian> there is a ubuntu SWAT team though
[16:50] <apachelogger> Kubuntu Ninja's - The Kubuntu SWAT unit with cool name
[16:50] <vorian> hmm
[16:50] <apachelogger> Kubuntu Ninja's - The art of magic
[16:50] <vorian> I like it!
[16:50]  * vorian changes
[16:50] <apachelogger> Kubuntu Ninja's - free ponies
[16:51] <vorian> hmm
[16:51] <vorian> not so much
[16:51] <JontheEchidna> lol
[16:51] <apachelogger> Oo
[16:51] <apachelogger> oh my pony!
[16:51] <JontheEchidna> I think it's hilarious
[16:51] <apachelogger> vorian: either we are serious and use the art of magic or we ar hilarious and use free ponies
[16:52] <apachelogger> or - Blue ponies
[16:52] <vorian> ok
[16:52] <apachelogger> up to you
[16:52] <vorian> blue ponies
[16:52] <vorian> I can live with that
[16:52] <vorian> :P
[16:52] <apachelogger> or unicorn
[16:52] <apachelogger> muhahaha
[16:52] <vorian> ah, that's a magical pony
[16:52] <apachelogger> righto
[16:52] <vorian> Kubuntu Ninja's - Free Unicorns
[16:52] <vorian> :/
[16:53] <vorian> Kubuntu Ninja's - free ponies
[16:53] <apachelogger> Kubuntu Ninja's - Packagers in Unicorn mode
[16:53] <vorian> haha
[16:53] <apachelogger> that makes us magic packagers
[16:54] <vorian> ok, Packagers in Unicorn mode it is
[16:56] <apachelogger> neato
[16:59] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot002.png
[16:59] <apachelogger> does someone see a graphical advantage over dejavu?
[17:00] <apachelogger> Riddell: are you still around?
[17:02] <smarter> apachelogger: I don't like the rendering at 8
[17:02] <Riddell> hi apachelogger
[17:02] <smarter> is the aliasing disabled for <= 8 or something?
[17:02] <smarter> hey Riddell
[17:02] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[17:02] <apachelogger> Riddell: what do you think?
[17:02] <apachelogger> bug 311415
[17:03]  * apachelogger is pretty sure droid doesn't support as many languages as dejavu does
[17:03] <smarter> the bold font looks a bit blurry
[17:03] <smarter> but I really like déjà vu, so I'm a bit partial :p
[17:04] <apachelogger> :P
[17:04] <apachelogger> droid uses less space
[17:04] <apachelogger> which might in return make it less readable for people with visual impairment
[17:05] <Riddell> apachelogger: extra things on the CD aren't really an option currently
[17:05] <apachelogger> Riddell: it is meant to be default font
[17:06] <seele> it looks a bit narrower than nimbus
[17:06] <seele> and dejavu
[17:06] <apachelogger> sec
[17:06] <seele> reminds me of tahoma
[17:07] <torkiano> hello all, I update this spec: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-voip-solution what do you think about?
[17:08] <apachelogger> seele: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot003.png http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot004.png
[17:09] <seele> yeah, i dunno.  is there a benefit besides that it looks different?
[17:09] <Riddell> torkiano: so wait until kopete supports it via telepathy?
[17:09] <seele> it looks like droid has some serifs even though it is a sans serif font, heh
[17:11] <torkiano> rideUbuntu/Gnome has a very good VoIP support now... (ekiga & empathy) and for jaunty was good to be a solution for kubuntu
[17:12] <apachelogger> seele: I'll wontfix the bug
[17:12] <torkiano> Riddell: that works until kopete developerd finish the port
[17:13] <torkiano> only a suggestion ;-)
[17:13] <seele> apachelogger: why is there a bug? or are wishes bugs in launchpad?
[17:13] <apachelogger> seele: wishes are in launchpad
[17:14] <seele> huh. you could ask nuno if he likes the font
[17:14] <seele> i just dont see the benefit os switching to it.
[17:15] <apachelogger> well, I am quite worrid about how readable it is and how complete
[17:16] <vorian> there is a fella in -motu trying to package droid
[17:17] <torkiano> Riddell: currently there is 2 solutions that may work (I think): Kcall and qutecom
[17:17] <apachelogger> kcall needs too much configuration IIRC
[17:18] <Riddell> torkiano: kcall at least has been around for a long time, I wonder why it hasn't been packaged
[17:18] <torkiano> i requested it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/252913
[17:20] <torkiano> and there is a ppa for qutecom: https://edge.launchpad.net/~cavedon/+archive
[17:21] <apachelogger> hm
[17:21] <apachelogger> torkiano: is kcall ported to KDE 4?
[17:22] <torkiano> from webpage :KCall was successfully ported to the KDE4 environment, incl. Decibel.
[17:22] <torkiano> http://www.basyskom.de/index.pl/kcall
[17:23] <apachelogger> well, KDE decided against adding decibel to KDE 4.2
[17:25] <torkiano> I think it would be interesting to package KCall or make avaliable in a PPA at least for testing
[17:25] <Riddell> we still have decibel packaged
[17:28] <torkiano> and kcall is in KDE repository: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/pim/kcall/
[17:31] <Riddell> torkiano: have you tried either to see if they work?
[17:35] <torkiano> Riddell:  sorry, I'm a begginer, (I'm still trying to install an environment for KDE4 development)
[17:47] <Riddell> torkiano: something we should look into then.  hunger would be a good person to ask for advice too since he's into decibel et al but doesn't seem to be around today
[17:49] <torkiano> Riddell: yes, the coders of Kcall and decibel are the same
[17:50] <torkiano> in https://www.ohloh.net/p/kcall you can see all te contributors
[17:52] <torkiano> and for https://www.ohloh.net/p/kcall/analyses/latest the development seems stopped
[17:54] <torkiano> but I think the major issue with VoIP are the protocols, and that is decibel/telepathy
[18:05] <apachelogger> Riddell: do you think bug 285831 qualify for SRU?
[18:05] <apachelogger> dfaure removed the magic portion from the msi mimetype
[18:08] <ScottK> apachelogger: It's a regression, right?
[18:09] <apachelogger> yes
[18:10] <apachelogger> 0.51 introduced that new mimetype with a too generic magic
[18:11] <ScottK> apachelogger: Regression is one of the criteria, so if it's a small, low risk patch, I think it'd sell.
[18:11] <Riddell> apachelogger: I wouldn't thin6k 0~it 0~worth the hassle
[18:11] <Riddell> hmm, 0~I 0~thin6k the cat peein6g on6 this keyb5oard might have don6e somethin6g b5ad
[18:12] <apachelogger> lol
[18:13] <apachelogger> ScottK, Riddell: not only the icon is wrong but .doc/.dot/whateverelsemightbeaffected will not be associated with the correct application
[18:13] <torkiano> Riddell: This may be important to include webkit in Kubuntu: flash support for webkitkde: http://cia.vc/stats/project/kde/webkitkde/.message/27670
[18:16] <apachelogger> this will not work without Qt 4.5 I guess
[18:16] <apachelogger> yeah, qwebkit only supports this in 4.5
[18:19] <torkiano> ups, ok apachelogger
[18:20] <Riddell> apachelogger: hmm, that seems more importan6t
[18:20] <Riddell> torkiano: I saw that, sounds quite promising
[18:41] <nixternal> anyone going to SCALE next month?
[18:42]  * apachelogger has a new workout plan, so he should scale down :P
[18:46] <Nightrose> apachelogger: current status of the release script?
[18:59]  * Riddell hugs apachelogger for updating the akonadi package
[19:07] <Riddell> has anyone been packaging the new digikam betas?
[19:21] <LaserJock> is there a knetworkmanager guru about?
[19:21] <ScottK> seele: CALug (Columbia, MD Area Linux User's Group) is looking for a presentation topic for January 14.  Maybe you could do a Kubuntu is wonderful, come join us bit ....
[19:26] <Riddell> LaserJock: you are making an assumption that such a thing exists :)
[19:27] <LaserJock> Riddell: well, I did say "is there a" not "is the"
[19:27] <LaserJock> ;-)
[19:29] <LaserJock> I just installed Kubuntu Jaunty and I can't for the life of me get Knetworkmanager to work
[19:29] <Riddell> LaserJock: works for me, just upgraded from intrepid.  it won't work if you have anything fancy like pptp
[19:30] <LaserJock> well, I just have 2 connections. One is a static IP eth0 and the other is a WPA wifi
[19:30] <LaserJock> but neither seem to be able to connect
[19:30] <Riddell> that should work
[19:30] <LaserJock> hmm, wonder what I did wrong
[19:33] <LaserJock> \o/, got the wifi working
[19:33] <LaserJock> ok, so now what'd I do with eth0
[19:43] <LaserJock> Riddell: have you tried a static IP with knetworkmanager? there seems to be quite a few open bugs about it not working
[19:46]  * ScottK-laptop tries kvirc now.
[19:49] <LaserJock> Riddell: found my problem, bug #279409 , I had to use 24.0.0.0 instead of 255.255.255.0 as my netmask
[19:49] <LaserJock> Riddell: the bug report has a fix in it
[19:49]  * ScottK looks around for a core-dev to upload the fix....
[19:49]  * ScottK spies LaserJock....
[19:49] <ScottK> ;-)
[19:52] <ScottK-laptop> seele: I've got a working kvirc for kde4 package in my PPA if you have time to look at it too (It's the only alternative to quassel I know of for KDE4) - https://launchpad.net/~kitterman/+archive
[19:55] <LaserJock> ScottK: is there any decent knetworkmanager upstream?
[19:56] <jtechidna> there is work on a plasma frontend for networkmanager
[19:56] <jtechidna> but the kde3 version is pretty much teh sux
[19:56] <jtechidna> in fact fedora uses the gnome nm applet
[19:59] <LaserJock> I can work up an upload based on this bug report, not sure I should just upload it though ;-)
[20:05] <ScottK-laptop> LaserJock: I haven't done any work with upstream on knetworkmanager.  Riddell is generally the one, IIRC.
[20:24]  * jtechidna is listening to Smells Like Teen Spirit by Nirvana on Best of [Amarok2]
[20:27] <jjesse-dell9> question:  if i delete something in dolphin shouldnt i be able to restore it through the trash plasmoid?
[20:28] <jjesse-dell9> cause i could only find the files in .local/share/Trash
[20:28] <JontheEchidna> jjesse-dell9: if you moved it to the trash rather than using the "delete" command, then yes
[20:28] <jjesse-dell9> if i used the delete button on my keyboar?
[20:28] <JontheEchidna> that'll send it to the trash
[20:29] <jjesse-dell9> the files werent in the trash
[20:29] <JontheEchidna> hmm....
[20:29] <jjesse-dell9> found them in ~/.local/share/Trash
[20:29] <JontheEchidna> that's where kde's trash should point o
[20:29] <JontheEchidna> *to
[20:29] <jjesse-dell9> there were some folders like 00 01 02 03 etc
[20:29] <JontheEchidna> weird
[20:29] <jjesse-dell9> should i file a bug?
[20:30] <jjesse-dell9> and if so where should i go to?
[20:30] <JontheEchidna> dunno, sounds to me like it could be one of those obscure-type config related issues that end up rotting up in the bt untouched for a few years :P
[20:31] <JontheEchidna> inside the /share/Trash folder there should be 2 subdirs
[20:31] <JontheEchidna> files and info
[20:31] <JontheEchidna> ~/.local/share/Trash, rather
[20:32] <jjesse-dell9> correct the files were in the files folder
[20:32] <JontheEchidna> but they're not showing up in dolphin?
[20:32] <jjesse-dell9> correct
[20:32] <jjesse-dell9> in dolphin i saw some folders named 00, 01, 02, 03, 04, 05, 06
[20:32] <jjesse-dell9> but they were in empty
[20:33] <JontheEchidna> weird, I guess the files never made it to the trash then?
[20:33] <jjesse-dell9> i could open up ~/.local/share/Trash/files in dolphin and see them but couldnt access them from trash
[20:33] <jjesse-dell9> will have to test on non critical files
[20:47] <Riddell> apachelogger: http://techbase.kde.org/Getting_Started/Using_Project_Neon_to_contribute_to_KDE just got posted to kde-devel
[20:55] <Riddell> LaserJock: that fix for knm looks like something we want to investigate
[20:56] <LaserJock> Riddell: I've created a .patch for it
[21:00] <Riddell> oooh
[21:31] <Riddell> having no up key is very annoying, I guess keyboard don't survive being washed very well
[21:44] <LaserJock> what's the current situation with Amarok in Jaunty? kubuntu-desktop has no dep on it, is it waiting for Amarok 2?
[21:46] <JontheEchidna> yeah, and amarok2 is waiting on mysql 5.1
[21:48] <LaserJock> JontheEchidna: oh right, the mysql 5.0 vs 5.1 stuff, etc.
[21:57] <seele> ScottK-laptop: a Kubuntu is wonderful talk huh?  You don't want to give that? :)
[21:58] <seele> ScottK-laptop: is it worth me looking at kvirc? quassel seems pretty dedicated
[22:22] <ScottK-laptop> seele: I think we don't know if quassel is going to make it or not.  I think kvirc is worth at least a quick look.
[22:23] <ScottK-laptop> seele: I could give the talk, but unfortunately I'm not available that day.
[22:25] <seele> what day was it again?
[22:25] <seele> oh.. jan 14th
[22:25] <seele> yeah, i'll have to pass.  i have a redeye from SFO that morning.  i'll be dead tired
[22:26] <Riddell> what's happening in SFO?
[22:27] <seele> business trip
[22:27] <seele> flying all the way out there for a two day conference for a client
[22:28] <seele> although that's not as bad as the day trip to LA i did last year.  THAT was rediculous.  morning flight west, red eye that same day back east
[22:31] <seele> Riddell: how was jury duty?
[22:31] <seele> i hope you sat in on something interesting instead of sitting in the waiting room all day
[22:32] <ScottK> seele: That is ridiculous.  I once had to go to Hawaii for a two hour meeting.
[22:32] <ScottK> I stayed a 2nd day anyway.
[22:32] <seele> ScottK: THAT is rediculous.  you should have stayed longer than the 2nd day :)
[22:33] <ScottK-laptop> Well I was a single parent at the time and didn't want to be away from home longer than needed.
[22:33] <seele> ah true.  and three kids are a bit many to take to hawaii with you :)
[22:35] <ScottK-laptop> Well it was one at the time, but yes.
[22:35] <Riddell> seele: a bit scary.  the guy pled guilty after some hours of discussions so we heard his crimes and that was it
[22:36] <seele> Riddell: yikes.. was there show and tell?
[22:38] <Riddell> just the procurator fiscal reading out in technical details his sexual misdemeanors
[22:38] <seele> how does it work in your courts?  innocent before proven guilty?  or convince the state otherwise?
[22:39] <Riddell> innocent until proven of course, we're not yet a police state!
[22:39] <seele> not -- yet?
[22:40] <seele> hey.. we're not a police state!
[22:40] <seele> the state has the burden, not the defendant
[22:40] <LaserJock> anybody have a recommendation for/against installing koffice 2.0?
[22:41] <seele> LaserJock: depends.. does your life depend on delivered documents?
[22:42] <LaserJock> seele: not strictly, but it'd be nice to have something that generally works
[22:42] <seele> well if your life doesnt depend on it, i'm sure they would appreciate the testing and bug reports
[22:45] <seele> has anyone installed the kpackagekit packages from Tonio's ppa?  it installs but it doesnt interface with apt which makes it pretty useless
[22:45] <LaserJock> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/koffice-data-kde4_1%3a1.9.98.4-0ubuntu1_all.deb (--unpack):
[22:45] <LaserJock>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/icons/oxygen/16x16/actions/object-order-back.png', which is also in package kde-icons-oxygen
[22:51] <nhandler> NCommander: ping
[22:51] <seele> ScottK-laptop: crimsun: interested in a KDE4 party later this month?
[22:51] <NCommander> nhandler, pong
[22:51] <ScottK> Possible.
[22:52] <crimsun> seele: surely
[22:52] <ScottK> Although both kids I brought to the Intrepid release party were not entirely thrilled.
[22:52] <nhandler> NCommander: Is a full GPL License header required for the package to get uploaded to Debian? Or is a line saying "This program is released under the GPL (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html)" fine?
[22:52] <nhandler> ScottK: I wish my parents were like you
[22:52] <seele> ScottK: kde people are way cooler than those ubunteros
[22:52] <ScottK> nhandler: You need a full copy of the license in the tarball.
[22:52] <ScottK> seele: ;-)
[22:53] <nhandler> ScottK: It has one
[22:53] <NCommander> ScottK, there is one, the files themselves have no license and the copyright was wrong.
[22:53] <nhandler> ScottK: I'm talking about the individual scripts in the source
[22:53] <nhandler> NCommander: So would that line suffice? Or should I get a full header?
[22:53] <seele> ScottK: i'm thinking a pirate restaurant bar.  would they be interested in that?  it is family friendly
[22:53] <ScottK> I don't think that's essential.  Pretty much as in Ubuntu, although it depends on who reviews it.
[22:53] <seele> ScottK: http://piratztavern.com/ (warning.. lots of flash)
[22:53] <seele> crimsun: ^^
[22:54] <nhandler> ScottK: Ok, I thought Debian was more strict about the licensing things
[22:54] <ScottK> seele: Well my 5 year old was trying to talk like a pirate on the way home today without prompting.
[22:54] <NCommander> ScottK, I'd disagree, I'm suprised this package flew through NEW (although old versions are GPL vs. LGPL)
[22:54] <Riddell> nhandler: stuff like that mostly depends on that attitude of the archive admin on dity
[22:54] <Riddell> duty
[22:55] <Riddell> nhandler: if the tar contains a full copy of the licence that should be fine
[22:55] <ScottK> seele: The Flash even works on my Konqueror ....
[22:56] <nhandler> Ok, so I'll modify debian/copyright NCommander, and then you can hopefully sponsor it ;)
[22:56] <ScottK> That should be fine.
[22:56] <seele> ScottK: it must be old flash then, hehe
[22:56] <NCommander> Riddell, generally, I would REJECT on that
[22:56] <NCommander> Riddell, if it were up to me
[22:56] <seele> ScottK: it's pretty fun.  the wait staff dress up and talk funny
[22:56] <Riddell> NCommander: on what?
[22:56] <NCommander> Riddell, not having headers in files.
[22:56] <NCommander> Riddell, its was a requirement when I was a FSF Savannah Admin
[22:56] <ScottK> NCommander: A LOT of stuff that's not rejected would get rejected on that basis.
[22:57]  * seele starts on dinner
[22:57] <nhandler> NCommander: All of the scriptsmention the license, it is just not a formal copyright header
[22:57] <NCommander> ScottK, sorry, the FSF skrewed my ability to parse licenses
[22:57] <ScottK> seele: Please pick a day that's not a Thursday.
[22:58] <Riddell> NCommander: as an upstream FSF should have a clear policy but as downstreams we need to look at what we get and judge if it's clear what it means, putting in a full copy of the licence in the tar seems like pretty clear intent that everything in that tar can be copied with that licence
[23:04] <nhandler> Since the files don't have the normal copyright header, in debian/copyright, should I just list it as gplv2 like the COPYING file says, or should I do gplv2 (or at your option) any later version?
[23:05] <seele> ScottK: that's fine with me.  is Friday night (~7) OK or would you rather do Saturday afternoon?
[23:05] <seele> crimsun: ^^
[23:06] <ScottK> seele: Either should be fine.  The youngest can pass out in the car on the way home if it's in the evening.
[23:07] <Riddell> nhandler: put whatever is in the file headers
[23:08] <nhandler> Riddell: The file headers just say "This program is released under the GPL (http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html)" (and they aren't really headers, they are 60 down the script)
[23:09] <nhandler> s/60/60 lines/
[23:10] <crimsun> seele: Friday night is probably better; i'll ping maco
[23:10] <Riddell> nhandler: copy the relevant parts out of the COPYING file then
[23:10] <seele> ScottK: crimsun: awesome.. i'll send a notice out to the different lugs etc.
[23:11] <maco> hi, what about meeting at piratz?
[23:11] <crimsun> maco: we already decided without you. you're too late!
[23:11] <maco> well *which* friday at 7 or is it saturday?
[23:12] <seele> maco: Jan 30 is KDE release party
[23:12] <seele> maco: sunday Jan 18 is linux chix
[23:13] <maco> so i'll see you twice in two weeks when i havent seen you twice in the last year? :P
[23:13] <maco> i think thats my fault for missing so many linuxchix meetings though
[23:14] <maco> alright, well ill put those on the calendar
[23:15] <maco> and then there's the global bug jam in feb
[23:15] <maco> i still need to figure out why kubuntu doesn't work with my user's home directory :(
[23:15] <maco> seele: you interested in bug jam?
[23:16]  * ScottK prefers strawberry.
[23:17] <maco> ScottK: are you in the DC area too?
[23:17] <seele> maco: doesn't that require coding of some sort?
[23:17] <maco> seele: no, just triaging
[23:18] <ScottK> maco: More west of Baltimore, but yes.
[23:18] <maco> seele: you can set the importance of usability bugs
[23:18] <seele> maco: i think i'll pass.  i spend enough of my non-working waking hours on oss as it is
[23:18] <maco> or confirm or ask questions or whatever
[23:18] <maco> heh ok
[23:18] <ScottK> seele, crimsun, and maco: BACON-PIG is on the 19th.
[23:18] <maco> bacon? ew
[23:19] <maco> i mean um....yummy! meat! er...everybody loves bacon! er...i give up
[23:19] <ScottK> That's Baltimore, Annapolis, Columbia, and Other Northern suburbs - Python Interest Group.
[23:19] <ScottK> Meets at Goddard Space Flight Centet in Greenbelt.
[23:20] <ScottK> Centet/Center.
[23:20] <maco> ah ok see explanations help
[23:20] <seele> ScottK: is Goddard where they have the Yuri space party every year?
[23:20] <maco> eh, i usually avoid python so i dont think ill be going
[23:20] <seele> hrm.. dinner is done.  now where is my other half
[23:20] <ScottK> Barry Warsaw (LP developer in real life) is doing a session on porting to Python 3.
[23:20] <ScottK> seele: Dunno.
[23:21] <maco> oh so you're saying this is a chance to meet up and talk about bass IRL :P
[23:21] <maco> (i'm talking to him about playing bass right now)
[23:21] <ScottK> That's between you and him.
[23:21]  * ScottK prefers to eat the fish and not play with them himself.
[23:21] <ScottK> ;-)
[23:21]  * seele blinks
[23:22] <maco> hahha
[23:32]  * maco wonders if seele figured it out
[23:52] <nhandler> NCommander: I just uploaded a new version with an updated debian/copyright file
[23:53] <NCommander> I'll take a look at it later