=== TheMuso_ is now known as TheMuso
Hobbseeis it intentional that all jaunty upgrades pull lilo in by default, due to the kernel?08:48
apwHobbsee, i am not aware of our dependancies changing specifically on lilo10:19
apwyep, our specified dependancies have not changed from Intrepid to Jaunty10:21
apwdebian/control.stub:Recommends: lilo (>= 19.1) | grub10:21
apwwould we expect that form to force lilo on?  that sounds bad to me10:21
apw(and wrong)10:22
Hobbseeapw: well, I suspect it's a bug in intrepid upgrades too then10:30
Hobbseei'm not sure if it actually turns lilo on or not, but installing two boot loaders by a normal dist-upgrade seems...strange?10:31
apwfrankly i would expect them to conflict: with each other10:34
Hobbseethey don't seem to (as that's what I'd expect too). how strange.10:35
apwHobbsee, as the kernel only recommends them surly that wouldn't ever install them?  do we not rely on the d-i at first install to have picked one, and normal upgrades to keep that one up to datge10:35
Hobbseeapw: a dist-upgrade installs recommends for new packages by default, i think.  and the new kernel qualifies as a new (binary) package.10:36
Hobbsee(it keeps the metapackages right, but the bit that recommends grub itself is actually the kernel image binary, which keeps changing)10:37
apwHobbsee, hmmm well that might allow it to install one or the other, but i would hope that it would only install recommends with 'or' in them if one was not already installed10:37
apwi wonder if apt has changed behaviour somewhere10:38
Hobbseeapw: indeed.  it would be odd that apt doesn't say "the second is installed, don't install hte first"10:39
* apw wonders if there is any magic in update-manager to solve this10:39
apwthat makes it feel like a bug, but a bug in the update10:39
Hobbseecould be.  I didn't use update-manager10:40
* apw gets the source10:40
apwHobbsee, is your dual installed machine 32 or 64 bit?10:51
Hobbseeapw: 3210:51
* apw notes his 32 bit Intrepid install has both installed10:51
apwbut his 64 does not10:51
Hobbseei clean installed intrepid today, then dist-upgraded it10:51
Hobbseegot jaunty, and lilo installed10:51
Hobbseehaven't rebooted it yet.10:51
apwwell i have a laptop here (32 bit) which was installed from the Intrepid final CD and only has official updates on it10:52
apwand that also has both loaders installed10:52
apwmy other laptop installed from the amd64 CD image only has grub10:52
* apw is suspicious of the 32 bit installer now10:53
Hobbseedid you dist-upgrade it?10:53
Hobbseeoh, wait, i misread you sorry10:54
apwnope this was a virgin install from a CD, and the most it has is -proposed enabled10:54
apwalways updated using update-manager10:54
Hobbseevery strange.10:54
apwproper user stylee, and it seems to be infected with both10:54
apwyes it does have proposed enabled too10:55
apwaccording to the logs in /var/log/apt, it was installed in the initial install burst10:58
dholbachhello my Kernel friends!11:28
dholbachwho of you would like to give a session at the next Ubuntu Developer Week? something about module packaging with DKMS maybe?11:28
dholbachis the preliminary schedule11:29
KeybukThought of the day:11:56
Keybukwhat happens if init calls clone() with CLONE_PARENT? :p11:56
dholbachhey Keybuk11:58
mjg59Keybuk: Looks like failure11:58
dholbachKeybuk: you could give a session about upstart at Ubuntu Developer Week - what do you think?11:58
Keybukmjg59: the clone() doesn't look like it'll fail?11:59
Keybukbut it looks like if that process exited, lots of things assume that real_parent is not 0?11:59
mjg59Keybuk: Right11:59
mjg59Hence, failure :)12:00
Keybukin fact, it looks like there's lots of -> after that ;)12:00
Keybukdefinitely a "don't do that, then"12:00
mjg59I think it's assumed that anyone writing init can already DoS the system whenever they want to12:00
apwKeybuk, i concur with your analysis, bad karma will result from that12:23
apwi suspect a very simple fix is possible, and probabally desirable12:23
Keybuk*shrug* I tend to agree with mjg59 here ;)12:24
Keybukvery few people write init daemons, and those who do already need to know about various special behaviours12:24
apwi tend to be suspicious of anything which allows user space to blow the kernel up12:26
apwyeah you are already winning if you can run init, but hey12:26
KeybukI can blow the kernel up from init easily ;)12:28
Keybukjust one function call ... exit()12:29
apwyeah i know, but that is 'deliberate' it is designed.  this is a blammo, they are unsatisfactory at best12:31
apwi am sure linus would agree with you12:32
dholbachBenC: would you like to give a session at the next Ubuntu Developer Week? something about module packaging with DKMS maybe? :)14:27
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep is the preliminary schedule14:27
dholbachit'd be nice to have something like a "hands on" session where people could get involved in the kernel team somehow14:27
BenCdholbach: I did dkms last time :) you want a new topic?14:27
dholbachBenC: I could imagine that it's still interesting - if you have something better ... sure :)14:28
dholbachpgraner: you could give a session about "mass-testing kernel fixes" :)14:29
BenCdholbach: ok, If I don't come up with something better, I'll do dkms14:29
dholbachBenC: will you just grab a slot on there?14:30
BenCdholbach: ok14:31
* dholbach hugs BenC14:32
dholbachyou ROCK :)14:32
BenCdholbach: no YOU rock!14:33
* dholbach looks forward to seeing everybody in Berlin soon14:34
Nafalloyou both rock... now, where's the fire? ;-)14:34
dholbachNafallo: eh? :)14:34
Nafallotwo rocks (stones) should lead to fire ;-)14:34
* dholbach is too slow today :)14:35
dholbachBenC: which slot would you like to have? we can always change the session title afterwards15:09
BenCdholbach: late on a Friday is good15:10
dholbach20 UTC? 19 UTC?15:10
BenCdholbach: 1915:18
dholbachBenC: alright, I'll add you to it15:18
BenCdholbach: thanks...still catching up on email15:18
dholbachBenC: same here :)15:18
dholbachBenC: added15:22
alex_jonican I use ppa to build custom flavours for a kernel?16:47
_MMA_alex_joni: A custom kernel? Sure. I couldn't tell you how though. :P16:48
aboganiI can confirm it.16:50
alex_joniabogani: can you then build other packages that depend on that kernel (e.g. with installed header files) ?16:52
aboganialex_joni: I have done that job for rt kernel, headers and rt-tests packages without problems.16:55
alex_joniabogani: cool, that's nice to know16:56
alex_jonione day I might bug you about details (if I can't figure it out ;)16:56
aboganialex_joni: I think that you'll do it without problems and without any helps. ;)16:58
=== _Traxer is now known as Traxer
johanbrWould it be possible to go back to building pcspkr as a module? The only 100% reliable way I've found to get rid of the noise is to blacklist the module.20:06
rtgjohanbr: I believe it is being built as a module: CONFIG_INPUT_PCSPKR=m20:15
johanbrreally? hmm... then my blacklisting stopped working for some other reason20:16
johanbrit stopped working when jaunty rebased to 2.6.2820:16
johanbrI assumed it was due to the "stuff more stuff into the kernel" move.20:17
zackrare any of the people maintaining the lpia kernel online?20:24
rtgzackr: that is sconklin20:27
* sconklin ducks20:27
sconklinzackr: the mobile group has a tree for their work, and I'm in the process of bringing it into our main tree. What do you need?20:28
zackrsconklin: ah, great. i have a machine with jaunty here and need to test a driver on 2.6.28, "fakeroot make-kpkg --initrd kernel_image" fails with "debian/ruleset/misc/checks.mk:36: *** Error. I do not know where the kernel image goes" is there any quick way of compiling 2.6.28 lpia package ?20:30
sconklinzackr: oh, that's out of my knowledge base since I don't actually *build* those kernels yet, and everything we have for lpia is based on Hardy. But hold on a sec and let me see if I can find someone who should know.20:32
zackrsconklin: that'd be great, thanks20:32
sconklinzackr: still looking20:38
sconklinzackr: so I understand - you want to cross-compile, this is not a native build, right?20:43
zackrsconklin: no, it's a native build. i just want to have 2.6.28 lpia packages20:44
sconklinok, just making sure20:45
sconklinzackr: You have to build it in a chroot, and here's a procedure for setting up that chroot environment: http://lwn.net/Articles/247003/ - I tried s/gutsy/intrepid/ in those instructions (on an intrepid host). I don't have a jaunty machine at the moment to make sure it also works for jaunty.21:05
zackrsconklin: i'm a little confused. i have a lpia system running ubuntu already, i just wanted to compile new kernel on it. what would chroot give me in this case?21:09
sconklinzackr: Sorry, I left out the important bit.  No one I talked to does native builds, they are all done on other archs as chroot.21:12
sconklinbut it should work21:12
zackrsconklin: could you ask the person who's building the lpia kernels to write up a procedure for building a new kernel? in particular the make-kpkg line21:13
sconklinzackr: the lpia kernels in the chroots are build using "fakeroot debian/rules <target>", so I don't think make-kpkg has been used or tested. Another option that was mentioned is to use a launchpad PPA to build them, but that's not really what you asked for at all.21:20
zackrsconklin: ok, and what <target> are you using on those then? on my lpia machine "fakeroot debian/rules lpia" returns exact the same error as make-kpkg which is "debian/ruleset/misc/checks.mk:36: *** Error. I do not know where the kernel image goes to [kimagedest undefined] ...", so it looks like there's some patch to the debian/ that you guys are applying before building those kernels21:25
sconklinzackr: that's possible. all my time has been spent looking at hardy, and there may have been something missed in Jaunty. Give me a few mins to have a look21:28
zackrsconklin: thanks. btw, i had the same problem on hardy. essentially the question is how to get debian packages for either git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git on hardy or linux-source-2.6.28 if running jaunty21:30
sconklinzackr: you can look at the current (hardy) lpia tree as easily as I can - it's here:  git://kernel.ubuntu.com/mid-team/hardy-netbook.git21:36
sconklinThat's what I'm doing now.21:36
=== pgraner_ is now known as pgraner
=== TheMuso_ is now known as TheMuso

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