nothingmanhi, all01:08
nothingmansomeone have a problem already so I can watch the discussion!01:13
nothingmananyone doing anything new and interesting with Edubuntu?01:14
nothingmanhi, all01:18
=== foka__ is now known as foka
Ahmuckgood morning13:47
sbalneavMorning all14:45
highvoltagemorning sbalneav15:00
RichEdhi guys15:01
=== alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
LaserJockRichEd: hi17:11
nubaegreets LaserJock, RichEd17:12
LaserJocknubae: kpercentage has been removed from KDE Edu, that's why it's not in Jaunty17:12
nubaeOh? I didn't ask about kpercentage though17:12
nubaeI asked about klettres17:12
nubaebut I shall keep that in mind when making the jaunty app list17:13
nubaedid u get my message yesterday?17:13
LaserJockbah, i was thinking you said kpercentage in your email but you said kgeography, my bad17:13
nubaeoh and kgeography too yeah17:14
LaserJocknubae: not sure, what was your message?17:14
nubaeplease can u review: http://www.edubuntu.org/applications17:14
nubaevery short intro, and probably slightly incorrect17:15
nubaebut links to both intrepid and hardy are now there17:15
LaserJockyeah, it's a great start17:16
LaserJockwe can probably tweak some of the wording17:16
nubaeyeah thought so17:16
nubaesomehow we need to make it attractive to app creators and users to get involved17:16
LaserJockI'd like to work a bit on the application list format17:16
LaserJockI'd like to try to shorten things up a bit17:17
LaserJockI'm not sure if/how we can do it17:17
nubaeI sent a couple mails to the list too, concerning other apps and screem replacement, u probably saw17:17
nubaewell, what are your ideas?17:17
LaserJock the descriptions are like double spaced17:17
LaserJockand I think it wouldn't hurt to bring  out "category" "homepage" and "version" more17:18
LaserJocklike maybe bold them or something17:18
nubaeyeah true17:18
LaserJockanother option17:19
nubaemaybe category should be under version17:19
LaserJockwe could group by category17:19
nubaeok, right now its alphabetical17:19
nubaeI dont think there are enough categories to warrant that right now17:20
nubaemany categories have only one app17:20
LaserJockbut perhaps we should group by primary, secondary, etc.17:20
LaserJockas really, the category is somewhat redundant17:20
LaserJockbecause you have the short description and the long description17:20
nubaeyeah or have a recommended age group17:21
LaserJockit should be pretty clear quickly what the app is for, maybe we don't need that "category" thing17:21
LaserJocksince there's only one or a very few in each17:21
nubaehmm, right17:22
LaserJockRichEd: do you have age ranges for pre-school, primary, secondary, tertiary ? we're finding in some places it makes more sense to use age ranges17:22
nubaewe need to try thinking like teachers here17:22
nubaehow would u search for something u need17:22
nubaeage-range is more international for sure17:22
LaserJockwell, I'm not sure I'm wanting to search so much on this page17:22
nubaeok, browse then :-)17:23
LaserJockI'm wanting an overview of what is offered17:23
LaserJockso I guess if I was a primary school teacher i'm wanting to see primary school apps17:23
nubaeor apps for 4-9 years17:23
nubaeok, so we list the apps from lowest age to highest?17:24
LaserJockthat might not be a bad way to go17:24
nubaeand then we can make anchors for primary (age group 4-9), secondary, etc17:25
nubaeon the top of the page17:25
LaserJockthat seems the most logical to me17:27
nubaeI think we should expand the intro page a bit too17:28
nubaewith a better explanation of how/why the apps have been chosen17:28
LaserJockmy general philosophy is to keep pages simple with little prose17:28
LaserJockmostly bullet points and links17:28
nubaeyeah agreed...17:28
nubaethe downloads page needs -serious- simplifying17:29
LaserJockwe can also say how people can recommend apps17:29
nubaewe can do like wine does... people recommend apps, and once a certain number have recommended, they include it17:29
nubaeso it goes by popularity17:30
LaserJockwell ...17:30
nubaethey also get people to donate that way, lol, but guess thats not possible with edubuntu17:30
LaserJockwe can't really go on popularity17:30
LaserJockthough it's a factor17:30
nubaewell, lets say a teacher really wants a particular app in edubuntu, and with that increased support...17:31
LaserJocksome things are very popular but very difficult or sometimes impossible17:31
nubaethey can vote the app in, making a donation?17:31
nubaeI can see that being unpopular I guess17:31
LaserJockwell, we're not really set up for donations17:32
nubaeright, but thats not hard to do, the political part might be though17:32
nubaedonations can be setup via a paypal account quite easily17:32
LaserJockwell, but I mean I don't know where the donations would go, etc.17:33
nubaeto the people maintaining/supporting/coding the app in question17:33
LaserJockwell, that's a tricky thing :-)17:34
nubaeits to push the inclusion of it in main17:34
nubaeor in a general edubuntu pot17:34
nubaethat then gets socially distributed?17:34
LaserJockI don't know17:35
LaserJockin general Ubuntu has really stayed away from involving money17:35
nubaeI know... but edubuntu has no paid canonical employees anymore17:35
nubaethey get support from their support contracts17:35
nubaeso they do involve money indirectly17:36
nubaewell, I dont care so much, its just an idea, and it might get more people involved17:36
LaserJockI know MOTU have struggled a bit with this17:36
LaserJockit's hard when we're such a loose organization17:36
nubaeyeah, edubuntu would be easier I suppose though17:37
nubaemaybe we should bring it up at the meeting tomorrow?17:37
LaserJockperhaps, though it would be unclear to me still who the money would go to17:37
LaserJockyou can certainly add it to the agenda if you like17:38
nubaeme too, but it can certainly go towards something17:38
nubaewe dont need to decide right away17:38
LaserJockit would be nice if the Ubuntu Foundation was available for such things17:39
nubaeok, I'll add to agenda17:39
nubaehow about adding new apps to be included for jaunty too?17:39
LaserJockyes, we should discuss which ones to target17:40
nubaeok, added both items to agenda17:41
nubaeoh... quick question about squeak, I noticed its in multiverse17:42
nubaeI thought it was in universe17:42
LaserJockno, multiverse because it's not free17:42
nubaeit is now17:42
nubaeits totally free now17:43
LaserJockbut the packages we currently have are not17:43
nubaeno really, I've checked the licensing :-)17:43
nubaeoh, ok17:43
LaserJockno really, I've checked the code ;-)17:43
nubaethis is the vm thing17:43
LaserJockthe squeak vm is not what I'd call great licensing17:43
nubaeyeah i know17:43
nubaebut they are able to include the source along with that17:44
LaserJockbut I'm done getting worked up about it ;-)17:44
LaserJockwell, I don't so much mind that issue actually17:44
nubaeyeah, they are not gonna change their ways.. its just a very important package is all17:44
LaserJockbut they were call ing things GPL that weren't17:44
LaserJockthey were including non-free patent-laden code and calling it GPL17:44
nubaeyeah i remember17:45
nubaebut they rewrote all those parts supposedly17:45
LaserJockand when I asked the author about it he sent me a snotty email ;-)17:45
nubaehehe, ok, but it shouldnt get personal17:45
LaserJockhowever, it sounds as if Debian's got things worked out pretty well17:45
LaserJockso we can take their package hopefully17:45
nubaeok, about this MIR thing... should I go through the process for a particular app?17:46
LaserJockwell, we need to figure out what apps we'd like to get17:46
LaserJockand then yeah, each one will need to go through the MIR17:47
nubaeyep, I sent an email to the list about that17:47
nubaemaybe add your 2 cents...17:47
LaserJock I will17:47
nubaerevive the list a bit :-)17:47
LaserJockthe replacements are a bit more tricky17:47
LaserJockwe have the issue of inertia17:48
nubaehmm, I thought that would be easier... like u can give more reasoning for it17:48
nubaesay package x is buggy so we replace with better maintained package y17:48
LaserJockwell, it's easier to say "look, we don't have any app that does ..."17:48
nubaeok, from that perspective I get too17:48
LaserJockbut when people have already been using the app, etc.17:49
LaserJockand we're going to replace it17:49
LaserJockwe need a bit more thought, IMO17:49
LaserJockfor instance, you said kompozer was pretty buggy17:49
nubaeyeah, I've found it to crash17:49
nubaebut there is no replacement for it, its the only real WYSIWYG web editor17:50
nubaethere are lots of non-wysiwyg editors17:50
LaserJockis it worse than screem? is it buggeir in different ways that are better/worse? is upstream responsive? etc.17:50
nubaescreem is not WYSIWYG17:50
nubaeand its as buggy as kompozer17:50
LaserJockso bluefish is actually the proper replacement for screem?17:52
LaserJockkompozer is a new category of app17:52
nubaealthough looking at launchpad, there are no open bugs with screem, but thats for sure cause no one uses it17:52
LaserJockno  open bugs?!17:53
nubaenope, well last open bug is in there from gutsy!17:53
LaserJockscreem has 21 open bugs17:53
nubaeoh wait17:54
nubaelooking in wrong place17:54
nubaeI looked in the package itself17:54
nubaeso kompozer has far less17:54
nubaeno sigsevs17:55
LaserJockkompozer has 28 open bugs17:55
nubaehmmm, where u seeing that?17:55
nubaeI only found 1217:55
LaserJockwith a rough count of 17 sigsevs17:56
jussi01bug 26344117:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 263441 in kompozer "kompozer crashes in intrepid when opening the recent files menu" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26344117:56
nubaehmm I see 10 there, not 2817:56
alkisgAmaya is another one17:57
nubaeyeah amaya is unusable... u tried it ever?17:57
alkisgBut I've used all of them, and all crashed so frequently that I had to switch to fckeditor17:57
nubaebluefish is allright17:57
jussi01how about quanta+?17:57
nubaebut yeah you're right, they all suck balls... I use wine+dreamweaver17:58
LaserJocknubae: oh, you know what it is, the sigsevs are private bugs17:58
LaserJocknubae: so I can see them and you can't :(17:58
nubaeah :-)17:58
LaserJockthat's kinda dumb17:59
nubaeI was getting kinda confused... u're definitely seeing stuff I am not17:59
LaserJocka person can get a really bad perception of a package that way17:59
nubaewhy are sigsevs private?17:59
LaserJockbecause they contain crash data17:59
LaserJockwhich *may* contain personal info17:59
nubaejussi01: quanta seems ok too17:59
LaserJockonce we verify that there isn't any we un-private them18:00
nubaeLaserJock: aaahhh :-)18:00
nubaeand that responsibility falls to u too?18:00
nubaesurely that is something u could load off to someone else18:00
LaserJockwell, to somebody who can see them anyway ;-)18:00
nubaedoesnt need your precious time18:00
LaserJockwell, that's why I need people to step up a bit in terms of development18:01
LaserJockI *think* people in the bug-control team can see them, I don't think you need to be a full dev18:01
nubaewell... I've seen lots of people wanting to get involved, again, the process is a little bit mistifying18:01
nubaehow one officially becomes part of the edubuntu community I mean18:01
LaserJockshow up here :-)18:02
nubaeu know that will be only 5% of the mailing list, if that... not everyone knows or likes IRC18:02
LaserJockor can even use IRC (port blocking)18:02
nubaeyeah indeed, school wise for sure18:03
nubaeI think it would be great to get students involved in this process18:03
alkisgIt may also be the opposite... younger people prefer IRC over mailing lists! :)18:03
nubaelots of the tasks can be done by kids18:03
LaserJockit's a tricky situation18:03
LaserJockUbuntu is very much developed on IRC18:03
LaserJockDebian is mostly mailing lists18:03
nubaewe need to be in a position to allow a teacher to get his kids to tackle bugs and help the edubuntu community, I think it would be a great way to increase participation18:04
nubaealkisg: ??18:04
LaserJockfor me personally, I prefer mailing lists as I can get to it when I can18:04
nubaeyeah and remember it.. irc often is discussion18:04
alkisgnubae: haven't you seen 15-25 year old students? All IRC, no mailing lists...18:05
nubaedon't get me wrong, I think its been very valuable to do what have until now18:05
nubaealkisg: yeah I meant, what do u think about getting your students involved in edubuntu community tasks18:05
nubaeits a great collaborative excercise18:05
alkisgAh, my students are 12-14 years old, can't really offer anything18:06
nubaeapp testing, finding bugs and writing them up18:06
alkisgHalf of them don't even speak english18:06
alkisgAnd all of them see linux for the first time...18:06
nubaek... but in general it would be a good idea no?18:07
alkisgI don't know. I thought about students offering to wikipedia or dictionaries, but bug sqashing? It may be too much for them...18:07
nubaenot squashing, reporting18:08
nubaeoh but they need launchpad accounts for that dont they?18:08
alkisgBug reporting could be done by teachers... It don't be reliable from students18:08
alkisgMany developers ignore non-detailed bug reports, imagine what they'll do if students flood them with "app X hang"18:09
nubaewell as long as they say how it happened, its a start18:10
nubaebut maybe its too specialised yeah18:10
nubaeso quanta is kde's web development package18:11
LaserJockalthough they're waiting for a KDE 4 version18:11
nubaeand gnome has no official one?18:11
alkisgA pity that komposer isn't updated any more18:11
nubaewhatcha mean?18:12
alkisgnvu development stopped, and I think komposer only fixed a few bugs after nvu, nothing more18:12
alkisgI don't think anyone is writing new code & producing new versions18:12
alkisgIt was the best of them (amaya, screem, bluefish, quanta etc)18:13
LaserJockI thought kompozer was moving forward :(18:13
nubaekompozer was supposed to be a replacement for nvu I thought18:13
LaserJocknubae: are you in the edubuntu-bugs team18:13
nubaeI'll join18:13
LaserJockI *think* that might let you see these private bugs18:14
nubaek, just applied18:14
nubaegod, there are so many different edubuntu related lists18:14
nubaesome totally dead18:15
LaserJockwe have more LP teams than xubuntu or kubuntu I believe18:15
nubaethat was last updated like 2 years ago :-)18:15
nubaeand that looks like the official team, with the icon and everything18:16
nubaeand there seem to be lots of people trying to join....18:16
nubaeits no wonder we get so few volunteers18:16
LaserJockI think that's just a placeholder or something18:17
nubaea placeholder that people are applying for18:17
LaserJockwell, that's common18:17
LaserJockpeople just apply for *every* team in Launchpad18:17
alkisgHmmm... it turns out I was wrong: http://wysifauthoring.informe.com/forum/kompozer-progress-ae-linux-gtk-o2-14-dt1940.html18:18
alkisgSomeone is still working on Kompozer, good! :)18:18
nubaeah good...18:18
nubaeare there any more hidden teams I should know about?18:19
nubaewell not obviously visible to me18:19
alkisgMaybe someone could contact him to have the next Kompozer version ready for Jaunty? :P18:19
nubaewell thats not a bad idea, might give some drive18:20
nubaeok, I applied for edubuntu-documentation too18:21
nubaewhat is edubuntu-testers?18:22
LaserJocka team for testing edubuntu?18:22
nubaeu can see most of these people joined due to ltsp18:23
LaserJockedubuntu-members and edubuntu-bugs are the only teams that I know that actually do anything18:23
LaserJockwell, most of those teams are from the LTSP days18:23
nubaecan't we either disband them or fix the memberships?18:24
LaserJockwell, we were going to do that like a year ago18:24
LaserJockbut we never got around to it18:24
nubaewhat does it require doing?18:25
LaserJockI wanted to remove them, but other people felt that was harsh18:25
nubaeif they do nothing, it just confuses everyone18:25
LaserJockbecause you're shutting down other peoples stuff18:25
LaserJockI'm not sure if Launchpad would even let us do it18:25
nubaebut that would imply they do something18:25
LaserJocka launchpad team doesn't have to do anything to exist18:26
nubaeI've noticed, but we should be able to spring clean18:26
Ahmuckgood afternoon nubae18:26
LaserJockbut we don't own those teams18:26
LaserJockthat's really the crux of the matter18:26
nubaeok, so maybe we should mention no the website, which teams actually do something18:26
nubaehi Ahmuck18:27
nubaelike on the community page say... these are the teams to apply to if you want to get involved18:27
nubaeso we have something half way official18:27
LaserJocknubae: I think we could ping the owners to see if we can get them to clean up18:27
LaserJockbut otherwise, yeah, I think we just document which ones are official18:28
nubaeI think Oli is an admin on many of those18:28
nubaeyeah some18:29
LaserJockin the strategy doc I'm outlining the official teams18:29
nubaek, cool18:29
LaserJockhopefully that will help18:30
nubaehttps://launchpad.net/~edubuntu is not a placeholder18:31
nubaeits the main link u get when searching edubuntu in launchpad18:31
nubaethat should really change18:31
LaserJockwell, I'm not sure what we can do about it18:32
nubaecant we get the link changed to edubuntu members?18:33
nubaeit contains all the same people + the active ones18:33
LaserJockalright, well #ubuntu-motu says that kompozer is dying and that there is going to be a replacement18:33
nubaeah, k scratch that one then18:33
LaserJockwhat link?18:34
LaserJockoh, so you want to put a link to edubuntu-members or something from launchpad.net/~edubuntu18:34
nubaeor u ping someone there and get yourself on that list to fix it18:35
nubaethen u could get edubuntu-members and bugsquad to be sub members of it18:35
LaserJockor we actually use it for something18:35
nubaethat would make the most sense, make that the hub that links the sub teams18:36
nubaethen we could put bugsquad, members, documentation, and website underneath it18:36
nubaeand manage it all properly18:36
nubaelooks like seamonkey18:38
LaserJockhmm, we could make ~edubuntu a fanboy team18:39
LaserJockand add in the official teams18:39
nubaeyeah... shall I add doing that to the agenda?18:39
nubaek now we should have lots to talk about tomorrow ;-)18:41
LaserJockso Xubuntu has: users, contributors, documentors, developers, council, and project lead18:42
nubaesounds more organised than us :p18:42
LaserJockthey have more of everything than us :-)18:43
LaserJockalthough they almost imploded during Hardy18:43
LaserJockCody wrote their strategy doc and because XPL and it's done much better18:44
nubaebecause XPL?18:45
LaserJockXubuntu Project Lead18:45
nubaestill only see 10 open bugs for komopzer... guess u need to be a dev too18:47
Ahmuckis gimpshop still active?18:51
nubaesure, seems the latest version was recently released18:53
Ahmucklet me check18:54
nubaethey're release schedule is quite unclear though18:55
Ahmuckcan u point me to where you found the latest version?18:58
Ahmucki can't seem to find it'18:58
LaserJockLaunchpad permissions are horrible18:59
LaserJockeven #launchpad can't tell me who get's to see private bugs18:59
LaserJockthe Ubuntu Bugmaster doesn't know either19:00
nubaeso much for decentralised bazaar style development19:00
nubaeAhmuck: on gimpshop's page19:00
LaserJockso tonyyarusso is the guy that packaged kompozer and generally takes care of it. we could ask him about his thoughts on getting it into Main19:05
LaserJockthe other thing we haven't considered a ton is moving Edubuntu to Universe19:05
LaserJockor perhaps split19:06
LaserJockwe could keep the Ubuntu Education CD as Main but then provide official Universe bundles19:06
nubaeI think the latter is a good idea19:06
nubaethat way we have official well supported, and not so supported apps19:07
nubaeand it gives app makers a reason to keep their stuff updated19:07
nubaetheir goal should be to get into main19:07
LaserJockyeah, IMO, it's a good thing to shoot for19:07
nubaeand then edubuntu name makes sense19:08
nubaeubuntu education cd, finally makes sense19:08
LaserJockhmm, you're right19:08
nubaeits the official ubuntu education apps found in main19:08
LaserJock"Edubuntu" == eduction in Ubuntu19:08
nubaewow, what a weird solutino19:08
nubaebut it makes total sense19:08
nubaewhy did we not think of that till now19:09
LaserJock"ubuntu Education CD" == specific subset of eductional package that are officially supported by canonical, etc.19:09
nubaeit totally makes sense and is not confusing19:09
nubaehow about that19:09
nubaek, I'll add that to the agenda, and maybe we should put that into the strategy doc, as it seems important not to forget19:10
nubaeI feel like a lot of stuff is getting clearer today...19:12
LaserJockwell, it's not totally buttoned up for me yet19:13
nubaeno but actually advancing is already something19:14
LaserJockwe need to see how that would work for RichEd19:14
nubaeso for that to happen, edubuntu would have to be main+universe19:14
nubaeI think he'll actually like this proposition19:14
nubaeits sort of what he has wanted19:14
nubaethis way, canonical/ubuntu tightly controls the central edu apps, and edubuntu itself is a looser community that includes more edu apps19:16
nubaeloser, not loozer....19:16
LaserJockI think looser19:17
LaserJockbut yeah, that sort of make sense19:17
LaserJockso some technical details could be having ubuntu-edu-* being educational bundles from Main19:18
LaserJockand edubuntu-* being eductional bundles from Universe19:18
nubaeI still don't think we should include every edu app in it though19:18
nubaethe apps should still be handpicked19:18
LaserJockjust much broader19:19
nubaeyup, a general rule could be ubuntu-edu should have just one app per cat.19:20
nubaeand be in main of course19:20
LaserJockwell, this sort of makes sense19:24
LaserJockI've been struggling a bit with the concept of "Edubuntu = community only"19:24
LaserJockas well, our community does technical things19:24
LaserJockit's a bit weird to have the community and the things it does having different names19:25
nubaeI think if u explain it this way to anyone they won't give u blank stares19:25
nubaealso, there is a clear technical split19:26
nubaeits not just semantics19:26
LaserJockright, yeah19:26
LaserJockso we'll see what RichEd thinks about that19:27
LaserJockI think he'll like it19:27
nubaeyep, hopefully he'll hit the meeting... I think he will too, I think it will box everything in nicely19:27
nubaehe can go back to canonical with that and they'll be able to define clearly what they are responsible for19:28
nubaeand say yay or nay19:28
LaserJockI'm still a bit curious how Canonical plans to support these apps without employing any devs :-)19:30
nubaeheh... especially if the edubuntu part gets donations...19:31
nubaecause u couldn't justify those going to main apps19:31
nubaestill I'm sure if suddenly they got contracts for multiple schools they'd put a dev back on ubuntu-edu right quick19:32
LaserJockI'm not so sure, but maybe19:33
LaserJockhmm, this new thinking would make the app lists on edubuntu.org much nicer as well19:33
LaserJockas we would probably want to list both sets19:33
nubaeyep, kinda centralise that as a definition19:34
nubaemove away from the idea of just the addon-cd19:34
nubaewe could include the universe apps on the cd as recommends19:35
nubaeu know, getting the ~edubuntu page back really makes sense too, because it would give a clear idea of the volunteers inolved and their areas of activity19:36
LaserJockwell, I'm not sure about putting Universe stuff on the CD19:38
nubaewell, we have the space19:38
nubaeI guess it depends on if canonical wants to ship or not19:38
nubaethe website, btw, still mentions they ship the cd19:39
LaserJockI think we'd fill it up fairly quickly, and I sort of want to keep that as a target19:39
LaserJockedubuntu is really just strange :-)19:39
LaserJockit's more "supported" than Xubuntu, Mythbuntu, or Ubuntu Studio19:40
LaserJockyet you hardly ever see it around in listings of *buntu19:40
nubaeyeah well one reason is its hard to define what it is19:40
LaserJockit's not a distro anymore19:41
nubaealthough it kinda is with edubuntu-artwork and edubuntu-desktop19:42
LaserJockit's a hybrid!19:43
* LaserJock thinks of a movie trailer intro19:43
LaserJock"half distro, half addon layer  .... Edubuntu has come to take over  your school!!!"19:43
nubaecoming soon on a desktop near you19:44
LnsDoes anyone have information on how specifically schools in the U.S. get their funding every year (dates, processes, etc.)? I'm trying to gather information on this so in the future i can better market to them things like Edubuntu, LTSP, etc19:58
nubaeLaserJock: might know, ask the question again :-)20:04
LaserJockwhat question?20:05
LaserJockI'm gone 2 seconds an people are asking questions? :-)20:05
Lnsnubae: oh i think mine.. Lns Does anyone have information on how specifically schools in the U.S. get their funding every year (dates, processes, etc.)? I'm trying to gather information on this so in the future i can better market to them things like Edubuntu, LTSP, etc (so far i've found this: http://www.ed-data.k12.ca.us/articles/article.asp?title=Guide to California School Finance System )20:05
LaserJockI don't know a ton of specifics20:06
LaserJockbut generally you have the June-July fiscal year and funding through their state budgets20:07
LnsLaserJock: ok, thanks.. yeah i see states fund a LOT of the budget (by far the most)20:07
LaserJockeach state is likely to be a little bit different20:09
LaserJockbut generally I think the general concept is the same20:10
LaserJockhowever, I'm not an educator exactly so don't rely on me ;-)20:10
LnsLaserJock: no, the more info the better. that site i linked to has lots of good info as well20:10
nubaethat kind of info would of course be useful to put up somewhere20:11
nubaeas a way to get edubuntu deployed20:11
LaserJockwell, at one point we had a "team" of people interested in advocay/marketing20:12
LnsLaserJock: i'd be interested in joining that team if it ever comes around again20:13
nubaeI thought thats what RichEd did?20:13
LaserJockseems like at some point we had people for everything ;-)20:13
LaserJockwell, basically for Canonical yes20:13
LaserJockultimately he's trying to bring in business from the eductional sector for Canonical20:14
Lnsmaybe this could be a good topic for tomorrow's meeting?20:14
nubaek, logical20:14
nubaewhat topic exactly?20:14
LaserJockI think we really need to try to start small20:15
LaserJockone of the biggest problems I've seen with Edubuntu over the few years I've been here is that we very easily overreach20:15
Lnsnubae: the topic of edubuntu advocacy in schools20:15
nubaeLns: by all means add it to the page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda#preview20:16
nubaeLaserJock: I agree... I think the 2 main things that need to be talked about are the edubuntu (main or universe) and ~edubuntu launchpad readjusment20:17
Lnsill leave it out till next meeting then probably20:17
nubaesince they kind of create the infrastructure for the future and for how/where people get involved20:17
LaserJockLns: no, it's fine to add it20:17
LaserJockwe'll see if we have tim20:17
nubaeLaserJock: did u ask on #launchpad whether we can get control of ~edubuntu?20:18
LaserJockwe have control of ~edubuntu20:19
LaserJockin the sense that ogra owns it20:19
nubaeah k20:19
LaserJockbut several of the other edubuntu teams are not owned by any of edubuntu devel team20:20
Lnsman i love the history -> recently closed tabs feature in ff20:20
LaserJockor edubuntu council20:20
LaserJockLns: yes, it is nice20:20
LaserJockwhat would be ideal is to have an ~edubuntu-council team that would own all the other edubuntu teams20:21
LaserJockso we can then do whatever needs to be done20:21
LnsFor those interested, here's just a bit more on how schools receive their funding (in the US anyway): http://www.edsource.org20:55
nubaeare there incentives to use open source to get funding?20:57
Lnsnubae: not that i've researched yet, but im sure there are some, way deep in someone's filing cabinet somewhere ;)20:58
Lnsthe cost benefits of using F/OSS (as well as a centralized system such as LTSP) are quite obvious, however, it wouldn't be difficult to communicate that to any district board20:59
nubaeI wish there was a reasonable desktop tool that could do what google calendar does21:18
Lnsnubae: sunbird?21:20
nubaelooked at that, but it doesnt do the calendar sharing like google calendar does, and tries to do a bunch more stuff that really isn't needed... but I haven't looked into in detail21:20
Lnsnubae: sure it does (do sharing), using webdav. Its just a calendar, pretty focussed on that actually..ive been using it for years21:21
nubaethe best would be some app that imports google calendars21:21
nubaehave u used google calendar before?21:21
Lnsnubae: no21:21
Lnsnever needed to ;)21:21
Lnsbut if googlecal can export calendars into .ics, you can import it into sunbird21:22
nubaewell the thing is google calendar is also integrated with most mobile phones21:22
Lnslol..sounds like you want to stick with google cal ;)21:23
nubaeand most people use google calendar so u can easily share your calendar with them21:23
nubaeno I want a desktop app that does the same thing :-)21:23
nubaedont want to keep having to go to a website21:23
Lnsnubae: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/sunbird/addon/463121:23
nubaehmmm interesting21:24
Lns;) that was approximately 2 seconds of googling. :p21:24
nubaewell I was more looking for actual apps, rather than an extension to sunbird... but point taken21:25
Lnsi see a GCALDaemon that does syncing automatically21:26
alkisgnubae, you may directly use google calendars from evolution21:26
nubaeunfortunately, when u go offline it looses the details though21:26
alkisgEither read/write (not really stable) or read-only (very stable)21:26
Lnsnubae: well what use is google calendar when you're offline?21:26
nubaeto see my schedule21:26
nubaeand other people's... it should save them locally21:27
alkisgIt doesn't loose the data when you go offline21:27
nubaesunbird does21:27
alkisg(talking about evolution)21:27
Lnsevolution suuuuuucks :p imho sorry21:27
nubaeI've looked at evolution and I didn't like its integration, dont remember why21:27
Lnsi don't like linux apps that try to be windows apps21:28
alkisgWell, I think what it tries to do is just fine, I love the desktop integration.21:28
alkisgIt's most major problem is the html editor for the messages, it kinda sucks21:29
alkisgThey're looking to replace it with a webkit-based one21:29
Lnsalkisg: can you give some integration examples?21:30
alkisgWell, I click on the time and I see my appointments, birthdays etc that I declared in google calendar without even opening evolution21:30
nubaewhat is nice with sunbird is that it integrates with xmpp-salut21:31
alkisgAlso it integrates with pidgin, sharing/updating contacts21:32
nubaeI dont care about pidgin... I want empathy...21:32
alkisgAnd of course with the file manager etc, sending files as attachments directly from nautilus21:32
alkisgI saw your blog entry, I suppose it'll be nice when it's ready21:32
alkisgBut I think it's kind of early, even for jaunty21:33
nubaeI've been using for a while now, and it crashes less often than pidgin21:33
nubaerequires some tweaking to get everything working21:33
nubaebut when its setup its beautiful21:33
alkisgYou're using it as an IRC client also?21:33
nubaeworks fantastically21:34
alkisgI've never seen pidgin crash, I guess I'm lucky!21:34
nubaetake a look at my screenshots21:34
nubaeyeah u are lucky... pidgin used to crash on me daily21:34
alkisgI used to miss the mic/camera support, but I don't need it much lately, so I'm not in a hurry to switch to empathy21:34
Lnsweird, i use pidgin all the time and it never crashes on me either21:35
Lnsgets disconnected from services sometimes, but that;s the nature of not using an "approved" client to said services21:35
Lnsalkisg: wow, that is nice to see your appts. in gnome calendar thingie21:36
Lnsof course i just ctl+alt+f1 to see sunbird anyway, its always in my workspace #121:36
nubaeI dont see where u can import google calendar in evolution21:37
nubaemaybe I'm blind21:37
alkisgLns, what about contact syncrhonization with your mobile phone? Can you do that with thunderbird?21:37
Lnsalkisg: doubtful, though it does have ldap support for contacts21:37
alkisgNubae, you don't import it, you go new calendar and declare that it's a google calendar21:37
Lnsi wouldn't use that anyway.. i dont want my work contacts in my personal phone :p21:38
alkisgYou could split them in different categories, and only sync your personal contacts21:38
Lnsalkisg: tbh i'd rather use an ldap source if i was looking for a global contact db21:38
Lnsthat way it integrates with anything at all that supports ldap21:39
nubaedoes it copy all my google calendars... ie the shared ones too?21:39
alkisgnubae, each calendar is a seperate one21:39
nubaeso u have add each one seperately?21:39
alkisgSo you declare the ones you want21:39
nubaehmm, but I dont have username and password for many of the shared calendars21:40
nubaewhat I'm asking is... I subscribe to another calendar from google calendar21:40
nubaedo I then see it in evolution?21:40
alkisgNo, you have to declare it there also21:40
alkisgWithout username/password, just the url21:41
alkisgBut in this case, it's read only21:41
nubaealkisg: that doesn't seem to work21:43
alkisgThat's declared as webcal, not google calendar21:44
nubaeunder name I put the name of the calendar (olpcaustria.org in this case)21:44
nubaethen click ok, and nothing shows21:44
nubaebut the calendar is a shared google calendar21:45
alkisgI've been using it for 7-8 months now, it works fine. But I also have difficulties remembering how I did it in the first place! :P :D21:45
alkisgYes, there's an .ics link for it, isn't there?21:45
alkisgE.g. I'm using a "Greek holidays" google shared calendar21:46
nubaethis then: ID de Calendar: 86c82lk0g9qb3bk04tmrrg04gs@group.calendar.google.com21:47
alkisgYou should be able to see the .ics file if you go to its properties in google21:47
alkisgLet me try it...21:48
nubaenah u can download a .ics file though21:49
alkisgE.g. this is the URL for Greek holidays: http://www.google.com/calendar/ical/greek__el%40holiday.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics21:49
alkisgYes, this is what you put for read-only web calendars, just the .ics file21:49
alkisgEvolution then caches a copy and shows it locally21:49
nubaebut then I need to download that every time21:50
alkisgFor read-write calendars you need username/password21:50
alkisgNo, it caches it21:50
nubaewhy not give me an address then, why make me download it?21:50
alkisgSo it works offline etc21:50
nubaeoh wait found it21:50
nubaeits an ICAL link21:50
alkisgYou don't have to download it, evolution downloads it for you21:50
nubaethey dont call it .ics21:50
nubaeok, still missing something here... whats the address then: webcal://http:// doesn't seem right21:55
alkisgNo. Let me run evolution with an english UI...21:56
nubaeoh wait got it21:56
nubaejust need to take out http://21:56
nubaenow I believe you, lol :p21:56
alkisgOK... the nice thing is that if you click at the time, you may see your appointments, even the days where you have programmed something are bold etc, very nice21:57
nubaeyeah its nice, ok, now its usable, thanks alkisg :-) learn something new every day22:02
alkisgOK, tommorow we have "fog": how to clone 30 PCs in 30 minutes :P22:03
alkisghttp://www.fogproject.org/ - but it's for tomorrow! :P :D22:04
nubaeu part of their team or what?22:05
alkisgno - nothing like that, it's just a very nice project, and I was joking that it would be what I would teach you the next day (about the "you learn something every day" that you said)22:07
nubae:p ah :-)22:07
ubottuSorry, I don't know anything about o23:15
Lnsawww..o is for ogra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111one23:15
nubaeonly the ltsp bot knows that23:15
nubaeI believe :-)23:16
nubaeLns: u part of edubuntu members?23:16
Lnsnubae: iirc yes.. on lp?23:17
nothingmanhi, nubae!23:19
nubaehi nothingman23:19
nothingmanI've been hoping to run into you23:19
nubaehow can I help u23:19
nothingmanj/w: how did you come to be so involved with edubuntu?23:19
nubaeLns: u should apply, as tomorrow the council should decide if u get approved or not...23:20
nothingmanI've been reading your page and some of the pages of people contributing23:20
nubaenothingman: I feel its important to contribute to education through open source projects, so I do what I can23:20
nubaeLns: u're part of edubuntu bugsquad23:22
Lnsnubae: done23:22
nubaefunny to put a face to the name23:23
nubaemost people don't have pics on their profiles :-)23:23
Lnsits important to do that..you know, since after all, we're human, not bits ;)23:24
nubaeyeah :-)23:25
nothingmannubae: you don't have any ties to education otherwise?23:34
nubaeyes I do... I've been a teacher, IT consultant, OLPC volunteer and moodle hacker...23:35
nothingmanI noticed you had a get-together in Maine; I'm in NY - do you live in New England?23:35
nubaeso I do a little bit of everything as long as it contains IT and education23:35
nubaeme, get together in Maine?... nah u must be thinking of the ltsp hackfest23:36
nothingmanI'm a tech teacher/admin for two catholic schools in my area23:36
nubaeno, I'm located in Europe23:36
nubaeVienna, Austria23:36
nubaenothingman: cool, u should get involved with edubuntu, we need folks to contribute23:36
nothingmanyeah, would love to23:36
nothingmancan I call myself a "beginner coder"?23:37
nothingmanI would love to help document23:37
nubaeu can call yourself what u like :-)23:37
nothingmanI think I'd be helpful getting "regular" teachers to be able to use the software23:37
nubaehang around this channel when u can... and tomorrow we have a developer meeting at 18 utc23:37
nubaeyeah we need help in lots of areas23:37
nothingmangood deal23:38
nothingmanI can't tomorrow night; have to work my part-time job23:38
nothingmanbut I'll check the log on your habari23:38
nubaeah k.. well u can always check the logs23:38
nubaethats for #ltsp23:38
nubaethere should be a log on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Edubuntu23:39
nothingmanI thought you had a link on your site23:39
nothingmanbut OK23:39
nothingmannever mind, I got it23:39
nubaeto #ltsp yes, but thats #ubuntu-meeting23:39
nothingmanI will23:39
nothingmanWe have a lot of laptops whose hard drives are dying23:39
nubaeyeah that happens23:40
nubaeusually just after the warrant expires :-)23:40
nothingmanideally, I would install something to an SD card or USB stick, but I don't know of a device older than a netbook that boots from SD, and the kids'd break a thumb drive23:40
nubaehardware companies are very tricky that way23:40
nothingmanbut they're *nice*23:40
nothingmandecent intel graphics, 256MB RAM, SD slots, KVMS...23:41
nubaeif they contain SD drives, they should boot from them23:41
nubaemaybe u need an updated bios23:41
nubaethe other option is set them up as ltsp clients23:41
nothingmanwireless, but of course that's useless to boot from, so useless as clients23:41
nothingmanyeah, I have23:41
nothingmanI'm trying to get two servers going for one school (one down) and one for the other (a nightmare)23:41
nothingmanany idea how to update h2insyde BIOSes?23:42
nothingmanthey're nexlink computers23:42
nubaenope but a search on the net should bring up some results23:42
nothingmanthis is a question for all takers because google reveals nothing23:42
nubaetry the homepage of the computer companies website23:42
nothingmanyeah, that was fruitless, too23:44
nubaehmm strange23:44
nothingmanthey don't even have a support page for the model (now 4-5yrs old, tbf)23:44
nubaewhat about using those new tiny usb sticks, the ones that hardly stick out23:44
nubaeI've got one that is just the length of the usb slot, so u can't hardly see it23:45
nothingmanyeah, how much are those?23:46
nothingmanI'm now being told that we don't have much money for hardware23:46
nubaeyou're a school, of course u don't have money for hardware :-)23:46
nubaeI'd guess about 10-20 dollars a piece23:46
nothingmanlast year the interim principle wrote checks like crazy if I asked for anything23:46
nothingmanI can't seem to find one23:47
nubaesomething like that23:49
nothingmangood prices there23:51
* LaserJock reads backscroll23:57
* nubae was recruiting :-)23:57
LaserJocknothingman: we'd love to have you get involved with edubuntu23:58
LaserJockhmm, there's a lot we need to do23:58
nubaeyeah, that list of tasks will be useful23:59
nubaebut really the best place would be with the edubuntu members page or some such23:59
LaserJockwell, we need to get some things together23:59

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