sainath_i have a few doubts on libwnck06:11
sainath_some functions are defined in private.h file. But this file is in source code .But when installed we can't find it in /usr/include/libwnck/06:12
sainath_how can i use functions declared in private.h06:13
pittiGood morning07:40
didrocksmorning pitti :)07:44
pittihey didrocks07:53
crevettehey seb12808:36
seb128lut crevette08:37
seb128hey mvo08:40
seb128crevette: I'm looking to your gedit update08:40
mvohey seb128!08:41
seb128crevette: no need to send the upstream tarball on launchpad btw you can just give the GNOME url08:41
didrockshi seb128, mvo & crevette08:42
seb128lut didrocks08:42
crevetteseb128, okay08:43
seb128crevette: +GEDIT_PLUGINS_DATA_DIR="$datadir/gedit-2/plugins"08:46
seb128crevette: that might be a different directory, did you try to build it locally?08:47
crevetteI should create a pbuilder on my machine08:48
seb128why not building it directly on your machine?08:48
seb128crevette: the .ui are in the the share directory and not lib now08:51
crevetteI think my laptop is not very convenient for building, and even if I built it on my machine I didn't had found the issue.08:51
crevettebut I will setup a pbuilder08:51
crevetteseb128, when I build on  my laptop on can keep the build directory ?08:52
seb128crevette: using pbuilder you mean?08:52
crevetteif you know it, else I'll find08:52
seb128crevette: try to pbuilder login and build there08:53
seb128rather than using pbuilder build08:53
* crevette would have to have a build machine :)08:54
seb128crevette: just remove the *.ui line in gedit.install, they get installed in gedit-common anyway now and it builds correctly09:00
huatsmorning everyone09:20
didrocksmorning huats o/09:21
seb128lut huats09:23
huatshello seb12809:23
seb128didrocks: btw did you do any of those updates yesterday?09:23
seb128huats: new gcalctool and gnome-keyring waiting for you ;-)09:23
huatsseb128: gcacltool already build locally09:24
seb128ok, I was guessing you would already known09:24
huatsI am about to test it (even if it is just a translation update)09:24
seb128you seem to notice new tarballs quickly nowadays ;-)09:24
seb128huats: and the libunique thing is still on your list? nautilus depwait on it ;-)09:25
huatslet's say that I am subscribe to the gnome-ftp list AND the gcalctool upstream send me an email just before any new release09:25
huatsseb128: I have started it a bit (the libunique stuff)09:25
huatsI will work on it today09:25
seb128huats: there is no so much to do, just copy the template, most things are not revelant there since that's only a lib09:25
seb128huats: that"s basically giving some clues about the softwares, how it's maintained upstream and in debian, etc09:26
huatsseb128: yep that is my opinion too09:26
seb128the actual review will be done by the mir team, the paper work is just to make their job a bit easier and to have record of the review, etc09:27
huatsto give them the pointer where to look :)09:27
didrocksseb128: merging with mvo g-c-c (using bzr ;))09:31
seb128didrocks: cool09:31
didrocksseb128: there was one remaining thing and I think mvo catch up what was going wrong (thanks again)09:31
seb128didrocks: did you find that easy?09:32
didrocksseb128: will do totem this evening09:32
huatsseb128: btw I have found (not really search) for gcalctool in bzr, is it normal ?09:37
huatsI mean the gcalctool packaging is already done in bzr or not ?09:37
didrocksseb128: (sorry, I was backlogging). yes, time-consuming at the beginning to find right documentation, but it's easy :)09:37
huats(since it is one of the goal of jaunty I guessed)09:37
seb128didrocks: we should do better on the documentation side then09:38
seb128huats: not if you didn't put it there09:38
seb128huats: only mvo does that around and I don't think he touched gcalctool09:38
huatsI might give that a look a bit later :)09:38
huats(I mean with mvo :))09:38
didrocksseb128: yes, I used jamesw's documentation but some parts are deprecated09:39
seb128what url? and what needs to be updated?09:40
didrocksI seek for it again (I am at work right now) :)09:40
huatsthanks didrocks for updating the docummentation :)09:40
huatsdidrocks: you call that a work ?09:40
didrockshuats: it's not me who update packages at work :p09:41
seb1282009 is still a trolling year between didrocks and huats ;-)09:41
huatsseb128: for sure :)09:41
didrocksseb128: James is aware about that, some pages are blank one : http://jameswestby.net/bzr/builddeb/user_manual/building.html and --dirstate-trees should not be used in http://jameswestby.net/bzr/builddeb/user_manual/merge.html09:42
seb128didrocks: ok, if he's aware about those that's good09:42
seb128we should have an easy wiki page for the desktop team though09:42
didrocksI think that's a good goal09:42
seb128something describing the few commands to run to get things started09:42
seb128and the few commands to use to work on something already in bzr09:43
didrocksI will try to find some time within this week-end for that and update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr09:43
didrocksseb128: so, if you have other packages requiring bzr it can help me to practice more before updating this :)09:44
seb128didrocks: cool!09:45
seb128didrocks: let me know when you want to no extra updates, or you can put totem in bzr if you want09:45
mvohuats: if you want to play with bzr-builddeb and have questions I'm happy to help - what we finally get with all the debian imports and upstream imports will probably feel a little bit different than how we use bzr right now though09:46
huatsI am finishing a few stuffs (I think today and tomorrow)09:46
huatsand after that I'll be happy to do that :)09:47
didrocksseb128: I will try to put totem in bzr so :)09:47
seb128that will make mvo happy ;-)09:47
* didrocks likes to make mvo happy ;)09:48
seb128and has a side effect that I can dump work on mvo claiming it's a bzr thing that I don't understand ;-)09:48
* seb128 hugs mvo09:48
didrockshehe :-)09:48
* mvo slaps seb12809:48
mvo(just very slightly)09:48
crevetteif someone has time tonight to drive me for bzr, I'd be happy09:48
seb128crevette: just ask on the chan when you have a question09:49
crevetteyeah, it is just there is not a lot of people after 10:00 pm, everybody is sleeping :)09:49
didrocksI will note questions to see where some precision are needed for the wiki09:49
didrocksand it will be so well described that seb128 will be abled to do it, saving mvo's time :)09:50
mvoone thing worth noting in the wiki is that downloading the tarball manually and putting it in place is not needed if debain/watch is available09:50
mvobzr-builddeb will just DTRT and use the changelog and watch file to get it09:50
seb128crevette: not really, there was less people during holidays but you should find people around now09:50
mvoso in the simplest case (that never happens ;) its just adding new changelog, bzr-builddeb; upload09:51
didrocksmvo: I will give a look at that, as I downloaded the tarball it yesterday09:51
didrocksmvo: bzr-builddeb can call pbuilder ? I used "bzr bd --builder pdebuild"09:52
mvoI think so, also I have not used it like this yet09:52
didrocksI will give it a try09:53
mvocool, keep me updated!09:54
seb128didrocks: you are using pbuilder every time? is that because you don't run jaunty yet?09:56
seb128just curious09:56
mvoseb128: the biggest obstacle with the g-c-c update is the xrandr patches, PITA really09:57
pittipatching glade?09:57
seb128mvo: that, and the appareance capplet and the proxy one too09:57
seb128yeah for changing half of the glade files there09:57
mvopitti: in this case changes in the way they use xrandr09:57
seb128oh, makes me think I need to ping tseliot about that09:58
mvoseb128: last time I did the update that was not *too* bad, I started writing a small python script that can help with the patching (very prototypish currently)09:58
didrocksseb128: I only run jaunty in a virtualbox for testing09:58
mvoseb128: I think didrocks fixed most of it09:58
didrocksseb128: I like the pbuilder hook to test updates, etc. :)09:59
mvo(and I'm finishing up some small issues that came up during the test-build now)09:59
seb128crevette: btw did you read my gedit comment before?10:00
didrocksseb128: tseliot told me yesterday that this change must be kept10:09
seb128didrocks: this change must be pushed upstream rather10:09
didrocksseb128: and upstream delibaretly put some comments to allow the contrary :)10:09
seb128upstream doesn't want the change?10:10
didrocksseb128: upstream makes possible to create a framebuffer size greater than the card can handle10:10
didrockstseliot patch prevent from that10:10
didrocksI don't know why, let me show you10:11
=== asac_ is now known as asac
didrocks(one sec)10:11
seb128didrocks: I know what the patch do10:11
seb128didrocks: I'm just wondering if there is a discussion to get the ubuntu changes upstream now10:11
didrocksseb128: no, no discussion, just added commentaries in the code that say "we allow..."10:11
seb128ah ok, sucks10:12
didrocksfor sure :/10:12
mvodidrocks: builds and works for me now10:12
didrocksmvo: thanks for polishing it \o/10:13
mvothanks for doing it :)10:13
crevetteseb128, which one ?10:16
mvodidrocks: I upload once you had a chance to test it10:18
didrocksmvo: I will keep you in touch, probably this evening10:18
* mvo nods10:18
seb128_I hate when the system freeze and you can't do anything out of pressing the power button and restart10:20
=== seb128_ is now known as seb128
didrocksseb128: I think we all hate this :)10:20
seb128no, jaunty10:20
seb128I just dist-upgraded my laptop totally yesterday evening10:20
seb128let's see if that was a coincidence10:20
crevetteI had several frezzes with jaunty too10:20
mvowork ok on my amd64 so far10:21
seb128mvo: your freezes at uds, you were running intrepid on your laptop still right?10:21
didrocksI freezed a lot in intrepid, but it was because one fan was dirty and didn't rotate anymore...10:26
didrocks(and yeah, I was first blaming intrepid wifi handling ;))10:26
pittiseb128: hm, what's the MIR you were waiting for? I didn't get mail about it, nor see it on the list; is ubuntu-mir sub'ed?10:37
seb128pitti: huats is working on it, I did do the upload before having the paper work done10:37
seb128huats: how is that going btw? ;-)10:37
huatspitti: it will be done this afternoon10:37
pittiah, ok10:38
pittiI just thought I was missing something10:38
* pitti hugs huats, thanks10:38
pittiwhat package is it?10:38
seb128pitti: the package is libunique if you want to look at the code already10:38
huatsyeah pitti another mail you are waiting from me, that has not been sent yet :)10:38
seb128huats: try to do the mir before the sru10:38
pittiSize: 2189610:39
huatsseb128: too late :(10:39
pittihuats: that seems pretty trivial; just file a MIR bug with the most important stuff, if it's a trivial library10:39
huatsseb128: the SRU has just been done10:39
pittiand don't waste time on a complete wiki page10:39
huatspitti: yep10:39
huatspitti: ok10:39
seb128huats: if you did the sru that's fine, but better to not block jaunty to get a sru done before ;-)10:39
huatsseb128: sure10:39
huatspitti: I have started the wiki page already10:40
huatsso it won't be long...10:40
cjwatsonDoes anyone mind if I upload gdm shortly? I'm keeping its init script in sync with some usplash fixes I'm making to take account of recent changes in sysv-rc11:25
pittifine for me; seb128 ^ ?11:29
cjwatsonI've fixed usplash leaving tty1 in a broken state on startup11:34
cjwatsonwhich was annoying me since X has been flaky of late11:34
seb128cjwatson: there is nobody working on gdm currently so feel free to upload your change11:37
cjwatsongreat, thanks11:40
pittiseb128: I like to file an upstream bug against the GTK print dialog; which component is that?11:56
seb128pitti: gtk+ gtkprint11:57
pittiah, merci11:57
seb128gtk+ printing rather11:57
=== racarr_ is now known as racarr
=== espacious_ is now known as espacious
slomomvo: committed your latest patch, thanks again :)13:43
mvoslomo: thanks!13:48
vuntzfwiw, http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/extracted/ubuntu/g/gnome-desktop/1:2.25.3-0ubuntu1/100_load_desired_settings.patch has a crasher14:22
ubottuGnome bug 565785 in libgnome-desktop "xrandr plugin of g-s-d crashes on startup" [Critical,Resolved: notgnome]14:22
=== ember_ is now known as ember
slomoseb128: could you sync gnonlin, gtask, gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg, gst-plugins-ugly0.10, gst-plugins-bad0.10 from debian/experimental ? :)14:46
seb128slomo: ok14:49
slomothanks :)14:52
* mvo hugs slomo15:01
mvohrm, too late15:01
didrocksbzr-buildpackage is a shell script that call bzr builddeb, so I can use my pbuilder script :)16:17
* ArneGoetje yawns16:28
rickspencer3hi desktoppers16:29
pittihappy new year everyone! I hope everyone's holidays were as nice as mine16:29
pittiseb128: here?16:29
calclooks like we are missing bryce?16:30
pittiI /msg'ed him16:30
pittican some USian give him a ring?16:30
seb128could somebody copy me the list of syncs slomo asked for on the chan before?16:31
rickspencer3this is my first time chairing the desktop team meeting, so please be patient :)16:31
calci can give him a call16:31
seb128I didn't note those and closed IRC since16:31
pittiseb128: I'll /msg you16:31
seb128pitti: thanks16:31
rickspencer3seb128: could you sync gnonlin, gtask, gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg, gst-plugins-ugly0.10, gst-plugins-bad0.10 from debian/experimental16:31
seb128rickspencer3: thanks16:31
=== JLP_ is now known as JLP
rickspencer3is anyone from the Dx team here?16:31
Tm_Thi sir Riddell and kids16:31
tedgrickspencer3: Hello16:32
asacmy "plan for next two weeks" was removed ;)16:32
calcno one answered at his house16:32
tedgGetting more coffee so that I could be patient :)16:32
rickspencer3asac: I'll add it back in16:32
rickspencer3copy and past error I am sure16:33
asacnot sure ... do we want them in or not?16:33
asacah ok16:33
rickspencer3I did it at 6:00am my time, so probably was a little groggy :)16:33
pittirickspencer3: enumeration in calc's wiki section is broken; perhaps you forgot the space in front of the '*'?16:33
rickspencer3pitti: prolly - I'll fix it up after the meeting16:34
* Tm_T huggggles seele 16:34
pittianyway, let's get started, until ArneGoetje falls asleep :)16:34
calcoops, sorry about forgetting to format my email that way :\16:34
seeleTm_T: hihi16:34
pittilet's defer specs until bryce arrives and start with DX integration?16:34
rickspencer3desktop team meeting starting16:34
* pitti hugs bryce, happy new year16:34
calcbryce: good morning, just left a message on your phone :)16:34
rickspencer3first, dbarth is joining for desktop integration16:34
davidbarththats davidbarth, the full version of it on freenode;) hi all16:35
rickspencer3there is a list on the internal wiki of components that the Dx team is going to touch - has anyone gotten a chance to look at it?16:35
Tm_Tdavidbarth: we don't like having trial versions anyway16:36
Riddellrickspencer3: I've looked at it, some of the KDE bits seem wrong16:36
davidbarthTm_T: :-D16:36
Riddellkwin has nothing to do with brightness16:36
asacdoes this need to stay internal now that actual work is supposed to start?16:36
rickspencer3asac: I don't know, probably should be public16:36
rickspencer3thoughts ... should it be moved to wiki.ubuntu?16:37
davidbarthi'm fine with that being moved to the normal wiki.ubuntu.com namespace16:37
rickspencer3okay, I'll do that today16:37
davidbarthbut before that i'd like to modify some planned supprot for applications16:37
davidbarthie, i don't want to give false expectations about what we can do for 9.0416:38
rickspencer3Can you tell us what we should plan for in 9.04?16:38
asacwhat page is it? (i think i looked at something but that was before holiday and so on ...)16:38
davidbarthfor example, for the messaging indicator, we only plan to focus on the default ubuntu apps, ie evolution + pidgin, but not the other ones16:38
pittimakes sense, given our heavily limited time in jaunty16:39
pittiand unlike the notifications, it's not a "all or nothing" thing16:39
davidbarththat is, we welcome contributions to add patches for other apps, but ted will not be able to patch them all by himself16:39
davidbarthtedg: or do you? ;)16:39
asacwhen will we see the "backend" side land in jaunty? and when are the patches for apps supposed to be ready. is there any timeline yet?16:39
tedgHeh, any application anywhere.  I'll patch it. ;)  I'm only comfortable committing to those two, but I'd like to do more if we can fit them in the schedule.16:40
davidbarthfor libnotify tedg should be able to have the library side + a client-side testing app by the end of January16:41
pittilibrary side for notify? it thought we would use the existing one?16:41
pittior do you mean "d-bus backend"?16:42
rickspencer3can we separate the indicator versus notification discussion for a moment?16:42
rickspencer3Looks like we started with indicators, and I think Dx is saying that they can only do evolution and pidgin in the new indicator, is that correct?16:43
davidbarthso if we're talking about the indicator (messaging indicator), then the planned support is limited to evolution and pidgin so far16:43
davidbarthagain, something we can commit to, with only internal resources16:43
rickspencer3that implies that the new indicator itself will be delivered as well16:43
rickspencer3when is the new indicator scheduled to land?16:43
davidbarthwe'll be happy to prove ourselves wrong by having more for 9.0416:43
asacwill you provide a tutorial or intro on how to migrate apps? would probably help to get external contributions16:44
tedgasac: Yes, we'll have some documentation.  Probably not terribly complete for feature freeze, but in progress.16:44
seelewhat does ubuntu use for IRC?  is there no message queue/indicator for it?16:44
davidbarthasac: tedg may comment better, but the code for the test app will provide some good copy/paste resource16:45
tedgI'm not counting on a bunch of apps for jaunty simply because we're so late.16:45
rickspencer3seele: pidgin is the default irc app16:45
davidbarth+ the doc ted can provide additionaly16:45
brycetedg: for contributions, it'd really be preferable to have it up well before ff16:45
pittiseele: default program is pidgin16:45
asactedg: nod16:45
pittiseele: but of course there are dozens of clients16:45
seelerickspencer3: pitti: ah, thanks16:45
tedgI'd be willing to bet that most of the people who just sent messages aren't running Pidgin though :)16:46
rickspencer3so sounds like: indicator to land in late January, Pidgin and evolution to work with new indicator, documentation for anyone who wants to integrate new apps late in Januty cycle16:46
davidbarthnow jonathan not being in my team i can't comment, but I'd love to have konversation support, even if kmail is more of priority, feature-wise16:46
Tm_Tdavidbarth: Konversation? I don't think Kubuntu will use that in 9.0416:47
Tm_Tdavidbarth: IIRC we are moving to Quassel16:47
rickspencer3can we move on to discussing KDE, because Riddell is on the hook for those apps16:47
davidbarthTm_T: Quassel, oh good to know16:47
seeledavidbarth: we are looking at a different irc client for Jaunty.  kde4libs only and konversation hasnt been ported yet16:47
pittitedg: the more contributed patches you'll receive :)16:47
seeleTm_T: the decision on quassel hasnt been made until after they follow through on the UI changes we requested16:48
rickspencer3Riddell: what is your understand of integrating the indicator into Kubuntu?16:48
davidbarthseele: too bad, i love my konversation; anyway is Quassel a definitive choice for 9.04?16:48
Tm_Tseele: I see, anyway, no Konversation atm16:48
tedgdavidbarth: I doubt we'll get much buy in from the KDE apps until we can make a KDE panel version of the indicator.  How's hiring the KDE guy going? ;)16:48
Riddellrickspencer3: I understand someone will get hired one day and modify the knotify and plasmoid indicator stuff to work with it16:49
apacheloggerdavidbarth: not yet, there are still some quirks upstream needs to resolve to make it fit our needs16:49
davidbarthtedg: mostly done, but then we have to cope with his notification period, which means no real help before the feature freeze :-(16:49
seeledavidbarth: not yet but it looks likely.  they are including kde4 integration and some workflow changes in the next version which will greatly improve it (i hope)16:49
tedgdavidbarth: \o/16:49
rickspencer3so are we saying that the new indicator is not in Kubuntu Jaunty?16:49
tedgrickspencer3: correct.16:50
rickspencer3can we move on to the notifications?16:50
davidbartherr, wait, sure?16:50
davidbarthtaking the list of kde apps16:50
davidbarthlisted on the wiki page: kmail, kopete, konversation, amarok,16:51
davidbarthso konversation is out,16:51
Riddellit really needs a design person to look at how the current spec should integrate sanely with KDE too16:51
davidbarthRiddell: right16:51
Riddellkonversation out until it's ported to KDE 4 at least16:51
rickspencer3davidbarth: are you going to create the indicator for KDE during Jaunty?16:52
Riddellkmail sure16:52
davidbarththe lib is going to be there16:52
davidbarthas long as kde apps can make a dbus call16:52
davidbarththey will work on a gnome desktop16:52
davidbarththere is the question of having a similar indicator for the kde shell16:52
pittiplesae let's not get too technical here, details shold be discussed off-meeting16:53
davidbarthat least i think we can rather safely target supporting kde apps running on a gnome desktop16:53
rickspencer3davidbarth: I'm not so sure16:53
rickspencer3I feel that we need to discuss Kubuntu integration seperately16:54
davidbarthwell, kmail at least, as Jonathan says16:54
seelerickspencer3: i think he means kde application in Ubuntu/GNOME16:54
davidbarthif we have kmail by the feature freeze, i feel we will still have some time to add support for another app16:54
Riddellamarok would be nice, there's plenty of amarok users on gnome16:54
davidbarthie, if the client side code works properly into kmail16:54
davidbarthit should be relatively safe to add that into the choosen IRC client (Quassel)16:55
davidbarthcan we say that by the 19th we try to get the indicator supported in kmail, and if not possible, then we'll have to drop support for kubuntu for the indicator alltogether16:55
davidbarthbut i would really like us to consider both desktop at the same time16:56
Riddellwho would code that?16:56
davidbarthwe're talking about a few tens of lines of code16:56
davidbarthRiddell: you?16:56
* davidbarth is trying16:57
Riddellerk, I have enough to do16:57
davidbarthok, me then16:57
seelewould this replace the systray plasmoid? or be in addition to it?16:58
davidbarthseele: dunno, but we were just talking about the client-side part16:58
asaccan we move on ... libnotify status report?16:58
rickspencer3asac: agreed16:58
davidbarthseele: any suggestion welcomed on the best way to integrate that into the KDE 4 desktop16:58
davidbarthseele: can we see that in a separate thread?16:59
rickspencer3I feel that we need to dig into the Kubuntu and KDE apps running on GNOME issue in a separate meeting16:59
seeledavidbarth: after the meeting perhaps16:59
rickspencer3so - notifications16:59
rickspencer3this seems to be at the heart of the enhanced experience for Jaunty16:59
rickspencer3davidbarth: you say we can expect to try out the new libnotify end of January?17:00
davidbarthrickspencer3: yes, this is the current schedule we have17:01
davidbarthrather, it's the notification daemon17:01
davidbarthexisting apps should work OOB, except for the infamous action buttons17:01
asacwhats the schedule for the app patches? also end of january?17:01
davidbarthso, in terms of integration work, we have 2 main points17:02
davidbarthasac: can be earlier, as should be the case with mozilla in particular17:02
pittiI thought the fallback plan for jaunty was to produce the 'old' notifications for actions, so that we don't have to fix the world in order to deliver this?17:02
asaci am more concerned about NM ;)17:02
davidbarth1. apps that need to add libnotify support: that's Firefox & the other Mozilla platform apps17:03
asacstill we wanted to show how to do it right  i think and prepatch apps in ubuntu/main to be compliant with the new vision17:03
davidbarth2. apps that used actions in the notifications and that should use something else(*)17:03
asac(re pitti that was)17:03
davidbarth(*) something else being a dialog box, or any other UI element that the design team recommends17:03
pittijust drop actions and timeouts17:04
pittidavidbarth: right, or that; having an ugly, but working fallback is great to have for jaunty17:04
davidbarthpitti, the fallback should apply for third party apps mostly, even if it does not make much of a difference from our side...17:05
pittiok, seems we have the plan now17:05
davidbarthso first, mozilla17:06
rickspencer3what specifically is the fallback plan?17:06
davidbarthhere i think we can start using the fine process for requesting a major change17:06
pittirickspencer3: produce a dialog box for notifications with actions, AFAIK17:06
davidbarthknowing that it is a mozilla developers himself that has made the initial work of introducing support for libnotify17:06
asacdavidbarth: yes :)17:06
rickspencer3who should take the action of initiating the major change process with Mozilla?17:07
asaci am doing that17:07
davidbarthasac: cool17:07
rickspencer3asac: you are so awesome17:07
rickspencer3made of awesome17:07
asacdavidbarth: do you have a bugzilla mail address?17:07
asaci think it would be good to include you in the patch tracking bug too17:08
davidbarthmy launchpad address should do, right?17:08
asacdavidbarth: you need to create an account17:08
seb128pitti: hum, we agreed during uds to have actions displayed in the old bubble style in jaunty17:08
asacdavidbarth: just send me the address after the meeting would work17:08
davidbarthah, will do that shortly17:08
rickspencer3let's follow up on the fallback plan after the meeting17:09
rickspencer3we'll be debating all day17:09
rickspencer3sounds ok?17:09
pittiseb128: well, old bubbles, dialogs, whatever17:09
asacok also lets please get a date for when the patches for 2. (from above) get delivered17:09
asacfor apps like NM17:09
asac(after meeting)17:09
seb128pitti: no, dialog was discussed and decided against17:09
rickspencer3moving on17:10
rickspencer3davidbarth: there is a pretty good list of apps that need to be modified in one of your two ways - which are priorities, etc... all of them?17:10
seb128pitti: that's the most annoying thing you can do, open dialog randomly17:10
asacas long as fallback works in a non-annoying fashion, i am happy :)17:11
davidbarthcan we see that after the meeting, and taking specific applications into consideration17:11
davidbarthit's really tricky, and general assumptions can be made in either case17:11
rickspencer3let's close down the Dx integration discussion for now and move on to specs17:11
rickspencer3we need to generate clarity on plans for specific apps outside this meeting, before the next one, I think17:12
rickspencer3davidbarth: can you and I follow up on that later?17:12
davidbarthrickspencer3: sure, maybe during the next call if time permits17:13
rickspencer3let's talk specs17:13
rickspencer3pitti: can you drive this part?17:13
asacACTION: DX team to clarify plans and timeline on app support for jaunty notifications17:13
pittiso, first I'd like to ask you to draft your specs ASAP17:13
rickspencer3pitti: end of week deadline make sense?17:14
asacACTION: asac to initiate major change process for libnotify and get patch on track for upstream inclusion17:14
pittidue to UDS being so late, and back-to-back with holidays, we are way into the cycle already17:14
pittirickspencer3: yes, I think so17:14
pittiI reviewed all the pending ones, kudos to bryce for having his' approved, and to arne for already going through a review cycle with me17:14
asaci cannot come up with implementation details for the network-manager policy spec. that definitly needs extension upstream discussion17:14
pittiright, that touches the next point17:15
asacbut i will write down the arguments made and initiate that discussion17:15
pittiI'd like to go over the specs and discuss what's realistic for jaunty17:15
ArneGoetjeGUI mockups from mpt might take a while, though...17:15
asacNM policy is quite unrealistic ... but i will try to do my best to at least get that going of course ;)17:16
pittibryce: x-testing-infrastructure is already beta-avail, that should be good for jaunty?17:16
brycepitti, thanks; most are already in the midst of implementation :-)17:16
brycepitti: yep, is nearly done17:16
pittiArneGoetje:    font-selector ?17:16
pittido you think it's realistic for Jaunty, and we should put it on the goal list?17:17
pittibtw, goal list: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty17:17
ArneGoetjeprobably not, given that feature freeze is next month already and that this will be pushed to upstream Gnome/KDE17:17
pittiokay, so I'll not mark it17:18
pittiseb128: gdm-upgrade17:18
pittithat's fairly critical, can we package this to universe soon?17:19
pittiI marked it as jaunty goal17:19
pittiif you don't have enough time, please bring it up early, so that we can find help17:19
seb128that shouldn't be too hard17:20
pittiArneGoetje: jaunty-language-selector-improvements ?17:20
seb128pitti: ok will do if required but that should no issue17:20
pittibryce: (I skipped your other two specs, they are already "deployment", and marked for jaunty)17:20
ArneGoetjeI'll try to get al teast some of the items done17:20
pittiseb128: thanks17:20
brycepitti: right, they're both pretty much done, just waiting on bug reports :-)17:21
pittiArneGoetje: if you think that we shold only do some parts in jaunty, please split the spec into two, then we'll track  just one for jaunty17:21
brycepitti: regarding xorg-options-editor, Alberto sent me an initial implementation over the holidays; I've not yet reviewed/uploaded it, but plan to do so this week.17:21
pittiArneGoetje: so I'll keep it on the jaunty list, and we'll see how far we get?17:21
ArneGoetjepersonally, I have the GUI rework on my list for the existing features. For the rest I need to see how much time I have left.17:22
ArneGoetjeyes, I will split it and then we see how far we can go.17:22
pittigpm-and-device-kit-power: that's mine, and ok for jaunty AFAICS; DK and DK-power are in, now waiting for tedg to package the new gpm17:22
pittiArneGoetje: right, making the GUI friendlier sounded like a feasible task, and will help a lot on its own, even without new features17:23
pittiArneGoetje: splitting by UI cleanup and new features sounds sensible17:23
pitti   apport-retracer-maintenance: mine as well, and I deem it very important, since it is a "reward multiplier" kind of thing17:24
tedgpitti: That was one of the reasons I was trying to get core-dev to join the GPM team so I could make that PPA :)17:24
pitti   jaunty-gnome-help-langpacks: no assignee so far, and unclear how to solve it with Rosetta/Launchpad, so I don't mark it for now17:25
pittiasac: jaunty-nm-connection-policies17:25
pittiso you said that's not really jaunty-able?17:25
asac18:14 < asac> i cannot come up with implementation details for the network-manager policy spec. that  definitly needs extension upstream discussion17:25
asac18:15 < asac> but i will write down the arguments made and initiate that discussion17:26
asac18:16 < asac> NM policy is quite unrealistic ... but i will try to do my best to at least get that going of  course ;)17:26
asacso yes ;)17:26
bryceArneGoetje: I'd like to hear more from you regarding xkeyboard-config disposition; perhaps we can agenda it for next meeting?17:26
pittiArneGoetje: ibus-improvement17:26
ArneGoetjebryce: sure, lets discuss this some day during this week.17:27
bryceArneGoetje: ping me when you have some time to chat on it17:27
ArneGoetjepitti: ibus is already in universe and will stay there for jaunty. should be tested first.17:27
pittiArneGoetje: so it's mainly an issue with collecting feedback, and there's no initial development/packaging work to be done?17:28
pittiArneGoetje: so you think we can already definitively say that it isn't something we'd enable in jaunty?17:28
rickspencer3I have to join a call17:29
pittiArneGoetje: (we could alternatively switch to it right now, and switch back before FF if it is too buggy17:29
pittirickspencer3: I'll continue to drive; you'll get the log? or I can send it to you17:29
ArneGoetjepitti: the items which need to be done will be done by upstream (with help by me if I have time for it). Packaging is done for the backend, but not the modules yet.17:29
pittiah, ok17:30
rickspencer3I'll keep watching17:30
ArneGoetjepitti: we definetely need some testing first. Making it default now and see how many bugs come in, would be one way, yes.17:30
pittiArneGoetje: so maybe the assignee of this spec should be changed then?17:30
pittiArneGoetje: ok, let's first get it drafted; we'll continue to discuss it in the status box or via email/IRC17:31
ArneGoetjepitti: ok.17:31
pittiokay, that's it; I walked through the list of specs I'm approver for17:31
pittidid I miss anything?17:31
* tseliot waves17:31
pittiI know that I handed off approvals to some other guys17:31
pittitseliot: hey17:31
Riddellpitti: my specs don't seem to have an approver, what to do?17:32
pittiRiddell: my gut feeling is that you can/should approve them, unless you are drafing them yourself, then I'm happy to review them17:32
pittiRiddell: does that work for you?17:32
pitti(four-eyes principle)17:33
pittibut in general I think you can decide much better what's good and bad for Kubuntu17:33
Riddellpitti: ok17:33
pittiRiddell: can we walk through them quickly?17:33
Riddellcan do, all listed at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuJauntySpecs17:33
Riddellpitti: is this a question? :)17:34
pittior asked the other way around17:34
pittiRiddell: I guess you want all the ones you proposed for jaunty one minute ago approved?17:35
Riddellthat was easy17:35
pittiRiddell: what about kubuntu-jaunty-documentation?17:36
brycetseliot: would you like to give a brief summary of the status on your spec?  (I mentioned it already above, but feel free to add further words.)17:36
Riddellpitti: not written by me17:36
tseliotbryce: sure17:36
Riddellbut should be approved by someone (me?) if it's in a sane state17:36
tseliotbryce: let's begin with Xorg Options Editor:17:37
tseliotstatus: almost complete (apart from some details in the packaging). It needs some testing and maybe some usability improvements.17:37
pittiRiddell: right, please set yourself as approver then17:37
tseliotscreenshots: http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/xkit/xoe2.png and http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/xkit/xoe1.png17:37
pittiRiddell: and kubuntu-jaunty-setup?17:37
Riddellpitti: don't think I can set myself as approver17:38
tseliotbryce: I think it should be ready in time for Jaunty's release17:38
pittiRiddell: ok, let's figure this out after the meeting17:38
Riddellkubuntu-jaunty-setup targeted to jaunty17:38
pittitseliot: ok, so want me to put it on the jaunty goal list?17:38
brycepitti: already is17:39
pittitseliot: what's the blueprint name for this?17:39
tseliotspec: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xorg-options-editor17:39
pittiah, ok17:39
tseliotthere's another spec about Ctrl+Alt+Backspace:17:39
pittibryce: it's in 'review', you are going to review/approve it, or do you want me to?17:39
tseliot(or getting back Ctrl+Alt+Backspace)17:39
brycetseliot: ok thanks, I will do some testing and try making usability suggestions this coming week17:39
brycepitti: sure I can do that17:39
pittitseliot: that sounds like a contradiction to    xorg-ctrl-alt-backspace17:40
tseliotbryce: ok, thanks17:40
tseliotpitti: I was going to introduce the next spec17:40
=== ember_ is now known as ember
pittitseliot: heh, go ahead :)17:40
tseliothere's how we'll deal with the change in X.org in17:40
tseliot* in X/Ubuntu: either Xorg Options Editor or a simple "sudo dontzap --disable" (in the "dontzap" package) can be used17:40
tseliot* in Kubuntu: a patch for system-settings (kdebase-workspace) (in C++ and QT4) which relies on the "dontzap" package which in turn depends on python-xkit (already installed by default in *buntu)17:41
tseliotstatus: complete. I will provide a patch soon. This is definitely ready for Jaunty.17:41
tseliotscreenshot: http://www.albertomilone.com/ubuntu/kde/new_option.png17:41
tseliotNOTE: the screenshot is not updated and capitalisation is correct in the final release (as suggested by seele)17:41
tseliotAs regards the other specs (wacom UI, display configuration UI, bulletproof-x UI), I don't think they can be ready in time for Jaunty's release.17:41
tseliotRiddell: I'll send you a patch for the KDE part soon17:42
pittitseliot: is there a blueprint for the new zap option?17:42
Riddelltseliot: thanks17:42
tseliotpitti: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xorg-ctrl-alt-backspace17:42
pitti(it shouldn't be in the resolution tab)17:43
pittitseliot: ah, silly me, of course17:43
tseliotpitti, Riddell: creating a whole new kcm module would mean more code and more waste of space17:43
pittitseliot: thanks a lot for the headsup17:44
pittieveryone happy with https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty now?17:44
brycepitti: yep17:45
pitti(modulo kubuntu-jaunty-setup, will discuss with Riddell later)17:45
seb128pitti: looks good17:45
ArneGoetjepitti: yep17:45
* tseliot nods17:45
seb128not too many specs so we can fix bugs too ;-)17:45
pittiasac: ok, seems you are off the hook for Jaunty wrt. specs. happy bug fixing! :-)17:45
pitticalc: I guess you'll implicitly have the "tame OO.o 3.0" spec :)17:46
pittiok, one last thing17:46
calcyea jaunty-openoffice17:46
pittihttp://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/pet-buglist.html could use some more flesh17:46
pittilet's create some competition17:47
seb128yeah, I'll add some, there is just lot of things to do after holidays ;-)17:47
pittiso please tag some of your favourite long-standing bugs which you like to work on as "pet-bug"17:47
pittimeeting time -- hm, we need Rick for that as well17:48
pittirickspencer3: do you think your previous call will end up early enough to have the meeting back at 1600 UTC?17:48
pittiArneGoetje: if ^ not, do you think we can have the next meeting at 1630 again, in order to discuss meeting time again? (perhaps move to another day)17:49
seb128and try to not go over an hour? ;-)17:49
pittiyeah, sorry, took long today17:49
ArneGoetjepitti: fine for me... I will probably arrange my working time according to it.17:49
pittiok, AOB?17:50
bryceI like it at 8:30, gives me time for a shower :-)17:50
seb128thanks pitti17:50
pittiok, thanks everyone17:50
asacpitti: thanks. sorry, bailed during the last minutes because of lengthy meeting.17:50
ArneGoetjethanks. (01:50 here... heading to bed)17:51
pittiACTION: everyone to add some pet-bugs by next meeting17:51
pittiArneGoetje: thanks for staying up so long; sleep well!17:51
asacg'night ArneGoetje17:51
ArneGoetjepitti: :)17:51
ArneGoetjenight night...17:51
seb128ok, I've to run but I'll be back after dinner17:52
pittiRiddell: so I went through the jaunty specs and set drafter to you for the ones you drafted (and approver to me)17:55
pittiRiddell: so can you please have a look at kubuntu-jaunty-documentation and propose it for jaunty if you think it's feasible?17:55
Riddellpitti: proposed17:56
pittiRiddell: kubuntu-jaunty-package-manager has no people at all17:56
Riddellpitti: mm, I want to check if tonio wants to lead that but he doesn't have internet for another week17:57
RiddellI can just set it to me for now17:57
pittiRiddell: at least it shoudl have a drafter17:57
pittiah, seems you wrote it?17:57
Riddellset me as assignee and drafter, you as approver17:58
pittikubuntu-jaunty-setup's summary seems ... vague17:58
pittitseliot: you proposed screen-configuration-ui for jaunty; do you think it's realistic, or shall I take it off the list?17:59
Riddellconfiguration settings17:59
pittiRiddell: same thing then? you drafter/assignee, me approver just for peer review?18:00
Riddellpitti: yep, done18:00
pitti... and accepted for jaunty18:01
pittiso https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty should be good now18:01
pittiI'll go through the pending approvals now18:01
pittirickspencer3: for the record, and the team meeting report: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty has all desktop specs for jaunty now, which we agreed on18:02
tseliotpitti: no, I don't think it will be ready in time for Jaunty18:03
pittitseliot: ok, declined18:03
pittitseliot: I declined wacom as well then18:06
tseliotpitti: well donw18:06
pittiok, I processed all the desktop-ish proposed goals as well now18:06
pittitseliot: "well done" clicking a button? :-)18:07
tseliotpitti: yep :-P18:08
rickspencer3pitti: Thanks. Still on this call. Will review in 30 minutes or so18:10
pittirickspencer3: I'm off to dinner, talk to you then18:11
calcit looks like Sun is happy to work with me on the language split :)18:23
calcthey are nailing down who i would need to work with atm18:24
pitticalc: language split?18:38
calcpitti: for the OOo source split build to work effectively the language support files need to be split out of basically everything into their own directory (so can be split into another source)18:40
calcpitti: i worked a bit on trying to make it separately buildable for intrepid but it was unworkable without upstream support and so i talked to Sun directly about it and they seem to be happy to have me help them do the work in their tree directly :)18:41
calcpitti: so after the sprint i will be in hamburg for a week working with them on the split18:41
calcpitti: or at least it seems to be so far, still have to hear back final word from them, hopefully tomorrow18:42
pitticalc: ah, awesome18:42
pittithat will indeed help a lot18:42
calcnovell has been doing a lot of work on the split build but the language part was essentially impossible to do except in sun's tree directly so they did some really ugly stuff to make it work for suse18:42
calcso this should help a lot, yes18:43
calci think the sun/novell relationship was too strained to try to do what i am going to be doing themselves (novell)18:43
rickspencer3pitti: I'm back18:45
rickspencer3I'll pull out all the action items, etc... and we can talk tomorrow18:46
pittirickspencer3: do you have the backlog, for creating the report?18:46
rickspencer3yeah, I just saved off all the text, if that's what you mean18:47
calcrickspencer3: as i mentioned to pitti above, i should know by tomorrow about going to hamburg, it looks good so far, asked about hotels today, need to book flight, etc still18:47
rickspencer3calc: sounds great18:47
rickspencer3unfortunately, I don't know what I should be doing to support you on that18:47
rickspencer3do you need me to just ok something?18:47
rickspencer3calc: also, is there a blueprint for the language split?18:48
calcrickspencer3: yea when i contact about hotel stay someone may contact you to verify i guess18:48
calcrickspencer3: i don't think there is a separate blueprint for it, but i can make one, it would be implemented in jaunty+1 i assume, will have to work out the details with sun as to when it would actually land18:49
calcrickspencer3: 3.1 (jaunty+1) is pretty close to done now but they might be able to get it moved for it, not really sure18:50
calcor else i could potentially move stuff around once i get it working as a backport for jaunty+1 in any case18:50
rickspencer3calc: I *think* a blueprint would be appropriate, but I trust you guys to educate me about what is the right way to capture the intent. In any case, I feel the split is a substantial and also seperable unit of work, so it would be good to document the intent18:50
calcbackport upstream code to actual jaunty+1 (as opposed to an 'ubuntu backport')18:51
calcok will do18:51
rickspencer3I need to take a break (been in meetings for the last four hours!18:51
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