[06:11] <sainath_> i have a few doubts on libwnck
[06:12] <sainath_> some functions are defined in private.h file. But this file is in source code .But when installed we can't find it in /usr/include/libwnck/
[06:13] <sainath_> how can i use functions declared in private.h
[07:40] <pitti> Good morning
[07:44] <didrocks> morning pitti :)
[07:53] <pitti> hey didrocks
[08:36] <crevette> hey seb128
[08:37] <seb128> lut crevette
[08:40] <seb128> hey mvo
[08:40] <seb128> crevette: I'm looking to your gedit update
[08:41] <mvo> hey seb128!
[08:41] <seb128> crevette: no need to send the upstream tarball on launchpad btw you can just give the GNOME url
[08:42] <didrocks> hi seb128, mvo & crevette
[08:42] <seb128> lut didrocks
[08:43] <crevette> seb128, okay
[08:46] <seb128> crevette: +GEDIT_PLUGINS_DATA_DIR="$datadir/gedit-2/plugins"
[08:47] <seb128> crevette: that might be a different directory, did you try to build it locally?
[08:47] <crevette> no
[08:48] <crevette> I should create a pbuilder on my machine
[08:48] <seb128> why not building it directly on your machine?
[08:51] <seb128> crevette: the .ui are in the the share directory and not lib now
[08:51] <crevette> I think my laptop is not very convenient for building, and even if I built it on my machine I didn't had found the issue.
[08:51] <crevette> but I will setup a pbuilder
[08:52] <crevette> seb128, when I build on  my laptop on can keep the build directory ?
[08:52] <crevette> s/on/how/
[08:52] <seb128> crevette: using pbuilder you mean?
[08:52] <crevette> yep
[08:52] <crevette> if you know it, else I'll find
[08:53] <seb128> crevette: try to pbuilder login and build there
[08:53] <seb128> rather than using pbuilder build
[08:54]  * crevette would have to have a build machine :)
[09:00] <seb128> crevette: just remove the *.ui line in gedit.install, they get installed in gedit-common anyway now and it builds correctly
[09:20] <huats> morning everyone
[09:21] <didrocks> morning huats o/
[09:23] <seb128> lut huats
[09:23] <huats> hello seb128
[09:23] <seb128> didrocks: btw did you do any of those updates yesterday?
[09:23] <seb128> huats: new gcalctool and gnome-keyring waiting for you ;-)
[09:24] <huats> seb128: gcacltool already build locally
[09:24] <seb128> ok, I was guessing you would already known
[09:24] <huats> I am about to test it (even if it is just a translation update)
[09:24] <huats> :)
[09:24] <seb128> you seem to notice new tarballs quickly nowadays ;-)
[09:24] <huats> lol
[09:25] <seb128> huats: and the libunique thing is still on your list? nautilus depwait on it ;-)
[09:25] <huats> let's say that I am subscribe to the gnome-ftp list AND the gcalctool upstream send me an email just before any new release
[09:25] <huats> seb128: I have started it a bit (the libunique stuff)
[09:25] <huats> I will work on it today
[09:25] <seb128> huats: there is no so much to do, just copy the template, most things are not revelant there since that's only a lib
[09:26] <seb128> huats: that"s basically giving some clues about the softwares, how it's maintained upstream and in debian, etc
[09:26] <huats> seb128: yep that is my opinion too
[09:27] <seb128> the actual review will be done by the mir team, the paper work is just to make their job a bit easier and to have record of the review, etc
[09:27] <huats> sure
[09:27] <huats> to give them the pointer where to look :)
[09:31] <didrocks> seb128: merging with mvo g-c-c (using bzr ;))
[09:31] <seb128> didrocks: cool
[09:31] <didrocks> seb128: there was one remaining thing and I think mvo catch up what was going wrong (thanks again)
[09:32] <seb128> didrocks: did you find that easy?
[09:32] <didrocks> seb128: will do totem this evening
[09:32] <seb128> ok
[09:37] <huats> seb128: btw I have found (not really search) for gcalctool in bzr, is it normal ?
[09:37] <seb128> what?
[09:37] <huats> I mean the gcalctool packaging is already done in bzr or not ?
[09:37] <didrocks> seb128: (sorry, I was backlogging). yes, time-consuming at the beginning to find right documentation, but it's easy :)
[09:37] <huats> (since it is one of the goal of jaunty I guessed)
[09:38] <seb128> didrocks: we should do better on the documentation side then
[09:38] <seb128> huats: not if you didn't put it there
[09:38] <huats> ok
[09:38] <seb128> huats: only mvo does that around and I don't think he touched gcalctool
[09:38] <huats> I might give that a look a bit later :)
[09:38] <huats> (I mean with mvo :))
[09:39] <didrocks> seb128: yes, I used jamesw's documentation but some parts are deprecated
[09:40] <seb128> what url? and what needs to be updated?
[09:40] <didrocks> I seek for it again (I am at work right now) :)
[09:40] <huats> thanks didrocks for updating the docummentation :)
[09:40] <didrocks> http://jameswestby.net/bzr/builddeb/user_manual
[09:40] <huats> didrocks: you call that a work ?
[09:40] <huats> ;)
[09:41] <didrocks> huats: it's not me who update packages at work :p
[09:41] <seb128> 2009 is still a trolling year between didrocks and huats ;-)
[09:41] <didrocks> :)
[09:41] <huats> seb128: for sure :)
[09:42] <didrocks> seb128: James is aware about that, some pages are blank one : http://jameswestby.net/bzr/builddeb/user_manual/building.html and --dirstate-trees should not be used in http://jameswestby.net/bzr/builddeb/user_manual/merge.html
[09:42] <seb128> didrocks: ok, if he's aware about those that's good
[09:42] <seb128> we should have an easy wiki page for the desktop team though
[09:42] <didrocks> I think that's a good goal
[09:42] <seb128> something describing the few commands to run to get things started
[09:43] <seb128> and the few commands to use to work on something already in bzr
[09:43] <didrocks> I will try to find some time within this week-end for that and update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bzr
[09:44] <didrocks> s/within/during
[09:44] <didrocks> seb128: so, if you have other packages requiring bzr it can help me to practice more before updating this :)
[09:45] <seb128> didrocks: cool!
[09:45] <seb128> didrocks: let me know when you want to no extra updates, or you can put totem in bzr if you want
[09:46] <mvo> huats: if you want to play with bzr-builddeb and have questions I'm happy to help - what we finally get with all the debian imports and upstream imports will probably feel a little bit different than how we use bzr right now though
[09:46] <huats> I am finishing a few stuffs (I think today and tomorrow)
[09:47] <huats> and after that I'll be happy to do that :)
[09:47] <didrocks> seb128: I will try to put totem in bzr so :)
[09:47] <seb128> that will make mvo happy ;-)
[09:48]  * didrocks likes to make mvo happy ;)
[09:48] <seb128> and has a side effect that I can dump work on mvo claiming it's a bzr thing that I don't understand ;-)
[09:48]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[09:48] <mvo> haha
[09:48] <didrocks> hehe :-)
[09:48]  * mvo slaps seb128
[09:48] <mvo> (just very slightly)
[09:48] <seb128> ;-)
[09:48] <crevette> if someone has time tonight to drive me for bzr, I'd be happy
[09:49] <seb128> crevette: just ask on the chan when you have a question
[09:49] <crevette> yeah, it is just there is not a lot of people after 10:00 pm, everybody is sleeping :)
[09:49] <didrocks> I will note questions to see where some precision are needed for the wiki
[09:50] <didrocks> and it will be so well described that seb128 will be abled to do it, saving mvo's time :)
[09:50] <seb128> heh
[09:50] <mvo> one thing worth noting in the wiki is that downloading the tarball manually and putting it in place is not needed if debain/watch is available
[09:50] <mvo> bzr-builddeb will just DTRT and use the changelog and watch file to get it
[09:50] <seb128> crevette: not really, there was less people during holidays but you should find people around now
[09:51] <mvo> so in the simplest case (that never happens ;) its just adding new changelog, bzr-builddeb; upload
[09:51] <didrocks> mvo: I will give a look at that, as I downloaded the tarball it yesterday
[09:52] <didrocks> mvo: bzr-builddeb can call pbuilder ? I used "bzr bd --builder pdebuild"
[09:52] <mvo> I think so, also I have not used it like this yet
[09:53] <didrocks> I will give it a try
[09:54] <mvo> cool, keep me updated!
[09:56] <seb128> didrocks: you are using pbuilder every time? is that because you don't run jaunty yet?
[09:56] <seb128> just curious
[09:57] <mvo> seb128: the biggest obstacle with the g-c-c update is the xrandr patches, PITA really
[09:57] <pitti> patching glade?
[09:57] <seb128> mvo: that, and the appareance capplet and the proxy one too
[09:57] <seb128> yeah for changing half of the glade files there
[09:57] <mvo> pitti: in this case changes in the way they use xrandr
[09:58] <seb128> oh, makes me think I need to ping tseliot about that
[09:58] <mvo> seb128: last time I did the update that was not *too* bad, I started writing a small python script that can help with the patching (very prototypish currently)
[09:58] <didrocks> seb128: I only run jaunty in a virtualbox for testing
[09:58] <mvo> seb128: I think didrocks fixed most of it
[09:58] <seb128> ok
[09:59] <didrocks> seb128: I like the pbuilder hook to test updates, etc. :)
[09:59] <mvo> (and I'm finishing up some small issues that came up during the test-build now)
[10:00] <seb128> crevette: btw did you read my gedit comment before?
[10:09] <didrocks> seb128: tseliot told me yesterday that this change must be kept
[10:09] <seb128> didrocks: this change must be pushed upstream rather
[10:09] <didrocks> seb128: and upstream delibaretly put some comments to allow the contrary :)
[10:09] <didrocks> deliberatly*
[10:10] <seb128> what?
[10:10] <seb128> upstream doesn't want the change?
[10:10] <didrocks> seb128: upstream makes possible to create a framebuffer size greater than the card can handle
[10:10] <seb128> why?
[10:10] <didrocks> tseliot patch prevent from that
[10:11] <didrocks> I don't know why, let me show you
[10:11] <didrocks> (one sec)
[10:11] <seb128> didrocks: I know what the patch do
[10:11] <seb128> didrocks: I'm just wondering if there is a discussion to get the ubuntu changes upstream now
[10:11] <didrocks> seb128: no, no discussion, just added commentaries in the code that say "we allow..."
[10:12] <seb128> ah ok, sucks
[10:12] <didrocks> for sure :/
[10:12] <mvo> didrocks: builds and works for me now
[10:13] <didrocks> mvo: thanks for polishing it \o/
[10:13] <mvo> thanks for doing it :)
[10:13] <seb128> yeah!
[10:16] <crevette> seb128, which one ?
[10:18] <mvo> didrocks: I upload once you had a chance to test it
[10:18] <didrocks> mvo: I will keep you in touch, probably this evening
[10:18]  * mvo nods
[10:19] <seb128_> grrrr
[10:20] <seb128_> I hate when the system freeze and you can't do anything out of pressing the power button and restart
[10:20] <mvo> ?
[10:20] <mvo> intrepid?
[10:20] <didrocks> seb128: I think we all hate this :)
[10:20] <seb128> no, jaunty
[10:20] <seb128> I just dist-upgraded my laptop totally yesterday evening
[10:20] <seb128> let's see if that was a coincidence
[10:20] <crevette> I had several frezzes with jaunty too
[10:21] <mvo> work ok on my amd64 so far
[10:21] <seb128> mvo: your freezes at uds, you were running intrepid on your laptop still right?
[10:22] <mvo> yes
[10:26] <didrocks> I freezed a lot in intrepid, but it was because one fan was dirty and didn't rotate anymore...
[10:26] <didrocks> (and yeah, I was first blaming intrepid wifi handling ;))
[10:37] <pitti> seb128: hm, what's the MIR you were waiting for? I didn't get mail about it, nor see it on the list; is ubuntu-mir sub'ed?
[10:37] <seb128> pitti: huats is working on it, I did do the upload before having the paper work done
[10:37] <seb128> huats: how is that going btw? ;-)
[10:37] <huats> pitti: it will be done this afternoon
[10:38] <pitti> ah, ok
[10:38] <pitti> I just thought I was missing something
[10:38]  * pitti hugs huats, thanks
[10:38] <pitti> what package is it?
[10:38] <seb128> pitti: the package is libunique if you want to look at the code already
[10:38] <huats> yeah pitti another mail you are waiting from me, that has not been sent yet :)
[10:38] <seb128> huats: try to do the mir before the sru
[10:39] <pitti> Size: 21896
[10:39] <huats> seb128: too late :(
[10:39] <pitti> huats: that seems pretty trivial; just file a MIR bug with the most important stuff, if it's a trivial library
[10:39] <huats> seb128: the SRU has just been done
[10:39] <pitti> and don't waste time on a complete wiki page
[10:39] <huats> pitti: yep
[10:39] <huats> pitti: ok
[10:39] <seb128> huats: if you did the sru that's fine, but better to not block jaunty to get a sru done before ;-)
[10:39] <huats> seb128: sure
[10:40] <huats> pitti: I have started the wiki page already
[10:40] <huats> so it won't be long...
[11:25] <cjwatson> Does anyone mind if I upload gdm shortly? I'm keeping its init script in sync with some usplash fixes I'm making to take account of recent changes in sysv-rc
[11:29] <pitti> fine for me; seb128 ^ ?
[11:34] <cjwatson> I've fixed usplash leaving tty1 in a broken state on startup
[11:34] <cjwatson> which was annoying me since X has been flaky of late
[11:37] <seb128> cjwatson: there is nobody working on gdm currently so feel free to upload your change
[11:40] <cjwatson> great, thanks
[11:56] <pitti> seb128: I like to file an upstream bug against the GTK print dialog; which component is that?
[11:57] <seb128> pitti: gtk+ gtkprint
[11:57] <pitti> ah, merci
[11:57] <seb128> ups
[11:57] <seb128> gtk+ printing rather
[13:43] <slomo> mvo: committed your latest patch, thanks again :)
[13:48] <mvo> slomo: thanks!
[14:22] <vuntz> fwiw, http://patches.ubuntu.com/by-release/extracted/ubuntu/g/gnome-desktop/1:2.25.3-0ubuntu1/100_load_desired_settings.patch has a crasher
[14:22] <vuntz> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=565785
[14:46] <slomo> seb128: could you sync gnonlin, gtask, gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg, gst-plugins-ugly0.10, gst-plugins-bad0.10 from debian/experimental ? :)
[14:49] <seb128> slomo: ok
[14:52] <slomo> thanks :)
[15:01]  * mvo hugs slomo
[15:01] <mvo> hrm, too late
[16:17] <didrocks> bzr-buildpackage is a shell script that call bzr builddeb, so I can use my pbuilder script :)
[16:28] <asac> hi!
[16:28]  * ArneGoetje yawns
[16:29] <calc> hi
[16:29] <rickspencer3> hi desktoppers
[16:29] <pitti> hey
[16:29] <ArneGoetje> hi
[16:29] <Riddell> hi
[16:29] <pitti> happy new year everyone! I hope everyone's holidays were as nice as mine
[16:29] <pitti> seb128: here?
[16:30] <seb128> hello
[16:30] <calc> looks like we are missing bryce?
[16:30] <pitti> I /msg'ed him
[16:30] <pitti> can some USian give him a ring?
[16:31] <seb128> could somebody copy me the list of syncs slomo asked for on the chan before?
[16:31] <rickspencer3> this is my first time chairing the desktop team meeting, so please be patient :)
[16:31] <calc> i can give him a call
[16:31] <seb128> I didn't note those and closed IRC since
[16:31] <pitti> seb128: I'll /msg you
[16:31] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[16:31] <rickspencer3> seb128: could you sync gnonlin, gtask, gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg, gst-plugins-ugly0.10, gst-plugins-bad0.10 from debian/experimental
[16:31] <seb128> rickspencer3: thanks
[16:31] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-01-06
[16:31] <rickspencer3> is anyone from the Dx team here?
[16:31] <Tm_T> hi sir Riddell and kids
[16:32] <pitti> tedg?
[16:32] <tedg> rickspencer3: Hello
[16:32] <asac> my "plan for next two weeks" was removed ;)
[16:32] <calc> no one answered at his house
[16:32] <tedg> Getting more coffee so that I could be patient :)
[16:32] <rickspencer3> asac: I'll add it back in
[16:33] <rickspencer3> copy and past error I am sure
[16:33] <asac> not sure ... do we want them in or not?
[16:33] <asac> ah ok
[16:33] <rickspencer3> I did it at 6:00am my time, so probably was a little groggy :)
[16:33] <pitti> rickspencer3: enumeration in calc's wiki section is broken; perhaps you forgot the space in front of the '*'?
[16:34] <rickspencer3> pitti: prolly - I'll fix it up after the meeting
[16:34]  * Tm_T huggggles seele 
[16:34] <pitti> anyway, let's get started, until ArneGoetje falls asleep :)
[16:34] <calc> oops, sorry about forgetting to format my email that way :\
[16:34] <seele> Tm_T: hihi
[16:34] <pitti> let's defer specs until bryce arrives and start with DX integration?
[16:34] <rickspencer3> desktop team meeting starting
[16:34] <bryce> morning
[16:34]  * pitti hugs bryce, happy new year
[16:34] <calc> bryce: good morning, just left a message on your phone :)
[16:34] <rickspencer3> first, dbarth is joining for desktop integration
[16:35] <davidbarth> thats davidbarth, the full version of it on freenode;) hi all
[16:35] <asac> hi
[16:35] <rickspencer3> lol
[16:35] <ArneGoetje> hi
[16:35] <rickspencer3> there is a list on the internal wiki of components that the Dx team is going to touch - has anyone gotten a chance to look at it?
[16:36] <Tm_T> davidbarth: we don't like having trial versions anyway
[16:36] <Riddell> rickspencer3: I've looked at it, some of the KDE bits seem wrong
[16:36] <davidbarth> Tm_T: :-D
[16:36] <Riddell> kwin has nothing to do with brightness
[16:36] <asac> does this need to stay internal now that actual work is supposed to start?
[16:36] <rickspencer3> asac: I don't know, probably should be public
[16:37] <rickspencer3> thoughts ... should it be moved to wiki.ubuntu?
[16:37] <davidbarth> i'm fine with that being moved to the normal wiki.ubuntu.com namespace
[16:37] <rickspencer3> okay, I'll do that today
[16:37] <davidbarth> but before that i'd like to modify some planned supprot for applications
[16:38] <davidbarth> ie, i don't want to give false expectations about what we can do for 9.04
[16:38] <rickspencer3> Can you tell us what we should plan for in 9.04?
[16:38] <asac> what page is it? (i think i looked at something but that was before holiday and so on ...)
[16:38] <davidbarth> for example, for the messaging indicator, we only plan to focus on the default ubuntu apps, ie evolution + pidgin, but not the other ones
[16:39] <pitti> makes sense, given our heavily limited time in jaunty
[16:39] <pitti> and unlike the notifications, it's not a "all or nothing" thing
[16:39] <davidbarth> that is, we welcome contributions to add patches for other apps, but ted will not be able to patch them all by himself
[16:39] <davidbarth> tedg: or do you? ;)
[16:39] <asac> when will we see the "backend" side land in jaunty? and when are the patches for apps supposed to be ready. is there any timeline yet?
[16:40] <tedg> Heh, any application anywhere.  I'll patch it. ;)  I'm only comfortable committing to those two, but I'd like to do more if we can fit them in the schedule.
[16:41] <davidbarth> for libnotify tedg should be able to have the library side + a client-side testing app by the end of January
[16:41] <tedg> libindicate?
[16:41] <pitti> library side for notify? it thought we would use the existing one?
[16:42] <pitti> or do you mean "d-bus backend"?
[16:42] <rickspencer3> can we separate the indicator versus notification discussion for a moment?
[16:42] <davidbarth> yes
[16:43] <rickspencer3> Looks like we started with indicators, and I think Dx is saying that they can only do evolution and pidgin in the new indicator, is that correct?
[16:43] <davidbarth> so if we're talking about the indicator (messaging indicator), then the planned support is limited to evolution and pidgin so far
[16:43] <rickspencer3> heh
[16:43] <davidbarth> again, something we can commit to, with only internal resources
[16:43] <rickspencer3> that implies that the new indicator itself will be delivered as well
[16:43] <rickspencer3> when is the new indicator scheduled to land?
[16:43] <davidbarth> we'll be happy to prove ourselves wrong by having more for 9.04
[16:44] <asac> will you provide a tutorial or intro on how to migrate apps? would probably help to get external contributions
[16:44] <tedg> asac: Yes, we'll have some documentation.  Probably not terribly complete for feature freeze, but in progress.
[16:44] <seele> what does ubuntu use for IRC?  is there no message queue/indicator for it?
[16:45] <davidbarth> asac: tedg may comment better, but the code for the test app will provide some good copy/paste resource
[16:45] <tedg> I'm not counting on a bunch of apps for jaunty simply because we're so late.
[16:45] <rickspencer3> seele: pidgin is the default irc app
[16:45] <davidbarth> + the doc ted can provide additionaly
[16:45] <bryce> tedg: for contributions, it'd really be preferable to have it up well before ff
[16:45] <pitti> seele: default program is pidgin
[16:45] <asac> tedg: nod
[16:45] <pitti> seele: but of course there are dozens of clients
[16:45] <seele> rickspencer3: pitti: ah, thanks
[16:46] <tedg> I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who just sent messages aren't running Pidgin though :)
[16:46] <rickspencer3> so sounds like: indicator to land in late January, Pidgin and evolution to work with new indicator, documentation for anyone who wants to integrate new apps late in Januty cycle
[16:46] <davidbarth> now jonathan not being in my team i can't comment, but I'd love to have konversation support, even if kmail is more of priority, feature-wise
[16:47] <Tm_T> davidbarth: Konversation? I don't think Kubuntu will use that in 9.04
[16:47] <Tm_T> davidbarth: IIRC we are moving to Quassel
[16:47] <rickspencer3> can we move on to discussing KDE, because Riddell is on the hook for those apps
[16:47] <davidbarth> Tm_T: Quassel, oh good to know
[16:47] <seele> davidbarth: we are looking at a different irc client for Jaunty.  kde4libs only and konversation hasnt been ported yet
[16:47] <pitti> tedg: the more contributed patches you'll receive :)
[16:48] <seele> Tm_T: the decision on quassel hasnt been made until after they follow through on the UI changes we requested
[16:48] <rickspencer3> Riddell: what is your understand of integrating the indicator into Kubuntu?
[16:48] <davidbarth> seele: too bad, i love my konversation; anyway is Quassel a definitive choice for 9.04?
[16:48] <Tm_T> seele: I see, anyway, no Konversation atm
[16:48] <tedg> davidbarth: I doubt we'll get much buy in from the KDE apps until we can make a KDE panel version of the indicator.  How's hiring the KDE guy going? ;)
[16:49] <Riddell> rickspencer3: I understand someone will get hired one day and modify the knotify and plasmoid indicator stuff to work with it
[16:49] <apachelogger> davidbarth: not yet, there are still some quirks upstream needs to resolve to make it fit our needs
[16:49] <davidbarth> tedg: mostly done, but then we have to cope with his notification period, which means no real help before the feature freeze :-(
[16:49] <seele> davidbarth: not yet but it looks likely.  they are including kde4 integration and some workflow changes in the next version which will greatly improve it (i hope)
[16:49] <tedg> davidbarth: \o/
[16:49] <rickspencer3> so are we saying that the new indicator is not in Kubuntu Jaunty?
[16:50] <tedg> rickspencer3: correct.
[16:50] <rickspencer3> can we move on to the notifications?
[16:50] <davidbarth> err, wait, sure?
[16:50] <davidbarth> taking the list of kde apps
[16:51] <davidbarth> listed on the wiki page: kmail, kopete, konversation, amarok,
[16:51] <seele> akregator
[16:51] <davidbarth> so konversation is out,
[16:51] <Riddell> it really needs a design person to look at how the current spec should integrate sanely with KDE too
[16:51] <davidbarth> Riddell: right
[16:51] <Riddell> konversation out until it's ported to KDE 4 at least
[16:52] <davidbarth> kmail?
[16:52] <rickspencer3> davidbarth: are you going to create the indicator for KDE during Jaunty?
[16:52] <Riddell> kmail sure
[16:52] <davidbarth> the lib is going to be there
[16:52] <davidbarth> as long as kde apps can make a dbus call
[16:52] <davidbarth> they will work on a gnome desktop
[16:52] <davidbarth> then
[16:52] <davidbarth> there is the question of having a similar indicator for the kde shell
[16:53] <pitti> plesae let's not get too technical here, details shold be discussed off-meeting
[16:53] <davidbarth> at least i think we can rather safely target supporting kde apps running on a gnome desktop
[16:53] <rickspencer3> davidbarth: I'm not so sure
[16:54] <rickspencer3> I feel that we need to discuss Kubuntu integration seperately
[16:54] <davidbarth> well, kmail at least, as Jonathan says
[16:54] <seele> rickspencer3: i think he means kde application in Ubuntu/GNOME
[16:54] <rickspencer3> ah
[16:54] <davidbarth> if we have kmail by the feature freeze, i feel we will still have some time to add support for another app
[16:54] <Riddell> amarok would be nice, there's plenty of amarok users on gnome
[16:54] <davidbarth> ie, if the client side code works properly into kmail
[16:55] <davidbarth> it should be relatively safe to add that into the choosen IRC client (Quassel)
[16:55] <davidbarth> can we say that by the 19th we try to get the indicator supported in kmail, and if not possible, then we'll have to drop support for kubuntu for the indicator alltogether
[16:56] <davidbarth> but i would really like us to consider both desktop at the same time
[16:56] <Riddell> who would code that?
[16:56] <davidbarth> we're talking about a few tens of lines of code
[16:56] <davidbarth> Riddell: you?
[16:57]  * davidbarth is trying
[16:57] <Riddell> erk, I have enough to do
[16:57] <davidbarth> me?
[16:57] <davidbarth> ok, me then
[16:58] <seele> would this replace the systray plasmoid? or be in addition to it?
[16:58] <davidbarth> seele: dunno, but we were just talking about the client-side part
[16:58] <asac> can we move on ... libnotify status report?
[16:58] <rickspencer3> asac: agreed
[16:58] <davidbarth> seele: any suggestion welcomed on the best way to integrate that into the KDE 4 desktop
[16:59] <davidbarth> seele: can we see that in a separate thread?
[16:59] <davidbarth> right
[16:59] <rickspencer3> I feel that we need to dig into the Kubuntu and KDE apps running on GNOME issue in a separate meeting
[16:59] <seele> davidbarth: after the meeting perhaps
[16:59] <rickspencer3> so - notifications
[16:59] <rickspencer3> this seems to be at the heart of the enhanced experience for Jaunty
[17:00] <rickspencer3> davidbarth: you say we can expect to try out the new libnotify end of January?
[17:01] <davidbarth> rickspencer3: yes, this is the current schedule we have
[17:01] <davidbarth> rather, it's the notification daemon
[17:01] <rickspencer3> right
[17:01] <davidbarth> existing apps should work OOB, except for the infamous action buttons
[17:01] <asac> whats the schedule for the app patches? also end of january?
[17:02] <davidbarth> so, in terms of integration work, we have 2 main points
[17:02] <davidbarth> asac: can be earlier, as should be the case with mozilla in particular
[17:02] <pitti> I thought the fallback plan for jaunty was to produce the 'old' notifications for actions, so that we don't have to fix the world in order to deliver this?
[17:02] <asac> i am more concerned about NM ;)
[17:03] <davidbarth> 1. apps that need to add libnotify support: that's Firefox & the other Mozilla platform apps
[17:03] <asac> still we wanted to show how to do it right  i think and prepatch apps in ubuntu/main to be compliant with the new vision
[17:03] <davidbarth> 2. apps that used actions in the notifications and that should use something else(*)
[17:03] <asac> (re pitti that was)
[17:03] <davidbarth> (*) something else being a dialog box, or any other UI element that the design team recommends
[17:04] <pitti> just drop actions and timeouts
[17:04] <pitti> davidbarth: right, or that; having an ugly, but working fallback is great to have for jaunty
[17:05] <davidbarth> pitti, the fallback should apply for third party apps mostly, even if it does not make much of a difference from our side...
[17:05] <pitti> ok, seems we have the plan now
[17:06] <davidbarth> so first, mozilla
[17:06] <rickspencer3> what specifically is the fallback plan?
[17:06] <davidbarth> here i think we can start using the fine process for requesting a major change
[17:06] <pitti> rickspencer3: produce a dialog box for notifications with actions, AFAIK
[17:06] <davidbarth> knowing that it is a mozilla developers himself that has made the initial work of introducing support for libnotify
[17:06] <asac> davidbarth: yes :)
[17:07] <rickspencer3> who should take the action of initiating the major change process with Mozilla?
[17:07] <asac> i am doing that
[17:07] <davidbarth> asac: cool
[17:07] <rickspencer3> asac: you are so awesome
[17:07] <rickspencer3> made of awesome
[17:07] <asac> davidbarth: do you have a bugzilla mail address?
[17:08] <asac> i think it would be good to include you in the patch tracking bug too
[17:08] <davidbarth> my launchpad address should do, right?
[17:08] <asac> davidbarth: you need to create an account
[17:08] <asac> bugzilla.mozilla.org
[17:08] <seb128> pitti: hum, we agreed during uds to have actions displayed in the old bubble style in jaunty
[17:08] <asac> davidbarth: just send me the address after the meeting would work
[17:08] <davidbarth> ah, will do that shortly
[17:09] <rickspencer3> let's follow up on the fallback plan after the meeting
[17:09] <rickspencer3> we'll be debating all day
[17:09] <rickspencer3> sounds ok?
[17:09] <pitti> seb128: well, old bubbles, dialogs, whatever
[17:09] <asac> ok also lets please get a date for when the patches for 2. (from above) get delivered
[17:09] <asac> for apps like NM
[17:09] <asac> (after meeting)
[17:09] <davidbarth> ok
[17:09] <seb128> pitti: no, dialog was discussed and decided against
[17:10] <rickspencer3> moving on
[17:10] <rickspencer3> davidbarth: there is a pretty good list of apps that need to be modified in one of your two ways - which are priorities, etc... all of them?
[17:10] <seb128> pitti: that's the most annoying thing you can do, open dialog randomly
[17:10] <pitti> agreed
[17:11] <asac> as long as fallback works in a non-annoying fashion, i am happy :)
[17:11] <davidbarth> can we see that after the meeting, and taking specific applications into consideration
[17:11] <rickspencer3> yes
[17:11] <asac> yes
[17:11] <davidbarth> it's really tricky, and general assumptions can be made in either case
[17:11] <rickspencer3> let's close down the Dx integration discussion for now and move on to specs
[17:11] <davidbarth> ok
[17:12] <rickspencer3> we need to generate clarity on plans for specific apps outside this meeting, before the next one, I think
[17:12] <davidbarth> agreed
[17:12] <rickspencer3> davidbarth: can you and I follow up on that later?
[17:13] <davidbarth> rickspencer3: sure, maybe during the next call if time permits
[17:13] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:13] <rickspencer3> let's talk specs
[17:13] <pitti> yay
[17:13] <rickspencer3> pitti: can you drive this part?
[17:13] <asac> ACTION: DX team to clarify plans and timeline on app support for jaunty notifications
[17:13] <pitti> yep
[17:13] <asac> :)
[17:13] <pitti> so, first I'd like to ask you to draft your specs ASAP
[17:14] <rickspencer3> pitti: end of week deadline make sense?
[17:14] <asac> ACTION: asac to initiate major change process for libnotify and get patch on track for upstream inclusion
[17:14] <pitti> due to UDS being so late, and back-to-back with holidays, we are way into the cycle already
[17:14] <pitti> rickspencer3: yes, I think so
[17:14] <pitti> I reviewed all the pending ones, kudos to bryce for having his' approved, and to arne for already going through a review cycle with me
[17:14] <asac> i cannot come up with implementation details for the network-manager policy spec. that definitly needs extension upstream discussion
[17:15] <pitti> right, that touches the next point
[17:15] <asac> but i will write down the arguments made and initiate that discussion
[17:15] <pitti> I'd like to go over the specs and discuss what's realistic for jaunty
[17:15] <ArneGoetje> GUI mockups from mpt might take a while, though...
[17:16] <asac> NM policy is quite unrealistic ... but i will try to do my best to at least get that going of course ;)
[17:16] <pitti> bryce: x-testing-infrastructure is already beta-avail, that should be good for jaunty?
[17:16] <bryce> pitti, thanks; most are already in the midst of implementation :-)
[17:16] <bryce> pitti: yep, is nearly done
[17:16] <pitti> ArneGoetje:    font-selector ?
[17:17] <pitti> do you think it's realistic for Jaunty, and we should put it on the goal list?
[17:17] <pitti> btw, goal list: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty
[17:17] <ArneGoetje> probably not, given that feature freeze is next month already and that this will be pushed to upstream Gnome/KDE
[17:18] <pitti> okay, so I'll not mark it
[17:18] <ArneGoetje> yes
[17:18] <pitti> seb128: gdm-upgrade
[17:19] <pitti> that's fairly critical, can we package this to universe soon?
[17:19] <pitti> I marked it as jaunty goal
[17:19] <seb128> ok
[17:19] <pitti> if you don't have enough time, please bring it up early, so that we can find help
[17:20] <seb128> that shouldn't be too hard
[17:20] <pitti> ArneGoetje: jaunty-language-selector-improvements ?
[17:20] <seb128> pitti: ok will do if required but that should no issue
[17:20] <pitti> bryce: (I skipped your other two specs, they are already "deployment", and marked for jaunty)
[17:20] <ArneGoetje> I'll try to get al teast some of the items done
[17:20] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[17:21] <bryce> pitti: right, they're both pretty much done, just waiting on bug reports :-)
[17:21] <pitti> ArneGoetje: if you think that we shold only do some parts in jaunty, please split the spec into two, then we'll track  just one for jaunty
[17:21] <bryce> pitti: regarding xorg-options-editor, Alberto sent me an initial implementation over the holidays; I've not yet reviewed/uploaded it, but plan to do so this week.
[17:21] <pitti> ArneGoetje: so I'll keep it on the jaunty list, and we'll see how far we get?
[17:22] <ArneGoetje> personally, I have the GUI rework on my list for the existing features. For the rest I need to see how much time I have left.
[17:22] <ArneGoetje> yes, I will split it and then we see how far we can go.
[17:22] <pitti> gpm-and-device-kit-power: that's mine, and ok for jaunty AFAICS; DK and DK-power are in, now waiting for tedg to package the new gpm
[17:23] <pitti> ArneGoetje: right, making the GUI friendlier sounded like a feasible task, and will help a lot on its own, even without new features
[17:23] <pitti> ArneGoetje: splitting by UI cleanup and new features sounds sensible
[17:23] <ArneGoetje> agreed.
[17:24] <pitti>    apport-retracer-maintenance: mine as well, and I deem it very important, since it is a "reward multiplier" kind of thing
[17:24] <tedg> pitti: That was one of the reasons I was trying to get core-dev to join the GPM team so I could make that PPA :)
[17:25] <pitti>    jaunty-gnome-help-langpacks: no assignee so far, and unclear how to solve it with Rosetta/Launchpad, so I don't mark it for now
[17:25] <pitti> asac: jaunty-nm-connection-policies
[17:25] <pitti> so you said that's not really jaunty-able?
[17:25] <asac> 18:14 < asac> i cannot come up with implementation details for the network-manager policy spec. that  definitly needs extension upstream discussion
[17:26] <asac> 18:15 < asac> but i will write down the arguments made and initiate that discussion
[17:26] <asac> 18:16 < asac> NM policy is quite unrealistic ... but i will try to do my best to at least get that going of  course ;)
[17:26] <asac> so yes ;)
[17:26] <bryce> ArneGoetje: I'd like to hear more from you regarding xkeyboard-config disposition; perhaps we can agenda it for next meeting?
[17:26] <pitti> ArneGoetje: ibus-improvement
[17:27] <ArneGoetje> bryce: sure, lets discuss this some day during this week.
[17:27] <bryce> ok
[17:27] <bryce> ArneGoetje: ping me when you have some time to chat on it
[17:27] <ArneGoetje> pitti: ibus is already in universe and will stay there for jaunty. should be tested first.
[17:28] <pitti> ArneGoetje: so it's mainly an issue with collecting feedback, and there's no initial development/packaging work to be done?
[17:28] <pitti> ArneGoetje: so you think we can already definitively say that it isn't something we'd enable in jaunty?
[17:29] <rickspencer3> I have to join a call
[17:29] <pitti> ArneGoetje: (we could alternatively switch to it right now, and switch back before FF if it is too buggy
[17:29] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'll continue to drive; you'll get the log? or I can send it to you
[17:29] <ArneGoetje> pitti: the items which need to be done will be done by upstream (with help by me if I have time for it). Packaging is done for the backend, but not the modules yet.
[17:30] <pitti> ah, ok
[17:30] <rickspencer3> I'll keep watching
[17:30] <ArneGoetje> pitti: we definetely need some testing first. Making it default now and see how many bugs come in, would be one way, yes.
[17:30] <pitti> ArneGoetje: so maybe the assignee of this spec should be changed then?
[17:31] <pitti> ArneGoetje: ok, let's first get it drafted; we'll continue to discuss it in the status box or via email/IRC
[17:31] <ArneGoetje> pitti: ok.
[17:31] <pitti> okay, that's it; I walked through the list of specs I'm approver for
[17:31] <pitti> did I miss anything?
[17:31]  * tseliot waves
[17:31] <pitti> I know that I handed off approvals to some other guys
[17:31] <pitti> tseliot: hey
[17:32] <Riddell> pitti: my specs don't seem to have an approver, what to do?
[17:32] <pitti> Riddell: my gut feeling is that you can/should approve them, unless you are drafing them yourself, then I'm happy to review them
[17:32] <pitti> Riddell: does that work for you?
[17:33] <pitti> (four-eyes principle)
[17:33] <pitti> but in general I think you can decide much better what's good and bad for Kubuntu
[17:33] <Riddell> pitti: ok
[17:33] <pitti> Riddell: can we walk through them quickly?
[17:33] <Riddell> can do, all listed at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuJauntySpecs
[17:34] <pitti> kubuntu-jaunty-gap-analysis
[17:34] <Riddell> pitti: is this a question? :)
[17:34] <pitti> or asked the other way around
[17:35] <pitti> Riddell: I guess you want all the ones you proposed for jaunty one minute ago approved?
[17:35] <Riddell> yes
[17:35] <pitti> done
[17:35] <Riddell> that was easy
[17:36] <pitti> Riddell: what about kubuntu-jaunty-documentation?
[17:36] <bryce> tseliot: would you like to give a brief summary of the status on your spec?  (I mentioned it already above, but feel free to add further words.)
[17:36] <Riddell> pitti: not written by me
[17:36] <tseliot> bryce: sure
[17:36] <Riddell> but should be approved by someone (me?) if it's in a sane state
[17:37] <tseliot> bryce: let's begin with Xorg Options Editor:
[17:37] <tseliot> status: almost complete (apart from some details in the packaging). It needs some testing and maybe some usability improvements.
[17:37] <pitti> Riddell: right, please set yourself as approver then
[17:37] <tseliot> screenshots: http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/xkit/xoe2.png and http://albertomilone.com/ubuntu/xkit/xoe1.png
[17:37] <pitti> Riddell: and kubuntu-jaunty-setup?
[17:38] <Riddell> pitti: don't think I can set myself as approver
[17:38] <tseliot> bryce: I think it should be ready in time for Jaunty's release
[17:38] <pitti> Riddell: ok, let's figure this out after the meeting
[17:38] <Riddell> kubuntu-jaunty-setup targeted to jaunty
[17:38] <pitti> tseliot: ok, so want me to put it on the jaunty goal list?
[17:39] <bryce> pitti: already is
[17:39] <pitti> tseliot: what's the blueprint name for this?
[17:39] <tseliot> spec: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xorg-options-editor
[17:39] <pitti> ah, ok
[17:39] <tseliot> there's another spec about Ctrl+Alt+Backspace:
[17:39] <pitti> bryce: it's in 'review', you are going to review/approve it, or do you want me to?
[17:39] <tseliot> (or getting back Ctrl+Alt+Backspace)
[17:39] <bryce> tseliot: ok thanks, I will do some testing and try making usability suggestions this coming week
[17:39] <bryce> pitti: sure I can do that
[17:40] <pitti> tseliot: that sounds like a contradiction to    xorg-ctrl-alt-backspace
[17:40] <tseliot> bryce: ok, thanks
[17:40] <tseliot> pitti: I was going to introduce the next spec
[17:40] <pitti> tseliot: heh, go ahead :)
[17:40] <tseliot> here's how we'll deal with the change in X.org in
[17:40] <tseliot> * in X/Ubuntu: either Xorg Options Editor or a simple "sudo dontzap --disable" (in the "dontzap" package) can be used
[17:41] <tseliot> while
[17:41] <tseliot> * in Kubuntu: a patch for system-settings (kdebase-workspace) (in C++ and QT4) which relies on the "dontzap" package which in turn depends on python-xkit (already installed by default in *buntu)
[17:41] <tseliot> status: complete. I will provide a patch soon. This is definitely ready for Jaunty.
[17:41] <tseliot> screenshot: http://www.albertomilone.com/ubuntu/kde/new_option.png
[17:41] <tseliot> NOTE: the screenshot is not updated and capitalisation is correct in the final release (as suggested by seele)
[17:41] <tseliot> As regards the other specs (wacom UI, display configuration UI, bulletproof-x UI), I don't think they can be ready in time for Jaunty's release.
[17:42] <tseliot> Riddell: I'll send you a patch for the KDE part soon
[17:42] <pitti> tseliot: is there a blueprint for the new zap option?
[17:42] <Riddell> tseliot: thanks
[17:42] <tseliot> pitti: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xorg-ctrl-alt-backspace
[17:43] <pitti> (it shouldn't be in the resolution tab)
[17:43] <pitti> tseliot: ah, silly me, of course
[17:43] <tseliot> pitti, Riddell: creating a whole new kcm module would mean more code and more waste of space
[17:44] <tseliot> ok
[17:44] <pitti> tseliot: thanks a lot for the headsup
[17:44] <tseliot> ;)
[17:44] <pitti> everyone happy with https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty now?
[17:45] <bryce> pitti: yep
[17:45] <pitti> (modulo kubuntu-jaunty-setup, will discuss with Riddell later)
[17:45] <seb128> pitti: looks good
[17:45] <ArneGoetje> pitti: yep
[17:45]  * tseliot nods
[17:45] <seb128> not too many specs so we can fix bugs too ;-)
[17:45] <pitti> asac: ok, seems you are off the hook for Jaunty wrt. specs. happy bug fixing! :-)
[17:46] <pitti> calc: I guess you'll implicitly have the "tame OO.o 3.0" spec :)
[17:46] <pitti> ok, one last thing
[17:46] <calc> yea jaunty-openoffice
[17:46] <pitti> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/pet-buglist.html could use some more flesh
[17:47] <pitti> let's create some competition
[17:47] <seb128> yeah, I'll add some, there is just lot of things to do after holidays ;-)
[17:47] <pitti> so please tag some of your favourite long-standing bugs which you like to work on as "pet-bug"
[17:48] <pitti> meeting time -- hm, we need Rick for that as well
[17:48] <pitti> rickspencer3: do you think your previous call will end up early enough to have the meeting back at 1600 UTC?
[17:49] <pitti> ArneGoetje: if ^ not, do you think we can have the next meeting at 1630 again, in order to discuss meeting time again? (perhaps move to another day)
[17:49] <seb128> and try to not go over an hour? ;-)
[17:49] <pitti> yeah, sorry, took long today
[17:49] <ArneGoetje> pitti: fine for me... I will probably arrange my working time according to it.
[17:50] <pitti> ok, AOB?
[17:50] <bryce> I like it at 8:30, gives me time for a shower :-)
[17:50] <seb128> thanks pitti
[17:50] <pitti> ok, thanks everyone
[17:50] <bryce> thanks
[17:50] <calc> thanks
[17:50] <pitti> adjourned
[17:50] <asac> pitti: thanks. sorry, bailed during the last minutes because of lengthy meeting.
[17:51] <tseliot> thanks
[17:51] <ArneGoetje> thanks. (01:50 here... heading to bed)
[17:51] <pitti> ACTION: everyone to add some pet-bugs by next meeting
[17:51] <pitti> ArneGoetje: thanks for staying up so long; sleep well!
[17:51] <asac> g'night ArneGoetje
[17:51] <ArneGoetje> pitti: :)
[17:51] <ArneGoetje> night night...
[17:52] <seb128> ok, I've to run but I'll be back after dinner
[17:52] <seb128> bbl
[17:53] <crevette> hello
[17:55] <pitti> Riddell: so I went through the jaunty specs and set drafter to you for the ones you drafted (and approver to me)
[17:55] <pitti> Riddell: so can you please have a look at kubuntu-jaunty-documentation and propose it for jaunty if you think it's feasible?
[17:56] <Riddell> pitti: proposed
[17:56] <pitti> Riddell: kubuntu-jaunty-package-manager has no people at all
[17:57] <Riddell> pitti: mm, I want to check if tonio wants to lead that but he doesn't have internet for another week
[17:57] <Riddell> I can just set it to me for now
[17:57] <pitti> Riddell: at least it shoudl have a drafter
[17:57] <pitti> ah, seems you wrote it?
[17:58] <Riddell> yep
[17:58] <Riddell> set me as assignee and drafter, you as approver
[17:58] <pitti> kubuntu-jaunty-setup's summary seems ... vague
[17:59] <pitti> tseliot: you proposed screen-configuration-ui for jaunty; do you think it's realistic, or shall I take it off the list?
[17:59] <Riddell> configuration settings
[18:00] <pitti> Riddell: same thing then? you drafter/assignee, me approver just for peer review?
[18:00] <Riddell> pitti: yep, done
[18:01] <pitti> ... and accepted for jaunty
[18:01] <pitti> so https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty should be good now
[18:01] <pitti> I'll go through the pending approvals now
[18:02] <pitti> rickspencer3: for the record, and the team meeting report: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty has all desktop specs for jaunty now, which we agreed on
[18:03] <tseliot> pitti: no, I don't think it will be ready in time for Jaunty
[18:03] <pitti> tseliot: ok, declined
[18:03] <tseliot> ok
[18:06] <pitti> tseliot: I declined wacom as well then
[18:06] <tseliot> pitti: well donw
[18:06] <tseliot> done
[18:06] <pitti> ok, I processed all the desktop-ish proposed goals as well now
[18:07] <pitti> tseliot: "well done" clicking a button? :-)
[18:08] <tseliot> pitti: yep :-P
[18:10] <rickspencer3> pitti: Thanks. Still on this call. Will review in 30 minutes or so
[18:11] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'm off to dinner, talk to you then
[18:23] <calc> it looks like Sun is happy to work with me on the language split :)
[18:24] <calc> they are nailing down who i would need to work with atm
[18:38] <pitti> calc: language split?
[18:40] <calc> pitti: for the OOo source split build to work effectively the language support files need to be split out of basically everything into their own directory (so can be split into another source)
[18:41] <calc> pitti: i worked a bit on trying to make it separately buildable for intrepid but it was unworkable without upstream support and so i talked to Sun directly about it and they seem to be happy to have me help them do the work in their tree directly :)
[18:41] <calc> pitti: so after the sprint i will be in hamburg for a week working with them on the split
[18:42] <calc> pitti: or at least it seems to be so far, still have to hear back final word from them, hopefully tomorrow
[18:42] <pitti> calc: ah, awesome
[18:42] <pitti> that will indeed help a lot
[18:42] <calc> novell has been doing a lot of work on the split build but the language part was essentially impossible to do except in sun's tree directly so they did some really ugly stuff to make it work for suse
[18:43] <calc> so this should help a lot, yes
[18:43] <calc> i think the sun/novell relationship was too strained to try to do what i am going to be doing themselves (novell)
[18:45] <rickspencer3> pitti: I'm back
[18:46] <rickspencer3> I'll pull out all the action items, etc... and we can talk tomorrow
[18:46] <pitti> rickspencer3: do you have the backlog, for creating the report?
[18:47] <rickspencer3> yeah, I just saved off all the text, if that's what you mean
[18:47] <calc> rickspencer3: as i mentioned to pitti above, i should know by tomorrow about going to hamburg, it looks good so far, asked about hotels today, need to book flight, etc still
[18:47] <rickspencer3> calc: sounds great
[18:47] <rickspencer3> unfortunately, I don't know what I should be doing to support you on that
[18:47] <rickspencer3> do you need me to just ok something?
[18:48] <rickspencer3> calc: also, is there a blueprint for the language split?
[18:48] <calc> rickspencer3: yea when i contact about hotel stay someone may contact you to verify i guess
[18:49] <calc> rickspencer3: i don't think there is a separate blueprint for it, but i can make one, it would be implemented in jaunty+1 i assume, will have to work out the details with sun as to when it would actually land
[18:50] <calc> rickspencer3: 3.1 (jaunty+1) is pretty close to done now but they might be able to get it moved for it, not really sure
[18:50] <calc> or else i could potentially move stuff around once i get it working as a backport for jaunty+1 in any case
[18:50] <rickspencer3> calc: I *think* a blueprint would be appropriate, but I trust you guys to educate me about what is the right way to capture the intent. In any case, I feel the split is a substantial and also seperable unit of work, so it would be good to document the intent
[18:51] <calc> backport upstream code to actual jaunty+1 (as opposed to an 'ubuntu backport')
[18:51] <calc> ok will do
[18:51] <rickspencer3> I need to take a break (been in meetings for the last four hours!
[18:51] <rickspencer3> brb
[18:51] <calc> ok