junior_paynedoes a kernel bug qualify as development discussion?01:16
crimsun(support for it, on the other hand, is a slippery slope)01:16
junior_paynegetting buffer I/O errors and end_request errors on my dvd any ideas on what could cause it? it's a sata drive using the sata_nv module I belive.01:17
junior_payneJan  5 18:55:53 quantum kernel: [79454.205582] end_request: I/O error, dev sr0, sector 68495601:17
junior_payneJan  5 18:55:53 quantum kernel: [79454.205592] Buffer I/O error on device sr0, logical block 17123901:17
junior_payneit's not drive specific either. happens on both optical drives.01:18
junior_payneI read other bug reports on similar cases but they were resolved and the workarounds didn't work for me. I was just wondering if there is some code I can look at to see if I could identify the problem.01:19
EtienneG_homeis there away to get SysRq on the console instead of syslog?  (for case when syslog is dead)09:57
EtienneG_homeor does it only work with serial console?09:57
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== foka__ is now known as foka
Keybukhow do I "git pull", but only up to a certain commit?11:40
sorenDo you have local changes?11:50
sorenI.e. will the pull involve a merge?11:50
sorenKeybuk: ^11:51
Keybuksoren: no12:24
Keybukgit fetch12:36
Keybukgit reset --hard sha112:37
Keybukseemed to work12:37
sorenExactly what I would have done. :) If I needed to merge local changes, I think I would have had to create a new branch, do the git-reset trick there, and merge from that.12:40
* soren really finds git to be a hassle.12:40
Keybukit's just as hard to do that in bzr12:46
Keybukso I'm not complaining ;)12:46
Keybukanyone feeling brave?13:30
Keybukudev 136 now in my PPA :p13:30
sorenKeybuk: Should we update all packages shipping udev rules to put them in /lib/udev/rules.d, then?14:05
sorenGuess so.14:07
Keybuksoren: I suspect it'd be easier to update dh_installudev14:07
Keybukbut yes, in general14:07
Keybuksince the rules file format has changed slightly, all packages at least need to be checked14:07
apwthey have changed the udev file format, what is with udev14:07
apwKeybuk, ok i've got a patch to add modalias love for mmc14:08
Keybukapw: Kay's POV is that only distributors ship udev14:08
Keybukso it's better to make improvements and fix issues than retain backwards compatibility14:08
sorenKeybuk: Oh, the format changed? Are the changes listed somewhere?14:11
KeybukNEWS file, as usual14:14
Keybukthe basic change is that things you probably tried to do before that didn't work now do14:15
Keybukie. NAME=="a*", NAME=="*b" is now valid14:15
Keybuk(previously it would only use one of those matches)14:15
Keybukalso NAME="foo" is no longer special cased to be non-overridable14:15
* apw swears at the jaunty kernel14:18
apwseems we have some nice little dri lockup in it14:18
cjwatsonanyone have a clue which device in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/314175 corresponds to the CD drive?14:20
ubot3Malone bug 314175 in debian-installer "Fujitsu U820 Hard Disk not detected by the installer" [Undecided,New] 14:20
rtgapw: all of the DRI stuff is back to being modules, right?14:20
cjwatsonerr, sorry - the hard disk I guess14:20
cjwatsonI thought it must be 8086:811a, but that module is available in the 8.10 installer unless I'm completely on crack14:20
apwrtg it was a module yes in the kernel i was testing against, 2.6.28-414:22
apwi have booted it twice and twice had X lock up on me after about 10 mins14:22
apwsecond time i got to login remote and found X sleeping and repeatedly trying to ioctl the dri deive14:22
apwi guess i'd better file a bug on it14:23
sorenKeybuk: Yikes. All those "Removing obsolete conffile /etc/udev/rules.d/foo" are scary :)14:25
rtgcjwatson: that ID is served by pata_sch.c --> debian/config/i386/config:CONFIG_PATA_SCH=y14:27
sorenKeybuk: Do you have a list of stuff that needs to be fixed along with the udev update?14:27
Keybuksoren: nope14:31
sorenKeybuk: Ok.14:32
* soren makes a list14:33
Keybukanything with /etc/udev/rules.d in its contents14:33
sorenupdate-grub for instance, calls /sbin/vol_id, but that's gone now.14:33
sorenI somehow doubt it's alone.14:33
sorenHmm... I suppose we could just (sort of) fix that now by pointing it at /lib/udev/vol_id, but its syntax (both output and arguments and such) is subject to change, isn't it?14:35
Keybukerr, did I drop /sbin/vol_id? :P14:39
Keybukthat's probably a bug :p14:39
sorenOh. :)14:42
cjwatsonrtg: right, but that's present in 8.10 which the reporter is using14:46
rtgcjwatson: how can you tell that he's using Intrepid?14:47
sorenrtg: cjwatson just knows.14:48
sorenHe's like that.14:48
cjwatsonrtg: he says at the top. "This is during a netboot over internet installation of intrepid."14:50
rtgah, he says it in lower case :)14:50
* cjwatson accepts linux-backports-modules-2.6.28 binaries14:52
rtgcjwatson: pata_sch is in d-i/pata_modules. would being a net boot have any affect?14:53
cjwatsonpata-modules is fetched by the installer once the network is up14:56
rtgthats what I assumed.14:56
cjwatsonit's not in the initrd but otherwise it should still work perfectly well for netboot (if this didn't work, netboot wouldn't recognise *any* hard disks)14:56
Keybukrtg: it looks like changing to CONFIG_LEGACY_PTY_COUNT=0 alone gives us ~1.6s15:05
rtgKeybuk: is there a graceful way to disable initramfs?15:05
Keybukrtg: don't put an initrd on the grub command line?15:06
rtgKeybuk: so, you just comment out the menu.lst entry?15:06
Keybukrtg: yeah, or press "d" at the grub boot menu15:06
rtgwhat about the volume ID problem? I had to specify the root as a /dev 15:09
ckingrtg: some insight on why root=UUID=xxxx does not work would be useful :-)15:11
cking..I was just thinking the same thing a moment ago15:11
rtgcking: thats kind of what I'm asking. why doesn't the kernel know the volume ID by the time it attempts to mount the root device.15:12
rtgis there something in the initramfs that trigger UUID functionality?15:13
ckingrtg: I just grabbed your no initramfs git tree and was going to put some debug in to see why it was failing15:14
KeybukI don't think the kernel supports root=UUID=15:14
rtgcking: we're still building an initramfs, its just that there are fewer modules that go into it.15:15
rtgKeybuk: isn't that kind of a sticky problem?15:15
ckingKeybuk: This is what I find a mystery: cat /proc/cmdline 15:15
ckingroot=UUID=302714e7-5fcd-4db3-b0dd-c17d36bc7696 ro quiet splash15:15
Keybukit's a SMOP15:15
rtgSMOP --> sticky problem15:16
Keybuk                case $ROOT in15:16
Keybuk                UUID=*)15:16
Keybuk                        ROOT="/dev/disk/by-uuid/${ROOT#UUID=}"15:16
Keybuk                        ;;15:16
Keybuk(from the initramfs init :p)15:16
ckingNo wonder why I could no see how the kernel was parsing this15:17
rtgcking: so the info is there, we just need to map it15:17
Keybuk                /dev/nfs)15:17
Keybuk                        [ -z "${BOOT}" ] && BOOT=nfs15:17
Keybuk                        ;;15:17
Keybukwho did _THAT_ hack?!15:18
mjg59The kernel, 15 years ago15:19
mjg59root=/dev/nfs was always supported15:19
ckingrtg: "we just need to map it" - err.. surely not in the kernel?15:21
* cking needs some strong coffee15:23
rtgcking: where else? the kernel is the only thing up at that point, assuming no initramfs.15:24
ckingrtg: ..grub?15:25
cking..but that would be really perverse15:27
rtgcking: I guess. grub has to be able to read the root device in order to boot.15:27
apwbut the kernel is what makes up the notion of a uuid in the first place15:28
ckingapw: err. true, but grub can do the mapping for most file systems too - I kind of think it's better to do it in the kernel though15:29
rtgcking: I agree. if you do it in grub 1, then you'll have to do it again for grub 215:34
ckingrtg: is the "if you do it" a SMOP for me? :-)15:35
rtgcking: aren't you already busy?15:35
apwactually it seems udev is responsible for the mapping, in userspace15:36
ckingrtg: ..always :-)  15:36
rtgapw: but udev isn't up at that point15:36
ckingapw: yeah - the udev has a library that does a UUID mapping library which I coerced into grub15:36
ckings/does a/has a/15:38
apwvery tricky all over15:41
apwwhy _is_ initramfs so damn slow15:41
rtgapw: thats rhetorical, right?15:42
apwa bit of both, half a second just for an empty one is mad15:43
rtgI suppose it takes a bit for busybox to launch15:43
Keybukdefine slow15:43
apwhalf a second15:44
Keybukwhat is half a second?15:44
apwit was quoted at UDS as something we want to stop using if at all possible15:44
Keybukwhere are you starting and stopping the clock? :)15:44
apwbecause it has a half second overhead even if its emptry15:44
apwsadly it wasn't me, thats why i am wondering why its such a problem15:45
Keybukfor me, the time between the first and last line of initramfs (as near as damnit, anyway) is ~3.6s15:45
sorenKeybuk: New udev drops me at a initramfs prompt.15:45
apwand why is it 3.6s15:45
sorenKeybuk: I'm still trying to work out why.15:45
Keybuksoren: debug for me ;)15:45
apwand more how much of that would need to be done after initramfs either way15:45
Keybukapw: 70-80% of initramfs time is spent in udev15:45
apwso we can ignore that right?15:46
Keybukmodprobe, bus scans, waiting for the root disk to show up, etc.15:46
apwas we will have to run it in real root once we get there15:46
apwif its not done already15:46
apwso, the real question is how much is done in there which is pointless15:46
apwi am sure it was the 5 s boot guys at plumbers who said "half a second even if it is empty"15:47
sorenKeybuk: Ah, got it.15:48
Keybuksoren: missing /sbin/vol_id? :p15:48
sorenKeybuk: You'd think so, wouldn't you? :)15:48
sorenNo cigar.15:48
soren/usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/lvm2 does:15:49
sorencp -p /etc/udev/rules.d/85-lvm2.rules ${DESTDIR}/etc/udev/rules.d15:49
apwrtg, have you got a boot time comparison for booting without an initrd time wise?  overall from bios to login?15:49
sorenAt that point, there is no etc/udev/rules.d, so it's created. As a file.15:49
rtgapw: just anecdotal from pitti15:49
rtgshaves approc 20 seconds15:50
Keybuksoren: ah :)15:50
* apw worries about all the effort UUID in the kernel would be, if nothing would be saved15:50
ckingapw: I tried it today on a dell with an SSD, and saved ~8 seconds without initramfs15:50
Keybuksoren: that should be /lib/udev/rules.d of course15:50
apwcking, and any idea why it saves 8s ?15:50
rtgapw: and thats without readahead15:50
sorenKeybuk: Well, yes. As a transition, the udev hook file should probable create the etc/udev/rules.d directory, though.15:50
ckingapw: less modules to load I suspect.15:51
apwso you did more than add an initrd, you built extra things in?15:51
apwthats all backwards, but you get my drift15:51
sorenKeybuk: Until we've fixed everything else to use /lib/udev/rules.d, this is going to blow up in our face, I think.15:51
Keybuksoren: I disagree15:52
ckingapw: I took rtg's kernel https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2009-January/003987.html15:52
Keybukit's far easier to find the broken things if they break15:52
Keybukotherwise they'll just break later when we remove the transition15:52
ckingapw: The BIOS is the major time waster now :-)15:52
apwso thats  comparing a stock to one with lots built in and no initrd15:53
apwso its not really an apples with apples comparison15:53
Keybukthere's no discernible difference in the kernel start time between everything built-in and everything a module15:54
apwthat is conflicting information from two sources15:55
Keybukyou are free to replicate my test ;)15:56
sorenKeybuk: I don't see why we'd be more willing to break and fall apart in initramfs than outside of it. Once the system is running, udev deals fine with stuff in /etc/udev/rules.d. If anything, we should be more accepting in initramfs. Failure to boot is worse.15:56
Keybuksoren: VERY few things should be installing rules into the initramfs15:57
Keybukthose that are should definitely be fixed to use /lib anyway15:57
Keybukyou'll note that udev doesn't really install any rules itself anymore15:57
sorenKeybuk: YEs, I noticed.15:58
ckingapw: I suggest you try the experiment yourself.. it won't take long .15:58
sorenKeybuk: There is one problem, AFAICS, though.15:58
sorenKeybuk: Ah, no, we can work around that.15:59
Keybuksoren: what problem?15:59
sorenKeybuk: I was thinking that we'd need to make a hard, versioned dependency between lvm2 and udev, because older udev versions wouldn't work with rules in /lib/udev/rules.d, and lvm2 wouldn't allow me to boot until it's moved to lib/udev/rules.d, but I guess in the meantime we can just make lvm2 create the /etc/udev/rules.d directory in the initramfs.16:00
Keybukactually, it will need a hard version anyway16:02
Keybukit doesn't depend on udev at all, no? :p16:02
Keybukwhich is a mistake16:02
Keybukit inherently has the hard dep because of the split out of watershed16:03
apwcking, yeah will have to do that, its all very confusing16:04
Keybukapw: ok, weird16:04
apwKeybuk, ?16:04
Keybuklsmod | wc -l16:04
Keybukuname -r16:05
Keybukthat's a lot more things in lsmod than I expected!16:05
apw28-4 isn't an all builtin kernel, just a lot more built in16:05
apwsound is likely half of it16:05
Keybukyeah, but I'm sure we talked about more of this stuff being built-in16:06
ckingapw: I'd like to understand it myself as deep analysis always results in better understanding - maybe when I have a spare moment :-)16:06
Keybukparport parport_pc lp16:06
apwyep i thought those made the cut16:06
apwas my machine hangs running that one i've not spent much time looking at it16:06
Keybukis what I built16:07
apwthat should do most fof it16:08
apwi don't see lp in there16:08
Keybukok, well it doesn't look like I fluffed the build16:09
apwyeah its much better than mine, i have 10516:09
apw(on an intrepid kernel) so something has improved16:09
Keybuksee my last two mails to kernel-team16:21
apwi think legacy count was done16:29
apwinteresting figures though16:33
ckingKeybuk: excellent analysis.16:44
Keybukapw: was done?16:46
apw-4 has the legacy count fixed in it right?  i think you say that in your second one16:47
cjwatsonKeybuk: what are you going to do in postinsts when files in /etc/udev/rules.d/ turn out to be modified?16:55
Keybukcjwatson: leave them16:55
cjwatsonoh yeah, same name overrides16:57
cjwatsonas long as no bright spark changes their rule filename (e.g. number) at the same time ...16:57
Keybukshouldn't really matter if they do16:58

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