/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/01/07/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: America's Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Jan 16:00: Foundation Team | 07 Jan 17:00: QA Team | 07 Jan 18:00: Edubuntu meeting | 08 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 08 Jan 13:00: Desktop Team
* cody-somerville yawns.02:50
* Hellow yawns harder02:50
* nhandler waves02:51
j1mcheya nhandler02:51
nhandlerHi j1mc02:51
davidmhi cody-somerville02:52
cody-somervilleHiya02:52
j1mcI feel like I should put my hand over my heart when I read the words, "America's Council."  Show respect for my continent and our continent to the south.  :)02:52
Hellowlol02:53
j1mcIt sounds so patriotic "America's Council."02:53
cody-somervilleWe just need a continental anthem now to start our meetings.02:54
nhandlerThat might be hard to do over IRC cody-somerville02:54
cody-somervilleIf we all sing loud enough, we might be able to hear each other.02:55
persiaIsn't that why we have DCC?02:55
HellowMassive amounts of all cap words?02:55
nhandlerpersia: That won't support live streaming. Maybe we should go to icecast02:55
j1mcOh, Canadaaa... the land of the free, and the home of the brave... Gird, oh country, your brow with olive02:56
j1mcthe mexican national anthem is pretty hardcore:  http://www.inside-mexico.com/anthem.htm02:57
vorianevening02:57
Hellowlol02:57
j1mchi vorian02:57
nhandlerHey vorian02:57
vorianwhile we are waiting, could all those folks who are up tonight for membership please prepare a brief summary (links would be great)02:57
vorianhi j1mc and nhandler :)02:58
HellowSummary as in what?02:58
jono_hi all02:58
PrivateVoidhello02:58
cody-somervilleHi02:58
nhandlerHellow: Of your contributions02:58
HellowAll my stuff is on my wiki...02:58
vorianhiya jono_02:58
nhandlerHey jono_02:59
=== jono_ is now known as jono
Rocket2DMngood evening02:59
vorianHellow: just a quick "hi, i'm <name> this is my wiki <link> this is my lp page <link> this is other cool stuff i do <link>02:59
HellowAh, ok02:59
HellowI will be following that one to the letter :)03:00
vorian:)03:00
jonohey vorian nhandler03:00
vorianwe are waiting for a few more people to show, as soon as they do, we'll get started03:00
vorianHI jono!03:00
jono:)03:01
HellowGot mine :)03:01
davidmOK, I've got mine too03:02
HellowMine is pretty short, dont expect anything spectacular03:02
* erichammond is ready03:03
* Hellow is ready03:03
* PrivateVoid nods03:03
Rocket2DMnvor, i dont see hikaricore, i wonder if he even knows how to use irc03:03
voriansorry for the delay, just need one more person to join the party03:03
Rocket2DMnwho are we waiting for?03:04
HellowHim03:04
vorRocket2DMn: Dunno03:04
Rocket2DMnokie dokie then03:04
vorianthere are only 3 of us from the membership board here right now03:05
Rocket2DMnwhat a rockin' party03:05
Hellowlol03:05
PrivateVoidis pleia2 here?03:05
Rocket2DMnpleia2, you gonna dance with us or what?03:05
pleia2yes :)03:05
PrivateVoidcool.03:05
Rocket2DMnwoot!03:05
PrivateVoidhello03:05
Rocket2DMnhow were your holidays pleia2 ?03:06
andresmujicahi! good night!03:06
pleia2Rocket2DMn: nice, thank you, yours?03:06
Rocket2DMnpretty good, i was in CA for a few days03:06
Rocket2DMnyou watch that rose bowl game :)03:06
pleia2nah03:06
Rocket2DMnprobably for the best, hehe03:06
Rocket2DMni got sick starting the day after though, i was wiped out for 3 full days and then some03:07
vorianfor those intersted, this would be tonights agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas03:07
pleia2Rocket2DMn: yikes, that's lousy03:08
Rocket2DMnyeah really, im still working on getting back to 100%03:08
Hellowouch03:08
vorianalrighty!03:09
pleia2hurrah, eightyeight!03:09
PrivateVoidHey 8803:09
vorianPrivateVoid: you are up!03:09
PrivateVoidpleia2, this is the eightyeight you were telling me about, heh?03:09
eightyeightsorry i'm late. 2nd day on the job03:09
PrivateVoidMy name is PrivateVoid (aka Charles) this is my wiki page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrivateVoid and this is my lp page: https://launchpad.net/~privatevoid. I work as a System Adminsitrator is a K-12 school disrict. I contribute some time and effort to supporting FOSS at the following sites - http://community.k12opensource.com/ and http://www.classroom20.com/ in addition to other various social networking sites. My hobbies are phot03:09
PrivateVoidography, programming, and computer security and forensices. I have been using Linux for two years at home and have been around the edges since SUSE was released (1993 I think if memory serves). I am looking forward to contributing more to Ubuntu and FOSS. I feel like Bachelor #3 tonight. Questions?03:09
vorianNew York LoCo eh?03:11
PrivateVoidYes, the NY LoCO03:11
PrivateVoidit draws breath again03:11
PrivateVoid:-)03:11
vorianhow's the team doing?03:11
TheDukeNYwhoohoo go NY LoCo03:11
VantraxLove the work your doing in the education side of the Beginners Team PV03:11
PrivateVoidThe team is growing slowly... vorian... we have some activity in New City, Syracuse, Potsdam (new person) and Rochester03:12
PrivateVoidthanks Vantrax03:12
vorianhi MikeB03:12
MikeBHi03:12
PrivateVoidTo be honest I hope we accomplish much more with BT EDU03:12
vorianPrivateVoid: i can see that would be challenging, large land area to cover03:12
cody-somervillePrivateVoid, There are a number of ways to contribute to Ubuntu. What would you say is the primary way you make a difference in the Ubuntu project?03:13
PrivateVoidIt is... and with four major cities (I call them major) it tends to clump people03:13
MikeBIrcing on my iPhone wish me luck03:13
vorianMikeB: (i hope with iSSH)03:13
PrivateVoidcody-somerville, Evangelizing and spreading the word03:13
MikeBNope03:13
PrivateVoidI am not up to speed with programming yet, so my efforts have been focused on working with new members and growing the NY LoCo03:14
pleia2MikeB: we managed to snag eightyeight to get quorum, so if it's too much trouble we're cool03:14
vorianI can attest to the work PrivateVoid has done on the forums and BT.  He does a wonderful job.03:15
PrivateVoidI also want to eventually get involved in bug triage, but the BT and NY LoCo have taken the front seat03:15
PrivateVoidand I see that trend continuing for a while at least03:15
PrivateVoidthree kids only allow so much time for such things03:15
pleia2and I've worked with PrivateVoid on getting the NY Team up and going again, very motivated, AND we've worked together on getting the beginners team classroom sessions off the ground03:15
pleia2great work :)03:15
HellowI think you do great work in all areas, PrivateVoid :)03:15
vorianany one here to cheer for PrivateVoid?03:15
PrivateVoidpleia2, we have three scheduled03:15
nhandlero/03:15
Rocket2DMnGO PV!03:15
HellowWhat he said :)03:16
TheDukeNYI am03:16
* TheDukeNY cheers03:16
nhandlerPrivateVoid has done a great job with the BT Education FG, and it really shows. Great job PrivateVoid03:16
cody-somervillePrivateVoid, Contributions of that nature can sometimes be hard to measure. What do you feel are the best indicators of a sustained and significant contributions via evangelizing?03:16
PrivateVoidcody-somerville, to be honest the fact that the NY team is holding events again and getting people who were kind of depressed re-motivated03:17
TheDukeNYAs a member of NY LoCo I may also say he is a very motivated person, excellent, hard working, strongly driven, motivated, well educated, etc.03:17
nhandlercody-somerville: His work with the BT Education group can be seen here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Education/Events. He has several events lined up already.03:17
PrivateVoidIn addition to that we have seen a huge amount of growth with the BT though much of that success goes to the team as a whole and I just played a role in that as a team member03:17
PrivateVoidyou can also see the NY Team newsletter03:18
cody-somervilleDo you have a link for the NY Team newsletters?03:18
PrivateVoidhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewYorkTeam/Newsletter/Issue103:18
PrivateVoidits our first issue... and has a way to go before it will be what we need... but it is a start03:18
PrivateVoidIf I am lucky I may even be able to get a 'test' lab put in with Linux in the school district I work in...03:19
PrivateVoidwhich could help a great deal IMHO03:19
cody-somervillePrivateVoid, Do you feel the NY Team is integrated well with greater Ubuntu Community? Also, do you feed your content in your newsletter upstream to the UWN Folks for inclusion in the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter when appropriate?03:19
PrivateVoidthat experience could then be used as a template for others to follow03:19
vorianwell said03:19
PrivateVoidcody-somerville, I have contributed some of the content to UWN (though not with that first newsletter)... I think the NY LoCo has some growth to do to be a true part of the greater community... but we need to grow locally a bit more before that will be 'felt'03:20
* Vantrax would like to acknowladge the work PrivateVoid does to get new users integreating into the community03:20
PrivateVoidWe are trying to get all the four regions we have activity in to participate in the Global bug jam... but that would just be a start03:21
PrivateVoidThe Newsletter is also not my work alone03:21
PrivateVoiddaradib, a new NY LoCo member has put it together03:21
cody-somervillePrivateVoid, Keeping us all connected is important and I'm excited to hear that you feel the same way. I'd encourage you to work with the UWN on your newsletter so that everyone can benefits and read the great content you produce.03:21
PrivateVoidand I would only take credit for asking people to take that bull by the horn and contributing a few things to it03:22
PrivateVoiddelegation will be the key in growing a LoCo IMHO03:22
pleia2absolutely03:22
cody-somervilleindeed03:22
* deejoe nods03:22
cody-somerville+1 for great work in the community and his loco team03:22
* TheDukeNY nods03:22
pleia2+103:22
pleia2excellent work PrivateVoid :)03:23
MikeB+103:23
vorian+1 from me as well, wonder job all the way around03:23
PrivateVoidI work with Tyche alot so I intend to assist with the UWN03:23
PrivateVoidthanks, pleia203:23
PrivateVoidand vorian03:23
eightyeight+1 on ny loco work03:23
voriancongrats PrivateVoid, and welcome aboard03:23
* PrivateVoid smiles03:24
PrivateVoidthanks everyone03:24
cody-somervillePrivateVoid, Congratulations PrivateVoid and welcome aboard. It was pleasure meeting you this evening.03:24
nhandlerCongrats PrivateVoid. You deserve it03:24
Rocket2DMncongratulations PrivateVoid !03:24
robbmunsonCongrats dude03:24
HellowNicely done PrivateVoid03:24
robbmunsonim glad i made it in time ;)03:24
PrivateVoidis there some next step I must take?03:24
PrivateVoidLP or other?03:24
* Vantrax cheers PV03:24
vorianvor, you're up!03:24
vorOk03:24
cody-somervillePrivateVoid, you'll be notified by e-mail when you've been added to the ubuntumembers team within the next 24 hours.03:24
vorHola.  My name is Shaun Dennie.  I'm a long time Unix hacker and have been an Ubuntu user since 5.10.  My wiki page can be found here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ShaunDennie and my forums page can be found here http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=21731503:24
vorI'm a moderator for the Ubuntu forums and an active member of the forums Beginner Team in IRC.  Since early 2008, I generally spend several hours a day helping people on the Ubuntu forums.03:24
vorI'm also a member of the Argentina LoCo.  My official duties for the Argentina LoCo include helping people on the forums, helping people at open source gatherings and arguing about fútbol.03:24
vorI've really enjoyed being part of the community and would like to take the next step to get even more involved.03:24
SajnoxHi! My name is Miguel Sajnovsky, I'm an ubuntu member since last november and I'm here to support Vor. What I would like to mention about him is how much he loves to help newcomers, always giving support and showing in a very humble way how much does he know about ubuntu. I understand that he trully feels the spirit of being an ubuntu member. https://launchpad.net/~miguel.sajnovsky03:25
eightyeightvor: nice testimonials on your wiki03:26
vorThank you03:26
nhandlerVor is never afraid to help new users. Most users are only confident enough to help out when they have other people around to back them up. On countless occassions, I have seen vor helping people on IRC alone. He just kept working with them until the problem was solved.03:26
pleia2vor: great work on the forums, do you see yourself expanding your work from there into other portions of ubuntu? or have other general future goals?03:27
cody-somervillevor, It seems you help out a lot by helping answer questions. Its great to see you've created a number of tutorials on popular topics. :) What is one question you get asked more than any other?03:28
vorpleia2: For a while now I've been thinking about become a developer actually.  I haven't decided what specific direction I want to go with it (probably kernel or something low level) so I've been putting it off until I've decided.  I imagine sometime this year I'll start writing code again.03:28
vorcody-somerville: "I just installed 4G of RAM and Ubuntu only sees 3G.  What's wrong?"03:28
cody-somervilleWow. Thats unexpected.03:29
vorcody-somerville: Almost all my tutorials are question driven.  If I answer a question enough, I write a formal tutorial to point people at.03:29
cody-somervillevor, Do you have any plans on moving them to the community help wiki?03:29
vorcody-somerville: It's not something I'd thought of yet.  One of the reasons I enjoy writing tutorials on the forums is the interactive nature of it.  People may have questions or problems with the tutorial and it's easy to help them on the forums.03:31
* cody-somerville nods.03:31
vorianAlthough I could just growl at vor, I do have to admit that he is a wonderful Staffer on Ubuntu Forums - and does great work with the Beginners Team.03:31
vorHaving said that, I wouldn't mind making them wikis.  I've been talking to some of the Argentina LoCo members and they are interested in helping me translate a few of them to Spanish as well.03:31
=== ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae
cody-somervillevor, Do you have any experience with Launchpad Answers? If so, what do you feel could be done to help improve the experience?03:32
vorcody-somerville: I've only encountered it briefly with google searches so, I'm not familiar enough with it to know what could be improved.03:32
vorianI'm happy to give you a +1! keep up the great work03:35
* PrivateVoid support Vor03:35
pleia2+1 from me too, amazing forums work and it's very exciting to hear you may want to become a dev :)03:35
* Rocket2DMn is here for vor!03:36
* Hellow also supports vor03:36
MikeBVor is a great mod on the forums. I give him a strong +103:36
* nhandler gives Vor his support03:36
eightyeight+1 on good forums activity03:36
cody-somerville+1 for contributions on the forums. Keep on doing a great job writing tutorials. I know from experience that they make life for folks so much easier :)03:36
* Vantrax is here for Vor03:36
jonosorry folks, I hate to interrupt, but I have a call coming up, and I just wanted to pledge my support for davidm's application03:36
jonojust in case I am on the call03:37
pleia2jono: no problem, thanks!03:37
MikeBThank jono03:37
jonohe is an excellent contributor, I noted my support on his application03:37
jonothanks folks!03:37
voriannn jono03:37
cody-somervillevor, Congratulations and welcome aboard!03:38
vorThanks!03:38
Rocket2DMnwoohoo! congrats vor !03:38
SajnoxCongrats Vor!!! (This San Lorenzo will be winning the next championship?)03:38
HellowCongrats vor03:38
nhandlerCongrats vor03:38
vorThanks everyone for your support too03:38
=== robbmunson is now known as robb_away
Sajnox*This means ??03:38
vorSajnox: Let's hope.  ;)03:38
pleia2Rocket2DMn: you're up!03:38
Rocket2DMnalrighty03:39
cody-somervillevor, You'll be notified by e-mail when you've been added to the ubuntumembers launchpad team within the next 24-48 hours or so. If you have a blog, be sure to add it to the planet :)03:39
Rocket2DMnHello, my name is Connor Imes aka Rocket2DMn.  My wiki page can be found here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Rocket2DMn and launchpad here - https://launchpad.net/~rocket2dmn03:39
Rocket2DMnI'm a software engineer by trade, was born/raised/educated in CA but now live and work in PA.  I've been using Ubuntu since Feisty and have been actively contributing since day 1.  Notable areas of contribution are the forums (especially the Beginners Team and as Staff), wiki documentation, and launchpad bug triaging.  I really enjoy spreading my time between the different areas, and each is so different that I get to learn a lot in t03:39
Rocket2DMnhe process as well.03:39
Rocket2DMnThrough my Ubuntu adventures, I've also been blessed to work directly with a number of the people on the this council (vorian, MikeB, and pleia2) and some of today's membership candidates (PrivateVoid, vor, hikaricore, and Hellow)!03:39
pleia2also, beer :d03:39
Rocket2DMnbeer++03:39
Rocket2DMnit played a major role along the way, pleia2 !03:39
pleia2:)03:40
* Vantrax has had help from Rocket2DMn on Launchpad several times. Yay Rocket2DMn03:40
nhandlerI have spent a lot of time with Rocket2DMn. Although he spends time in many areas, his contributions are significant and significant in all of them. He has triaged all sorts of bugs on Launchpad, worked hard to clean up the wiki over the summer (and keeps the BT wiki pages up-to-date), and is very active on the forums and on IRC. He has my complete support03:40
* Hellow supports Rocket2DMn 100%03:41
PrivateVoidI agree nhandler he was very active in the 'summer of documentation' project03:41
cody-somervilleRocket2DMn, any plans to get involved in development efforts?03:41
Rocket2DMncody-somerville, perhaps sometime down the road, it's stepping into a whole other domain that i already spend time on at work (sometimes), and there could be legal issues that arise because of work that i dont want to think about yet03:42
cody-somervilleRocket2DMn, The FocusGroup wiki pages look pretty snazzy03:43
* nhandler notes that PrivateVoid created the nice headers03:43
PrivateVoidI actually borrowed the core of it from the Mass / AZ teams and modified them with Rocket2DMn's approval and we did them together03:44
Rocket2DMni had help from PrivateVoid and other team members to build up our Beginners Team wiki as well, most of the actual Focus Group pages are mad by the group leaders.  i run the Wiki FG - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki03:44
pleia2Rocket2DMn: your future plans page is slightly abandoned (becoming a member is on there for "someday"), want to take a look and see if there is anything you'd like to add?03:44
Rocket2DMnPrivateVoid, made those sexy headers03:44
pleia2s/page/section03:44
Hellowsmexy03:45
Rocket2DMnpleia2, as of right now, i want to maintain my level of contribution, since i moved across the country and started work ive been happy to simply maintain.  I'm always trying to learn more about the different domain to which i contribute though.03:45
Rocket2DMnI'd like to get better and troubleshooting and triaging certain areas, like kernel, wireless, and video03:45
pleia2Rocket2DMn: any interest in getting involved with the US-PA loco team? :)03:45
Rocket2DMnpleia2, I'm trying my best to attend the nearest meetings, and hopefully any events that pop up03:46
Rocket2DMni wish i had been there for the Intrepid party, but i was in CA03:46
pleia2great03:46
pleia2yeah :)03:46
PrivateVoidincluding the cross-border NY-PA meet up; right?03:46
pleia2hehe03:47
Rocket2DMnheck yeah PrivateVoid , just tell us what bar03:47
voriani'm happy to +1 Rocket2DMn, great stuff!03:47
Vantraxlol03:47
pleia2+1 Rocket2DMn, excellent work :)03:47
cody-somerville+1 for great work on the forums and also peer feedback03:47
MikeB+103:47
eightyeight+1 from me03:48
* PrivateVoid using Google maps to choose the bar....03:48
PrivateVoid:-03:48
voriancongrats Rocket2DMn! and welcome aboard :)03:48
Rocket2DMnThanks everyone for your +1s and my buddies for your support :)03:48
PrivateVoidcongrats Rocket2DMn!!03:48
Rocket2DMnty vorian03:48
HellowGrats Rocket2DMn03:48
tim_sharittCongrats Rocket2DMn03:48
nhandlerCongrats Rocket2DMn !03:48
cody-somervilleRocket2DMn, Be sure to add your blog, if you have one, to the planet once you've been added to the ubuntumembers launchpad group.03:49
Rocket2DMn=D03:49
vorCongrats Rocket2DMn03:49
PrivateVoidcody-somerville, you want the blogs to be FOSS or Ubuntu related correct?03:49
PrivateVoidI have five... but only two are tech related03:49
vorianit seems hikaricore is not here...03:49
vorianerichammond: your up!03:49
erichammondHi, My name is Eric Hammond. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EricHammond and https://launchpad.net/~esh03:50
erichammondMy primary contributions to Ubuntu so far are the building, maintaining, documenting, promoting, and supporting of public virtual machine images for running Ubuntu on Amazon EC2 (Elastic Compute Cloud) which I have been doing since late 2007.03:50
erichammondI have been fostering an Ubuntu on EC2 community which is around 700 registered members and growing (number of readers beyond that is not clear).03:50
erichammondI have also been working with Canonical the last few months in an advisory and testing capacity as the new official Ubuntu images are being built and released for EC2.03:50
jonobtw, back now03:52
vorianerichammond: i'm a little confused at your first testimonial03:52
vorianis it missing or is the link bad?03:53
erichammondMark Shuttleworth generously offered the following testimonial for sharing with the membership board:03:53
erichammond"Eric has made a sustained and substantial contribution to the Ubuntu community through his work on EC2. His Ubuntu images for Amazon EC2, and his leadership of the community that is growing up around Ubuntu on EC2, easily warrant membership in my opinion. I very much appreciate the time that he has put into this initiative, and think it will be very important work in growing the community of people who work wi03:53
vorian(it was cut off at "community of people who work w")03:53
vorian:)03:53
erichammond...community of people who work with Ubuntu on the server in 2009."03:54
vorianthanks!03:54
cody-somervilleerichammond, Were you at UDS Jaunty?03:54
erichammondcody-somerville: Yes, I flew myself up for one day.03:54
cody-somervilleerichammond, What sort of EC2 initiatives are you involved with for Jaunty?03:55
erichammondIt was great to meet the Ubuntu server team folks I'd been working with online.03:55
erichammondTwo directions: I build images myself for EC2 and Jaunty is included in them03:56
erichammondYou can see the complete list here: http://alestic.com03:56
eightyeighterichammond: where is mark's testimonial documented?03:56
erichammondI also support the server team in the development of vmbuilder and the official Ubuntu images for EC2.  At the moment that effort is focused on Intrepid, but it should work transparently for Jaunty as well.03:56
cody-somervilleerichammond, do you have anyone here from the Server team to root for you?03:57
erichammondeightyeight: He sent it to me in email.03:57
cody-somerville:)03:57
cody-somervilleerichammond, would you be able to forward the e-mail to our mailing list?03:57
erichammondcody-somerville: Based on the phrasing I assumed the rest of the email was private and I would not feel comfortable doing so without his permission.03:58
cody-somervilleerichammond, No problem.03:58
erichammondI can check with him, but I'm guessing now is not a good time.03:59
vorianI'm happy to +104:00
cody-somervilleerichammond, don't worry about it04:00
vorianEC2 is really cool stuff, and I'm happy to see what progress is being made there04:00
eightyeight+1 here04:00
cody-somerville+1 from me as well. I'm excited to see more EC2 yummyness in the future.04:00
pleia2+1 from me, great work on EC2 :)04:00
MikeB+104:02
vorianerichammond: congrats! and welcome aboard!04:02
erichammondThank you all!04:02
cody-somervilleCongratulations04:02
vorianerichammond: no, thank you for your contributions :)04:03
cody-somervilleerichammond, Please be sure to add your blog, if you have one, to the planet once you've been added to the ubuntumembers launchpad group!! :)04:03
nhandlerCongrats erichammond !04:03
pleia2andresmujica: you're up :)04:03
andresmujica:)04:03
andresmujicaHi, first of all, i want to apologize for not attending last meeting, to be honest i was confused about the date and didn't make it in time. It was too late when i got connected. Sorry about that.04:03
andresmujicaMy name is Andres Mujica, my wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndresMujica  my launchpad page is https://edge.launchpad.net/~andres-mujica and my LinkedIn profile is at http://www.linkedin.com/in/andresmauriciomujica. I'm an Ubuntu user since Warty, full time Linux user since RH 7.1 and Linux "concious" since slackware -no idea which one- around '95.04:04
pleia2no problem04:04
andresmujicaI've earned the RHCE and DCAP certifications, and hopefully would pursue the Ubuntu ones this year.04:04
andresmujicaMy main contribution to Ubuntu is at Bug triaging as member of the bugsquad (i.e. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cheese/+bug/290506 ) and im in queue for bugcontrol membership (there are some aplications unreviewed, mine between those). Also i've made some small contribs to the wiki aMy main contribution to Ubuntu is at Bug triaging as member of the bugsquad (i.e. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cheese/+bug/290506 ) and im04:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 290506 in ubuntu-release-notes "cheese malfunctioning with UVCVIDEO webcams (was cheese doesn't show v4l2 video output and disables output on gstreamer-based apps ran afterwards)" [Undecided,Confirmed]04:04
andresmujicaupps04:04
vorianhaha04:05
andresmujicathat mouse!!!!04:05
andresmujicai was wondering how did i've managed to get that long!!!04:05
andresmujicaMade some Ubuntu migrations at seat level for customers at the company i work at.04:06
eightyeightandresmujica: just being thorough here, but i noticed you are a bug squad member since 2006, but i only see bug karma since 2008?04:08
andresmujicayes, i've made some work at the beginning but was consumed by work.04:09
andresmujicaSince last year i've managed to get at least weekends and some hours at night to work on it..04:09
eightyeightandresmujica: what do you plan on doing with ubuntu in the future? where do you see yourself making the greatest amount of contributions?04:10
andresmujicawell, i like a lot triaging beacuse i believe it's the best way to help the Ubuntu community, making things work.04:11
andresmujicaso my efforts would be in that direction.04:11
andresmujicaProbably i'll cover also server issues as that market grows with Ubuntu.04:11
vorianandresmujica: what have you done since last we met?04:12
vorian:)04:12
andresmujicamostly triaging, and made an addon to a wiki page04:12
vorianyou really have done great with the bugs04:13
andresmujicarecolecting the webcam bugs that were around affectng intrepid users.04:13
andresmujicahttps://help.ubuntu.com/community/Webcam#Intrepid/Updated%20Hardy%20current%20issues%20with%20webcams04:13
andresmujicahttp://daniel.holba.ch/5-a-day-stats/   (triaging stats!! ;)04:13
andresmujicai would love to find ways to integrate more the forums with bug reports04:14
andresmujicaas the bug trends start arising at the forums04:14
Vantraxthats a great idea04:14
andresmujicaand then go to launchpad04:14
andresmujicayeap,04:15
andresmujicais the easist way to found bugs and dupes.04:15
Rocket2DMnforums and bug reports are an awesome combo04:16
cody-somervilleandresmujica, Do you have anyone here to cheer for you?04:16
persiaI'd like to speak in support of andresmujica 's triaging activity: he not only hits lots of bugs, but tends to ask insightful questions that lead to resolution.04:16
cody-somervillepersia, :)04:16
andresmujica:)04:16
andresmujicathks!04:16
Vantraxafter that last suggestion im cheering04:16
voriananyone else here to cheer for andresmujica? :)04:16
* andresmujica wants to cheer too!04:17
robb_awaygo get em bud, bugs are a great way to go :)04:17
Hellowyep04:17
vorian+1 from me, great improments. Thanks for your contributions!04:17
andresmujicathanks to you vorian!04:18
pleia2+104:18
MikeB+104:18
andresmujica:)04:18
cody-somerville+004:18
eightyeight+1 here.04:20
pleia2congrats andresmujica :)04:20
voriancongrats andresmujica! welcome aboard :)04:20
andresmujica!!!04:20
andresmujicawow!04:20
andresmujicathanks!!04:20
nhandlerCongrats andresmujica04:20
vorianawesome04:21
Rocket2DMncongrats man04:21
andresmujicathanks to you all!!04:21
robb_awaycongrats :D04:21
Hellowgrats04:21
andresmujica:-D04:21
pleia2davidm: you're up :)04:21
davidmHi I'm David Mandala (davidm) this is my wikki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DavidMandala, and my lp page https://launchpad.net/~davidm04:21
davidmI'm a generalist, computer and electronics geek, I do some coding, some  evangelizing, I explain Ubuntu Mobile Linux and why getting your device running with it is a good thing ;-) and a bunch of other stuff, it's listed on my wiki page.  I like to get "stuff" done. ;-)04:21
davidmI tend to do things to and with: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam04:21
cody-somervilledavidm, Why did you choose to get involved with Ubuntu?04:23
davidmI have been involved with Linux for a long time, I've tried most distros one time or another.04:23
davidmI liked RedHat for a while until they choose to drop their community and I eventually landed with Debian04:24
eightyeightdavidm: _nice_ testimonials04:24
davidmBut Debian was too slow,04:24
davidmyou either had to use stable (years old) or testing (not bad but iffy) or unstable (very unstable)04:25
davidmThen Ubuntu came on the seen and I tried it, it was everything good I liked about Debian but far far less pain04:25
davidmStuff that I could convert my wife too :-)04:25
davidmeightyeight, thanks04:26
davidmIt let me show people the goodness of Linux with out the pain of most of the distros04:26
davidmSo I jumped in with both feet, then wanted to do more04:26
eightyeightdavidm: is most of work work with the mobile team, or are you focused elsewhere?04:26
davidmI'm mostly focused on mobile as I've spent a great deal of time in the embedded space and I see the mobile space as a brand new playing field,04:27
davidmI assist other teams as I can but focus mostly on Ubuntu mobile.04:28
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Jan 16:00: Foundation Team | 07 Jan 17:00: QA Team | 07 Jan 18:00: Edubuntu meeting | 08 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 08 Jan 13:00: Desktop Team | 08 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java
eightyeightdavidm: where do you want to see ubuntu mobile in the future?04:28
davidmI'm a lucky man, I get to work on my hobby and help make changes that will be felt by lots of folks04:28
cody-somervilledavidm, Where do you see Ubuntu Mobile in 2 years?04:29
eightyeightcody-somerville: copycat. :)04:29
davidmI want to see it running on ARM, Atom, and smaller devices, not necessarily phones but new classes of mobile devices that are coming.04:29
Rocket2DMnare we going to see uPhones?04:30
robb_away+1 Rocket2DMn, if so i want one ;)04:30
Hellowlol04:30
davidmI see it on all ARM netbooks, many Atom netbooks and other places yet to be defined04:30
davidmLong term we will see some interesting things in the phone space I suspect with Ubuntu04:30
davidmbut not today, it's too soon04:31
eightyeightdavidm: +1 from me on the mobile team. i'm excited to see its future04:31
davidmThe market is growing at a pace that is insane and it's going to be exciting to be part of it.04:31
davidmeightyeight, thanks04:31
cody-somervilleAnyone here to cheer for davidm?04:32
MikeB+104:32
* jono waves04:32
eightyeightwe did have jono04:32
cody-somerville:)04:32
davidmjono, was/is :-)04:32
jonodavidm is a great Ubuntu contributor04:32
davidmSome of the others are in the EU so this meeting was too late for them.04:32
pleia2+1 for exciting mobile work, thank you!04:32
vorian+1 from me04:33
cody-somerville+1 for great work with Ubuntu Mobile and impressive peer feedback.04:33
vorian(i'd like kde on my iphone please)04:33
Rocket2DMn/facepalms04:33
robb_awayhehe04:33
Hellowheh04:33
davidmvorian, I like the google G1 phone better but I agree.04:33
cody-somervilledavidm, Please be sure to add your blog, if you have one, to the Ubuntu planet once you've been added to the ubuntumembers team on launchpad :)04:33
davidmthanks everyone04:34
nhandlerCongrats davidm !04:34
paultaggrats davidm04:34
Hellowyep, gratz04:34
cody-somervilleCongratulations davidm04:35
vorian:)04:35
davidmcody-somerville, thanks, now I can go off to LCA to speak as an Ubuntu member ;-)04:36
cody-somerville:)04:36
vorianok Hellow! you're up!04:36
Hellowok04:36
HellowHello, i'm Collin Pruitt, my wiki is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hellow, my Launchpad page is at https://launchpad.net/~hellow. I am a middle school student. I work mainly in IRC, although I frequent the forums, wiki, and Launchpad. I am involved with the game Netrek, possibly the first team-based internet game. I work as a part-time developer there. Their website is here: http://www.netrek.org/. I plan on becoming involved with Compiz and Comp04:36
Hellowiz++, and learning C++ and more Python. I mainly work with computer hardware, although I am also good at networking/IT. I have been using Linux for at or just over 2 years now, and enjoying it all the way. I have worked with PrivateVoid, vorian, vor, and Rocket2DMn, all from the Beginners Team.04:36
cody-somervillew00t I love Netrek!04:36
Hellowheh04:36
HellowDo you play it often?04:37
cody-somervilleNot in a year or two04:37
cody-somervilleBut I'd love to get playing again04:37
cody-somerville:)04:37
HellowThey have a IRC channel called #netrek04:37
paultagHellow also is a member of our Development team in the Ubuntu Forums Beginners Team04:37
cody-somervilleWhat does the development team do?04:37
* vorian chuckles at "irc #3 /msg Hellow"04:37
paultagcody-somerville, we help teach the basics of development ( coding with a team, subversion etc. ) we also handle any team dev work ( websites etc )04:38
HellowHe described it well :)04:38
cody-somervillepaultag, Is Hellow an active member?04:38
cody-somervillepaultag, What would you say is your primary means of contributing to Ubuntu?04:39
paultagcody-somerville, yes. he is in our sub channel. He is there to throw his opinion around if not as much as myself ( as the leader ), pretty damn close04:39
paultagcody-somerville, we move members to become MOTU04:39
paultagcody-somerville, and no I am not MOTU04:39
* cody-somerville nods.04:39
HellowMy promary means of contributing is IRC, since it is the most accessible for me at times04:40
vorianHellow: what is a goal you have this year, in regards to ubuntu contribuions?04:40
HellowI intend to become more active in all areas of Ubuntu04:41
HellowWiki, Forums, LP, etc.04:41
* cody-somerville nods.04:41
Rocket2DMnHellow, if you have any specific areas of interest, I think they would like to know those.04:41
vorianHellow: any specific area?04:41
vorianRocket2DMn: ++04:42
HellowMainly the forums, as that is another area I am good at04:42
cody-somervilleHellow, CAn you provide us with a link to your forum profile?04:42
HellowSure, sec04:42
Hellowhttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=44041304:43
cody-somervilleHellow, Well, it appears you've became quite active in the last little while. However, we usual look for both sustained and significant contribution when approving new Ubuntu Members.04:44
eightyeightHellow: how long have you been using ubuntu?04:44
HellowAt or just over 2 years04:44
cody-somervilleHellow, whats been your favourite release thus far?04:45
Hellowcody-somerville: Hardy, it is the most stable out of them all IMHO04:45
eightyeightHellow: since dapper then? what would you say would be the #1 improvement ubuntu can make?04:45
Helloweightyeight: Probably faster package updating04:46
eightyeightHellow: with apt/dpkg?04:46
Helloweightyeight: yes04:46
eightyeightHellow: do you see yourself fitting in well to help make that a realization? maybe development? or bug testing?04:47
Helloweightyeight: Pretty well, I am good at rooting out bugs in software04:47
HellowI also see need for improvement in Ubuntu's boot time04:49
eightyeightHellow: looking over your application, we're going to want to see a bit more before putting in our support. get into bug work, or development, as well as help out in the forums and irc. keep it doc'd, and you're well on your way to approval04:50
Hellowok, thanks :)04:50
pleia2keep up the good work Hellow :)04:50
eightyeighti think you have a roadmap to follow, and you seem to have the heart to make it happen. keep it up04:51
vorianthanks for your contributions Hellow, we look forward to seeing you again soon.04:51
cody-somervilleHellow, thanks for coming out tonight Hellow. Hopefully we can play a game of Netrek soon! :)04:51
HellowHeh, ok, thanks guys :)04:51
cody-somervilleHellow, Is Netrek GPL?04:51
Hellowits under a BSD-ish license04:51
cody-somervilleHellow, I'd be happy to help you get Netrek into the Ubuntu archive then :)04:52
HellowI think it already is04:52
Hellownetrek-client-cow should be in04:52
* cody-somerville doesn't see it but then again he is on Hardy04:52
cody-somervilleHellow, ah, its in Jaunty04:52
Hellowah, wait, for jaunty it is in :)04:52
Rocket2DMnhehe yeah i just checked, it is only in jaunty04:52
cody-somervilleWe should bug NCommander to backport it to Hardy :)04:53
nhandlerWhat is the source package called? I'm not seeing it in rmadison04:53
NCommanderuh oh ...04:53
* NCommander runs from the crackports04:53
cody-somervillenhandler, netrek-client-cow in multiverse04:53
nhandlercody-somerville: Ok, now I see it04:54
Hellownhandler: not sure, I was not the person that put it in, a Debian package manager did it04:54
cody-somervilleAnyhow, thanks to everyone for coming out tonight. I believe this concludes this meeting! :)04:54
Rocket2DMnCool, thank you to the council for your time04:54
nhandlerHellow: Barry deFreese put it in debian ;)04:54
andresmujicathanks !!!04:54
cody-somervilleCongratulations to everyone and big thanks for your work to help make Ubuntu and the Ubuntu community rock!04:54
MikeB later all04:54
andresmujicaUbuntu rocks!!04:54
Rocket2DMnit's past my bedtime, no way i'm getting up at 6am tomorrow04:55
Hellowlater04:55
andresmujicagood night!04:55
vorian!info netrek-client-cow jaunty04:55
ubottunetrek-client-cow (source: netrek-client-cow): client for netrek online game. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 3.2.8-1 (jaunty), package size 198 kB, installed size 616 kB04:55
vorianfwiw04:55
vorian:)04:55
nhandlerWait, if it is under the bsd, why is it in multiverse?04:56
persiaBecause of some miscellaneous issues that are leftover because it's *so* old.04:56
persiaUpstream is working on it actively, in cooperation with the Games team.04:57
robb_awayThat was a good meeting guys..i'll be back! (and yeah that was my 'im gonna be back on that list' kind of back)04:58
davidmthanks again everyone05:00
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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Foundation Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Jan 17:00: QA Team | 07 Jan 18:00: Edubuntu meeting | 08 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 08 Jan 13:00: Desktop Team | 08 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java
evandhi16:00
cjwatsongute nachmittag16:00
robbiew?16:01
liwhi16:01
* mvo waves16:01
cjwatson("good afternoon")16:01
james_whello16:01
robbiewhi all16:01
robbiewlet's get this thing rollin!16:01
robbiew#startmeeting16:01
MootBotMeeting started at 10:01. The chair is robbiew.16:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:01
TheMusoHey folks.16:01
slangasekmorning16:02
robbiewgood EARLY morning TheMuso16:02
robbiewI've posted the agenda here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/010716:02
doko__hi16:02
robbiewsorry for not sending out via email...slipped through the cracks...of my mind16:03
robbiew[TOPIC] Release Manager Backup(s)16:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Release Manager Backup(s)16:03
robbiewso our good citizen, Steve, has been called to jury duty16:03
robbiewwell..at least to selection16:03
liwrobbiew, Steve Langasek?16:04
slangasekyeah16:04
robbiewhe could be gone for 30+ days, if selected16:04
robbiewand we won't know until after this friday16:04
robbiewobviously, we need a contingency plan if he's selected16:05
robbiewand cjwatson has enough on his plate....:)16:05
liwall the people well suited for this probably have a lot on their plates already16:06
robbiewthis is true16:06
mvomaybe it can be a shared thing?16:06
mvosomeone still need to lead it of course16:06
robbiewyes...I'm thinking that's the correct approach16:06
robbiewmvo^16:06
cjwatsonit can and should be shared if possible, but as you say somebody needs to have prime responsibility otherwise things have a habit of slipping through cracks16:07
liwso what stuff exactly does the backup RM(s) need to do?16:07
cjwatsonthere are two major sets of things happening while Steve's away16:08
cjwatsonone is jaunty alphas 3 and 416:08
cjwatsonthe other is Ubuntu 8.04.216:08
cjwatsonMilestoneProcess and PointReleaseProcess respectively outline the tasks that need to be performed16:08
cjwatsonI would suggest that, if Steve's selected, different people ought to take charge of those two tasks, since they will have other things they'll need to be doing at the same time16:09
robbiewand I assume certain access rights to the archive are needed16:09
robbiew+116:09
cjwatsonnot so vital for the milestones, I'd say, but it would be quite tedious driving .2 without being an archive admin16:10
doko__I can help out with cd size control, but I'm not memeber of ubuntu-archive16:10
mvoI can help with the milestone stuff, but I'm not archive admin16:10
liwlooks to me like the point release stuff is the more critical of these -- it'd be bad to screw up an LTS update16:11
robbiewindeed16:11
robbiewwho here has archive admin...besides slangasek and cjwatson?16:11
mvolts-update> I can (and will) do upgrade testing16:11
robbiewKeybuk?...do you?...are you even here? :P16:12
cjwatsonI would be happy to induct one more archive admin for this on condition that the person in question takes on a significant chunk of archive admin load in general16:12
KeybukI do, but I'm somewhat out of date to the mechanics of it16:12
KeybukI most notably don't have access to the CD Image machines16:12
cjwatsoncdimage is an easier group to add people to, and also relatively easy for somebody to teleoperate (i.e. you could get a cdimage slave to do things for you)16:13
TheMusoI have some cdimage experience, since I've played with it locally, but I don't feel up to offering my help to do any of these release related tasks.16:14
cjwatsonI am entirely happy to be teleoperated by people during my normal hours16:14
evandI might be a suitable slave.16:14
robbiewok, so let's do this: Keybuk and mvo can work on the LTS..with Keybuk taking lead16:15
robbiewevand and doko take the Jaunty alphas16:15
evandI'm not an archive admin, if that's required.16:16
slangasekaside from the LTS publishing proper, which it's conceivable I might be able to make myself available for, the main point release management tasks to be addressed are: chasing the list of outstanding SRUs from http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html and getting everything into -updates that should be (in particular, the kernel, though I might finish that up this week); following up with QA regarding hardware recertification; g16:16
cjwatsoncut off at "recertification; g"16:16
Keybukrobbiew: when is the LTS?16:16
cjwatsonit's on the calendar16:16
slangaseketting the alternate CDs downto size; and coordinating full testing of the (small set of) 8.04.2 ISOs16:17
robbiew01/2216:17
Keybukwhat needs to be done for it?16:17
liwslangasek, and generally pulling and pushing people towards the release, and being available for questions 24/7?16:17
cjwatsonthere's a langpack update due which is expected to deal with much of the alternate CD bloat16:17
cjwatsonwe are relatively constrained in what we can do for .2 CD bloat problems, by comparison with jaunty, of course16:17
slangasekliw: it's better for your sanity if you anticipate the questions instead and pre-empt them during your work hours ;)16:17
cjwatsonevand: I don't think it's required16:18
cjwatson(useful, maybe, but if need be you can get somebody on the phone)16:18
evandnoted; thanks16:19
robbiewI should point out that slangasek "may" be able to assist during his evening hours (if selected)...assuming he's not in a sequestered jury16:19
slangasekwhich there's been no indication of so far16:19
mvo"sequestered" ?16:19
cjwatsonlocked away with no communication16:19
* Keybuk is trying to imagine what kind of cases they get in Portland16:19
* mvo nods16:20
robbiewlol16:20
KeybukThe Trial of the Portland Latte Thief16:20
cjwatsonKeybuk: crimes against fashion16:20
slangasekKeybuk: probably just a murder, no need for sequestration :)16:20
robbiew[ACTION] Keybuk and mvo to handle LTS release16:20
MootBotACTION received:  Keybuk and mvo to handle LTS release16:20
robbiew[ACTION] doko and evand to handle jaunty alphas 1 & 216:20
MootBotACTION received:  doko and evand to handle jaunty alphas 1 & 216:20
cjwatsoncorrection: 3 and 416:21
robbiewheh16:21
robbiewright16:21
robbiew[ACTION] doko and evand to handle jaunty alphas 3&4, not 1&216:21
MootBotACTION received:  doko and evand to handle jaunty alphas 3&4, not 1&216:21
robbiewso speaking of Jaunty16:21
cjwatsonSteve is here until at least Thu, so if you're worried about what you may need to do, pick his brains while you can16:21
robbiew[TOPIC] Distro Sprint16:22
MootBotNew Topic:  Distro Sprint16:22
robbiewhas everyone booked their travel?16:22
* mvo takes the train16:22
robbiewbesides slangasek, of course16:22
* liw has flights16:22
* doko__ takes local transport16:22
cjwatsonI'm waiting for amity to send me a travel profile16:22
cjwatsonor rather a link for me to fill one in16:22
Keybukmine's booked16:22
evandnope, but am about to through Amity.  (I receieved my visa this morning and will be moving to the UK shortly)16:22
Keybukcjwatson: they didn't ask me to do that ;)16:23
TheMusoYes16:23
doko__did everybody confirm the cart driving? :p16:23
robbiewjames_w: ?16:23
liwcjwatson, wasn't there a link to their .doc file in the canonical wiki?16:23
cjwatsonKeybuk: the canonical wiki said to, so I was obedient16:23
cjwatsonliw: would rather fill it in online; anyway I've got it now16:23
Keybukdoko__: ?16:23
robbiewKeybuk: doko sent an email out about go-karts16:24
cjwatsonevand: visa> yay16:24
doko__Keybuk: see my email on the distro list16:24
Keybukah, got it16:24
james_wbooked yesterday16:24
slangasekI saw something in the mail about not drinking, I lost track after that16:24
evand\o/16:24
robbiewjames_w: cool, thanks16:24
Keybukdoko__: can we have paintball guns on the carts? :p16:25
robbiew[TOPIC] Jaunty Feature List Summary16:25
MootBotNew Topic:  Jaunty Feature List Summary16:25
doko__Keybuk: we all have except for you16:25
robbiewhttp://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/UDS/December2008/Summary16:25
MootBotLINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/UDS/December2008/Summary16:25
Keybukdoko__: oh, well, that'll be fun too16:25
robbiewso I tried to pull together a list of everything i "think" was discussed at UDS16:26
robbiewinvolving our team16:26
Keybukrobbiew: the dbus-restarts stuff is realistically not going to go anywhere for a while16:26
robbiewok16:26
Keybukit needs upstream buy-in and they've kinda expoloded16:26
robbiewanyone else have something on this list, that they know cannot be done for Jaunty?16:27
cjwatsonmost of the ones that I was expecting to have a hand in are pending spec write-ups16:27
cjwatsonso I *really* need people to get those done sooner rather than later, please?16:27
cjwatsonotherwise I'm going to have some very long video-watching sessions to do :)16:28
slangasekwhich specs are you waiting on, specifically?16:28
liwnow that I'm back from vacation, I'll get the cruft-remover spec finished asap; I'd appreciate feedback on it, once I've given it a once-over16:28
mvoliw: ping me when you think it needs review, I'm happy to give feedback16:29
liwmvo, cool, thanks16:29
cjwatsonslangasek: archive-reorganization, server-installer-partitioning, server-installer-beautification/server-pre-installation, and grub2-by-default16:30
cjwatsonat least those are the major ones16:30
slangasekok16:30
Keybukboot-performance needs writing too :-/16:30
cjwatsonoem-config-server was a bit rough last I checked, but I largely know what's needed there anyway16:30
robbiewthe plan is that once we settle on the features we plan to deliver, to track them here:16:31
robbiewhttps://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Foundations/9.0416:31
cjwatsonthere is apparently a call next Thursday in which I'm going to have to talk intelligently about archive-reorganization, so I need it particularly16:31
slangasekcjwatson: fwiw, based on feedback from the kernel team the scope of grub2-by-default ought to be scaled back to "make it an option in the installer, and collect all the feedback we can on various hardware"16:31
cjwatsonslangasek: ok, that seems reasonable16:31
slangasekarchive-reorg has no drafter listed16:32
robbiewevand: I still need to setup that call16:32
slangasekI don't think I have notes from that one, was there a gobby doc?16:32
robbiewevand: OEM tracking ID, right?16:33
cjwatsonthere seem to be very rough notes in the wiki page16:33
evandrobbiew: ja16:33
robbiewslangasek: the gobby doc notes were moved into the wiki16:33
cjwatsonthey look rather inconclusive though16:33
robbiewslangasek: by persia16:33
cjwatsonthat said: given that I'm going to have to watch the video for that session particularly anyway, maybe I should just draft that while I'm there16:34
cjwatson(archive-reorg)16:34
persiaThe gobby document was largely inconclusive.  Someone will need to review the video and update with other notes.  Probably needs celso'd input as well for the Soyuz bits.16:34
* cjwatson sets himself as drafter16:35
robbiewok...moving on to the next topic16:35
robbiew[TOPIC] Alpha 3 bugs16:35
MootBotNew Topic:  Alpha 3 bugs16:35
robbiewhttp://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=221116:36
MootBotLINK received:  http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=221116:36
robbiewheh...only two16:36
robbiewok...can probably move on :/16:36
robbiewhttp://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs16:37
MootBotLINK received:  http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+bugs16:37
robbiewhere's the targeted bugs list...just to keep it fresh in your minds :)16:37
robbiewand I should bring up the effort by the QA team16:38
robbiewhttp://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/QA/BugFixing/TeamBugLists16:38
MootBotLINK received:  http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/QA/BugFixing/TeamBugLists16:38
robbiewhas everyone....or anyone seen this?16:38
cjwatsonthat list=2211 link shows 50 bugs for me16:39
cjwatsonoh, never mind, cut-and-paste error of some kind16:39
mvohm, I see 50 too16:39
robbiewcjwatson: 50 for the jaunty targeted bugs16:40
robbiewright?16:40
cjwatsonhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=2211 may actually be more representative at this point16:40
cjwatsonmvo: it turned out that it had got cut-and-pasted as %253A rather than %3A16:40
robbiewwhoops...sorry16:40
cjwatsonI have been filling in http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/QA/BugFixing/TeamBugLists, and complaining about how nobody else has been :)16:40
robbiewthe links in the agenda should work16:40
robbiewcjwatson: yeah...I'm hoping it's because of the break, but I'll be sure to bring it up in the next platform managers call16:41
cjwatsonoh, maybe not, is TeamBugLists not the same as the qa-jaunty-foundations tag?16:41
robbiewsame16:41
cjwatsonhttp://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/jaunty-buglist.html16:41
MootBotLINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/jaunty-buglist.html16:41
cjwatsonit's all mvo and me so far16:41
slangasekshould the correct URL perhaps be linked from https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/QA/BugFixing/TeamBugLists, since I don't see that there's a link to a bug list anywhere on there?16:42
cjwatsonslangasek: it's linked, but described as "kernel target list"16:42
cjwatsonI'll update the wiki16:42
robbiewok, so we can move on...but just want folks to keep the bug fixing effort in mind16:43
cjwatsonI've been tagging some things pet-bug as well, per the distro-team thread on the subject16:43
robbiewbefore moving to far on16:44
robbiewhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs?field.milestone:list=142516:44
robbieware the 8.04.2 bugs...I "think"16:44
slangasekyes16:44
robbiewwhew16:44
robbiewi have been asked to provide a "8.04.2 manifest detail"16:45
robbiewand from what cjwatson and slangasek have told me, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/hardy-changes/16:46
cjwatsonis that code for "release notes", or a more comprehensive summary of all changes?16:46
robbiewis pretty much it16:46
cjwatsonthere are several levels of detail we could use here16:46
robbiewwell, the OEM folks want to know what's going into the release16:46
slangasekfwiw, from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs?field.milestone:list=1425 what's most relevant at this point are the bugs that are already marked 'fix committed', because these are the ones in progress in -proposed that we're trying to see get through to -updates in time (i.e., this week and next)16:46
robbiewfrom a fixes/updates point of view16:46
cjwatsonhardy-changes is a good source, but it would require some distillation, given the existence of failed-verification updates16:46
robbiewright16:47
slangasekwe could use some more people helping to verify that these bugs are fixed16:47
Keybukrobbiew: I think the only suitable answer to that is: "Raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens"16:47
slangasek59695 should be an easy one for folks to help with, if they have hardy on raw hardware16:47
robbiewKeybuk: heh16:47
cjwatsonI could spend some time preparing a summary of changes16:48
robbiewcjwatson: thanks....feel free to recruit others if need be16:48
robbiew;)16:48
cjwatsonit won't be final until at least the 16th16:48
robbiew[ACTION] cjwatson to prepare summary of changes for 8.04.216:49
MootBotACTION received:  cjwatson to prepare summary of changes for 8.04.216:49
robbiewright16:49
robbiew[TOPIC] Sponsorship Queue16:49
MootBotNew Topic:  Sponsorship Queue16:49
robbiewmoving on...cause time is ticking16:49
robbiewI'm sure all saw dholbach's note today16:50
robbiewjust wanted to bring it up for reminder in the meeting16:50
robbiew[TOPIC] PDR Objectives16:50
MootBotNew Topic:  PDR Objectives16:50
robbiewI still owe some folks guidelines on these (per request)16:51
robbiewbut for those who don't need any, just a reminder to put them into the tool16:51
* robbiew finally figured out what needed to be done to open up that section :/16:51
liwrobbiew, I don't mind getting some guidelines, if you have a generic set16:51
robbiewheh..sure16:51
* robbiew just dug threw some old "former employer" notes...got some good stuff :)16:52
TheMusorobbiew: Afaicr I was able to put mine in, so I am not sure if the issue was before I did or after now... SO I am now wondering whether mine went in.16:52
robbiewTheMuso: you're good to go!16:52
* mvo is interessted in those notes as well16:52
robbiewmvo: I'll send guidelines to all16:52
robbiewmakes it easier ;)16:53
robbiewjust "guidelines" not anything forced16:53
robbiew[TOPIC] Ubuntu EC216:53
MootBotNew Topic:  Ubuntu EC216:53
robbiewhttp://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/features/ec216:53
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/features/ec216:53
robbiewso we've all been asked to investigate how we can leverage the Amazon EC2 cloud internally16:54
robbiewI think cjwatson and mvo had a good idea for testing updates16:54
Keybukthe what?16:54
robbiewlol16:54
cjwatsonthe thing described in the link immediately above :P16:54
* cjwatson replaces Keybuk with a context-free parser16:54
Keybukcjwatson: it used many many buzzwords without actually explaining anything16:55
KeybukUbuntu Server on Amazon gives you the power of Ubuntu combined with the flexibility of Amazon's cloud computing service. Ubuntu's modularity, virtualization capabilities, range of applications and optimised performance make it the perfect solution if you're deploying applications on Amazon's Elastic Computing (EC2) cloud.16:55
Keybuk...16:55
* robbiew forwards note from mark16:55
Keybukerr, bingo?16:55
cjwatsonmy internal model of EC2 is "compute farm"16:55
slangaseklittle fluffy cloud computing16:55
robbiewright...just another term for Grid..or Utility computing16:56
Keybukthe problem may be that I genuinely don't know what Cloud Computing is :-/16:56
mvoone idea that cjwatson brought up was to port the upgrader tester to it, I have no idea (yet) how much effort it is to port it16:56
liwso this is about using amazon's servers and disk space to do ubuntu development? like, say, running piuparts on everything and backwards?16:56
Keybukis it like SETI at Home?16:56
cjwatsonslangasek: hmm. uninstallability testing is really slow for universe/multiverse. do you think it might make sense to run that somewhere other than cocoplum?16:56
mvoliw: that is my understanding at least :)16:56
slangasekKeybuk: no, it's like SETI that you rent an ephemeral slice from a datacenter for16:56
cjwatsonliw: piuparts would be a good thing to run on EC2, I think, yes16:56
Keybukslangasek: how's this different to running things in our own datacenter?16:57
Keybukis it just a different datacenter?16:57
liwnot that piuparts needs a really large amount of resources, hmm16:57
cjwatsonAmazon have more computers than we do and can bring vms up and down very easily16:57
slangasekKeybuk: finer grained resource committments, less elmo grumpiness16:57
robbiewKeybuk: scalable CPU, storage, and bandwidth...on demand16:57
james_wgrumpy and other mass merging type things that have been discussed could be a candidate16:57
mvoif it would/could provide vm snapshots too that would be cool/useful16:57
cjwatsonand if you overflow the resource limits of one computer then you don't get wedged until IS can find a bigger one16:58
robbiewhttp://wiki.canonical.com/CoP/EngineeringManagement/AmazonEC216:58
MootBotLINK received:  http://wiki.canonical.com/CoP/EngineeringManagement/AmazonEC216:58
robbiewwe are internally tracking our uses here16:58
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: QA Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Jan 18:00: Edubuntu meeting | 08 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 08 Jan 13:00: Desktop Team | 08 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java
Keybukwould we run things like MoM on it?16:58
slangasekcjwatson: uninstallability testing w/ britney, or?16:58
cjwatsonslangasek: aye16:58
cjwatsonKeybuk: I believe that's possible, although some consideration of where to put the persistent big blob of data would be worthwhile16:59
slangasekcjwatson: could run it elsewhere; would still benefit from updating to a newer britney16:59
Keybukcjwatson: you don't get disk space?16:59
robbiewanyway...feel free to reply to the forwarded mail that I just sent...and we can discuss it that way16:59
cjwatsonRick Clark should be able to answer questions or point you to somebody who can16:59
cjwatsonKeybuk: I wasn't sure how persistent the disk space was so was hedging :)16:59
robbiewI can also help...have played with it over the break16:59
Keybuksounds a bit like Pokémon to me <g>17:00
slangasekcjwatson: would rather spend my time on merging the new britney instead of sorting through the security implications of letting something in a cloud publish the results via scp17:00
robbiew#endmeeting17:00
MootBotMeeting finished at 11:00.17:00
cjwatsonslangasek: OK17:00
robbiewdid everyone receive their Foundations Beer Mugs?17:00
TheMusoNow back to making sure my procmail rules for mail aren't broken. :p17:00
TheMusorobbiew: Yes, thanks heaps.17:00
robbiewin one piece?17:00
james_wyes, thanks robbiew17:00
evandindeed, thanks!17:00
slangasekyes, thanks. :)17:00
mvoyes, thanks robbiew17:01
robbiewKeybuks met with an unfortunate accident along route :P17:01
cjwatsonbeer mug> yes :-)17:01
robbiewKeybuk: another should arrive ;)17:01
Keybuk\o/17:01
robbiewI have a cool shirt with the logo...was going to bring to the distro sprint17:01
robbiewI'll shoot out a note asking for sizes17:02
liwthanks for the mug and the meeting17:02
robbiewanyway...I think another meeting is starting17:02
robbiewso thanks all :)17:02
mvothanks!17:02
evandthanks17:02
Keybukthanks! :D17:02
randarobbiew if you want i can help you with the sizes17:02
henoQA meeting next ...17:03
* pedro_ waves17:03
* ogasawara waves17:04
* bdmurray waves17:04
henocr3, schwuk, sbeattie, ara: meeting ping17:04
schwukheno: here17:05
sbeattiehey17:05
araheno: here!17:05
henook, let's start!17:07
heno#startmeeting17:07
MootBotMeeting started at 11:07. The chair is heno.17:07
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]17:07
henoagenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings17:07
heno[TOPIC] Jaunty spec review17:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Jaunty spec review17:08
henoagain, let's run down the schedule at http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-jaunty/bavorr/17:08
henoSome still need drafting while others are waiting on review (normally from me)17:09
henoqa-upstream-kernel-bugs is approved17:10
henoschwuk: can you review the checbox specs as a group for us?17:10
cr3heno: meeting pong17:11
schwukheno: review their status here you mean?17:12
henoyes please17:13
henoschwuk: you were going to write a UI spec that ties together several others for one thing17:13
heno(though I realise you have an urgent testing task ATM)17:14
schwukOK. All five from UDS are still drafting, but most should be complete this week.17:14
schwukIn addition - as you said - a sixth UI/UE spec is being drafted based on conversations between yourself, cr3 and I17:14
henook, please ping me when I should review17:15
schwukheno: will do17:15
heno* qa-cert-testing-proposed - cr3?17:15
cr3heno: one moment, trying to lookup the blueprint17:17
henostill needs more design an implementation details17:18
cr3heno: absolutely, I didn't notice how empty it looked. on my todo list17:19
henook thanks17:19
heno* qa-needs-packaging-bugs is approved17:19
heno* qa-portal and package-status-pages really need new formulations and an updated focus for Jaunty17:20
ogasawaraI'll clean both of those up17:21
henowe recycled the old specs but they need a fair bit of change17:21
henothanks ogasawara - let me know if you need more detailed input from me17:22
ogasawaraheno: for the package-status-pages - I did update with our goals for jaunty but I wasn't sure if I should remove what we designed for Hardy17:22
henoperhaps move it to a hardy section at the bottom of the spec?17:22
ogasawaraheno: sounds good, I'll organize it better17:23
heno* jaunty-regression-management needs drafting altogether17:23
sbeattieheno: yeah, sorry, I'll get going on that.17:24
henothanks. I think the meat will be in qa-jaunty-regression-tracker17:24
henosbeattie: is that one ready for review?17:25
sbeattieheno: probably not.17:26
sbeattieI'll get those straightened out this week.17:26
henook, thanks17:26
henoit seems fewer specs than I thought are blocked on me :)17:27
heno* qa-bug-patch-workflow17:27
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: QA Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Jan 18:00: Edubuntu meeting | 08 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 08 Jan 13:00: Desktop Team | 08 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 13 Jan 21:00: LoCo Council
henoneeds use cases and some drafting17:27
bdmurrayyes, I'm working on it17:28
henothanks17:28
henothat reminds me - you wanted to suggest a new QA spec template17:28
henoEveryone, feel free to bend the template, leaving out sections as appropriate17:29
bdmurrayI'm not sure a whole template is necessary, perhaps just a QA spec guideline as not every bit of the existing spec template applies to all specs17:29
henorelease notes is often not releb17:29
heno*relevant for us17:29
henofor example17:30
henobdmurray: can you put up a new proposed template?17:30
henohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/Template say17:30
bdmurrayheno: sure17:31
henogreat, we'll review next week17:31
heno* qa-gnome-desktop-testing - approved17:32
heno* qa-jaunty-isotracker17:32
henoneeds drafting and the LP url is broken on the wiki17:33
henostgraber: do you have the correct URL?17:33
henook, it's https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website/+spec/qa-jaunty-isotracker17:34
henohe may be at lunch17:35
heno* qa-hardware-test-result-publication17:35
heno... needs drafting by me :)17:36
heno* qa-sru-process-streamline17:36
henopedro_, sbeattie and I are working through that this week17:37
henoalong with the hardy.2 SRU testing17:37
heno* hardware-certification-kvm-access17:37
henoagain, needs drafting by me17:38
heno* qa-testscase-wiki17:38
henoara: please see my comment in the spec17:39
henoit needs some clarification17:39
araheno: yes, I will work on it this week17:39
araheno: some stuff is quite close to implementation, therefore I asked schwuk for a little help17:40
heno* smoketesting needs some review by me17:40
araschwuk: have you received the invitation?17:40
henoara: close to implementation? such as plugins?17:41
araheno: yes17:41
henohave you been secretly hacking on moin? ;)17:42
araheno: no, no, that is why I need schwuk ;-)17:42
henobeats talking with relatives over the holidays I guess :)17:42
henook, cool17:42
araheno: to ask him his opinion on what can be done17:42
henoright. see my links to existing plugins on the moin site too17:43
schwukara: received and accepted17:44
henoI'll update the summary on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/17:44
henoso we can track these a bit better17:44
henonext ...17:44
heno[TOPIC] Hardy point release testing17:44
MootBotNew Topic:  Hardy point release testing17:44
henoThis includes smoke testing (davmor2), auto-install testing (cr3) and SRU testing (sbeattie)17:45
henodavmor2: you said you would start smoke testing this week?17:46
=== ember_ is now known as ember
heno(oh, and ISO testing - QA team)17:46
cr3heno: so I plan to have automated image testing this week and be prepared for the full manual testing close to release17:46
henocr3: how is your progress on getting images tested?17:47
cr3heno: we should see some image test results appear today.17:48
henoif filed bug 314726 to track the issues17:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 314726 in certify-web "Image testing fails after introduction of 'actions'" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31472617:48
henocould you add some details to that?17:48
cr3sure, I didn't notice that bug17:49
henojust filed it today17:49
henothanks17:49
cr3heno: and it's not "actions" but "activities", "actions" are something else :)17:49
henosbeattie: you were focusing on kernel SRU testing yesterday?17:49
henocr3: hm buggy bug :)17:50
sbeattieyes, I verified a kvm fix, and was setting up a xen environment, as a few of the kernel SRUs are xen related.17:50
henook, great17:51
henowe'll talk through the bugs in detail on various calls17:51
henoscheduled for this week and next17:51
henowe should make a list of bugs that we don't have HW to test17:52
sbeattieokay17:52
henocr3: can you join sbeattie and me on a call on friday to look at such a list?17:52
sbeattieis progress being made on visibility into what hardware the cert lab has available?17:52
henoschwuk: you've worked on that a bit17:54
henothere are some lists on the C.c wiki, but there is not enough device detail AFAIK17:54
cr3heno: sure, I look forward to it17:55
sbeattiealso, specifically with the kernel, would it be useful to highlight or otherwise indicate the upstream stable update bugs, in part to focus attention on others?17:55
henosbeattie: I'll send you a link17:55
sbeattieheno: great, thanks.17:55
schwukheno: basic make/model lists on the test coverage reports for Intrepid RC and Final.17:56
henosbeattie: could be - on the SRU list page?17:56
sbeattieyeah17:56
sbeattieI'm just trying to figure out what we should do with those.17:57
cr3heno: what time is the call on Friday so that I can update my calendar?17:57
henocr3: 18.00UTC17:57
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Edubuntu meeting Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 08 Jan 13:00: Desktop Team | 08 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 13 Jan 21:00: LoCo Council
henosbeattie: please add your thoughts on that to the SRU streamline spec17:58
henoFinally: hardy.2 candidate images are projected for the 19th17:58
sbeattieexamples include bug 301608, bug 301632, and bug 30163417:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 301608 in linux "[Hardy] Update kernel to Linux 2.6.24.4" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30160817:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 301632 in linux "[Hardy] Update kernel to Linux 2.6.24.5" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30163217:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 301634 in linux "[Hardy] Update kernel to Linux 2.6.24.6/7" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30163417:58
henoit's only Ubuntu this time17:58
henoso the testing burden is not too big17:59
henoany other business for the meeting?18:00
araI am just thinking about preparing testing days focused on testing specific new features before it is too late (RC...). I don't know how it is the best way to collect the features that need some testing. I was thinking on sending an email to ubuntu-dev list asking devs to include their specs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/UbuntuTestingDay/Features so we can organize them better18:00
arawhat do you guys think? it is the ubuntu-dev list the place to announce this?18:01
henoI think so18:02
pedro_yes indeed18:02
henothere is also http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Coverage/NewFeatures18:02
henoshould the wiki.u.c page be used instead18:02
henothat might be more appropriate18:03
araheno: ok, I will send the email tomorrow and will try to lobby a bit also on the irc channels18:03
henook, great18:04
henolet's wrap it18:04
henothanks everyone!18:04
arathanks, bye!18:04
heno#endmeeting18:04
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:04.18:04
henooh, I forgot: there is a QA/LP voice meeting next Monday18:05
bdmurraywhat time?18:05
henohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/LaunchpadBugsUbuntuQAMeeting18:06
henosays 18.00utc18:06
henoanyone can sign up18:06
LaserJock#startmeeting18:08
MootBotMeeting started at 12:08. The chair is LaserJock.18:08
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:08
LaserJockok, time for Edubuntu meeting!18:08
LaserJockwho all is here?18:08
sbalneavPresent@18:10
* sbalneav waves hand frantically so teacher LaserJock will see him18:10
Lnshey sbalneav, give me some of your tots18:11
LaserJocknubae1: here?18:11
sbalneavLns: No problem.  I also have some homemade lasagna to trade.  Whatcha got?18:11
pips1hi18:11
sbalneavHey pips118:11
Lnssbalneav: mmmm.. lasagna.. *drool*18:12
LaserJockhi RichEd18:12
pips1hey sbalneav18:13
RichEdhi LaserJock, sbalneav, pips118:13
LaserJockok, the agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda18:13
LaserJock[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda18:14
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda18:14
sbalneavHey RichEd18:14
LaserJockok, so there's a number of topics for today18:16
* stgraber waves18:17
LaserJocksorry, I was just putting some final changes into the strategy doc18:17
LaserJock[TOPIC] Review of the Edubuntu Strategy18:18
MootBotNew Topic:  Review of the Edubuntu Strategy18:18
LaserJock[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument18:19
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/StrategyDocument18:19
LaserJockOK, so I've filled in the strategy doc some more18:19
sbalneavOK, I've joined the main fanboy team :)18:19
LaserJockmainly in the community and development sections18:19
sbalneavReading18:20
LaserJockI've tried to make it useful for a new person wanting to contribute18:20
LaserJocklots of links and descriptions, etc.18:20
LnsLaserJock: I'd like to clarify that Edubuntu is designed for grades K-12 (+Uni?), correct? Not a certain age range, but all encompassing education-based OS?18:21
stgraberlooks really good18:21
LaserJockit's been somewhat evolving as our understand of Edubuntu is evolving18:21
LaserJock*understanding18:21
LaserJockI *think* we're going to emphasis that Edubuntu is focused on Education18:22
LaserJocksort of wherever that leads18:22
LaserJockbut yeah, we could use more age clarification18:23
LaserJockwhich is something I wanted to ask RichEd about18:23
Lnsmmk18:23
RichEdLaserJock: yep ... education in all ages18:24
RichEdNot only K 1-12, but Uni, as well as Adult education18:24
LaserJockwe've been looking at dividing up into 4 categories18:24
LaserJockpreschool, primary, secondary, tertiary+18:24
nubae_Has the edubuntu= universe, ubunut-edu= main been mentioned yet?18:24
LaserJocknubae_: no18:24
RichEd^ by adult education I mean literacy and life skills etc.18:24
nubae_k, I'll let u lead into it18:25
nubae_:-)18:25
LaserJockRichEd: can we get some sort of official age range for each of the categories?18:25
LaserJockI'd like to be able to do "Primary (ages 6-11)" or something18:25
LaserJockjust to give some guidance18:25
RichEdwell can we get input from a few countries ?18:26
nubae_and categorise the apps that way on the site too18:26
RichEdwhat is the US age per grade ... LaserJock ?18:26
LnsYeah - and specific package installations.. nubae_ yeah18:26
LaserJockRichEd: perhaps an email to edubuntu-users ubuntu-education?18:26
nubae_what is the difference between those 2 lists?18:26
RichEdwell we have a range of countries here :)18:26
RichEdnubae_: what is the austrian age per grade ?18:27
jsenlaihello im jsen from indonesia18:27
nubae_actually, what me and Laserjock were discussion yesterday would make those 2 lists actually mean something18:27
LnsRichEd: in California anyway, Kindergarten starts at age 5 generally, and 1-12 just +1yr each18:27
RichEd(I'll dig up South Africa info as we speak)18:27
LaserJockin the US it's I think going to be preschool (<=5), primary (6-11), secondary (14-18), tertiary (18+)18:27
nubae_here, kindergarten is till 4 or 518:27
LaserJockhowever I don't know what ages 12-13 would be18:27
LaserJockwe have middle school or junior high18:27
LnsLaserJock: yeah18:28
LaserJockI don't know if they count as secondary or not18:28
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Edubuntu meeting Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 08 Jan 13:00: Desktop Team | 08 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 13 Jan 21:00: LoCo Council | 15 Jan 00:30: Forum Council
nubae_yeah, 11 might even be secondary18:28
LaserJockgenerally in junior high is where you split into subject clases18:28
LaserJockwhich would make sense to put it in secondary, IMO18:28
Lnsin US you don't normally hear "primary/secondary", it's "elementary" and "middle school/junior high" and "high school"18:28
nubae_yeah, we dont really have that here, just primary and secondary18:28
RichEdage 7 = grade 1 for south africa18:28
LaserJocknubae_: when does secondary start?18:29
nubae_11 or 1218:29
LaserJockk18:29
LaserJockwell, I know it's not going to be the same around the world18:29
RichEdnubae_: how are the years classified / labelled in Austria ?18:29
LaserJockbut I think having some sort of general guide would help18:29
RichEdLaserJock: we'll end up with a +/- 2 year tolerance I think18:29
Lnsage range might be most generic and flexible18:29
LaserJockRichEd: yeah, I think that might be fine18:30
LaserJockshall we ask edubuntu-users then? get a bit more broad input?18:30
RichEdwe've already established that GRADE 1-12 and K 1-12 are used in many countries18:30
RichEdand I'm guessing that for the countries that do not use GRADE or AGE, most teachers would know where the local classification maps against these18:31
LaserJockyeah18:31
nubae_RichEd, well we have primar and hochschule18:31
jsenlaianyone from indonesia here. pm me. i'm interested in implementing edubuntu at schools18:31
RichEdLaserJock: let's get a draft set of guidelines and send to edubuntu-users for comment / input ?18:32
LaserJockright18:32
LaserJockwho wants to do that?18:32
RichEdbetter to make a mark on the ground and call for correction than to ask for a bunfight18:32
LaserJockRichEd: right, totally agreed18:32
LaserJockany takers?18:33
RichEdLaserJock: I can send the mail18:33
LaserJock[ACTION] RichEd to send email seeking comment on age ranges for preschoo, primary, secondary, tertiary designations18:33
MootBotACTION received:  RichEd to send email seeking comment on age ranges for preschoo, primary, secondary, tertiary designations18:33
LaserJockok, so there's 2 things I wanted to discuss about the strategy doc18:34
LaserJock1) teams18:34
LaserJock2) Main and Universe, ubuntu-edu and edubuntu18:34
LaserJock1) I've put descriptions for the Launchpad teams we have18:35
RichEd[Action] I'll draft the South Africa and out the UK mapping tonight and send to the others here for input ... LaserJock for US, nubae_ for Austria18:35
RichEd[ACTION] I'll draft the South Africa and out the UK mapping tonight and send to the others here for input ... LaserJock for US, nubae_ for Austria18:35
nubae_I can do Spain and Germany too18:35
RichEdbah ... what am I doing wrong with the action command LaserJock ?18:35
LaserJock[ACTION] RichEd will draft the South Africa and out the UK mapping tonight and send to the others here for input ... LaserJock for US, nubae_ for Austria, Spain, Germany18:35
MootBotACTION received:  RichEd will draft the South Africa and out the UK mapping tonight and send to the others here for input ... LaserJock for US, nubae_ for Austria, Spain, Germany18:35
LaserJockRichEd: I'm chair i guess18:36
* RichEd loves democracy ;)18:36
nubae_lol18:36
LaserJockheh18:36
LaserJockok, so there are a couple questions about Launchpad teams18:36
nubae_its democracy that got us into this predicament in the first place ;-)18:36
LaserJock1) do we need an edubuntu-dev team18:36
nubae_I'd imagine without that not much is gonna be done package side18:37
LaserJockI have an Edubuntu Developers section in the doc but we've never had a team for it18:37
RichEdLaserJock: -dev may scare off some resources ... sounds too much like coding18:37
nubae_yup I said that too last time18:37
RichEdwhat about edubuntu-contributers18:37
LaserJockwell, it should scare some off I think18:37
LaserJocklong term, I think we're going to need a team to represent Edubuntu people who have real powers18:38
RichEdthat can cover dev as well as web contributors, application reviews etc.18:38
nubae_well if the dev team is just packagers and maintainers, and bug fixers fine18:38
nubae_well, shouldnt that be council?18:38
LaserJocki.e. they need to be official devs (able to upload) and will have access to seeds, PPAs, bzr18:38
RichEdnubae_: but too many small groups may split up and dilute momentum18:38
LaserJockthe edubuntu-members team is currently the catch-all contributor team18:39
RichEdI'd make edubuntu-dev a sub group of edubuntu-contributors, but keep the meetings / mails in one high level group18:39
nubae_RichEd, I didnt mean name them like that, was trying to define edubuntu-dev18:39
LaserJockand we have the other subject teams such as -doc, -bugs, -artwork18:39
RichEdedubuntu-members is a meaningless name to me ... never made much sense ...18:39
RichEdmany users try to join members18:40
nubae_yeah... on top of it there are 2 lists in launchpad18:40
LaserJockwell, it's a meaningfull name for Ubuntu people18:40
nubae_the ~edubuntu one18:40
nubae_and the edubuntu members one...18:40
LaserJockI had an idea for that18:40
LaserJockwhat we can do is this, make ~edubuntu an umbrella team18:41
RichEdPersonally I'd split at a high level into - edubuntu-users and edubuntu-contributors - as rallying points, and allow subdivision where it makes sense18:41
nubae_yeah LaserJock agreed18:41
LaserJockto which no people are subscribed directly18:41
LaserJockonly through teams18:41
LaserJockand then all the various Edubuntu teams are members of ~edubuntu18:41
LaserJockwe already have an ~edubuntu-users team18:41
LaserJockwhich is sort of a fanboy team18:41
nubae_yeah like a home page within launchpad18:41
nubae_for those wanting to get involved18:41
RichEdmy reasoning is that artwork / bugs / dev should be interested in keeping an eye out across the whole contribution effort18:41
nubae_right, they can like this18:42
LaserJockRichEd: what would edubuntu-contributors actually do?18:42
LaserJockwhat I need is a team to which I can give permissions to do things with18:42
RichEdedubuntu-users = people who consume18:42
LaserJockthat has a high-enough barrier18:43
RichEdedubuntu-contributors = people who help shape and build18:43
nubae_but really do we need another subdivision?18:43
nubae_cant we just define what contributions they do by the teams they joinb18:43
nubae_so they first join edubuntu, then they see the teams available18:43
nubae_and join those18:43
nubae_most would just join users, and the rest specifically what they wanna do18:44
LaserJockwell, there is a line where you can be a contributor, but not yet a "developer"18:44
RichEdnubae_: we want people to recommend & review applications, help with edu news stories etc.18:44
nubae_right, so we have -documentation -website, -artwork18:44
RichEdthis does not fit edubuntu-users and also edubuntu-dev sounds like coding only18:44
RichEd^ w.r.t. mail list18:44
nubae_oh, ure talking about mailing lists18:45
nubae_well contributors sounds fine yeah18:45
nubae_I thought we were talking launchpad teams18:45
LaserJockwell, I don't think we need any more mailing lists18:45
LaserJockI'm just talking LP teams18:45
nubae_no, but changing -devel mailing list to -contributors isnt a bad idea18:46
LaserJockyes it is :-)18:46
nubae_?18:46
nubae_why18:46
LaserJock*every* other similar list in ubuntu is -devel18:46
LaserJockwe already have history18:46
LaserJockit's generally a lot of pain to cater to people who can be educated that -devel is OK18:47
nubae_but the list is almost dead now18:47
Lnsi agree that -devel does sound coding-centric and might not appeal to those who want to contribute in other ways18:47
LaserJocknubae_: that's kind of irrelevant though18:48
nubae_well, part of the reason its dead is because the develop word is too strong...18:48
LaserJockno18:48
nubae_I bet there would be more people on it if it was called something else18:48
LaserJockit's because people don't get off their butt and help18:48
LaserJockhonestly, if people are turned off by -devel I don't want them18:48
LaserJockwe can explain  that -devel is not about coding and everything18:49
LaserJockit really shouldn't be a big deal18:49
nubae_u've been a dev too long18:49
LaserJockyes, and I've got years of experience doing this stuff18:49
nubae_u're not seeing this objectively :-)18:49
LaserJockit'd be a real pain to change the list18:49
RichEdLaserJock: launchpad should map onto mailing lists no ?18:49
LaserJockno18:50
LaserJockheavens no18:50
* RichEd looks up18:50
LaserJockif I had my way right now we'd have 1 list for all Education18:50
nubae_well, that would be fine for me18:50
LaserJock2 max18:50
nubae_that would be actually really good18:50
nubae_sugar did that...18:50
* Lns claps18:50
RichEdyep agreed ... what I meant was: mail list -users & -contributors18:50
LaserJockhowever, mailing lists are pretty secondary right now18:50
RichEdLP -users & -contributors18:51
RichEdthose as the two top levels18:51
LaserJockwell, I don't think that's right18:51
RichEdand LP for the sub-groups (no mailing list)18:51
LaserJockas we have -artwork, -doc, -bugs, etc.18:51
nubae_I think LP should have more groups18:51
nubae_ah... ok, yeah18:51
LaserJockthe edubuntu-devel list is about *all* development in Edubuntu18:51
LaserJockit's pretty easy to say that and people will get it18:52
nubae_what if for now, we moved all dev talk to the edubuntu-users lits18:52
nubae_list18:52
RichEdso LP -contributors would explain to people *where* they can contribute to what and which group to join18:52
LaserJockhmm18:52
RichEdnubae_: tech stuff can scare away some teachers18:52
nubae_ah maybe not, I'm talking crap18:52
LaserJockbut I think perhaps that's better done on edubuntu.org18:52
* RichEd installs crap filter 2.118:52
LaserJockrather than a contributors list18:53
LaserJocks/list/LP team/18:53
nubae_RichEd, we should really have 1 main umbrella LP18:53
nubae_the one currently known as ~edubuntu18:53
RichEdLaserJock: okay my last comment ... do we not want to co-ordinate all contributors around the time of UDS and release ?18:53
RichEdto pull all the pieces together18:53
LaserJockRichEd: I think that would be done via the edubuntu-devel mailing list18:54
nubae_yeah and or the umbrella site18:54
RichEdbut back to -devel does not sound like a place for art people and web people18:54
LaserJockI don't see an edubuntu-contributors LP team as serving a functional purpose exactly18:54
RichEda teacher and a student may be keen to help with art and soft stuff like reviews18:54
LaserJockthat's a culture issue, not a technical one, IMO18:54
LaserJockseriously, if you are a part of the community and you're scared of edubuntu-devel??18:55
nubae_the website would be best suited for that18:55
nubae_we can ease them into the -devel term from there18:55
nubae_from there and from launchpad umbrella18:55
LaserJockwe have pages on the website on how to get involved and about the community, we can clarify there fairly easily, IMO18:55
AhmuckLaserJock: i don't hang out in dev channels18:55
LaserJocksure you do18:55
Ahmucki find dev channels unfriendly18:55
LaserJock #edubuntu is a dev channel18:56
nubae_Ahmuck, edubuntu is a dev channel and so is ltsp18:56
nubae_;-)18:56
Ahmuckwell, sorta, because i have a tech background, but i've had students listen in on dev channels, and it does scare them18:56
Lnsdont scare him away from those chans! =p18:56
nubae_lol18:56
LaserJockright, dev channels can be scary18:56
nubae_launchpad can be scarier18:56
LaserJockbut if you're going to get in there and contribute you sorta gotta get over that18:56
nubae_and -devel lists terrifying18:56
Ahmuckagreed18:57
LaserJockwe can strive to have a friendly atmostphere and describer how open we are18:57
LaserJockbut I don't think changing names is going to really gain us much18:57
Ahmuckk18:57
LaserJocknow, I can see some reasoning for creating an edubuntu-contributors LP team18:57
nubae_ok, u're right, but easing them into the process from the website and from launchpad is a good idea18:57
LaserJockbut I'm sort of thinking that edubuntu-members covers that18:58
nubae_yeah it does18:58
LaserJockmy main thing right now is I think we need a -dev team18:58
LaserJockwe can create an edubuntu-contributors team later if it seems like there is a need18:58
Ahmuckwhat is dev however.  is it just code issues18:59
LaserJockI just hate creating LP teams (we already have a ton)18:59
Lnsthe website most definitely is crucial for explaining where to go, right on the index page, for all types of contributors..that's the first place people go when looking for info on edubuntu18:59
Ahmuckdoesn't dev also include user testing18:59
Ahmuckicons18:59
Ahmucketc.18:59
Lnsespecially school type people18:59
nubae_we need to take back the existing teams first18:59
LaserJockwell, I wouldn't say "code"18:59
LaserJockbut packaging18:59
nubae_there are kinda levels to it19:00
LaserJockbottom line, I need a team to control permissions19:00
LaserJocktraditionally we do that via a -dev team19:00
nubae_ok, well we're all ears19:00
LaserJockin the future the -dev team would hold the permissions to upload, adjust seeds, etc.19:00
LaserJockthe core practical work of getting Edubuntu done19:01
nubae_would they have to be MOTU?19:01
LaserJockright now, at least19:01
LaserJockin the future when the archive is reorganized it will be come the team that has control over all the edu apps19:02
LaserJockas MOTU and Core Dev will be different19:02
nubae_ok19:02
LaserJockright now we can use it for PPA and Universe seeds19:03
LaserJockmake sense?19:03
nubae_yep19:04
LaserJockok, the second part of the strategy doc I wanted to talk about was the app bundles19:04
LaserJockRichEd: nubae_ and I have been discussing a strategy for Main and Universe app bundles19:05
nubae_wait... shouldnt we action getting the launchpad teams?19:05
* RichEd listens19:05
LaserJock[ACTION] LaserJock to create edubuntu-dev Launchpad team and arrange for ~edubuntu as an umbrella team19:06
MootBotACTION received:  LaserJock to create edubuntu-dev Launchpad team and arrange for ~edubuntu as an umbrella team19:06
LaserJockRichEd: I've been struggling a bit with the "Edubuntu == community/project" thing19:07
LaserJockas it's practically kind of hard to separate out the community from the product19:07
LaserJockhowever, as we were discussion app bundles and expanding our offerings out to Universe19:07
LaserJockit kind of made sense to define "Edubuntu" as sort of the everything of education in Ubuntu19:08
nubae_or everything in main and universe19:08
nubae_talking appswise19:08
LaserJockand then focus the Ubuntu Education CD (using ubuntu-edu namespace) on the Canonical-supported (main)19:08
nubae_so ubuntu-edu would be just main19:08
LaserJockso in terms of naming convention, ubuntu-edu-primary would be the Canonical-supported Primary app bundle19:09
nubae_strict guidelines for choice, and well supported19:09
nubae_official support even :-.)19:09
LaserJockwhereas edubuntu-primary would be the community-supported Primary app bundle19:09
RichEdwell the official line from Canonical is that we cannot name any product edubuntu ... ubuntu education is the official choice19:09
nubae_righ19:09
nubae_totally fits in19:09
LaserJockRichEd: what is "product" though?19:10
LaserJockis that strictly the CD?19:10
RichEdthe .iso and marketing and documentation will not use the name edubuntu19:10
nubae_ubuntu education would refer to what is currently the edubuntu apps19:10
Ahmuckedubuntu-community19:10
nubae_yeah thats fine... a .iso would only be made from the ubuntu-edu apps19:10
nubae_and documentation, can be split into official and non-official19:11
LaserJockhmm, this is such a nasty situation :-)19:11
RichEd^ to explain the above official naming to the current audience ... we have many OEMs from far flung countries who are just now becoming interested in Ubuntu ... they have no exposure to Edubuntu19:11
LaserJockright19:11
nubae_right, thats why this is interesting19:12
nubae_edubuntu expands as a community, supporting universe apps19:12
LaserJockbut how much do the OEMs care about?19:12
nubae_ubuntu-edu remains the strict official support of edu apps in main19:12
RichEdCanonical want to get the OEMs to embrace Ubuntu as a default install, and then understand Ubuntu Education as a value-add option for Education marlets19:12
nubae_that all fits in with this plan19:12
LaserJockRichEd: right, but does that just contain what is supported by Canonical?19:13
LaserJockor is Canonical essentially claiming all of education in Ubuntu?19:13
RichEdwhat do mean by that ?19:13
nubae_is the set of edu apps in main, the official supported and named ubuntu-edu?19:13
LaserJockwhat I mean is, that while I understand what Canonical is doing I'm a bit sketchy on what that allows the community to do19:14
RichEdLaserJock: Canonical would not hamper or restrict community addition or customisation of Ubuntu Education add-on options19:14
nubae_ie, canonical will never support universe19:14
RichEdthey would just not promote Edubuntu as a brand to the OEM and blue chips19:14
LaserJockok, that makes total sense19:14
nubae_which is fine, since its not a brand, nor a distro19:14
LaserJockbut on a practical sense, what does that mean for existing Edubuntu users?19:15
Lnsit means they are now ubuntu-edu users? :)19:15
RichEdnote also that the OEMs and blue chips want rock solid supported stuff ... but teachers and students are free to add to their desktops once they have taken delivery19:15
LaserJockdo we just completely torch "Edubuntu" or can Edubuntu produce "Ubuntu Education" *as well as* non-Canonical stuff19:15
RichEdthe latter19:16
LaserJockso here's sort of how I'm viewing it, and please correct me if I'm getting this wrong19:16
nubae_so we stick to what we said before... ubuntu education = edu apps in main, edubuntu = edu apps in universe19:16
Ahmuckyou don't get points from teachers adding stuff to their desktops if it doesn't work properly19:16
RichEdthink of Ubuntu Education as the official base ... and further stuff as community value add19:16
RichEdAhmuck: lots of apps will work properly ... but may not find resources to officially support19:17
LaserJockwe can have Edubuntu produce the Ubuntu Education CD (and we'd need to I guess use Ubuntu Education branding for all that) but outside of that we can use "Edubuntu"?19:17
RichEdwe are not saying edubuntu contributions are dodgy ... just currently outside the official set - but allowed to be moved in given support and testing19:18
* Lns 's eyes glaze over19:18
LaserJockLns: I know, I know19:18
nubae_:-)19:18
LaserJockEdubuntu used to me the official set19:18
LaserJocknow we're making it the opposite19:18
RichEdLaserJock: but Edubuntu was a seperate install and distro ... which held back adoption by requiring seperate h/w certification & install skills19:19
LaserJocksure19:19
LaserJockbut it's hard to have the same word mean different things19:19
RichEdnow edubuntu is a value add to the rock-solid base ... one install, just a custom app set19:19
RichEdEdubuntu are the people, project and effort ...19:20
LaserJockright, but those people produce products19:20
nubae_I think its fine if its defined by the support and the apps they are defined by19:20
LaserJocksome of which are supported (and called something other than the project) and some which are not19:20
LnsIMVHO, I think ubunutu-edu and ubuntu-edu-extras make good sense19:21
nubae_supported by canonical though19:21
RichEdLaserJock: think of it this way ... the application menu has an [Education] category ... not an Edubuntu category19:21
LaserJocknubae_: I don't think it's strictly just Canonical (in fact in this case it's very little Canonical)19:21
RichEdIt's Ubuntu with Education applications on top19:21
LaserJockI realize that19:22
nubae_official support I mean19:22
nubae_actually its education and games19:22
nubae_and a couple other categories too19:22
nubae_;-)19:22
LaserJockbut I'm staring at mailing lists, irc channels, a couple hundred wiki pages, and documentation that all say "Edubuntu"19:22
nubae_well, we dont have to change that do we19:22
LaserJockI also have a lot of packages with "edubuntu" in them19:22
nubae_just the add on cd is named ubuntu-edu19:23
LaserJockso here's my thinking about as best I can come up with right now19:23
LaserJock1) we use the Ubuntu Education CD and anything that goes on that is going to have ubuntu-edu branding/naming19:24
RichEdWell try this thinking ... when someone is considering an OS, Ubuntu is the best choice ;) and it also offers great education benefits ... but once a user has opened their eyes to Ubuntu, and installed, they can explore the world of Edubuntu.19:24
LaserJock2) the project as a whole is "Edubuntu" so we retain mailing list, LP teams, etc.19:24
RichEdSo Ubuntu is the entry point, Edubuntu is the "more great stuff"19:25
nubae_LaserJock, +119:25
LaserJock3) we write up a *clear* statement and send it to edubuntu-users, ububuntu-education, edubuntu.org, slashdot, digg ;-)19:25
* RichEd is happy with that19:25
LaserJockRichEd: right, I totally understand the marketing,etc. part of it. it's the practical part of me trying to impliment it that was giving me fits :-)19:26
LaserJockwe'll need to deal with About Edubuntu and some seed management, but I think that's about it19:27
RichEdwell there is very little restraint from Canonical on what you want to do :) - it's just the "product" naming that is firm19:27
LnsThe root of the confusion lies in the naming convention. Ubuntu, Xubuntu, Kubuntu are installable OS's.. Edubuntu is not (anymore). Result = confusion.19:27
LaserJockyes19:27
RichEdLns: exactly19:27
LaserJockI actually like Ubuntu Education better, but we have lots of inertia19:27
nubae_welll the problem is that ubuntu education can be only the officially supported bits19:28
LaserJockalright, well, should we try to look at a couple other topics real quick or is time to be done?19:28
Lnsi dont think a namechange would hinder our inertia one bit..i think it might actually get more to gravitate toward it19:28
nubae_and edubuntu wants to be more than that19:28
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 08 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 08 Jan 13:00: Desktop Team | 08 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 13 Jan 21:00: LoCo Council | 15 Jan 00:30: Forum Council | 19 Jan 22:00: IRC Council
RichEdAlso from large deployments, OEMs etc. Ubuntu has a huge community and support and adoption and credibility ... whereas Edubuntu is a small fraction of that19:28
LaserJocknubae_: except the Edubuntu community does it all ;-)19:29
nubae_yeah lets just forget that pickle for now19:29
LaserJockI wonder if people expect to see Ubuntu Education teams, developers, etc.19:29
LaserJockbut hopefully the only people who'd get confused would be OEMs anyway ;-)19:29
Lnshaha19:30
RichEdSo one of the reasons for the "move to make Edubuntu a add-on to Ubuntu" was to hand all support *below* the education application layer to the huge machine and allow Edubuntu to focus on the user level school stuff19:30
RichEd= greater confidence in H/W and installation and support etc.19:30
nubae_RichEd, thats quite weak in practice19:31
RichEd??19:31
Lnswhich sounds very logical19:31
nubae_as it means the edu portion of ubuntu was left with no developers19:31
Lnsnubae_: but the ubu devs are still working on the same bits that benefit edu users19:31
nubae_sorry... no 'paid' developers19:31
RichEdnubae_: off the record ... that p!$$ed me off as well19:31
LaserJock[ACTION] LaserJock to draft "Edubuntu and Ubuntu Education" clarification statement and run it by RichEd et. al19:31
MootBotACTION received:  LaserJock to draft "Edubuntu and Ubuntu Education" clarification statement and run it by RichEd et. al19:31
nubae_Im talking specifically edu apps19:31
LaserJocknubae_: we never had anybody really paid for edu apps19:32
nubae_basically what ubuntu education is right now19:32
RichEdnubae_: well oliver did not really work with edu apps ... he was o/s and LTSP19:32
nubae_true19:32
nubae_but a hell of a lot more wsa done than now19:32
LaserJockwell, but that's not really all Canonical's fault19:33
nubae_I'm just saying, it would be nice to have a paid dev working on this massive edu side of ubuntu19:33
RichEdmy comment to that is that many people were keen to help build the education product - and once it became mature, the need was less critical19:33
Lnswhat *we* need is focus, and edubuntu, ubuntu education, whatever, needs to focus on those bits only. We need to build our community around the educational apps/games/etc and the other communities can focus on ltsp, h/w, etc19:33
LaserJockif there's a week community and Canonical's doing all the work, and then Canonical steps aside, you can't blame Canonical for the week community that's left19:33
LaserJockbah, s/week/weak/19:34
Lnswe can build a HUGE community once we have a clear focus and mission19:34
RichEdalso, the orginal people grew up, got jobs, made babies ... and life called on their available contribution time19:34
LaserJockLns: agreed19:34
nubae_Lns, +1 well said19:34
Lnseducation and open source are a match made in Heaven, i dont think there'd be any issue with getting more people involved19:34
LaserJockso first step is getting this darn strategy doc done19:34
LaserJockgetting everybody on the same page19:35
RichEdLns: agreed ... but now it is phase 2 ... a new society ... phase 1 was build the base19:35
LaserJocksame goals, focus, etc.19:35
Lnsyes19:35
LaserJockok, really quick I think we need to briefly cover another topic19:35
LaserJock[TOPIC] Review of Jaunty specs and tasks (see Roadmap)19:36
MootBotNew Topic:  Review of Jaunty specs and tasks (see Roadmap)19:36
LaserJock[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap19:36
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap19:36
* RichEd has to go now ... but will keep the window open and scroll back later19:36
Lnsthx RichEd19:36
LaserJockwhat I think we people to do now is to start moving past "what are we" and start getting some things done for Jaunty19:36
LaserJockRichEd: thanks a ton19:36
LaserJockwe had a person stop by yesterday interested in helping out19:37
nubae_LaserJock, indeed, I've tried to get the website up to speed, and think its almost there19:37
RichEdthanks to you all and a +1 to LaserJock for doing a fine job of resucitation and leading19:37
LaserJockwhat we need is a real list of things we need/want to accomplish for Jaunty19:37
LaserJockwe don't need to have them all assigned right away19:37
LaserJockbut we *need* to define the goals for this release19:38
nubae_ok well we need to choose which apps to MIR19:38
LaserJockso what I want you all to do is think of a few, smallish, actionable, feasible, things we can do for Jaunty19:38
LaserJocknubae_: right, so that's one thing19:38
LaserJockany other things people can think of off the top of their head?19:39
nubae_we should try and get the wiki into a usable state before Jaunty19:39
nubae_like was done with LTSP19:39
nubae_hint hint nudge nudge19:39
Lnsnot sure if this would fit into a "roadmap" , but maybe herding together the primary devs for the actual edu apps we include, to collaborate more easily would be a good idea?19:40
Lnsnubae_: I can do that19:40
LaserJocknubae_: how do you mean?19:40
nubae_well, the wiki is a great place for howtos19:40
LnsI need more info though, as ive been doing primarily ltsp stuff recently and need more info on how to present it19:41
nubae_and there are many there already19:41
nubae_they just need to be fixed up19:41
LaserJockLns: do you mean getting together the upstream devs?19:41
LnsLaserJock: yes.. like an informal "here we are, you should join our lists so we can get things done" type thing19:41
LaserJockLns: ok, good idea19:41
nubae_not a bad idea, it would spur them on to get stuff into main maybe19:42
LaserJockperhaps we can do like an OpenWeek kind of thing, but perhaps just an OpenDay19:42
nubae_or are we not talking about uni devs19:42
Lnscommunity building gooood19:42
nubae_right, have to run, but will read up later....19:42
Lnsnubae_: not specifically universe devs, no.. individual edu app maintainers upstream as well19:43
Lnsto let them know we are here and are using their apps, so they should become involved with us as well for collaboration purposes19:43
LnsLaserJock: what's openweek?19:44
LaserJockhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek19:44
Lnsmmm, saucy! thats a good idea, especially with an ical schedule, or similar19:45
Lnskeep people checking it for updates19:45
LaserJockok, I've added some stuff to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap19:46
LaserJockwhat I'd like from you guys is to continue thinking of small things19:46
LaserJockthey really need to be bitesize so we can get them done relatively quickly19:46
LaserJockJaunty freezes will come waay too quickly19:47
LaserJockthen, if you want to take/lead a task put your name by it19:47
LaserJockand we'll start doing more task tracking19:47
LaserJocksometimes it seems a bit silly for small tasks19:47
Lnsnah19:48
LaserJockbut we need to show both ourselves and and other people what we're up to19:48
Lnseverything starts small, by doing that we'll build momentum and identity19:48
LaserJockright, the 2 main goals I have for Jaunty are to build some momentum in existing contributors and to have a place for new people to "land"19:48
LnsLaserJock: i dont see what you put up for tasks19:49
LaserJockI put up the application review section and the stuff in Documentation and Community19:50
Lnsoic19:50
LaserJockreally just quick notes19:50
LaserJockplease feel freel to split up, expand, prettify :-)19:50
Lnshehe.. i'll try and do some wiki work, but it will be minimal right now as i dont want to move it in a direction that isnt supported by everyone else19:51
LaserJockthe one under Website is sort of what I think would be helpful for formatting19:51
LaserJockwe could also go with a table formate19:51
Lnsthat is a great idea19:51
Lnsand link to the official app websites as well19:52
Lnsif they have one19:52
LaserJockLns: well, generally I would suggest doing a little bit and then ask on edubuntu-devel or on #edubuntu for review19:52
LnsLaserJock: ok19:52
LaserJockbut remember, the wiki has history, we can always revert your changes ;-)19:52
LaserJockso there's little risk19:52
Lnsexactly, which is good19:52
LaserJock[ACTION] Everybody is going to help fill out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap19:53
MootBotACTION received:  Everybody is going to help fill out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap19:53
LaserJockok, I need to probably go19:53
LaserJockany last questions?19:53
LnsLaserJock: yeah real quick19:53
LaserJockI'll take off the agenda items that we covered today and leave the rest for next time (which I think we should start holding regular meetings)19:53
Lnson the wiki should i change "Edubuntu is a Linux distribution" at the top?19:53
LaserJockLns: which page?19:54
Lnshttps://wiki.edubuntu.org/Edubuntu'19:54
Lnserr, without the '19:54
Lnsmain wiki page19:54
LaserJockyeah19:54
Lnsok19:54
LaserJockwe need to use more "educational layer" and "project focused on Ubuntu in educational settings" language19:55
Lnscool, i can do that19:55
LaserJockthe "it's a distro" or "OS" stuff is just going to be a confusion19:55
LaserJockok?19:55
Lnsyup19:55
LaserJocknubae_: done?19:56
Lnshe's ooto i think19:56
LaserJock#endmeeting19:56
MootBotMeeting finished at 13:56.19:56
LaserJockok, we're done19:56
* Lns claps19:56
Lnsthanks LaserJock19:56
Lnsgood stuff19:56
nubae_yup19:57
nubae_all sounds good19:57
LaserJockif we do this more often then we don't have 2hr meetings every time ;-)19:57
Lnshaha, good idea19:57
nubae_heh, ok so set the next one up now19:57
LaserJock2 weeks from today would probably be good19:58
nubae_cool19:58
Lnssame bat time?19:58
LaserJockI think so19:58
* Lns sets sunbird event19:58
LaserJockunless we move days we have 2 other meetings before us, and I can't get up before those :-)19:58
Lnsnp, but 18:00 utc is still open on the 21st right?19:59
LaserJockshould be yeah20:00
Lnsok20:00
Lnsalright time to drum up more windows support business for my tech so i can spend more time on irc with you guys! =)20:00
LaserJockheh20:00
Lnsthx again, i see us moving forward!20:01
=== wonderful is now known as SteveS

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