[00:45]  * ScottK-desktop wonders if his use of irony on -devel will get recognized as such?
[04:25]  * NCommander takes back every bad thing he's ever said about KDE
[04:25] <NCommander> Of ever DE in Ubuntu
[04:25] <NCommander> its the only one that DOES NOT suck with two heads
[04:26] <ScottK> Wahoo.
[04:26] <ScottK> Don't try Hardy.
[04:27] <NCommander> Two things
[04:27] <NCommander> Does KDE have a screen color calibatior, and second, how can get focus follows mouse?
[04:30] <DaSkreech> Focus follows mind
[04:33] <ScottK> NCommander: For the 2nd one, K -> System -> System Settings -> Window Behavior -> Focus -> Policy
[04:35] <NCommander> Ahhhhh
[04:35] <NCommander> I've come home ...
[04:35] <ScottK> NCommander: Does Gamma adjustment give you what you want for the first one?
[04:35] <NCommander> Yeah, that would be it
[04:35] <NCommander> This monitor out of caliberation, badly
[04:36] <ScottK> OK.  Got that too.
[04:37] <NCommander> where?
[04:37] <ScottK> NCommander: K -> System -> KRandRTray Screen Resize and Rotate, right click on it on the taskbar, click on configure display and then monitor gamma
[04:37] <NCommander> I dunno why, but I'm even getting graphical effects now O_O;
[04:38] <NCommander> Don't have it
[04:38] <ScottK> What do you have and is this Intrepid or Jaunty?
[04:39] <NCommander> Two screens
[04:39] <NCommander> Jaunty
[04:39] <NCommander> and I just crashed kwin :-)
[04:39] <ScottK> Dunno then.
[04:40]  * ScottK looks around for someone using Jaunty or at least 4.2
[04:40]  * vorian waves
[04:40] <NCommander> any idea where I can get more themes for KDE?
[04:40]  * NCommander doesn't really like the ones included
[04:40] <vorian> http://kde-look.org
[04:41] <DaSkreech> !info krandr
[04:41] <DaSkreech> !info krandr hardy
[04:41] <NCommander> hold on
[04:41] <DaSkreech> ScottK: What's the name of that package?
[04:42] <ScottK> It's not a separate binary package.
[04:42] <ScottK> KRandRTray is what it's called on my menu.
[04:42] <ScottK> nixternal loves it.
[04:42] <nixternal> grrr
[04:43]  * nixternal kicks krandrtray
[04:43] <ScottK> It's the one thing keeping him from going back to Vista full time.
[04:43] <nixternal> xrandr ftw!
[04:43] <ScottK> ;-)
[04:43]  * DaSkreech hugs nixternal
[04:43]  * ScottK waits to see nixternal do gamma correction command line.
[04:43] <nixternal> oh you ass
[04:43] <DaSkreech> !info xrandr hardy
[04:44] <DaSkreech> what is it a part of?
[04:44] <ScottK> X
[04:44] <nixternal> I don't need to do gamma correction, as I am not an artist
[04:44] <DaSkreech> ScottK: Krandr is a part of X ?
[04:44] <nixternal> and when I did do gamma changes in linux in the past, well linux should have never had that functionality because it couldn't do it like mac, but did it better than winblows
[04:44] <ScottK> No, xrandr is.
[04:44] <NCommander> ScottK, it seems its kgamma I need
[04:44] <ScottK> Hmmm.  Dunno where that hides in 4.2
[04:45] <ScottK> More specifically xrandr is in x11-xserver-utils
[04:45]  * nixternal is watching the Steve Ballmer keynote at CES
[04:46] <NCommander> nixternal, the gamma is SO far off on my LCD its pathetic
[04:46] <nixternal> he makes me want to use a TI-81 as a computer
[04:46] <DaSkreech> CES is on?
[04:46] <nixternal> I must have a good LCD that takes care of all of that for me
[04:46] <DaSkreech> !find xrandr
[04:47] <DaSkreech> Heh
[04:48] <ScottK> I think it's in kdegraphics.
[04:48] <NCommander> would someone like to try and reproduce a bug for me?
[04:48] <NCommander> Can you open the Add Widget menu, then try and drag a widget to the panel?
[04:48] <NCommander> (its causing a crash everything I try it here)
[04:49] <ScottK> Works in 4.1.3
[04:50] <NCommander> can someone running 4.2 try it?
[04:51] <LaserJock> NCommander: works here on Intrepid 4.2
[04:51] <NCommander> Odd
[04:51]  * NCommander really needs a way to fix the gamma ;.;
[04:52] <LaserJock> ok, I don't get this "Show Dashboard" widget that's default
[04:53] <LaserJock> all it seems to do is shade all the non-widget things on the desktop
[04:54] <DaSkreech> Damn it
[04:54] <DaSkreech> I can't drag to the panel cause the panel autohides
[04:55] <DaSkreech> LaserJock: feel free to replace it with the show desktop one
[04:55] <LaserJock> I just don't understand what it's supposed to do
[04:56] <LaserJock> I thought it would be like the OS X dashboard where you can add widgets to it
[04:56] <LaserJock> which would be really handy
[04:56] <LaserJock> but it just shows the desktop widgets
[04:56] <LaserJock> so I'm wondering if I'm missing something
[04:59] <vorian> that's about it really
[05:01] <NCommander> what's the name of the IRC client everyone been talking about with nofiications?
[05:02] <crimsun> quassel
[05:03] <DaSkreech> LaserJock: the dashboard is a collection of widgets. By default it's the one on the desktop
[05:03] <DaSkreech>  You can add widgets to it if you like
[05:04] <LaserJock> DaSkreech: so can you change it to be other than on the desktop?
[05:04] <DaSkreech> That's the idea
[05:05] <LaserJock> interesting
[05:05]  * NCommander can't figure out how to change the cursor acceleration
[05:05] <NCommander> My mouse is too slow!
[05:06] <ScottK> Let me know when you figure that one out.
[05:06] <NCommander> ScottK, you have that problem too?
[05:06] <ScottK> Yeah.
[05:07] <ScottK> Mind you it doesn't bug enough to really try and figure it out.
[05:11] <ScottK> Good night.
[05:12] <NCommander> night ScottK
[06:12] <apachelogger> NCommander, ScottK: sysettings => mouse n keyboard => mouse => advanced => acceleration IIRC
[06:14] <NCommander> apachelogger, that isn't it, what I need is the GNOME equivelent to sensetivity
[06:14] <NCommander> actually
[06:14] <NCommander> This works, but its ... jerky
[06:14] <apachelogger> pointer threshold maybe?
[06:15] <NCommander> yeah
[06:15] <NCommander> that's it
[06:15] <NCommander> THat needs a better name
[06:15] <NCommander> and FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T SET IT TO ZERO!
[06:15]  * NCommander just learned that the hard way
[06:15] <apachelogger> it's 2 here
[06:15] <NCommander> it was 4 here
[06:15] <NCommander> with acceleration at 2
[06:15] <NCommander> now its 9, and 2
[06:15] <NCommander> MUCH better
[06:16] <NCommander> :-)
[06:16] <apachelogger> maybe we fiddle with it in kubuntu-default-settings
[06:16] <apachelogger> NCommander: I agree on the name change though
[06:16] <apachelogger> NCommander: wanna report a bug? ;-)
[06:16] <NCommander> My bugs have a tendency not to move
[06:16] <NCommander> As a note, I finally have an ARM board that can run KDE4
[06:17] <NCommander> So I should be able you to give you the lowdown on it
[06:17]  * NCommander can now scroll across the 2560x1024 desktop :-)
[06:17] <apachelogger> hrrr
[06:17] <DaSkreech> :-)
[06:18] <NCommander> It's not making my intel video card happy
[06:18] <apachelogger> NCommander: btw, please make a list of all ARM build fix bugs
[06:18] <NCommander> apachelogger, Its on my TODO list
[06:18] <apachelogger> NCommander: best thing is you send them to kde-devel or kde-core-devel
[06:18] <apachelogger> both is probably better ;-)
[06:18] <NCommander> Well, some just moved
[06:18] <NCommander> the kdegraphics guy just accepted it
[06:18]  * NCommander had to explain to him the nature of the fix and such, it was a 10 or 15 email opus
[06:19] <apachelogger> fun
[06:21]  * DaSkreech wants KDE 4.3
[06:28] <LaserJock> hmm, I mistakenly read that as "wants KDE 3.4" and I was thinking "dude, you're a little late" :-)
[06:32] <apachelogger> 3.4 was an awesome release
[06:32] <apachelogger> I think I started using suse with 3.4.something
[06:33] <apachelogger> and then came 3.5.0, where not only KDE was broken, but also suse :P
[06:33] <DaSkreech> yay \o/
[06:33] <DaSkreech> More stuff to fix
[06:35] <apachelogger> yeah, was a super fun time
[06:36] <apachelogger> now look what happened, I switched to kubuntu, got dragged into development and now I can't even type in sensible speed because my machine is all busy with compiling and downloading and stuff
[06:38] <jcastro> time for a new PC!
[06:38] <jcastro> the cycle continues
[06:41] <DaSkreech> :-D
[06:41] <DaSkreech> Compile only on one core :)
[06:41] <apachelogger> next PC gets at least one SSD, that should greatly improve the time it takes to test a new KDE release :D
[06:41] <apachelogger> + quad core
[06:42] <apachelogger> DaSkreech: that would be inefficient :P
[06:42] <DaSkreech> I was going to say two cores but then I thought lets play it safe
[06:43] <apachelogger> well, all machines at $HOME are equipped with icecc, so if all are turned on I can compile with 7 cores
[06:47] <DaSkreech> Nice
[06:48] <DaSkreech> I heard about a company that runs gentoo throughout and has distcc so when new updates come out the entire company becomes a packaging farm which gets dumped on a cache server
[06:48] <apachelogger> doing that with distcc is rather stupid IMHO though
[06:49] <apachelogger> the main advantage of icecc over distcc is that icecc got a scheduler and thus it's difficult to render the compile nodes unusable
[08:40] <jussi01> hi BullHorns
[08:40] <jussi01> !contribute | BullHorns
[08:41] <jussi01> BullHorns: there are loads of things to do, just depends what area you want to get involved
[08:42] <BullHorns> good to hear, not afraid of work, first need to get the dev platform up, any suggestions
[08:42] <BullHorns> obviously not joining kernel level dev but willing to help where I can
[08:43] <jussi01> BullHorns: hrm, what kind of areas are you interested in helping out? what floats your boat? packaging?
[08:43] <jussi01> !packaging | BullHorns, you could start here
[08:44] <jussi01> BullHorns: in which case youd want to go join #ubuntu-motu also.
[08:44] <BullHorns> whatever you think would be appropriate, if packaging is the starting point then let it be
[08:44] <BullHorns> will look at it quickly
[08:45] <jussi01> BullHorns: Im not proberly the best person to be talking to, have a chat to Riddell or some of the others in here
[08:46] <Tm_T> BullHorns: it's up to you what you like to do
[08:47] <Tm_T> BullHorns: there's always room for documentation, translation, packaging and more
[08:47] <Lure> BullHorns: the best it to start with something that you personally would like to be improved
[08:47] <Lure> BullHorns: this will ensure that you have enough drive to get through roadblocks ;-)
[08:48] <Lure> BullHorns: that worked for me when I started ;-)
[08:50] <BullHorns> There's alot of room everywhere, like I said, first need to get the dev platform running. will do some reading first
[09:21] <apachelogger> Tm_T: it appears to me kmail notification from within kontact work now
[09:21] <Tm_T> good
[09:22] <Tm_T> apachelogger: I'm beginning my little investigations in Kontact now, addressbook contacts edition is crashy
[09:46] <apachelogger> jussi01: btw, you should repoke pinheiro about the quassel icons
[09:46] <jussi01> apachelogger: repoke since yesterday?
[09:49] <apachelogger> nvm
[10:09] <Riddell> koffice to pack, everything need packaging!
[10:12] <apachelogger> Riddell: wasn't that cancled?
[10:12] <apachelogger> not that I hadn't uploaded it to jaunty anyway :P
[10:13] <Riddell> there's a new one
[10:16] <Lure> anybody knows why new upload to ppa gets rejected after I deleted all packages from my ppa?
[10:16] <Lure> it still claims that source is already in the archive :-(
[10:17] <Lure> and I have to upload new source as upstream tar-ball has changed
[10:17] <apachelogger> Riddell: should be just exchanging the tarballs I guess
[10:17] <apachelogger> Lure: maybe they are not deleted yet
[10:18] <apachelogger> Lure: can take some time to get them actually wiped ... even then I am not sure it would like the same-version-but-different-tarball upload
[10:20] <Lure> apachelogger: so the only option is then to use beta8a instead of beta8
[10:21] <apachelogger> Lure: or use another PPA
[10:21] <apachelogger> it's not like we are low on PPAs :P
[10:29] <Hobbsee> Lure: they never actually 'delete'
[10:29] <Hobbsee> Lure: they just stop people downloading them
[10:45] <apachelogger> dpkg-deb: failed in buffer_write(fd) (3, ret=-1): cat (data): No space left on device
[10:52] <Riddell> apachelogger: which device is that?
[10:52] <apachelogger> the device pbuilder _was_ working on
[10:52] <apachelogger> now I gotta rebuild kdeedu
[12:00] <Lure> Hobbsee: how unfortunate...
[12:01] <Hobbsee> Lure: indeed.
[12:01] <Lure> apachelogger: any ppa that I could abuse for test digikam upload?
[12:02] <apachelogger> Lure: kubuntu-experimental
[12:02] <Lure> apachelogger: thanks!
[12:32] <jussi01> oooh, /me wants!
[12:33] <jussi01> Lure: let me know when you are done
[12:47] <Lure> apachelogger: can you approve me for kubuntu-experimental team?
[12:47] <Tm_T> Lure: no, you're so unapprovable
[12:49] <Lure> Tm_T: you had to tell them, ah?
[12:49] <Lure> ;-)
[12:57] <freeflying> Riddell: how about release lm_sc.t3g.be, lm_sc.t3g.le pydict_sc.bin.be and pydict_sc.bin.le under BSD, and others still under LGPL |CDDL
[13:14] <Riddell> freeflying: that would work
[13:19] <freeflying> Riddell: thanks :)
[13:27] <apachelogger> Lure: done
[13:37] <Lure> apachelogger: thanks
[13:39] <apachelogger> Riddell: markey wishes to have an ignore button for the reboot-after-update-notification
[13:53] <Riddell> apachelogger: is this because it's annoying him with multiple popups? (that would be a bug) or because it's very existance is annoying him
[13:54] <apachelogger> Riddell: I would assume it just repeats too often in his opinion
[13:54] <apachelogger> *checking*
[13:55] <Riddell> it shouldn't repeat at all, that's a bug
[13:55] <Riddell> it should just sit quietly in the systray after the first popup
[13:55] <apachelogger> ah, I see
[13:56] <markey> hey all
[13:56] <apachelogger> Riddell: <markey> apachelogger: no, mostly what annoys me a bit is the systray "reboot" icon (yellow one)
 it's like a constant reminder
 that you should reboot
[13:56] <Riddell> well that's the idea, you should reboot :)
[13:56] <markey> I don't think it's really necessary
[13:57] <markey> unless there's a major security risk
[13:57] <markey> like, remote attack
[13:57] <Riddell> if there's security updates installed in linux then it's a good idea to reboot
[13:57] <markey> but this happens too often imho
[13:57] <apachelogger> means linux is unsecure
[13:57] <markey> my workstation is running 24/7, even with a UPS
[13:58] <markey> I like to reboot it as rarely as possible
[13:58] <apachelogger> well, you know
[13:58] <apachelogger> markey: wouldn't that issue pretty much disappear with KDE 4.2 and the possibility to hide tray icons?
[13:58] <markey> would that hide all icons, or just specific ones?
[13:58] <apachelogger> markey: like in KDE 3 just specific ones
[13:59] <markey> I mean, I could just select "quit" in the Update Notifier, then I would get rid of it too
[13:59] <markey> but that's a bit drastic
[13:59] <markey> then I would miss update notifications too
[13:59] <Riddell> so we should add a Hide option to the menu?
[13:59] <markey> having a "ignore" option for the reboot thing would be great
[14:00] <Riddell> "don't show again"
[14:00] <markey> like you suggested
[14:01] <apachelogger> markey: http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot006.png http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot007.png http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot008.png
[14:01] <Sput> make it distinguish between critical (security) updates and normal ones?
[14:01] <Riddell> Sput: it's up to the packages when they trigger the notification
[14:01] <Sput> ah :)
[14:01] <Sput> makes sense
[14:02] <apachelogger> Sput: it's pretty much only the kernel that triggers this option and most kernel security updates are cirtical security updates anyway :P
[14:02] <markey> suggestion: add a "Ignore Reboot" item to the context menu of the Update Notifier
[14:02] <markey> currently there is only "Quit"
[14:02] <markey> that's not too crowded then
[14:02] <Sput> yes sure, markey made it sound like it would be triggered by all upgrades :)
[14:02] <markey> heh no
[14:03]  * Sput doesn't know kubuntu very well and just wanted to chip in an idea :)
[14:03] <apachelogger> Sput: you wan't to score a major deployment and don't even know what the end product would look like? :P
[14:03] <ScottK> Any objections to me updating quassel to a git snapshot with KDE integration enabled?
[14:03] <markey> so basically, the reboot icon would still come up (warning me), but I could chose to ignore (hide) it temporarily
[14:03]  * Riddell files bug 315082
[14:03] <ScottK> Sput gave me a +1 from a quassel perspective.
[14:04] <apachelogger> ScottK: ok with me
[14:04] <Riddell> hmm
[14:04] <Riddell> bug 315082
[14:04] <apachelogger> ScottK: there is a packaging branch
[14:04] <markey> sounds good, thanks Riddell :)
[14:04] <ScottK> apachelogger: Thanks.  I did a with KDE version for my PPA already.  I'll look at the branch too.
[14:05] <apachelogger> ScottK: lp:~ubuntu-dev/quassel/ubuntu/
[14:06] <markey> btw, I read there are some people working on a life-update technology for the kernel
[14:06] <markey> you could update it without rebooting
[14:06]  * apachelogger prepares for the bug report "remove KDE foo from quassel"
[14:06] <markey> important for servers, e.g.
[14:06] <markey> that could be cool one day, if it works
[14:06] <ScottK> apachelogger: I'm considering if we should have a quassel-client-qt package.
[14:07] <apachelogger> well, in theory we would need quassel-qt and quassel-client-qt
[14:07] <apachelogger> Sput: do you plan to depend on more than libs at some point?
[14:07] <ScottK> Yeah.
[14:07] <Sput> apachelogger: more than kdelibs?
[14:08] <Sput> I don't
[14:08] <Sput> in fact, I don't plan on using more KDE features than we do now
[14:08] <apachelogger> ok
[14:08] <Sput> at least there is nothing obvious for me we could benefit from
[14:08] <apachelogger> ScottK: does your package use the oxygen icons or the ones coming with quassel?
[14:09] <Sput> it should be using the system oxygen icons
[14:09] <ScottK> apachelogger: IIRC I used the ones that come with quassel.
[14:09] <Sput> we'll also bump the ones we include to match upstream very soon, now that the artwork freeze is over
[14:09]  * ScottK didn't spend a lot of time on it.
[14:09] <apachelogger> Sput: is there some reason why it should do that?
[14:09] <Sput> apachelogger: well, it saves space, mostly :)
[14:09] <Sput> and uses your KDE color theme
[14:09] <Sput> eh, icon theme
[14:09] <apachelogger> hm
[14:10] <Sput> so if you have KDE installed anyway...
[14:10] <Sput> oh, actually, quassel disabled built-in icons if KDE is enabled
[14:10] <apachelogger> well, I am thinking about gnome users
[14:10] <Sput> we enforce that :)
[14:10] <Sput> huh
[14:10] <Sput> hm
[14:10] <Sput> what does KIconLoader do in such a case?
[14:10] <Sput> I mean that's what we use
[14:10] <apachelogger> use the kde icon set
[14:11] <Sput> it does not make any sense to integrate our own icons, because KIconLoader doesn't look into our binary anyway
[14:11] <Sput> we could ship oxygen as a separate package and install it in $PREFIX/share/icons/oxygen of course, in which case KIconLoader would find it :)
[14:11] <apachelogger> imagine the following scenario: default ubuntu user with gnome-only desktop wants to install quassel => ~60Mib of data to download
[14:12] <apachelogger> kdelibs only would be ~15 IIRC, but oxygen bloats the deps
[14:12] <Sput> wouldn't KIconLoader use the Gnome icon theme then?
[14:12] <Nightrose> ScottK: be aware that quassel updates currently have the annoying breaking protocol habbit...   which means that if they break protocol and you have a core that is older than that you can no longer connect to it without an update
[14:12] <apachelogger> Sput: nope
[14:12] <mok0> In the file  /usr/include/c++/4.3/cstring, they now undefine all the macros in string.h to replace them with functions. However, they also undefine chrstr and chrrstr, even though there are no function for those. I think this is a bug. Do you?
[14:12] <apachelogger> Sput: the icon spec doesn't go that far ;-)
[14:12] <Sput> apachelogger: afaik it looks into XDG_DATA_DIRS
[14:13] <ScottK> Nightrose: Yep.  And that would apply to everything that's currently in the archive.
[14:13] <apachelogger> Sput: yeah, but still for the icon set configured in $DESKTOP
[14:13] <apachelogger> which is oxygen
[14:13] <apachelogger> then it would only fallback to hicolor
[14:13] <Sput> anyway, using builtin icons is not an option because we can't tell KIconLoader to look into :icons/
[14:13] <Sput> you could take the needed oxygen subset and place it somewhere KIconLoader finds it
[14:14] <apachelogger> Sput: the shipping in separate package sounds sensible actually
[14:14] <Sput> oxy-light or something :)
[14:14] <Sput> we don't need the svg stuff
[14:14] <Sput> it's what makes oxygen huge
[14:14] <Riddell> we don't ship the SVGs
[14:14] <ScottK> apachelogger: I'd say just to the -qt packages and Gnomish people can use them.
[14:14] <ScottK> to/do
[14:14] <Sput> in quassel we ship 16x16 and 22x22 afair, that has an acceptable size
[14:15] <apachelogger> ScottK: it makes things more complicated ... quassel then provides 5 binary packages
[14:15] <Riddell> if there's a qt only package what's the point of the kde one?
[14:15] <Sput> yay for USE flags :)
[14:15] <ScottK> Riddell: So you get the advantage of KDE integration.
[14:15] <apachelogger> knotify, keyshortcuts and iconloader
[14:15] <Sput> and color theme
[14:15] <Riddell> all sounds like stuff gnome people should want :)
[14:16] <Sput> Qt doesn't pick up KDE's color scheme correctly in all cases
[14:16] <ScottK> Riddell: Yes, but they should be running KDE then.
[14:16] <Sput> (i.e. background color for widgets)
[14:16] <apachelogger> Sput: improved in 4.2 AFAIK
[14:16]  * ScottK isn't going to work on it until later today, so feel free to argue it out and let me know.
[14:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: they don't want 40Mib of icons
[14:16] <Sput> apachelogger: hmm, not at the time I did KDE integration :) I had a nice change from white to greyish with KDE enabled
[14:17] <apachelogger> weird
[14:17] <Sput> I didn't really investigate though
[14:17] <apachelogger> anyway
[14:17] <Sput> 2.2M    ./22x22
[14:17] <Sput> 2.1M    ./16x16
[14:17] <Sput> 4.2M    .
[14:17] <Sput> this is what we ship currently
[14:17] <Sput> probably will grow a bit when I bump this soon
[14:18] <Sput> then again, I don't really select the ones we need
[14:18] <apachelogger> still less than completel oxygen
[14:18] <apachelogger> ScottK: I think you should push the kde version for now
[14:18] <ScottK> OK.
[14:18] <Sput> I guess it could be possible to write a script that scans the source and spits out a list of the icons we really need :)
[14:18] <ScottK> I got your branch OK.
[14:19] <apachelogger> ScottK: we can discuss it at the next meeting, but I think providing a quassel-data-icons package that can be replaced by oxygen is the best thing to do
[14:19] <apachelogger> Sput: I am quite sure amarok-for-windows/mac could use that as well
[14:20] <ScottK> For now, I'm not going to mess with it.  Whatever the use KDE flag does, is what I'll do.
[14:20] <Sput> apachelogger: makes sense... we try and keep with upstream, so our code doesn't change when switching between ours and upstream's icon set
[14:20] <Sput> though we might be slightly outdated by now, I haven't bumped in a while
[14:21] <Sput> (and I need to put a warning in our own simple iconloader to complain about a missing icon)
[14:35] <jussi01> hrm, you super coders, how do I creat a wait in bash? ie I want it to wait a couple of seconds before issueing the next thing?
[14:36] <apachelogger> sleep $COUPLEOFSECONDS
[14:37] <jussi01> apachelogger: ahh, thanks :)
[14:40] <apachelogger> markey: are there known issues about rbot not saving data properly?
[14:52] <markey> apachelogger: not that I know of
[14:53] <apachelogger> ok
[14:55] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: seen bug 314684?
[14:57] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: got nothing to do with oxygencursors
[14:58] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: apparently we are using the kdebase internal in jaunty, while in intrepid we had the ones from oxygencursors
[14:58] <apachelogger> or maybe we never had the oxygencursors
[14:59] <apachelogger> the package should  dropped in favor of kdebase anyway
[14:59] <JontheEchidna> perhaps we picked up oxygencursors in a merge
[14:59] <JontheEchidna> (the dependency of)
[14:59] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: dependency of?
[14:59] <JontheEchidna> maybe we picked up the dependency of oxygencursors in a merge
[14:59]  * apachelogger is getting confused :P
[15:00] <JontheEchidna> sry
[15:00] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: kubuntu-desktop doesn't get merged
[15:00] <apachelogger> well
[15:00] <apachelogger> lemme tell you the whole story
[15:01] <JontheEchidna> oh, nevermind
[15:01] <apachelogger> back in the good old days ruphy started work on the cursors, but didn't release anything, so debian introduced oxygencursors as a snapshot from ruphy's git repo
[15:01] <apachelogger> the I cam around and split their big monster package up into more sensible ones
[15:02] <apachelogger> then KDE 4.1 got the oxygen cursors add
[15:02] <apachelogger> we however continued to use the external version (IIRC at least)
[15:02] <JontheEchidna> iirc we disable everything but the white cursors in base-workspace
[15:02] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: in intrepid, apparently not in jaunty
[15:03] <JontheEchidna> oh, then oxygencursors should go bye-bye
[15:03] <apachelogger> that is what I said :P
[15:03] <JontheEchidna> :P
[15:03]  * apachelogger thinks the cursors shoud get their own package though
[15:03] <apachelogger> gnome users might also want to use them
[15:04] <JontheEchidna> plus having 8 million different colors by default would be undesirable
[15:06] <vorian> apachelogger: i was tempted to add them last night
[15:06] <vorian> zion_black seemed interesting
[15:06] <apachelogger> vorian: you missed the documentation btw
[15:07] <apachelogger> vorian: that is also why I said that we need to keep not-installed more up-to-date earlier today ;-)
[15:07] <apachelogger> all the pointless list-missing flood hinders QA
[15:07] <vorian> ah
[15:07] <vorian> sorry about that
[15:08] <apachelogger> well, can't blame you on that
[15:10] <vorian> yes you can :P
[15:13] <apachelogger> vorian: not unless you were eating kdebase all day long :P
[15:13] <vorian> seemed like it yesterday, hehe
[15:13] <vorian> but once those cleared, it was smooth sailing
[15:14] <apachelogger> *nod* stable updates aren't that bad
[17:52] <ScottK> Riddell: zul just uploaded msql 5.1.  It'd be hand for us if some archive admin would push it into the archive ....
[17:52]  * ScottK returns and looks at quassel again.
[17:53] <Riddell> that's interesting
[17:56] <Riddell> ScottK: accepted into universe
[17:57] <vorian> awesome!
[17:57] <ScottK> Riddell: Great.  I unseeded amarok to make stuff fit on the CD for the last Alpha.  What do you think about demoting it so it can build against 5.1?
[18:00] <DaSkreech> What's still KDE3 on the CD ?
[18:00] <ScottK> k3b
[18:03] <Riddell> ScottK: that would work temporarily, but we still want to work out a way to get amarok back into main before release
[18:03] <Riddell> knetworkmanager is also still KDE 3
[18:03] <ScottK> Right.  Forgot about that one.
[18:03] <ScottK> Riddell: True, but I think better amarok2 in universe than amarok1 in main.
[18:04] <ScottK> Those being the choices that are currently available, AFAICT.
[18:05] <apachelogger> we could switch to xmms :P
[18:07] <Riddell> apachelogger: did you get the new amarok building?
[18:07] <apachelogger> Riddell: yes, it isn't buildable with cmake 2.6.0 anymore
[18:07] <Riddell> ah, but find in jaunty?
[18:07] <apachelogger> see amarok pkg list for reference
[18:08] <Riddell> ah, but fine in jaunty?
[18:08] <apachelogger> Riddell: should be
[18:08] <Riddell> apachelogger: do you know when the release is?
[18:08] <apachelogger> Riddell: calendar says saturday
[18:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: shall I demote amarok to universe and let you upload the new release tomorrow then?
[18:11] <apachelogger> Riddell: we face a "can't add it to the CD because mysql is not in main" or a "can't add it to the CD because it is KDE 3", so I guess demoting makes sense ... though, will it have to go through the whole MIR process again?
[18:12] <Riddell> no it won't
[18:12] <Riddell> we need to ask techboard if we can upload something like the mysql package that's in the PPAs though
[18:13] <Riddell> for main
[18:17] <apachelogger> hm
[18:17] <apachelogger> Riddell: it would have to depend on mysql-server-5.1 for now
[18:17] <apachelogger> the packaging doesn't have an independent data package
[18:29] <ScottK> apachelogger: My quassel build log says -- Use system-installed icon theme, so I think that's OK.
[18:30] <apachelogger> ScottK: yeah, Sput said one can't even get the builtin icons with kiconloader
[18:31] <Sput> it's forcefully disabled by -DWITH_KDE=1
[18:32] <Sput> which means, that a system-installed iconset for non-quassel icons is assumed to exist, and quassel icons get installed to our data dir
[18:34] <ScottK> Sput: Is -DWITH_KDE=1 the same as -DWITH_KDE=ON?
[18:34] <Sput> ScottK: yes
[18:34] <Sput> it's just shorter :)
[18:34] <ScottK> OK.  Just making sure I didn't miss something.
[19:10]  * ScottK eats chocolate while quassel builds
[19:14] <seele> apachelogger: i'm thinking ss too.  my advisor was not impressed with the notification system and said i could do more good working on something i can get fixed, heh
[19:18] <ScottK> apachelogger: AFAICT the quassel-data package is just the icons and can be dropped now.  Is that right?
[19:21]  * seele waves to colomar 
[19:22]  * colomar waves back
[19:22] <colomar> Anything new on the kpackagekit-front?
[19:22] <seele> jjesse said he was working on screenshots but i dont think he's finished them yet
[19:24] <colomar> ok
[19:46] <seele> are we keeping the adept installer and just replacing the adept package manager?
[19:48] <Riddell> replace both hopefully
[19:49] <seele> hrm
[19:49] <apachelogger> ScottK: nope, it contains the application icons which are not part of oxygen
[19:49] <Riddell> either with a separate kpacakgekit frontend or just have kpackagekit show applications only with a filter set on by default
[19:50] <ScottK> Grumble.
[19:50] <apachelogger> ScottK: besides, we need to have the package for quassel.png anyway as both quassel and quassel-client come with a desktop file
[19:50] <seele> Riddell: who is the app maintainer?  would he be able to make some changes if necessary?
[19:51] <seele> Riddell: search needs some work, especially if it is supposed to also replace adept installer for applications
[19:51] <seele> don't get me wrong.. it is still and improvement from adept
[19:51] <Riddell> seele: we can but ask
[19:51] <colomar> I agree with seele. Kpackagekit as it is definitely cannot replace an application installer
[19:52] <colomar> Users just wouldn't find what they needed unless they new the application's name (which is rarely the case especially for new users given the non-telling names of most apps)
[19:53] <ScottK> OK.  Didn't take long to put back.
[19:53] <jjesse> colomar: i've been using the kpackagekit in fedora 10 and while it is slow, seems to work as well as adept did, not that i was a fan of adept
[19:53] <jjesse> and especiallyt he adept that shipped w/ intrepid
[19:53] <seele> jjesse: for packages.  the search/filtering kindof sucks so it's hard to find only applications
[19:53] <seele> because applications are collections of packages
[19:53] <seele> for people who dont know how packages work, installing them can be very confusing
[19:53] <colomar> jjesse: Does it search in descriptions in fedora?
[19:53] <jjesse> seele: i would argue it seems more friendly then the intrepid version of adept
[19:54] <jjesse> colomar: i don't think so, i blew up my fedora vm and am rebuilding right now
[19:54] <seele> jjesse: sure but it's still not great
[19:54] <jjesse> was going to give screenshots to seele but broke it
[19:54] <seele> lol
[19:54] <apachelogger> jjesse: ha, I also b0rked mine ;-)
[19:54] <colomar> jjesse: And can it filter both by name and category?
[19:54] <jjesse> colomar: don't know, can you send me your questions via email so i remember them jjesse @ gmail dot .com
[19:54] <jjesse> like i said rebuilding my fedora vm
[19:55] <colomar> If it could search descriptions and filter both by name and category, it might work. But the current kubuntu version can't do either and thus won't help a normal user to find the app he or she needs
[19:55] <colomar> Ok, I'll do that
[20:07] <colomar> jjesse: mail is out
[20:13] <Riddell> Sime_: any idea what this is about? http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/m5478964
[20:18] <Sime_> Riddell: dunno.
[20:20] <Sime_> Riddell:  sure it is not using Qt's phonon?
[20:20] <Sime_> Riddell: it needs phonon from kdesupport.
[20:21] <apachelogger> maybe we need a more current phonon?
[20:21] <ScottK> /usr/share/apps/quassel/quassel.notifyrc or /usr/share/applications/quassel/quassel.notifyrc?
[20:22] <apachelogger> ScottK: neither
[20:22] <apachelogger> ScottK: share/kde4/apps/quassel/quassel.notifyrc
[20:22] <apachelogger> this is the issue I was trying to explain at the last meeting
[20:23]  * ScottK wasn't at the last meeting.
[20:24] <ScottK> apachelogger: /usr/share/applications/quassel.desktop too or is it good?
[20:24] <Riddell> Sime_: we don't have Qt's phonon at all
[20:24] <ScottK> Riddell: I thought we did?
[20:24] <apachelogger> ScottK: that one is good
[20:25] <apachelogger> and we make KDE phonon look like Qt's as well, by linking the diretories to the Qt tree
[20:25] <apachelogger> IIRC at least ;-)
[20:25] <ScottK> OK.  We don't.
[20:25] <ScottK> Dunno what I was thinking about.
[20:27] <apachelogger> ScottK: btw, are you using kde4.mk?
[20:27] <ScottK> apachelogger: Good point.
[20:27] <apachelogger> :)
[20:27] <Riddell> Sime_: mm, looks like our phonon is too old, mediasource.h doesn't have Empty, but it does here http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/kdesupport/phonon/phonon/mediasource.h?revision=889770&view=markup
[20:28] <Sime_> I assume that kdesupport 4.2 is a requirement for KDE 4.2.
[20:28] <apachelogger> hehe
[20:29] <apachelogger> Riddell: rdieter just sent the mail to the packagers list
[20:30] <Riddell> good it's not just me then :)
[20:31] <apachelogger> Sime_: the problem is that there is no kdesupport 4.2, nor are their tarballs created by KDE I think
[20:31] <apachelogger> Riddell: makes sense as well, I was already wondering why there is no new phonon
[20:31] <apachelogger> the one we have right now is from december 2
[20:31] <Sime_> kdesupport is vaguely released.
[20:31] <Sime_> if at all.
[20:31] <apachelogger> Sime_: well, at times it is not at all ;-)
[20:31] <Riddell> let's poke Vir
[20:32]  * Riddell does so on #kde-devel
[20:32]  * apachelogger holds backspace
[20:40]  * Riddell starts on a phonon svn package from 4.3 branch
[22:07] <Riddell> yay, kde4bindings compiled
[22:09] <ScottK> \o/
[22:15] <seele> cant.. wait.. for RC1..
[22:15] <Tm_T> seele: err, it's old
[22:15]  * Tm_T is already using 4.3 series
[22:15]  * Tm_T hides
[22:15] <seele> yeah, i guess neon is 4.3 now huh?
[22:16] <Tm_T> IIRC no
[22:16] <seele> or is it not that updated.. tagging just happened the other day
[22:16] <Tm_T> tagging was, umm, now almost a week ago?
[22:16] <vorian> the 6th
[22:16] <seele> Tm_T: earily this week
[22:17] <seele> what vorian said
[22:17] <seele> er.. earlier
[22:17] <Tm_T> hmmh
[22:17] <vorian> 4.1.4 was tagged on the 5th
[22:17] <Tm_T> I don't follow days, sorry
[22:17] <vorian> 2 and 3 days ago
[22:17] <Tm_T> baby makes sure I don't know what day or time it is
[22:18] <vorian> werd
[22:18] <vorian> or the other 4 kids
[22:20] <ScottK> 17 year old just asks me if she can go to a movie with two of her friends tomorrow.
[22:20] <ScottK> My response was that I thought it'd have to be chaperoned.
[22:20] <ScottK> She, of course asks, why?
[22:20] <Nightrose> seele: neon follows trunk so it should be what is going to be 4.3 now
[22:21] <Tm_T> Nightrose: it's updated?
[22:21] <Nightrose> not sure if it was rebuild since tagging already
[22:21] <ScottK> I mention that the 3 of them have a history of not actually going to the movie (last time involved boys and beer).
[22:21] <ScottK> She rolls eyes and leaves my office.
[22:21] <Tm_T> ScottK: say "you can go if old fellow Tm_T comes with you"
[22:21] <ScottK> ;-)
[22:21] <Tm_T> tricky way to say "no"
[22:21] <Tm_T> anyway, sleep, good night kids ->
[22:22] <Nightrose> ScottK: hehe the fun of having teanagers?
[22:22] <ScottK> Yep.
[22:22] <Nightrose> *teenagers
[22:22] <Nightrose> nini Tm_T
[22:22] <ScottK> "Fun", not fun.
[22:22] <Nightrose> *lol*
[22:25] <Riddell> I can't imagine ScottK's teenagers are any worse to keep under control than Nightrose's amarok developers :)
[22:25] <Nightrose> haha
[22:25] <Nightrose> Riddell might be right there
[22:41] <seele> ScottK: you could take her and her friends to the movie and then pick her up? or is that too much work?
[22:41]  * seele was a good kid.. until college
[22:45] <ScottK> seele: Well the last time she was taken to the movies with these two they slipped out of the theater, got picked up by the boyfriend of one of the other girls and went off and drank beer.
[22:46] <ScottK> I don't think she'll do it again, but part of the ongoing 'punishment' for the last event is less trust from us that she'll do what she says.
[22:46] <seele> hmm.. what about her inviting her friends over and watching a movie? if her boyfriend can come and be chaperoned, surely that is a compromise
[22:53] <ScottK> Yeah.  That's the kind of stuff we normally end up with.
[22:54]  * ScottK thinks some Python/KDE ninja like rgreening or JontheEchidna ought to whip up a plasmoid that out widgets RainCT (see planet)
[23:05] <cyril__> hello
[23:05] <cyril__> we can speak about kdm here ?
[23:07] <Riddell> if it has to do with Kubuntu development sure
[23:08] <cyril__> may be, not sure. It is for the /etc/init/d/kdm script
[23:09] <cyril__> in bug 298592, i think that this script sould export LANG
[23:09] <cyril__> i search some idea for this
[23:11] <Riddell> KDM /should/ use the system locale, but I suspect it doesn't
[23:12] <cyril__> under *buntu, what is the reference file / configuration for locale ?
[23:12] <Riddell> /etc/default/locale for system wide
[23:13] <Riddell> maybe just sourcing that file in /etc/init.d/kdm would help
[23:14] <cyril__> for me, yes, but for everyone ? this problem exist into 9.04 alpha
[23:15] <Riddell> cyril__: so you've tried doing that?
[23:15] <cyril__> yes, but in different way. It is imperative to export. My solution is at the bottom of the bug
[23:20] <Riddell> that seems reasonable
[23:20] <Riddell> now if only someone was working on kdebase-workspace to make that change
[23:20]  * Riddell eyes up vorian  :)
[23:20] <cyril__> with /etc/default/locale, it is possible to do this :
[23:20] <cyril__> while read var; do eval "export $var"; done < locale; unset var
[23:20] <Riddell> ". /etc/default/locale"  should work too
[23:21] <vorian> howhoe
[23:21] <cyril__> without export ? hum...
[23:21] <Riddell> oh aye, good point
[23:22] <Riddell> vorian: fancy putting the line from cyril__ above into kdm.init ?
[23:22] <vorian> yup
[23:23] <Riddell> score, thanks cyril__, vorian
[23:23]  * Riddell beds
[23:23] <vorian> Riddell: no problemo
[23:23] <vorian> cyril__: look for a fix soon, it won't be released for a few days
[23:24] <cyril__> if you can fil the bug 298592. Thank you very much. some work to found this.
[23:27] <cyril__> bye
[23:27] <vorian> thanks cyril__ :)