[10:04] <adityag> anyone there ?
[10:06] <randa> adityag: ?
[10:07] <adityag> randa: in here for a membership
[10:09] <dholbach> @schedule berlin
[10:09] <dholbach> adityag: it seems like there is no membership board meeting scheduled right now
[10:10] <dholbach> adityag: which board did you apply with?
[10:10] <adityag> dholbach: Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
[10:10] <adityag>  but i still have to add my name there
[10:10] <dholbach> 06-January-2009, 09:00 UTC was the last meeting
[10:11] <dholbach> not sure when the next one is
[10:11] <MaWaLe> adityag : you have to add your apply on the WiKi page for the next meeting
[10:12] <adityag> MaWaLe: i am just editing it, just below yours
[10:14] <MaWaLe> ad affiliate to this wiki page so on every change you'll be notified
[10:14] <MaWaLe> s/ad/and
[10:14] <adityag> MaWaLe: so did you attend it ?
[10:14] <MaWaLe> yes adityag
[10:14] <adityag> MaWaLe:
[10:14] <adityag> ok good...
[10:15] <MaWaLe> and and i'm delayed to the next meeting
[10:15] <adityag> MaWaLe: when is the next meeting ?
[10:16] <MaWaLe> still not mentioned
[10:16] <MaWaLe> but i think there will be one the next week
[10:19] <adityag> MaWaLe: ok, is this your profile ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Wajih
[10:20] <MaWaLe> adityag : you have to update your personal wiki page and to prepare a brief introduction to introduce yoursel during the meeting
[10:20] <MaWaLe> yes : it's mine
[10:20] <adityag> MaWaLe:  i have done it
[10:20] <MaWaLe> but it's not the best example to have :)
[10:23] <MaWaLe> good luck adityag
[10:24] <adityag> thanks.........same 2 u
[11:59] <lool> Hey
[12:00] <davidm> #startmeeting
[12:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 06:00. The chair is davidm.
[12:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[12:00]  * ogra waves
[12:00]  * NCommander waves 
[12:00] <davidm> hello, the Mobile Team Meeting is started. :)
[12:01]  * StevenK shores
[12:01] <ogra> heh
[12:01] <NCommander> I read that as snores
[12:01] <NCommander> anyway ...
[12:01] <davidm> welcome to the first meeting of 2009, I hope everyone had a good end of year.
[12:01] <lool> Wow it's really late for StevenK
[12:01] <ogra> persia, ?
[12:01] <StevenK> Meh, 11pm
[12:01] <persia> ogra, ?
[12:02] <ogra> ah
[12:02] <StevenK> It was the same time at the end of last year, too
[12:02] <lool> To everybody I didn't have the occasion to wish a happy new year: happy new year
[12:02] <davidm> Yea, and it's 0600 where I'm sitting so no fair grumping, I'd much rather be up at 23:00 then 06:00
[12:03]  * Hobbsee hands davidm a keg full of coffee.
[12:03] <davidm> Anyway on to the agenda at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090108
[12:03]  * StevenK isn't grumbling, just tired
[12:03] <davidm> Thank you Hobbsee, I'm needing that at the moment :)
[12:03] <Hobbsee> :)
[12:04] <lool> Actually we had actions from 2008
[12:04] <davidm> lool, I was just about to ask that.
[12:05] <ogra> bah, thats so last year
[12:05] <davidm> I need to get mootbot a better home so logs can be reached easier
[12:05] <lool> not on the wiki; need to dig log
[12:06] <lool> [action] lool to grab the UMPC image and test.
[12:06] <lool> I did that
[12:06] <lool> specs by
[12:06] <lool> EPASTE
[12:06] <lool> [action] lool, StevenK, persia, ogra to update their specs by Jan 8th
[12:06] <StevenK> I need to talk about the UMPC image, too
[12:06] <davidm> Ah found them
[12:06] <lool> Sorry, back for a sec to UMPC image: I filed a bunch of bugs, there were a bunch of issues we need to address
[12:06] <ogra> meh, i havent finished the touchscreen one yet ... (will do so before the weekend)
[12:06] <lool> log is http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/12/18/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
[12:07] <ogra> (teh BOF discussion was dumped in though, just needs proper formatting)
[12:07] <lool> Concerning specs, I didn't work on them; I'm afraid I misplanned working on them over the holidays and was sick on Mon and Tues and didn't have time to do them this week; I expect I'll do them by next week or earlier along with other tasks
[12:08] <lool> persia: I think you reviewed a bunch of specs; do you mind if I ask you for help in finding which ones I still need to look at?
[12:08] <lool> Oh right, there was [action] persia to grab unclaimed specs and update those.
[12:08] <lool> Might be why
[12:08] <persia> lool, Not at all.  I'm nearly done with the overview review, and would be happy to send you a list of things to do, although probably in 15-18 hours.
[12:08]  * ogra would be grateful for something like that as well ... the only one i can clearly say it's mine is the touchscreen thing
[12:09]  * persia accepts action to task all open specs
[12:10] <davidm> HA found mootbot log updated agenda
[12:10] <NCommander> As an aside, all the specs that were discussed during UDS have now been drafted
[12:11] <persia> At least initially.  I know I haven't completed at least 10 of the ones I wrote.
[12:11] <ogra> NCommander, all ?
[12:11] <lool> I added actions at the top of the current meeting
[12:11] <NCommander> s/all/the mobile ones/g
[12:11] <lool> davidm: Ah seems we were two :à)
[12:11] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyTouchscreenHandling is definately not done
[12:11] <ogra> (i would know that :) )
[12:12]  * NCommander inserts foot in mouth and turns left
[12:12] <davidm> [action] persia to send reminders to all on spec issues.
[12:12] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to send reminders to all on spec issues.
[12:12] <lool> Wow we wrote exactly the same text
[12:12] <davidm> [ACTION] ogra to finish the touchscreen spec  ... (will do so before the weekend)
[12:12] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to finish the touchscreen spec  ... (will do so before the weekend)
[12:12] <ogra> thanks
[12:13] <lool> persia: Cool thanks; 15-18 hours is fine
[12:13] <davidm> OK
[12:13] <lool> persia: I'll block on that and sit idle until I get it
[12:13] <davidm> let me set a belated topic
[12:13] <davidm> [topic] Action Items from Dec 18th, 2008
[12:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action Items from Dec 18th, 2008
[12:14] <persia> lool, Erm.  Don't do that.  I was planning to sleep some of those 15-18 hours.
[12:14] <davidm> [topic] lool to move UNR text to wiki page.
[12:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  lool to move UNR text to wiki page.
[12:14]  * ogra guesses lool was joking 
[12:14] <lool> I'm searching for the URL, but it's done
[12:14] <davidm> lool, great
[12:14] <lool> ogra: Ah you can see the plans in the plans
[12:14] <ogra> heh
[12:15] <lool> It was https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UNR/jaunty-integration and was merged in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/JauntyUNR
[12:15] <ogra> eeek
[12:15] <lool> (I actually only had to poke bfiller who had already done the work of listing work items on a wiki page)
[12:15] <ogra> DVD ??? !
[12:15] <davidm> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UNR/jaunty-integration
[12:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UNR/jaunty-integration
[12:15] <ogra> areally evil
[12:15] <davidm> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/JauntyUNR
[12:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/JauntyUNR
[12:16] <persia> ogra, DVDs are good, because they contain *lots* of langpacks.
[12:16] <lool> ogra: i'd skip to Modification Details for the list of things we'll actually work on right now
[12:16] <davidm> OK lool are you happy with the pages?
[12:16] <ogra> persia, DVDs are the most horrid to test
[12:16] <lool> davidm: It's a good start; we'll update it / discuss it during implementation
[12:16] <persia> I suppose.
[12:16] <lool> ogra: I think they meant .iso
[12:16] <ogra> simply because tehy are so huge
[12:16] <davidm> OK
[12:17] <ogra> lool, i dont care about the image format, but about the size
[12:17] <lool> ogra: We can build both of a DVD and an ISO
[12:17] <lool> and a CDROM sized ISO I mean
[12:17] <ogra> ah, good
[12:17] <StevenK> Can we?
[12:17] <StevenK> Who was going to break this news to me?
[12:17] <StevenK> :-P
[12:17] <persia> Anyway, there are handy ways to test DVDs: the testing team has some automation that can be leveraged.
[12:17] <davidm> lool just did
[12:17] <StevenK> That so doesn't count
[12:17] <davidm> StevenK, ^^
[12:17] <StevenK> You chickens
[12:17] <ogra> persia, doesnt make them smaller
[12:17] <lool> It's an option; these requirements were set by OEM folks; we can go back to them and tell them we're building a CD ISO for now, and would like to discuss the option of a DVD with them
[12:18] <persia> ogra, Actually, they use rsync, which makes the download smaller, but we're digressing.
[12:18] <ogra> yeah
[12:18] <lool> As in: is it a typo, do you really need it, why etc.
[12:18] <persia> And "who will be testing it?"
[12:18] <ogra> right
[12:18] <davidm> yes we are digressing
[12:18] <davidm> any actions from this right now?
[12:18] <ogra> the initial plan was to just modify the umpc image to be unr
[12:19] <StevenK> I'm working on it
[12:19] <lool> ogra: And that's how we will start; at some point we need to reconcile OEM's expectations with our implementation
[12:19] <StevenK> It's how I have started
[12:19] <lool> davidm: Don't think so, apart of implementation of the UNR spec
[12:19] <ogra> i'd like us to stick with that since all other stuff will put a lot extra work up we dont have the manpower for
[12:19] <lool> (Which doesn't need an action)
[12:19] <davidm> OK then lets move on
[12:19] <StevenK> The seeds, the meta packages and the tasks have all changed
[12:19] <davidm> [topic] StevenK to sort out seed changes
[12:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK to sort out seed changes
[12:19] <persia> It has a spec.  Specs will become actions, once I assign them :)
[12:19] <lool> StevenK, ogra: Let's bring up DVD with bfiller and others and see whether it's a firm option
[12:20] <lool> davidm: You could action that
[12:20] <StevenK> Next is livecd-rootfs and cdimage scripts
[12:20] <lool> Since there's a lot of contention on the DVD issue
[12:20] <davidm> [action] lool to  bring up DVD with bfiller and others and see whether it's a firm need
[12:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to  bring up DVD with bfiller and others and see whether it's a firm need
[12:20] <ogra> lool, i dont see us having the manpower to do any DVD work, but well
[12:20] <lool> Ah I knew it would fall on my head
[12:20] <lool> StevenK, ogra: i'll make sure you're in this discussion though
[12:20] <ogra> thanks
[12:20] <davidm> ogra, we can ask for help from OEM if DVD is critical for them for some reason
[12:21] <lool> ogra: let's not discuss this until we're sure we do one or why we need one
[12:21] <davidm> StevenK, are you happy with seeds at this point?
[12:21] <StevenK> davidm: At this point, yes.
[12:21] <davidm> OK moving on then
[12:21] <ogra> the packages need proper autostart files etc ...
[12:22] <StevenK> davidm: As soon as we have a installable image, I'll become unhappy, since I'll have to change them a lot
[12:22] <ogra> but thast for "until FF"
[12:22] <davidm> [topic] persia -> I'll move the mobile-applications to a wiki page, and send email expecting people to update it for the next meeting
[12:22]  * NCommander has some info on d-i's status on ARM
[12:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  persia -> I'll move the mobile-applications to a wiki page, and send email expecting people to update it for the next meeting
[12:22]  * persia was an abject failure
[12:22] <davidm> carry over that action then persia ?
[12:22] <persia> I put it on the agenda for today though, hoping we could assign people to each app.
[12:23] <davidm> Ah
[12:23] <davidm> OK
[12:23] <lool> I'm worried about this whole thing, even more so with one person per app
[12:23] <persia> Why more so with one person per app?
[12:23] <ogra> what would you suggest instead ?
[12:24] <lool> Well we'll do a frankenstein thing with random apps
[12:24] <persia> We each test the alternatives over the next week, and we have the answer at the next meeting?
[12:24] <ogra> we do have one already
[12:24] <StevenK> So we call Ubuntu Frankenstein and Ubuntu Frankensmaller
[12:24] <StevenK> I'll make the seed changes now
[12:24] <ogra> hehe
[12:25] <lool> haha
[12:25] <StevenK> I think we need one guy to do a 5000 foot view
[12:25] <lool> If you ask people here what mail app they prefer you'll get 4/5 different responses, same for photo viewing or text edition; I expect it will be somewhat the same in the MID case, even if everybody knows we're not biased
[12:26] <lool> Since we're basically not investing as much time on the MID image this cycle, why do we want to reconsider all apps this cycle?
[12:26] <Hobbsee> I believe the solution is "just use emacs for everything, and save space"
[12:26] <lool> (sorry for asking fundamental questions on this spec  :-/)
[12:26] <davidm> lool, that is a valid poing
[12:26] <davidm> lool, that is a valid point that is
[12:26] <persia> lool, I'm not happy with my MID.  I'd like to have a reasonable set of apps, and be happy.
[12:27]  * ogra agrees with lool
[12:27] <lool> persia: I'm not happy with it either, and I can see that this is generally needed, but also a lot of work; I also think splitting it amongst various people will result in a different but almost equally bad result
[12:27] <Hobbsee> lool: well, won't it be somewhat limited by the fact that various of the options won't fit on the screen anyway?
[12:28] <lool> Hobbsee: Sure
[12:28] <persia> lool, It's just testing the candidates to see how they work in jaunty, and whether they fit on the screen.
[12:28] <persia> I'm not suggesting people go and recode stuff or anything.
[12:29] <lool> It's some "research" of possible apps
[12:29] <lool> AIUI
[12:29] <persia> For most of them we have a list of 3-4 candidates from UDS.  It's just testing those.
[12:29] <lool> Ok; is there a list of things to check / test for them as well?
[12:29] <lool> e.g. finger-friendly
[12:30] <davidm> lool, I agree and I don't want to invest too much time on this, we don't have the cycles, but I'm willing to invest some amount of time.
[12:30] <persia> lool, There's a short "requirements" list, yes.
[12:30] <lool> I think a couple of hours of everybody's time to try out apps is fine, as long as we keep it documented in a safe place
[12:31] <lool> My personal fear is that a better solution would be to package new stuff which isn't in the archive, or improve some existing stuff
[12:31] <ogra> ++
[12:31] <lool> Say, what if there's a cool maemo.org project of a new foo app and it would be the winner would it be in our archive
[12:31] <ogra> we should not lose the overview
[12:31] <ogra> but surely not invest to much time
[12:31] <StevenK> Well, let's document stuff at least
[12:31] <persia> I don't want new stuff.  Just testing.  Some of the stuff we have doesn't work at all well, and we can just toss it out.
[12:32] <davidm> it's really late in cycle to import anything, but documenting things it OK with me.
[12:32] <lool> Ok, let's start with this research of in-archive apps as a first step then
[12:32] <davidm> persia, can you take the action to drive this, ie: list of things to check for each category?
[12:32] <lool> I agree it's useful, albeit probably not enough to chose the best apps for MID
[12:33] <persia> Sure.  It will be in the spec tomorrow.
[12:33] <persia> What I want now is people to volunteer for each class.  I'll name a class, and someone say "Me".  First always wins.
[12:33] <persia> Browser.
[12:33] <lool> We're talking of 14 categories; I expect some 20-30 apps to test and we're 7 not counting davidm
[12:33] <lool> Some probably longer than others
[12:33] <persia> RIght.  So everyone gets two.
[12:33] <davidm> [action] persia to pull together a list of things to check for MID Application Selection.
[12:33] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to pull together a list of things to check for MID Application Selection.
[12:34] <lool> I'll take calendar
[12:34] <StevenK> Heh
[12:34] <persia> I'll take the ones nobody else wants.
[12:34] <lool> and text editor
[12:34] <davidm> [action] lool to look at calendar
[12:34] <NCommander> I'll look at file managers
[12:34] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to look at calendar
[12:34] <NCommander> and ... instant messager
[12:34] <StevenK> I don't remember the categories
[12:34] <davidm> [action] lool to look at text editor
[12:34] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to look at text editor
[12:34] <lool> StevenK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090108
[12:34] <davidm> [action] NCommander to look at file managers
[12:34] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to look at file managers
[12:34] <NCommander> Disclaimer: I don't actually have a device that can run MID, so all my testing will be in a KVM image
[12:34]  * ogra takes on screen kbd
[12:34] <davidm> [action] NCommander to look at instant messager
[12:34] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to look at instant messager
[12:35] <StevenK> Feed Reader
[12:35] <StevenK> Book Reader
[12:35] <davidm> [action] ogra to look at on screen kbd
[12:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to look at on screen kbd
[12:35] <ogra> and alarm clock
[12:35] <NCommander> [action] StevenK to look at Feed Reader
[12:35] <davidm> [action] StevenK to look at Book Reader
[12:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  StevenK to look at Book Reader
[12:35] <ogra> the uglyness bothers me since a while
[12:35] <persia> StevenK, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20090108 has the categories
[12:35] <StevenK> NCommander: Needs to be davidm saying it
[12:35] <davidm> [action] ogra to look at alarm clock
[12:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to look at alarm clock
[12:35] <lool> Argh we're not 7 but 6, I counted amitk on the agenda
[12:35] <NCommander> StevenK, I thought action was a general command, oh well.
[12:36] <davidm> [action] StevenK to look at Feed Reader
[12:36] <MootBot> ACTION received:  StevenK to look at Feed Reader
[12:36] <NCommander> What''s left?
[12:36] <ogra> i was planning to look into fennec ...
[12:36] <davidm> amitk is not here
[12:36] <lool> I'm removing amitk from the agenda; he's only invited here and not present these weeks anyway
[12:36] <ogra> so i might take web browser as well
[12:36] <davidm> [action] ogra to look at web browsers
[12:36] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to look at web browsers
[12:37] <lool> I'll take address book as well then
[12:37] <davidm> ogra, I'm interested in just how good fennec is, please let me know what you think as you play with it. :-)
[12:37] <lool> There might be some overlap with email or instant messenger obviously
[12:37] <davidm> [action] lool to look at address book
[12:37] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to look at address book
[12:37] <persia> Leftovers are Document viewer, Photo Viewer, Media Player, and Onscreen Keyboard?
[12:37]  * lool long week ahead
[12:37] <ogra> i tried eth recent release on maemo and it still sucks a bit but improved
[12:37] <persia> Could someone else take one of those?
[12:38] <davidm> persia, ogra took Onscreen Keyboard
[12:38] <lool> persia: onscreen was taken by ogra
[12:38] <ogra> right
[12:38] <StevenK> ogra has Onscreen Keyboard?
[12:38] <StevenK> s/?//
[12:38] <lool> NCommander: You need to say it too
[12:38] <ogra> :)
[12:38] <davidm> so persia are you willing to take on: Document viewer, Photo Viewer, Media Player?
[12:38] <NCommander> ogra, has the onscreen keyboard? ohnos!
[12:38] <NCommander> :-P
[12:38] <lool> ;)
[12:38] <persia> Great.  I get Document Viewer, Photo Viewer, and Media Player then.  Lots of books and movies.  Hurrah!
[12:39] <ogra> persia, and i have the onscreen keyboard
[12:39] <davidm> [action] persia to review Document viewer
[12:39] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to review Document viewer
[12:39] <davidm> [action] persia to review Photo Viewer
[12:39] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to review Photo Viewer
[12:39] <davidm> [action] persia to review Media Player
[12:39] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to review Media Player
[12:40] <StevenK> At least persia won't ask me to look at elisa
[12:40] <davidm> OK are we done with this topic for now?
[12:40] <persia> Yes.  That was it.  Thanks.
[12:40]  * davidm can't wait to see the mootbot log for this one ;-)
[12:40] <ogra> heh
[12:41] <StevenK> I think my poor Q1 is still cooling down from trying to run it
[12:41] <davidm> OK then on to current business
[12:41] <davidm> [topic] status
[12:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  status
[12:41] <davidm> [topic] StevenK's status
[12:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK's status
[12:42] <ogra> asleep ?
[12:42] <davidm> apparently we have terminally overheated StevenK's Q1
[12:43] <lool> Let's go back to him later; we'll soon get his AR too
[12:43] <Hobbsee> ogra: looks like it.
[12:43] <davidm> [topic] lool's status
[12:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  lool's status
[12:43] <lool> sitting
[12:43]  * davidm grins
[12:44] <lool> General catchup done; finishing a SRU and then will be done for intrepid stuff
[12:44] <lool> Currently high on the TODO are specs and some canonical work items
[12:45] <lool> That's about it; I have a good overview of tasks to accomplish; let me know if you need something urgently from me and I didn't ack it
[12:45] <davidm> OK thanks lool
[12:45] <davidm> [topic] ogra's status
[12:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  ogra's status
[12:45] <ogra> dumped BOF notes into the touchscreen spec, no further mobile related work, did hardware enablement for some specific arm HW which doesnt belong into this meeting ...
[12:45] <ogra> and sitting as well :)
[12:46]  * davidm 10k people out of work and we have ogra for humor
[12:46] <davidm> ;-)
[12:46] <ogra> heh
[12:46] <lool> StevenK has some connectivity issues with freenode, will be back shortly we hope
[12:47] <ogra> tahts it for this week from my side :)
[12:47] <StevenK> I'm here
[12:47] <davidm> Ah OK
[12:47] <davidm> [topic] StevenK's status
[12:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK's status
[12:47] <davidm> bringing back StevenK status
[12:48] <StevenK> I did armel stuff after UDS before breaking up, I've mostly been working on moving UMPC to UNR
[12:49] <davidm> StevenK, thanks, anything else to add?
[12:49] <StevenK> Nope
[12:50] <davidm> [topic] NCommander's status
[12:50] <MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander's status
[12:50] <NCommander> ENOCOFFEE, EBROKENCOFFEEMAKER, ENOSLEEP, EXRANDRISEVIL, WLOWCOKE, WLOWCAFFIENE, WCOLD, ISITTING
[12:50] <NCommander> I drafted a couple of the UDS specs for the mobile, which I'm running through Steve
[12:51] <NCommander> Before Christmas, I also managed to get MID semi-working on ARM (I think the issue with gnome-settings-manager has been resolved, so it probably will work should I take another stab at it)
[12:52] <NCommander> That's all I got.
[12:52] <NCommander> oh wait
[12:52] <lool> haha
[12:53] <NCommander> I would also like to join the ubuntu-mobile team :-)
[12:53] <davidm> Ah, we need to vote on that I think, correct persia?
[12:53] <StevenK> Denied. Next!
[12:53]  * StevenK grins evilly
[12:53]  * persia digs up the records for the policy
[12:54] <persia> Right.  Applicants need to have contributed some stuff, and then need to get votes from current team members.
[12:54] <lool> I think you need a couple more months as a MOTU before joining the mobile team -- nahh just kidding, I'm +1
[12:54] <persia> So, votes from current team members (LP: ~ubuntu-mobile)
[12:55] <StevenK> Ooooh.
[12:55] <ogra> +
[12:55] <StevenK> That could draw blood, lool
[12:55] <ogra> 1
[12:55] <davidm> davidm, +1
[12:55] <StevenK> +1
[12:55] <persia> +1 from me: the architecture-neutral stuff was great.
[12:55] <lool> ogra is writing vertically now
[12:56] <ogra> y
[12:56] <ogra> e
[12:56] <ogra> a
[12:56] <ogra> h
[12:56] <lool> xrandr to the rescue
[12:56] <ogra> :
[12:56] <ogra> )
[12:56] <StevenK> Oh, sigh
[12:56] <NCommander> lool, that's an improvement, last night my LCDs were upside down to make my world right side up
[12:56]  * StevenK retroactively slaughters ogra 
[12:56]  * ogra bleeds on the floor
[12:56] <lool> So I think we have enough +1s
[12:56] <StevenK> At least he didn't do /\nm\ne\n
[12:56] <lool> And still two status reports to fit in 4 minutes
[12:56] <davidm> OK works for me, NCommander welcome to the team
[12:57] <davidm> [topic] persia's status
[12:57] <MootBot> New Topic:  persia's status
[12:57] <NCommander> INEWLPBADGE,IWOO
[12:57]  * StevenK shifts NCommander out of Zope context
[12:58] <persia> Oh, I've just been reading specs, determining what needs to be done, and who's likely to care.  I fixed a couple specs that people whined about specifically.
[12:58] <davidm> persia, anything else?
[12:59] <persia> Nope.
[12:59] <davidm> [topic] davidm's status
[12:59] <MootBot> New Topic:  davidm's status
[12:59] <davidm> I've been reading specs and in meeting with other teams to update specs
[12:59] <davidm> getting ready to present Ubuntu Mobile at LCA
[12:59] <davidm> and that's it for now'
[13:00] <davidm> OK
[13:00] <davidm> we are out of time
[13:00] <davidm> #endmeeting
[13:00] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:00.
[13:00] <davidm> thanks everyone
[13:01] <lool> davidm: thanks for chairing
[13:02] <ogra> thanks
[14:03] <persia> Anyone here for the Java Meeting?
[14:04] <slytherin> persia: yup. :-)
[14:04] <ludovicc> yes
[14:05] <persia> OK.  No special agenda this week (see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting)
[14:06] <persia> Roadmap then.
[14:06] <persia> robilad isn't here, so we'll skip that part (really not expecting much progress until the Maven stuff is complete anyway).
[14:06] <persia> slytherin, How is MoveToUniverse going?
[14:07] <ludovicc> I'm working on the Maven stuff ;-)
[14:07] <slytherin> persia: not much to do there except jboss for which I have logged the bug already.
[14:07] <persia> slytherin, So we're basically caught up with Debian at this point, and to get further requires real research on the copyright state of things?
[14:08] <slytherin> persia: we are almost caught up with Debian. Whatever packages are remaining are not high profile packages.
[14:09] <persia> OK.  Are you expecting to move ahead of Debian, or work with Debian on MoveToMain, and then keep up-to-date?
[14:11] <slytherin> As of now I just plan to get in sync with Debian.
[14:11] <persia> OK.  Anything blocking?  Need any help?
[14:12] <slytherin> nothing blocking. I will bug some archive admin for jboss bug. But that's it.
[14:12] <persia> OK.  Next, is Maven.
[14:12] <persia> ludovicc, As Koon is away today, could you give us a quick precis of status on that effort?
[14:13] <ludovicc> I'm working with Debian (Torsten Werner) to build Maven projects in Debian
[14:14] <slytherin> ludovicc: I didn't know you were involved. :-)
[14:15] <ludovicc> Torstern has released a 0.1 version of maven-debian-helper, which contains cdbs rules for Maven
[14:15] <persia> Are you using the bootstrap guide from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Specs/MavenSupportSpec or another resource?
[14:15] <ludovicc> this version is still a bit rough, as it requires patching Maven pom files
[14:16] <ludovicc> currently it's using Torsten's specs, defined here http://wiki.debian.org/Java/MavenBuilder
[14:17] <ludovicc> as I have implemented something which was more around the lines of MavenSupportSpec, I'm trying to merge both ideas together
[14:17] <persia> Cool!
[14:18] <persia> Any big issues, or just a lot of little things on a per-package basis?
[14:18] <ludovicc> currently software built with Maven is deployed to /usr/share/maven-repo
[14:19] <ludovicc> the issue is with packages which were not built with Maven in mind, we need to include them somehow in the Debian Maven repository
[14:20] <ludovicc> my idea currently is to create a dependency map, following the model of JPackage, and it maps the Maven structure (groupId/artifactId) to the location of the jar in Debian
[14:22] <ludovicc> so I will add this dependency map to maven-debian-helper, and this should solve the issue with building packages mixing Maven and non-Maven built packages
[14:22] <persia> On a per-package basis, or generally?
[14:22] <persia> Would that need updating for each new Java package introduced?
[14:23] <ludovicc> per-package, but only for new packages which are built with Maven
[14:24] <ludovicc> there will be some duplication, but it's better than upgrading all existing packages to include support for Maven
[14:24] <persia> OK, so Maven-built packages that depend on legacy packages need glue, but everything else can be left alone, and the glue is added only based on the build-dependencies of the new package?
[14:24] <ludovicc> exactly
[14:25] <persia> OK.  That's workable.  You're discussing this with Torsten?
[14:25] <ludovicc> yes I am
[14:26] <ludovicc> Torsten has already released quite a few new packages, you can see them here
[14:26] <ludovicc> deb http://people.debian.org/~twerner/ ./
[14:26] <persia> Excellent!  These are in experimental already?
[14:27] <ludovicc> yes, or maybe even in unstable, I don't remember exactly
[14:27] <ludovicc> how can we get those new packages in Ubuntu Jaunty, once they are in Debian?
[14:28] <slytherin> some of them are perhaps in unstable, some in experimental. I am filing sync bugs for them as and when they can be built in pbuilder chroot for jaunty.
[14:30] <persia> ludovicc, Anything else outstanding?  Any blockers?  Do you need help?
[14:31] <persia> ludovicc, ?
[14:31] <ludovicc> no blockers, but I will need other people to test and build new Maven packages when  maven-debian-helper is more advanced
[14:32] <ludovicc> also, it would help if somebody could package the remaining Maven plugins, there are > 20 of them, plus what can be found on other places (mojo.codehaus.org)
[14:32] <slytherin> ludovicc: sure once the complete tool chain is in Ubuntu.
[14:32] <persia> OK.  When you get to that point, please let us know: there's a few Java packagers that might be able to help.
[14:33] <ludovicc> sure
[14:33] <ludovicc> I will need help to move the tool chain to Ubuntu, as I don't know how that process works
[14:34] <persia> Mostly just requires sync requests.
[14:34] <ludovicc> where do you file them?
[14:34] <persia> slytherin, Could you walk ludovicc through the process after the meeting?
[14:35] <slytherin> persia: sure.
[14:35] <persia> Thanks.
[14:35] <persia> OK.  Next up: dropping Sun Java 5.
[14:35] <persia> slytherin, did you finish drafting the spec for that?  I don't see a link yet.
[14:35] <slytherin> persia: I never started. :-(
[14:36] <persia> Do you still have time to do it, or do you need someone else to do that?
[14:36] <slytherin> I don't mind if someone else takes over.
[14:36] <persia> OK.  I'll write up a spec for that, and push it through the approvals process.
[14:37] <persia> I'll also accept assignment for the Roadmap item.
[14:37] <persia> Do you know of any specific packages that will break without it?
[14:38] <slytherin> No. All the packages which use sun specific APIs seem to build/run fine with openjdk.
[14:38] <persia> Excellent.  I like it when I inherit easy work :)
[14:39] <persia> OK.  Next up: open discussion.  Anyone have anything else they want to add?
[14:39] <slytherin> nothing from my side.
[14:39] <persia> ludovicc, ?
[14:40] <ludovicc> is there a plan to upgrade the Java IDEs to their latest versions?
[14:40] <ludovicc> Eclipse 3.4 and Netbeans 6.5
[14:40] <ludovicc> (big task!)
[14:40] <persia> I think everyone is hiding from eclipse, from what I've heard.
[14:40] <persia> I'll check on netbeans now.
[14:42] <slytherin> AFAIK, few people from debian-java are working on Eclipse. But debian-java moves very slow these days with regards to sponsorship.
[14:42] <persia> Indeed: the netbeans crew is working on netbeans 6.5 packaging, and so we should be good.
[14:42] <ludovicc> nice to know!
[14:43] <ludovicc> no more questions at this point
[14:44] <persia> OK.  Until next week then.  Thanks all.
[14:44] <slytherin> bye
[14:44] <ludovicc> ah, where is this Netbeans team?
[14:45] <persia> Distributed.  I think most of them are in Prague and Petersberg, but I'm not 100% sure.
[14:47] <ludovicc> ok, so the Sun developers are actually taking care of packaging the IDE, not the Debian community
[14:47] <persia> Well, the NetBeans Community, but yes.
[14:47] <ludovicc> ok, thanks. See you