[01:15] <maxb> This is a bit of a weird question... but where does the GNOME panel network monitor get its data from?
[01:16] <maxb> I'm experimenting with madwifi-hal on my Asus Aspire One, because ath5k seems somewhat less than reliable
[01:16] <maxb> And it seems to work... except that the monitor shows phantom network activity for no clear reason
[01:25] <raw> hello everyone - is this the correct place to get some help on new desktop install?
[07:33] <crevette> good morning
[09:22] <huats> morning all
[09:23] <mvo> hey huats
[09:25] <huats> hey mvo :)
[09:25] <huats> and seb128 :)
[09:26] <seb128> lut huats
[09:32] <mvo> slomo: I mailed tim about the preformance issues with the bbc plugin with the new codec install stuff, should I forward the mail to you as well ? I guess that is a good idea maybe you have some good ideas as well
[09:32] <mvo> slomo: I think otherwise we can do a new upload to experimental and sync into ubuntu
[09:33] <mvo> not quite ready in all points but a good step forward
[09:56] <slomo> mvo: yeah, please CC me :) tim told me about your mail and asked me some questions already ;) also, please upload it when you think it's ready :)
[09:56] <mvo> slomo: slomo(at)debian.org ?
[09:58] <mvo> slomo: bounced
[10:00] <slomo> thanks :)
[10:01] <mvo> slomo: feedback welcome. I can publish the current patch (that takes too long :) if needed - but its pretty trivial
[10:01] <slomo> mvo: essentially you're interating over all packages and do what gnome-codec-install does?
[10:05] <mvo> slomo: yes
[10:07] <mvo> slomo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/bbc_totem_plugin_new_codec_install_system.diff
[10:07] <slomo> why is it that slow? in gnome-codec-install it's less than 5 seconds here
[10:07] <mvo> slomo: have you tried it with a cold cache? its fast when the its in the disk cache
[10:08] <slomo> ah
[10:08] <mvo> I think its perfectly acceptable for g-c-i because it needs to do it only once for each missing codec
[10:08] <mvo> but the bbc plugin does this check on each startup :/
[10:08] <slomo> i guess you don't have an idea how to improve that in the BBC plugin? :) it needs this information to only show those files for which codecs can be installed
[10:09] <mvo>  echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
[10:09] <mvo> to simulate it
[10:09] <mvo> yeah
[10:10] <mvo> its tricky, we can always generate a static cached version and use that but that removes a lot of the flexibility we have with the new system
[10:11] <mpt> "The configuration file /etc/default/console-setup specifies a keyboard layout and variant that are not supported by the configuration program.  Because of that, no questions about the keyboard layout will be asked and your current configuration will be preserved."
[10:11] <slomo> mvo: maybe add a button to the totem BBC plugin to "refresh codec information" and use a static version there ;)
[10:12]  * mpt doesn't understand that
[10:13] <slomo> mpt: that file contains a keyboard setting that is not known by the configuration program so instead of offering you some questions to change it (and you have to change it to something else then) it simply takes the values from there instead of asking questions
[10:13] <mvo> slomo: hm, good idea, thinking about it we could a cache what packages/versions we have seen already
[10:14] <mvo> slomo: or cheat (I like cheating!)
[10:14] <mvo> slomo: and only inspect packages that have the word gstreamer in them
[10:14]  * mvo likes htis idea
[10:14] <slomo> is it much faster then?
[10:14]  * crevette was thinking about htat
[10:15] <mpt> slomo, what configuration program?
[10:15] <mpt> this came up when I was installing updates
[10:15] <slomo> mpt: the debconf stuff of console-setup i guess
[10:15] <mvo> slomo: yes, should be - what makes it slow is reading the package records, the information "name, dependencies etc are all cache in a (faster) mmap strcutrue"
[10:15]  * mvo can't type
[10:16] <slomo> seb128: you want to sync gstreamer0.10 0.10.21.2-3 later, fixes FTBFS for binary-arch ;)
[10:16] <mvo> mpt: that comes striaght from debconf, cjwatson is probably someone to talk to about it
[10:16] <slomo> mvo: ok, that would work too then :)
[10:16] <mvo> slomo: I try it now, thanks for you input :)
[10:16]  * mvo hugs slomo
[10:16]  * slomo hugs mvo 
[10:16] <seb128> slomo: yeah, I was going to do that, thanks for the following on those issues ;-)
[10:17] <mvo> mpt: I assume you did not edit /etc/defaul/console-setup by hand?
[10:17] <slomo> mvo: this won't work for bluez-audio then but OTOH it doesn't contain any codecs, just an audio sink ;) iirc all other packages contain gstreamer in their name
[10:18] <mvo> slomo: I could check dependencies too, slightly more expansive but still cheaper than the record
[10:18] <slomo> no, the name is good enough IMHO :)
[10:18] <mvo> mpt: actually it might be a caused by the global keyboard config button ...
[10:18] <mvo> slomo: ok
[10:23] <mpt> mvo, I think I haven't ever edited it by hand
[10:23] <mvo> slomo: it looks like this brought it from 30s to less than 1 sec
[10:23]  * mvo likes that
[10:24] <soren> asac: I forget... Did you want me to remind you this week or next week about the plugin finder database update?
[10:26] <slomo> mvo: sounds good :)
[10:27]  * mvo goes and patches totem 
[10:29] <asac> soren: lets make that next week ;). is that good enough for you?
[10:37] <soren> asac: Sure.
[10:59] <didrocks> hey all
[10:59] <slomo> seb128: please sync gstreamer0.10 0.10.21.2-3, not -2 ;)
[10:59] <seb128> slomo: too late
[11:00] <seb128> slomo: what is broken in -2?
[11:00] <slomo> the binary-indep detection is broken and it will fail the same way as -1 :)
[11:00] <slomo> i mean, it will fail unless binary-indep is built too
[11:01] <seb128> ok, will sync -3 when it's available
[11:01] <slomo> thanks :)
[11:49] <huats> mvo: a tricky question for you (seb128 told me to ask you)
[11:49] <seb128> it's not really tricky ;-)
[11:49] <huats> do you know a way to compare 2 OR MORE debian package version number
[11:49] <huats> dpkg --compare-version only take 2 arguments
[11:49] <huats> I will be interested in more
[11:57] <soren> What would the expected output be?
[11:58] <huats> soren: I don't mind
[11:58] <huats> :)
[11:58] <huats> I would adapt myself :)
[12:54] <maxb> huats: So, you want to sort a list of debian version numbers?
[12:55] <huats> maxb: yep
[12:56] <maxb> in Python:   import apt_pkg; apt_pkg.init(); lots_of_versions.sort(apt_pkg.VersionCompare)
[12:59] <huats> maxb: ok
[13:00] <huats> thanks I  try that
[13:17] <mvo> seb128: can you please sync gnome-codec-install from debian incoming ?
[13:30] <seb128> mvo: done
[13:31] <seb128> mvo: and NEWed too
[13:38] <mvo> thanks seb128
[13:38] <seb128> mvo: you're welcome
[13:38] <seb128> mvo: you are switching jaunty to it now?
[13:39] <mvo> seb128: yes, not quite yet but soon, its in good shape
[13:39] <seb128> mvo: cool, let me know if you need some help testing it
[13:40] <mvo> seb128: just install it and play with it, should work already (the totem bbc plugin got ported too with the latest upload)
[13:40] <mvo> the bbc plugin is pretty cool too IMO :)
[13:40] <seb128> yeah
[13:40] <seb128> a bit slow
[13:40] <seb128> but cool
[13:40] <mvo> the bbc plugin? or the codec search stuff?
[13:41] <seb128> the bbc thing, or a least it needs to download the index which can take some time over a slow internet connection
[13:41] <mvo> aha, yes
[13:41] <mvo> its pretty fast for me, but I have a good line
[13:41] <seb128> we got quite some bugs about it in the first version
[13:42] <mvo> seb128: is it better now?
[13:42] <seb128> because it was downloading at the totem startup and people where wondering why totem was freezen for a minutes before starting to play anything
[13:42] <mvo> oh - yeah :)
[13:42] <seb128> now it only download when you select the bbc option
[13:42] <seb128> so that's ok ;-)
[13:43] <pedro_> hello folks ;-)
[13:43] <mvo> hey pedro_
[13:43] <seb128> hey pedro_
[13:44] <seb128> pedro_: how are you? not too hard to catch up on all those bugs?
[13:44] <seb128> pedro_: I was busy on GNOME 2.25.4 this week but I'll bug triage next week
[13:47] <seb128> cassidy: there?
[13:47] <cassidy> seb128: I am
[13:48] <seb128> cassidy: do you have any clue about the telepathy-glib version that is likely to go into jaunty?
[13:48] <seb128> cassidy: or do you know who would know?
[13:48] <cassidy> seb128: I'd say the more recent, the better is
[13:48] <cassidy> why? is there a problem with it ?
[13:48] <seb128> cassidy: is there any schedule about coming tarballs?
[13:48] <seb128> cassidy: no, I just got asked by somebody else
[13:49] <cassidy> don't know. I'm not really working on tp-glib
[13:49] <cassidy> but we recently fixed some nasty crashes so it would be good to have a recent version
[13:49] <cassidy> not sure if we already release with them though
[13:50] <cassidy> seb128: bigon is the Telepathy Ubuntu guy :)
[13:50] <bigon> telepathy-glib |   0.7.20-1 | jaunty/universe | sourc
[13:50] <cassidy> when is the freeze deadline ?
[13:51] <seb128> cassidy: 2009-03-nn I guess ;-)
[13:52] <cassidy> ok so that shouldn't be a problem
[13:53] <seb128> right
[13:54] <seb128> bigon: hey, I got asked if you plan to update empathy in jaunty btw ;-)
[13:55] <bigon> seb128: I'm waiting that the new version goes throught the debian new queue
[13:55] <seb128> bigon: ah, you already started on GNOME 2.25 in debian?
[13:55] <seb128> ok
[13:56] <seb128> bigon: there is no ubuntu change remaining?
[13:56] <seb128> ie, you are waiting to sync?
[13:57] <Zdra> seb128: jaunty already has 2.25.3, no? 2.25.4 was released recently
[13:57] <bigon> there is only one patch remaining, I must discuss about it with zdra (again)
[13:57] <bigon> .2 in jaunty
[13:58] <seb128> Zdra: 2.25.2
[13:59] <Zdra> bigon: there is 1 patch in debian package for latest release, a hot fix already committed in trunk
[13:59] <Zdra> and 1 ubuntu patch... but we already discussed it
[13:59] <seb128> it can be a good idea to upload the debian version as 0ubuntu1 to bypass new and ask a sync when it'll be newed in debian
[14:00] <bigon> Zdra: but we should discuss it again :p
[14:00] <bigon> seb128: ok I will do that when I have some time
[14:00] <seb128> cool
[14:01] <Zdra> bigon: my opinion is it has absolutely nothing to do in a ubuntu package, if you want to discuss attach the patch on an upstream bug
[14:01] <bigon> Zdra: you already close the bug as notfix
[14:02] <Zdra> with a good reason IIRC
[14:03] <seb128> what is the change about there?
[14:03] <Zdra> seb128: tabs on chat window does not take the full width in ubuntu
[14:04] <seb128> that seems to make sense
[14:04] <seb128> that's what other GNOME software do
[14:04] <seb128> why don't you want to use that change?
[14:04] <Zdra> seb128: that's not what gnome-terminal does
[14:05] <Zdra> what I don't like is: 1) contact that have long alias (all msn contacts) the tab takes the full width and other conversations are hidden, you have to scroll it. 2) tabs have variant width which makes harder to close them
[14:06] <Zdra> in fact there is absolutely no rule for tab width, each app have different behaviour
[14:06] <seb128> that's a discussion to take upstream
[14:06] <seb128> but most GNOME software do it the other way
[14:06] <seb128> ie gedit
[14:06] <seb128> nautilus
[14:07] <Zdra> seb128: wrong
[14:07] <seb128> ?
[14:08] <Zdra> seb128: gedit has variable tab width, nautilus has fixed width
[14:08] <seb128> which means 3 applications and 3 different ways
[14:08] <Zdra> gnome-terminal uses the full width and gives the same size for each tab
[14:09] <Zdra> and empathy has a 4th way: tab are shown even if there is only one
[14:09] <seb128> that should really be discussed upstream then
[14:09] <seb128> on desktop-devel-list
[14:09] <seb128> would be nice to have HIG recommendations on that
[14:09] <seb128> and a standard behaviour
[14:10] <Zdra> seb128: I agree that it must be discussed upstream, even if the answer could really be "it depends on the usage of the application"
[14:10] <seb128> why would it depend?
[14:11] <Zdra> seb128: it makes sense for empathy to always show the tab (even if only one) because there is more info in it (type notification, presence icon, etc)
[14:12] <seb128> maybe the tab is not the only or the best way to display those though
[14:12] <dobey> pidgin solves that problem by putting the information in like 5 different places in the same window :-/
[14:12] <Zdra> dobey: exactly why I take pidgin as an example of what is wrong
[14:12]  * bigon is quite happy to have launch this discussion :p
[14:12] <dobey> Zdra: yes, but because pidgin is wrong/crap, doesn't mean empathy is right, either :)
[14:13] <Zdra> dobey: sure
[14:13] <Zdra> I'm open to discussion, but I don't like ubuntu adding patches like that where upstream explicitely said it is not that easy
[14:13] <dobey> also the HIG does have recommendations on this
[14:13] <dobey> but nobody seems to follow them any more
[14:14] <dobey> the HIG's position is "don't do MDI"
[14:16] <seb128> Zdra: right, the patch has been quickly added, I think the intend was to try to standardize the desktop applications which is probably something we will do at some point even if upstream doesn't but that was not really discussed there and a bit quickly
[14:20] <Zdra> seb128: if it is a decision of ubuntu's desktop team that was discussed, I can accept it, there is no problem. But I think it is just a maintainer pushing for its own personal feeling and ignoring upstream (was not bigon).
[14:20] <seb128> Zdra: right, Keybuk did the change I think
[14:20] <Zdra> anyway, it's not that important :)
[14:21] <seb128> Zdra: no that was not discussed, but there was some specs already about standardizing the tabs behaviour between applications though
[14:21] <seb128> right
[14:22] <bigon> I will drop a mail to gnome usuability ml maybe
[14:23] <crevette> I think this is already a bug about that, I remember hub telling me that back in 2005
[16:07] <seb128> vuntz: there to talk about gnome-session?
[16:08] <vuntz> seb128: euh, j'ai piscine ?
[16:08] <vuntz> :-)
[16:09] <seb128> vuntz: t'es pas crédible ;-)
[16:09] <vuntz> had to try
[16:09] <seb128> vuntz: do you run current 2.25? is the new mixer applet correctly autostarted for you?
[16:09] <vuntz> seb128: no, I only have a jhbuilt 2.25
[16:10] <seb128> vuntz: I get timeout error for the /usr/share/gnome/autostart desktop, could be due to gnome-wm which is installed there on ubuntu though
[16:10] <huats> seb128: Guess who has a nice hack of check-symbols :)
[16:10] <vuntz> seb128: let me update gnome-media and see on jhbuild
[16:10] <seb128> huats: cool ;-) try to get #ubuntu-motu to review and upload it then
[16:10] <seb128> vuntz: thanks
[16:10] <huats> seb128: that is too much of a hack....
[16:10] <huats> but I'l try :)
[16:10] <seb128> vuntz: do you use gnome-wm in opensuse? or did you do the compiz fallback thing an another way?
[16:11] <vuntz> seb128: we use gnome-wm too
[16:14] <seb128> vuntz: do you get timeout errors in your .xsession-errors? I had the same error on 2.24
[16:18] <vuntz> I get a timeout for the new volume control stuff, indeed
[16:18] <vuntz> I can't see a timeout for gnome-wm on my .xsession-errors, but that doesn't mean anything ;-)
[16:20] <seb128> ok
[16:20] <seb128> vuntz: if you get the timeout too that means that's not ubuntu specific which is already something ;-)
[16:21] <seb128> vuntz: thanks for testing
[16:43] <crevette> hey
[16:43] <crevette> seb128: hello
[16:43] <seb128> lut crevette
[16:43] <crevette>  I was not able to package latest gnome-nettol due to a patch I wasn't able to  update (03_autoconf)
[16:44] <crevette> I should just run autoconf to update the patch ?
[16:46] <seb128> what issue did you get when trying to update it?
[16:48] <crevette> let me try again
[16:53] <seb128> crevette: usually want to want to do is
[16:54] <seb128> go to the source, move the patch away, run cdbs-edit-patch, autoconf, clean the cache dir, and close the patch edit
[16:55] <crevette> it is what I did but if I look at the patch, the files modified are not the same, the original touched configure and aclocal.m4
[16:55] <crevette> twith the new one, I do what you said and it touches only configure
[16:58] <seb128> crevette: that's not an issue, the aclocal change was probably because upstream didn't use the same autotools version
[16:58] <seb128> crevette: if they do now only the configure change
[16:58] <crevette> okay
[17:06] <crevette> seb128: okay, now gnome-nettool FTBFS
[17:06] <seb128> crevette: what error?
[17:07] <crevette> hmmm, missing variable, probable lpi patch I modified
[17:07] <crevette> probably
[17:36] <crevette> seb128: okay I fixed all the remaining problem with gnome-nettool
[17:37] <seb128> crevette: cool
[18:08] <pedro_> seb128: the retracers are working again?
[18:08] <seb128> pedro_: yes, why?
[18:08] <seb128> pedro_: you didn't notice the bug mails about retracing? ;-)
[18:09] <pedro_> seb128: i did but with a lot of failed ones, now i'm getting a few with good ones ;-)
[18:09]  * pedro_ happy
[18:09] <pedro_> seb128: thanks you
[18:09] <seb128> you're welcome
[18:09] <seb128> the not good ones were the one we got during the time they were not running
[18:09] <seb128> versions changed meanwhile and the retracing didn't work correctly
[18:09] <seb128> new bugs should be working now
[18:10] <seb128> brb, trying other changes
[18:10] <pedro_> nice nice nice
[18:10] <pitti> pedro_: working on it as fast as I can...
[18:10]  * pedro_ hugs pitti
[18:10] <pedro_> you rock ;-)
[18:10]  * pitti hugs pedro_
[18:10] <pitti> SystemError: E:I wasn't able to locate file for the mesa-utils package. This might mean you need to manually fix this package.
[18:10] <pitti> WTF?
[18:10] <pitti> mvo: ^ what does that mean?
[18:11] <pitti> mvo: (from "if not pm.GetArchives(fetcher, self._list, self._records):")
[20:00] <fta> seb128: could you do something for fennec? it's stuck in the NEW queue since last year.
[20:00] <seb128> fta: what is fennec?
[20:01] <fta> a browser, kind of firefox for mobile but also usable on the desktop for web/addons developpers
[20:02] <fta> it's in my ppa too, if you want to see it running
[20:05] <seb128> fta: ok, that's not for today, I've to run a few minutes and it's probably going to take longer than that to review but I'll try to have a look next week
[20:06] <fta> seb128, it's a really small package but it's ok
[20:06] <fta> je ne suis plus à un jour près :P
[20:07] <Tm_T> fta: kiitos samoin
[20:08] <fta> Tm_T, :)
[21:58] <johanbr> On a fresh install of the Jaunty daily build from today, Nautilus segfaults when I plug in a usb drive. Is this known?
[21:58] <Tm_T> johanbr: ooh, that's great!
[21:59] <johanbr> it is?
[22:02] <crevette> this is know by me at least
[22:03] <crevette> I had that few time and when I tried to chase it disappeared
[22:03] <crevette> if you can have a stacktrace it would be cool I guesse
[22:14] <johanbr> crevette: alright, I'll see what I can find. thanks