sconklincjwatson: thanks. So since we'd like to deliver a small change to pm-utils with jaunty in order to support reporting of suspend/resume failures, what's the best way to do that? Sorry, I'm just venturing into ubuntu userspace . . .00:00
cjwatsonStevenK: remember that the same BuildLiveCD code is used to support older distributions too. I rather suggest that you leave the old names around00:00
StevenKcjwatson: And remove support from livecd.sh ?00:01
cjwatsonsconklin: file a bug on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pm-utils/+filebug, attach patch00:01
cjwatsonsconklin: and hunt around early next week for somebody to upload it00:01
sconklinhaha, ok. thanks00:01
cjwatsonStevenK: livecd.sh lives in the release-specific chroot so doesn't matter so much00:02
cjwatsonStevenK: rest looks fine00:02
cjwatsonStevenK: BTW, please commit the substantive changes separately from the UNRELEASED -> jaunty bit00:02
sconklintime to put food on my family . . .00:02
StevenKcjwatson: Hmm. Why?00:03
cjwatsonStevenK: it generally produces a more readable log if you go "commit change, commit change, commit change, dch -r, debcommit -r"00:03
sconklinsorry, that's a regional joke00:03
cjwatsonso it's easy to see in 'bzr log' where the upload points were00:03
sconklinGeorge W Bush once said "You're working hard to put food on your family"00:04
directhexsconklin, the greatest president said many inspired things00:04
sconklinmaybe so, but GWB said that last one00:05
ArneGoetjeslangasek: hardy translations export has been finished a few minutes ago. Import into langpack-o-matic is running. ETA in 3.5h.00:33
ArneGoetjecjwatson: ^00:49
BenBdrescher.canonical.com broken: http://pastebin.ca/1304823 - who to contact?01:16
crimsundoesn't seem broken, just takes a bit to respond01:18
BenBno, it never responds...01:18
BenBnevermind, though... it works from another network, so it's local horkage, sorry.01:19
BenByes, my stupid DSL router resetted the MTU.01:20
=== tritium_ is now known as tritium
ArneGoetjeslangasek, cjwatson: uploading hardy base language-packs to hardy-proposed.03:58
=== bluesmoke_ is now known as Amaranth
=== LucidFox_ is now known as LucidFox
slangasekArneGoetje: ah, huzzah!07:40
slangasekArneGoetje, cjwatson: langpacks accepted07:46
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LordMetroidWhere should I file a bug report that you can not rename files from example foo to Foo in nautilis?12:23
=== ziroday` is now known as ziroday
Adri2000LordMetroid: bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus12:50
Adri2000LordMetroid: on what kind of partition do you have this problem?12:51
LordMetroidext3 I think it is running12:51
LordMetroidYou mean you do not have this problem?12:51
LordMetroidI thought it would be an universal occurence12:51
Hobbseedo the files show up with locks next to them?12:52
LordMetroidthey are like normal12:52
* Adri2000 has the problem with fat32 partitions12:52
LordMetroidIt is just that it says that the file already exists if I try to change the capitalization of the name12:52
Adri2000but I think it's not a bug, it's just because fat32 is not case-sensitive12:52
HobbseeLordMetroid: well, does it?12:52
Hobbseea Foo?12:52
LordMetroidAhh, I see it does that on Fat3212:53
LordMetroidThe usb memorystcik must be fat3212:53
StevenKfat32 filesystems are case-insensitive12:54
Adri2000so mv test TEST doesn't work. but mv test test2 and mv test2 TEST works12:55
LordMetroidStevenK, should be possible to code a hack for this12:56
LordMetroidBug filed, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/315782 hopefully in the future one can change capitalization on files, making renaming files more intuitive12:58
ubottuUbuntu bug 315782 in nautilus "Change of capitalization in filenames on FAT32" [Undecided,New]12:58
LordMetroidThat was a neat bot12:59
cjwatsonAdri2000: while FAT32 isn't case-sensitive, it is case-preserving, and therefore this is a bug13:05
Adri2000ok. if it's a bug then mv is affected as well13:11
theunixgeekIt's success story time! I got a friend to switch her office computer over to Ubuntu. I spent about 7 minutes setting it up to have a more familiar Windows-like look with only one panel, with only the relevant applications in the application menu. Now, she's loving it! Switching over from Vista, she says the interface looks much brighter, cleaner, and easier to use! Thank you, developers! :D13:12
theunixgeekand she finds it to be more stable as well13:12
LordMetroidYeah, I am seriously wishing to use Ubuntu for on my dekstop as well... But then I will have problems with games that I wish to run13:15
theunixgeekLordMetroid: dual boot? :)13:15
LordMetroidAdding dual boot want solve the problem, then I would need to reboot too much and I would just boot into windows cause I know I am going to play games13:16
theunixgeekI see :(13:18
theunixgeekwell, good luck :)13:19
LordMetroidIndeed, it suck but little one can do about the gaming industry13:20
theunixgeekLordMetroid: what country are you from?13:24
theunixgeekcool. I've been looking into Swedish for a while :)13:24
LordMetroidReally, that not something I had expected someone to do13:24
theunixgeekI just noticed some different word order, so I knew you were neither American nor British13:24
theunixgeekwhy not? it's a cool language :)13:25
theunixgeekbesides, it's Germanic, so it'll be relatively easy to learn13:25
LordMetroidYes, indeed... the words will come easy the grammar I hear is relatively complex but that shouldn't deterr you, once you know Swedish you can also communicate, read and understand danish and norweigan and to a certain extent icelandic13:26
theunixgeekJag gillar svenska :)13:26
LordMetroidand to a certain extent german13:26
theunixgeekI've been studying German for a few weeks now, and I noticed I can understand some Swedish text already13:26
theunixgeekI feel like learning Swedish for that reason: it's like just the right stepping stone to Danish and Norwegian13:27
theunixgeekI'm averting Norwegian for a while due to the bokmål/nynorsk mix13:27
theunixgeekfor pronunciation, I'm using an online text-to-speech app to hear how to pronounce the words, as well as to practice my listening comprehension (copy/pasting text :P)13:28
LordMetroidSounds cool13:29
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LordMetroidregarding the bug reports what does "triage" mean?13:29
theunixgeekwhoops sorry. pasted in wrong chat :X13:30
=== fta_ is now known as fta
=== asac_ is now known as asac
ArneGoetjeslangasek: what about the langpacks in the New queue?14:50
Keybuksoren: I'm reverse-thinking here14:57
Keybukwe should probably just copy of all of /etc/udev/rules.d into the initramfs14:57
Keybukthough that might break things since we don't copy hardly any of /lib/udev/rules.d14:58
Keybukcopy anything not in /lib/udev/rules.d14:59
Keybukand copy anything in /lib/udev/rules.d *if* it has been copied into the initramfs14:59
Tenkawaanyone know offhand why between config-2.6.28-3-generic and config-2.6.28-4-generic of the kernel IPV6 went from module to being compiled in?15:38
KeybukTenkawa: many things have gone from modules to being compiled in15:39
Tenkawaoh well..15:40
cjwatsonipv6 seems like a slightly dubious choice for that given the historical problems15:40
Tenkawacjwatson: agreed15:40
Tenkawait still has "hiccups"15:40
Mithrandircjwatson: we should have worked around that for just about all users now, though.15:40
cjwatsonI think you should file a bug on /ubuntu/+source/linux with details (if there isn't already one)15:40
cjwatsonMithrandir: I'm assuming that the fact that Tenkawa is showing up here about it means we haven't15:41
Keybukthis sounds like a case of allowing users not to file bugs so we don't find out about the real problems15:41
Tenkawano way to turn it completely off15:41
KeybukBug: please let me disable IPv6 is wrong15:41
KeybukBug: ipv6 is broken for me *because* is right15:41
Tenkawayeah its not a bug15:41
cjwatsonone problem here is that some of the problems aren't ours15:41
Tenkawaits a preference15:42
MithrandirTenkawa: are you actually using ipv6 for anything or do you want to turn it off?  What are the symptoms you are getting?15:42
cjwatsonwe've had historical problems with idiotic routers15:42
Tenkawabut there should still be a choice15:42
TenkawaMithrandir: no.. I just wanted to disable it completely15:42
TenkawaMithrandir: just odd that it got switched to being forced15:42
Mithrandircjwatson: yes, and glibc now doesn't send out AAAA queries unless you have an address with scope >= site defined (and haven't for a while).  (As I think you know)15:43
cjwatson(that said I agree with Keybuk, please file a bug about the breakage you're encountering with ipv6 turned on so that we can fix that properly)15:43
cjwatsonMithrandir: *nod*15:43
Tenkawano more aliases trick... hehehe15:43
KeybukTenkawa: the aliases trick is likely to stop working soon anyway15:43
Keybuk(for any module)15:43
cjwatsonaliases trick?15:43
Tenkawaoh really?15:43
Tenkawathat was fun15:44
cjwatsonoh, alias ipv6 off?15:44
Keybukcjwatson: an ancient method of stopping the kernel being able to load ipv6 when it wants15:44
MithrandirTenkawa: from what I understand, you don't have any problems with it, you just want to disable it because you prefer it not to be loaded?15:45
Tenkawathe modular way seems more flexible15:46
Mithrandir*shrug*; it's effectively disabled unless you configure ipv6 addresses, so the end result should be just about the same.15:46
TenkawaIts nothing to rebuild the kernel for me... was just trying to determine if this was intended15:46
Mithrandirwhich is a fair question, agreed.15:46
TenkawaMithrandir: no.. once the device comes up it does assign a link local address15:46
Tenkawaalthough it "should" do nothing... it still responds to other api calls for ipv6 functionality15:47
MithrandirTenkawa: correct.  Link-local addresses don't cause glibc to do lookups for ipv6 names.15:47
Tenkawapossibly confusing other apps15:47
Mithrandirso unless you do telnet $ipv6_address or some such, it won't actually use ipv6.15:47
Keybukdo you have an example of an app confused by an ip6 link local address?15:47
Tenkawabut apps that use apis checking for ipv6 capabilities "could" be affected15:47
Tenkawaiceweasel I believe is one someone mentioned to me15:48
Tenkawait can be turned off but is a manual process15:48
Mithrandirhmm, people reported to me that the glibc patch fixed that, but this was a couple of years ago, so iceweasel might be doing something different today.15:48
Tenkawalike I said.. no big deal.. just curious15:48
Tenkawaits a hobby/test box anyway... hehehe15:49
Tenkawathanks for the info though... be back later...15:49
KeybukI'm often surprised that my ISP don't do IPv6 yet15:50
KeybukBe seem to be staffed by the kind of techies who'd do it just because15:51
Keybukprobably stuck by the fact the routers don't do it or something15:51
Keybukcjwatson: thought for the day http://lwn.net/Articles/313838/15:51
broonieKeybuk: There are amusing issues with the BT network, I believe.15:58
Keybukbroonie: the BT network doesn't apply in this case15:59
Keybukit's an LLU15:59
cjwatsonKeybuk: ah, so it sounds like Tenkawa didn't really have an issue then16:02
cjwatsonOK, less concerned :-) (I mean not a concrete, demonstrable issue)16:02
slytherinhas anyone else seen a problem on jaunty with permissions for dvd drive node. In my case the permissions (for /dev/hdc) are brw-rw----+. mplayer complains that it can not open dvd device.16:05
Keybukslytherin: err16:06
Keybukcan you do ls -l /dev/hdc16:06
Keybukand getfacl /dev/hdc16:06
Keybuk(and how the hell is it hdc and not sdc? :p)16:06
slytherinKeybuk: ls -l output - brw-rw----+ 1 root disk 22, 0 2009-01-10 18:49 /dev/hdc16:06
KeybukI mean of course sr016:07
slytherinKeybuk: getfact output - getfacl: Removing leading '/' from absolute path names16:07
slytherin# file: dev/hdc16:07
slytherin# owner: root16:07
slytherin# group: disk16:07
cjwatsonKeybuk: yeah, I noticed Uli mentioning that on his LJ too16:07
Keybukcjwatson: which?16:07
cjwatsonKeybuk: the setcap on ping thing16:08
Keybukslytherin: cat /sys/block/hdc/media16:08
cjwatsonKeybuk: do you know if it needs any particular install-time mkfs options?16:08
Keybukcjwatson: I don't think so16:08
cjwatsonwe could do it without any dpkg extensions - it'd just need maintainer script hacking16:08
slytherinKeybuk: there is no such file16:08
Keybukslytherin: ?!16:08
Keybukslytherin: uname -a16:08
slytherinKeybuk: wait, there is /sys/block/hdc/device/media, the output is cdrom.16:09
Keybukoh, sorry16:09
slytherinKeybuk: uname -a - Linux iBook 2.6.27-1-powerpc #1 Fri Nov 7 00:30:26 UTC 2008 ppc GNU/Linux16:09
Keybukslytherin: udevadm test /block/hdc | pastebin16:09
slytherinKeybuk: not able to redirect the output to a file.16:11
Keybukslytherin: ?16:11
Keybukudevadm test /block/hdc > somefile.txt 2>&116:12
* Keybuk spots the problem16:12
KeybukSUBSYSTEM=="block", KERNEL=="hd[0-9]*", SUBSYSTEMS=="ide", ATTRS{media}=="cdrom", GROUP="cdrom"16:13
Keybuk                               ~~~~~~16:13
cjwatsondeliberate mistake, right/16:13
KeybukI suspect it's a case of nobody's used hd* in so long, it was forgotten they weren't numbered ;)16:14
slytherinKeybuk: http://paste.ubuntu.com/103181/16:14
Keybukthat confirms it16:15
Keybukudev_rules_apply_to_event: GROUP 6 /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules:6216:15
Keybukthe later GROUP assignment isn't being used16:16
Keybukslytherin: if you just do chgrp /dev/hdc cdrom16:16
Keybukdoes mplayer work then?16:16
slytherinlet me check16:16
slytherinKeybuk: it doesn't give me any error anymore. And now it is reading the stream information from DVD.16:18
slytherinKeybuk: so should i file a bug for this?16:23
Keybukslytherin: I've already mailed udev upstream16:25
Keybukbut a bug on udev would be welcome16:25
Keybuk(so I don't forget to hassle/chase/etc.)16:25
slytherinOk. I will file a bug.16:26
slytherinNow another completely unrelated problem. I am getting stuttering sound when playing songs or movies. It is very irritating. I am not able to figure out what the problem is. Can it be some buffer overrun?16:28
Keybukslytherin: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/hotplug/udev.git;a=commitdiff;h=18cff5c3b2e3591fa46107288ea2d7026a15ccf316:57
=== jussio1 is now known as jussi01
sbeattiecjwatson|keybuk: actually, apparmor has the (little-known little-used) ability to grant posix capabilities, which would let one remove the setuid bit on ping by writing the apparmor policy and granting within it cap_net_raw.17:16
cjwatsonsbeattie: true; though that'd introduce a reliance on apparmor for functionality as well as for security, which is a significant step17:18
Keybuksbeattie: why is that better than using xattr?17:18
sbeattieKeybuk: does the deb packaging format include xattrs?17:20
keeswhy do we want to drop the setuid bit on ping?17:20
Keybukit includes maintainer scripts17:20
kees(xattr and aa both impose greater limitations than just leaving the setuid bit)17:21
Keybukkees: I'd've thought you'd be in favour of dropping setuid everywhere it's not needed? :p17:21
keesKeybuk: I'm in favor of it when it's used irresponsibly.  ping (and most of the other setuids) just give themselves a CAP and drop privs17:21
Keybukkees: the suggestion is that you just give them the CAP on the filesystem, so they don't even need to do that17:21
keesI mean, I'm in favor of xattrs in general, but it'd mean we could no longer support any filesystems that didn't support xattrs17:22
* Keybuk waits for the downside :p17:22
keesyeah, me too.17:22
keesI'm a fan of it, but I just wanted to play devil's advocate for a second17:23
keesfscaps are in the kernel now (added for hardy, I think)17:23
Keybuknot that we really make any effort to support filesystems other than extN anyway17:24
cjwatsonwe don't? (I get bugs about them and fix them, generally ...)17:24
Keybukall we tend to do for people who report lost data with XFS is not laugh at them in their face17:24
Keybukcjwatson: I suspect we're using different meanings of the term "support" ?17:25
cjwatsonwhich filesystems that are supported for installation (which a user could be forgiven for mistaking for "supported") don't support xattr, anyway?17:25
keeswell, what about the boot-inside-windows thingy?17:25
cjwatsonKeybuk: yeah, you sound like you're saying "I don't want to support anything other than extN", which is slightly different ;-) (though I acknowledge the way XFS and apt are not friends)17:25
keescjwatson: that's probably the right question. :)17:25
jdongisn't the boot-inside-windows thing a fancy loopback image of a standard Linux FS?17:25
cjwatsonyes, it is17:25
cjwatsonext3 loop on ntfs-3g17:25
cjwatsonexcept for /boot which is directly on ntfs-3g17:26
keesI think /boot isn't, though -- which has caused problems (like, for symlinks) in the past.  ?17:26
cjwatsonin the context of this discussion that's irrelevant, though17:26
keesbut we don't need fscaps there :)17:26
keesalso, this would be a delta from debian -- not strictly bad, just pointing it out17:26
cjwatsonI think it'd be pretty reasonable to do it for ping in maintainer scripts, and see what follows - unless there's a filesystem commonly used for / or /usr that doesn't support xattrs17:27
jdongJFS does xattrs right?17:28
Keybukcjwatson: that is what I'm saying :p17:29
KeybukI was thinking of the way that dpkg and XFS weren't friends17:29
jdongoh they only aren't friends if you crash the system at the right time ;-)17:30
cjwatsonthe installer permits any of ext2, ext3, ext4 [jaunty], reiserfs, jfs, xfs as /17:30
Keybukwe still permit reiserfs? :p17:30
Keybukit's kiiinda unmaintained now, no?17:31
* Keybuk hasn't seen anyone step forward for it17:31
jdongis there still that one guy from Novell?17:31
cjwatsonI have no information17:31
cjwatsonand I am not interested in creating more grief for myself by removing it17:31
Keybukthe people who used to be excited about it seemed to have redirected their efforts to btrfs17:31
jdonglast I heard novell is having one guy manage reiserfs for bugfixes primarily for their SLES products still supported17:31
cjwatsonanyway, as far as I can tell, all of the above filesystems have some level of xattr support (i.e. a file matching *xattr* in fs/foo/ ...)17:33
cjwatsonso the discussion, while diverting, is probably not relevant to whether we can rely on xattr :-)17:33
keessweet.  let's do it!  :)17:33
cjwatsonthat said I do not know whether any of those filesystems need mkfs/mount options to enable xattr17:34
cjwatsonI know they have user_xattr mount options, but that's only for the user.* namespace isn't it?17:34
Keybukaccording to mount(8)17:34
cjwatsonmount(8) says different things for different filesystems, so I wanted to check that the option with the same name actually means the same thing for different filesystems17:35
elmoerr, how on earth are you planning to handle upgrades?17:35
Keybukxfs has attr2/noattr217:35
Keybukbut that seems to only refer to the format of xattr on disk17:35
keescjwatson: I tried playing with user_xattr on the bus from google, and I got mixed results.17:35
Keybukelmo: is there some special handling that needs to be done?17:36
keesKeybuk: potentially adding mount options17:36
Keybukoh, right17:36
Keybukbut we were just vaguely concluding there were no relevant mount options17:36
Keybukbesides, we've added mount options during upgrade before :p17:36
cjwatsonelmo: what's the upgrade problem? it looks like all filesystems already permit extended system attributes (which is where this would live) and it would be a matter of disabling the setuid bit and running setxattr or whatever it is in the postinst17:37
elmooh, I assumed it required user_xattr17:37
cjwatsonobviously we would have to check the first assertion there properly17:37
cjwatsonI don't think it does17:37
elmo(which has eaten my disk several times, so it makes me squirm when people talk about relying on it)17:37
cjwatsonsorry, setcap not setxattr17:39
Keybukno user_xattr required17:40
Keybukaccording to http://www.friedhoff.org/posixfilecaps.html17:40
Keybukthere do seem to be other patches required17:40
Keybukcp and mv need patching to copy the attributes17:40
cjwatsonhttp://www.friedhoff.org/posixfilecaps.html does suggest that if we did that then ping would stop working in systems running dapper kernels17:41
cjwatson(yes yes pace Keybuk I know udev won't work)17:42
Keybuklikewise tar, rsync, etc;17:42
Keybukcjwatson: I was more thinking that Upstart wouldn't work <g>17:42
cjwatsonneither upstart nor udev is necessary in a chroot17:42
cjwatsonat least it doesn't matter whether they really work, even if they happen to be installed17:42
keesKeybuk: are those patches not already upstream?  I think a mess of that was done already since selinux support needed it too?17:43
cjwatsonping in a chroot is the sort of thing you might well be a bit surprised about breaking though17:43
cjwatsonand definitely tar17:43
Keybukkees: the doc is old, the patches could very well be applied now that fscaps has gone kernel upstream17:43
Keybukcjwatson raises very interesting questions here17:44
Keybukdo we have to limit ourselves to only using kernel features in our oldest supported LTS?17:44
cjwatsonslangasek and I had this debate a little while ago regarding glibc17:45
elmothis seems like a lot of work given the current model is to give itself caps and drop privs17:45
Keybukbecause we would want to support them running a modern chroot under that LTS17:45
cjwatsonslangasek reckoned we did, and made glibc only require 2.6.15 for that reason17:45
Keybukcjwatson: glibc has requirements?17:45
cjwatsonit is my belief that modern chroots under LTS kernel basically work17:45
cjwatsonKeybuk: yes17:45
Keybukwhat changes if you up the requirement?17:45
cjwatsonit uses new syscalls17:46
cjwatsonand drops fallback support17:46
elmocjwatson: we know they do; our powerpc boxes are still (and have to) run dapper17:46
Keybukbut if the requirement is lower, but you *have* the new kernel, does it use the new syscall or still the old one?17:46
cjwatsonI *think* it uses the new one but you'd have to check17:46
Keybukdo you have a syscall example?17:46
cjwatsonI suspect that may vary between features17:46
Keybuk(I'm guessing it's something like pselect or ppoll)17:46
cjwatsonpselect is one such yes17:47
cjwatsonthere's a header file somewhere with a nice summary17:47
* Keybuk is waiting for bzr17:48
cjwatsonI think that glibc's bzr is debian/-only :-(17:48
Keybukoh, I see17:50
Keybuk__ASSUME_SOCK_CLOEXEC is kinda a cute example17:51
Keybukif defined, it assumes it always exists17:51
Keybukif not defined, it tries with it, then falls back to without17:51
Keybukdoesn't __LINUX_KERNEL_VERSION come from the linux kernel headers themselves?17:52
cjwatsonno in this case it's set by glibc/configure17:52
cjwatsonI'm not certain that all the features follow the same model17:52
Keybuksome seem to change the behaviour of other bits17:53
Keybuklike __ASSUME_PACCEPT only changes nscd17:53
cjwatsondebian/sysdeps/linux.mk:MIN_KERNEL_SUPPORTED := 2.6.1517:53
cjwatsonis the ultimate source of this in our packaging17:53
Keybukpselect() is really the one that interests me17:54
Keybuksince the glibc wrapper for it is an idiotic thing to have anyway17:54
ebroderI'm maintaining an apt repository for some site-specific configurations. Is there something I can hook in update-manager so that repo doesn't get disabled in sources.list when my users take a release upgrade?17:54
KeybukI never understood what they were smoking to lead them to believe that having a glibc-implemented wrapper for that was a good idea17:55
Keybukright, in the pselect() case, the fuck-stupid wrapper is used only if you get -ENOSYS17:55
Keybuklooks like it doesn't turn off anything that should be on ;)17:57
Keybukthe glibc guys are usually pretty awesome about such things anyway, but worth checking17:57
Keybukcjwatson: so how strict do we need this policy to be?18:00
cjwatsoncan we talk about this on Monday? :-)18:00
Keybuksure :p18:00
* Keybuk figured that since you were online and chatting in the channel, you were trying to escape your home life rather than being distracted from it <g>18:01
cjwatsonI'm interested, but too many other things to do ...18:01
cjwatsonnah, I was around because I was trying to get my 3G modem to work :-), but now I have nappies to change and such18:01
cjwatson(and oh dear god this ZeroCD thing is AWFUL)18:02
cjwatsonsome USB 3G modem manufacturers got the bright idea of embedding a flash drive into the device containing drivers18:03
cjwatsonwhich would have been fine if they'd also added a USB hub so that both the mass-storage and the modem show up at once18:03
KeybukI thought these were mostly handled in the kernel now?18:03
cjwatsonbut no - what happens on Windows is that the first time you plug in the device, it installs the driver, and subsequently the driver pokes the device to switch to modem mode18:03
Keybukor has someone written a userspace hack for it, because they didn't realise the kernel has a quirks list about this?18:04
cjwatsonwhat happens on Linux is that either the kernel's already arranged matters for you, or else you go through godawful userspace hacks18:04
cjwatsonand what happened to me today was that I went down blind alleys of godawful userspace hacks, and then discovered that Dan Williams had sent a patch recently for nearly the same model which got merged18:04
cjwatson(kernel patch that is)18:04
cjwatsonso I'm trying that out now. Weirdly, Alan Cox vehemently objected to that patch on lkml18:05
KeybukAlan Cox seems to be objecting to a lot of patches atm18:05
cjwatsonif it works with the obvious quirks addition over and above Dan's patch, I'll throw it lkml-wards. It just took me rather more time than I'm happy with to figure out that *that*'s where the five lines of code needed to go ...18:06
cjwatsonthe manufacturers are pushing some pile of dodgy udev rules18:09
cjwatsonand object to the kernel defaulting to turning off ZeroCD on the grounds that they might want to put something shiny in there18:09
Keybukiirc they eject the storage device, then poke in sysfs to power off and on the usb device again, thus it represents to the kernel18:09
cjwatsonyeah, that kind of thing18:10
Keybukyeah I saw that18:10
Keybukthe counter to that of course is that the Windows default is to turn it off once the driver is installed18:10
KeybukLinux _comes_ with the driver ;-)18:11
cjwatsonand *obviously* you get a 3G modem so that you can use it as a flash drive18:11
Keybukyou could do some insane things with jockey18:11
Keybukfirst time they insert the device, it appears as a storage device so you can look at their PDFs or something18:11
cjwatsonI think mine was read-only anyway and contained only Windows drivers18:11
Keybuka bubble appears telling you to click jockey to turn it into a modem18:11
Keybukthen jockey turns it into a modem, and installs a udev rule to do it next time18:11
cjwatson... or the modem could just work :;-)18:11
Keybukbut that's just insane18:11
cjwatson/usr/sbin/update-grub: line 333: /sbin/vol_id: No such file or directory18:12
cjwatsonhmm, I thought you put a symlink in?18:12
Keybukerr, I thought I did18:12
Keybukthis may be a case of "Scott forgot to bzr add debian/udev.links"18:14
cjwatsonI thought I saw it while NEWing it, but maybe that was only for udev-udeb18:14
Keybukso it worked when I tested it, but bzr bd didn't copy it over18:15
KeybukI think in the udeb, we just copy vol_id into sbin18:15
cjwatsonI believe the installer generally does PATH=/lib/udev:$PATH vol_id, but wouldn't swear to that being the case everywhere18:16
Keybuknope, it's missing in the udeb too18:16
cjwatsonmaybe you didn't build the one I NEWed with bzr bd?18:17
Keybukwas certainly having trouble18:18
Keybukthe -2 I did, so that could have lost the symlinks again18:18
ebroderIs there any way to do site-local hooks in update-manager?18:22
cjwatsonebroder: might want to ask during European working hours when mvo's around18:23
ebrodercjwatson: Ok, I can do that18:23
ScriptRipperI read: https://dev.launchpad.net/OpenSourcing18:33
ScriptRipper"We're open-sourcing the code that runs Launchpad.net. The process will be completed by 21 July 2009, coinciding with the 3.0 release (see the schedule of releases)."18:36
KeybukScriptRipper: ... this isn't twitter18:37
=== devfil_ is now known as devfil
asachmm after todays upgrades Xorg consumes tons of CPU (hardy usable) for me - i am on ati (free)19:11
asacbryce: tjaalton: ^^ ... any idea?19:11
asacbryce: tjaalton: seems like enabling exa caused this. going for Xaa makes things go back to normal (https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/1:
asacbryce: tjaalton: what info do you need? i would love to have this fixed ... but in worst case we have to exclude this card from exa i think. let me knew19:22
asacbryce: tjaalton: its #31588919:33
PovAddictwhat just happened to the language packs? http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/language-pack-es20:59
jpdsPovAddict: I believe the rest is contained in -base.22:03
PovAddictI just saw them show up as upgradeable packages in aptitude22:03
PovAddictfrom 3MB to 33KB22:03
=== warp10_ is now known as warp10
=== asac_ is now known as asac
Hobbseehrm.  Jaunty X appears to have exploded.  Fun!23:21
RainCToh, X likes explosions.. btw, is it normal that X fail to start if I close the laptop's lid while it's booting?23:23
RainCTjcastro: shame on you, how could you fall asleep? :P23:24
HobbseeRainCT: this one's particularly interesting, with things like "failed to allocate frame buffer" and "Failed to allocate EXA offscreen memory" and "[dri] DRIScreenInit failed. Disabling DRI", which i've not seen before23:27
RAOFHobbsee: Hurray for no acceleration!23:29
HobbseeRAOF: indeed!  Well, X just does'nt start at all now23:29
RAOFSounds fun.23:31

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