bluefoxicy[0x40f239] malloc(10)                            = 0x1959fe000:08
bluefoxicy[0x40661c] free(NULL)                            = <void>00:08
bluefoxicy[0x40f239] malloc(2016)                          = 0x195855000:08
bluefoxicyis there any way to turn this into a source code line number?00:08
bluefoxicy(first hex number is the instruction pointer at time of the call)00:08
RAOFbluefoxicy: If you install the dbgsym packages for ls and such the backtrace at any point should include linenumbers, IIRC.00:12
bluefoxicyRAOF:  that didn't  come from gdb00:13
bluefoxicyI'm not sure how to script gdb...00:13
RAOFOh.  That'll be a strace, right?00:22
bluefoxicyltrace but00:23
bluefoxicyI want to extract every call to malloc(), free(), and realloc() from an application, timestamped00:23
PovAddictdid anyone see what I said about translations?00:44
PovAddictthat everything started showing in English since I upgraded the language packs and nobody seems to *care*?00:45
TheMusoPovAddict: Where did you point this issue out, and have you filed a bug or checked if there have been any bugs filed about the issue?00:51
PovAddictI pointed it out here and mentioned the ID of the bug I issued00:51
PovAddicter, filed00:51
TheMusoOk as long as a bug is filed, it will be attended to.00:52
PovAddictso annoying... does *everybody* here just use the desktop in English?01:54
* Hobbsee blinks01:57
HobbseePovAddict: it's less likely that people here still run hardy, fwiw.01:58
PovAddictupgrading means learning a whole new desktop environment01:59
PovAddictKDE3 -> KDE401:59
Hobbseethis is true02:00
Hobbseehm, interesting.02:00
Hobbseeas a workaround, i'd suggest you install version 1:8.04+2008112402:01
PovAddictstrange thing with the -base packages02:02
PovAddicta 20090105 version is listed but not shown as an upgrade02:03
PovAddictwhat's the logic to decide if a package is upgradeable? :/02:04
Hobbseeuse a dist-upgrade on it02:04
Hobbseethat one contains files, it appears02:04
PovAddictaptitude dist-upgrade says there is nothing to do02:05
HobbseePovAddict: oh, and it's in proposed, btw, so may not show on packages.ubuntu.com02:07
Hobbsee(it hasn't been pushed to everyone, fortunately)02:07
PovAddicthmm why did I get it? I have -proposed in my sources.list but it's set in... some way so that it's not used by default02:07
Hobbseeset in... some way so that it's not used by default?02:07
PovAddictthey supposedly don't show unless I do aptitude -t hardy-proposed02:08
* Hobbsee shrugs, being relatively unfamiliar with teh internals of aptitude. I usually lock things at dpkg level, so it works everywhere, if i want to do that02:08
PovAddictit was done by editing /etc/apt/preferences02:09
PovAddictI don't understand how it works though :)02:09
PovAddictPackage: *02:09
PovAddictPin: release a=hardy-proposed02:09
PovAddictPin-Priority: 40002:09
PovAddictanyway, I just downgraded the four packages i had upgraded before02:10
* Hobbsee wonders if aptitude even follows apt's preferences file02:10
PovAddictwell it has worked before :)02:11
PovAddictI also have hardy-backports there, and I'm sure they don't show unless I "-t" ask for it02:11
PovAddictaptitude -t hardy-backports shows two dozen upgradeable packages right now (that don't show otherwise)02:11
PovAddictoops, I meant -proposed in that last message02:12
PovAddictbackports shows even more :)02:12
ghostcubehi i have a question and i didnt get an answer it seems on 64 bit intrepid the /usr/lib/libGl.so link to the libGl.so.180.11 isnt set02:25
ghostcubeits set in the lib3202:26
ghostcubeshould i add it manually02:26
TheMusoghostcube: didn't get an answer where?02:26
ghostcube#ubuntu #kubuntu02:26
TheMusoghostcube: Considered checking whether a bug has been filed about this? If there isn't one, I suggest you file one.02:27
ghostcubei looked and i didnt find anything useful02:27
TheMusoghostcube: Is this problem causing applications to malfunction/not function at all?02:27
ghostcubei cant compile compiz it claims missing libGl02:28
ghostcubeso i think this could cause problems02:28
TheMusoghostcube: You need to install the development files for the nvidia libraries.02:28
TheMusosorry why did I get nvidia mixed up in all of this? :S02:28
ghostcubehmm then it removes the libgl1-mesa-dev and the libgl1-common-dev02:28
TheMusoghostcube: is there any reason why you need to compile compiz?02:29
ghostcubeiam just supporting in channel so i need the newset versionmostly from git02:29
TheMusodon't mind me and what I said rei nvidia.02:29
TheMusoOk, I suggest you run "sudo apt-get build-dep compiz" which will install everything you need.02:29
ghostcubeyeah but this wont fix the prob its just an missing symlink02:29
ghostcubeas it seems02:30
TheMusoghostcube: How do you know it won't fix it? Have you tried it?02:30
ghostcubetry what ? it worked fine i just tried to compile from git02:31
ghostcubeand i get the missing liGl error02:31
ghostcubei need the git version of compiz the master not the apt-get source builds02:32
PovAddictdo you know what build-dep does?02:34
ghostcubeit cathces all dependencies for the build02:34
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ghostcubei dont want to stress i am just wondering if the symlink is  missing02:37
ghostcubethats all :)02:37
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TheMusoghostcube: No, its in a -dev package somewhere. I am not sure which one because I'd  need to check what package the file belongs to.02:40
ghostcubei checked it with apt-file02:40
ghostcubeit belongs to libgl1-mesa-dev02:40
TheMusoIts Debian/Ubuntu policy to keep those symbolic links in the development packages only, as they are not needed for normal use.02:40
ghostcubeand this is installed02:40
ghostcubeand if i want to install the nvidia-glx-180-dev  which contains the same file it will remove the libgl1-mesa-dev02:41
ghostcubeis this the problem maybe ?02:41
TheMusoI don't know enough about those packages to comment.02:42
ghostcubeme too :|02:42
ghostcubeand it seems no one else in channels around iam asking since 4 hours now02:42
ghostcubenoo one has any idea02:43
ghostcubenah 7 hours02:43
ghostcubeboah late02:43
=== bluesmoke is now known as Amaranth
dholbachgood morning07:04
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=== hyperair1 is now known as hyperair
=== hyperair1 is now known as hyperair
soren14:57 < Keybuk> soren: I'm reverse-thinking here08:33
soren14:57 < Keybuk> we should probably just copy of all of /etc/udev/rules.d into the initramfs08:33
soren14:58 < Keybuk> though that might break things since we don't copy hardly any of /lib/udev/rules.d08:34
soren14:59 < Keybuk> or08:34
sorenKeybuk: I don't understand that last line.08:34
soren14:59 < Keybuk> copy anything not in /lib/udev/rules.d08:34
soren14:59 < Keybuk> and copy anything in /lib/udev/rules.d *if* it has been copied into the initramfs08:34
* soren wonders if Keybuk is actually here at this hour08:36
dholbachcan we move imlib2 to universe?09:22
dholbachto me it looks like all rdepends live in Universe09:22
slangasekhave you checked component-mismatches and/or germinate?09:23
dholbachslangasek: erm, no09:23
slangasekimlib2 doesn't show up on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt, which means there's something else in main that (build-)depends on it09:24
slangasekhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.jaunty/all shows that w3m build-depends on it09:25
dholbachah, good to know09:25
dholbachthanks slangasek09:28
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Hobbseeanyone know where pitti is?09:37
directhexHobbsee, germany?09:39
slangasek"elsewhere" this week :)09:39
Hobbseedirecthex: I knew that, but thanks :)09:39
directhexHobbsee, :p09:39
Hobbseeslangasek: ah.  So, who does one get poked about for a broken hardy-proposed langpack update?09:40
seb128Hobbsee: he's on holidays for the week09:40
Hobbseeslangasek: consider yourself poked on https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/316174 then :)09:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 316174 in language-pack-es "All translations gone" [Critical,Confirmed]09:40
slangasekalso ArneGoetje, who's the one that will have to fix it...09:40
Hobbseeseb128: thank you09:40
cjwatsonPovAddict: with regard to language packs, the shrinkage in size is entirely expected; the way language packs are structured is that there's an -LL-base which contains most translations, and an -LL which contains some more translations as updates to that; this lets us push out frequent langpack updates with less mirror churn09:41
slangasekHobbsee: hrm, surely that's because they've been merged into language-pack-es-base, since that was the purpose of the langpack update?09:41
cjwatsonPovAddict: so what happened in -proposed was that the -LL-base packages were respun to save us CD space, which of course resulted in the -LL packages shrinking down to almost nothing09:42
Hobbseeslangasek: ahhh, is that the point.  Right09:42
cjwatsonPovAddict: did you upgrade the -base packages as well?09:42
cjwatsonslangasek: from the bug, looks like an insufficiently-tight dependency, though09:42
* slangasek nods09:43
cjwatson Package: language-pack-es09:44
cjwatson Depends: language-pack-es-base09:44
cjwatson Package: language-pack-es-base09:44
slangasekArneGoetje: ^^ can you fix that so language-pack-$foo has a versioned dep on language-pack-$foo-base?09:44
cjwatson Depends: language-pack-es (>= 1:8.04+20090105), locales (>= 2.3.6)09:44
cjwatson Conflicts: language-pack-es (<< 1:8.04+20090105)09:44
cjwatsonbut there's a long-standing dpkg bug/lack-of-feature to the effect that Conflicts B->A are not checked on upgrade of A09:44
slangasekwell, surely it's not even that09:44
cjwatsonand of course the old language-pack-es-base is still installed09:45
cjwatson-base still seems to be around the expected kind of size09:47
cjwatsonso I don't think we've actually had major translations lossage09:47
Hobbseecjwatson: I think he said he couldn't update -base for some reason, so that would work09:48
cjwatsonHobbsee: he said that it wasn't listed as an available upgrade, and it seemed that aptitude was doing something confusing with pinning09:49
Hobbseethat was it, yes09:49
slangasekcjwatson: actually, the -base packages have each grown by 300k or more09:51
slangaseker, 200k for -en, 400k or more for pt/es09:52
slangasekwhich makes sense in terms of post-release translations09:52
slangasekbut poses interesting problems for LTS point releases09:52
cjwatsonthey have?09:53
cjwatson-rw-r--r-- 1 lp_publish lp_publish 3094350 Jun 17  2008 ubuntu/pool/main/l/language-pack-es-base/language-pack-es-base_8.04+20080527.2_all.deb09:53
cjwatson-rw-r--r-- 1 lp_publish lp_publish 3106094 Jan 10 12:04 ubuntu/pool/main/l/language-pack-es-base/language-pack-es-base_8.04+20090105_all.deb09:53
cjwatson-gnome-es-base has grown about 40K AFAICS09:53
slangasekcjwatson: well, I was comparing against 8.04.009:54
slangasekbecause there are packages from 8.04.1 that aren't in the main archive anymore, making it hard to do a full comparison, grmbl09:56
slangasek(mutter, need to get something set up to record the .deb sizes at image build time)09:56
cjwatsonthat's why there's a hardlink tree archive of .1 on cocoplum09:58
slangasekyeah, but I have the .list files on antimony :)09:59
slangasekI guess copying those to cocoplum would be the easier route, wouldn't it09:59
cjwatsoncalc: ooo3 binaries accepted, enjoy :)10:21
directhexcjwatson, OOo3 landed in main?10:24
loolcjwatson: Just FYI I managed to bootstrap rpm with its autogen last Friday, thanks10:25
lool(had to fix a couple of issues but at least it got the work done)10:25
cjwatsondirecthex: yes10:33
cjwatsonlool: ok, cool10:33
loolblkid just fixed itself automagically I hate that10:39
loolAha /etc/blkid.tab and /etc/blkid.tab.old10:42
loolToo bad I already destroyed evidence...10:42
sorenUmm... Where does compiz store its config these days? I change stuff in gconf, but it doesn't seem to take effect.10:50
sorenmvo: ^ ?10:51
loolsoren: I had the same issue; there's also an "ini" backend10:53
mvosoren: it should be gconf, but sometimes it gets confused and starts using the ini interface. please use ccs and look at the backed settings there10:53
mvosoren: lower left corner10:53
loolsoren: You can access settings in a backend independent way with the python bindings, but I found addressing individual settings extremely painful10:53
mvosoren: I thought I had fixed this particular bug during intrepid development though :/10:53
lool(just borke when I upgraded to jaunty for instance)10:53
sorenI forget... Button2 is the right or middle button?10:54
loolmvo: I used to set my shortcuts with a script like this one http://people.ubuntu.com/~lool/set-shortcut-config but the way I address the compiz settings broke completely; it there a better way to address settings?10:55
sorenI'm having the most annoying issue with compiz or ccsm or something.10:55
sorenI don't have a middle button, and from Xfce I'm used to alt-rightmousebutton resizes windows. I want to make compiz do the same, but I get bitten by a whole stack of weirdness.10:56
sorenAlt-RightMouseButton brings up the window menu. I never need that, so I just disable it under General in ccsm.10:57
* lool finds it weird that blkid maintains his cache of block device's properties when we have udev and sysfs10:57
sorenWhen I disable the window menu, compiz seems to pretend that I'm holding down <Alt>.10:58
mvosoren: uhh, let me try to reproduce10:58
sorenTo click on things, I need to hold down alt. To drag a window, I need to *not* hold down alt.10:58
sorenmvo: Hang on, I'll reset all my compiz settings.10:58
mvolool: does the ccsm "export my settings" help you for your use-case?10:58
sorenI'll nuke ~/.config/compiz (which seems pretty empty anyway)10:59
sorenand to a gconftool-2 --recursive-unset (after grabbing a backup)10:59
mvosoren: there is a "reset" button in ccsm as well11:00
mvo(just fyi, your method will/should work too)11:00
sorenLet's just say that I don't trust ccsm very much at this point :)11:00
mvosoren: you may want to stop compiz before the recursive unset, sometimes the config system tries to be clever :)11:00
sorenmvo: Right, I did it while running metacity.11:01
sorenOk. Here goes.11:01
sorenI go to the "General" place in ccsm and disable the window menu.11:02
sorenIn the "General" tab, third option from the top.11:02
sorenAs soon as I do that, it's like my <Alt> key is inverted.11:02
sorenWhen I try to click on things, it thinks I want to move the window.11:02
sorenWhen I hold Alt down, I can click on things normally.11:03
sorenIf I go to the "Move" plugin.11:03
sorenIt clearly says that the initiate button is Button1. No modifier.11:03
sorenThat rates at least 5.6 on my weird-stuff-o-meter.11:03
sorenAnyhow, I add <Alt> there..11:04
sorenand my <Alt> button's sanity is restored.11:04
sorenI go to the resize plugin..11:04
sorenAnd tell it that I want the initiate button to be <Alt>Button3.11:05
sorenIt then tells me that the window menu action already uses this combo (even though I disabled it).11:05
sorenI click "Disable Window Menu"11:05
sorenAnd my <Alt> button is b0rked again.11:06
sorenI'll try setting the window menu thing to <Shift><Ctrl><Alt><Super>Button9 instead (I'm hoping that won't conflict with anything).11:07
loolmvo: I guess I could use export/import settings; never tried it; will see what that gives, thanks11:07
sorenWhat the...11:07
sorenThat changed all the modifiers for "Resize window" as well?!?11:08
sorenI give up.11:08
mvosoren: let me try that here11:08
sorenI might be doing this all wrong. I just want Alt-RightMouseButton to resize windows.11:09
mvosoren: I can reproduce that here, I have a look (and/or forward to upstream)11:11
loolDoes someone know what upstream bug tracker e2fsprogs uses?  It seems to be Debian's e2fsprogs source, but I'd like to confirm11:13
cjwatsonI don't know for sure, but I know that Ted follows both Debian's and Ubuntu's bug tracker to some degree; probably pays more attention to Debian's11:14
slangasekmy impression is that he tracks e2fsprogs bugs in LP rather closely11:15
slangasekhmm.  the edubuntu pod now includes an edubuntu-desktop-kde seed that references an edubuntu-desktop-kde metapackage.11:16
cjwatsonhttp://ext4.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Bugs but I'm not sure whether that's only for the kernel side11:16
cjwatsonlool: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=102406&group_id=2406&func=browse seems to exist too11:17
mvosoren: as a workaround, please try "preferences" and select the "enable integreation into the desktop environement"11:17
cjwatson(via e2fsprogs.sourceforge.net)11:18
mvosoren: please let me know if that works for you (it seems to do the trick for me)11:21
loolcjwatson: Yeah, I checked bugzilla.kernel.org and came to the main conclusion, and the main e2fsprogs site, and was completely confused11:23
loolOk; I'll just Also affect e2fsprogs and ping tso11:24
loolslangasek: Thanks for the hint11:25
james_wlool: hey, I see your name in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=51067311:29
ubottuDebian bug 510673 in libjack-dev "xine-lib: FTBFS: /bin/sed: can't read /usr/lib/libsamplerate.la: No such file or directory" [Serious,Closed]11:29
james_wlool: there's a sponsorship request open to pull in the removal of the .la from Debian. Do you know why "bio2jack" is the only package that will break from that?11:30
slangasekjames_w: because bio2jack is the only reverse-dep which is also a shared lib shipping a .la?11:41
Laneyiain@intrepid:~/packaging/bio2jack/usr/lib$ grep dependency libbio2jack.la11:44
Laneydependency_libs=' /usr/lib/libjack.la -lrt -lpthread -ldl /usr/lib/libsamplerate.la -lm'11:44
james_wyeah, I came out with a huge list of packages when I tried, but I think I used the tools wrong11:45
james_wI get "libbio2jack0-dev: /usr/lib/libbio2jack.la portaudio19-dev: /usr/lib/libportaudio.la portaudio19-dev: /usr/lib/libportaudiocpp.la libfluidsynth-dev: /usr/lib/libfluidsynth.la libecasound2.2-dev: /usr/lib/libecasound.la"11:52
slangasekjames_w: inspection of libportaudio.la seems to indicate that this lib doesn't depend on libsamplerate11:56
sorenmvo: That's already selected?11:56
sorenmvo: Sorry about the slow reply. compiz sent me to lunch.11:56
tseliotseb128: I have just fixed a rather annoying bug in nautilus with a simple 3-lines patch. Can you have a look at it, please? http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56747911:59
ubottuGnome bug 567479 in Tabs "Clicking on a different tab doesn't update the scrollbar" [Normal,Unconfirmed]11:59
seb128tseliot: that's a duplicate of http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54239612:01
ubottuGnome bug 542396 in Tabs "ScrollBar isn't showed when open a new tab(impossible to scrolling)" [Major,New]12:01
seb128tseliot: could you add your patch to this one?12:01
tseliotseb128: sure12:02
seb128tseliot: I'll try to get upstream to review it12:02
tseliotseb128: ok, done12:03
seb128tseliot: thanks12:03
tseliotthank you12:03
james_wand libiaxclient-dev with /usr/lib/libiaxclient.la12:21
asacRiddell: any news on the knetworkmanager front? will we get a kde4 version?12:24
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Riddellasac: I'm hopeful but I believe it's not there yet12:50
asacRiddell: damn. so how bad would another knetworkmanager breakage in alpha 3 be?12:50
asacRiddell: i have the final 0.7 bits waiting for upload ... knetworkmanager probably will have issues though12:51
Riddellasac: I guess we'll live with it, are they in the PPA to test?12:53
asacRiddell: yes12:53
asacRiddell: let me know how bad it is .... my guess is a crash ;)12:54
looljames_w: yes because its *.la files reference the dropped ones12:54
loolPff xine-lib is maintained in hg12:55
looljames_w: It wasn't my recommendation to drop the *.la files; instead I recommended stripping the dependency_libs= line to be empty12:56
looljames_w: It might affect a different set of packages in Ubuntu than in Debian though; it depends whether our packages shipping *.la files were built against other packages when these used to ship or stopped shipping *.la files12:57
asacfta: pastebinit is broken in jaunty?12:58
james_wlool: ah, ok12:58
asacfta: seems to not honour my .pastebinit.xml anymore12:58
looljames_w: It might affect more than libjack-*-dev's rdeps, but if it does then these packages were lacking a dep on libjack*-dev12:58
loolSo it should be enough to check whether libjack*-dev rdeps ship *.la files and whether these reference libjack*-dev's *.la files; in theory, this should be done on all arches12:59
james_wlool: I have a list for i386, checking that rebuilds of them will be sufficient now.13:01
mvosoren: (sorry for my late reply, I was at lunch :) - please unselect the DE environment integratio13:06
sorenmvo: Ooh... Looks promising!13:19
* soren hugs mvo 13:22
sorenmvo: Awesome! It works.13:22
mvosoren: thanks, I'm created a upstream bugreport and will add a (targeted for beta) ubuntu one too13:22
mvosoren: thanks for brining this up :)13:22
sorenYou bet.13:24
cjwatsonasac: I've just had a two-day saga of getting my 3G modem to work ... none of which was NetworkManager's fault. :-) As soon as I managed to teach the kernel and hal to detect it, NM Just Worked. Nice!13:44
ScottKslangasek: I just updated  Bug #316262 - It should be removed.  I'd appreciate it if you'd have another look.13:45
cjwatsonsomewhat infuriatingly it's twice as fast as my ADSL connection13:45
asaccjwatson: yeah congrats ;). is that a new modem or did you need to adjust an existing hal entry?13:46
cjwatsonasac: newish modem, it's one of the hso family and needs nasty hacking13:46
asacwhat was needed on kernel side?13:46
asaccjwatson: ?13:46
cjwatsonasac: deactivating the stupid ZeroCD thing it comes with13:47
cjwatsonsounds like you're familiar with it already :)13:47
asacI think the plan is to fix the driver13:47
cjwatsonyes, Dan Williams already sent a patch to do most of that13:47
asacthere is one modem class that already has the fix in the driver13:47
asacah ok cool13:47
cjwatsonbut it needed a bit further tweaking13:47
cjwatsonI'll send something upstream shortly13:47
cjwatsonshall I CC you?13:48
asacsure, why not.13:48
siretartasac: may I ping you about the sunbird/iceowl 0.9 uploads? ;)13:48
asacsiretart: yes ;)13:49
asacfeel free13:49
asacsiretart: i think https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/sunbird/ubuntu-0.x and the iceowl one are really ready for action13:50
asaci think its now a matter of upload bandwidth here ;)13:51
siretartah, I see :-)13:52
asacsiretart: ok building sunbird sources and then will just push i guess13:52
asacin case something is broken we probably can still fix it before release ;)13:53
asacsiretart: uploading13:53
siretartcool! thanks!13:53
james_wcan't we have both? :-)13:56
cjwatsonKeybuk: so you were talking about how git reset is missing from bzr ... the other way round, do you know how to do 'bzr revert <file>' in git? 'git reset --hard <file>' is what I'd expect but it refuses14:08
cjwatson(i.e. forget about all changes in index and working tree, but only to certain file(s))14:09
Keybukgit checkout -- <file>14:09
cjwatsonah, of course14:09
Keybukyou may need -f there14:09
cjwatsonfatal: git checkout: updating paths is incompatible with switching branches/forcing14:10
cjwatsonmaybe --14:10
cjwatsonah, just without -f works14:11
cjwatsonobvious UIs 'r' us14:11
Keybukooh, right, -f is when you've already git add'd it14:12
cjwatsonno, I actually need 'git checkout HEAD <file>', and it doesn't DTRT with new files14:12
Keybukit's obvious when you see things from git's pov14:12
cjwatsonI *had* already git add'd it14:12
Keybukgit sucks ;)14:13
cjwatsonno argument from me14:13
Riddellasac: knetworkmanager appears to work with NM 0.7 from the PPA14:17
asacRiddell: thx14:18
Riddellasac: KDE 4 applet still doesn't though alas14:18
cjwatsonKeybuk: is there a neater way, in hal, to say "match on the contents of this sysfs attribute" than writing a preprobe shell script to fish out the attribute and save it with hal-set-property?14:19
cjwatsonKeybuk: the IHV-written code I have here does the latter, but I notice that nothing in hal or hal-info seems to do anything much complicated with preprobe, which leads me to suspect that I might be on an inelegant track14:19
Keybukonly in code14:22
Keybukyou'd have to modify HAL's code to add new sysfs attributes14:23
cjwatsonis that preferred over adding a preprobe script, for something that's insanely device-specific?14:23
KeybukI guess14:23
cjwatsonmaybe I'll just send a patch to hal-info with the preprobe script and see what David says14:24
cjwatsonless effort if it's a bit ambiguous :-)14:24
Keybukhal_util_set_string_from_file (d, "my.little.property", sysfs_path, "wibble")14:24
ArneGoetjeslangasek: about the versioned dependencies on the language-packs: I can try. Since the langpacks are generated by script, the script would need to be ammended to accept the dependent version number as argument...14:48
cjwatsonArneGoetje: this surely is not a problem since language-pack-LL already has versioned Replaces on various other packages with the correct version numbers14:57
cjwatsonand therefore must have this information already14:57
directhexcjwatson, you busy?14:57
cjwatsondirecthex: sort of, why?14:58
cjwatsonmore stack-full than busy if you see what I mean14:58
directhexdebian bug 480020. can you think of any major reason not to insist to novell that they apply the included patch immediately?14:58
ubottuDebian bug 480020 in openssh-server "openssh-server: adjusted OOM killer is inherited by all child processes" [Normal,Closed] http://bugs.debian.org/48002014:58
ArneGoetjecjwatson: but not for the -base packages, right?14:59
directhexi'm having... problems... with servers at work and oom killer14:59
Keybukdirecthex: err14:59
Keybukit's correct that the OOM killer adjustment is inherited from parent to child14:59
Keybuk(most such things are in UNIX)15:00
KeybukI guess for ssh, you don't want bash inheriting it?15:00
directhexKeybuk, quite15:00
cjwatsonArneGoetje: not as far as I can see but surely isn't a big problem since it's done for the delta packages; you can just follow the same approach15:01
cjwatsondirecthex: IIRC there was some later problem as wewll15:01
directhexsodding linux15:01
directhexwhere's my hurd tarball gone15:02
cjwatsondirecthex: and I didn't even know that Novell had taken the *prior* patch I did to support tweaking the OOM killer in sshd at all15:02
cjwatsonKeybuk: in this context I agree with directhex that it's definitely wrong15:02
Keybukcjwatson: yeah, I've had the same problems with ssh with supervision15:02
Keybuk"sshd is still running because someone once ran screen"15:02
cjwatsondirecthex: does Novell set up sshd to run with OOM-killer disabled, then?15:03
cjwatsondirecthex: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=500121 claims to still have the problem, not debugged yet15:03
ubottuDebian bug 500121 in openssh-server "openssh-server: Adjusted OOM killer is inherited by all child processes" [Normal,Open]15:03
directhexcjwatson, no, they don't15:03
cjwatsonmight be user error but as I say I don't know15:03
directhexcjwatson, if a user uses lots of ram, then bye bye server15:03
cjwatsonoh, right, you're running into the *original* problem15:03
cjwatsonpoint them at the upstream bug I guess though I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to patch extra features into openssh15:04
directhexsigh. i just want users who try and use too much ram to have their job killed, and the node ready for the next job. is that so much to ask for? :/15:05
directhexi'll poke sgi. if novell aren't interested, sgi can always stick a modified rpm on their repo15:11
ArneGoetjecjwatson: the current Replaces: line has (<< ${Source-Version}) in a skel template. I don't see how this can be applied to the Depends field, since the deltas get higer version numbers than the base package. The script would need to check, which version of the base packages is currently in the archive.15:12
ArneGoetjecjwatson: or, when rebuilding the base packages, it would set it to ${Source-Version} too.15:14
cjwatsonArneGoetje: oh, right, I see what you mean15:17
Keybukevery LP page for me is popping up that annoying "Some parts are insecure" dialog15:23
Keybukis it doing it for anyone else?15:23
tedgKeybuk: No dialog, but I get a "broken lock" icon.15:26
cjwatsonArneGoetje: seems to me that the most recent base package version could be saved in bzr somewhere15:27
cjwatsonand then substituted in with the LangpackMacros stuff15:29
ArneGoetjecjwatson: I think I need to discuss this with pitti, what the most reasonable approach is.15:29
cjwatsonpitti is on holiday, I think15:31
cjwatsonyes, all week. We can't afford to wait a week to resolve a regression in a stable update15:32
cjwatson(or at least a perceived one)15:32
cjwatsonand waiting a week will cause us to slip 8.04.215:32
ArneGoetjecjwatson: this calls for a quick and dirty hack I think...15:33
cjwatsonyeah, I was just having a look to see what would be easier15:33
cjwatsonArneGoetje: I'm thinking of something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/103950/ (untested)15:40
cjwatsoni.e. ram the dependency in with a spoon :-)15:41
ArneGoetjecjwatson: ouch :)15:42
ArneGoetjecjwatson: that's indeed quick and dirty15:43
cjwatsonobviously with the intention of something better being put in place when pitti gets back15:43
ArneGoetjecjwatson: of course15:43
cjwatsone.g. a maps/ file listing the current base versions for each release15:43
seb128Keybuk: edge does but non-edge doesn't15:43
cjwatsonwhich would then have to be kept up to date15:43
cjwatsonasac: there's a claim in the ozerocdoff source as follows:15:45
cjwatson  This changes the network interface of a Option WWAN-modem from the default15:45
cjwatson  wired network category 802.03 into the new wwan categrory and changes the15:45
cjwatson  serial control and application port from default category serial into15:45
cjwatson  the new wwan, debug or gps category need for Network-Manager version 0.7.015:45
ArneGoetjecjwatson: that's one possibility, yes. Im thinking, as we have this information available in launchpad, if we could maybe pull it from there...15:45
cjwatsonasac: and it then goes and changes net.80203 to net.wwan across the board15:45
cjwatsonasac: however, by some kind of fluke these FDI rules don't fire for me at the moment, and the device works anyway. On further investigation I find no mention of net.wwan anywhere in NM15:46
cjwatsonasac: is ozerocdoff just on crack?15:46
asaccjwatson: i think so15:46
asaccjwatson: NM doesnt look at net.wwan15:46
cjwatsonArneGoetje: that could be possible longer#-term as well, yes15:46
asacit looks at "modem" capability ;) with V.250 command sets15:46
Joe_CoTQuestion: How would I request that Asterisk be moved to main?15:47
asacand for wired its net.80203 ... wifi net.80211?15:47
cjwatsonasac: this sets GSM-07.07 and GSM-07.05 in modem.command_sets and seems to work as a result15:47
cjwatsonJoe_CoT: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess15:47
asaccjwatson: yes. that helps NM to know whether its GSM or CDMA15:48
cjwatsonJoe_CoT: it will need developers willing and able to support it15:48
asacand should be enough15:48
asachopefully with modemmanger NM will do auto detection of command-sets so we dont have to do that each and every modem15:48
Joe_CoTcjwatson, ok, thanks. Is it too late to try to get this done for gutsy?15:48
Joe_CoTSorry, Jaunty15:49
cjwatsonJoe_CoT: not necessarily15:51
cjwatsonJoe_CoT: although don't bet the house on it :-)15:51
cjwatsonJoe_CoT: starting a discussion on ubuntu-devel would be a reasonable way to begin15:51
Joe_CoTcjwatson, yeah, I saw that, but I can't post to ubuntu-devel15:55
cjwatsonsure you can, it just waits for moderation15:55
ArneGoetjecjwatson: I applied your patch and will try to rebuild the langpacks now.15:55
cjwatsonArneGoetje: thanks15:56
Joe_CoTcjwatson, ok, I'll give that a go later. thanks15:56
Keybukseb128: yeah, lp people are looking into it now16:02
wasabirandom sort of offtopic and odd question that i'm curious about:   anybody have an ubuntu armel chroot running on a G1?16:02
Keybukit's the javascript library apparently16:02
asacgeser: libjdic-java still uses xul 1.8? any reason?16:06
geserasac: I don't know16:12
apwif you are modifying a packaged based on an upstream package, one which has a debian/patches/ modifier, should that also be used for handling complete new files16:16
persiaapw, Depends on the file, but often, yes.16:17
apwthis is a new file for a hooks collection16:18
persiaExceptions would be when the file ought live in debian/ and get installed at install time (not used at build-time).16:18
Keybukslangasek: so, I hear you escaped your civic duty?16:19
apwpersia, this could be seen as that an additional file overlayed on the result16:19
persiaapw, Is this file used at build-time or install-time?16:20
persia(also, #ubuntu-motu is frequently a more on-topic place for packaging questions)16:21
apwits not needed for the build, an additional file only16:21
persiaPersonally, I'd put that in debian/${file} rather than as a patch in debian/patches, and install it with dh_install.16:22
apwyeah, and actually now you've said that i can see one here just the same, thanks for the pointers16:22
cjwatsonjames_w,NCommander: I've had bug 289741 open in my browser for a while, and was thinking of just applying it regardless of powerpc testing. Would that be OK with you guys?16:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 289741 in ichthux-meta "[intrepid] ichthux-meta does not build on pia, sparc and powerpc" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28974116:34
cjwatson(actually I'd apply the update.cfg bit and regenerate)16:34
james_wcjwatson: I have no opinion on the matter16:34
persiatxwikinger is the regular maintainer of ichthux-meta, if that impacts any decision16:36
cjwatsondoesn't hurt16:36
cjwatsonI'll tweak his change slightly to match other *-meta packages16:36
ebroderDoes anyone know if there's some way to hook the update-manager for some site-specifc upgrade stuff?16:37
Keybukcjwatson: when you were playing with your modem, did you encounter modem-modeswitch?16:38
cjwatsonYM usb_modeswitch?16:38
mvoebroder: not easily currently, but if you let us know what your use-case is we can provide hooks16:38
Keybukcjwatson: no16:38
cjwatsonOK, I didn't see modem-modeswitch16:39
mvoebroder: you can already exchange the whole thing in a config option (if you want to provide your own)16:39
cjwatsonI found three other roughly equivalent hacky piles of rubbish16:39
ebrodermvo: We have a site apt repository that's getting disabled during dist upgrades. It'd be nice if the updater could do s/hardy/intrepid/ or whatever instead of commenting out the repos16:39
ebrodermvo: Or if there was a hook where we could do that16:39
cjwatsonsome of which claimed to need random sleeps inserted in order to work; none of which I could get to actually work for me before I got bored16:39
mvoebroder: ok, how about a config entry in /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades - something like "DisableThirdPartyRepos=True" that you could then change on your clients?16:44
persiamvo, How about a regex, so allow selective disablement?16:45
ebrodermvo: And if that was set to False, then the third-party repo would have the same substitution applied as the primary repos? That would be awesome, actually16:45
mvoebroder: yes16:45
mvopersia: KISS (but yeah, could be a regexp too)16:46
mvoebroder: ok, I can do that for jaunty I think16:46
ebroderThat'd be amazing. Thanks16:46
persiamvo, good point.  Just thinking of use cases.16:46
mvoebroder: could you please file a bug about it and paste me the bugnumber here? so that I can target it for jaunty?16:47
ebroderWill do16:47
Keybukcjwatson: see the package I just dropped into NEW16:48
cjwatsonKeybuk: do I really want to use this rather than the out-of-the-box thing I have now? :-)16:48
cjwatson(BTW "modem-modeswitch" is an irrelevant googlewhack, so I don't think I could have encountered it)16:48
Keybukcjwatson: well, it would be nice if you can test it ;)16:50
Keybuksince this is going to be the out-of-the-box thing eventually16:50
cjwatsonisn't it better to do it in the kernel?16:51
KeybukI think so, but others disagree16:52
cjwatsonLinus and the usb-storage maintainers apparently agree16:52
Keybukif you haven't the time, dont' worry ;)16:52
ebrodermvo: it looks like there's already LP #147080. I'll update the description to match your idea16:52
ubottuLaunchpad bug 147080 in update-manager-core "do-release-upgrade should make disabling third party repositories optional" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/14708016:52
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NCommandercjwatson, no issue on my end, my PPC is quite dead ATM, so I haven't had an opportunity to test it.16:55
highvoltage"UDS: done," is probably not required in the topic anymore?17:14
apwcjwatson, is pm-utils one of yours ?  :)17:17
fargiolashi, recently I've been playing a bit on a friend's computer with another linux distribution. We were quite impressed by the difference in font rendering and hinting between ubuntu and the other one. I looked around and saw that ubuntu enables some patent encumbered code in libfreetype for subpixel rendering. Are freetype patches enought to get the same ubuntu fonts look? do I need other patches? libcairo? xft?17:21
fargiolase.g. I see libcairo has got a 04-lcd-filter-or-something patch, is that related to font hinting?17:22
cjwatsonapw: nope17:23
cjwatsonapw: you can check the changelog to see who tends to upload things; /usr/share/doc/pm-utils/changelog.Debian.gz17:24
apwlooks like it pitti but i believe he is away17:27
apwi'll have to get all the bits together here, tested etc, then find someone to hastle about looking them over.  thanks17:27
mvoebroder: I milestoned it - I also accidently declined it for jaunty but when I try to approve it again LP oopses. so best to just ignore the "declined for jaunty" line for now17:29
james_wapw: the author is often around, and I believe he follows lp bugs for the package, so you could contact him17:29
ebrodermvo: Haha. Ok, thanks a lot17:30
apwis that Michael ?17:31
persiaapw, Generally, debian/copyright should help you identify upstream for any package (/usr/share/doc/${package}/copyright for installed packages)17:33
apwthe change here is likely ubuntu specific, so not sure whether upstream is our target17:33
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== The_Company is now known as Company
=== Kmos_ is now known as Kmos
cody-somervilleHai, The new version of gnome-keyring breaks the shit out of Xubuntu and Mythbuntu. kthxbi.18:02
seb128slangasek: new evolution and evolution-data-server versions have been uploaded as intrepid sru today, would be nice if you could have a look and accept those and copy pocket the source to jaunty too since pitti is not there this week and they fix several annoying issues (evolution crashing when editing and account for example)18:02
seb128cody-somerville: there is already a bug open about that18:02
cody-somervilleseb128, I know... but in the effort to improve communication, I decided to share that here.18:03
seb128not sure with who you want to communicate that but why not18:04
* cody-somerville hugs seb128.18:04
apwis there a fools guide on how to make bzr branches in launchpad for something hosted in launchpad/bzr thing18:07
cjwatsonbzr get lp:~OWNER/PROJECT/BRANCH [this just mirrors the remote branch locally for later speed]; bzr get BRANCH NAME-OF-YOUR-MODIFICATIONS; cd NAME-OF-YOUR-MODIFICATIONS; hack hack hack; bzr commit; bzr push lp:~YOURLPNAME/PROJECT/NAME-OF-YOUR-MODIFICATIONS18:11
cjwatsonthere's very likely something more coherent on help.launchpad.net18:11
apwcjwatson, thanks ... thats helpful i am sure i can muddle though from there.  having git knowledge is a problem18:13
cjwatsonif you keep forgetting to 'bzr push', handy tip is to run 'bzr bind <remote branch URL>' at which point your commits will be committed automatically to the remote branch as well18:14
apwis there any way to 'remember' the binding without it doing it all the time18:15
apwso that bzr push works, but i don't need the lp: crapola on the end?18:15
james_w"bzr push" will default to that location from now on18:15
apwbzr: ERROR: Target directory lp:~apw/apport/suspend-resume already exists, but does not have a valid .bzr directory. Supply --use-existing-dir to push there anyway.18:15
james_w"bzr push --remember wherever" to override the default later if desired18:15
apwand do i expect that the first time?18:15
james_wno, that's not expected18:16
apwbah, everything always breaks when i do it18:16
james_wdid you have an interrupted push before?18:16
apwi went into launchpad and made the branch in the web interface18:16
apwand then tried to push into it, and it said that first time18:16
james_win that case it is expected18:17
james_wadd --use-existing-dir as suggested18:17
cjwatsonapw: alternatively, 'bzr bind' will be remembered18:19
cjwatsonthough you'll still need to push the first time18:19
cjwatsonapw: for the record, you don't need to create the branch in the web interface18:20
cjwatsonyou can just push to lp:~apw/foo/bar at will18:20
apwoh ok, the web kinda implies you do with all its register buttons18:20
cjwatsonassuming that the project 'foo' exists (launchpad.net/foo)18:20
* apw pushes18:20
calcslangasek: is there enough time left for me to respin OOo again before the alpha freeze?18:26
calcslangasek: its a simple fix but will take building just ooo itself no langpacks to do it18:26
KeybukVcs-Bzr: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mythtv/mythtv/mythtv-fixes18:29
KeybukWhat is the point of having a package in bzr if only a private team can commit to it ?!?!?!?!18:29
LaserJockKeybuk: so you can make merge requests?18:31
* apw slaps bzr ... let me do a bzr diff in the middle of a commit dammit18:31
KeybukLaserJock: I can upload the package into the archive ;)18:32
LaserJockKeybuk: well sure, but I think many people use Vcs-Bzr for people who can't upload18:32
Keybukthen ubuntu-dev should be a member of that team18:33
Keybukor they should have two branches18:33
LaserJockperhaps, but then ubuntu-dev gets spammed18:33
Keybukone ~ubuntu-dev representing what's in the archive18:33
superm1Keybuk, we went through this before, then ubuntu-dev gets a lot of requests that spammed18:33
Keybukand another private one that anyone can commit to18:33
ograKeybuk, udev doesnt have rules for mtd devices ?18:34
Keybukogra: should it?18:34
superm1Keybuk, at least in that case -  a merge request is much more preferable than someone outside ~ubuntu-mythtv doing the upload.  we like to be very careful what patches get applied etc18:35
Keybuksuperm1: we don't have maintainership in Ubuntu18:35
ograwell, i dont have any /dev/mtdblah but the kernel has builtin support for them and there should be one in the HW on my arm system18:35
ograthough, no trace in dmesg18:36
Keybukogra: that implies the kernel hasn't created one18:36
Keybukyou only need udev rules if you don't like the default kernel name18:36
ograi thought udev creates the devicenode in any case18:36
superm1Keybuk, yes,  but still people who regularly work on packages tend to prefer to be poked anyhow to know what's happening with (possibly) invasive patches though, no?18:37
Keybuksuperm1: yes18:37
ograbut takes what the kernel offers if it has no rule ? ah18:37
Keybukbut that's entirely different to "you can't commit/upload if you're not in our gang"18:37
superm1Keybuk, i think it would be fine to poke someone on the team saying how's this look, they say good, you upload it and post a merge url for them to pull it into bzr18:38
superm1but i gather that's still not the model you're striving for18:39
ograisnt that what we have the "propose branch for merging" feature in LP for ?18:39
Keybukogra: no18:40
Keybukpropose branch for merging is for the exact opposite18:40
Keybukin the model we're aiming for, it's so people who can't commit can propose their branch for merging by someone who can18:40
Keybuksuperm1: ok, let's use my change as an example then18:41
Keybuksuperm1: I've proposed it for review18:41
Keybuknow take a look at it and decide whether it's good or not18:41
Keybukyou're almost certainly going to have absolutely no idea, because the person who knows that it's a good change is *me*18:41
superm1Keybuk, haha "it's already uploaded, so your call"18:43
superm1so my question would be what are the implications of this on earlier releases?  We regularly backport using the same packaging.18:44
superm1and given there is a "Breaks: udev (<< 136-1)", that would mean these backports will break with that change18:44
superm1so already right there I would have not been happy with it, and preferred the change be done in a way that maintains backportability rather than immediately uploaded18:46
superm1since this same branch is used for the weekly automated fixes builds18:46
Keybukyou can't ship a rule that works with the udev in intrepid and the udev in jaunty18:46
Keybukthe udev versions aren't compatible18:46
superm1well you can ship two rules then, and query what environment you're running on during the build process18:47
Keybukyou're welcome to try that ;)18:47
superm1er well two rules in the source package, and put the right one in the binary package - that's what i meant18:48
Keybukyou'd have to put the right preinst too, etc.18:49
Keybukthat's up to you to figure out ;)18:49
Keybukmy concern is making sure that it works in jaunty18:49
Keybukwhich it does now18:49
Keybukif you're backporting to earlier releases, that's your problem ;)18:49
superm1right it's functional for jaunty, but exactly why it's better for the team to have control over their main bzr branch, so there is shielding from problems like this coming up that the person who uploaded may have not forseen18:50
KeybukI disagree entirely18:51
Keybukhaving packages gated by the team is the very thing in Debian we designed the Ubuntu archive to *avoid*18:51
Keybuksuperm1: btw18:52
KeybukI'd like to talk to you about that rule anyway18:52
Keybuksince it gives root access to mythtv18:53
KeybukI suspect kees would like to talk to you about it too ;)18:53
superm1Keybuk, yeah once the new firewire stack is put in place, it can go away thankfully18:53
Keybukit's invalid *now*18:53
* kees reads backlog18:53
superm1Keybuk, if new pieces are in place already, then just a matter of someone verifying functionality hasn't change without the rule there18:54
Keybukno, I mean arguably right now, installing mythtv is a massive security risk18:55
Keybukin intrepid, assumedly, as well18:55
keesf'ing firewire.18:55
superm1i can see the argument there.  it's either functionality or security in this case until the new stack is complete.18:56
Keybuksuperm1: yes19:03
Keybukbut users aren't warned about it ;)19:03
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slangasekKeybuk: my civic duty is fulfilled for the moment, yes19:12
Keybukslangasek: if they call you up, but then don't actually select you, can they call you up again later?19:12
slangasekKeybuk: in this case, yes; if you actually serve on a jury then you're ineligible to serve again for the next 12 months, but otherwise you can be called up again any time at random19:13
slangasekcalc: yeah, we could squeeze in an OOo respin if there's need19:14
calcslangasek: i found out that its broken on KDE with the openoffice.org-kde package installed and I know how to fix it19:18
calcslangasek: I'll get a new upload done right after meeting with Rick19:18
calcslangasek: should be done ~ 2hr from now19:18
calcer considering it takes 1hr to upload from my house :-\19:18
fta<asac> fta: seems to not honour my .pastebinit.xml anymore <= works for me (tm). which version are you using? mine?19:19
ftaasac, oh, 0.11 is in universe, maybe a bug i fixed for stgraber that is missing.19:20
ftastgraber, ^^19:21
slangasekcalc: right, sounds good19:23
ftaasac, stgraber: i remember now, i fixed that after 0.11 was closed, but before it entered debian, so my fixes are not in. we need 0.12 or 0.11.119:25
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LaserJockif I want to drop several binary packages from a source package should I upload a new source that doesn't build them first and then file a bug for removal or the other way around?19:46
Keybukthe former19:47
Keybukno need to file a bug for removal either19:47
Keybukthe archive admins will notice19:47
slangaseksiretart: hmm, was your upload of emacs-snapshot 1:20081013-1 a fake-sync?  AFAICS, the package was removed from Debian at version 1:20070302-1 and never restored19:48
apwslangasek, i have a couple of changes targeted against packages which pitti seems to own and he is away, we were hoping to get those changes into jaunty alpha-3 and i am wondering what the right way forward is as he is away19:49
slangasekapw: I'm not aware of any packages that pitti owns exclusively - what are you looking at?19:51
slangasek(i.e., what packages)19:51
apwapport and pm-utils19:53
calccjwatson: ping19:53
calcanyone happen to know why launchpad-integration (at least the command line version) broke recently?19:53
calcif you run launchpad-integration -b -P openoffice.org for example it comes up with page not found error19:54
james_wcalc: launchpad bug19:54
james_wcalc: reload after a few seconds, they are working on the fix19:54
calcrickspencer3: ^ apparently its a timing issue with launchpad itself19:57
rickspencer3I just reloaded the page, and there it is19:59
calcit takes ~ 5-10s to work19:59
slangasekapw: ah; apport at least should be in bzr, I don't know whether pm-utils is currently20:03
apwyep, i made a branch off apport and pushed up the changes there, pm-utils didn't claim to be so i did a traditional debdiff for that one20:04
slangasekapw: right - at that point you can use the standard sponsorship process to get them in (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess), and I'm happy to have you escalate to me directly once the bugs are in place that I can reference20:06
apwslangasek, ok thanks ... process is always the hardest piece to get right without wasting loads of peoples time; those at the top of the tree whos time is valuable20:08
calcslangasek: uploading now20:19
KeybukTheMuso: err, so I was looking at speechd-up briefly20:23
KeybukI think your udev rule is wrong ;)20:23
kirklandemgent: hey there ... your ubuntu top uploaders page isn't active any more?20:26
Keybukbug #31651120:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 316511 in speechd-up "udev rule is almost certainly wrong" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31651120:28
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emgentkirkland: i'm thinking to put it in ubuntustat20:29
emgentanyway yeah is up20:30
emgentbut i should fix some issue first to re-put up it20:30
kirklandemgent: URL?20:34
kirklandemgent: the old url's from your blog are broken20:34
cjwatsoncalc: yep?20:36
emgentkirkland: http://thc.emgent.org/utu/20:37
calccjwatson: oh i was going to ask you about the launchpad-integration issue but james_w told me it was due to launchpad bug20:41
kirklandemgent: thanks20:41
emgentkirkland: np, cron working now to update20:44
slangasekLaserJock: ping20:56
LaserJockslangasek: uh oh, what'd I do now?20:56
slangasekLaserJock: the edubuntu seeds seem to be in a funny state; the edubuntu-desktop-kde seed, for instance, references "edubuntu-desktop-kde"?20:56
slangasekI was going to try to update edubuntu-meta for alpha-3, but it failed miserably20:56
cjwatsoncalc: *nod* ok20:57
LaserJockslangasek: what did you need to update? I'm working on an upload now20:57
cjwatsonslangasek: what's wrong with that?20:57
slangasekLaserJock: I was just going to refresh the package for seed changes20:57
cjwatsonit's normal for metapackage seeds to contain the metapackage20:57
slangasekcjwatson: to have a metapackage include itself?20:57
slangasekoh, is it?20:57
cjwatsonlook at ubuntu.jaunty/desktop20:57
cjwatsongerminate-update-metapackage knows to exclude it20:57
LaserJockwell, I had an issue with it20:58
slangasekthen I just didn't follow through far enough :)20:58
LaserJockfor edubuntu-desktop it's fine20:58
cjwatsonI suspect you're running into stuff that's intentionally in universe20:58
LaserJockbut when I ran germinate on edubuntu-desktop-kde it wanted to include it20:58
LaserJockI was checking that before I uploaded to make sure I didn't screw something up20:59
LaserJockI've really reworked the seeds so it's possible I missed something20:59
cjwatsonwhat's the actual error message?21:00
LaserJockit wasn't an error21:00
LaserJockit just added edubuntu-desktop-kde to the lists21:01
LaserJockat least I didn't think there was a message, I can run it again to check21:01
LaserJockcjwatson: how does it know to exclude them?21:02
cjwatsonsee metapackage_name in germinate-update-metapackage21:04
apwslangasek, i pasted the patches and pointers into the bug (bug #316419) and subscribed the bug to ubuntu-main-sponsors.  will see whoall responds.  thanks for you help21:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 316419 in pm-utils "Changes to support suspend/hibernate/resume testing" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31641921:05
slangasekapw: great, thanks!21:05
cjwatsonLaserJock: why did you rename the seeds?21:06
cjwatsonthat was sort of unhelpful :P21:06
LaserJockcjwatson: I know I know21:06
LaserJockI'm just trying to make it clear to contributors21:06
cjwatsonwell, that's what broke it :)21:07
LaserJockas I'm adding in 4 new seeds and trying to get edubuntu-desktop-kde going21:07
cjwatsonif you want to keep it that way, you can override the metapackage name handling by putting "Task-Metapackage: edubuntu-desktop-kde" in edubuntu.jaunty/edubuntu-desktop-kde21:07
cjwatsonand similar21:07
ScriptRipperwho can help me here with some .deb packaging for a multitarget pkg (debian and ubuntu)?21:08
LaserJockoh, I think I see21:08
cjwatsonScriptRipper: #ubuntu-motu is for mentoring21:09
LaserJockcjwatson: so it looks for <distro>-<seed> for the metapackage name21:09
LaserJockI was wondering why changing it to the exact name of the metapackage would cause problems21:09
LaserJockbut it's taking it as edubuntu-edubuntu-desktop-kde21:10
cjwatsonbecause now it wants edubuntu-edubuntu-desktop-kde :-)21:10
cjwatsonI'm always happy to offer advice in advance of complex seed changes ;-)21:10
LaserJockwell, the reason I did that was because we can't have a "desktop" seed21:10
cjwatsonyeah, that's why I had desktop-addon with Task-Metapackage: edubuntu-desktop21:10
LaserJockbut for various reasons "addon" doesn't have much context anymore21:11
LaserJockok, so i think perhaps "Task-Metapackage: edubuntu-desktop-kde" might be the way to go21:12
LaserJockas I really would like to keep things clear if I can21:12
cjwatsonyeah, probably best21:12
LaserJockslangasek: ok, edubuntu-meta uploaded and sorry for the mess21:22
slangasekn/p :)21:23
Keybukmy god21:44
Keybukwhat is yada?!21:44
Keybukthis thing should be *illegal*21:45
seb128slangasek: there? did you read what I said before about evolution?21:45
slangasekseb128: hi, yes - will get it a bit later this afternoon21:46
slangasekKeybuk: haha21:46
seb128slangasek: ok thanks, I was just making sure you were around this week to know if I should do a jaunty upload or wait for it to be accepted and pocket copied21:47
slangasekseb128: yep - I'm here all week :)21:47
LaserJockKeybuk: autogenerated debian/rules doesn't sound fun?21:47
Keybukauto-generated debian/anything is just wrong21:47
LaserJockslangasek: I've just uploaded edubuntu-addon-meta as well, which drops 4 binaries (edubuntu-addon-* metapackages). Once those binaries are removed from the archive kpercentage will drop from NBS21:48
LaserJockKeybuk: you don't like seeing changelog.in and control.in files laying around?21:48
cjwatsonKeybuk: yeah, most of Debian figured that out in about 2000 but there are still a few weirdos :)21:49
LaserJockslangasek: just sort of a FYI21:49
slangasekKeybuk: c'mon, you know you've always wanted to build your debian packages from a spec file21:49
cjwatsonLaserJock: yada is the one that has debian/packages21:49
lifelessslangasek: its like autoconf.in.in21:49
cjwatsonand generates everything from that21:49
LaserJockcjwatson: *everything*?21:49
slangasekLaserJock: spec file21:49
cjwatsonpretty much21:50
* pochu apt-get sources it21:50
slangasekwhy use a filesystem to structure your data when you can use an arbitrary text file format?21:50
Keybukslangasek: if you want to build your packages from a spec file, just build your packages from a spec file!21:50
cjwatsoncertainly including control rules changelog21:50
Keybuknothing says you have to use dpkg-buildpackage21:50
slangasekKeybuk: the archive admins says21:50
Keybukit's perfectly valid to build a deb using just dpkg-source -b after laying it out21:50
Keybukslangasek: debian/rules:21:50
Keybuk  rpm...21:50
LaserJockcjwatson: oh dear Lord, that's awful21:50
Keybuk  rpm...21:50
* slangasek grins21:50
slangasekwow, somehow I thought it was more common knowledge just how evil yada was21:51
Keybukyada feels like package rape21:51
cjwatsonKeybuk: that's certainly valid, though I'd be petitioning $WORLD for a new maintainer if anyone tried it :)21:51
LaserJockslangasek: I've heard people grumble about it but never actually looked up what it did21:51
Keybukupdate-maintainer doesn't work with yada ;)21:51
* Keybuk considers a bug21:51
slangaseka bug to remove yada21:52
Keybukhow many things use it?21:52
Keybukand of those, do we CARE about any of them? :p21:52
slangasekonly the things that dexter maintains21:53
slangasekand none of those in main, the ones he maintained that were in main got repackaged sanely by StevenK21:53
Mithrandirlibnss-db, but I think that's repackaged now.21:53
slangasekyes, StevenK repackaged that one21:53
Keybukthere really is a random smattering of things, isn't there21:54
calcfsck someone broke librdf0-dev21:57
calcwhich caused my simple couple line fix to FTBFS since librdf0-dev is no longer installable :(21:58
* calc goes to beat on librdf0-dev21:58
Keybukdoes anything create the plugdev group anymore?22:07
slangasekis it still in user-setup?22:08
Keybuk./debian/user-setup-udeb.templates:Default: adm cdrom dialout lpadmin plugdev sambashare22:08
Keybuk  * Add back plugdev.  It's needed to make mounting easier for shell users.22:09
Keybukevan_: ?22:09
evan_I believe that was at the request of pitti, though I don't recall his exact reasoning22:10
=== evan_ is now known as evand
Keybukunless I'm mistaken, there's nothing on the system owned by plugdev now22:13
evandI have no objections to that change being reverted.22:13
Keybuk'plugdev' has to stay for static mountpoints created by the installer.22:14
Keybukis the only other comment I can find22:14
Keybukcan't see anything in IRC logs?22:15
Keybukthere's only 5 hours between the upload removing it and the upload putting it back22:15
Keybukremove it again ;)22:16
Keybuksee who complains22:16
Keybukit was probably true at the time that udev still used it for things22:16
calcapparently someone completely broke libmysqlclient*-dev installation22:17
calclooks like missing conflicts maybe, but not certain22:17
* calc is making a clean chroot to see what happens22:17
calclibmysqlclient-dev tries to overwrite files in libmysqlclient15-dev at minimum22:18
cjwatsonkeep plugdev22:30
Joe_CoTcjwatson, still waiting on that moderator to approve my Asterisk in Main post :(22:31
cjwatsonpartman-basicfilesystems sets up FAT and NTFS filesystems in /etc/fstab with gid=46 which is plugdev22:31
cjwatsonJoe_CoT: typical moderation delay may exceed a day. I'm not going to try to do it now since it's 10:30pm local22:31
cjwatsonKeybuk: ^-22:32
directhexcjwatson, where are you, geographically?22:34
TheMusodirecthex: The UK.22:34
directhexTheMuso, well, yes, i knew THAT bit, not many countries are on UTC+022:35
asacfta: thanks for clarifying ;)22:35
Laneydirecthex: can we expect you to come bug jamming?22:36
directhexLaney, hm?22:36
cjwatsondirecthex: Cambridge22:38
directhexeek, tabland22:38
calcasac: ping22:38
asaccalc: ?22:38
calcasac: mysql-dfsg-5.1 was uploaded a few days ago and appears to have taken over the libmysqlclient-dev package from mysql-dfsg-5.0 can that be promoted to main?22:39
directhexcjwatson, if these OOM_DISABLE sshd patches actually work, i suspect it won't just be our dept looking to apply beer liberally. i've got tomorrow to investigate it22:39
calcasac: it appears someone forgot what doing that would cause... :-\22:41
calcasac: not only that but libmysqlclient15-dev is now a dummy package (in main no less) that depends on libmysqlcient-dev which is in universe22:46
mathiazcalc: right - there are some issues with mysql 5.1 uploaded to universe. For now the plan is to keep 5.0 in main and leave 5.1 in universe.22:50
Keybukcjwatson: why don't you just use "users" ?22:50
Keybukotherwise we have a very bizarrely named group22:50
Keybuk"plugdev" = "access NTFS/FAT filesystems set up by the installer"22:50
asaczul: whats the idea about mysql -dev packages?22:50
asaczul: see a few lines above22:50
calcmathiaz: er do you plan on fixing 5.0 RSN? It is blocking OpenOffice.org builds22:50
mathiazcalc: a new version of mysql 5.1 should be uploaded to universe to fix the issue.22:50
calcmathiaz: it looks like a new 5.0 release has to be made too since the libmysqlclient15-dev package is now a dummy package?22:51
ftaasac, you can use pastebinit from my ppa, i bumped it, it has all the fixes.22:51
cjwatsonKeybuk: because nothing actually adds individual users to 'users'22:51
asacfta: yeah. will give it a try ;)22:51
cjwatsonif you want to talk about bizarrely named groups ...22:51
Keybukcjwatson: nothing should add users to plugdev anymore though22:51
cjwatsonI can't help it that the rug got pulled out from under me :P22:51
cjwatsonusers isn't appropriate, I'd be happy with something that is22:51
asacmathiaz: can you take care that the -dev pacakge mess gets resolved ;)?22:51
Keybukmy concern is that people keep filing bugs referring to plugdev22:52
Keybukbecause we still create it22:52
Keybukeven if the group was renamed, I'd be happy22:52
Keybukit would stop a torrent of wrong bugs22:52
cjwatsonyes, I have no intention of changing base-passwd because before I can do that I need to implement debconf support22:52
mathiazasac: yop22:52
asacmathiaz: cool ... so i can go to sleep soon :)22:52
cjwatsonotherwise everyone who has ever installed Ubuntu will get a non-debconf prompt when upgrading22:52
Keybukcjwatson: I thought we had debconf support now?22:52
* Keybuk is sure we had this discussion last time ;)22:52
cjwatsonit's been on my to-do list since 200422:52
cjwatsonit's actually quite complicated22:53
cjwatsonanyway, I only really care about something the first user can access22:53
cjwatsonsince I'm not sure plugdev was any better than that22:53
cjwatsons'pose that might work22:53
cjwatsonremoving the old group from people's systems is still going to be very hard22:54
KeybukI don't really care overly about removing the old group22:54
Keybukbut people justify bugs with "this is a new install and the group was still created"22:54
cjwatsonis there a way to say "this filesystem should be mountable by users at the console"?22:54
Keybuknot with /sbin/mount itself22:55
cjwatsonalso, I have grave reservations about Ubuntu's list of global static users and groups ever diverging from Debian's22:55
cjwatsonthere is only one namespace there and it ain't big22:55
cjwatsona removal itself might not be a problem, but I don't want it to set a precedent22:55
Keybuksince many of our core system pieces are quite different from Debian's, we're surely always going to differ on such things as groups?22:57
cjwatsonwe never have in terms of the global static users and groups until now22:58
cjwatsonplugdev was added to Debian in response to Ubuntu's need, essentially22:58
cjwatsonand then used in various places in Debian I think22:58
cjwatsonglobal static users/groups are very, very rarely needed. so I don't think that assertion holds at all22:58
Keybukwell, no22:58
Keybukwe're trying to phase out all of the groups that a user might need to be a member of22:58
cjwatsonthere have been been fewer than 50 ever22:59
cjwatson(of each)22:59
Keybukand use other means to do that authentication22:59
cjwatsonright, but I'm not going to go removing global static groups as the wind changes, sorry. We still have operator for goodness' sake :)22:59
cjwatsonIME, (a) there is value in continuity, (b) knee-jerk removals result in the need for knee-jerk readditions later23:00
cjwatsonI would be happy if we can get to the point where we no longer need to add the first user to plugdev23:00
cjwatsonand can document it as obsolete in Ubuntu23:01
Keybukwe've removed things like scanner already ;)23:01
Keybukwell, since the installer is the thing creating plugdev23:01
Keybukand the thing putting the first user into plugdev23:01
cjwatsonscanner was not a global static group23:01
Keybukand apparently the only thing still using plugdev ...23:01
cjwatsonno, the installer is not the thing creating plugdev23:01
cjwatsonbase-passwd is the thing creating plugdev23:01
Keybukthat's kinda blocking your own argument on yourself23:01
cjwatsongive me a better solution. admin strikes me as a poor solution, design-wise, since it's root-equivalent by definition23:03
KeybukI can't do that without knowing *why* you set that gid= in /etc/fstab23:04
cjwatsonread the changelogs and the bug references therein?23:04
cjwatsonsurely when removing a feature it is appropriate to research it!23:04
cjwatsonpartman-basicfilesystems is the package in question23:04
cjwatson  * Mount FAT and NTFS with umask=007,gid=46 (static group plugdev), so that23:04
cjwatson    users can easily be given privileges to read/write mounted Windows23:05
cjwatson    filesystems, and so that the first user can do so automatically (closes:23:05
cjwatson    Malone #8048, #25071).23:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 8048 in partman-basicfilesystems "Existing mounted vfat partition is not writeable for non-root users" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/804823:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 25071 in partman-basicfilesystems "More reasonable defaults for ntfs mounts during installation" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2507123:05
Keybukthat sounds like a wrong change though23:05
cjwatsonthose bugs have fairly extensive discussion23:05
Keybukcertainly abusing plugdev23:05
cjwatsonthose bugs have fairly extensive discussion23:05
Keybukplugdev was intended as a group to allow the console user to access removable devices23:05
cjwatsonyou can't possibly have had time to read it in the gap between my posting that and you saying that23:05
Keybukmy machine is behaving very strangely and I can't open any windows or tab away from this one23:05
cjwatsonMartin Pitt, the inventor of plugdev IIRC, suggested it as an option23:05
* Keybuk wouldn't have done that23:06
Keybukit merges privileges23:06
Keybukif everything that wanted "the user that installed the system" to have access to things, we may as well just have a group for that23:07
Keybuknot "oh, we happen to have this random other group we use for something else, we could just use that group"23:07
KeybukI'm clearly not going to persuade you23:08
cjwatsonyou're not going to persuade me that you get to give me grief about something that was extensively discussed among our best security-oriented developers at the time, and appeared to be the least bad solution available, no23:08
cjwatsonI am entirely happy to drop in a better solution; I just don't feel that I have seen one yet23:08
cjwatsonand in the meantime I do not feel that we should deliberately break things23:09
KeybukI would rename the group to "windows" or something23:09
Keybukbecause that way, it will stop people repeatedly filing bugs because they read about plugdev somewhere23:09
cjwatsonwe can't rename it without addressing the debconf problem23:09
cjwatsonand frankly that will just lead to a different set of bugs23:09
cjwatson(renaming it to "windows")23:10
Keybukyes, it will lead to a set of bugs where users actually describe the problem they're having23:10
cjwatsonI'm sorry that you get hard bugs. Join the club :-P23:10
Keybukthey're usually fun23:10
Keybuk"blah is not in the plugdev group."  "Correct -> invalid"23:11
cjwatsonseems like an appropriate response :)23:11
Keybukactually, I have a fun one where a guy keeps un-wont-fixing his bug that his iPod isn't in group floppy ;)23:11
cjwatsonI could adjust the base-passwd documentation in Ubuntu so that you have something "authoritative" to point to23:11
cjwatsonand to deconfuse anyone who looks there23:11
Keybukthe udev docs are quite clear23:11
Keybukpeople would just file bugs on base-passwd to say the docs are wrong ;)23:12
cjwatsonthe udev docs are hardly the authoritative source for the semantics of global static groups23:12
cjwatsonI am entirely happy to reject base-passwd bugs without needing to propose breaking udev ;-)23:12
Keybukthey're the authorative source for the groups given to things in /dev23:12
Keybukand quite clear that no user should ever be put into one of those groups23:13
KeybukI'm going to reboot this thing23:13
Keybukit did the same thing yesterday, then the problem mysteriously went away overnight23:13
Keybukand now it's doing it again23:13
Keybuksilly thing23:13
Keybukcjwatson: on further thought, it would probably be nice to have a document about the system static groups explaining what they're for, and what uses them23:17
cjwatsonKeybuk: /usr/share/doc/base-passwd/users-and-groups.* is such a document (accuracy due to changing winds notwithstanding; happy to update it)23:22
cjwatsonKeybuk: btw, sorry for being snappy above - have screaming baby here and it's all a bit fraught :(23:27
cjwatsonI do strongly believe in stepwise improvement as you know, but needn't have been sarky about it23:28
=== freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying

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