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MootBotMeeting started at 08:59. The chair is mdz.14:59
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]14:59
mdzThis is a meeting of the Ubuntu Technical Board14:59
persiaOh, I thought that was at 14:00 UTC.14:59
persiaThe Asia/Oceania RMB meeting is now cancelled for this week.  Come back next week (9:00 UTC).15:00
mdzit's been at 1500 UTC since at least October15:00
mdzpersia: the fridge calendar is hopeless; please consider the team calendar in Google authoritative15:01
mdzkirkland: ping15:02
Keybukmdz: though that calendar is not available to the community15:02
mdzKeybuk: I realize.  do you have a solution?15:02
mdzthe fridge doesn't even let me log in, I have no way to update it15:03
mdzthis meeting has been stable for years, but never seems to be at the right time on the fridge calendar, and I don't understand why15:03
KeybukI mailed fridge-devel about it15:04
Keybukthe mail bounced :-/15:04
mdzsabdfl is inbound15:04
KeybukI actually did have an idea15:04
dholbachWiki Calendar FTW:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar?action=recall&rev=99 ! :-)15:05
Keybukif we had a google calendar for the ubuntu community, people could add events to it by inviting the known e-mail address to the event15:05
Keybukpeople known to schedule events could be given permission to add directly15:05
mdz[TOPIC] calendaring15:05
MootBotNew Topic:  calendaring15:05
persiaThere is one.  The bot can't process it due to some bugs with the way that Google implements iCal vs. the python-ical modules.15:05
persiaboredandblogging, Do you have the URL of the Google calendar for the fridge handy?15:05
Keybukwhy do you need a bot?15:05
persiaKeybuk, Just adjusts the topic of this channel, shows upcoming meetings, etc.15:06
persiaI suppose it's not needed, but it's how most people find out the schedule for stuff now.15:06
Keybukon the calendar side, I'd just set it so it adds invited meetings by default15:06
Keybukand generally trust people to behave15:06
Keybukif people don't behave, someone can remove the meeting trivially and add the person to the "cannot see" list15:06
cody-somervilleKeybuk, we already have a calendar like that15:07
cody-somervilleoops, I see persia already mentioned that15:07
sabdflahoy all15:07
Keybukcody-somerville: it doesn't seem to be very well advertised? :)15:07
mdzsabdfl: first topic, by virtue of there being a meeting conflict, is communicating our meeting time appropriately15:07
mdzthe fridge is ostensibly authoritative, but it has proven very tricky to get it updated15:08
Keybukwe use calendars for a number of things15:10
mdzpersia: is there anyone else who can tell us about it?15:10
mdzpersia: (the google one)15:10
Keybukmost primarily for us, "booking" this channel15:10
persiaRight, so unless anyone has a better solution, let's decide we want to use the Google calendar, update the fridge to point to Google, dispense with the bot until it can be fixed, and put the URL to the google calendar in the /topic.15:10
persiamdz, boredandblogging is the person who told me about it, but anyone on the News Team ought to have the information.15:11
* cody-somerville has access.15:11
persiacody-somerville, What's the URL?15:11
persiacody-somerville, Can you implement something sane with it?15:11
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=j5q85mmi6ujvjtii5s1n3li5io%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/Halifax15:12
sabdflpersia: +115:12
cody-somervillepersia, I think there is already a page on the fridge with the calendar embedded.15:12
cody-somervilleI shall find it15:12
Keybukwe should ensure that the process for adding events to that calendar is well documented15:13
Keybukwhat is the process now?15:13
persiaKeybuk, mail the News team.15:13
mdzwho owns this infrastructure?15:13
mdzthe CC or one of its delegates?15:13
persianewz2000 seems to do most of the infrastructure updates.15:13
persiaNews Team provides most of the direction.15:14
persia(fridge-devel was merged into News Team, as I understand things)15:14
sabdflwe've never taken a view on that - either Canonical provides infrastructure, or various folks / teams do what they need ad hoc15:14
sabdflthere are elements here of Canonical (newz2000) and ad hoc (the fridge->irc bot)15:14
cody-somervillehttp://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1590 is the page on the fridge that embeds the google calendar15:14
MootBotLINK received:  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1590 is the page on the fridge that embeds the google calendar15:15
sabdfli've no problem saying that the TB could own ubuntu project infrastructure15:15
sabdflif that would help15:15
persiaOr perhaps that TB could direct it?  That saves direct responsibility, but also provides an avenue for resolution of confusion.15:15
Keybukcody-somerville: ACCESS DENIED!15:15
mdzI don't think the tech board needs or wants to own this, we just want to make sure that people know  when the tech board meeting is15:15
mdzI would be happy to have responsibility for updating it as chair15:16
mdzbut I need to know what to do and have the access to do it15:16
cody-somervillemdz, Isn't the meeting always at the same time?15:17
mdzcody-somerville: yes, which is why I'm so puzzled that it's often wrong on the fridge15:17
Keybukto me, it seems appropriate that if it's a google calendar, people who chair teams have access to write to it15:17
mdzit changes twice a year for DST15:17
cody-somervillemdz, Because the fridge's calendar infrastructure is poor15:17
mdzcody-somerville: how do other teams update the calendar?15:17
sabdflwhy does it change for DST?15:17
cody-somervillemdz, They send an e-mail and pray to $DIETY15:18
persiaI just send email to the news team monthly, for the meetings I chair.15:18
sabdflsurely it's easier to fix it in Zulu time?15:18
sabdflfolks know their own DST changes better than we do15:18
Keybuksabdfl: because many other meetings change with DST, and the tech-board overlaps with them15:18
mdzsabdfl: not when your calendar, my calendar and Keybuk's calendar are all in local time and change with DST15:18
cody-somervilleIf we move to the Google Calendar, folks can just e-mail the actual calendar15:18
Keybukcody-somerville: what is the actual calendar's e-mail address?15:18
cody-somervilleie. they would invite the calendar to their event they created in their google calendar15:18
cody-somervilleKeybuk, one sec15:18
Keybuk(this should all be in a wiki page)15:19
Keybuka very clear and obvious wiki page15:19
kirklandmdz: pong15:19
sabdflis it a calendar for this channel, effectively?15:19
sabdflor a tech board calendar, which happens to invite this channel to some events?15:19
persiasabdfl, Other events (e.g. bug days) also go there, but it's 90% for this channel.15:19
mdzhttp://fridge.ubuntu.com/about says to email ubuntu-news-team@lists.ubuntu.com to update it15:19
MootBotLINK received:  http://fridge.ubuntu.com/about says to email ubuntu-news-team@lists.ubuntu.com to update it15:19
cody-somervillemdz, Keybuk: Right. The google calendar is a plan of the news team. The bot currently needed some programming work to work correctly.15:20
Keybukmdz: it does?15:20
Keybukit says to e-mail the News Team to update the fridge itself15:20
mdzKeybuk: yes, at the end of the last calendar15:20
Keybukit doesn't mention the calendar at all?15:21
mdzit seems cleary that what we need to do is reach out to the news team to understand how to solve this15:21
mdznot much more to talk about here15:21
mdzI'll take the action15:21
cody-somervillemdz, I'm a member of the news team15:21
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
mdzcody-somerville: oh dear15:21
ograthe news team was mailed several times about the TB schedule btw15:21
mdzcody-somerville: and you can't tell us how to update the calendar either?15:21
cody-somervilleI can15:21
cody-somervilleI just explained it :)15:21
sabdfl(03:10:49 PM) persia: Right, so unless anyone has a better solution, let's decide we want to use the Google calendar, update the fridge to point to Google, dispense with the bot until it can be fixed, and put the URL to the google calendar in the /topic.15:21
mdzcody-somerville: send an email and pray?15:21
cody-somervillesabdfl, persia++15:22
sabdfli think we can ask the News team to change practice15:22
Keybukcody-somerville: you said "one sec" and never told us ;)15:22
sabdflmake that an official "Ubuntu meetings and events" calendar15:22
sabdflagree who gets to write to it, so it doesn't become too noisy15:22
sabdfland encourage folks to subscribe through it (RSS feeds, IRC bot, News page etc)15:22
mdzhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-news-team/2008-August/000164.html shows ogra saying it's at 1400 UTC.  that may have been correct at the time (BST)15:23
ograback then it was15:23
mdzwe've spent too long talking about this; we have a lot to cover15:23
ograbut afaik it never ended up on the calendar anyway15:23
mdzI'll take an action to sort this out15:23
mdz[ACTION] mdz to sort calendar issues with the news team15:23
MootBotACTION received:  mdz to sort calendar issues with the news team15:23
mdz[TOPIC] Agenda15:23
MootBotNew Topic:  Agenda15:23
mdz[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda15:24
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda15:24
mdzthat's the proper agenda for this meeting15:24
mdz[TOPIC] ubuntu-core-dev application from Dustin Kirkland (kirkland)15:24
MootBotNew Topic:  ubuntu-core-dev application from Dustin Kirkland (kirkland)15:24
kirklandmdz: Hi, I'm here now15:25
mdz[LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-November/001849.html15:25
MootBotLINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2008-November/001849.html15:25
mdzis kirkland's application15:25
mdzzul,cjwatson,jdstrand,kees,pitti and slangasek are named references15:26
mdz[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DustinKirkland15:26
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DustinKirkland15:26
sabdfl+1 from me on the basis of references, and my observation of kirkland in action at UDS15:26
Keybukkirkland: One of your efforts over the last cycle has been to add a "status" command to init scripts15:27
KeybukThis has involved communication with a lot of different teams and people who care about particular packages15:27
Keybukhow do you think that went?15:27
mdz(sorry, I'm just reading the email trail now, I didn't have a chance to prep)15:27
KeybukEspecially, were there any problems or arguments you encountered?  And how did you resolve them?15:28
persiaamachu, We're cancelled for this week.  Read your mail.15:28
kirklandKeybuk: fair to partly cloudy, I'd say.  The best thing I did to help that effort, I think, was to add a status_of_proc() function to the lsb functions list15:28
kirklandKeybuk: I was able to work that function upstream into Debian15:28
kirklandKeybuk: it helped that we carried it in Ubuntu's lsb package for a little while15:29
amachupersia: Ok. got stuck in traffic :-) did any candidate turned out?15:29
kirklandKeybuk: and proved out a number of init/status scripts15:29
Keybukwas it a problem of getting others to adopt your changes?15:29
kirklandKeybuk: we covered the most important server package's init scripts15:29
Keybuk(people silently not sponsoring or changing)15:30
Keybukor was it a problem of people vocally arguing to the change?15:30
kirklandKeybuk: sponsoring was a little tough at first, because I was very new to the community and it was remarkably difficult to get people to trust you when you're new around here :-)15:30
kirklandKeybuk: that got much easier15:30
kirklandKeybuk: and is not so much a problem now15:31
kirklandKeybuk: once I made MOTU, I was able to ease that burden by sponsoring other's changes to the universe package's init scripts15:31
Keybukother than the obvious, how differently do you think the changes would have gone had you been a member of core-dev?15:31
kirklandKeybuk: there was some disagreement15:31
Keybukwhat kind of disagreement was there?  How did you resolve the disagreements?15:31
kirklandKeybuk: well, some init scripts didn't need status actions, as I believe you brought up with respect to udev15:32
kirklandKeybuk: so it was hard to make a cut-and-dry rule15:32
kirklandKeybuk: also, it seems that because this involved "lsb", there was almost immediately controversy15:33
kirklandKeybuk: lsb seems to raise blood pressures around here, even though this item had nothing to do with certification of apps or the distro15:33
kirklandKeybuk: that was a simple lack of understanding15:33
Keybukwere you able to resolve those ?15:33
kirklandKeybuk: I think one of the first things I would do differently, were I to start this effort again, would be to right a lintian check15:34
mdzkirkland: Debian seems to be supporting LSB style init script ordering now.  In your opinion, what should our response be to that in Ubuntu, if any?15:34
kirklandKeybuk: the lintian check would put the issue in front of the package uploaders on each build, and getting that into Debian would enlist the help of a much larger community15:35
sabdfl1what did i miss?15:36
kirklandmdz: well, as I understand it, upstart is our future for init15:36
=== sabdfl1 is now known as sabdfl
kirklandmdz: that might put us even more out of step with Debian, down the road15:36
mdzsabdfl: I will paste15:36
sabdflkirkland: is there any sense of direction from debian on this?15:37
Keybukkirkland: while true, Upstart will have to support old-style init scripts anyway15:37
kirklandsabdfl: this = upstart?15:37
Keybukand supporting them makes migration a lot less relaxed, since we don't need a flag day15:37
sabdflkirkland: clear direction from debian with regard to init strategy15:38
sabdfllast i saw it was a "general framework to allow any package to use any system"15:38
kirklandsabdfl: sorry, I haven't followed Debian's init strategy closely15:38
sabdflKeybuk: less relaxed?15:38
Keybuksabdfl: err, more relexed ;)15:38
Keybukkirkland: it's also worth noting that LSB headers being wrong in Ubuntu breaks users systems when they use tools that (usually as a side-effect) reorder the init direcories15:39
kirklandKeybuk: ah, yes, I have been bitten by that, while working with superm on some mythtv issues15:39
mdzwe have 20 minutes remaining and several more agenda items, 2 minute warning15:40
mdz(for this topic)15:40
kirklandHonestly, my interest in init scripts was simply in having a way to check the status of each service running on an ubuntu server15:40
KeybukI'm done ;)15:40
sabdfl+1 from me, still ;-)15:40
Keybuk+1 from me on clear recommendation and strong technical skills15:40
mdz[VOTE] ubuntu-core-dev application from Dustin Kirkland15:41
MootBotPlease vote on:  ubuntu-core-dev application from Dustin Kirkland.15:41
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot15:41
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting15:41
MootBot+1 received from mdz. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 115:41
mdzsabdfl,Keybuk: care to vote now that one has actually been called?15:41
MootBot+1 received from sabdfl. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 215:41
MootBot+1 received from Keybuk. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 315:42
mdzkirkland: congratulations, thanks, and welcome15:42
kirklandthanks guys, cheers ;-)15:42
sabdfli think the full expression is "bah, humbug"15:42
Keybukbah? :)15:42
MootBotFinal result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 315:42
mdz[TOPIC] Limited main upload rights for Stephane Graber15:42
MootBotNew Topic:  Limited main upload rights for Stephane Graber15:42
sabdflstephane graber15:42
KeybukThe mootbot attacks.  The mootbot hits for -1 command-fu.15:43
sabdflis there a url with background on this? the packages exactly?15:43
mdzDate: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:42:45 +020015:43
mdzFrom: Oliver Grawert <ogra@ubuntu.com>15:43
mdzTo: technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com15:43
mdzCc: Stephane Graber <stgraber@ubuntu.com>15:43
mdzSubject: extended upload rights for stephane graber15:43
sabdfli also saw a mail thread asking for mdke to have limited upload rights of docs packages15:43
mdzltsp, ldm and ltspfs15:43
* ogra looks up15:43
mdzstephane is a MOTU15:44
ograthere will be more packages though as we started splitting out i.e. ldm-themes15:44
ograright on your request he gained motu status to get access to these packages in main15:44
sabdflare these currently being produced by stephane and sponsored by ogra?15:44
ograsadly he seems not to be around15:44
mdz(since December)15:44
ograsabdfl, right15:44
sabdflany problems so far?15:44
ograor by other main uploaders who dont have concerns about his packagig either ... i.e. LaserJock15:45
sabdflare any of these iso-production-critical for the desktop edition livecd?15:45
mdzogra: is someone planning to create a seed for these so that we can regulate access based on that?15:45
ogramdz, a seed ?15:45
mdzogra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveReorganisation15:46
ogramdz, the source is maintained in a cross distro way on https://code.launchpad.net/~ltsp-upstream/ltsp/ltsp-trunk15:46
ograthe tarballs used for the packages are tagged dumps from that tree directly15:46
mdzat this point, one-off ACLs like this should only be a temporary solution15:46
cjwatsonseeds have nothing to do with upstream maintenance ...15:46
ograoh, you mean an ACL team for the packaging :)15:47
ograsure, thats doable15:47
mdzand there should be a plan to move to a seed15:47
sabdfl+1 from me, on the basis of lots of collaboration, limited impact of a mistake and long effective maintenance of the packages15:47
mdz(or whatever they're being called...last I checked it was seeds)15:47
mdzcjwatson: is that still accurate?  I see discussion of other names on the wiki page15:47
cjwatsonmdz: I am attempting to review the UDS discussion at the moment15:47
mdzogra: no, I don't15:47
cjwatson(slightly stymied by audio problems on my laptop)15:47
mdzogra: I mean the list of packages which that team can upload15:48
cjwatsonuntil I've done that I'd rather not give an inaccurate answer, but I am going to have it done by the call on Thursday15:48
ogramdz, ah, k (i need to read up on that topic more, i'm not up to date on this yet and jum meetings atm)15:48
mdzI'm happy to ack this request but only if someone is on the hook to transition it to post-ArchiveReorg world order15:48
mdzogra: is that you?15:49
ograwell, i'll do that15:49
cjwatsonI will keep it on my list of things that need attention once we have a clearly defined new world order15:49
sabdflcall for a vote?15:49
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Jan 17:00: Kernel Team | 13 Jan 21:00: LoCo Council | 14 Jan 16:00: Foundation Team | 14 Jan 17:00: QA Team | 15 Jan 00:30: Forum Council
mdz[VOTE] Upload ACL for stgraber including ltsp, ldm and ltspfs15:50
MootBotPlease vote on:  Upload ACL for stgraber including ltsp, ldm and ltspfs.15:50
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot15:50
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting15:50
MootBot+1 received from mdz. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 115:50
MootBot+1 received from sabdfl. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 215:50
mdzKeybuk: ?15:50
MootBot+1 received from Keybuk. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 315:50
MootBotFinal result is 3 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 315:51
mdz[ACTION] mdz to get ACL updated for stgraber15:51
MootBotACTION received:  mdz to get ACL updated for stgraber15:51
mdz[TOPIC] cdrtools15:51
MootBotNew Topic:  cdrtools15:51
mdzthis will be quick15:51
mdzI haven't heard anything on this since early December15:51
mdzit's in Joerg's hands as I understand it15:51
mdzwe've identified the legal language which needs to be added, and asked Joerg to make the change as recommended by SFLC15:52
mdzI'll send out a ping to see where it stands15:52
mdz[ACTION] mdz to ping regarding cdrtools15:52
MootBotACTION received:  mdz to ping regarding cdrtools15:52
Keybukwithout having read what you've asked to add,15:52
mdz[TOPIC] ArchiveReorganisation and governance impact thereof15:52
MootBotNew Topic:  ArchiveReorganisation and governance impact thereof15:52
KeybukI'm still concerned that any grant for cdrtools will permit any GPL application to link to any non-GPL library15:52
mdzwe have a conference call at 1400 UTC on Thursday with the MOTU Council to discuss t his15:53
mdzKeybuk: I can forward you the thread offline if you like; it's not a very good read15:53
mdzgiven that we're constrained on time, I guess we'll defer further discussion on this to the call15:53
mdzsabdfl,Keybuk: please make sure you're adequately prepared for that discussion in advance though15:54
mdz[TOPIC] Patent policy15:54
MootBotNew Topic:  Patent policy15:54
mdzWe have an outstanding inquiry regarding how to respond to patent concerns in a package15:54
mdzthis highlighted for me the need for a general policy on this to help developers decide what to do15:54
mdzbut as far as I'm aware there is no one working on it at the moment15:54
mdzI do not have time to do it15:54
sabdflmdz: are you reording the agenda specifically?15:55
sabdflthis could be a long conversation15:55
sabdfli'd rather get to some of the other bits this week15:55
mdzsabdfl: no, just getting to some quick topics first15:55
mdzthis is just a call for help, nothing to discuss in this meeting15:56
sabdflthis is not one of them15:56
mdzbut it is blocking a request someone made of the tech board months ago15:56
mdzand the unresponsiveness/ineffectiveness of the tech board at the moment was a concern discussed at UDS15:56
mdzso I felt it only fair to highlight it15:56
sabdflin general, i don't think we fold in the face of suggestions of patent infringement15:56
sabdfljust because there may be a patent in some jurisdiction is no reason for us not to ship code15:56
sabdflwe need to look at the details, case by case15:56
sabdflthere will be cases where we DON'T ship code, because we think that would generally put users in a bad situation15:57
mdzsabdfl: so you disagree that we should have a documented policy?15:57
sabdfland others where we do, because there is insufficient clarity15:57
sabdflno, but i don't think it can be simplistic15:57
mdzsomeone needs to own the problem of getting consensus on this and documenting it15:57
mdzor at a minimum, to respond to the inquiry that's been raised15:58
mdzneither of these can be me, I'm afraid15:58
mdzwe are out of time and I know you want to get to the nominations, so let's move on15:58
mdz[TOPIC] Technical Board nominations15:59
MootBotNew Topic:  Technical Board nominations15:59
cjwatsonI did respond to the enquiry that reached me, but I felt unable to give an authoritative answer on the legal liability Canonical's prepared to accept as a distributor15:59
mdzsabdfl: all yours15:59
cjwatson(and instead made what helpful comments I could)15:59
mdzcjwatson: I appreciate that, thanks15:59
sabdflcjwatson and keescook have agreed to stand in a run-off election for a single new place on the TB15:59
mdzwow, only 7 days to vote15:59
sabdflvoting is now open, and runs for a week15:59
sabdfli haven't discussed any "platform position" or "meet the candidates" ideas16:00
sabdflas we're in somewhat new territory :-)16:00
sabdflboth have said that the other guy would be brilliant too ;-)16:00
sabdflwhere should we announce the ballot?16:00
sabdflit's of course open to MOTU and core-dev16:00
mdzubuntu-devel-announce and right quick16:00
sabdflshould we move on?16:01
mdzthis is the last topic on the agenda16:01
mdz[TOPIC] AOB16:01
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB16:01
cjwatsonI do have one piece of AOB if we can make it fit16:01
cjwatsonhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/OemTrackingId involves namespace assignment for a file filled in by redistributors of Ubuntu16:02
cjwatsonin my review of the spec, I objected to having a free-for-all namespace with no arbitration body or record16:02
mdz[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/OemTrackingId16:02
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/OemTrackingId16:02
cjwatsonand suggested that there should be a fairly simple registry with the TB arbitrating disputes if necessary16:02
cjwatsonfeel free to tell me to defer to later if you don't think this is something that can be dealt with immediately16:03
mdzI'm happy for the TB to be the custodian of that list in the absence of an obvious fit with an existing team or a need for a new one16:03
mdzsabdfl,Keybuk: any objections?16:03
Keybukreading the specification, it looks like most of this is already implemented anyway?16:03
Keybukmdz: no, I agree we should own that namespaced16:03
cjwatsonKeybuk: ish, some renaming needs to happen16:04
sabdflthere are some issues in that spec - the shipt / dowload delta16:04
cjwatsonthere is an existing implementation providing some similar things, but it doesn't meet all the requirements16:04
mdzyes, but cjwatson isn't asking about those (and from his comments I think he has the situation in hand)16:04
cjwatsonyeah, we had a follow-up call after my comments; telegraphic notes at the bottom which I will fold into the spec16:04
sabdfl+1 on the registry16:04
mdzcjwatson: does that address your issue?16:05
cjwatsonI do need to talk to somebody about the shipit issue but I think that somebody is probably Jane/Henrik rather than the TB16:05
cjwatsonmdz: yes, that's fine, thank you; I will nominate a page and mail a note to the TB16:05
mdzok, let's wrap then, thanks all16:05
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:05.16:05
sabdflthanks all16:06
mathiazall right folks - let's get the Ubuntu Server Team meeting going.16:07
MootBotMeeting started at 10:07. The chair is mathiaz.16:07
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:07
mathiazToday's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting16:07
mathiazLast week minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/2009010616:08
mathiaz[TOPIC] Screen Profiles16:08
MootBotNew Topic:  Screen Profiles16:08
mathiazkirkland: ^^?16:08
kirklandmathiaz: yessir!16:08
kirklandmathiaz: it's totally awesome now16:08
adityaghere in for member, i am sorry because i am late, i just came to know about it16:08
kirklandmathiaz: uploaded to universe for jaunty16:09
kirklandmathiaz: in my ppa for hardy/intrepid16:09
kirklandmathiaz: nijaba has done some excellent work on the configurator16:09
* nijaba blushes16:09
kirklandmathiaz: it's very fast to start up now (i'm caching the updates-available information)16:09
mathiazkirkland: so what's up with the taskbar ?16:09
kirklandmathiaz: i plan to blog about it today16:09
kirklandmathiaz: clarify the question?16:10
adityagany one there  ?? in here for the first time16:10
mathiazkirkland: awesome.16:10
mathiazkirkland: last time we talked about implemented a taskbar in screen16:10
mathiazkirkland: is this something still being worked on? implemented?16:11
kirklandmathiaz: it currently looks like this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/Screenshot.png16:11
kirklandmathiaz: the 3-color "\o/" is our approximation of the spirit of the Ubuntu logo (also, it's 1/3 of the circle of friends)16:11
kirklandmathiaz: Ubuntu 8.10 is pulled from the lsb-release information16:12
kirklandmathiaz: there are 66 updates available for my system right now16:12
nijabamathiaz: you really should try it out, sounds like you have not yet16:12
kirklandmathiaz: my system load is 0.4016:12
mathiazkirkland: right. There is an action about a taskbar from last week minutes.16:12
kirklandmathiaz: I have 2 CPUs, currently operating at 800MHz16:12
kirklandmathiaz: and 4G of RAM available16:12
mathiazkirkland: having a way to load applets into the taskbar16:12
ScottK-desktopkirkland: Congratulations on core-dev BTW.16:12
kirklandmathiaz: and the time/date16:12
kirklandScottK-desktop: thanks for your support!  \o/16:13
kirklandmathiaz: that's a very difficult item;  i don't plan on implementing that any time soon16:13
kirklandmathiaz: screen-profiles is quite usuable now, and provides a lot of good information16:13
kirklandmathiaz: i'd like to focus now on finding/fixing bugs16:14
kirklandmathiaz: and improving the usuability16:14
mathiazkirkland: great.16:14
kirklandmathiaz: i'm going to contact the Desktop User Experience team16:14
kirklandmathiaz: and ask them if they can give this a look over16:14
mathiazanything else to add regarding screen-profiles?16:14
mathiazit seems that was is required now is more testing16:14
kirklandmathiaz: right16:14
kirklandmathiaz: and then ....16:14
mathiaz[ACTION] kirkland to write a blog post about screen-profile16:15
MootBotACTION received:  kirkland to write a blog post about screen-profile16:15
kirklandmathiaz: i think we should revisit this in 2-3 weeks, and consider if the ubuntu screenrc should be the system default /etc/screenrc16:15
kirklandmathiaz: so that any user who runs screen gets this magic16:15
kirklandmathiaz: in Ubuntu16:15
mathiazkirkland: seems like an idea to discuss.16:16
mathiazlet's move on.16:16
kirklandmathiaz: yes, and we need strong confidence of no breakage to do so, IMHO16:16
jdstrandkirkland: what about doing used/total for memory, rather than just total?16:16
kirklandjdstrand: i like that idea16:16
kirklandjdstrand: what about a percentage?16:16
kirklandjdstrand: i'd be interested in seeing how we can accomplish this in as few characters as possible16:17
kirklandjdstrand: I'm trying to stay within 80 columns16:17
jdstrandkirkland: I like that you give the total, and would be fine with a percentage as long as total was still there16:17
kirklandjdstrand: you see that we have a little more space16:17
kirklandjdstrand: k16:17
jdstrandkirkland: but, really, percentage is most important I think16:17
mathiazkirkland: jdstrand: let's discuss the improvement somewhere else16:17
jdstrand(if you had to choose)16:17
mathiaz[TOPIC] SRU for ebox16:17
MootBotNew Topic:  SRU for ebox16:17
mathiazsommer: ^^?16:17
mathiazzul: ^^?16:17
zuluploaded this morning waiting for motu-sru16:18
mathiazall the bugs have been filed/updated?16:18
sommerbugs filed for the needed patches16:18
sommermathiaz: yeppers :)16:18
mathiazand the motu-sru team is subscribed to all of them?16:18
sommermathiaz: should be16:19
* ScottK-desktop is pinging them right now.16:19
ScottK-desktopWhat bug?16:19
mathiazsommer: excellent work!16:19
sommerScottK-desktop: bug #27348616:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 273486 in ebox "Current eBox packages in intrepid don't work at all" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27348616:19
sommerbug #314606'16:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 314606 in ebox "ebox and libebox don't support Intrepid gconf version" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31460616:20
sommerand bug #25536816:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 255368 in ebox "ebox: Depends: libapache-authcookie-perl but it is not installable " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25536816:20
mathiazgreat - thanks for the work sommer and zul16:20
ScottK-desktopmotu-sru is looking at them now.16:21
mathiazThat's all the ACTION left from last week meetings16:21
mathiazanything else to add wrt to last week meeting?16:21
sommerScottK-desktop: cool, thanks16:21
mathiazallright. Let's move on then.16:22
mathiaz[TOPIC] libmysqlclient-dev package (MySQL 5.1) in jaunty16:22
MootBotNew Topic:  libmysqlclient-dev package (MySQL 5.1) in jaunty16:22
mathiazThe current version of libmysqlclient15-dev in jaunty is provided by mysql 5.1.16:22
mathiazWhich is a transitional package.16:23
mathiazAs a result pkgs in main that build-depends on libmysqlclient15-dev don't build16:23
mathiazex: ooo16:23
mathiazso the plan is16:23
mathiaz1. upload a new version of mysql-dfsg-5.1 that doesn't build libmysqlclient15-dev transitional package16:24
mathiazinstead it would build libmysqlclient16-dev16:24
mathiazmysql-server, mysql-client would also not be provided by mysql-5.116:25
mathiazand mysql-common would be renamed to mysql-common-5.116:25
zuloh crap sorry about that16:25
mathiaz2. upload a new version of mysql-dfsg-5.0 with a version of 5.1.30really5.0.7516:25
persiaWhy does it need libmysqlclient16-dev, if it's not going to have the transitional package: can't it just use libmysqlclient-dev ?16:25
mathiazso that libmysqlclient15-dev, mysql-server, mysql-client and mysql-common are provided by mysql-5.0 again.16:26
ScottK-desktoppersia: I think you want to provide a way to specifically build-dep on the 5.1 -dev16:26
mathiazpersia: the current 5.1 package from debian works like this:16:26
mathiazpersia: it provides a transitional pacakge libmysqlclient15-dev which depends on libmysqlclient-dev16:26
mathiazpersia: debian 5.1 doesn't have libmysqlclient16-dev16:27
persiaScottK-desktop, mysql-dfsg-5.0 doesn't provide "libmysqlclient-dev" as a package name, which is why I thought it might be useful to use the current Debian name.16:27
mathiazhowever mysql-5.0 provides libmysqlclient15-dev (which provides a virtual package libmysqlclient-dev)16:27
persiamathiaz, Right.  I just don't understand the value of the new package, unless there's some other use to which libmysqlclient-dev is expected to be put.16:27
persiaAh, virtual packages.16:28
persiaRight.  Nevermind.16:28
jdstrandmathiaz: is Debian planning to be able to have 5.1 and 5.0 in the archive at the same time?16:28
mathiazright now in Debian there is only 1 version in mysql.16:28
mathiazjdstrand: good question.16:28
zuli doubt it16:28
ScottK-desktoppersia: Oh.  I thought it did.16:29
mathiazjdstrand: considering that 5.1 in experimental provides a binary pkg libmysqlclient-dev, I don't think so.16:29
jdstrandif they do, this really sounds like something we'd want to collaborate on with them16:29
persiaScottK-desktop, as pointed out, it virtually does :)  We're both right.16:29
jdstrandmathiaz: if not, we'll need to make *sure* that everything upgrades ok when 5.1 in debian replaces 5.016:30
ScottK-desktopjdstrand: Yes, but we've got two issues: Fix it now so OOo will build and Do it right/talk to Debian.16:30
mathiazeven if Debian doesn't plan to provide both packages, we - at least for jaunty - will provide both 5.1 and 5.016:30
mathiazone in main (currently 5.0) and one in universe (5.1)16:30
mathiazuniverse (currently 5.1)16:30
ScottK-desktopAlthough Kubuntu has hopes of getting Amarok back in Main, so there may be bits of 5.1 that need to get promoted.16:30
ScottK-desktopThey are still trying to figure out how small those bits can be.16:31
mathiazso it seems that we'd have to provide libmysqlclient16-dev as a binary package from mysql-5.116:31
mathiazso my question is: what happens if both libmysqlclient15-dev and libmysqlclient16-dev provide a virtual package libmysqlclient-dev?16:32
mathiazis this something that should be done^^?16:32
ScottK-desktopAnd as we've discussed before, we either need to get Akonadi moved to 5.1 or make sure all the needed bits are co-installable.16:32
persiaIt's acceptable, as long as they conflict.16:32
mathiazor only one should provide libmysqlclient-dev16:32
jdstrandmathiaz: with your plan, what happens when Debian replaces 5.0 with 5.1 and we try to sync in a future version of Ubuntu? and when users go intrepid -> jaunty -> ...16:32
mathiazpersia: right. What should be the build-dep then?16:32
mathiazshould package build-dep on libmysqlclient-dev?16:33
* jdstrand is worried about an even bigger delta16:33
mathiazor on libmysqlclient{15,16}-dev?16:33
persiamathiaz, Whichever version is desired.  I'd recommend having libmysqlclient16-dev not provide libmysqlclient-dev for now.16:33
persiaBy not providing, packages won't get built against 5.1 by accident.16:33
mathiazjdstrand: I don't know.16:34
ScottK-desktopStep 3 of the plan that mathiaz and I discussed last night was "Beg Debian to do an Epoch and get things back in sync versionwise."16:34
mathiazpersia: right. mysql-dfsg-5.1 should only provide packages that are new.16:34
mathiazpersia: and conflicts with necessary existing packages.16:35
mathiazpersia: but not replacing existing packages.16:35
persiamathiaz, Right.16:36
mathiazallright - so to summarize:16:36
persiaScottK-desktop, may not need an epoch, depending on the Debian transition plan, and status at both jaunty release and jaunty+1 release.16:36
mathiaz1. mysql-5.1: provides libmysqlclient16-dev16:37
mathiaz2. mysql-5.0: version 5.1.30really5.0.7516:37
mathiazI'll upload these after the meeting.16:37
mathiaz[ACTION] mathiaz to upload mysql packages to fix libmysqlclient-dev package in jaunty.16:38
MootBotACTION received:  mathiaz to upload mysql packages to fix libmysqlclient-dev package in jaunty.16:38
mathiazanything else to add on this specific subject?16:38
zulyep sorry about this16:38
ScottKmathiaz: Double check there aren't any other conflicting package names.16:38
mathiazok - let's move on.16:39
mathiaz[TOPIC] WebArchitecture16:39
MootBotNew Topic:  WebArchitecture16:39
mathiazyann hammon around?16:39
nijabamathiaz: no yann2 around...16:40
mathiaznijaba: ok.16:40
mathiazlet's move on.16:40
mathiaz[TOPIC] Ubuntu Server on NAS devices16:40
MootBotNew Topic:  Ubuntu Server on NAS devices16:40
mathiazpersia: ^^?16:40
persiaYep.  I have some nice little ARM servers: hobbyist versions of the Buffalo consumer NAS devices.  I'd like to run Ubuntu on them.  Further, I'd like this to be reasonable for normal users.16:41
persiaWhat level of support should I expect, and what can I do to make that be "full"?16:41
zuli dont think the server team is equipped to support NAS devices16:42
persiaOK.  What's missing?16:43
zulmanpower for one16:43
persiaTo do what?16:43
mathiazpersia: first step: are all the packages required for running a NAS device built on ARM?16:43
mathiazpersia: then - which services you'd provide? nfs/cifs?16:44
persiamathiaz, I think so.  I would be expecting to run a fairly standard Ubuntu Server base configuration.  FTBFS is something I'm happy to chase towards that goal.16:44
mathiazpersia: ssh/sftp/avahi?16:44
mathiazpersia: I think almost all the main component are there.16:44
persiaWell, that's why I wanted to discuss it.  I'll personally mostly use ssh, but I suspect it's interesting in a wider sense for other services (for other people).16:45
* ScottK could see a NAS task if we had a scalable way to list out tasks....16:45
mathiazpersia: the only touchy thing is the administrative interface16:45
persiaHow so?16:45
mathiazpersia: do we have a standard way to create an admin interface for non-geeky users?16:45
ScottKSounds like a good Jaunty+1 spec topic to me.16:46
persiaWasn't there a framework involving lenses that was intended to do that?  Or does ebox do that?16:46
mathiazScottK: agreed.16:46
nijabamathiaz: isn't that what ebox solves?16:46
mathiazebox could do the job. we'd have to test it.16:47
persiaI can certainly add an agenda item to the next UDS, but I'd think that there's probably a light-weight solution that might be interesting in the meantime, without extra packages, etc.  I don't really mind a geeky interface.16:47
mathiazit may need to be trimmed down to only provide the necessary components for a NAS device16:47
persiaAre there services in a default server that shouldn't be run?16:48
mathiazpersia: the default install doesn't run any service listening on the network16:48
persiaJust because they sell it as a NAS device doesn't mean it's not a general-purpose computer.16:48
mathiazpersia: not even ssh16:48
persiaThe default Server install doesn't?  Oh.  I thought it did.16:49
nijabapersia: no, it is proposed as a task16:49
ScottKpersia: I'd say "Make it work as a command line managed NAS" is a good Jaunty goal and "Make it non-geek friendly" is a good Jaunty+1 goal16:49
persiaScottK, That seems completely reasonable to me.  What can I do to address the Jaunty goal?16:50
mathiazpersia: so IMO we should first make sure that the file services are working correctly on ARM16:50
mathiazpersia: that means making sure samba and nfs are working correclty16:50
ScottKmathiaz: I think this is a reasonable task for tasksel.16:50
mathiazpersia: as well as dhcp.16:50
persiamathiaz, Is that just a matter of pushing an ARM install through the already published testcases?16:50
ScottKThat or a metapackage of some kind.16:50
mathiazpersia: right - there is a testcase for samba16:51
mathiaztasksel already has a samba server tasks.16:51
mathiazpersia: how important is that the NAS device provides NFS?16:52
persiamathiaz, I don't care about NFS personally, although maybe someone does.16:52
mathiazpersia: IMO it's just a matter of testing.16:52
persiaI've hardware, so I'll volunteer to run an ARM install of Server through the test cases: shall I just file bugs on anything that doesn't work?16:52
mathiazpersia: making sure that samba, ssh and dhcp are working with the ARM platform16:52
mathiazpersia: seems like a good plan to me.16:53
ScottKWould we want anything different in an arm-server kernel that it's worth the trouble to make/maintain it?16:53
mathiazand as ScottK mentionned, tackling the admin interface could be done during the next cycle.16:53
persiaWhile I'm willing to chase some of the bugs, should I expect assistance from others to get them closed?16:53
mathiazeven though ebox may fit the bill.16:53
persiaScottK, There's already about 6 flavours of ARM kernel: I think NAS-specific is probably a jaunty+1 thought.16:54
ScottKpersia: As I'm pretty sure you know, NCommander has been doing a lot of portability work on armel.16:54
ScottKpersia: OK.16:54
ScottKHe could probably be encouraged to help.16:54
persiaYes, I've been seeing that, which is one of the reasons I brought this up.16:54
mathiazok - let's move on.16:57
mathiazI won't run the Open discussion topic.16:57
mathiazIf someone wanted to add something, please edit the Meeting wiki page16:57
mathiazso that we can discuss it next week.16:57
mathiaz[TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time16:58
MootBotNew Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time16:58
mathiaznext week, same time, same place?16:58
ScottKmathiaz: One quick think libdb4.3 died this week.16:58
* ScottK waves at vorian who is working on the lidbd consolidation stuff.16:58
mathiazScottK: great. thanks for reporting that.16:59
mathiazso see you all next week, same time, same place16:59
mathiazand happy iso testing for Alpha3 - due this week!16:59
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:59.16:59
nijabaThanks for running the meeting mathiaz16:59
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kernel Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Jan 21:00: LoCo Council | 14 Jan 16:00: Foundation Team | 14 Jan 17:00: QA Team | 15 Jan 00:30: Forum Council
pgranerTime for the kernel team meeting17:00
MootBotMeeting started at 11:00. The chair is pgraner.17:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]17:00
* smb_tp joins17:01
* cking is here17:01
pgraner[TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Hardy, Intrepid17:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Hardy, Intrepid17:01
pgranersmb_tp: How do we sit? Any news?17:01
smb_tpHardy: -proposed kernel went to -updates on the 8th17:02
smb_tpthis will be the one getting into the .2 release17:02
rtgsmb_tp: of course, there are updates immediately following because we missed some stable updates17:03
smb_tpIntrepid: there has been one regression I am currently fighting about the backlight stuff. I think the solution is near but this will move the date for the update here17:03
smb_tpRight, there were also some updates we tried to get into as well wich will be in the one -proposed that follows quite soon17:03
pgranersmb_tp: how did they get missed?17:04
smb_tpThee were 6 patches in the pull from to which I missed out. All at the beginning.17:04
apwwere they all sparc specific?17:05
rtgpgraner: it was about the time we changed our stable update policy.17:05
pgranersmb_tp: any procedural changes we can make to make it simpler in the future17:05
smb_tpNo not all. Three were some net proto and one ip4 sand two sparc17:05
rtgmissing them was a one time occurrence.17:05
smb_tppgraner, No I think it was justbecause it was done late.17:06
pgranerrtg: what would you propose?17:06
smb_tpSome patches got in before some not17:06
pgranersmb_tp: ok17:06
rtgpgraner: what do you mean? propse what? I don't think there will be  a problem in the future.17:06
smb_tpSome went in with different names. So if we now include them all as soon as a -stable update gets out it will be simpler17:07
apwnow that we are taking 'all' of them we should find it easier to valdiate it by simple counting in the future17:07
pgranerrtg: you said it was "about the time we changed our stable update policy", I was asking for elaboration17:07
rtguh, it was about _the_ time (sorry)17:07
rtgoh, never mind.17:07
pgranerrtg: Ah, ok that makes more sense then, never mind17:07
pgranersmb_tp: cool, just don't want to make it a habit.17:08
smb_tpOk, T61 works now with latest intrepid test kernel17:08
smb_tpNot intentionally for sure17:08
apwthat t61 thing is our last (known) brightness regression yes?17:08
smb_tpYes, AFAIK17:09
rtgno, Kano complained about Vostro regressions this AM17:09
rtgbut that was Jaunty, never mind.17:09
smb_tpThat thing is strange in ways that it should work with api but doesn't17:09
smb_tpwith the -11 default kernel?17:09
smb_tpHe surelydoes not use my ppa kernel17:10
rtgsmb_tp: never mind, he was complaining about Jaunty17:10
smb_tpOh yeah17:10
smb_tpBut might be the same fix17:10
apwyeah as the original regression was stuff backported from mainline which had hit jaunty17:11
rtgsmb_tp: thats likely, but we have time to work on it.17:11
smb_tpThe last patch to smart identify which laptops can do acpi seems dangerous17:11
smb_tpSo back to intrepid. Now I can get that kernel uploaded to -proposed17:11
smb_tpBut it will probably not be taken into -updates tomorrow17:11
rtgGreg has 2.6.27 stable updates on deck.17:12
apwi saw a bunch of stuff getting queued17:12
rtglooks like some amd64 iommu stuff that is important17:12
smb_tpThese would follow after I get this one up17:12
smb_tpThere is also the next un of CVEs going17:13
pgranerrtg: look like any ABI breakers in that set?17:13
rtghell if I jknow, I only look at titles so far17:13
pgranerrtg: ack17:13
pgranersmb_tp: anything else?17:13
smb_tpNo I thin I am done17:14
pgraner[TOPIC] Jaunty Status17:14
MootBotNew Topic:  Jaunty Status17:14
pgranerHow does the kernel look for Alpha 3?17:14
rtgall but armel looks good.17:14
rtgarmel is giving me a real PITA17:14
apwthe suspend-resume bits made the kernel17:15
pgranerrtg: lets hold armel until the arm topic17:15
rtgapw completed Jaunty lpia this AM17:15
pgranerapw: cool, I'd like to talk about the testing methodology and reporting for suspend/resume for a min17:15
pgranerogasawara: how do you see the bug report handling happening?17:16
rtgI think the big Jaunty/kernel change is gonna be ext4 support in the installer and grub17:16
ckingwhich is a good thing17:16
pgranerrtg: understood, lets get to that in a sec17:16
ogasawarapgraner: for suspend/resume testing I can send out automated calls for testing17:16
apwright now we are still waitiing for the apport and pm-utils changes to be accepted and uploaded17:17
apwpitti being away is making life difficult on that score17:17
pgranerapw: has anyone poked on the right folks to get them in?17:17
ogasawaraapw: it'll make it in time for Alpha3?17:17
BenCapw: do you need someone else to review?17:17
apwreviewers can only help if you have the time, the changes are on the bug17:18
BenCapw: at least pm-utils, we should be able to do17:18
BenCapport I would leave for pitti17:18
rtgor kees17:18
BenCapw: point me at the bugs, and I'll check into them after lunch17:19
apwi did talk to slangasek so he was aware of our aim and our desire to hit alpha-317:19
apwBenC, will do ...17:19
ogasawaraapw:  what's the bug # that you're using for tracking?17:19
apwbug #31641917:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 316419 in pm-utils "Changes to support suspend/hibernate/resume testing" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31641917:19
apwall three changes are linked on there, the kernel stuff is already in17:20
pgranerogasawara: once the bugs come in, are you going to do the usual triage process, do we need to help you in anyway?17:20
ogasawarapgraner: I can do the usual triage.  should be simple since I can use the tags.17:20
BenCapw: got it, thanks17:21
ogasawarapgraner: I'll yell for help if I need it17:21
pgranerogasawara: ok, lets assign them to apw since he is running on lead, he can then work with the rest of the team and further assign as needed, work for you apw?17:21
apwwe can see how that works and modify later if not17:22
apwwhen we have more idea of the volume.  as they have tags we don't necessarily need to assign them till we start wortk on them i guess17:22
pgranerapw: great, what I don't want to happen is they don't get looked at and fall thru the cracks. This way you can start to do a grouping of like issues etc...17:23
apwyep.  its a focus so we need to be on top of them17:23
pgranerogasawara: when do plan on putting the CFT out? And initially it should be to the canonical engineers for the Alpha releases, then to the Community for Beta and beyond.17:24
ogasawarapgraner: ah, so if we want just canonical engineers for Alpha's I'd suggest maybe sending email to distro team mailing list for call for testing17:25
apwyeah we just need to make sure the apport side is out before we ask17:25
ogasawarapgraner: assuming Alpha3 releases on the 15th as expected, I can put the call for testing out the day after17:25
apwogasawara, i'll let you know when i know all the bits are in place17:26
ogasawaraapw:  cool thanks.  I'll wait to hear from you first.17:26
pgranerogasawara: yep. We'd like to concentrate on a group of known hardware and work on getting that working right, then open to the community17:26
pgranerapw: did you and sconklin get all the docs and troubleshooting wikis updated?17:26
apwi need to get that done too17:27
pgranerapw: cool, make sure ogasawara has all the links for the CFT email when done :-)17:27
pgranerapw: feel free to ask for help from other folks as you see fit17:28
apwwill do ...17:28
pgranerBenC: how did you make out with the ACPI suspend removal?17:28
BenCpgraner: things are completed, but I need to send out the testing request17:29
pgranerBenC: Cool, you might want to update apw's wiki's with the info so its documented there and people don't try to use it as a testing mechanism17:30
BenCIt's mostly a no-op in a lot of cases, so I'm not too concerned if I do an upload later today for A3, but I want to make sure no one gets serious regressions17:30
BenCpgraner: ok17:30
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kernel Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Jan 21:00: LoCo Council | 14 Jan 16:00: Foundation Team | 14 Jan 17:00: QA Team | 15 Jan 00:30: Forum Council | 15 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
pgranerBenC: cool, thanks17:31
rtgBenC: do we still use pm-suspend?17:31
pgraner[ACTION] BenC to update wiki pages on removal of ACPI suspend method17:31
MootBotACTION received:  BenC to update wiki pages on removal of ACPI suspend method17:31
pgraner[ACTION] apw to update wiki docs on suspend/resume and send links to ogasawara17:31
MootBotACTION received:  apw to update wiki docs on suspend/resume and send links to ogasawara17:31
pgraner[TOPIC] Vanilla Kernel Builds17:32
MootBotNew Topic:  Vanilla Kernel Builds17:32
* NCommander wakes up17:32
BenCrtg: I'd have to check that...I'm still not 100% on how all of this stuff interacts17:32
pgranerWe did have the action from UDS to get the vanilla kernel builds working,17:32
apwi have the bones of the work for that, i put the actions in your wiki page yesterday17:32
rtghasn't happened yet17:33
pgranerrtg: understood17:33
apwi need to investigate how that fits in with multiple PPA's17:33
pgranerwhen do we think we can get it wired up and running17:33
ckingis this automatic building of vanilla kernels?17:33
rtgapw: oh, I didn't know you'd had time.17:33
apwyeah the idea is automatic builds of general tips matching the kernels17:33
pgranerapw: can you hand some of the research off to others?17:33
BenCcking: semi...I think it's only done for each rcX17:33
apwand ones matching the tip of linus17:34
apwpgraner, i think i need to set down my thoughts and progress somewhere and send it out, as the naming needs some thought so we don't collide with updates of our kernels etc17:34
BenCapw: the versioning mess is the reason we've been procrastinating about this till now :)17:35
BenCgoing to be hard to make it sensible17:35
pgranerapw: ok, you and I can take that off line and see when would be best to work on it and bring back the results to this forum17:35
apwpgraner, agreed17:35
pgraner[TOPIC] ARM tree aka.... the mess17:36
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM tree aka.... the mess17:36
pgranerapw:  can you give everyone the latest...17:36
* apw looks confused17:36
rtgapw has been working on lpia17:36
BenCyeah, I think rtg own's "the mess" :)17:37
* pgraner is confused sorry.... too many things going on17:37
rtgmostly all I've been trying to do is get it to armel build.17:37
NCommanderI can say something on the ARM trees17:37
rtgNCommander: go ahead17:37
pgranerNCommander: sure17:37
NCommanderAs it stands17:37
NCommanderWe still don't have a kernel in the archive with udebs17:37
NCommanderso d-i is blocking on the kernel17:38
BenCdidn't last kernel upload include armel d-i, or am I confused?17:38
cjwatsonlast one tried but didn't have udebs17:38
rtgmy build issues are related to getting udebs done17:38
cjwatsonI am happy to help with udeb build problems17:38
NCommanderrtg, i can look into this, I'm currently idle waiting on something else17:38
BenCrtg: are you having trouble with the way d-i stuff in the build is handled?17:38
rtgits minor stuff, but time consuming17:38
cjwatsoneasiest is if you send over a .deb, then the udebs can be tested on any architecture17:38
rtgBenC: yep, empty modules when kernel-wedge runs. stuff like that.17:39
cjwatsonI would like to be involved in non-trivial udeb changes in general anyway, since they often affect me further down the line17:39
apwis it kernel-wedge which makes the d-i stuff?17:39
apwi have been noting errors from kernel-wedge during normal builds17:39
apwsplits on null values, may be relevant17:39
NCommanderIts probably something in d-i that broke, I had this issue with the ports kernel for awhile17:39
cjwatsonrtg: if you send me a .deb and your current diff to debian/d-i/ if any, I can take care of it17:39
cjwatsonNCommander: no17:39
cjwatsonthe kernel's udeb build process is a build-dependency of d-i, not the other way round17:40
rtgcjwatson: I'm having trouble getting that far. the build unit I have isn't really stable.17:40
cjwatsonsurprised you're getting as far as kernel-wedge then :)17:40
apwdid we get a porter yet? i thought that was in progres17:40
rtgcjwatson: I haven't yet, at least on the babbage.17:40
cjwatsoneven a filesystem tree wouldn't hurt, though I realise you've been having fs problems17:41
rtgcjwatson: I'm not sure I follow? a file system tree/17:41
cjwatsonas in the build tree17:42
rtgits just the jaunty git repo17:42
cjwatsonthe tree with .o and .ko files in17:42
cjwatsonnot the source17:42
rtgi have it for one flavour17:42
rtgit take a looong time17:42
rtgabout 3 hours per flavour17:43
cjwatsonall I mean is, if you can send me the bits that actually require a real arm machine to build, then I can probably make use of that to fix debian/d-i/17:43
rtgI think the buildd must be quite a  bit faster17:43
rtgcjwatson: I don't suppose you could convine Adam or elmo to let you use a buildd for awhile?17:45
rtgconvince, even17:45
apwpgraner, were you chasing down what  happened to the porter for arm?  i had the feeling that it existed but wasn't integrated, perhaps that is available for someone like cjwatson17:46
pgranerapw: last I heard was that the hardware was with elmo17:47
=== asac_ is now known as asac
pgranerapw: and was told he was taking care of it17:47
cjwatsonrtg: I doubt it17:47
apwso cjwatson might be able to 'borrow' that17:47
cjwatsonI suspect it will be just as quick to get the porter box switched on for everyone as it would be to get it switched on for just me17:48
cjwatsonbut I will try to find out what's happening with it17:48
apwheh works for me17:48
pgranercjwatson: I'll follow up with elmo after this17:48
rtgcjwatson: that would be good. these babbage boards are shaky at best17:48
pgranerok, lets move on as we are running short on time....17:49
pgraner[TOPIC] Open Discussion17:50
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussion17:50
loolrtg: I have an evm here running jaunty; I could give you ssh access if it helps; it's not very fast and has relatively low memory, but ogra built kernels on i17:50
pgranerOpen floor ....17:50
liebhow responsive is linux-dvb? I'm working on #18175917:50
rtglool: you know, I could probably do the same. I have a fire breather.17:51
* BenC reminds ppl of the open week...kernel session on Friday for dkms usage17:51
lieband the h/w spt for the cx88 dev has been around for a while and was in pre-hardy.  the vendors stuff has not made it to the git17:51
pgranerBenC: thanks that a good point17:51
* apw queries what an open week is17:51
pgranerdholbach: can explain the best....17:52
cjwatsonrtg mentioned ext4 earlier; there's been at least one report so far of grub failing to boot an upgraded ext3->ext4 filesystem (only by mail so far, ubuntu-devel-discuss, Subject: Problem with patched grub1 & ext4)17:52
* pgraner hopes dholbach is nearby and can jump in quickly17:52
apwlieb, is that stuff we are carrying and is not making its way upstream?17:52
cjwatsonso that may be one cking needs to dive into ...17:52
ogasawaraapw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek17:52
ckingcjwatson: will do17:52
cjwatsonoh, Leann beat me to it17:52
liebapw, not only that, no one either pulled it or pushed it.  I'm thinking to push it just to get it done17:53
pgranerwould be good for the new guys to attend...17:53
BenCYeah, you guys can help seed questions17:53
apwlieb, yeah i think it does need someone to take and push things that are lingering17:53
BenCnothing worse than dead air, and me rambling for an hour17:53
pgranerBenC: you are giving it again right?17:53
BenCpgraner: right17:53
liebthat's what I figured.  wanted to know what the pattern/history was17:54
pgranerAnyone have anything else?17:54
apwjust that the lpia kernel is close to being uploadable17:55
apw(for jaunty)17:55
pgranerapw: do you know what the drop dead time is from slangasek?17:55
apwno not got that info17:56
rtgpgraner: its not an A3 deliverable17:56
BenCpgraner: since it's just linux-lpia, it should be low impact17:56
apwi thought it was the end of today17:56
pgranerrtg, BenC: davidm and crew need it for a contractual reasons I found out this AM17:56
rtgon A3?17:56
pgranerrtg: yep17:58
pgranerlool: can you confirm?17:58
slangasekwhat's dropping dead?17:58
pgranerrtg: we can take this offline with the mobile team...17:58
pgranerslangasek: latest time you can upload it17:59
loolpgraner: I don't think it's critical for A3 itself17:59
loolI think it's just important that we get up-to-date lpia support with patches and all in jaunty17:59
pgranerlool: davidm told me this AM that it was key for one partner17:59
loolOk; I'm probably not aware enough to confirm then18:00
pgranerlool, apw: lets take this offline and we can sort it as we are out of time18:00
pgraner[TOPIC] Next meeting18:00
MootBotNew Topic:  Next meeting18:00
pgranerSame time next week.18:00
pgranerrtg: can you run it as I'm on travel Mon & Tues of next week18:00
rtgpgraner: yeah, I think I'm still at home.18:01
pgranerok, great18:01
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:01.18:01
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Jan 21:00: LoCo Council | 14 Jan 16:00: Foundation Team | 14 Jan 17:00: QA Team | 15 Jan 00:30: Forum Council | 15 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 15 Jan 13:00: Desktop Team
dantalizing'sup huats19:36
huatshello dantalizing !19:40
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: LoCo Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Jan 16:00: Foundation Team | 14 Jan 17:00: QA Team | 15 Jan 00:30: Forum Council | 15 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 15 Jan 13:00: Desktop Team
ziroday@schedule Singapore21:01
ubottuSchedule for Asia/Singapore: Current meeting: LoCo Council 15 Jan 00:00: Foundation Team | 15 Jan 01:00: QA Team | 15 Jan 08:30: Forum Council | 15 Jan 20:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 15 Jan 21:00: Desktop Team21:01
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Jan 16:00: Foundation Team | 14 Jan 17:00: QA Team | 15 Jan 00:30: Forum Council | 15 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 15 Jan 13:00: Desktop Team | 15 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java

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