[14:36] <qense> hello
[20:25] <nand> newz2000: hey, thanks for your tips!
[20:26] <nand> I'll take that into account during my second mockups
[20:31] <newz2000> my pleasure nand, hope it didn't sound too critical, I think it's good work.
[20:31] <nand> tips are always welcome!
[20:31] <nand> now I just need to find time to go on...
[20:32] <newz2000> the first 90% is so easy compared to the last 10%
[20:32] <nand> the top bar?
[20:48] <Flaw> Hi, newz2000
[20:50] <nand> newz2000: btw, any experience with advanced Drupal caching?
[20:50] <newz2000> hey Flaw
[20:50] <newz2000> nand: no, it conflicted with our squid proxies so we have it disabled
[20:51] <nand> conflicted?
[20:51] <newz2000> yeah, the double caching caused problems
[20:51] <newz2000> I don't remember what they were now
[20:51] <newz2000> I think we have the basic caching turned on
[20:53] <nand> Right now I'm having non logged in pages being served to logged people, so I guess I have the same pb...
[20:53] <newz2000> nand: what percentage of your traffic is anonymous users?
[20:53] <nand> 80%
[20:53] <nand> I'm considering things like http://2bits.com/articles/increasing-drupals-speed-squid-caching-reverse-proxy.html
[20:53] <newz2000> so I learned some tricks...
[20:54] <newz2000> hang on, let me get details...
[20:54] <nand> okay
[20:54] <newz2000> boost module
[20:54] <newz2000> turn on query caching for mysql
[20:54] <newz2000> use memcached if you have enough ram
[20:55] <newz2000> the boost module basically serves your site as static content
[20:56] <nand> what's the difference with drupal built in cache?
[20:56] <newz2000> I don't know
[20:56] <newz2000> I was at a drupal conference in Dec and they suggested that
[20:56] <newz2000> also using memcached for the sessions table since it can be highly contentious on busy sites with a lot of anonymous traffic
[20:57] <newz2000> I have not tried any of this, just told about it
[20:57] <newz2000> however I was told this by the buy who wrote the book Professional Drupal Developement. :-)
[20:57] <nand> memcached is available for postgres?
[20:57] <newz2000> oh, you're using postgres?
[20:57] <newz2000> (but yes, memcache is not database dependent)
[20:57] <nand> ahh, I see the difference :
[20:57] <nand> "Once Boost has been installed and enabled, page requests by anonymous
[20:57] <nand> visitors will be cached as static HTML pages on the server's file system."
[20:58] <nand> Drupal cache stores cached pages... in database.
[20:58] <nand> that's less efficient
[20:58] <newz2000> ah, that would be a big difference
[20:58] <newz2000> why are you using postgres (out of curiosity)?
[20:59] <nand> because all QA websites used it, and I'm on the same instance :)
[20:59] <nand> Besides that, it has a very powerfull fulltext search
[20:59] <nand> get 20ms results in all the brainstorm database
[20:59] <nand> unlike the 300ms with standard SQL
[21:00] <newz2000> I'm a big postgres fan, I'm surprised you find the pg full text better than mysql's
[21:00] <newz2000> the prob with postgres wtih drupal is that it gets far less optimization and attention
[21:00] <newz2000> you may want to turn on query logging to see if you have queries taking too long and then manually optimize them (with indexes or whatever) and suggest patches to the devs
[21:01] <newz2000> considering your modest system you will likely notice problems others might not see
[21:01] <nand> the biggest part of SQL comes from brainstorm itself, and I have already fought a lot to reduce them...
[21:01] <nand> Still, I have some 300ms queries I wasn't able to reduce
[21:01] <nand> (one per page, of course)
[21:02] <nand> I'm thinking : A squid plus a patched Drupal would do the job of the Boost module.
[21:03] <nand> (patched so that it removes the "nocache" when not logged in)
[21:03] <newz2000> we have done the same thing for ubuntu.com
[21:03] <newz2000> yes it would, though squid works best when you give it plenty of ram though (so I hear)
[21:03] <nand> these are equivalent solutions, so I'd rather go with the first one
[21:03] <newz2000> give it a shot
[21:03] <nand> yeah, I'll see with Ng tomorrow
[21:04] <nand> I'll also ask him about memcached.
[21:04] <nand> brainstorm.ubuntu.com is _really_ slow right now
[21:04] <newz2000> I noticed actually
[21:05] <newz2000> do you know how to use query logging?
[21:05] <nand> with the devel module?
[21:05] <newz2000> no, in postgres configuration
[21:05] <nand> no. Won't that slow down things?
[21:06] <newz2000> I think you can set it to only log queries that take a certain amount of time
[21:06] <nand> great!
[21:06] <newz2000> I think you can set it in ms, so choose 500ms or something
[21:06] <newz2000> then optimize those queries
[21:07] <newz2000> check the sessions table especially since it gets a lot of traffic from anonymous users
[21:08] <nand> indeed
[21:09] <newz2000> regarding performance, you can probably just leave logging on for a little while and geet plenty of useful data. maybe 15 min would be enough.
[21:10] <nand> problem is, I don't have direct access to the production server, so that's not easy for me to interact with it
[21:10] <nand> I can of course turn that on on the staging one, but that's not the same thing
[21:10] <newz2000> yeah, tell me about it
[21:10] <nand> at least, I'll try to ask for some load graphes && slow queries tables
[21:11] <nand> well, some basic stuff
[21:12] <nand> Ok, that gives me a lot to experiment with tomorrow. Thanks for the tips!
[21:15] <newz2000> any time. ;-)
[21:18] <Flaw> newz2000: I will be joining the website team soon, hopefully.
[21:18] <Flaw> Once I get round to reading the Wiki, and actually joining.
[21:19] <newz2000> Don't wait, just join the email list and introduce yourself
[21:19] <Flaw> Ok!
[21:19] <newz2000> we'll be starting fresh with a new round of projects soon
[21:19] <Flaw> Ah, awesome! I have no idea how I am going to get involved (I'm sure there are numerous ways I can contribute), but I will pick something up no doubt.
[21:20] <newz2000> what do you like to do Flaw?
[21:20] <Flaw> I'm sure there are a few things, -website isn't too specific is it?
[21:20] <Flaw> (not like -artwork, for example).
[21:22] <newz2000> yeah, we have a variety of tasks and skills. art, icons, javascript, php, python, drupal, content, usability
[21:40] <Flaw> newz2000: I'll be sure to take a look on the Wiki.
[21:40] <Flaw> How many members does your team consist of?
[21:45] <newz2000> Flaw: depends, there are about a dozen people who were active during the heavy dev period for last release
[21:45] <newz2000> a lot of people chime in for discussion and brainstorming
[21:45] <newz2000> I think there are over a hundred subscribed to the list though
[21:46] <Flaw> Ah, I see!
[21:46] <newz2000> we're kind of on hold for various reasons
[21:46] <Flaw> So you actually have access to the website, or is this just a small part, forwarded to another group?
[21:46] <newz2000> I'm a canonical employee, the ubuntu webmaster
[21:46] <Flaw> Ah, that's cool!
[21:46] <newz2000> the team members don't have access to the website yet
[21:46] <Flaw> I see.
[21:46] <newz2000> maybe for jaunty + 1 they will
[21:47] <Flaw> It might be a good idea, to test giving access out, even in small portions to start with!
[21:47] <newz2000> yeah
[21:47] <newz2000> I've got several projects I want to accomplish but there's some reorganizing going on inside canonical so I'm waiting to see who goes where before finalizing my plans for this release
[21:47] <newz2000> I'm pretty sure we'll do at least these three things:
[21:47] <newz2000>  * start page (new folder structure, better translation)
[21:48] <newz2000>  * Uprade to Drupal 6
[21:48] <newz2000>  * GeoIP for download page
[21:48] <newz2000> I've got a few other things I'd also like to do
[21:48] <Flaw> They sound good!
[22:06] <nand> newz2000: by curiosity, is there the project going on of redesigning ubuntu.com?
[22:06] <newz2000> nand: not yet
[22:07] <nand> okay. If it is the case, I'd really like to see that inter website navigation bar happen.
[22:08] <newz2000> nand: yeah, me too
[22:08] <newz2000> there is a job opening in London for someone to head up that task
[22:08] <nand> which task?
[22:08] <newz2000> redesign of ubuntu.com and related
[22:08] <nand> didn't saw it on ubuntu.com
[22:09] <nand> didn't see
[22:09] <newz2000> http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_WD/
[22:09] <nand> oh yeah, that's mainly design. The area where I'm weak :)
[22:10] <newz2000> me too (which is why they're hiring someone ;-) )
[22:10] <newz2000> it will be part of Julian's team, the same team who will be making Ubuntu desktop as beautiful as mac os
[22:11] <nand> Julian sounded like he knew what he was talking about at UDS :)
[22:11] <newz2000> I can't wait to meet him
[22:11] <newz2000> (in person)
[22:12] <nand> and I'm eager to see the actual results!