nubaeLaserJock: I just installed Quanta... 202mb of dependencies!00:50
LaserJockyeah, sounds about right, KDE 3 stuff00:50
* Ahmuck needs to edit the wiki a bit more L/01:05
LaserJockdgroos: heah!02:18
dgroosLaserJock: Howdy do!02:18
LaserJockdgroos: I wrote a blog post about our discussion: http://laserjock.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/why-we-need-edubuntu-to-succeed/02:19
dgroosI took your advise about posting to the list (as you obviously know) and got some good answers.02:19
dgroosYesss!  I've had an RSS feed to your blog since I found it a few days back so I read it while I was at school today.  Thanks and i second and third your thoughts...02:20
dgroosAlso, thanks for your plug.  It's quite heartening to hear from so many people--I got about 40 hits from your reference :-)02:23
LaserJockdgroos: good, I was hoping we could send some stuff your way02:24
dgroosgets me psyched to do better about updating progress on the blog but there is only so much time BUT communication is important...02:25
LaserJockyeah, I'll be really interested to see how the project progresses02:26
dgroosI just went back to your site and saw there were now 9 comments!--just 4 the last time I saw.  I'm reading them and will post a comment, then get back here to try to understand the diverse ideas people came up with.02:31
dgroosOK, so I've got a few new questions now...03:32
dgroosLaserJock: What are the implications of the 3 methods suggested on your blog?  I do believe in low impact.03:34
dgroosAlso, there were some nice responses to my post to the user-list, but I wasn't able to figure out how to post a response to them--probably a web page but I could only find the archive--help anyone?03:36
dgroosFinally, I've got a printer issue where I can't add a network printer--very frustrating!  I've got a bunch of screen shots of various configuration screens and error messages but it doesn't seem like they fit on irc.  How is this sharing of info done?  Is there anyone who could help me on this?03:40
LaserJockdgroos: are you subscribed to the edubuntu-users mailing list then?03:40
dgroosYes--by digest03:41
LaserJockhmm, digests are kinda annoying that way03:41
LaserJockif you just get the individual messages you can just reply tot he list03:41
dgroosI see-so I need to change my subscription--got it.  Thanks.03:42
LaserJockdgroos: I would, it makes it much easier03:42
LaserJockdgroos: as far as the methods for locking down apps03:43
LaserJockhaving some sort of app that would manage the group permissions of the apps could possibly work03:43
LaserJockit would be a blacklist system where most of the apps would be available03:44
LaserJockI don't want to be modifying everything, it's kinda of unpredictable what will happen03:45
LaserJockI think anytime the applications are updated the permissions will be reset as well03:46
dgrooschanged subscription away from digest.03:47
dgroosSo, are you saying that Would could change the group permissions of Firefox to say, "level2" so than only people who were in that group would have permission to access it?03:50
dgroosBad typo there...03:50
LaserJockwell, since multiple levels probably need access03:50
LaserJockI would make a firefox group03:50
dgroos"Are you saying that one could change..."03:51
LaserJockand add people from the levels that are allowed to use Firefox to that group03:51
LaserJockthe PATH is a list of directories in which the computer looks for applications03:52
LaserJockso if I type "firefox" in a terminal it goes looking for it in the PATH directories03:52
dgroosfor example /home/dgroos/Desktop?03:53
LaserJockbut I agree with Frank that it's using a flathead for a phillips screw03:53
LaserJockyeah, in Linux most applications are found in /usr/bin/03:54
LaserJockthe problem with PATH is that we'd have to figure out a way to do it selectively03:54
LaserJockand I don't think it'd be that easy03:54
dgroosHmmm, thinking minimalisticly,  the key application is Firefox. really, that would get me 80% of the way if there were some way to control who can access Firefox and who can't.03:56
LaserJockyeah, I think a simple blacklist might be minimally invasive04:03
dgroosis it simple (read: could I set it up?)?04:06
LaserJockwell, we'd probably want to write a program/script to do it04:06
LaserJockbut if you say wanted to do it just for Firefox it wouldn't be all that hard to do, it's just manual labor right now to arrange something like that04:07
dgroosWhat would be involved?  what manual labor?04:07
LaserJockfirst you need to change the permissions of Firefox, something like sudo chmod 750 /usr/bin/firefox04:10
dgroosI could do that...04:11
dgroosdisallowing 'everyone' access, that make sense04:11
LaserJockthen you'd want to create a group, say firefox-perm: sudo groupadd firefox-perm04:12
LaserJocknow you make the group ownership of firefox be firefox-perm: sudo chown root:firefox-perm /usr/bin/firefox04:12
LaserJockso that means that the root user and anybody in the firefox-perm group can execute firefox04:13
LaserJockthen you could then go to System->Administration->Users and Groups and go to the Groups tab, find firefox-perm, and then you can add/remove people from the group04:14
dgroosThat easy?04:14
LaserJockthat's the "off the top of my head" version04:14
dgroosAs a work around, I could do this for firefox and a limited number of apps--yes labor intensive but I'm kinda desperate to get things up and running.04:15
dgroosAnd, I liked MRathburn and Jordan E. idea about trying to get the Sabayon project back on track as a longer term goal...04:18
LaserJockdgroos: right, sbalneav and I are going to have a brainstorming/bug squashing session tonight to see if we can't get it working04:18
LaserJockalthough sabayon doesn't specifically let you prohibit apps I don't think04:19
LaserJockit'll certainly handle menu changes, etc. but I think we'd still need to implement some sort of permission-tweaking to actually prevent execution04:19
dgroosthanks LaserJock andsbalneav, I wish I could provide at least moral support tonight but the hour when i turn into a pumpkin is arriving.04:21
dgroosMaybe I'll hold off on the firefox chown stuff for a couple of days--there are still a couple of other issues, both physical and network before going live for all students and see how your reviving of sabayon is going--let me know if I can help!!!04:24
dgroosHave a good eve all!04:24
dgroosThanks, LaserJock.04:25
LaserJockno problemo04:25
Babyhi there :)09:46
LaserJockDebian Jr. is a Debian Pure Blend, correct?09:47
Babyyup, exactly09:47
LaserJockso do you create an installable CD/DVD?09:47
BabyI adopted it a couple of months ago, because SynrG is quite busy with Debian Live and Debian eee09:48
BabyI plan to create installable media, yes09:48
BabyI'm gonna rename it to Debian Kids, though09:48
BabyI don't like how "Debian Jr" sounds :)09:48
LaserJockfor Edubuntu we've  dropped installation media09:48
LaserJockwe have an "addon' CD09:48
Babyyup, I read it :)09:48
LaserJockand we're working on sets of "application bundles" which are just metapackages09:49
BabyI mean, I'm giving a talk next month on both Debian and Ubuntu and it's usage for NGOs and international cooperation09:49
Babyand I'm talking about edubuntu among other things :)09:49
LaserJockso we have two primary desktop metapackages, edubuntu-desktop (gnome-based) and edubuntu-desktop-kde (KDE4 based)09:49
Babyyup, it's gonna be the 1st talk I give promoting BOTH Debian and Ubuntu in the same talk :)09:50
LaserJockfrom the KDE 4 side I'm interested in how far we can push things like plasmoids and containers for education09:50
Babymy plan is to develop 3 types of desktop: 6-8 yo, 8-10 yo, 10-14 yo09:50
LaserJockwe have 4, preschool, primary, secondary, tertiary09:51
BabyI plan to develop the whole desktop in KDE09:51
LaserJockright, we're trying to stay fairly neutral09:51
LaserJockin the sense of focusing on the educational bit rather than the entire OS09:51
Babyboth Linex and Lliurex (Debian derivatives) have a lot of experience designing desktopts for kids, they're educational distributions, and I wanted to get ideas both from them and from the sugar project09:51
Babyyup I understand09:51
LaserJockyeah, we're trying to get Sugar going here09:52
BabyI'm not targeting educational contents, that's the task of Debian Edu/Skolelinux :)09:52
Babyeven though I'm personally interested in educational contents too, btw, but not in the Debian Kids project09:52
LaserJockbut there is some overlap on the lower end of "Education" and "Kids" :-)09:52
Babythere definitely is, and some overlap with the Games Team too09:53
Babyand with my OpenRating project09:53
LaserJockthat's something we haven't tapped into much yet09:53
* Baby is founder and one of the admins of the Debian/Ubuntu Games Team09:54
LaserJockthere's some "disagreement" in the education community I think on how far to take games09:54
LaserJockah, cool09:54
Babywhat kind of disagreement?09:54
Babyas to which ones can be used for educational purposes?09:54
LaserJockkind of yeah09:54
Babyyou might want to have a look at http://wiki.debian.org/OpenRating , btw09:55
LaserJocklike if it's not strictly educational it shouldn't be installed at school, etc.09:55
Babyyup, I understand09:55
Babybut real teachers do use games in the classroom09:55
LaserJockoh heah, that's an awesome idea! re: openrating09:55
BabyI have a huge demand of some games both for Linex and Lliurex09:55
BabyI have the taxonomy almost finished09:56
Babybeen working for a lot of months on it09:56
BabyIt's partly in Spanish, but you might get the idea09:57
Babynop, sorry, it's almost totally in Spanish09:58
Babythis one os better :)09:58
Babyit uses DebTags as technological basis, and I plan to embed its usage in the game selection tool GoPlay!09:59
LaserJockthat is pretty thorough, wow09:59
Babyhttp://www.miriamruiz.es/weblog/?p=101   -> quite old blog entry but there is a screenshot09:59
BabyI'm working in the next generation, GoFind! , not restricted to games10:00
Babyand, well, I plan to get rid of FLTK as a widget toolkit in the newer one :)10:00
LaserJockit'd be nice to sort of get Debian Jr./Debian Edu/Ubuntu sort of more together on some standards type things like that10:02
LaserJockthere's a lot of common interest and even quite a bit of common technology10:03
Babyyup, I know10:03
BabyI'll be really willing to move it to a more group-wise development, it would lead to much better results :)10:04
Babycurrently it's in the DebTags SVN repository10:04
LaserJockare you subscribed to either edubuntu-devel or edubuntu-users?10:05
Babyboth, yup10:05
BabyI've been there for a lot of time :)10:05
LaserJockwould you mind sending an email to either/both about the openrating stuff and GoPlay! ?10:06
BabyI think I'm onlu in -users, how strange10:06
Babyyup of course! :)10:06
LaserJockand also if you feel like it an email intro of Debian Kids ;-)10:06
BabyI will, it'll be nice to start cooperating in this too :)))10:07
LaserJockand what you're looking at doing in the future10:07
Babyquite a long intro :)10:08
LaserJockcertainly working together with KDE would be excellent10:08
Babyyup, aaron said he was willing to cooperate and interested :)10:08
Babyand regarding games, we have veen able to start an inter-distro project for cooperating10:08
Babyincluding Fedora, SuSE, BSDs, some upstreams,....10:09
LaserJockoh good10:09
Babyit's already working, we're using freedesktop servers10:09
LaserJockit would be interesting to do more with education on freedesktop10:10
BabyI think it would be better to send different mails instead of a single big one :P10:10
Babyfor replies :)10:10
Babyyup, it could be done for education too10:10
LaserJockthings like user management, lockdown, etc. are big issues and  I think it would be helpful to get some broad discussion and perhaps standards10:11
Babywe're trying to do that for games :)10:11
LaserJockone could imagine for instance a Education or Younger User user interface guide10:11
LaserJocksort of like the Gnome HIG but more centered around younger users10:12
BabyI want to get the knowhow from Linex and Lliurex, as well as as much feedback as I can from kids10:13
Babythat would be awesome10:13
LaserJockBaby: ok, I've sent a post to edubuntu about aseigo's post10:22
LaserJockand now I need to go to bed (2:30am almost here)10:22
LaserJockBaby: I'd be interested in how the freedesktop thing works for you10:23
BabyI'll try to write some mails to the list later :)10:23
Baby11:30am here (Spain) :)10:23
Babyyup :)10:23
LaserJockah, Spain, I really liked it there10:24
LaserJockI've only been once for the Ubuntu Developer Summit in Sevilla10:24
Babyyup, I know which one :)10:25
BabyI was really about to go, but finally didn't10:25
LaserJockit was the best one I've been to10:26
LaserJockin terms of location10:26
Babyyup, Sevilla is a nice city :)10:26
morgsLaserJock: nubae: ejabberd was the only XMPP server that worked at least to some extent with a shared roster, which is what we have been using in Sugar for collaboration. This means you see everyone on the server, which works for small numbers of users, but doesn't scale beyond +-100 users. For Sugar 0.84 we have a better system for managing the people you can see on the server, and I think ejabberd is still the only supported server but it should be12:06
morgscome possible to use other servers too.12:06
morgsCollabora doesn't directly support ejabberd, but they have some minimal erlang and have patched it a bit.12:08
morgsThe OLPC patches are in debian and intrepid's ejabberd package, but you need to enable the shared roster in the ejabberd.cfg to use it right now for Sugar.12:08
=== alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
Ahmuckgooood morning16:06
=== jfredtech is now known as fritz87
Lnsgood day all!19:01
LaserJockhi Lns19:01
LnsLaserJock: maybe we should modify the topic here to reflect our new initiatives? :)19:02
Lnshey =)19:02
LnsAlso, just an idea, I think edubuntu and LTSP projects should be involved with GreenPeace to promote green TC computing in schools - they are a huge org and might be able to help us out.19:03
LnsIm a "member" with GP and they sent me this - if interested, something to look at and ponder how we might be able to collaborate.. http://usactions.greenpeace.org/action/start/230/?session_action=reset19:04
sbalneavAfternoon all19:09
* Lns waves to sbalneav 19:09
Lnsit's 11:09 here, you're jumping the gun ;)19:10
sbalneavHey LaserJock!19:11
sbalneavSorry, by the time I got back from Music last night, and kicked off a jaunty install, I was bagged.19:11
sbalneavI'm going to start poking at Sabayon this afternoon19:12
sbalneavReading through the source.19:12
Lnssbalneav: you are AWESOME!19:14
LnsI'm here to test if necessary19:14
sbalneavDude, it'll be at LEAST a couple of days before I even begin issuing patches.  Sabayons... non-trivial :)19:16
LaserJockto say the least19:20
LaserJockthey really put a lot of work into the thing19:20
LaserJockI really hate to see it DOA in Ubuntu19:21
Lnssbalneav: oh yeah, im just saying. Im not expecting any timeframe here, lol19:21
LaserJockman I'm glad I'm hosting my blog on wordpress.com19:23
LaserJockit's not a total slashdot effect but my last blog post is on linuxtoday, planet KDE, and digg19:23
LaserJockI think maybe we struck a cord19:23
LaserJocksbalneav, stgraber: you guys might be interested in bdmurray's announcement of per/package bug reporting guidelines19:30
LaserJockon ubuntu-devel19:37
LnsLaserJock: Congrats on the exposure!! That is so awesome. We need this momentum. =)19:43
LaserJocksbalneav: so are you working on sabayon in hardy, intrepid, or jaunty?19:51
sbalneavLaserJock: Jaunty, I suppose, for the moment, then we'll backport.19:56
Ahmuckmorning LaserJock19:58
LaserJockhi Ahmuck19:59
LaserJocksbalneav: have you tried running it on Jaunty?19:59
Ahmuckis there a good linux primer?  i need a one for a student who is helping inthe lab21:46
LnsAhmuck: what's the current knowledge of linux by the student? how old is he/she?21:49
AhmuckJunior, no knowledge at all21:50
Lnshmm.. maybe try the ubuntu tutorials, but if he's helping you out with admin stuff, maybe not21:54
Ahmuckadding users, passwd reset, etc.21:55
Ahmuckclearing lp021:55
LnsAhmuck: im sure googling will give you lots of options, might want to see for yourself what would be the best fit..21:57
Ahmucki'm doing that.  i recall someone suggested something, i have it in a bookmark somewhere ... *sigh*22:07
calimer-LaserJock how hard do you think it would be for me, a total newb, to package sandbox?22:10
calimer-and would I be able to do it on my mandrake distro?22:11
calimer-I don't mind putting work into it, just an estimation of the time requirement involved22:11
LaserJockcalimer-: for Jaunty, pretty tough I think, and from mandrake it will be particularly difficult22:11
calimer-I finished teaching my evening class for a bit22:11
calimer-jaunty is the new edubuntu release right?22:12
LaserJockyou've got a fairly non-standard build system so it might take some tweaking22:12
LaserJockand then there's all the copyright considerations22:12
calimer-well the debian free version should be pretty well set on that I would hope22:12
LaserJockyes, Jaunty is the codename for 9.04 (released in April)22:12
LaserJockwell, but you need to document everything, which can take a little time22:13
LaserJocknot a lot though22:13
calimer-okay, hopefully I can get it done22:13
LaserJocka basic package might not take too long22:13
calimer-getting it in edubuntu is a dream come true, not to sound corny22:13
LaserJockgetting one that'll make it into the archives is what will take more time22:14
calimer-but I mean the whole goal is to get it to kids and educational facilities22:14
calimer-what does that mean exactly?22:14
calimer-and I should really update my  nix drive to ubuntu, haha22:14
LaserJockwell, hacking together something that'll get it installed would be fairly fast22:14
LaserJockbut one that will pass inspection for inclusion into the archives can take some time22:15
LaserJockyou'll want to convert the .zip to a .tar.gz22:16
LaserJockand rip out all the .exe and .dll files22:16
LaserJockgetting rid of the bin folders would probably be a good idea22:18
calimer-that should be pretty easy actually22:24
calimer-all the windows related stuff is in one place22:24
calimer-well, in their own places I should say22:25
calimer-rip out mac related stuff too?22:25
calimer-sorry for the delay I was responding to question22:26
LaserJockthe important thing is to take out all the binaries22:27
LaserJockthe os x stuff isn't particularly important as long as it isn't taking up a lot of  space22:28
LaserJockcalimer-: what is needed to build this thing? fromdos I know22:28
calimer-makefile is what builds the binary22:28
calimer-oh as far as libraries?22:29
calimer-sdl I think22:29
calimer-going to check, I'm on windows actually :\22:29
calimer-bad me  I know but I had to install a windows partition for my doom 3 project a while back22:30
calimer-unfortunately d3radiant didn't work on nix22:30
calimer-SDL and SDL_Image and SDL_Mixer development libraries22:31
calimer-I think that is it22:31
calimer-it would be great if I could fit in updating the codebase and getting those new textures in22:31
calimer-but maybe I should do that after I have the version already in place ready to go22:31
LaserJockcalimer-: alright, here goes the first build attempt :-)22:42
calimer-btw I'm going to be changing up the "main" versions license as well to be a bit more friendly22:42
calimer-probably almost exactly like the license for Lite22:42
calimer-it is super old anyway, just never had a chance to play with it for a bit22:43
LaserJockis this normal? fromdos: File read/write error while converting src/enet/docs.22:44
calimer-probably, I think it might need permissions22:45
calimer-btw http://kids.platinumarts.net/wiki/index.php?title=Compiling_the_source_code22:45
LaserJockround 222:48
LaserJockwahoo, we're building this time22:49
calimer-er :D22:52
=== calimer- is now known as calimer
* Lns has reverted to offering pizzas to those who can fix bugs he is affected by - such as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1903322:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 19033 in firefox "systemwide default startup homepage ignored" [Medium,Confirmed]22:56
alkisgLns, do you ship overseas? :P23:01
Lnsalkisg: I will order a pizza in your vicinity and have it delivered.23:02
LnsIm SO serious about this.23:02
alkisgHeh... I might give it a try this weekend, then! :)23:02
* Lns declares pizza the official currency of open source software23:03
* alkisg is going to see if he can find anything in the fridge...23:03
Lnsdamn i need some lunch too.23:03
LaserJockcalimer: where does make install send stuff?23:04
LaserJockLns: dude, that's awesome! ;-)23:04
LnsLaserJock: ?23:04
calimerit should be in the main folder23:05
LaserJockLns: the pizza currency23:05
Lnsoh, hehe23:05
calimerthe top folder I mean23:05
Lnshey, if it works...23:05
LaserJockcalimer: oh23:05
calimerwait no in /bin I'm sorry23:06
LaserJockso we only need sandbox_client and sandbox_server?23:10
calimerI believe so23:11
calimerif you mean from the /bin folder23:11
LaserJockI've got:23:11
LaserJockcp sauer_client ../bin_unix/native_client23:11
LaserJockcp sauer_server ../bin_unix/native_server23:11
LaserJockwhen I run make install23:11
LaserJockthose are what I want23:11
calimerI'm surprised they didn't go in bin23:12
calimermaybe hirato just forgot to update the makefile23:12
calimeryou used the makefile in the /src directory right?23:13
calimernot in the mod/23:13
calimersandbox 2.3 or is it the Lite version?23:15
calimerah it is the lite version probably23:15
calimerokay now it makes sense to me23:15
calimeryeah that is how it is setup in there23:16
calimerso we can just toast /bin all together23:16
calimerI still need to e-mail those motu people as you suggested23:20
LaserJockcalimer: I think I finally got it23:42
calimerawesome, so what does that mean?23:42
calimeras in for the packaging part23:42
LaserJockwb Baby23:52
Babyhi! :)23:52
calimerLaserJock she is also interested in helping package sandbox23:52
BabyI've just discovered PPA :)23:52
calimerwhat is ppa?23:53
Babyit has kept me entertained half the afternoon :P23:53
LaserJockBaby: heh23:53
LaserJockcalimer: it's a part of Launchpad that allows you to upload package into a person Ubuntu repository23:53
BabyPPA is the personal packages archive in launchpad23:54
calimerthis is my current thinking23:54
calimermake sure we can get this version in edubuntu at the very least23:54
Babyhttps://launchpad.net/~miry/+archive :)23:54
calimerand if we have enough time I'd love to update the codebase and the textures23:54
BabyI think we can :)23:54
calimerthere is this great site I found called openfootage.net23:55
calimerthat has "debian free" textures23:55
calimerand also the "non debian free" version in would be good but might be more complicated since it has more content23:55
calimerbtw Baby I'm thinking about using the Lite license with the "non debian free" version as well23:56
calimerwow that is good stuff23:56
calimercheck out openfootage.net sometime too if you're interested23:56
calimersome great textures on there23:56
calimerbookmarked :)23:57
Babythe freedesktop games team is a cross-distro team we made23:57
LaserJockcalimer: ok, so I've got the thing to install23:57
Babythere's people from almost all Linux and BSD distros23:57
LaserJockcalimer: but it wants texture files23:57
BabyI had this started but it was quite long ago23:57
calimerLaserJock it is typically executed from a script from the main folder23:58
calimerthe top folder23:58
calimerso Baby what does that mean is left?23:59
calimerand anything I can help with?23:59
LaserJockcalimer: hmm, this thing needs more work23:59
LaserJockyour builds system is totally different than how we do things23:59

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