=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Forum Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 15 Jan 13:00: Desktop Team | 15 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 19 Jan 22:00: IRC Council
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jan 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 15 Jan 13:00: Desktop Team | 15 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 19 Jan 22:00: IRC Council
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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jan 13:00: Desktop Team | 15 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 19 Jan 22:00: IRC Council
loolUbuntu Mobile Meeting in 5 minutes11:55
* ogra rushes to make some quick coffee11:55
* lool finishes his tiramisu11:59
NCommanderwhats tiramisu?12:00
ogranow i'm hungry12:00
* lool throws Google on NCommander 12:00
* NCommander has flashes of hummus and chips12:01
Hobbseealways a promising start.12:02
davidmYea, great.12:02
=== StevenK is now known as MootBot
persiaMootBot, #startmeeting12:02
=== MootBot is now known as StevenK
Hobbseeare you going to play the part of mootbot too?12:03
davidmOK the meeting is started no mootbot so the fun commences.12:03
StevenKThe nick is registered, I didn't want to get killed12:03
davidmOK lets get started12:03
davidmpersia you did the agenda for today so....12:03
persiaOK.  Agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/2009011512:04
persiaFirst up: action items from the last meeting:12:04
persiaI reviewed and assigned the open specifications.12:04
persiaI also sent reminders to everyone I thought would be good to do stuff, and got corrections.12:04
persiaogra was to finish the touchscreen spec12:05
ograworking on it12:05
ograi had so much other stuff, but i'm happy to report that evtouch isnt ftbfs anymore and in jaunty :)12:05
* lool still didn't finish specs; I'm really late on this as these are to be completed and reviewed by tomorrow12:05
davidmpersia, so all spec's are assigned now?12:05
persiadavidm, I believe so: I'll triple-check12:06
ograso we have at least the old touchscreen stuff back in (which didnt look like it would be possible, not even our X team could help here)12:06
persia[ACTION] persia to verify all specs are assigned12:06
StevenKI think I can mark one of my specs as Implemented, but I can go through that later12:06
StevenKogra: I still need to re-seed it, that will happen post-alpha-312:06
persiaGetting back to the agenda...12:07
davidmOK is anyone going to have all of their assigned specs complete tomorrow?12:07
ograright, it also has the return of the "missing cursor" bug in the calibration tool12:07
ograbut thats minor and i have a fix12:07
StevenKdavidm: Complete in what sense?12:07
ograimplemented :P12:07
StevenKI have one of those, so nyah12:08
davidmas in done writing and ready to approve12:08
davidmI'd love implemented but some how I doubt that will happen12:08
davidmpersia, where are you on your spec's?12:08
looldavidm: Implemented isn't due tomorrow fortunately  ;-)12:09
persiaI need a little help with mid-jaunty-launcher, and will be chasing StevenK tomorrow, but otherwise in reasonable shape.12:09
loolI'll do my best to complete writing my specs up to approvable, perhaps over the week-end if I have no other choice12:09
davidmVery true12:09
StevenKpersia: I'd like your help to proof-read my specs, I think some need a little belting and polishing12:09
davidmlool,  if at all possible we are a week behind now.12:10
persiaStevenK, Sure.  Let's touch base in the morning.12:10
StevenKpersia: *nod*12:10
persiaSo, let's get back to the agenda, shall we :)12:10
persialool was to bring up DVD with bfiller and others and see whether it's a firm need.12:10
loolConcerning the UNR DVD: I brought it up during a call on UNR; I think they want an ISO and a way to install from USB, but they don't really care about it size12:10
loolSo they don't target what's in the current Ubuntu desktop DVD12:10
loolInstead they target having an useful image with an identified set of langpacks12:10
loolExact requirements to be confirmed over the UNR jaunty integration12:11
ograwell, the current iso is 1G big12:11
ograits already beyond any CD size12:11
loologra: The current DVD ISO?12:11
StevenKThe current .img12:11
StevenKIt's close to 1GB12:11
ograthe currnet ubuntu-netbook-remix,img12:11
persiaSo let's declare that to be a DVD-type image?12:12
ograwell, an USB img :)12:12
davidmThat can work, it would fit on a DVD blank, just not use it all12:12
loolOk, let me bring back context here: people were frightened about the word "DVD" last week because the Ubuntu desktop DVD .iso is relatively large and hence painful to test12:12
StevenKThe code will declare it oversize if it's >1GB, currently12:12
ograits 4.something gig12:12
StevenKI can live with that, personally12:12
loolThe UNR folks don't care about what's in the Ubuntu desktop DVD, they just want a good image; I don't think they target a CD sized ISO either12:12
ogra1G is handleable ...12:13
loolSo 1 GB is fine, 500 MB is fine; what matters is that we end up with a good UNR image12:13
mcasadevallyay for system crashes12:13
loolAnd right, I agree that testing a 1 GB or a 700 MB image doesn't make a big difference12:13
=== mcasadevall is now known as NCommander
persiaSo this can just be merged into unr-handling-jaunty, or does it need additional actions?12:13
loolNow we will see how big the image ends up being with the requirements of the UNR jaunty integration12:13
ograthe -mid image is intresting huge as well though ... is that through langpacks ?12:13
loolIf we want all langpacks and extra apps, it can take a bit of space12:13
davidmmerged into unr-handling-jaunty I think persia12:14
StevenKKeep in mind both images now have pools12:14
StevenKAnd pools are large ... :-P12:14
* lool dives in12:14
ograbut we only install langpacks, not lang-support, right ?12:14
ogra-support is overkill and not needed12:14
persiaRight.  Let's move on then.12:14
persiaCurrent items:12:14
persiaFirst up: I'd like to propose a transition to tracking progress through a roadmap.12:15
persiaQuick review of the status of any specs or bugs that need discussion, to make sure things don't get missed.12:15
davidmworks for me12:15
persiaSo, to support that, I've drafted https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap as a list of things for quick discussion.12:16
loolI'm fine with listing spec status, but what do you mean to transition to it?  Would you remove anything from the current meeting?12:16
loolWhat bugs qualify for the Bugs section?12:16
persiaYep.  Drop the going around to several people and asking about them, but rather focusing on the work needing done.12:16
persiaAnything you've been chasing, or you want to discuss.12:16
ograwell, we should do a quick rundown on the statuses12:17
persiaOK.  Going through them then:12:17
ograspcename: current status12:17
ograin each meeting until implemented imho12:17
persiaogra, That's the idea.12:17
StevenKI think the roadmap should contain the driver for the spec12:17
ograwe all only have three or four, should be fast12:17
loolOk; I don't quite see how that qualifies as a roadmap if we elect bugs there ourselves, but I don't really care about the name; I guess we want a) a list of specs to review on all meeting b) an entry in the recurring agenda to look at specs status12:18
ograStevenK, ++12:18
persiaHappy to add that.12:18
StevenKlool: So we call a roadmap. Shrug12:18
persiaI just picked "Roadmap" because other teams had roadmaps.  I could call it something else.12:18
loolThat's not what I call a roadmap12:18
* ogra calls it Gladys12:18
loolLet's call it JauntySpecs?12:18
persiaExcept I don't expect it to be specs the entire cycle.12:19
mcasadevallsorry about that.12:19
persiaI expect we'll have more bugs as we get closer to release.12:19
loolFor me a roadmap would typically encompass vaguer things than specs and cover more than just this cycle12:19
ograwell, we will probably have specs that arent implemented by FF either12:19
loolpersia: What's wrong with pushing them in the agenda simply?12:19
ograand fall over into the next cycle12:19
loolOr do you want to have all milestoned bug reviewed at all meetings?12:20
persialool, Yes, I'd like to review stuff at each meeting, just to make sure we're not missing things.12:20
loolpersia: I can't say it's a bad idea, it's exactly what we do during release team meetings, but it's going to take a while12:21
loolI would find the output useful for sure12:21
persiaRight.  Let's go hrough them quick-like then.12:21
StevenKOr we could update each spec with one line before the meeting12:21
StevenKAnd then just ask if there is any questions, or cries for help12:21
persiaStevenK, That works for me.12:22
davidmStevenK, +1 on that12:22
persiaOK.  Let's get them updated with oneliners for the next meeting, and proceed from there.  Everyone good with that?12:22
davidmBut since we did not do that this time can we just have a quick statement on each?12:22
StevenKI was about to say that12:22
persialool, You'd rather quick discussion in the meeting?12:22
=== mcasadevall is now known as NCommander
ograonly if there are issues i'D say12:23
loolpersia: I have nothing better to propose to what was proposed here12:23
persiaOK.  Let's go through them this time, and we'll look at updating the list with drivers and oneliners for next time.12:24
* StevenK likes one-liners12:24
loolI wonder whether it would make sense to list spec status in AR instead, probably equal pain12:24
ograi mean we should do both12:24
persiamid-screen-rotation: I still need to review the status of Aberto's work.12:24
loolI knew saying this someone would say both12:24
* StevenK silences lool and ogra12:24
persiamid-jaunty-launcher: StevenK and I will chat tomorrow.12:24
StevenKSounds omnious12:25
persiamobile-applications: Someone needs to volunteer to review an email reader12:25
NCommanderpersia, I did12:25
NCommanderemail and IM was assigned to me last meeting12:25
persiaNCommander, Sorry.  Missed that.  I'l update the spec12:25
persiamid-ship-seed-for-mobile-images : ?12:26
StevenKThe spec needs some polish, but it's done12:26
loolLink is broken12:26
persiamid-application-switcher: not even drafted, but I ought get to that this weekend12:27
persiamobile-team-seed-management ?12:27
loolDrafter is you12:27
persiaheh.  I think StevenK already implemented about half of it, but I'll get it drafted so we can tell tomorrow then.12:28
davidmpersia, yes12:28
loolrecovery-partition: needs drafting12:29
StevenKpersia: As in, work is on-going12:29
loolpoulsbo-packaging: needs more complete drafting, implementation in progress AIUI12:29
StevenKIt is12:29
* NCommander thought recovery-parition was drafted12:29
NCommanderI looked at that spec12:29
persiaoffline-installer: I've nearly completed the script to automate the testing, but need to write the spec12:29
ograoffline-installer: looks like ready for review, persia drafted fine :) no coding work started yet12:29
loolNCommander: Well the current spec is very vague and doesn't include UDS discussion12:30
StevenKI'm being bad and working on specs before they're approved12:30
persiaogra, Right.  I seem to have confied that with something else :)12:30
ograpersia, erm, i'm the assinee :)12:30
ogranot sure that will fully make it, but we should have a GUI for the build tools in any case12:31
ograeneral-resolution-for-touchscreen-handling: drafting, needs to get in shape, tech info missing yet, BOF info there. looked into evdev code12:31
ograselection-of-arm-images: drafting, though there shouldnt be anything to do for the selection case, the BOF session covered everything, images were selected, needs enablement on the build servers once d-i is ready12:31
ograafaik NCommander looked at d-i and will go on there once we're ready12:31
lool(It's not in the current 'Roadmap' page)12:31
ograright, its not really a spec12:32
ograsince we did the selection12:32
NCommanderd-i is dep-wait on the kernel udebs12:32
NCommanderWHich aren't very happy ATM12:32
ograbut we should keep it to see how far we got on the build servers12:32
ograor the general image status... or some such12:32
StevenKogra: And there is no image buildd for armel yet12:32
ograStevenK, how could teher be, we have no d-i and no livefs buildd :)12:33
ograand no initramfs possibilities12:33
loolpersia: I don't think mid-display-manager warrants being listed, but perhaps the bug relater to startx / CK should be?12:33
ogralive cant hapen unless there is initramfs support12:33
StevenKogra: When I say image buildd, I mean livefs buildd12:33
loolsquashfs-initrds: we need to kill that spec; I should just copy notes from UDS and #ubuntu-devel and close this12:34
ograyeah, but there are other showstoppers anyway that need solving first12:34
persialool, Yes, I'd think so.  What's the bug number?  Do you want to cover it?12:34
ograno kernel, no initrd -> no live image12:34
loolI don't have it off hand unfortunately12:34
persialool, When you find it, just remove the spec, and add the bug.12:34
persiaAnyway, I think I have a solution for bug #291670, but I'm still trying to figure out how the testsuite needs to be written.  Should be done in a couple days.12:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 291670 in base-installer "LPIA installer missing kernel" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29167012:35
loolSo, we've spent > 10 minutes on spec status12:35
loolBut this only covers our "mobile" specs12:35
ograbecause we werent prepared12:35
persiaWell, this is the mobile meeting, no?12:36
loolI have a problem with covering only MID and "mobile" specs progress in this meeting and not at all the other ones12:36
loolpersia: But we have no ARM meeting12:36
ograyeah, it should cover the team specs12:36
loolAnd we spend more time on ARM stuff than on MID/mobile stuff12:36
ograwhich will hopefully change again :)12:36
ograonce ARM is ready12:36
persialool, It's not really important how you spend your time: this set of specs is interesting to determine what needs doing, and how it's going for the Mobile flavours.12:37
ograduring arch enablement/portin we should keep that status here as well imho12:37
ograit will vanish as soon as we get automated images and the archive is complete12:37
NCommanderThere are a few outstanding ARM spec/issues that need discussion.12:37
loolpersia: I don't think it's fair to list half of the specs we work on and take action on that etc. every week and not cover the other half12:38
ograthats why i proposed to have an ARM section in this meeting :)12:38
persiaBut this is the Mobile Meeting.12:38
loolSo as awful as it sounds, I'm tempted to propose that we have a mobile team meeting where mobile team is not the Ubuntu Mobile project's team, but something like the desktop and foundation and kernel and server teams12:38
ograand most of the mobile team works on AMR atm12:38
persiaJust because you're working also on something else, doesn't make this the only meeting.12:38
persiaAnyway, we're getting off-topic.  Let's go back to the agenda.12:39
persiaAny Other Business ?12:39
davidmpersia, we come back to my concern, I don't want to schedule another meeting12:39
persia(related to the mobile flavours)12:39
davidmpersia, I propose we make the mobile meeting 1/2 hour and have a team projects meeting 1/2 hour12:40
ograthats what i suggested from the beginning ... though i'd have said 1/3 for projects12:41
ogra1/3 for spec stauses12:41
ogra1/3 for general mobile stuff12:41
ogranot in that order though12:41
davidmOK 2/3 mobile meeting 1/3 hour other projects12:42
loolThis meeting is supposedly about Ubuntu Mobile; there's nobody covering Ubuntu Mobile work outside of the team; I propose we hold a public team meeting where we discuss Ubuntu Mobile along other of the team's activity12:42
davidmLets face it we are enabling the entire main and most of universe so that includes mobile stuff12:43
loolIf we reach the point where we have enough Ubutnu Mobile topics to warrant a full meeting like the one we had until now, then we can reinstatee it12:43
ogralool, thats what davidm's setup above covers12:43
loolRight, I'm insisting on the way we shuffle the names and official contents of this and the new meeting12:44
loolNow this is not to say that contributions are not welcome, but it's a bit hard to bend ourselves so much right now12:45
ograthe topic calls this "Ubuntu Mobile Team" so i dont see a prob here, we're discussion what the ubuntu mobile team works on12:46
ogra(and note it doesnt say *canonical* mobile team ... *ubuntu* includes the community ... i dont understand the naming prob)12:47
loolThere's confusion between the Ubuntu Mobile project which is not related to arm and the mobile team, currenlty manned mostly by Canonical employees which work on ARM12:47
ograbecause we make that confusion up12:47
ograthe channel topic has a clear name12:47
loolI don't think so12:48
loolWe've put a process up for joining the ubuntu-mobile launchpad team which is aimed at MID/Netbook, not ARM12:48
ograso you would send people away that have worked with us on ARM stuff and want to discuss it in this meeting because they can grab us at the same time in a single place ?12:49
persiaI'd suggest they go to the Desktop or Sever or Foundation meeting, and discuss it there.12:50
ograor would refuse them from entering the ubuntu-mobile LP team just because their MID interest is in n800 only ?12:50
persiaNo reason not to discuss MID-on-arm here, or n800.12:50
NCommandermy issue with sending them to another team is the Mobile ARM guys our here, and not usually at the Desktop/Server/Foundations meeting12:50
davidmAny we are all not going to be at the  Desktop/Server/Foundations meeting so this is the only place to catch all of us12:52
loolHow can we take community input on what would be best for Ubuntu MID/UMPC/UNR on one side, and Ubuntu ARM enablement on the other?12:53
Hobbseeask community people at the meeting?12:53
persiaHobbsee ++12:53
ograby donating a part of the meeting time to ARM ... invite other teams to participate and tell the commnity about it12:53
loolWe don't have an Ubuntu ARM enablement meeting (for reasons described earlier); it's hard to cover these people12:54
ograand draw a clear line between the two sections12:54
Hobbseethe other option is to make a LP poll, and stick it in the topic of #ubuntu-arm or something.12:54
Hobbseeif you want to specifically target arm people.12:54
loolAre some people who would quality as community people around?  Could you share your opinion?12:54
HobbseeI don't have an opinion either way, sorry.  I don't follow anywhere near closely enough12:55
loolHobbsee: Would you mind replacing this meeting with one where half of it would be ARM and the other half MID/Netbook?12:55
ogra20min ...12:56
HobbseeSplitting the meeting into multiple sections means that the first one couldn't run overtime, which may be a problem.12:56
Hobbseelool: depends which was first, but I really don't mind either way.12:56
ograand it would need annoucement in the channels and MLs12:56
* ogra would see the "cant run over time" a good thing actually :)12:57
davidmWe are out of time folks12:57
loolMy feeling is that we've been designing this for easy access to the Ubuntu Mobile/MID/UMPC/Netbook community from the start, but didn't attract a lot of community so far and might have been optimizing the wrong way12:57
HobbseeThe other general concern is if you start late due to technical difficulties (or lack of coffee), your first meeting could be forced very short (and presumably you can't overflow to -mobile, as others will be participating in the arm discussion)12:57
loolHobbsee: That's a good point12:58
davidm2 minutes left12:58
loolI guess it's unlikely we come to any conclusion today12:58
StevenKI like how "lack of coffee" is a reason for a late start12:58
* StevenK glances at davidm 12:58
Hobbseeyou'd probably do better to have 2 meetings @ the same time, on different days12:58
HobbseeStevenK: *grin*12:58
ograHobbsee, thats what we want to avoid12:58
davidmHobbsee, that is a lot of meetings12:58
Hobbseedavidm: this is true.  But presumably they should be short and sweet, and various people would only need to attend one or the other?12:59
loolUnfortunately, it reaches a threshold on number of meetings and number of days where people have to wake up very early or stay up very late   :-/12:59
NCommanderHobbsee, as a general rule of thumb, I think both myself and davidm would be very cranky to get up very early on another day12:59
HobbseeNCommander: may you never come to australia.12:59
davidmIf they are short and sweet then bundeling should be fin12:59
Hobbseelool: this is true.12:59
* lool :-)12:59
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jan 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 19 Jan 22:00: IRC Council
davidmOK meeting closed13:00
loolOk folks, we have to leave the floor13:00
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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Java Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jan 22:00: IRC Council
persiaWho's here for the Java Team Meeting14:01
persiaAnyone else?14:05
persiaslytherin, Unless you've something extra to share, let's skip this week, and come back next week, when there are more of us.14:08
slytherinpersia: I have only one thing to tell.14:08
slytherinThe sync/merge of maven packages have stalled for now as I am not completely able to figure out why some packages have FTBFS in Ubuntu. ex. doxia-sitetools. I will probably continue the work over weekend.14:09
persiaYou're working with ludovicc on this?14:10
slytherinpersia: not exactly. I haven't yet collaborated with him about build failures. I will do that hence forth.14:13
slytherinin any case, the Debian developer who is uploading the package is uploading most of them to experimental. So for solving FTBFS I have to first check if any build dep from experimental will solve the problem.14:14
persiaOK.  I'd suggest checking with him, as he reported last week that he was deeply involved.14:15
persiaOK.  Until next week then :)14:18
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jan 22:00: IRC Council
=== bodhizazen is now known as bodhi_zazen
mib_dmkxwlmfcan you speak spanish?16:04
mib_dmkxwlmfor only english?16:04
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ubottuSchedule for Etc/UTC: 19 Jan 22:00: IRC Council19:19
popeythats not right19:19
ograits a very relaxed schedule :)19:20
=== popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15th Jan 21:00 UTC LoCo Council | 19 Jan 22:00: IRC Council
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jan 22:00: IRC Council
boredandbloggingooh oops19:26
boredandbloggingforgot to move the meeting on the calendar19:26
popeyglad I actually remembered ahead of time for once :)19:27
boredandbloggingpopey: how's life?19:28
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Jan 21:00: LoCo Council | 19 Jan 22:00: IRC Council
popeymadly busy :)19:35
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: LoCo Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jan 22:00: IRC Council
juliuxhi all20:57
boredandblogginghey hey20:57
itnet7hey there!20:58
=== cdrigby is now known as cdrigby_Singapor
cdrigby_SingaporGood <your time of day here> everyone. I am here for the LoCo meeting, representing the Singapore group TUSG (http://ubuntu.sg)21:00
zirodaycdrigby_Singapor: hey, its not started yet :)21:01
ubottuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: January 15 2009, 21:01:23 - Current meeting: LoCo Council21:01
boredandbloggingshall we get started?21:01
boredandbloggingpopey: ping21:01
boredandbloggingJanC: ping21:01
boredandbloggingeffie not around?21:01
JanCI'm here21:02
juliuxi am also here21:03
boredandbloggingshall we start with Singapore and then do the rest of the agenda?21:03
juliuxsounds good21:03
popeyrock on21:03
zirodaycdrigby_Singapor: this is the part where you speak :)21:05
cdrigby_SingaporHello everyone. Ziroday & I are here for the Singapore group.21:06
supervividand me21:06
cdrigby_SingaporAha. G'day, supervivid.21:06
boredandblogginghow many people were at the intrepid install fest?21:06
boredandbloggingpictures of the food look great :-P21:07
cdrigby_SingaporI was not at that one myself (I was in the US at the time). Perhaps one of the others was at the event. I'm sorry I missed the food!21:08
supervivid5 members21:08
supervividthe food were great!21:08
juliuxwhere there also some activities befor 2008? and what are your plans for 2009?21:09
juliuxany releaseparties again?21:09
supervividwe will be planning a few activities, and release party is in the radar21:09
cdrigby_Singapor2008 - software freedom day, plus a follow up "welcome to Ubuntu" session for those that visited our SFD booth.21:10
cdrigby_Singapor2009 - Regular meetings, new user "clinics" held three or four times/year, SFD 2009.21:11
cdrigby_SingaporA release party for next version, of course!21:11
zirodayjuliux: but to answer your question, before 2008 there was just loose organization and the setting up of infastructure such as websites, IRC and mainly getting everybody together21:11
juliuxziroday: so 2008 was your year;)21:12
cdrigby_SingaporIt will probably be February before we show much activity in 2009. Lunar New Year is soon, which is major holiday here in Singapore.21:13
boredandblogginglooks like you guys did great stuff for SFD21:14
JanCziroday: were the LoCo team members involved in Ubuntu-promotion before 2008?  (I mean, without calling yourselves "ubuntu singapore")21:14
zirodayJanC: to some degree, there were no big events planned. However we were all together21:15
cdrigby_SingaporI was using and promoting Ubuntu since 2005 or so. But I was in Paris, France before the end of 2006.21:15
JanCyou don't need (big) events necessarily, I was thinking about giving support etc.?21:16
zirodayboredandblogging: yeah it was really great. Plus we were the only desktop orientated group there which rocked. Lots and lots of people at our stand21:16
juliuxany plans to get more people working/helping your locoteam?21:16
zirodayJanC: ah support wise yes, the IRC and mailing list was up then. And were somewhat active. But as juliux said 2008 was our year21:17
cdrigby_SingaporJuliux: Recruiting is a big concern. Attending community events, such as Interesthink, is going to be a focus for bringing in more folks.21:18
zirodayjuliux: However the issue is getting people from the "Oh hi this is neat" in the conferences to actually using and then being part of the loco. Were hoping  the forums which are more new user friendly will make that task easier21:19
cdrigby_Singaporjuliux: as well, using Facebook and various boards and sites around the area, we will advertise our regular meetings and events.21:19
boredandblogginghow about LUGs at universities?21:19
cdrigby_Singaporjuliux & boredandblogging: Many of us are are involved in other FOSS groups here. That is the other source of recruiting.21:20
JanCare you working towards non-IT people too?21:21
boredandbloggingthink you guys have a good start, but I would like to see more promotion and support21:21
cdrigby_Singaporboredandblogging: Three universities have active FOSS groups: Singapore Management University, National University of Singapore, and Nanyang Technological University. They all joined us in participating in SFD.21:21
zirodayJanC: yep, we met quite a few on SFD. Unfortunately many are uncomfortable with IRC or mailing lists. The idea of a website and forum was really really meant to bridge that gap21:23
cdrigby_SingaporJanC: Yes, but that is a tougher nut to crack of course.21:23
boredandbloggingok, lets vote21:25
cdrigby_SingaporJanC: The "ubuntu clinic" idea is focused on end-users who are not IT-oriented. It is meant to be primarily educational for end-users.21:25
boredandbloggingseems like Singapore has good plans, but I would to see the LoCo come back in a few months21:26
popeyI have to say I agree with boredandblogging, I'd like to see more evidence of sustained activity21:27
boredandbloggingafter some activity on the forums and some events21:27
JanCyou can try places where end-users come, e.g. I gave a presentation to a computer club with mostly elderly people in it (most evenings they just talk about how to use styles in MS Word and stuff like that)21:27
JanCof course you also have to adapt your presentation to that public then  ツ21:27
JanCboredandblogging: +121:28
juliuxboredandblogging: +121:28
cdrigby_SingaporOK - shall we return after April release?21:29
JanCcdrigby_Singapor: I would say, return if you think you have enough to show, there are no deadlines21:30
boredandbloggingcdrigby_Singapor, ziroday good luck21:31
zirodayboredandblogging: thanks :)21:31
supervividthank you21:31
boredandbloggingok, I had some things on the agenda21:31
cdrigby_SingaporThanks. Au revoir.21:31
popeyso you do21:32
boredandbloggingis there anything we can do to promote the global bug jam?21:32
popeyyou could podcast about it :)21:32
popeywe could blog about it :)21:32
popeytwitter / identi.ca etc21:32
boredandbloggingpopey: we will be interviewing Jorge Sunday21:32
boredandbloggingthink all the LoCos know about it by now, right?21:32
juliuxyes it comes over loco-contacts21:33
dantalizingwho are you interviewing?21:33
boredandbloggingdantalizing: pffft21:33
boredandbloggingok, so next21:33
boredandbloggingthe next two items might be related21:33
popeyi dunno what else?21:33
popeywe could ask all the other linux podcasts to do it?21:34
popeymaybe do an audio promotion they can slot in?21:34
boredandbloggingpopey: thats a good idea21:34
boredandblogginga nice logo or banner21:34
boredandbloggingthat people can post on their blogs21:34
boredandbloggingand locos can post on their sites21:34
popeyyeah, "I'm going to bug jam!" type banner21:34
popeyhave a countdown?21:34
popeylike we do for releases21:34
boredandbloggingoh nice21:34
popeymaybe you guys could make a very short video about it - which would include jorge, maybe 3 mins long21:35
popeywhich we could all embed21:35
popeyseparate from the podcast but obv recorded on sunday when you have him21:35
boredandbloggingright right, I like that21:35
popeyfacebook too21:35
popeyhow about a facebook group?21:35
juliuxnot everybody has an account there21:36
popeynot everyone has flash21:36
popeynot everyone has twitter or identi.ca21:36
juliuxthere are you right;)21:36
popeymedia blitz :)21:36
boredandbloggingok, will see what I can do about the video21:36
juliuxi think it is more a task for the marketing team21:36
JanCmore places == more viewers21:36
popeyyup JanC21:36
juliuxand if we do something we should create content every loco could use21:37
* popey is creating a facebook group now..21:38
boredandbloggingthink the banner at a minimum21:38
* juliux doen't like systems where he as to create an extra account21:38
popeyyou dont have to juliux21:38
popeynobody is asking you to21:39
juliuxpopey: to read things at facebook i have to21:39
popeyand you have to have an internet connection to get on irc21:39
popeyget over it :)21:39
juliuxso the group you reach with a facebook group is very limited21:39
popeyyou're massively mistaken there21:39
juliuxi will stop and will let you do21:39
JanCit's for existing Facebook-users21:42
boredandbloggingnext topic...21:43
JanC<JanC> it's for existing Facebook-users21:43
JanCnot to push people to facebook21:43
boredandbloggingwe can discuss facebook later21:44
boredandblogginglets move on21:44
boredandbloggingat UDS we had talked about getting successful LoCos to share some stories21:44
boredandblogginglike what they have done21:44
boredandbloggingso other LoCos can learn21:44
boredandbloggingthink we said maybe doing an IRC meeting everyone couple of months21:45
boredandbloggingpopey: about that often right?21:45
juliuxi think regular irc meeting would be very good21:45
popeygetting them to come along and share21:46
boredandbloggingand gives other LoCos a chance to ask questions directly21:46
juliuxmy experiences is the best shareing is if people get contacted personal21:46
JanCsounds good21:46
boredandbloggingso lets try to at least have one or two before 9.04 is released?21:47
boredandbloggingshould we focus on one LoCo per meeting or just a roundtable?21:48
popeywe could trial it with one?21:48
juliuxi like the roundtable21:48
juliuxand perhaps a topic per meeting21:48
boredandbloggingyeah, maybe try with one, if its not too messy, then a roundtable?21:49
boredandblogginganyone want to organize this?21:50
JanCI think working with topics might be a good idea21:51
boredandbloggingwe need to pick one loco and maybe just send out an email to loco-contacts?21:51
* popey votes the french loco21:51
JanCand then find a couple of loco's to talk about what they do around it21:51
boredandbloggingJanC: what topic would you suggest?21:52
JanCI don't know, but we could ask the locos what they want/need ?21:53
boredandbloggingthink the first time, it would be easier if we just pick something21:53
boredandbloggingand then after they see how it works21:53
boredandblogginglet them pick21:53
popey"organising a release party" would be a good one :)21:54
popey(for the French)21:54
JanCfor example21:54
JanCand afterwards other locoteams can tell how they do it, so that people see there are alternatives...21:55
boredandbloggingso we are agreed on release party and the French?21:55
JanCif "The French" agree  ツ21:56
boredandbloggingJanC: it will become chaos anyway :-P21:56
juliuxif we need a second one i am interesting to do fair work or ubucon;)21:56
boredandbloggingjuliux: sounds good21:56
boredandbloggingJanC: just threaten to call huats 4K :-P21:56
popeyooo yeah, I'd like to hear about that juliux21:56
popeywe don't do enough organising for events like that and I'd love to know what goes on to make one happen21:57
dantalizing4k is his real name now21:57
juliuxso we have some content for the next months;)21:58
boredandbloggingsomeone want to ask huats?21:58
boredandbloggingI can do it21:59
JanCjuliux: fair work as in open source events or as in ordinary computer fairs?21:59
juliuxJanC: fair work for opensource vents at ordinary computer fairs;)22:00
juliuxJanC: most time there is an opensource area at the fairs22:00
JanCwell, not really at the fairs we do mostly22:01
juliuxbut we also have opensource fairs only like linuxtag22:01
JanCthey are fairs where they sell all sorts of new & used computers & computer parts22:01
JanCso we get mostly people looking for cheap computer stuff22:02
juliuxnormaly we don't attend this selling shows22:02
JanCthe advantage is you get a lot of "ordinary" people22:02
juliuxbtw we start next week ubucon-de 2009 organisation;)22:03
JanCand, we offer to install Ubuntu on second hand computers they buy22:03
* JanC once installed Ubuntu in Turkish for a young woman who just moved from Turkey to Belgium22:04
JanCnobody sold Windows in Turkish there...   :P22:04
boredandbloggingok, one more agenda item22:05
dantalizingwindows with turkish translations? or nobody spoke turkish to sell windows?22:05
JanCturkish translations22:05
boredandbloggingLoCos requesting to use LP lists22:05
juliuxi personal think locos should use normal maillingliste, because there you don't need an extra account to get on the list, a mailaddress is enough22:06
juliuxso the entry barrier is very slow22:07
popeyit's good to get people on launchpad though22:07
itnet7we had signed up for the beta ,and now we have 40 users in the beta and 70 in the mailing list22:07
popeyand signing up to launchpad is no more difficult than signing up for mailman22:07
itnet7in order to get people involved in bug triaging the need and LP account anyways22:07
popeyemail address/password is all you need22:07
itnet7should read: they need an LP22:08
dantalizingand who doesnt love launchpad?22:08
boredandbloggingthe decision the CC made a while ago and reaffirmed by mdke recently was that main list should be on mailman22:09
boredandbloggingsecondary lists (like for planning or admin) can be on LP22:09
boredandbloggingapparently LP still doesn't have some features (which, I don't know)22:09
popeythe good thing about launchpad is someone can sign up for a group (loco) and be on the mailing list with one extra button press22:09
popeyarchive is appalling boredandblogging22:09
popeynothing like the archiving that mailman uses22:09
popeyvery flat and ugly22:09
boredandbloggingahh, ok22:10
popeyi am not sure about spam management and other settings either22:10
JanCmailman doesn't do archiving AFAIK  ツ22:10
JanCbut there are several tools that with mailman22:10
popeyI suspect you know what I'm talking about though22:10
popeythe default one used by lists.ubuntu.com22:10
JanCI think the intention is to move everything to launchpad once launchpad is ready for it?22:11
dantalizinglaunchpad-users was recently moved to launchpad22:11
JanCin that case we should probably do what the CC decided?22:11
juliuxi think we should hand over that to the cc back22:11
juliuxthe have allready made an decision about that so they should change the decision if needed;)22:12
boredandbloggingJanC: yeah, long term it will moved to LP22:12
JanCjuliux: +122:12
boredandblogginganything else to discuss?22:12
dantalizingso is someone going to bring this up wiht cc?22:12
boredandbloggingwe need to start doing reviews again22:12
dantalizingis there support in this council for lp lists?22:13
boredandbloggingdantalizing: if you want the policy changed, yeah probably22:13
boredandbloggingi didn't know about the archiving issue, thats a big deal for me22:13
boredandbloggingJanC, juliux at UDS we talked about joining the mailing lists of the LoCos that didn't respond to the review emails22:15
boredandbloggingand emailing the lists directly22:15
JanCBTW: how is moderation infrastructure for launchpad lists?22:15
JanC(I haven't used them)22:16
popeydunno, i am not a moderator of any lp lists i dont think22:16
JanCboredandblogging: right22:16
popeymaybe one, but it gets zero traffic22:16
juliuxboredandblogging: sounds good22:17
boredandblogginghow long do we give them?22:17
JanCwe had an annoying person on the ubuntu-be list that I'm the admin of, so I think it's important22:17
juliuxboredandblogging: i think if send them twice a mail we should join there lis22:18
boredandbloggingjuliux: joing their list after sending the contact 2 emails?22:18
JanCjuliux: if we can join it...22:18
JanCare all locoteam-lists free to join or are some of them moderated?22:19
juliuxboredandblogging: yes22:19
JanC(and should we require lists to be free to join?)22:19
juliuxboredandblogging: how often are you mailing them? every month?22:19
boredandbloggingjuliux: I've never emailed any contact more than once22:20
boredandblogging(but I have never gotten any bounces)22:20
popeyguys - I need to go - I have to drive my mum home :)22:20
boredandbloggingpopey: later22:20
nizarusthx popey :)22:22
boredandbloggingok, so I send them one more email22:22
juliuxboredandblogging: good22:22
boredandbloggingthe thing is that I don't ask for a response22:22
boredandbloggingI should probably say they should respond acknowledging the email22:22
boredandbloggingif they don't respond within two or 3 weeks22:23
boredandbloggingjoin their mailing list22:23
boredandbloggingand then give them how long?22:23
juliuxi think we can resend them a mail after four week22:23
boredandbloggingresend which one?22:24
boredandbloggingresent to the mailig list?22:24
JanCwell, I'd say they should really respond within 1 or 2 weeks after we mail their list?22:24
JanCeven if it's not the official contact22:25
itnet7Thanks for discussing our topic earlier guys, Gotta Run! ttyl22:25
boredandbloggingI agree22:25
boredandbloggingif it takes more than 2 weeks22:25
JanCif there is nobody reading the list, then there is no locoteam22:25
boredandbloggingok, so email the contact a 2nd time, give them 2 weeks, if no response, email list, if no response in 2 weeks, we can consider the LoCo unapproved22:26
boredandbloggingand if they respond at any point, give them one month?22:26
boredandbloggingfor their approval application22:26
juliuxbut two weeks could be a normal holidy22:27
boredandbloggingthen I say 3 weeks for the contact, 1 week for the mailing list22:28
JanCjuliux: for a loco-contact, yes22:28
JanCbut 2 mails = 2 x 2 weeks22:28
juliuxoh yes22:28
juliuxso i am fine with your way boredandblogging22:29
boredandbloggingok, cool22:29
JanCand a mailing list has enough people so that normally not everybody is on holidays I suppose  ツ22:29
boredandbloggingJanC: hopefully22:29
boredandbloggingok, I'll update the wiki pag22:30
=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 19 Jan 22:00: IRC Council
boredandbloggingand then go back through the LoCos who never responded22:30
boredandbloggingthats all I have22:30
juliuxwhat about next meeting?22:34
juliuxand have contacted some locos for reapproval for the next meeting?22:35
boredandbloggingummm, no22:35
boredandbloggingthats my fault22:35
boredandbloggingI'll try to do it sometime next week22:36
juliuxthanks a lot22:37
boredandbloggingthanks juliux JanC22:37
juliuxi will go to bed now22:37
juliuxcu the next days22:37
boredandbloggingjuliux: nite22:37
JanCslaapwel juliux22:37

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