[00:00] haha wow this is so confusing [00:01] i installed nvidia-glx-180, and nvidia-glx-96 shows up in hardware drivers [00:01] :/ [00:03] damn proprietary driver mess [00:03] yeah tell me about it [00:05] http://i39.tinypic.com/2hf6ib7.png [00:05] enyc, theres the screenhost lol [00:06] and when i try to click activate it just re-downloads the 96 drivers [00:06] and then removes my xorg [00:07] ;-) [00:08] enyc, do u know where "hardware drivers" gets all its data from? [00:08] Melik: no ;-) [00:08] damn, if there was some sort of config file [00:09] ;-) im sorry i understand your frustration but i dont know [00:09] heh, its all right [00:09] hopefully i'll run into someone in this channel who might be of help [00:09] * enyc has display-corruptien in 8.10 64bit on this nvidia [00:09] 'it was not available with acceleration at lal originally but eventually the bugs with 64bit compile were sorted and now it sort of works ;-) [00:10] heh [00:10] im pretty sure if somehow i can activate the nvidia-glx-180 driver through hardware drivers [00:10] im more than positive it will work [00:11] nit seems i have to use nvidia-96 for this NV18/mx4000 [00:11] have you got it working under 8.04 (hardy)? [00:11] 'intrepid includes never xorg and other changces............ [00:11] everything in my system was working fine in intrepid [00:11] except my webcam [00:12] Melik: we actually have a club.. [00:12] -11 kernel will make it work, don't worry [00:12] what ethana2? [00:12] Melik: uvcvideo.. [00:13] ...which is 2/3 of the webcams I've seen [00:14] well its officially the 16th in ireland and the uk and alpha 3 aint out yet [00:15] tretle, im pretty sure there almost done [00:15] Melik: oh? I usually add a day or two for alpha release [00:15] just so I can get some sleep [00:15] are they getting the images ready or is it that there are bugs holding it back? [00:18] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/jaunty-alpha-3 [00:19] couple more things left [00:21] will it be released when the fixed commited bugs are accepted or are we waiting for the triaged ones too? [00:35] anyone experiencing gnome/X freezing on them when using firefox? [00:35] it might be more than just FF, i havent opened anything else yet.. [00:36] or it could just be the nvidia drivers, but either way it's pooched [01:00] I wonder will they take some tips from super ubuntu [01:02] super ubuntu looks like it kind of sucks [01:02] hey guys i am using ext3 how do i get the features of ext4 without formatng, and do i really need to use ext4 for anything besides speed [01:03] including wine, amsn, vlc and mplayer as default arent good things [01:03] why is providing wine a bad thing [01:03] either is including the propietary flash player [01:03] how coudl that every be bad [01:03] has no drawbacks, [01:04] because wine is the wrong way of approaching the problem [01:04] and what is the right way for someone to run there windows app on linux [01:04] because that is the problem the problem isnt that a linux alternative doesnt exist.. [01:04] becasue that is not the users problem [01:05] alcohol never fixes your problems, lol [01:05] LOL [01:05] the right way is a native port, alternative etc [01:06] wine has done nothing but encourage laziness among devs of gaming project's and also google to some extent with picasa [01:07] uh. [01:07] I disagree. [01:08] before the problem with game devs was that they didnt think there was enough people using linux now some of the lack of interest is due to the fact that they would rather rely on people having to run wine instead of producing a native port.. Allot of the time using wine as an excuse. [01:08] you can't rely on a dynamic wine [01:09] compile it in or it WILL break. [01:09] and Mattel isn't going to port their software to linux regardless of wine [01:10] I dont see the point in including wine in ubuntu, ubuntu is oss and should be endorsing oss software alternatives and not emulating windows closed source apps [01:11] ok i totally disagree [01:11] and here is why [01:12] ubuntu is linux for humans right [01:12] and humans sometimes wnat to use certain apps that they can only find in windows [01:12] whos job is it to code the alternatives users or dev [01:12] emphasis on the "linux" there [01:12] who is ubuntu for users or des [01:12] devs [01:12] that's what I fix. [01:12] ethbuntu: desktop computing for everyone [01:13] because if a better kernel comes along, however doubtful that is [01:13] the inclusion of wine is for the user base of ubuntu not for dev [01:13] its no ones job, yet everyones job. hence the beauty of oss [01:13] screw linux; and if it doesn't (probable) [01:13] the end user shouldn't even need to know what kernel they're on [01:13] no...its not... [01:13] im sorry [01:13] drop the linux [01:13] my mother uses linux [01:13] my mother uses an Ubuntu Dell [01:13] its not her job to go out learn c java, perl python...instead of installing her wine apps... [01:14] no one is asking her too [01:14] and instead devote her time to learning these lang and make an alternative [01:14] remove wine if you don't like it [01:14] no [01:14] and making alternatives only goes so fast [01:14] you can do what you know [01:14] install it if you want to use it [01:14] im just saying...adding it to wine is for the good of the users [01:14] the lumiera and gimp folks can't whip everything else into shape [01:14] doug___: and I'm with you. [01:14] I can finally tell people that windows apps will Just Work in Ubuntu [01:15] that's crucial. [01:15] how could yo not be i mean wine is one of the ONLY ways you can convince smoe people to swtich [01:15] amen [01:15] most people** [01:15] words rigth out of my mouth [01:15] in fact I need to get IE working right now [01:15] that is SO huge for linux conversion [01:15] so I don't have to use school computers to get to myFolder on blackboard [01:15] you tell them...hey use these apps instead but [01:15] if you cant fid one then just install your old ones [01:16] ok wait...i thought firefox could masquerade as ie [01:16] it's not a useragent issue. [01:16] (sp? maybe) [01:16] IE actually does something ff doesn't [01:16] has to do with activedirectory stuff [01:16] I think [01:16] I hqave converted alot of people to ubuntu over the years and when they first start using it there are some questions like how do i install winamp etc but when they figure it out they prefer the alternatives... And out of all of them including my parents non of them wanted to go back to windows [01:16] my sister still wants MSN [01:16] because emesene and aMSN aren't there yet. [01:17] ethana2: But that's a barefaced lie! Windows apps will _not_ Just Work in Ubuntu, even if we had wine installed by default. [01:17] _Some_ windows apps would, but many still wouldn't. [01:17] RAOF_: I thought there would be a warning and then it'd install wine automatically and run 'em [01:17] The only problems which I have found myself arent ubuntu's fault.... Stuff like closed standards implemented with microsoft office [01:17] ah. [01:17] RAOF_: I look forward to Gallium replacing wine3d so the wine folks can focus on the actual win* API [01:18] tretle: yes, they exist. [01:18] ethana2: As I understand it, that's technically infeasable. [01:18] RAOF_: whoa [01:18] ethana2: Because to implement a d3d state tracker, you need to implement win32. [01:18] ethana2, are you forcing her to use ubuntu or something... theres nothing wrong with someone prefering windows and if they want to use it let them. [01:18] you can't have .dlls with functions written in gallium? [01:18] tretle: I have to support it then. [01:18] I can not support what I do not use. [01:19] windows isn't worthy of being called an operating system [01:19] the girl I'm dating uses OSX, and that's fine, it's actually worth something [01:19] * tretle close to getting ubuntu installed on a secondary partition on every pc in his college [01:19] tretle: nice [01:19] I have the former head of it on my side [01:20] nic nice [01:20] you guys read abotu the entire country of korea switching to linux [01:20] doug___: seriously? [01:20] the idea is to install it on the second partition and slowly migrate stuff [01:21] I wish Ubuntu could run windows apps in place [01:21] doug___ I heard tha\t alright [01:21] like a windows chroot [01:21] and just use almost all the .dll files you paid for in the first place.. [01:22] hmmmmmmm.... while we are at it we shold have ubuntu load super nintendo, nintendo 64 and playstations roms as default [01:22] yes its pretty sweet, now its only a corporate switch but still pretty cool [01:22] :P [01:23] ok come on that is kinda silly LOL [01:23] doug___: if people expected that of us, then yes [01:23] they do not [01:23] oh, tretle, not doug___ [01:23] i was like um [01:23] LOL [01:24] but yes you are right [01:24] and the HUMAN pop expects wine to be there...because they expect to be able to use all there software in linux [01:24] wouldn't hurt to recognize the ROM mimetypes.. [01:24] what is the first thing someone asks when you proposition linux [01:24] "can i still run itunes" [01:24] "can i still run (insert game here) [01:25] i think this is huge [01:25] does amazon have an API open to, say, rhythmbox? [01:25] goal has always been software that "just works" [01:25] like, could we make an iTunes competitor? [01:25] it's not just window /software/ [01:26] those 'designed for windows' stickers are no joke, as any kernel hacker can tell ya [01:26] actually i have a friend who is trying to dev an mp3 aggregater that will be as featureful [01:26] yes you are so correct [01:26] ethana2 unfortunately they havent released an api people could use in apps like rhythmbox to access the mp3 store [01:26] tretle: :( [01:26] i know this is way off topic..anyone ever use rosetta stone [01:26] we need to request that of them [01:27] doug___: nope [01:27] cries...i want to try it out but i want some feedback... [01:27] someone tha has used it [01:28] nope [01:31] ethana2 - banshee comes close to dethrone itunes [01:32] hey what is the best way to rip dvds..i use to use anydvd and clonedvd [01:32] i haveint found much help on the linux side fo things [01:32] tretle: can you buy music through it? [01:32] doug___: brasero [01:32] doug___: new DVDs are obfuscated more though, so _everything_ will fail [01:32] until it's all updated [01:32] really [01:32] it comes with ubuntu [01:33] under 'sound and video [01:33] so no real way to backup recent dvds [01:33] nope. [01:33] i have it [01:33] even dd fails [01:33] I don't know what on earth they did to them, but it sucks [01:33] no app I've tried even has a helpful error message [01:33] not yet but they are waiting for the amazon api, I was discussing it with gabaug back when 1.0 was released and theres a few developers ready to jump at the api when released, i doubt rhythmbox will pick up support for the store as quick [01:33] ah [01:33] does amazon know this? [01:35] well yeah, I have sent an email before explaining to them that if they release an api then rhythmbox/banshee devs could integrate it and their service would have more penetration [01:35] seeing as rhythmbox is default for ubuntu and banshee is default for opensuse [01:35] that is one of the big thigns that held me back for awhile but then i just started downloading everything [01:36] doug___: if it's not on jamendo.com, I don't hear it [01:36] but i would liek to be able to do easy conversions of avi etc to dvd [01:36] I would expect them to relesae an api soon though especially after the announcement of drm free itunes, they need to do something to compete [01:36] I make a rare exception [01:36] tretle_: yeah, that was kind of their reason d'être [01:36] I probably spelled that wrong.. [01:36] doug___ avi->dvd can be done in brasero [01:37] can it... [01:37] i never really tried ot much [01:37] yup since intrepid or maybe hardy [01:37] nice... [01:37] indeed [01:37] i only do it for others..i see no need for dvds [01:38] i rather have 12-24 eps on a dvd instead of 4 [01:38] LOL [01:38] you can create dvd's and svcd [01:38] :) [01:38] can one run into problems iwth propsed updates and why is it still trying to update to kernal 27 when 28 is out [01:42] doug___: Yes, that's why they're in -proposed - to check whether they break, before rolling it out to -updates. And because Intrepid was released with the 27 kernel. [01:42] so it wont update ? [01:42] doug___: you can dist-upgrade if you trust it to not screw up config files [01:43] would it [01:43] but wait until jaunty goes stable if this is intrepid you're talking [01:43] doug___: would it what? [01:43] Not to the -28 kernel. But it will have (some) bugs fixed against it. [01:43] woudl it screw shit uo [01:43] !ohmy [01:43] Please watch your language, attitude and topic to help keep this channel friendly and helpful. Remember, there are kids here! [01:44] ok [01:44] if you're talking about dist-upgrade, I personally don't use it [01:44] I do a clean install every time [01:45] and I dual boot two versions of Ubuntu [01:45] so if I need a working webcam or skype right now, I can boot into 8.04 [01:49] anyone got issues with firefox displaying some webpages incorrectly and not displaying some images? [01:50] also for some odd reason epiphany-webkit uses xulrunner instead of webkit [01:59] !schedule [01:59] A schedule of Jaunty Jackelope (9.04) release milestones can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyReleaseSchedule [02:03] RAOF, [02:20] uh, the ISO hasn't hit the mirrors, has it? [02:20] I mean it's announced on the wiki but not available for download? [02:20] "Get it while it's hot. ISOs and torrents are available at: " [02:20] lucent: it's announced on the wiki? [02:20] right now? [02:20] link? [02:20] maybe that should read "Get it while it's not." [02:21] get it before your delorian runs out of banana peels! [02:21] lucent, can u link us? [02:21] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyJackalope/TechnicalOverview [02:21] thans [02:21] thanks* [02:21] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/jaunty/alpha-3/ is 404 here [02:22] Melik: us [02:22] Hey, I need to test out S/R in the new jaunty release, what's the best way to test w/o messing yp my existing install. [02:23] install a new partition? [02:23] lfaraone: flash drive probably [02:23] oh, yeah, new partition [02:23] well actually, that will mess with your exisiting install i think [02:23] or just install through wubi or something [02:23] new kernel updates for it won't apply because it'll take over grub [02:23] if u are dual booting [02:24] what does "Triaged" mean in a bug task anyways [02:24] is that like "procrastinated" [02:25] lucent: it means it has enough info in it for a developer to take a look at it. [02:25] http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/triage [02:25] ah okay [02:25] ethana2: you can use a configfile directive to fix that (in menu.lst) [02:25] Melik: I'm exlusively 'buntu. [02:25] temppy: oh? [02:26] the word meaning is a bit strange to me. Thanks for the re-phrase [02:26] ethana2: I currently use LVM. How hard would it be to resize my existing LVM partitions? [02:26] LVM? [02:26] logical volume? [02:26] I'm not sure [02:27] best bet is what ethana2 said, a flash drive [02:27] how difficult is it to resize the filesystem without LVM? [02:27] LVM itself just provides block devices [02:28] lucent: supposedly lvm makes it easier. [02:28] easier to resize block devices, yes [02:29] it doesn't magically know how to resize filesystems [02:32] hay all i was wondering if anyone was getting kernel panics with jaunty? [02:32] nope [02:32] shadowhywind: depending on how loud I shout at it [02:32] not really [02:32] lol lucent [02:33] it's mostly obscenities anyways [02:33] I don't blame it for wanting to panic [02:33] shadowhywind: which hardware configuration? [02:33] interesting, because earlier today, my laptop froze for the 5thish time, I restarted, and then constantly got kernel panics, finally had to restore a backup of intrepid [02:33] lucent which hardware did you want to know? [02:34] x86 or 64-bit, laptop or desktop, are you running anything strange like a fancy graphics card [02:35] amd64, HP laptop, no fancy graphics card since its a laptop [02:35] shadowhywind: there's ACPI issues that were exposed recently [02:35] would try booting with acpi=bios or acpi=off see what happens [02:35] also you could just be having overheating issues [02:35] hehe thats probably what the cause is, since intrepid has been the first release that i haven't had to use acpi=off or noapic [02:36] * lucent blares obscenities directed at his dell laptop [02:36] * ethana2 blares obscenities directed at lucent's dell laptop [02:36] it refuses to go through with the order I'm placing for a russian bride [02:37] I don't think its an overheating issue, since i never had an issue with overheating before + its on a cooling pad. I will try the acpi=off option tomorrow and see what happens [02:37] oh I've got an off-topic question [02:37] any of y'all experienced with making Windows XP OS install *from* a flash stick? [02:38] i.e. no CDROM [02:38] !swap [02:38] swap is used to move unused programs and data out of main memory to make your system faster. It can also be used as extra memory if you don't have enough. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SwapFaq for more info [02:48] I'm confused, when will Alpha3 ISO's be built? [02:49] lucent: when the showstoppers have fixes released [02:50] lucent: I usually count on all alphas being 24 hours late [02:50] Or, rather, when a set of daily isos go through testing without showstopper (install) bugs. [02:50] ah okay [02:50] You can help make this happen by _testing_ the isos if you wish, http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ [02:51] I don't have CD-R's, or I would help [02:52] haven't found a way to configure an alternate ISO onto a flash stick that works [02:53] RAOF: does a VM install 'count'? [02:56] ethana2: Yes, but mention the vm-ness. [02:57] lucent: I've done it before; it requires messing around with a netinst image or somesuch. [02:58] yeah I guess unetbootin is not enough [02:58] RAOF: I want an installer that has support for at least LVM and ext4, and then the option to add grub2 [02:59] grub2 has LVM and ext4 support, both which I need to boot my machine [02:59] Actually, I think I used a Debian initramfs for the USB stick, but I forget. [02:59] You're not trying boot-on-lvm are you? [03:00] I am using it now [03:00] yes [03:00] That doesn't work with grub, does it? [03:00] boot-on-ext4-on-lvm works with grub2 [03:00] Right. How did you bootstrap that? [03:01] did an ordinary install, copied the filesystem offline, set things up from a liveusb boot, and then restored from offline [03:01] there's no support in the installer for this [03:01] but it works. [03:01] Indeed. [03:01] You just need to add a layer of encryption to make it perfect (and unbootable) [03:01] lol @ that [03:02] I had whole-disk crypto and decided not to do that [03:02] it's too slow on laptop system [03:02] grub2 will apparently be growing crypt support in the nearish future. That's kinda cool. [03:03] grub2 will not be adopted by major OS distro though [03:03] why not? [03:03] it breaks too many things in the server market [03:03] Hrm, is there *any* talk about the faulty nVidia drivers on an ubuntu website? [03:03] we have separate server and desktop versions.... [03:04] I mean, I know it's broken, but I'd love some more info than that. :) [03:04] we'll see what happens though with that new Redhat managed boot splash thing [03:04] But that doesn't have anything at all to do with grub2! [03:04] if grub2 doesn't support pretty graphics, it won't get used [03:05] It already does support pretty graphics, though. [03:05] Your choice of VESA modes (on x86-like archs, at least). [03:06] yeah I'm not arguing for or against grub2 [03:06] it works for my situation [03:06] * toresbe thinks the bootloader having graphics is a bit of a distraction. The bootloader shouldn't have graphics because the bootloader shouldn't be *visible* unless one is dualbooting [03:06] I've always wanted to cram Linux into a single msdos partition and now I've done it [03:06] in which case... text is fine [03:06] RAOF: VESA != pretty graphics [03:06] 1440x900 isn't VESA [03:06] everything is stretched and stuff [03:06] It's not going to be adopted by anyone until it's got an actual release, though :) [03:06] ethana2: actually it is [03:07] toresbe: it is? [03:07] It is in _my_ video bios, yes. [03:07] hmmmmmm [03:07] I suppose my main data is that my VTs are 600x800 or something [03:07] ethana2: that is a VESA standard resolution [03:07] toresbe: interesting.. [03:07] is there a suggested tool to take an Ubuntu live install desktop cd ISO and put it onto an USB stick to use as an installer? [03:08] I've used unetbootin [03:08] System->Administration->Create USB Stick [03:08] ethana2: If you're on a PC, the VT is 720x400 [03:08] RAOF: that creates an installer, or does it install to a usb stick the running system? [03:08] toresbe: I am, but why is that? [03:08] ethana2: (though calling it 720x400 is less than meaningful since it is not addressable as graphics) [03:08] how can I change it to 1440x900? [03:09] toresbe: well yes, I realize that, but I'm saying.. [03:09] ethana2: You can insert the fb modules, but that really is a bit more trouble than it's generally considered to be worth :) [03:09] I'd like to use it CLI only off a flash drive as a portable ogg player.. [03:09] That takes a desktop iso, puts it on a usb stick, makes it bootable, and optionally adds a writable storage area. [03:09] http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/fb/fbcon.txt :) [03:09] RAOF: perfect, thanks [03:10] Nobody here has a link about the nVidia situation, though? [03:10] RAOF: I wish it worked from the menu though [03:10] RAOF: needs gksu [03:10] It doesn't? [03:10] * toresbe misses things like... video [03:10] which nv doesn't have :( [03:10] lucent: Calls with gksudo for me. [03:10] ah [03:11] toresbe: You'll need a recent geforce card, the -180 drivers, and IgnoreABI until nvidia decide to fix it. [03:11] RAOF: but if I use that, X keeps crashing. [03:11] Failing that, nouveau is _almost_ installable :) [03:12] If you grab nouveau-kernel-source from new, xserver-xorg-video-nouveau is installable, and should offer you sweet Xv. [03:12] RAOF: my mistkae [03:12] RAOF: I'm guessing then it doesn't want to install to SD [03:13] I have a USB<->microSD adapter [03:13] Maybe; it uses HAL to find all the mounted USB sticks, so it might be ignoring your SD. [03:14] RAOF: Hrm, it works better in single-monitor mode :) [03:14] RAOF: is that a bug or ... do I do something about it? [03:14] lucent: It might be a bug; perhaps the filter is too strict. I presume your SD card simply doesn't show up? [03:17] SD card shows up on desktop as SD image picture [03:17] that part works fine [03:17] usb-creator doesn't list any devices [03:18] Right. That's what I meant. [03:18] is there an over-riding mode? [03:18] No; I'm trying to find that hal-device-browser thingy. [03:19] thanks, I will be happy to test any suggestions [03:25] RAOF: gnome-device-manager I think [03:25] USB Device > USB Mass Storage Interface > SCSI Host Adapter > SCSI Device > SD/MMC Drive > 1.9 GB Volume [03:30] RAOF: also "d-feet" [03:30] * RAOF needs to find one of his USB sticks before he can help compare. [03:35] WHERE ARE THEY! [03:35] none on your keychain? [03:38] if d.GetProperty('storage.bus') == 'usb' and \ [03:38] Win! [03:38] in /usr/share/pyshared/usbcreator/backend.py [03:39] Right. That's what I was trying to find. [03:40]