| LaserJock | sbalneav: you might want to have a look at Fedora's patches to sabayon at some point: http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/handler.py?pkg=sabayon | 01:31 |
|---|---|---|
| primary | i just installed edubuntu and I am having trouble with fonts. in some programs meny text does not appear. How do I resolve this? | 16:01 |
| === primary is now known as BttleStarJesus | ||
| === BttleStarJesus is now known as BattleStarJesus | ||
| === primary is now known as BattleStarJesus | ||
| LaserJock | hi all | 18:10 |
| === primary is now known as BattleStarJesus | ||
| nubae | hi LaserJock | 19:42 |
| LaserJock | hi nubae | 19:42 |
| nubae | presenting edubuntu to a pedagogical school of Graz tomorrow... they are the ones that decide what to implement in the rest of the country | 19:42 |
| LaserJock | cool | 19:45 |
| alkisg | Good luck nubae! :) | 19:46 |
| nubae | thanks... have either of u tried the wiimote as whiteboard thing under ubuntu? | 19:47 |
| alkisg | Not me... don't have a wii.... | 19:47 |
| nubae | u can buy a controller for 30 € | 19:47 |
| alkisg | (neither a projector! :)) | 19:47 |
| nubae | which is all one needs | 19:47 |
| nubae | ah :-) | 19:48 |
| LaserJock | I don't have much of anything, period :-) | 19:48 |
| alkisg | Did you want to show them the wiimote? | 19:48 |
| LaserJock | no wii, no projector, no classroom, no students ... ;-) | 19:49 |
| nubae | not yet, no, but I thought its a pretty cool gadget to show | 19:49 |
| nubae | lol | 19:49 |
| nubae | in sugar we have something called classroom presenter | 19:49 |
| nubae | where u put up slides and can draw on them collaboratively | 19:49 |
| LaserJock | well, I guess I do have students, but no classroom, just a lab | 19:49 |
| nubae | its totally something that would pair up with the wiimote thing | 19:49 |
| alkisg | ...and maybe 10 remotes, one for each students? :D | 19:50 |
| nubae | well u can do 4 light points per remote | 19:50 |
| nubae | it works by putting an led in a pen end | 19:51 |
| LaserJock | so how exactly does this wiimote thing work? | 19:51 |
| alkisg | Hm... nice! So for small classrooms, 2-3 wiimotes are enough... | 19:51 |
| LaserJock | you hook the wiimote to a computer which then goes via projector to a witeboard? | 19:52 |
| nubae | well, it gets put behing the projector | 19:52 |
| nubae | behind | 19:52 |
| nubae | and it picks up light sources by bouncing infrared off it | 19:52 |
| nubae | so u use leds to do that | 19:52 |
| nubae | because the wii can do 4 remotes at once, u can use 4 concurrent pointers | 19:53 |
| nubae | so then u basically open any program that has ability to draw | 19:53 |
| nubae | and voila | 19:53 |
| nubae | no need for the whiteboard | 19:54 |
| nubae | thats the expensive part | 19:54 |
| LaserJock | I guess I'm still not getting it | 19:54 |
| LaserJock | so it ends up projecting what you're drawing in the program? | 19:54 |
| alkisg | LaserJock: there are some nice videos in youtube that demonstrate it... | 19:54 |
| nubae | a projector projects teh image | 19:55 |
| alkisg | E.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgKCrGvShZs | 19:55 |
| nubae | the infra red wii remote picks up the led as a point in space and draws | 19:55 |
| nubae | yeah u'll get it when u see it | 19:55 |
| nubae | but for presenting sugar or edubuntu, it would be very neat | 19:57 |
| nubae | http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Cpxo_beta1_ss_nav.jpg | 19:58 |
| alkisg | nubae, is sugar still in development, or it's been halted? | 20:00 |
| nubae | no its in development... sugarlabs has taken over everything | 20:00 |
| nubae | olpc is no longer involved really... or maybe a little on the hardware side | 20:00 |
| nubae | but like edubuntu, its a volunteer project now | 20:01 |
| nubae | education just isn't important enough | 20:01 |
| nubae | weapons first... | 20:01 |
| LaserJock | ok, one question though, how does the wiimote attach to the computer? | 20:01 |
| alkisg | That doesn't matter much, if it has something to offer, then people are going to work on it... | 20:02 |
| nubae | usb I believe | 20:02 |
| LaserJock | nubae: coolio | 20:02 |
| * LaserJock tries to think of what he'd do with a wiimote whiteboard | 20:07 | |
| nubae | aren't u involved with chemistry classes or something like that? | 20:11 |
| LaserJock | kinda yeah | 20:12 |
| LaserJock | but, in the lab | 20:12 |
| LaserJock | we don't really use whiteboards much | 20:12 |
| nubae | well imagine this scenario... u draw the molecules and formulas and all that on the board | 20:12 |
| LaserJock | ok | 20:12 |
| nubae | and then it gets automatically sent as a screenshot to all your students | 20:12 |
| nubae | they then save that in their journal or whatever | 20:13 |
| nubae | I can see lots of applications to the whiteboard | 20:13 |
| LaserJock | hmm | 20:13 |
| LaserJock | but I don't see how that gains me a lot | 20:13 |
| LaserJock | right now I have a blackboard and my students have pens :-) | 20:13 |
| nubae | teh blackboard cant really be distributed to every student afterwards | 20:13 |
| LaserJock | that's why they have pens | 20:14 |
| nubae | but then the better note takers have an advantage | 20:14 |
| nubae | like this they can concentrate on what is going on at the board | 20:14 |
| LaserJock | hmm | 20:14 |
| nubae | and u can go at whatever pace u like | 20:14 |
| LaserJock | but aren't we trying to get better note taking skills? | 20:15 |
| nubae | I'm sure they get enough of that in the classes where that is warranted | 20:15 |
| nubae | like English, foreign languages, etc | 20:15 |
| nubae | Learning should be made easier, no? | 20:16 |
| LaserJock | well, yes and no | 20:16 |
| LaserJock | yes, learning what you're supposed to learn should be as easy as possible | 20:16 |
| LaserJock | but you should still learn what you need to learn | 20:16 |
| LaserJock | and as a chemist still one of the biggest things I have to teach students is how to write and take notes | 20:16 |
| nubae | dotn u think u get that better being collaborative in teh classroom? | 20:17 |
| nubae | asking students to take over whatever u are teaching on the board... | 20:17 |
| nubae | or even from their computer terminal | 20:17 |
| nubae | there is no need really for pens... I just dont see that... every kid with a laptop is the way forward | 20:18 |
| LaserJock | well, frankly I think they just need to pay attention and try a little | 20:18 |
| nubae | in a controlled environment of course | 20:18 |
| LaserJock | for the stuff I do I really don't think laptops are going to replace pens any time soon | 20:18 |
| LaserJock | no doubt in some future time | 20:18 |
| nubae | my kids always paid attention when they knew they'd have to come up to the board and write something themselves | 20:18 |
| nubae | fear | 20:18 |
| LaserJock | presently I don't have time for that | 20:19 |
| LaserJock | I write, they write, I ask questions, we move on :-) | 20:19 |
| LaserJock | but my "teaching" situation is not the norm for sure | 20:19 |
| LaserJock | my environment is a laboratory and my "teaching" is mostly "hands-on" | 20:20 |
| nubae | ah right... | 20:21 |
| LaserJock | I'd like to get some netbooks to try out with a couple things | 20:21 |
| LaserJock | so far the students hate the computers | 20:21 |
| nubae | I'm sure u are not short of ideas... | 20:21 |
| LaserJock | they're rather do anything but use the computer | 20:21 |
| LaserJock | there are 2 computer-based labs that I think the wiimote thing might be cool | 20:21 |
| nubae | I think for maths it would be great | 20:22 |
| LaserJock | right now we just all go up to the computer lab and all 20+ students just struggle through a set of instructions in their little cubicle-like space | 20:22 |
| nubae | yeah, the non collaborative experience | 20:23 |
| LaserJock | I end up running around for 4 hrs helping people with the same problems | 20:23 |
| LaserJock | and I don't exactly teach them anything other than computers suck :-) | 20:23 |
| nubae | yeah I know that one too... I had the same showing how to use program X or program Y, until we started having collaborative sessions | 20:24 |
| nubae | via italc or projector | 20:24 |
| LaserJock | but one thing is that chemistry is *very* visual | 20:25 |
| LaserJock | it's the most geometric and visual of the natural/physical sciences | 20:25 |
| LaserJock | IMO at least | 20:25 |
| LaserJock | so one of the struggles is always trying to represent 3D via a whiteboard :-) | 20:25 |
| nubae | well.... one thing that is VERY cool with that technology | 20:26 |
| nubae | is being able to move 2 or 3 points at once | 20:26 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 20:26 |
| nubae | so u can rotate a 3d object in space very easily | 20:26 |
| nubae | zoom in, zoom out | 20:26 |
| LaserJock | I can see how this stuff could be cool | 20:26 |
| LaserJock | I just know that it would be a real struggle to get it going and to get people to use it | 20:27 |
| nubae | well, using it, I dont see so hard, making it work flawlessly, harder | 20:27 |
| LaserJock | I think most of the teachers would just turn it off and write on a whiteboard | 20:27 |
| LaserJock | we'd have to do quite a bit of training, which is something we're not very good at | 20:28 |
| LaserJock | trying to take a chemist and turn them into a teacher is hard enough, getting thing proficient with a computer is going to be tough :-) | 20:29 |
| nubae | yeah, guess so | 20:30 |
| LaserJock | it's getting the teachers who teach the teachers on board that's the trick :-) | 20:31 |
| nubae | right... thats what I'm doing now too | 20:32 |
| LaserJock | but maybe I can work on some demo's | 20:32 |
| LaserJock | I think this spring we'll have our linux lab maybe working | 20:32 |
| LaserJock | we need to upgrade ~15 machines to Intrepid first though :( | 20:32 |
| LaserJock | computers are such a pain ;-) | 20:33 |
| nubae | try clonezilla | 20:33 |
| nubae | it will upgrade all 15 at once in about an hour | 20:33 |
| LaserJock | I'm not sure if they're fresh installs or dist-upgrades | 20:34 |
| LaserJock | logging in to 15 computers and running update manager shouldn't take too long, it's just that it's gotta get done | 20:34 |
| LaserJock | then we fix AD authentication | 20:35 |
| LaserJock | then maybe we figure out printing | 20:35 |
| nubae | yeah but they need to download packages for each one | 20:35 |
| nubae | heh, printing should be plug and play | 20:35 |
| LaserJock | we have lots of bandwidth | 20:35 |
| LaserJock | "should" | 20:35 |
| LaserJock | we have huge amounts of printing problems with the windows machines | 20:36 |
| nubae | yeah.... I had one of these big massive industrial photocopiers that is also a printer | 20:36 |
| LaserJock | I'm hoping it just works in Xubuntu and it'll be a "hmm, the Windows machines never can print but the Linux ones work all the time" | 20:36 |
| nubae | think it was canon... | 20:36 |
| nubae | had to manually install the postscript drivers.. | 20:37 |
| nubae | man was that a pain | 20:37 |
| LaserJock | right now in Windows you have to re-setup the printer every time the machine is rebooted | 20:37 |
| nubae | gosh | 20:37 |
| LaserJock | and it's not a trivial setup | 20:37 |
| LaserJock | if I could just find an LTSP server I could try that | 20:38 |
| LaserJock | but honestly I'm not sure if it's that great of an idea for us | 20:38 |
| LaserJock | as my feeling is that LTSP takes some work to setup and keep maintained | 20:38 |
| LaserJock | and I know when I leave there really isn't going to be much of anybody to maintain it | 20:39 |
| nubae | Its improved a lot... intrepid is pretty maintenance free | 20:41 |
| ball | If I want to install Edubuntu stand-alone, without ltsp, can I use the ordinary Xubuntu install CD instead of the alternate? | 22:19 |
| LaserJock | well, kinda | 22:20 |
| LaserJock | the Edubuntu CD is an addon to Ubuntu so it assumes ubuntu-desktop is installed | 22:20 |
| LaserJock | so you might have to pull dependencies off the net to install some stuff | 22:21 |
| LaserJock | also edubuntu-desktop depends on ubuntu-desktop so you probably don't want to install that | 22:21 |
| LaserJock | but say if you wanted Edubuntu without ltsp you could use the Ubuntu Desktop CD just fine | 22:22 |
| ball | Hmm... perhaps I should install (Gnome) Ubuntu then instead of Xubuntu | 22:22 |
| LaserJock | kind of depends on what you're trying to do | 22:22 |
| ball | Is that what you suggest? | 22:22 |
| ball | LaserJock: I'm preparing a laptop that's going to Haiti | 22:23 |
| LaserJock | ball: not a very big hard drive? | 22:23 |
| ball | LaserJock: I don't know yet, I haven't booted it. | 22:23 |
| ball | Probably not tiny though, it comes with a FireWire port | 22:23 |
| LaserJock | because if you have plenty of diskspace you can install both | 22:23 |
| LaserJock | and then the user can log into either Gnome or Xfce depending how well it performs | 22:24 |
| LaserJock | or you could install Kubuntu and just install selected educational apps | 22:24 |
| ball | brb, I have to switch seats. | 22:26 |
| ball | Does the Edubuntu CD differ much from edubuntu-desktop? | 22:38 |
| LaserJock | well, the CD has all the stuff that's in edubuntu-desktop and a little bit more | 22:44 |
| LaserJock | but the CD itself lets you also pick individual apps in the GUI that pops up | 22:44 |
| LaserJock | so either way (CD or apt-get) will get you stuff | 22:45 |
| ball | It's a shame I have to install Ubuntu: that means two user interfaces to support instead of one. | 22:49 |
| LaserJock | well, you can do xubuntu | 22:51 |
| LaserJock | and then apt-get the apps you want | 22:52 |
| ball | What do the Edubuntu CD and edubuntu-desktop offer over and above the applications? | 22:52 |
| LaserJock | we'll they're meant to pull things together | 22:53 |
| LaserJock | make it easier to install on an Ubuntu desktop | 22:53 |
| LaserJock | the CD lets people in low-bandwith countries share the educational apps | 22:54 |
| ball | That's a good idea, I should send install CDs with the machine. | 22:56 |
| LaserJock | but we sort of have to make some assumption on what's already installed on the user's machine | 23:00 |
| LaserJock | otherwise we'd have to include *everything* | 23:00 |
| * ball nods | 23:02 | |
| ball | I'll try Ubuntu on the laptop, though I know it's more heavyweight than Xubuntu | 23:14 |
| LaserJock | it is, but it if it runs ok it's more featureful, IMO | 23:17 |
| ball | I'll try to convince myself that's a good thing ;-)\ | 23:21 |
| LaserJock | well, I think for kidos it's maybe easier to use | 23:24 |
| ball | "more featureful" usually means less easy to use in my experience. | 23:27 |
| LaserJock | perhaps | 23:29 |
| calimer | sandbox did it!!!! | 23:33 |
| calimer | top 100 at moddb for mod/game of the year!! | 23:33 |
| calimer | out of 9k!!! | 23:33 |
| ball | I'll give it a try anyway. | 23:36 |
| ball | Thanks a lot for your help LaserJock | 23:36 |
| calimer | and oh yeah LaserJock cool article | 23:37 |
| LaserJock | calimer: thanks | 23:50 |
| LaserJock | calimer: and congrats! | 23:51 |
| calimer | thanks!! | 23:51 |
| calimer | now we just need votes for top 10 :D | 23:51 |
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