[01:31] <LaserJock> sbalneav: you might want to have a look at Fedora's patches to sabayon at some point: http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/handler.py?pkg=sabayon
[16:01] <primary> i just installed edubuntu and I am having trouble with fonts.  in some programs meny text does not appear.  How do I resolve this?
[18:10] <LaserJock> hi all
[19:42] <nubae> hi LaserJock
[19:42] <LaserJock> hi nubae
[19:42] <nubae> presenting edubuntu to a pedagogical school of Graz tomorrow... they are the ones that decide what to implement in the rest of the country
[19:45] <LaserJock> cool
[19:46] <alkisg> Good luck nubae! :)
[19:47] <nubae> thanks... have either of u tried the wiimote as whiteboard thing under ubuntu?
[19:47] <alkisg> Not me... don't have a wii....
[19:47] <nubae> u can buy a controller for 30 €
[19:47] <alkisg> (neither a projector! :))
[19:47] <nubae> which is all one needs
[19:48] <nubae> ah :-)
[19:48] <LaserJock> I don't have much of anything, period :-)
[19:48] <alkisg> Did you want to show them the wiimote?
[19:49] <LaserJock> no wii, no projector, no classroom, no students ... ;-)
[19:49] <nubae> not yet, no, but I thought its a pretty cool gadget to show
[19:49] <nubae> lol
[19:49] <nubae> in sugar we have something called classroom presenter
[19:49] <nubae> where u put up slides and can draw on them collaboratively
[19:49] <LaserJock> well, I guess I do have students, but no classroom, just a lab
[19:49] <nubae> its totally something that would pair up with the wiimote thing
[19:50] <alkisg> ...and maybe 10 remotes, one for each students? :D
[19:50] <nubae> well u can do 4 light points per remote
[19:51] <nubae> it works by putting an led in a pen end
[19:51] <LaserJock> so how exactly does this wiimote thing work?
[19:51] <alkisg> Hm... nice! So for small classrooms, 2-3 wiimotes are enough...
[19:52] <LaserJock> you hook the wiimote to a computer which then goes via projector to a witeboard?
[19:52] <nubae> well, it gets put behing the projector
[19:52] <nubae> behind
[19:52] <nubae> and it picks up light sources by bouncing infrared off it
[19:52] <nubae> so u use leds to do that
[19:53] <nubae> because the wii can do 4 remotes at once, u can use 4 concurrent pointers
[19:53] <nubae> so then u basically open any program that has ability to draw
[19:53] <nubae> and voila
[19:54] <nubae> no need for the whiteboard
[19:54] <nubae> thats the expensive part
[19:54] <LaserJock> I guess I'm still not getting it
[19:54] <LaserJock> so it ends up projecting what you're drawing in the program?
[19:54] <alkisg> LaserJock: there are some nice videos in youtube that demonstrate it...
[19:55] <nubae> a projector projects teh image
[19:55] <alkisg> E.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgKCrGvShZs
[19:55] <nubae> the infra red wii remote picks up the led as a point in space and draws
[19:55] <nubae> yeah u'll get it when u see it
[19:57] <nubae> but for presenting sugar or edubuntu, it would be very neat
[19:58] <nubae> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Cpxo_beta1_ss_nav.jpg
[20:00] <alkisg> nubae, is sugar still in development, or it's been halted?
[20:00] <nubae> no its in development... sugarlabs has taken over everything
[20:00] <nubae> olpc is no longer involved really... or maybe a little on the hardware side
[20:01] <nubae> but like edubuntu, its a volunteer project now
[20:01] <nubae> education just isn't important enough
[20:01] <nubae> weapons first...
[20:01] <LaserJock> ok, one question though, how does the wiimote attach to the computer?
[20:02] <alkisg> That doesn't matter much, if it has something to offer, then people are going to work on it...
[20:02] <nubae> usb I believe
[20:02] <LaserJock> nubae: coolio
[20:07]  * LaserJock tries to think of what he'd do with a wiimote whiteboard
[20:11] <nubae> aren't u involved with chemistry classes or something like that?
[20:12] <LaserJock> kinda yeah
[20:12] <LaserJock> but, in the lab
[20:12] <LaserJock> we don't really use whiteboards much
[20:12] <nubae> well imagine this scenario... u draw the molecules and formulas and all that on the board
[20:12] <LaserJock> ok
[20:12] <nubae> and then it gets automatically sent as a screenshot to all your students
[20:13] <nubae> they then save that in their journal or whatever
[20:13] <nubae> I can see lots of applications to the whiteboard
[20:13] <LaserJock> hmm
[20:13] <LaserJock> but I don't see how that gains me a lot
[20:13] <LaserJock> right now I have a blackboard and my students have pens :-)
[20:13] <nubae> teh blackboard cant really be distributed to every student afterwards
[20:14] <LaserJock> that's why they have pens
[20:14] <nubae> but then the better note takers have an advantage
[20:14] <nubae> like this they can concentrate on what is going on at the board
[20:14] <LaserJock> hmm
[20:14] <nubae> and u can go at whatever pace u like
[20:15] <LaserJock> but aren't we trying to get better note taking skills?
[20:15] <nubae> I'm sure they get enough of that in the classes where that is warranted
[20:15] <nubae> like English, foreign languages, etc
[20:16] <nubae> Learning should be made easier, no?
[20:16] <LaserJock> well, yes and no
[20:16] <LaserJock> yes, learning what you're supposed to learn should be as easy as possible
[20:16] <LaserJock> but  you should still learn what you need to learn
[20:16] <LaserJock> and as a chemist still one of the biggest things I have to teach students is how to write and take notes
[20:17] <nubae> dotn u think u get that better being collaborative in teh classroom?
[20:17] <nubae> asking students to take over whatever u are teaching on the board...
[20:17] <nubae> or even from their computer terminal
[20:18] <nubae> there is no need really for pens... I just dont see that... every kid with a laptop is the way forward
[20:18] <LaserJock> well, frankly I think they just need to pay attention and try a little
[20:18] <nubae> in a controlled environment of course
[20:18] <LaserJock> for the stuff I do I really don't think laptops are going to replace pens any time soon
[20:18] <LaserJock> no doubt in some future time
[20:18] <nubae> my kids always paid attention when they knew they'd have to come up to the board and write something themselves
[20:18] <nubae> fear
[20:19] <LaserJock> presently I don't have time for that
[20:19] <LaserJock> I write, they write, I ask questions, we move on :-)
[20:19] <LaserJock> but my "teaching" situation is not the norm for sure
[20:20] <LaserJock> my environment is a laboratory and my "teaching" is mostly "hands-on"
[20:21] <nubae> ah right...
[20:21] <LaserJock> I'd like to get some netbooks to try out with a couple things
[20:21] <LaserJock> so far the students hate the computers
[20:21] <nubae> I'm sure u are not short of ideas...
[20:21] <LaserJock> they're rather do anything but use the computer
[20:21] <LaserJock> there are 2 computer-based labs that I think the wiimote thing might be cool
[20:22] <nubae> I think for maths it would be great
[20:22] <LaserJock> right now we just all go up to the computer lab and all 20+ students just struggle through a set of instructions in their little cubicle-like space
[20:23] <nubae> yeah, the non collaborative experience
[20:23] <LaserJock> I end up running around for 4 hrs helping people with the same problems
[20:23] <LaserJock> and I don't exactly teach them anything other than computers suck :-)
[20:24] <nubae> yeah I know that one too... I had the same showing how to use program X or program Y, until we started having collaborative sessions
[20:24] <nubae> via italc or projector
[20:25] <LaserJock> but one thing is that chemistry is *very* visual
[20:25] <LaserJock> it's the most geometric and visual of the natural/physical sciences
[20:25] <LaserJock> IMO at least
[20:25] <LaserJock> so one of the struggles is always trying to represent 3D via a whiteboard :-)
[20:26] <nubae> well.... one thing that is VERY cool with that technology
[20:26] <nubae> is being able to move 2 or 3 points at once
[20:26] <LaserJock> yeah
[20:26] <nubae> so u can rotate a 3d object in space very easily
[20:26] <nubae> zoom in, zoom out
[20:26] <LaserJock> I can see how this stuff could be cool
[20:27] <LaserJock> I just know that it would be a real struggle to get it going and to get people to use it
[20:27] <nubae> well, using it, I dont see so hard, making it work flawlessly, harder
[20:27] <LaserJock> I think most of the teachers would just turn it off and write on a whiteboard
[20:28] <LaserJock> we'd have to do quite a bit of training, which is something we're not very good at
[20:29] <LaserJock> trying to take a chemist and turn them into a teacher is hard enough, getting thing proficient with a computer is going to be tough :-)
[20:30] <nubae> yeah, guess so
[20:31] <LaserJock> it's getting the teachers who teach the teachers on board that's the trick :-)
[20:32] <nubae> right... thats what I'm doing now too
[20:32] <LaserJock> but maybe I can work on some demo's
[20:32] <LaserJock> I think this spring we'll have our linux lab maybe working
[20:32] <LaserJock> we need to upgrade ~15 machines to Intrepid first though :(
[20:33] <LaserJock> computers are such a pain ;-)
[20:33] <nubae> try clonezilla
[20:33] <nubae> it will upgrade all 15 at once in about an hour
[20:34] <LaserJock> I'm not sure if they're fresh installs or dist-upgrades
[20:34] <LaserJock> logging in to 15 computers and running update manager shouldn't take too long, it's just that it's gotta get done
[20:35] <LaserJock> then we fix AD authentication
[20:35] <LaserJock> then maybe we figure out printing
[20:35] <nubae> yeah but they need to download packages for each one
[20:35] <nubae> heh, printing should be plug and play
[20:35] <LaserJock> we have lots of bandwidth
[20:35] <LaserJock> "should"
[20:36] <LaserJock> we have huge amounts of printing problems with the windows machines
[20:36] <nubae> yeah.... I had one of these big massive industrial photocopiers that is also a printer
[20:36] <LaserJock> I'm hoping it just works in Xubuntu and it'll be a "hmm, the Windows machines never can print but the Linux ones work all the time"
[20:36] <nubae> think it was canon...
[20:37] <nubae> had to manually install the postscript drivers..
[20:37] <nubae> man was that a pain
[20:37] <LaserJock> right now in Windows you have to re-setup the printer every time the machine is rebooted
[20:37] <nubae> gosh
[20:37] <LaserJock> and it's not a trivial setup
[20:38] <LaserJock> if I could just find an LTSP server I could try that
[20:38] <LaserJock> but honestly I'm not sure if it's that great of an idea for us
[20:38] <LaserJock> as my feeling is that LTSP takes some work to setup and keep maintained
[20:39] <LaserJock> and I know when I leave there really isn't going to be much of anybody to maintain it
[20:41] <nubae> Its improved a lot... intrepid is pretty maintenance free
[22:19] <ball> If I want to install Edubuntu stand-alone, without ltsp, can I use the ordinary Xubuntu install CD instead of the alternate?
[22:20] <LaserJock> well, kinda
[22:20] <LaserJock> the Edubuntu CD is an addon to Ubuntu so it assumes ubuntu-desktop is installed
[22:21] <LaserJock> so you might have to pull dependencies off the net to install some stuff
[22:21] <LaserJock> also edubuntu-desktop depends on ubuntu-desktop so you probably don't want to install that
[22:22] <LaserJock> but say if you wanted Edubuntu without ltsp you could use the Ubuntu Desktop CD just fine
[22:22] <ball> Hmm... perhaps I should install (Gnome) Ubuntu then instead of Xubuntu
[22:22] <LaserJock> kind of depends on what you're trying to do
[22:22] <ball> Is that what you suggest?
[22:23] <ball> LaserJock: I'm preparing a laptop that's going to Haiti
[22:23] <LaserJock> ball: not a very big hard drive?
[22:23] <ball> LaserJock: I don't know yet, I haven't booted it.
[22:23] <ball> Probably not tiny though, it comes with a FireWire port
[22:23] <LaserJock> because if you have plenty of diskspace you can install both
[22:24] <LaserJock> and then the user can log into either Gnome or Xfce depending how well it performs
[22:24] <LaserJock> or you could install Kubuntu and just install selected educational apps
[22:26] <ball> brb, I have to switch seats.
[22:38] <ball> Does the Edubuntu CD differ much from edubuntu-desktop?
[22:44] <LaserJock> well, the CD has all the stuff that's in edubuntu-desktop and a little bit more
[22:44] <LaserJock> but the CD itself lets you also pick individual apps in the GUI that pops up
[22:45] <LaserJock> so either way (CD or apt-get) will get you stuff
[22:49] <ball> It's a shame I have to install Ubuntu: that means two user interfaces to support instead of one.
[22:51] <LaserJock> well, you can do xubuntu
[22:52] <LaserJock> and then apt-get the apps you want
[22:52] <ball> What do the Edubuntu CD and edubuntu-desktop offer over and above the applications?
[22:53] <LaserJock> we'll they're meant to pull things together
[22:53] <LaserJock> make it easier to install on an Ubuntu desktop
[22:54] <LaserJock> the CD lets people in low-bandwith countries share the educational apps
[22:56] <ball> That's a good idea, I should send install CDs with the machine.
[23:00] <LaserJock> but we sort of have to make some assumption on what's already installed on the user's machine
[23:00] <LaserJock> otherwise we'd have to include *everything*
[23:02]  * ball nods
[23:14] <ball> I'll try Ubuntu on the laptop, though I know it's more heavyweight than Xubuntu
[23:17] <LaserJock> it is, but it if it runs ok it's more featureful, IMO
[23:21] <ball> I'll try to convince myself that's a good thing ;-)\
[23:24] <LaserJock> well, I think for kidos it's maybe easier to use
[23:27] <ball> "more featureful" usually means less easy to use in my experience.
[23:29] <LaserJock> perhaps
[23:33] <calimer> sandbox did it!!!!
[23:33] <calimer> top 100 at moddb for mod/game of the year!!
[23:33] <calimer> out of 9k!!!
[23:36] <ball> I'll give it a try anyway.
[23:36] <ball> Thanks a lot for your help LaserJock
[23:37] <calimer> and oh yeah LaserJock cool article
[23:50] <LaserJock> calimer: thanks
[23:51] <LaserJock> calimer: and congrats!
[23:51] <calimer> thanks!!
[23:51] <calimer> now we just need votes for top 10 :D