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j1mchey charlie-tca20:02
charlie-tcaI made it, j1mc20:02
j1mclooks like it's just you and I.20:02
charlie-tcaI we holler loud, maybe NCommander will join us?20:03
j1mcwould you like to just briefly go over testing and documentation?20:03
charlie-tcaTesting alpha3 was a nightmare20:03
j1mcwhy's that?20:03
j1mchi NCommander20:03
charlie-tcaWe are left with a desktop cd from 8 versions back20:04
NCommanderENOBOT :-/20:04
charlie-tcacompared to ubuntu20:04
j1mccharlie-tca: why's that?20:04
NCommanderwait, what?20:04
charlie-tcaThey built ours on 01-14 and never rebuilt it20:04
charlie-tcaubuntu was rebuilt 8 times20:04
charlie-tcaThere is a partitioning bug we still have in it20:05
j1mcwhy was ours not rebuilt?20:05
NCommanderNo one asked20:05
charlie-tcathe decision was made because it took too long20:05
j1mci get daily email updates, and there was no note of any problem found20:05
j1mchi vinnl20:05
vinnlHey j1mc20:06
j1mcwe're just discussing testin20:06
NCommanderwe're a universe flavor, we're fairly low on the stuff to be done list :-/20:06
vinnlStarted yet? ;-)20:06
charlie-tcaMyself and davmor2 reported the bug20:06
charlie-tcaagreed, NCommander20:06
j1mcwhat can be done to resolve the problem?20:06
NCommanderGet more people on the CD building team :-)20:06
charlie-tcaAt least the alternate cd is good. The bug on desktop is easy to workaround, when you find it20:06
NCommanderWe're simply not having luck with CDs this cycle20:07
charlie-tcaI know!20:07
NCommanderAt least we get a USABLE CD20:07
NCommanderhey cody-somerville20:07
j1mcwe're discussing desktop-cd issues with the alpha-3 release20:07
j1mc< charlie-tca> We are left with a desktop cd from 8 versions back20:08
charlie-tcaI have to take time real soon to go through the bugs on jaunty. We don't seem to be getting them past new very often20:08
NCommanderWe just need to make sure the next daily is ok20:08
charlie-tcaMaybe the wording should be rebuilds back20:08
charlie-tcaBut the bugs are getting fixed! :-)20:09
NCommanderI don't usually start to panic until the betas about our CDs20:09
NCommanderalpha 4 probably going to be fairly broken since I doubt we'll finish the Xfce 4.6 transition by then (yay for the evil NEW queue)20:09
charlie-tcaAnd the testing is okay, too, until the last alpha, anyway.20:10
* NCommander notes that once 4.6 is fully updated, your work going to increase20:10
NCommanderWe're the first distro moving to 4.6.20:10
charlie-tcaAah, good. We are almost bored anyway...20:11
charlie-tcaHow soon do we get it?20:11
NCommanderAnyone in the mood for a 4.6 progress report?20:11
NCommanderDepends how long things take to go through the NEW queue20:11
charlie-tcayes, a report would be great!20:11
j1mcanyone else part of a loco team?  ubuntu-chicago is participating in the global bug jam.  we could focus on testing and triaging xubuntu installs with 4.6 betas.20:12
NCommanderj1mc, I'm a member of NY loco20:12
NCommanderWe have 4.4.3 in jaunty, and intrepid-proposed has it too20:12
j1mcthe global bug jam is the week of 2/20.20:12
j1mcweekend of 2/2020:12
charlie-tcaNo loco teams in Idaho!20:12
NCommander4.4.3 will be kicked into updates as soon as a corner an archive admin20:12
NCommanderI've started uploading 4.6 packages to universe20:12
j1mcwill 4.6 hit the jaunty repos by february?20:12
NCommanderI'm hoping by the end of the month20:12
NCommander4.5.93 already saw some uploads20:13
NCommanderlibxfce4util and gtk-engine-xfce got uploaded20:13
NCommander(thank you Xfce team for making sure your **** doesn't break out releases)20:13
NCommanderxfconf and libxfce4menu are stuck in the NEW queue20:13
NCommanderuntil those go through, I can't upload any other 4.6 packages20:13
j1mcNCommander: ok - about how long will it be before they are out of the NEW queue?20:14
NCommanderA week20:14
NCommandermaybe less if I can encourage an archive admin to look them over20:14
mr_pouitWe'll need to rm *mcs* bits btw20:14
NCommanderOnce xfconf goes through, I can upload libxfce4gui which will be the basis for the rest of the 4.6 apps20:14
mr_pouit(hi there)20:14
NCommandermr_pouit, that won't happen for awhile20:14
j1mc:)  ok.  i guess it would just be ideal if we could have a full 4.5.X available in jaunty by the global bug jam weekend.20:15
NCommanderWe still need to NBS all the 4.4 packages20:15
NCommanderOnce the 4.6 packages go, we need to do seed changes (hello broken CDs), and update xubuntu-default-settings20:15
NCommanderThere is a 4.4 -> 4.6 migration script, so it shouldn't be too difficult, just tedious.20:16
mr_pouitdependencies should be automatically pushed, so it shouldn't be so painful20:16
NCommanderThen we need to NBS out mcs20:17
NCommanderand make sure we haven't hosed our upgrade path20:17
NCommander(we're dealing with a lot of packages moving around, so upgrade testing 4.4 -> 4.6 will be a top priority20:17
NCommanderI also want to see if we get feature parity with GNOME20:19
NCommanderWe seem to only get their new features one release later20:20
NCommander(I should say ubuntu-desktop vs. GNOME)20:20
NCommanderSuch as the logout menu20:20
charlie-tcaThey have a new one in testing20:20
NCommanderEither we should port that to Xfce's API's, or simply shove xfapplet into our default settings20:20
vinnlSomething problematic when it comes to that is that some GNOME applications which we *can* use do not appear because the .desktop files show OnlyShowIn=GNOME20:20
vinnlI'll try to upgrade not too late and then keep an eye on that20:21
NCommandervinnl, if you poke me, I can update those packages if need be, or poke the updater :-)20:21
NCommanderMore news20:21
vinnlI've reported some on Launchpad20:21
mr_pouitSpeaking of the logout menu, it would be better if we don't carry a delta that adds strings...20:21
NCommanderAs some of us are aware, Ubuntu (and thus Xubuntu) has an ARM port20:21
NCommandermr_pouit, well, I'd like to make xfce4-session vanish, using the logout menu to replace it20:22
NCommanderI think we need to look strongly at making sure ARM is a supported Xubuntu architecture (I also want to see PowerPC at least return to semi-supported; aka, linked off the front page)20:22
NCommanderI've personally tested Xubuntu on ARM, its pretty sexy20:22
mr_pouitWe should try to make a non-buggued release first amha20:23
* NCommander uses the stick on mr_pouit 20:23
NCommanderSupporting ARM is relatively easy, everything already works there20:23
JPohlmannHey guys. Sorry for being late. I totally forgot about time when playing guitar.20:23
NCommanderWe just need to make sure the website makes it clear that support exists20:23
NCommanderJPohlmann, that's what happens when your on a stairway to heaven :-)20:23
* NCommander runs from the bad pun20:23
NCommanderJPohlmann, how's upstreams attitude with w.r.t. to supporting small screen devices?20:24
NCommanderi.e., are we on our own, or does upstream want it :-)?20:25
mr_pouitcody-somerville: what were you planning for sion? (included in the seeds or not?)20:25
JPohlmannNCommander: We're positive about it.20:26
NCommandercody-somerville, your an archive admin, aren't you, can't you magic the 4.6 packages through ;-)?20:26
JPohlmannIt's clearly not our main target and most of our applications are not really designed to take up as little space as possible, but why should we be against running Xfce on small screens?20:27
mr_pouitNCommander: I don't think he's an archive admin ;p20:27
j1mcmr_pouit: i had to look up "amha."  all i could find was American Miniature Horses Association, until I found "À Mon Humble Avis" (in my humble opinion).  :)20:28
mr_pouitj1mc: oops, sorry, imho ;)20:28
NCommanderJPohlmann, well, its likely going to happen, since netbooks are all the rage, having a light weight yet full featured DE is going to be a huge win20:28
j1mcnp  :)20:28
NCommanderSo its on our radar to improve netbook support for Xfce.20:28
vinnlNCommander, it's already happening a lot on Neo Freerunner devices (from OpenMoko)20:28
vinnlThat's even smaller20:28
JPohlmannNCommander: I'd say netbooks are within our main target range.20:28
JPohlmannNCommander: I'm all for it.20:28
NCommanderPeople have Xfce running on the freerunner?20:28
NCommanderO_O!, I need a freerunner now20:29
JPohlmannDunno. But we have at least two Xfce developers with netbooks ;)20:29
vinnlNCommander, yep, Debian runs on it and Xfce is the platform of choice :)20:29
NCommandervinnl, its a pity Ubuntu ARM requirements are too high for the Freerunner :-/20:30
NCommanderDid we have an agenda for this meeting, or is this one of our usual adhoc meetings?20:30
vinnlI didn't really see anything on the wiki20:30
vinnlExcept for the Brainstorm ideas that might be discussed ;-)20:30
mr_pouitI wanted to know what cody was planning (for the seeds), but he doesn't seem to be here.20:30
NCommandermr_pouit, well, he joined, but as I'm learning, just because Cody's IRC client may be somewhere doesn't mean he's actually here20:31
* charlie-tca nods20:31
NCommanderOk, more news20:31
NCommanderWe're moving to Bazaar packaging20:31
NCommanderThis has the added bonus of making syncing with Debian Xfce trival20:31
NCommander(bzr merge svn://pkg-xfce.d.o/*path to branch*)20:32
NCommanderAnd it pulls everything thats changed, even changelog entries, so no more manually mangling packages20:32
NCommanderI'd like to setup AutoPPA (cody suggested this to me), so we can make sure our nightly branches are always hapy20:33
NCommanderso every night we can have a batch of steaming hot PPA packages to test the lastest changes (and our best friend w.r.t. to testing stuff)20:34
j1mcsounds excellent, NCommander20:34
NCommanderWe also had some discussions at UDS about intergrating autoPPA with Xfce upstream so we'd have a set of packages that just represented the base Xfce system20:35
NCommanderI dunno where those discussions went, cody was talking about it20:35
NCommanderJPohlmann, BTW, care to tell us about the new sexiness of 4.6 :-)?20:36
JPohlmannNCommander: Anything specific you wanna know?20:37
NCommanderjust give us a general overview20:37
* NCommander has run 4.6, but I'm unsure of anyone else)20:37
JPohlmannHard to summarize in one sentence. 4.6 will bring a lot of changes to the Xfce platform but also a number of new features visible to the user.20:38
NCommanderWell, I felt it was faster, and fairly stable, even for an alpha20:39
JPohlmannAs for the platform: the old MCS system has been replaced with a D-Bus based settings daemon called Xfconf. We've rewritten most of the settings dialogs to use it. Another thing is that there is now a new menu library which aims to be XDG compliant.20:40
JPohlmannxfce4-session has been improved a lot.20:40
JPohlmannIt now starts applications in parallel (which speeds things up) and now uses D-Bus as well to talk to session clients. There's now a session editor as well.20:41
NCommanderVery sexy20:41
* vinnl drools20:41
JPohlmannOther than that, there is both a graphical and a console tool for accessing/modifying the settings: xfce4-settings-editor (GUI) and xfconf-query (console).20:41
JPohlmannTwo applications were rewritten from scratch: xfce4-mixer (now based on GStreamer 0.10) and xfce4-appfinder (now uses ThunarVFS to reload contents when applications are installed/removed).20:42
JPohlmannThere are more changes of course, but these are probably the most important ones.20:44
j1mcso - so far we've discussed testing and xfce 4.6 features.  anything else on those topics?20:45
NCommandernothing I can think of offhand20:45
j1mcoh, and we discussed using bzr more extensively, too.20:46
j1mccare for an update on documentation?20:46
j1mci've been working on the xubuntu docs, but xfce docs may not be included in the 4.6 release.20:47
j1mclikely 4.6.120:47
j1mcor, they would be included, but not significantly updated20:47
* NCommander makes an off the cuff remark on the state of our intrepid documentation20:47
j1mc"off the cuff"?20:48
NCommanderside comment20:48
NCommanderAlthough it may be improved by now20:48
j1mc"our" meaning xubuntu, or xfce?20:48
NCommanderj1mc, er, you do know about what happened with the Xubuntu 8.10 docs, right?20:48
j1mcthat they weren't updated20:49
NCommanderIt was more something like this20:49
NCommanderA few days before release:20:49
NCommandercody: Why are our docs still saying 8.0420:49
NCommanderMe: oh ****20:49
NCommanderBoth: *panic, bump the version number*20:49
NCommanderLets NOT have a repeat of this20:50
j1mcNCommander: i'm on top of it20:50
* NCommander hugs j1mc 20:50
NCommanderI'm still amazed we haven't gotten any bugs on it AFAIK20:50
j1mcyeah, very few20:51
NCommanderDocumentation: We write it, the users don't read it :-P20:51
* charlie-tca thinks NCommander worries too much...20:52
NCommandercharlie-tca, years and years of exposure to end users have drained away my hopes and dreams.20:52
charlie-tcaYeah, that too20:52
j1mcanything else for discussion today?20:53
j1mcany word from knome on artwork?20:54
charlie-tcaI am trying to put together something for telling what hardware testers have, but the last two I asked dropped out of testign20:55
vinnlDoes the Print Screen-key work by default in Xubuntu?20:55
charlie-tcano, vinnl20:55
charlie-tcaAnd yes, we have a bug-report on it, too20:56
vinnlWill xfce4-screenshooter be included for Jaunty?20:56
charlie-tcaXfce devel said it is up to us to try to make print-screen key work with screenshooter20:57
j1mcall, i need to run.  i'll keep my session running here, though, and will post minutes by tomorrow at the latest20:57
charlie-tcase you later, j1mc20:57
vinnlBye j1mc20:58
vinnlOK then20:58
charlie-tcaNCommander: ^^20:58
j1mc /quit21:47
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