DavieyIs there a delay with "Packages" being updated?00:41
Davieya file seems to be in my ppa repo, but not in the Packages index00:41
Davieyahh done now00:41
wgrantIt's not entirely atomic, and you caught it a minute after the update started.00:42
wgrantThe Packages files should be updated last so the archive is always consistent.00:42
maxbhttp://red-bean.com/~maxb/ppa-keys.png  <-- It could take a while, but I like this trend :-)00:52
wgrantmaxb: That's the number of keys matching 'Launchpad PPA for .*' or so?00:53
wgrantThe signing actually works, too. It's nice being able to use PPAs now.01:01
=== jauntytester_ is now known as jauntytester
troglonwhats the etiquette for changing bug status? what is the difference between new and confirmed?02:46
thumpernew often means that no one has looked at it02:48
thumperconfirmed means normally that someone has confirmed it is a bug and not pebkac02:48
thumpertroglon: etiquette often changes from project to project02:49
troglonwho should/can officially "confirm" it? in otherwords, a bug has been confirmed by multiple replies and can be seen in other subprojects, but for some reason has not had its status changed...02:50
troglonthumper: yeah, ok02:50
thumperI'm not sure on the rules for who can confirm02:51
thumpertry it02:51
thumperand hope that you don't need your flameproof pants02:51
troglonwill the "Comment on this change" show up as a reply? Or just in the logs?02:51
thumperit'll show up as a comment02:51
troglonheh so what is the etiquette for changing the title, making it clearer/more like similar bugs?02:53
troglon(they really should have a faq on this)02:53
troglonim in the ubunu project, btw02:54
thumperthey might have a faq on this02:54
thumperI'm not sure02:54
thumperI think the general etiquette is "If it makes it clearer, it is a good thing"02:54
trogloni have check and checked and havnt seen a peep on this kinda stuff02:54
trogloni guess i just make a educated decision and wait and see if its acceptable... ;)02:55
thumpergood luck02:56
troglonthanks again02:57
ZehRiqueUrsinha: ping? (sorry for boring you at this time, but I need help)04:53
wgrantZehRique: If she's not around, you might consider asking your question more generally.04:54
ZehRiquewgrant: thanks for contacting me. I need to know if there is a wiki admin online now. I lost the access to my ubuntu wiki account without reason.04:57
wgrantI've no idea about that stuff, sorry.04:57
ZehRiquewgrant: gee... OK, wgrant. Thanks anyway! :)04:58
spmZehRique: I believe the ubuntu wiki now use launchpad's openid. So - can you login to your LP acount?05:01
ZehRiquespm: no. I have an account at main Ubuntu's wiki, but the 'problematic' account is hosted at wiki.ubuntu-br.org, which dont' make use of OpenID. :(05:02
spmZehRique: Ah. hence why you ping Ursinha. Sorry - can't help either :-)05:03
wgrantAh, I see, that makes more sense.05:04
ZehRiquespm: Yeah! :)05:04
ZehRiquespm: the wiki software is telling me that my account belongs to any other person now.05:04
spmThat would be... vexing.05:04
ZehRiquespm,  wgrant: I need my login because I need updating some pages there and create a new one just now! Don't know what to do...05:05
JanCZehRique: maybe contact ubuntu-br people?05:09
ZehRiqueJanC: I just made it. But until now I didn't get an answer. :(05:11
ZehRique3 to 4 days05:11
dragojevicHi - I am Janet Dragojevic from PCF - Miro.08:38
dragojevicWe have made a huge amount of changes to our ui much of which requires translations to be updated.  Is there any way I could get an email list - or a group of names of people who had previously done Miro translations and ask if they could help us get the translations updated for the 2.0 release?08:39
dragojevicIf you would like - you can contact me directly - jed @ pculture.org08:39
dragojevicdanilos:  maybe that above question was directed at you?  Or maybe you can refer me to someone I can contact about this.08:40
al-maisanhello dragojevic, danilos is still AFK at the moment .. please consider adding a question ( https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion) and contacting him that way.09:11
dragojevical-maisan: thanks for the info.  I can be around all day if too, if there is likely to be him or someone else in later.  But I'll try that link.09:24
al-maisandragojevic: he should be available in an hour or so .. putting in the question just makes sure that it will be dealt with properly.09:25
=== mrevell-afk is now known as mrevell
dragojevicok thanks.09:33
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
adiroibanhi. one small questions Language packs deltas are generated as delta of the base pack or basa pack + previous deltas? https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+language-packs11:03
mrevelldanilos: Are you able to help adiroiban? ^^^^^^^^^^11:20
adiroibanmrevell: thank! I got an answer on #ubuntu-translators11:22
adiroibandelta of the base pack11:22
adiroibanfrom mirv11:23
ahasenackguys, what does "fixed in RF 7588" mean? What's an RF? When will the fix "be out"?12:45
beunoahasenack, RocketFuel12:45
beunowhich trunk for us12:45
ahasenackbeuno: so it's live in the edge site?12:45
beunoahasenack, you can see which version edge is running on the bottom of the pages12:46
beunodepending on when that was committed, it may be rolled out next week due to database freeze12:46
ahasenackok, so it's in edge already (edge says 7599)12:46
ahasenackdo you know when that fix will be in production?12:48
beunoahasenack, I think the next rollout to production is in a little under 2 weeks12:49
=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch
=== mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell
=== kiko-afk is now known as kiko
=== panattan_ is now known as Panattan
rippsDoes anybody know when we're suppose to get our signed archive keys?14:32
kikoripps, do you have any entropy free?14:34
james_wkiko: asdfjasdfjasdfwerands <- there's a bit for you, feed that in14:40
bigjoolswe need someone to waggle a mouse about for 24 hours14:40
Nafallobigjools: count me out. I'm in the wrong DC for that ;-)14:40
maxbI started graphing it: http://www.red-bean.com/~maxb/ppa-keys.png14:41
bigjoolsNafallo: I bet the PPA users would pay you ;)14:41
maxbUnfortunately rrdtool doesn't seem to have a linear regression mode, but crude eyeballing suggests "a few days"14:42
rippsOnly a hundred keys a day? How many ppa's are there?14:43
maxbThe top of the graph is where it is for a reason :-)14:43
bigjoolsheh :)14:43
rippsare they being generated in some kind of order? alphabetic? date created?14:44
maxbBased on the active PPAs count shown at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas14:44
* Nafallo wonders what an "active" PPA is :-)14:45
bigjoolsone with uploaded packages14:46
=== salgado is now known as salgado-lunch
Nafalloso we have 4800 empty PPAs...14:47
bigjoolsyes, we have PPAs with nothing in them.  Go figure.14:47
rippsOkay, this might sound kinda noobish, but how do we import the keys into apt once their generated14:55
kikobigjools, might be worth doing a cleanup script at some point14:58
matsubararipps, apt-key add <filename>14:58
rippsmatsubara: can filename be substituted for a url?14:59
kikoripps, no, so you need to download with gpg14:59
kikomatsubara, sudo right?14:59
maxbwget -O- url | apt-key add -15:00
kikobigjools, how is the generation coming along?15:00
bigjoolskiko: AFAIK, 3 days to go15:00
matsubararipps, what maxb said should work15:00
rippsHmm... I keep getting "gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found"15:03
rippsEven though I can see the gpg key on the page15:03
maxbripps: What exactly are you downloading?15:03
rippsIt's for fta's ppa15:04
maxbhmm. You may need to copy/paste out the key block alone, removing the html wrapping15:05
rippsMan, that's lame15:06
maxb| egrep -v '^<' | apt-key add -15:06
maxbI imagine the more pgp-aware people will start creating *-keyring packages in their PPA, like the official dist has15:07
matsubararipps, try: gpg --recv <key-id> && gpg --export -a <key-id> | sudo apt-key add -15:10
rippsmatsubara: It says I need to specify a keyserver15:12
matsubara--keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com15:12
rippsmatsubara: Awesome, that worked. I am so making a script for this.15:14
=== kiko is now known as kiko-fud
matsubararipps, cool. glad I could help15:19
* ripps is now checking his favorite ppa's to see if they have keys yet15:20
maxbripps: even once they have keys, they don't actually get signed until the owner uploads a new package....15:21
maxbYou might as well just wait and add keys the next time you are prompted about unauthenticated packages15:22
rippsI've got nothing else to do right now, so I'm wasting time.15:22
rippsDo they literally have someone creating entropy for the key generation?15:27
maxbThat sounds rather implausible :-)15:28
rippsThen where do they get entropy from?15:29
=== rockstar changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net/ | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Help contact: rockstar | launchpad-users@lists.launchpad.net
* ripps pictures a team of people swiveling mice15:30
rockstarripps, entropy can be generated from all sorts of places, including network traffic.15:30
bigjoolsit's doing it very slowly for now15:30
bigjoolsrockstar: apparently not network traffic15:30
rockstarbigjools, the kernel supports it.  I was reading about it the other day.15:30
bigjoolsit would be a bad thing to do, network traffic can be manipulated15:31
rockstarI was thinking about generating entropy using a Wii Balance Board.15:31
bigjoolsthe way I play, that would indeed be random15:31
rockstarbigjools, many methods of generating entropy can be manipulated.15:31
rippsI want to find some way to create entropy by measure something from my armpits. galvonic response maybe15:32
bigjoolsto varying degrees15:32
rockstarAlthough the best solution might be `rm /dev/random; ln -s /dev/urandom /dev/random`15:32
rippsHow do we make our own *-keyring packages?15:40
rockstarripps, I think that question might be better answered in channel about packaging.15:42
=== kiko-fud is now known as kiko-phone
cody-somervillerockstar, ^^16:27
rockstarOkay, so I see three branches here in your project.16:27
=== salgado-lunch is now known as salgado
rockstarEach of them is a series branch, and owned by a team (which is generally a good practice).16:27
rockstarcody-somerville, tell me about your workflow.16:28
cody-somervillerockstar, Well, we mostly commit to -stable as we fix bugs16:29
cody-somerville-legacy is old stuff and we maintain it as needed16:29
cody-somervilleI have a branch on my computer and I commit to it when I make a change and then attempt to push16:29
cody-somervilleI merge if need be and then commit and then push16:29
rockstarSo your developers check out the branch, hack on it, and commit a single revision at a time, directly back to that branch?16:30
cody-somervilleNo, we branch16:30
rockstarEr, that's what I meant.  Check out meaning "check it out dude!"  :)16:30
rockstarOkay, what I would suggest is that when you hack on a branch, you do one of two things.  Either make a checkout on the branch, or create separate branches, hack on them, and merge those branches into your mainline when you're done with the feature.16:33
rockstarcody-somerville, I don't particularly use heavyweight checkouts.  I think the latter is better.  You WANT the D part of a DVCS16:35
cody-somervillerockstar, Is there any option on the branch to help prevent people from accidentally removing revisions via merges?16:36
rockstarcody-somerville, not sure.  In fact, I think there's a bzr bug there.16:37
rockstarcody-somerville, There should at least be a warning that it's going to remove revisions.16:38
kiko-phoneremove revisions?16:41
kiko-phoneit shouldn't unless you --overwrite16:42
rockstarkiko-phone, yea, I suspect there's a path they are following which is removing the revisions, and so there's an issue there.16:45
cody-somervillekiko-phone, if you merge it'll allow you16:46
rockstarcody-somerville, how are you merging?16:47
cody-somervillerockstar, bzr merge16:47
rockstarcody-somerville, so it's "bzr push, oops, out of date.  bzr merge, bzr commit, bzr push." ?16:49
* rockstar hms16:50
rockstarcody-somerville, I'd suggest creating personal branches, and merging those personal branches into the main branch.16:54
cody-somervilleso we should branch twice?16:54
rockstarcody-somerville, well, you maintain a mirror of the main branch.  Branch from that (so you can branch when you're on a plane), hacka hacka, and then merge back into trunk (after you're sure it's updated)16:55
cody-somervilleHow odd16:56
* andrea-bs uses rockstar's proposed workflow and thinks it's not just very useful, but also helps keeping the code clean16:58
rockstarcody-somerville, well, it sounds like you want to make a DVCS a PVCS.  In that case, use checkouts.16:59
rockstarcody-somerville, the projects I work on happen at a higher velocity than it sounds like yours do, and so my originally suggested workflow is the ONLY workflow.17:00
* LarstiQ didn't check closely17:04
LarstiQbut it looks like cody-somerville is talking about revision reordering17:04
LarstiQwhere the _revnos_ change, but no revision get lost17:04
* cody-somerville nod nods.17:04
LarstiQcody-somerville: in which case, you could use the append_history_only setting to disallow that17:05
cody-somervilleHow do I do that?17:05
LarstiQcody-somerville: which will force you to work in the way rockstar recommend, _or_ by using checkouts17:05
cody-somervilleand will that setting get pushed to launchpad?17:05
rockstarcody-somerville, no.17:06
rockstarSo everyone on your team would have to do that.17:06
rockstarLarstiQ, ah, I was swapping revno and revid in my head.17:06
rockstarcody-somerville, your current workflow is not ideal.17:08
rockstarcody-somerville, also make note that I'm doing a UbuntuDeveloperWeek session on using bzr and lp17:11
cody-somervilleI'll be there17:11
=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-afk
=== Ganja is now known as Goundy
fta[16:04] <ripps> It's for fta's ppa <=== hm, nice, my ppa is now signed; thanks guys!19:00
rockstarfta, :)19:01
=== matsubara_ is now known as matsubara
=== matsubara is now known as matsubara-afk
DTeeI am wondering if someone can help me20:32
=== spm_ is now known as spm
rockstarDTee, what can I help you with?20:53
DTeeMay I PM you rockstar?20:55
rockstarDTee, well, yes, but if it's something that might help someone else, then it's best to keep it in channel.20:56
DTeeNot paticularly20:56
DTeeits relating to a project for my Dissertation20:56
DTeenothing technical20:56
=== salgado is now known as salgado-afk
=== paolettopn_ is now known as paolettopn
=== kiko-phone is now known as kiko-afk
=== _neversfelde is now known as neversfelde
=== _neversfelde is now known as neversfelde
spitfire_I've setup this PPA: https://edge.launchpad.net/~mieszkoslusarczyk/+archive/ppa/22:44
spitfire_and synaptic can't get packages index.22:44
spitfire_Anyone does know why this might happen?22:44
rockstarspitfire_, have you updated your package list?22:46
spitfire_and it tells itcouldn't download some index files.22:47
spitfire_But as you can see, everythings there.22:47
spitfire_W: Nie udało się pobrać http://ppa.launchpad.net/mieszkoslusarczyk/ppa/ubuntu/dists/jaunty/main/source/Sources  404 Not Found22:48
bigjoolsspitfire_: use http://ppa.launchpad.net/mieszkoslusarczyk/ubuntu/ for now22:48
spitfire_W: Nie udało się pobrać http://ppa.launchpad.net/mieszkoslusarczyk/ppa/ubuntu/dists/jaunty/main/binary-amd64/Packages  404 Not Found22:48
bigjoolsit's because you're using edge and we're changing the URLs22:49
spitfire_I added entry suggested on my ppa's page22:49
bigjoolsspitfire_: use the one I just said22:49
spitfire_there was additional /ppa22:50
bigjoolsyep - it's in advance of us doing multiple PPAs per user22:51
spitfire_Is it possible22:51
bigjoolsin the future!22:51
spitfire_I thought only through another team.22:51
bigjoolswe need to fix the URLs first22:51
spitfire_bigjools: do you know anything about gpg keys that launchpad is adding to ppa's?22:51
bigjoolsyes, what do you need to know?22:51
spitfire_Is it done automatically?22:51
spitfire_Does it use the key I supplied?22:52
bigjoolsno, Launchpad generates one22:52
spitfire_Or is it generated in some way?22:52
spitfire_can I change it to mine afterwards?22:52
bigjoolsit puts it on keyservers, so you can sign it with your own if you want22:52
bigjoolsno you can't change it22:52
spitfire_bigjools: and one stupid question: how do I sign it when it's there?22:53
bigjoolsspitfire_: import the key from keyserver.ubuntu.com22:53
bigjoolsand use your favourite gpg app22:54
spitfire_so i sign the key and?22:54
bigjoolsupload your key to the keyserver22:54
spitfire_I know only how to get it22:54
bigjoolsthen you get a web of trust22:54
bigjoolsanyone who trusts your key will trust the one LP generated for you22:54
spitfire_It's great that it's possible now.22:55
spitfire_I thought they'll stay unauthenticated forever.22:55
=== _neversfelde is now known as neversfelde
maxbFun with rrdtool: http://red-bean.com/~maxb/ppa-keys.png23:05
mwhudsonmaxb: :)23:12
mwhudsonfrom which you can probably deduce something about the rng we're using ...23:12
=== _neversfelde is now known as neversfelde
* wgrant points out that anybody recommending signing PPA keys must impress upon the owners that they verify the downloaded key's fingerprint against the one they can see on Launchpad via HTTPS.23:22

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