[00:41] <Daviey> Is there a delay with "Packages" being updated?
[00:41] <Daviey> a file seems to be in my ppa repo, but not in the Packages index
[00:41] <Daviey> :S
[00:41] <Daviey> ahh done now
[00:42] <wgrant> It's not entirely atomic, and you caught it a minute after the update started.
[00:42] <Daviey> ta
[00:42] <wgrant> The Packages files should be updated last so the archive is always consistent.
[00:52] <maxb> http://red-bean.com/~maxb/ppa-keys.png  <-- It could take a while, but I like this trend :-)
[00:53] <wgrant> maxb: That's the number of keys matching 'Launchpad PPA for .*' or so?
[00:56] <maxb> yes
[01:01] <wgrant> The signing actually works, too. It's nice being able to use PPAs now.
[02:46] <troglon> whats the etiquette for changing bug status? what is the difference between new and confirmed?
[02:48] <thumper> new often means that no one has looked at it
[02:48] <thumper> confirmed means normally that someone has confirmed it is a bug and not pebkac
[02:49] <thumper> troglon: etiquette often changes from project to project
[02:50] <troglon> who should/can officially "confirm" it? in otherwords, a bug has been confirmed by multiple replies and can be seen in other subprojects, but for some reason has not had its status changed...
[02:50] <troglon> thumper: yeah, ok
[02:51] <thumper> I'm not sure on the rules for who can confirm
[02:51] <thumper> try it
[02:51] <thumper> and hope that you don't need your flameproof pants
[02:51] <troglon> will the "Comment on this change" show up as a reply? Or just in the logs?
[02:51] <thumper> it'll show up as a comment
[02:51] <troglon> thanks
[02:53] <troglon> heh so what is the etiquette for changing the title, making it clearer/more like similar bugs?
[02:53] <troglon> (they really should have a faq on this)
[02:54] <troglon> im in the ubunu project, btw
[02:54] <thumper> they might have a faq on this
[02:54] <thumper> I'm not sure
[02:54] <thumper> I think the general etiquette is "If it makes it clearer, it is a good thing"
[02:54] <troglon> i have check and checked and havnt seen a peep on this kinda stuff
[02:55] <troglon> i guess i just make a educated decision and wait and see if its acceptable... ;)
[02:56] <thumper> good luck
[02:57] <troglon> thanks again
[04:53] <ZehRique> Ursinha: ping? (sorry for boring you at this time, but I need help)
[04:54] <wgrant> ZehRique: If she's not around, you might consider asking your question more generally.
[04:57] <ZehRique> wgrant: thanks for contacting me. I need to know if there is a wiki admin online now. I lost the access to my ubuntu wiki account without reason.
[04:57] <wgrant> I've no idea about that stuff, sorry.
[04:58] <ZehRique> wgrant: gee... OK, wgrant. Thanks anyway! :)
[05:01] <spm> ZehRique: I believe the ubuntu wiki now use launchpad's openid. So - can you login to your LP acount?
[05:02] <ZehRique> spm: no. I have an account at main Ubuntu's wiki, but the 'problematic' account is hosted at wiki.ubuntu-br.org, which dont' make use of OpenID. :(
[05:03] <spm> ZehRique: Ah. hence why you ping Ursinha. Sorry - can't help either :-)
[05:04] <wgrant> Ah, I see, that makes more sense.
[05:04] <ZehRique> spm: Yeah! :)
[05:04] <ZehRique> spm: the wiki software is telling me that my account belongs to any other person now.
[05:04] <spm> That would be... vexing.
[05:05] <ZehRique> spm,  wgrant: I need my login because I need updating some pages there and create a new one just now! Don't know what to do...
[05:09] <JanC> ZehRique: maybe contact ubuntu-br people?
[05:11] <ZehRique> JanC: I just made it. But until now I didn't get an answer. :(
[05:11] <ZehRique> 3 to 4 days
[08:38] <dragojevic> Hi - I am Janet Dragojevic from PCF - Miro.
[08:39] <dragojevic> We have made a huge amount of changes to our ui much of which requires translations to be updated.  Is there any way I could get an email list - or a group of names of people who had previously done Miro translations and ask if they could help us get the translations updated for the 2.0 release?
[08:39] <dragojevic> If you would like - you can contact me directly - jed @ pculture.org
[08:40] <dragojevic> danilos:  maybe that above question was directed at you?  Or maybe you can refer me to someone I can contact about this.
[09:11] <al-maisan> hello dragojevic, danilos is still AFK at the moment .. please consider adding a question ( https://launchpad.net/launchpad/+addquestion) and contacting him that way.
[09:24] <dragojevic> al-maisan: thanks for the info.  I can be around all day if too, if there is likely to be him or someone else in later.  But I'll try that link.
[09:25] <al-maisan> dragojevic: he should be available in an hour or so .. putting in the question just makes sure that it will be dealt with properly.
[09:33] <dragojevic> ok thanks.
[11:03] <adiroiban> hi. one small questions Language packs deltas are generated as delta of the base pack or basa pack + previous deltas? https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+language-packs
[11:20] <mrevell> danilos: Are you able to help adiroiban? ^^^^^^^^^^
[11:22] <adiroiban> mrevell: thank! I got an answer on #ubuntu-translators
[11:22] <adiroiban> ﻿delta of the base pack
[11:22] <mrevell> cool
[11:23] <adiroiban> from mirv
[12:45] <ahasenack> guys, what does "fixed in RF 7588" mean? What's an RF? When will the fix "be out"?
[12:45] <beuno> ahasenack, RocketFuel
[12:45] <beuno> which trunk for us
[12:45] <ahasenack> beuno: so it's live in the edge site?
[12:46] <beuno> ahasenack, you can see which version edge is running on the bottom of the pages
[12:46] <beuno> depending on when that was committed, it may be rolled out next week due to database freeze
[12:46] <ahasenack> ok, so it's in edge already (edge says 7599)
[12:47] <beuno> yeap
[12:48] <ahasenack> do you know when that fix will be in production?
[12:48] <ahasenack> (#317241)
[12:49] <beuno> ahasenack, I think the next rollout to production is in a little under 2 weeks
[14:32] <ripps> Does anybody know when we're suppose to get our signed archive keys?
[14:34] <kiko> ripps, do you have any entropy free?
[14:40] <james_w> kiko: asdfjasdfjasdfwerands <- there's a bit for you, feed that in
[14:40] <bigjools> we need someone to waggle a mouse about for 24 hours
[14:40] <Nafallo> bigjools: count me out. I'm in the wrong DC for that ;-)
[14:41] <maxb> I started graphing it: http://www.red-bean.com/~maxb/ppa-keys.png
[14:41] <bigjools> Nafallo: I bet the PPA users would pay you ;)
[14:41] <Nafallo> hehe
[14:42] <maxb> Unfortunately rrdtool doesn't seem to have a linear regression mode, but crude eyeballing suggests "a few days"
[14:43] <ripps> Only a hundred keys a day? How many ppa's are there?
[14:43] <maxb> The top of the graph is where it is for a reason :-)
[14:43] <bigjools> heh :)
[14:44] <ripps> are they being generated in some kind of order? alphabetic? date created?
[14:44] <maxb> Based on the active PPAs count shown at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
[14:45]  * Nafallo wonders what an "active" PPA is :-)
[14:46] <bigjools> one with uploaded packages
[14:47] <Nafallo> lol
[14:47] <Nafallo> nice
[14:47] <Nafallo> so we have 4800 empty PPAs...
[14:47] <bigjools> yes, we have PPAs with nothing in them.  Go figure.
[14:47] <Nafallo> :-)
[14:55] <ripps> Okay, this might sound kinda noobish, but how do we import the keys into apt once their generated
[14:58] <kiko> bigjools, might be worth doing a cleanup script at some point
[14:58] <matsubara> ripps, apt-key add <filename>
[14:59] <ripps> matsubara: can filename be substituted for a url?
[14:59] <kiko> ripps, no, so you need to download with gpg
[14:59] <kiko> matsubara, sudo right?
[15:00] <maxb> wget -O- url | apt-key add -
[15:00] <kiko> bigjools, how is the generation coming along?
[15:00] <bigjools> kiko: AFAIK, 3 days to go
[15:00] <matsubara> ripps, what maxb said should work
[15:03] <ripps> Hmm... I keep getting "gpg: no valid OpenPGP data found"
[15:03] <ripps> Even though I can see the gpg key on the page
[15:03] <maxb> ripps: What exactly are you downloading?
[15:04] <ripps> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x632D16BB0C713DA6
[15:04] <ripps> It's for fta's ppa
[15:05] <maxb> hmm. You may need to copy/paste out the key block alone, removing the html wrapping
[15:06] <ripps> Man, that's lame
[15:06] <maxb> | egrep -v '^<' | apt-key add -
[15:07] <maxb> I imagine the more pgp-aware people will start creating *-keyring packages in their PPA, like the official dist has
[15:10] <matsubara> ripps, try: gpg --recv <key-id> && gpg --export -a <key-id> | sudo apt-key add -
[15:12] <ripps> matsubara: It says I need to specify a keyserver
[15:12] <matsubara> --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com
[15:14] <ripps> matsubara: Awesome, that worked. I am so making a script for this.
[15:19] <matsubara> ripps, cool. glad I could help
[15:20]  * ripps is now checking his favorite ppa's to see if they have keys yet
[15:21] <maxb> ripps: even once they have keys, they don't actually get signed until the owner uploads a new package....
[15:22] <maxb> You might as well just wait and add keys the next time you are prompted about unauthenticated packages
[15:22] <ripps> I've got nothing else to do right now, so I'm wasting time.
[15:27] <ripps> Do they literally have someone creating entropy for the key generation?
[15:28] <maxb> That sounds rather implausible :-)
[15:29] <ripps> Then where do they get entropy from?
[15:30]  * ripps pictures a team of people swiveling mice
[15:30] <rockstar> ripps, entropy can be generated from all sorts of places, including network traffic.
[15:30] <bigjools> it's doing it very slowly for now
[15:30] <bigjools> rockstar: apparently not network traffic
[15:30] <rockstar> bigjools, the kernel supports it.  I was reading about it the other day.
[15:31] <bigjools> it would be a bad thing to do, network traffic can be manipulated
[15:31] <rockstar> I was thinking about generating entropy using a Wii Balance Board.
[15:31] <bigjools> lol
[15:31] <bigjools> the way I play, that would indeed be random
[15:31] <rockstar> bigjools, many methods of generating entropy can be manipulated.
[15:32] <ripps> I want to find some way to create entropy by measure something from my armpits. galvonic response maybe
[15:32] <bigjools> to varying degrees
[15:32] <rockstar> Although the best solution might be `rm /dev/random; ln -s /dev/urandom /dev/random`
[15:32] <rockstar> :)
[15:40] <ripps> How do we make our own *-keyring packages?
[15:42] <rockstar> ripps, I think that question might be better answered in channel about packaging.
[16:27] <cody-somerville> rockstar, ^^
[16:27] <rockstar> Okay, so I see three branches here in your project.
[16:27] <rockstar> Each of them is a series branch, and owned by a team (which is generally a good practice).
[16:28] <rockstar> cody-somerville, tell me about your workflow.
[16:29] <cody-somerville> rockstar, Well, we mostly commit to -stable as we fix bugs
[16:29] <cody-somerville> -legacy is old stuff and we maintain it as needed
[16:29] <cody-somerville> I have a branch on my computer and I commit to it when I make a change and then attempt to push
[16:29] <cody-somerville> I merge if need be and then commit and then push
[16:30] <rockstar> So your developers check out the branch, hack on it, and commit a single revision at a time, directly back to that branch?
[16:30] <cody-somerville> No, we branch
[16:30] <rockstar> Er, that's what I meant.  Check out meaning "check it out dude!"  :)
[16:30] <rockstar> (Examine)
[16:33] <rockstar> Okay, what I would suggest is that when you hack on a branch, you do one of two things.  Either make a checkout on the branch, or create separate branches, hack on them, and merge those branches into your mainline when you're done with the feature.
[16:35] <rockstar> cody-somerville, I don't particularly use heavyweight checkouts.  I think the latter is better.  You WANT the D part of a DVCS
[16:36] <cody-somerville> rockstar, Is there any option on the branch to help prevent people from accidentally removing revisions via merges?
[16:37] <rockstar> cody-somerville, not sure.  In fact, I think there's a bzr bug there.
[16:38] <rockstar> cody-somerville, There should at least be a warning that it's going to remove revisions.
[16:41] <kiko-phone> remove revisions?
[16:42] <kiko-phone> it shouldn't unless you --overwrite
[16:45] <rockstar> kiko-phone, yea, I suspect there's a path they are following which is removing the revisions, and so there's an issue there.
[16:46] <cody-somerville> kiko-phone, if you merge it'll allow you
[16:47] <rockstar> cody-somerville, how are you merging?
[16:47] <cody-somerville> rockstar, bzr merge
[16:49] <rockstar> cody-somerville, so it's "bzr push, oops, out of date.  bzr merge, bzr commit, bzr push." ?
[16:49] <cody-somerville> yup
[16:50]  * rockstar hms
[16:54] <rockstar> cody-somerville, I'd suggest creating personal branches, and merging those personal branches into the main branch.
[16:54] <cody-somerville> so we should branch twice?
[16:55] <rockstar> cody-somerville, well, you maintain a mirror of the main branch.  Branch from that (so you can branch when you're on a plane), hacka hacka, and then merge back into trunk (after you're sure it's updated)
[16:56] <cody-somerville> How odd
[16:58]  * andrea-bs uses rockstar's proposed workflow and thinks it's not just very useful, but also helps keeping the code clean
[16:59] <rockstar> cody-somerville, well, it sounds like you want to make a DVCS a PVCS.  In that case, use checkouts.
[17:00] <rockstar> cody-somerville, the projects I work on happen at a higher velocity than it sounds like yours do, and so my originally suggested workflow is the ONLY workflow.
[17:04]  * LarstiQ didn't check closely
[17:04] <LarstiQ> but it looks like cody-somerville is talking about revision reordering
[17:04] <LarstiQ> where the _revnos_ change, but no revision get lost
[17:04]  * cody-somerville nod nods.
[17:05] <LarstiQ> cody-somerville: in which case, you could use the append_history_only setting to disallow that
[17:05] <cody-somerville> How do I do that?
[17:05] <LarstiQ> cody-somerville: which will force you to work in the way rockstar recommend, _or_ by using checkouts
[17:05] <cody-somerville> and will that setting get pushed to launchpad?
[17:06] <rockstar> cody-somerville, no.
[17:06] <rockstar> So everyone on your team would have to do that.
[17:06] <rockstar> LarstiQ, ah, I was swapping revno and revid in my head.
[17:07] <cody-somerville> :/
[17:08] <rockstar> cody-somerville, your current workflow is not ideal.
[17:11] <rockstar> cody-somerville, also make note that I'm doing a UbuntuDeveloperWeek session on using bzr and lp
[17:11] <cody-somerville> neat
[17:11] <cody-somerville> I'll be there
[19:00] <fta> [16:04] <ripps> It's for fta's ppa <[19:01] <rockstar> fta, :)
[20:32] <DTee> Hi
[20:32] <DTee> I am wondering if someone can help me
[20:53] <rockstar> DTee, what can I help you with?
[20:55] <DTee> May I PM you rockstar?
[20:56] <rockstar> DTee, well, yes, but if it's something that might help someone else, then it's best to keep it in channel.
[20:56] <DTee> Not paticularly
[20:56] <DTee> its relating to a project for my Dissertation
[20:56] <DTee> nothing technical
[22:44] <spitfire_> hey.
[22:44] <spitfire_> I've setup this PPA: https://edge.launchpad.net/~mieszkoslusarczyk/+archive/ppa/
[22:44] <spitfire_> and synaptic can't get packages index.
[22:44] <spitfire_> Anyone does know why this might happen?
[22:46] <rockstar> spitfire_, have you updated your package list?
[22:46] <spitfire_> Yes.
[22:47] <spitfire_> and it tells itcouldn't download some index files.
[22:47] <spitfire_> But as you can see, everythings there.
[22:48] <spitfire_> W: Nie udało się pobrać http://ppa.launchpad.net/mieszkoslusarczyk/ppa/ubuntu/dists/jaunty/main/source/Sources  404 Not Found
[22:48] <bigjools> spitfire_: use http://ppa.launchpad.net/mieszkoslusarczyk/ubuntu/ for now
[22:48] <spitfire_> and:
[22:48] <spitfire_> W: Nie udało się pobrać http://ppa.launchpad.net/mieszkoslusarczyk/ppa/ubuntu/dists/jaunty/main/binary-amd64/Packages  404 Not Found
[22:48] <spitfire_> bigjools:
[22:48] <spitfire_> how?
[22:49] <bigjools> it's because you're using edge and we're changing the URLs
[22:49] <spitfire_> I added entry suggested on my ppa's page
[22:49] <spitfire_> oh
[22:49] <bigjools> spitfire_: use the one I just said
[22:50] <spitfire_> oh
[22:50] <spitfire_> there was additional /ppa
[22:50] <spitfire_> :)
[22:51] <bigjools> yep - it's in advance of us doing multiple PPAs per user
[22:51] <spitfire_> mutiple?
[22:51] <spitfire_> Is it possible
[22:51] <bigjools> in the future!
[22:51] <spitfire_> I thought only through another team.
[22:51] <spitfire_> ok
[22:51] <bigjools> we need to fix the URLs first
[22:51] <spitfire_> bigjools: do you know anything about gpg keys that launchpad is adding to ppa's?
[22:51] <bigjools> yes, what do you need to know?
[22:51] <spitfire_> Is it done automatically?
[22:52] <bigjools> yes
[22:52] <spitfire_> Does it use the key I supplied?
[22:52] <bigjools> no, Launchpad generates one
[22:52] <spitfire_> Or is it generated in some way?
[22:52] <spitfire_> oh
[22:52] <spitfire_> can I change it to mine afterwards?
[22:52] <bigjools> it puts it on keyservers, so you can sign it with your own if you want
[22:52] <bigjools> no you can't change it
[22:52] <spitfire_> ok
[22:53] <spitfire_> bigjools: and one stupid question: how do I sign it when it's there?
[22:53] <bigjools> spitfire_: import the key from keyserver.ubuntu.com
[22:54] <spitfire_> ok
[22:54] <bigjools> and use your favourite gpg app
[22:54] <spitfire_> and?
[22:54] <spitfire_> so i sign the key and?
[22:54] <bigjools> upload your key to the keyserver
[22:54] <spitfire_> I know only how to get it
[22:54] <spitfire_> ok.
[22:54] <bigjools> then you get a web of trust
[22:54] <bigjools> anyone who trusts your key will trust the one LP generated for you
[22:55] <spitfire_> ;)
[22:55] <spitfire_> It's great that it's possible now.
[22:55] <spitfire_> I thought they'll stay unauthenticated forever.
[23:05] <maxb> Fun with rrdtool: http://red-bean.com/~maxb/ppa-keys.png
[23:12] <mwhudson> maxb: :)
[23:12] <mwhudson> from which you can probably deduce something about the rng we're using ...
[23:22]  * wgrant points out that anybody recommending signing PPA keys must impress upon the owners that they verify the downloaded key's fingerprint against the one they can see on Launchpad via HTTPS.