* pitti hugs seb128, bonjour!08:42
* seb128 hugs pitti08:42
seb128hello, how was your skiing week? ;-)08:43
seb128lut crevette08:43
crevettesalut seb12808:43
crevettedoes anyone know why I can't post apport report to the launchpad server, I receive a time-out error.08:44
crevettethe server is down ?08:44
seb128crevette: dunno about that08:45
pittiseb128: very nice, and I could still do it even after 8 years :)08:45
seb128good ;-)08:45
pittiseb128: I borrowed some new carving skis, they're really awesome08:45
didrockspitti: lucky man :)08:50
didrockshi everybody!08:50
seb128lut didrocks08:51
didrocksseb128: I need some help on gnome-games update. They drop libgnome* dependency, but when adding the lpi, it still depends on it. So, I had a first error : http://paste.ubuntu.com/106848/08:53
didrockswell, I added again libgnomeui dependency, regenerate configure and add #include <libgnomeui/gnome-app-helper.h>08:54
seb128didrocks: no it doesn't?08:54
didrocksreally ?08:54
didrocksbecause it builds without the lpi patch without libgnomeui08:54
didrocksand adding the lpi patch, I have the first error08:54
seb128didrocks: it probably means that the patch needs to be updated to the new code08:55
didrocksok, is there a wiki page to handle the transition ?08:55
seb128didrocks: lpi has several apis, you probably need to use the gtkuimanager one now08:55
seb128didrocks: launchpad-integration has code example, or look to the other changes08:55
didrocksok, it has been ported, great :)08:55
didrocksok, I will seek for it08:55
seb128didrocks: look to the gnome-games lpi changes, most of the games are already using the ui manager api there08:56
didrocksseb128: hum? I don't understand. the lpi changes are just a matter of #include <launchpad-integration.h>09:00
didrocksand then  <placeholder name='LaunchpadItems'/>"09:00
didrockslaunchpad_integration_add_ui (ui, "/MenuBar/HelpMenu/LaunchpadItems");09:01
didrocksthat's it09:01
seb128didrocks: right09:01
didrocksand so, some commands have changed in the API?09:01
seb128didrocks: no09:01
didrocksI'm quite lost ^^09:01
seb128didrocks: that api is for application using gtkuimanager09:02
seb128didrocks: the game which has the error does launchpad_integration_add_items (gtk_menu_item_get_submenu (((GnomeUIInfo)mainmenu[2]).widget), -1, TRUE, TRUE);09:02
seb128didrocks: which is an another api to add a menu item to a standard gtkmenu rather09:02
didrocksoh, ok, this game hasn't been transitionned09:02
didrocksgot it :)09:02
seb128well I don't know what upstream did09:03
seb128but it seems it has been transitioned09:03
seb128they probably moved it to gtkuimanager09:03
didrocksok, but we didn't change the lpi call before, so I have to do it09:03
seb128if that's the case you need to do changes similar to the one you just described09:03
didrocksno problem, understood :)09:04
huatsmorning everyone09:08
seb128lut huats09:28
huatshello seb12809:28
huatshow are you ?09:28
seb128huats: good thank you, how are you?09:29
huatsI am fine too09:29
asacseb128: hey ... found that I had gnome-main-menu upstream bump lying around; uploaded :)09:29
seb128asac: ah good thanks ;-)09:29
asacseb128: eds new tarball?09:29
seb128asac: that should fix the nm changes and build issues ;-)09:30
asacor can i sponsor something on top of current version?09:30
asacseb128: yeah. seems james_w was eager and fixed the build issues09:30
asacbefore ,)09:30
asacseb128: btw, the gnome headers were still needed09:30
asacwe probably want to foward the patch09:30
seb128asac: well, eds uploaded one week as an intrepid update, theorically that should be pocket copied to jaunty if some arches were not taking ages to build09:30
asacupstream uses LIBGNOMEUI_MODULE still in gnome_program_init09:31
asacseb128: hmmm09:31
asacseb128: any reason whyt that update didnt include 248705?09:31
seb128bug #24870509:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 248705 in evolution-data-server "Evolution Exchange does not authenticate to Exchange servers with a relative path in the form action, e.g. "owaauth.dll"" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24870509:31
seb128asac: I think it's fixed in the new version09:31
asacseb128: its committed upstream  ... i wanted to upload it to jaunty first (to get some bake time)09:31
asacseb128: ah09:31
seb128asac: I don't have an exchange account to try though09:31
asacseb128: well ... the same patch landed upstream, so probably it is easy to see (reverse-apply etc)09:32
asaci will check09:32
seb128asac: it's in 2.24.3 I think, you can check again to be sure09:32
asacseb128: hmm ... seems to still apply09:34
asacevolution-data-server-2.24.3$ patch -p1 < evolution-data-server_2.24.2-0ubuntu2.debdiff09:34
asac(Stripping trailing CRs from patch.)09:34
asacpatching file debian/patches/70_evolution_exchange_fix.patch09:34
asac(i stripped the changelog before obviously)09:35
asacanyway. lets pocket copy and work on top of that09:35
asacpitti: can you pocket copy? eds from intrepid to jaunty?09:35
asac(welcome back btw ;))09:36
pittiasac: hi09:36
pittiasac: oh, from -proposed? sure09:36
seb128pitti: oh btw I told slangasek to move deskbar-applet nautilus-cd-burner tracker to supported now09:36
pittiseb128: great09:37
seb128pitti: nautilus-cd-burner is deprecated by brasero, they implement the burn location too now09:37
pittiasac: done09:37
seb128pitti: evolution and evolution-exchange too?09:37
seb128bah, evolution didn't build on ia64 and hppa so that will not work09:38
pittiseb128: done09:38
pittiscrew those :)09:38
seb128pitti: oh, you don't need all arches to pocket copy? cool ;-)09:38
asacseb128: your say: eds exchange fix upload to jaunty or intrepid-proposed (with pocket copy)09:46
seb128asac: jaunty, I don't want to reset the new version testing only for that change09:49
seb128asac: let's get 2.24.3 to intrepid-updates and then do this incremental change, otherwise we delay all the other fixes for yet another week of testing09:49
asacseb128: ah ... didnt know that it didnt go to -updates yet ;)09:50
asacmvo: bzr branch lp:app-install-data-ubuntu09:51
asacFormat <RepositoryFormatKnit1> for lp-46726096:///~ubuntu-core-dev/app-install-data-ubuntu/ubuntu/.bzr is deprecated - please use 'bzr upgrade' to get better performance09:51
asacmvo: shall i upgrade that?10:01
mvoasac: yeah, go for it10:01
seb128hey mvo10:03
mvohey seb12810:03
huatsseb128: did you have a look at the issue I am facing with the gnome-system-monitor ? the libtool stuff10:04
seb128huats: no, can you give me the url again?10:04
huatsseb128: sure10:04
seb128I try not working during weekends ;-)10:04
huatsyeah I know10:04
huatsand you are right :)10:04
huats(I have put everything in that dir)10:05
seb128huats: the error is because automake get ran during the build10:27
seb128huats: either you should try to make the build use the maintainer mode so autotools are not ran or you should change the autoconf patch by an autoreconf one10:28
seb128huats: the build will probably work on a box where automake is not installed, you can try to install it as a workaround10:28
huatsseb128: thanks10:28
seb128you're welcome10:28
seb128brb, trying the new glib version10:29
huatsseb128: I have to admit that I didn't understand why it failed...10:29
huatsI'll look closely at the logs looking for automake then...10:29
asac_mvo: seems i failed to upgrade it ;)10:32
asac_the backup dir already exists and i am too dumb to use lftp to remove it :/10:33
=== asac_ is now known as asac
mvoasac: ha!10:34
mvoasac: I guess you did not get my /msg ?10:34
seb128mvo: do you know what to blame on bug such as bug #313970?13:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 313970 in poppler "package libpoppler-qt4-3 0.8.7-1ubuntu0.1 failed to install/upgrade: cannot access archive: No such file or directory" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31397013:27
mvoseb128: urgs, no - I ask for more information13:38
seb128mvo: thanks13:41
=== davmor2 is now known as davmor2-away
mptDoes anyone here use DSL with NetworkManager, and have some time to answer a couple of questions about how it's configured? (This is not a support question, I'm working on the NetworkManager design)15:34
seb128I don't15:36
* mpt suspects https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/network-manager-pptp is obsolete15:38
seb128mpt: are those questions about dsl options users configure or question about how they use the dialogs?15:38
asacmpt: go to connection editor, crewate a dsl connection, fill in username/password, done15:38
asacmpt: probing for concentrator is not yet done if thats what you ask15:39
asacmpt: and why dont you ping me ;)?15:39
mptasac, though you maintain it, I didn't think you were any more likely to use DSL than anyone else. ;-)15:40
asacmpt: but i know how it works15:40
mptasac, the main thing I want to know is what the menu looks like with a pppoe connection15:41
asacmpt: can you please talk to dan williams about his plans to update nm applet? i think they are working on rewrite so in the end your time could be wasted ;)15:41
mptcould you send me a screenshot?15:41
=== bluesmoke is now known as Amaranth
asacmpt: the menu looks exactly as if its a normal wired connection15:42
asac(e.g. its beneath the "Wired Device" and is called with whatever name you choose when configuring)15:42
asaclet me get a screen15:43
asacmpt: http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/tmp/nm07-dsl.png15:45
mptasac, excellent, thank you15:46
asacmpt: you can do that on your own, but just adding a new dsl connection in wizard ;)15:47
asac(which would also give you the wizard pages ... which might be worth improvement)15:47
mptasac, why do you have disabled copies of three of them?15:47
asacfeature wise the idea is to auto probe for pppoe concentrator and only show the dsl connection if thats available (i guess)15:47
asacmpt: i have two wired devices and didnt say "this dsl thing is only for eth0 or eth1"15:48
asac(which you do by setting the mac address)15:48
asacmpt: the one greyed out doesnt have a link (e.g. no cable plugged)15:48
loolDoes someone know what's wrong with the mono libs?  I have f-spot, beagle and tomboy blocking upgrades after some C# libs were renamed15:53
loolIs this blocked on a ftbfs?  waiting for some uploads?15:53
=== davmor2-away is now known as davmor2
seb128lool: try asking directhex on #ubuntu-devel, I think he's working on that16:06
loolseb128: thanks16:17
asachmm .. metacity is looping :/16:22
asacno output for strace ... so seems to do hot-loop ;)16:23
hggdhseb128, ping16:53
seb128hi hggdh16:53
hggdhhi seb128. I opened an upgrade request for libpst (for Evolution & the new plugin pst-importer for Outlook files)16:53
hggdhseb128, I also packaged libpst-0.6.2516:54
seb128ah, that's good16:54
hggdhbut I am certain I did things wrong somewhere ;-)16:54
seb128attach the update to the bug and subscribe the sponsor team to the bug?16:54
hggdhit is a brand new package -- Evo needs the libpst from the other fork, not from Debian16:55
seb128there is different things named libpst?16:55
hggdhno, there are two forks of the original (orphaned) libpst: debian, and www-five-ten-sg.com/libpst16:56
hggdhdebian's has not really developed; 5-10 has kept on, and now supports Outlook 200716:56
hggdhso Evolution went with it16:56
hggdhbut I had to radically change the debianisation 5-10 did for libpst16:57
hggdhI have noted in the upgrade request I need review16:58
hggdhbug 31760216:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 317602 in libpst "Please upgrade libpst from upstream at www.five-ten-sg.com/libpst" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31760216:58
hggdhseb128, who is the "sponsor team"?16:59
seb128hggdh: ubuntu-universe-sponsors17:00
seb128hggdh: the debian and 5-10 versions are abi incompatible?17:01
seb128not sure if we should aim at having one version, ie replace the debian version by the new upstream code17:01
seb128or rather having different sources17:01
seb128the current debian version and the 5-10 version17:02
hggdhif we get both, it will not quite work -- debian's does not deal with outlook 2007, 5-20 does17:03
seb128we could get both version in the archive that would let evolution use the 5-10 one for example and the other one would still be available for other things which use that17:03
seb128but having duplicated code is not the best thing17:04
hggdhand debian only provides command-line utilities17:04
seb128well, those commands could be used17:04
seb128does the 5-10 version has similar commands?17:04
hggdhyes, they implement the same commands17:05
seb128ok, so basically we should deprecate the debian version17:05
hggdhdebian's generate one single binary package, readpst; mine generates (so far) 3: readpst, libpst, and libpst-dev17:05
hggdhof course, I am still to add in the -dbgs17:06
seb128we automatically get dbgsym for everything17:07
hggdhand I will check compatibility between debian's and 5-10's command-line utilities17:09
hggdhoh, and -- I just imported a PST into Evo trunk -- seems to work17:10
emberseb128 do you have a second to review if the change is alright about brasero split -> http://pfragoso.org/ubuntu/brasero_0.9.1-0ubuntu1.dsc18:16
seb128no, I was about to go18:16
seb128I'll have a look later18:17
emberok thanks18:17
pochuember: is brasero 0.9.x going to be stable for GNOME 2.26?18:17
pochulater seb12818:17
seb128or ask pochu to have a look to the change ;-)18:17
emberis likely to be -> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2009-January/thread.html18:20
emberpochu also have a look at the change :p18:20
pochuah, right18:24
pochuok, let me see18:24
emberthanks, i have to go i will read it later18:28
pochuember: you want a versioned Depends: brasero-common for brasero18:44
pochuprobably brasero-common (>= ${source:Version})18:44
pochuember: put the full description in all the packages, then append "this package contains the foo files" after it18:45
pochu(at least for brasero-common. For libbrasero* either put it, or put something else, but the current one doesn't describe the package :)18:46
pochuember: I think you want s/libtotem-plparserN/libbrasero-mediaN/ in debian/rules :)18:50
pochuember: you may want to move the manpages to brasero to avoid a lintian warning, but that's not necessary18:53
pochuember: not sure if you want /usr/lib/*.a18:54
pochuember: other than that, looks good to me18:54
idnzorhi, i was wondering if someone could help me out with contact information19:31
idnzori wanted to start contributing my user experience expertise to the ubuntu project19:32
idnzori work for a user experience consultancy as a usability analyst, and want to start working outside of work on ubuntu/gnome based projects to give something back to the community19:33
tedgidnzor: Great!21:01
tedgidnzor: We don't have a formal way to do that yet (sadly, but we're working on it).  But a good thing to check out is the Open Usability Project.21:02
tedgidnzor: They do usability analysis and design for open source applications.21:02
idnzorhi tedg, thanks for the information21:13
idnzorwhat is it you are currently working on then? in terms of putting in place a formal approach to usability21:13
tedgidnzor: Yes, I'm working in the newly formed Desktop Experience team, but one of the problems we have is "newly formed" so we don't have good processes yet :(21:15
tedgidnzor: It's definitely something we want to fix.21:15
idnzorok, do you have resources where i could learn a little more about it? wikis etc..21:19
tedgidnzor: Sadly, no.  Probably the best is actually Mark's blog: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/21:29
idnzortedg: ah ok, is there a mailing list for the Desktop Experience team?21:32
tedgidnzor: Only an internal Canonical one currently.21:33
idnzortedg: ah ok, are you a canonical employee currently?21:34
tedgidnzor: Yes, I am.21:35
Ngtedg: so I actually kinda meant I was wondering if there's a higher level abstraction above the python-dbus API ;)21:41
Ngtedg: just because I was going to knock up a little autossh replacement that listens to NM's connection status, but after a few minutes of reading some python dbus code I decided to do something else instead21:42
tedgNg: Heh, it depends on the API.  There are things like libnotify that don't require any DBus at all, but actually use DBus.21:42
tedgNg: Hmm, that shouldn't be too hard.21:43
idnzortedg: ok, are there any immediate plans to open up the desktop experience team to allow people external to the organisation to contribute?21:43
Ngtedg: I'll have another play now, but I was pretty much expecting a oneliner to say "I want events from NM to go to this callback" :)21:43
tedgNg:  vi `which gnome-power-manager-inhibit`21:44
tedgidnzor: Yeah, we really want to set up a design.ubuntu.com and do things through there.  But, we're not there yet.21:44
Ngtedg: thanks :)21:46
waltersNg: have you seen hotssh?21:48
idnzortedg: is there anything you feel the team need in the way of community support at the moment?21:49
idnzortedg: in other words, you need my help :p21:49
Ngwalters: yeah, I want to just run this inside an existing terminal though (a terminator split, specifically)21:51
waltersNg: yeah; i think it'd be cool though if there was hotssh-with-layout or terminator-with-special-ssh-support though21:53
waltersNg: how library like is current terminator code?21:54
tedgidnzor: I don't have anything specific, but if you took something and made some mockups with some ideas, I'm sure they'd be considered.21:54
Ngwalters: there's a guy working on a fork at the moment called ssherminator. we're a bit stuck at the moment, but I'm hoping we can make the UI work to fold his stuff back in later21:55
tedgidnzor: In general, we're trying to look at "desktop wide" things instead of application specific.21:55
tedgidnzor: So something on that topic would definitely be interesting.21:55
Ngwalters: our (by which I mean my) code is a bit of a disaster really, I really suck at design, so there's not really any clear interfaces, and the objects peek inside each other too much. I would *love* to get some pointers on what I could be doing better though :)21:56
waltersNg: eh, i wouldn't worry about that kind of thing too much; in the end what's important is a good user experience21:57
waltersNg: unless it's *really* bad =)21:58
Ngwalters: I think the suck is limited by it not being a huge amount of code, but absolutely the user experience is the focus, and I'm resolutely refusing to waste lots of time trying to rewrite and making new mistakes :)21:58
idnzortedg: by desktop wide do you mean quite fundamental changes to the desktop experience?22:01
tedgidnzor: Yes, across applications.  So things like networking configuration where it's not app specific, but a bunch of apps use networking.22:02
idnzortedg: or just an approach which encompasses all applications under the ubuntu desktop22:02
tedgidnzor: That too. :)22:02
idnzortedg: ok, how are you going to look at incorporating usability into this?22:04
idnzortedg: for example, are you looking at using usability testing, or having a more expert approach to design?22:04
tedgtedg: We're looking at both.  Expert design to get started, but we want to incorporate user testing also.  We're trying to figure out some way to distribute the user testing, as we have a great community, figuring out ways that they can help.22:07
idnzortedg: i was thinking that. from my experience, remote usability testing does not work any as near as good as co-located usability testing22:10
dobeyidnzor: how exactly are you looking to contribue? code? design? testing?22:10
pochuNg: the user experience is *awesome*!22:10
idnzorwell, ideally drive design through usability22:11
tedgidnzor: Yeah, that's one of the reasons we were looking at using the LoCo teams in various areas to help.22:11
tedgidnzor: seele did some usability testing with her LoCo in Washington D.C. with mixed success.22:12
dobeythat's a very vague and open answer :)22:12
idnzorfor example, design and facilitate usability testing, then produce recommendations from that, in the form of analysis and wireframing, for example22:12
idnzorany good usability analyst knows when to be vague and open :p22:13
tedgidnzor: What timezone are you in?22:13
idnzormy work is very much based in the Web22:13
tedgidnzor: You might try pinging mpt here tomorrow.  He's in the UK also, so he's probably dinner/asleep right now, but he'd have more information.22:13
dobeyidnzor: i don't know if you've seen http://betterdesktop.org/ but it's pretty much exactly what you just described (or it was intented to be when I was at Novell and there was a product design team, and there was some semblance of caring about usability)22:14
dobeythere's also lots of automated testing that can be done, to improve usability, but which doesn't really require users to test (accessibility framework support, for example)22:15
idnzorhmmm, i am not sure about the desktop, but only around 10% of accessibility tests can be done automatically on the Web22:16
idnzorand as for automatic usability testing, you have to be careful not to conclude anything to broad with it22:17
dobeywell, you can do regression testing for UI layout following the HIG, pretty easily, with automated scripts22:18
idnzorthats right, but it won't tell you if the HIG is right in the first place22:19
idnzorhmmm, but it would be interesting to know where you guys are going with the team desktop experience team22:20
dobeybut you can't really put an objective measurement on a subjective problem. you can only make somewhat educated guesses at what's good or not :)22:20
dobeydo you have any development/coding background?22:21
dobeya while back, i started working on a suite of tools to help with usability testing and analysis of those tests, but never really got the time to take it to the level i'd like to see it at22:22
idnzorwell, ideally you should ask the user whats good or not, then there is no guessing involved, only reasoning based on attitudinal and empirical data :D22:22
dobeyhttp://launchpad.net/deskscribe if you're interested. i recently just moved it over to launchpad22:22
idnzorok thanks, i will check it out22:23
dobeyidnzor: yes, well, if you only ask 10 or 100 users, it may or may not be reflective of the opinions of the other million usrs :)22:23
idnzori have development experience22:23
idnzorhehe, your are very right :p22:24
dobeythere are lots of awesome things that i want to see done with deskscribe, but i just haven't had the time to look into getting them done22:25
dobeyparticularly in the area of audio/video recording22:25
idnzori think the betterdesktop.org approach was a good start tho22:26
dobeyit was22:26
dobeyit's too bad the ball got dropped22:26
dobeybut it would be pretty easy to pick up from where it was left off22:26
dobeyespecially if the features i mentioned get added to deskscribe22:26
dobeywould be very easy to set up a "usability lab" then with a few webcams22:27
idnzorthe challenge is how to use a large distributed community using the best usability methods available, which all require co-location with participants22:27
idnzorthats right, all you need it a few webcams22:27
dobeywith most modern laptops, you've already got a webcam and mic anyway22:28
dobeycould very easily do eye tracking, and video recording of facial expressions with that22:28
idnzorcontext is very important though22:28
dobeyyes, well, mouse movements would be tracked (as deskscribe already does), and the desktop itself would be captured in video as well22:29
idnzorand eliciting peoples thoughts22:29
dobeysimilar to the videos you see on betterdesktop.org22:29
idnzorthats right, but i think you need a facilitator there22:30
dobeysometimes yes22:30
dobeybut i think it would be pretty easy to get the community involved if we had scripts on a web site, and the software to do all the hard work22:31
idnzorthe benefit of facilitated sessions comes in exploring issues that arise during the sessions22:32
idnzorbut like you say, there is still value in a set up like that22:32
dobeybut providing a plug-n-play package makes it easy for arbitrary people in the community go out and do usability testing22:33
idnzorsome companies are offering it as a service on the web. essentially a set up which involves company a proving a script, then people go look at a website and try to complete those tasks in the script on the website22:33
dobeyand be the facilitator and provoke discussione/etc...22:33
idnzori guess the challenge then comes in the analysis of data22:34
idnzorfrom my experience its better to do 12 well designed testing sessions than 24 heavily discounted ones, discounted in terms or method design22:35
idnzorbetter both in terms of resources used to analyse and quality of the data itself22:36
dobeyyeah, sure22:36
idnzori think expert based appraoch also has its merits, however22:36
idnzorand the model of open source is well suited to it22:37
idnzorhowever, it is something that is done pretty wrong on the whole at the moment22:37
idnzorin the way that people, with the best intentions, who develop the UI often are grounded with a heavy technical perspective and not a human factors one22:38
dobeysometimes, yes22:39
idnzorof course, that was a generalisation :P22:39
* dobey is a bit well rounded himself22:39
idnzorsorry, i only decided to contribute to the community tonight, so my ideas are all over the place at the moment22:39
dobeyno worries22:40
dobeyi've been hacking on gnome for 10 years :)22:40
idnzorthe thing is, for me its best to first understand now developers currently work22:40
idnzorthey are the ones grinding out the code, and from my experience engaging with the developers is key to pushing UE22:41
dobeysome can be frighteningly opposed to sanity though :)22:42
idnzoryh, you hear some things that make you wonder22:42
idnzor'the users should be intelligent enough, why should i worry about where a button is placed'22:43
idnzor'the user journeys work fine'22:43
idnzori am working through a lot of politics on a project at the moment22:44
idnzorthe technical guy thinks usability it about getting colours right, hes convinced the system he has set up it fine22:45
idnzorbut oh well22:46
idnzorenough work woes :p22:46
seb128dunno what you guys are discussing but it seems I was right to not start IRC to get some work done ;-)22:47
idnzorwell, i will swing by here again, i posted an email to the mailing list as well22:48
seb128idnzor: ah, I noticed your email on the list, good to have people interested by usuability there ;-)22:49
idnzorim passionate about it :p22:50
idnzori luckily work in a very good company who really understands UE22:50
idnzoronly 25 of us that work there but we do some pretty cool stuff22:51
idnzorwell, compared to the "big guys" :p22:52
seb128that's already enough people to do good work ;-)22:52
idnzortrying to get into the accessibility side of thigns as well atm22:52
idnzorwe did some work for the UN recently22:53
idnzorwe are pretty much one of the best consultancies for that in the world22:53
idnzorcool eh22:54
idnzorour head of accessibility is uber22:54
dobeygetting a11y right is hard22:54
idnzorwe use the web accessibility guidelines, i guess as we mostly focus on web design22:55
dobeygetting a11y right on the web is even harder :)22:55
idnzorwe developed the first fully accessible CMS22:56
dobeywell kudos then22:57
dobeyhrmm, i think i need to go develop some clean cookware22:58
idnzoranyway, im off22:58
idnzorlike i said if i can be of any help to anyone please let me know22:59
idnzormy email is on the list....22:59
Ngpochu: :D23:08
seb128vuntz: there?23:18
vuntzseb128: mmh?23:18
vuntzseb128: let me rephrase23:18
vuntzseb128: no!23:18
seb128lut vuntz23:18
seb128vuntz: you install gnome-wm.desktop in your distro right? what directory do you use?23:19
seb128vuntz: context is bug #31695823:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 316958 in gnome-session "gnome-wm is missing a .desktop file" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31695823:19
vuntzseb128: /usr/share/applications/gnome-wm.desktop23:19
seb128vuntz: ok, so the bug is right ;-)23:20
seb128vuntz: thanks23:20
vuntzmaybe, didn't read the bug :-)23:20
seb128vuntz: it was installed in the autostart directory until now, which seems to work but displays a warning23:20
vuntzyeah, autostart is wrong23:20
vuntzit's like gnome-panel.desktop23:20
seb128vuntz: the bug suggests moving that to the standard directory and to add a nodisplay=true23:20
vuntzseb128: use gnome-session 2.25.5!23:21
vuntzit should have the NoDisplay=True23:21
seb128vuntz: while you are here I've an another question23:21
seb128vuntz: is gnome-wm an upstream thing still? ;-) the upstream make install doesn't install it23:21
seb128vuntz: anyway, the other question is about the desktop,menu specifications23:22
seb128hum, wait, I wanted to check something before asking that23:23
seb128let's be lazy23:23
vuntzseb128: it's upstream, but not installed. In openSUSE, I think we just fix the autotools to install it23:23
seb128vuntz: you know how GNOME use or abuse .desktop to add nautilus actions23:23
seb128those are .desktop which usually use NoDisplay=true or Hidden=true23:24
seb128is that the right way to do this?23:24
seb128or is there a way to declare action .desktop, ie things which are not supposed to be menu entries?23:24
vuntzseb128: NoDisplay=true is the right way to do it at the moment23:25
vuntzit's suboptimal, though23:25
seb128vuntz: which means all those are listed in the open with dialog for example23:25
vuntzI'd like to bring back support of actions in desktop files, so that you can handle various mime types in a different way in one single desktop file23:25
seb128that would be nice, but seems also orthogonal to the open with dialog issue23:27
huatsseb128: hey23:30
seb128lut huats23:30
huatsI just wanted you to know that I have done the gtksourceview2 and deskbar-applet update too (I just need to test them tomorrow)23:31
huats(tomorrow cause I have an issue with my vm right now...)23:31
huats(I'll also do the gnome-system-monitor tomorrow...)23:32
seb128huats: I did upload gtksourceview2 gedit gvfs nautilus some hours ago23:32
seb128huats: sorry about the gtksourceview2 duplication23:32
huatsI haven't seen the gtksourceview23:32
huatsno pb23:32
seb128huats: you can do deskbar-applet gnome-system-monitor23:32
seb128and if you want extra ones just ask ;-)23:32
huatssure :)23:33
seb128didrocks: new gnome-games for you btw23:33
huatsI will tomorrow :)23:33
seb128chrisccoulson: do you want to do the gnome-session new version update? I'm about to sponsor your patch for now23:33
seb128huats: cool23:33
chrisccoulsonyeah, i can do that no problem23:33
seb128chrisccoulson: thanks ;-)23:33
chrisccoulsonwhich patch was that?23:33
chrisccoulson**cant remember**23:33
seb128chrisccoulson: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/21247560/gnome-session_2.25.3-0ubuntu2.debdiff23:34
huats(and I have seen the new gda and anjuta too... but later once the I will follow your advice of doing main stuffs first :))23:34
chrisccoulsonah yes!23:34
huats(even if libgda is in main)23:34
huatsseb128: I got to go now23:35
huatstalk to you tomorrow23:35
huatsgood night23:35
seb128ok, vt switching seems to crash this box on jaunty23:56
seb128chrisccoulson: your gnome-session change doesn't work, I'll not sponsor it ;-)23:57
seb128it's a bit late to start debugging but no gnome-wm get started there when using your version23:57
chrisccoulsonhmmm, that's odd23:57
chrisccoulsonlet me try it again23:57
chrisccoulsonwhat iswhat have you got in "/desktop/gnome/session/required_components/windowmanager"?23:58
chrisccoulsonwhoops, that doesn't completely make sense23:58
chrisccoulson2 sentences spliced together;)23:58
chrisccoulsonah, it should say "gnome-wm". that is the default23:59

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