billisnicealpha 3 out?00:00
Laneybillisnice: see /topic00:01
billisnicelol, seeing the topic would be good00:01
billisnicedoes ext4 install auto this time?00:01
directhexis ext4 upgradable live, the way 2->3 is?00:02
LaneyI think so, but you don't get some feature or other00:03
* Laney knows not much about this00:03
billisniceI still do not know how to switch to ext4? Where are the instructions00:03
Laneybillisnice: Probably best for #ubuntu+100:04
RAOFdirecthex: Yes it is, but some features only apply to new files.00:04
directhexRAOF, and backward compatible e.g. using the ext2 driver for windows?00:04
RAOFdirecthex: Not new files; they'll be using extents, which aren't backwardly compatible.00:04
directhexhm. i hope someone cobbles together a driver, then00:05
NCommanderpersia, you around?00:22
=== emma_ is now known as emma
persiaNCommander, ?01:17
NCommanderpersia, do you know how to modify a COPYING file to include two licenses (do I just stick the second one in there or do I need to list what files are licensed what (everything has the right header)01:17
persiaNCommander, Context?  You're working upstream, and merging in code with a different license?01:22
NCommanderpersia, no, upstream has code under two licenses, the copying file only has one, but they're willing to change the copying file provided I give them a diff :-)01:22
NCommander(and thus also let me get the compontent into Ubuntu once I repack)01:22
persiaWell, I don't know best practice for that.  My personal preference when reviewing copyright for a package is that COPYING contains information about who holds copyright over which files, and under which licenses, with pointers to external files (also in ./) for specific licenses when multilicensed, or an inline license when there is only one.01:24
persiaI suspect that's against the intent, and that best practice would be for COPYING to contain something like "foo is released under the the GNU Public License version 3, and includes components bar and baz previously released under the GNU Lesser Public License version 2.1, ..."01:26
NCommanderOk, that works for me.01:36
jharrcjwatson, maxb: I'm trying to build a bootable chroot. binfmt stuff isn't working (trying to execute perl scripts with [ba]sh); e1000.ko module isn't loading automatically (am I missing a modprobe package or something?).02:51
jharrcjwatson, maxb: there's a lot of things I could hard-code for my purposes, but I'm trying to get it to work automatically. I'm building a vnfs capsule generator script for perceus and want it work on other hardware.02:53
jharrIf anyone has suggestions as to where to go to ask for this sort of thing, let me know. From what I know about #ubuntu, this question is probably not well suited to that channel :p02:55
persiajharr, regarding binfmt, is binfmt-support installed in your chroot?02:55
persiajharr, It's mildly offtopic for this channel, but no, there's probably not a better place (to my knowledge).02:55
jharrpersia: thx :)02:56
jharrYou know, I'm an idiot for not checking this... /usr/bin/perl is there, but it's 0 bytes02:56
jharrTurns out /dev/pts wasn't being mounted by debootstrap, which borks perl's install.02:59
jharrLet me see what version of debootstrap I have (I'm doing this from a CentOS 5.2 box and an rpmforge.net verison of debootstrap, don't hit me).03:01
jharrI'll go poke around with that, thanks for the tips.03:01
bluefoxicyWARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated!04:35
bluefoxicy  libavdevice52 libimlib2 ffmpeg04:35
bluefoxicy^^^ is this supposed to happen  after apt-get update fails ENONETCONNECTION?04:35
jharrInstalling binfmt-support in a chroot and it's borking at the "setting up" phase. Apparently because it's getting the wrong info from uname (b/c of the chroot)05:06
jharrFATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/ No such file or directory05:06
dholbachgood morning05:07
jharrdholbach: good morning05:08
dholbachhey jharr05:08
jharrmaybe this is in the init script for it05:14
jharrIs there any way to prevent a package from calling an /etc/init script?05:22
jharrwhen it's installed05:22
grndslmhow do the three different repos work (regular, -updates, & -security)??  if an update is made to -security... the code in the other 2 are also updated?  or if an update's made to -updates... the code in -security isn't updated, right?05:23
LaserJocknothing goes into the regular repo after release05:24
LaserJockstuff goes into -security for security updates or -updates for critical non-security updates05:24
LaserJockbut often times the stuff in -security get's copied over to -updates to take some of the load off the servers05:25
karthikhey help me where can i get info on how to create a workspace05:25
LaserJockgrndslm: does that sort of answer the question?05:25
grndslmLaserJock: kinda05:27
grndslmmostly yes05:27
LaserJockkarthik: what do you mean by a workspace? I'm guessing this isn't the right channel05:27
karthikLaserJock: we can some define it as a virtual desktop..05:28
LaserJockkarthik: you should probably ask #ubuntu05:30
karthikLaserJock: i'm trying to implement using a c program05:31
superm1jharr, --no-start as an argument to dh_installinit.  there's a variety of other ones too for other situations.  look at dh_installinit's man page for more06:08
jharrsuperm1: thx06:11
karthikhey any one help abt how to create a virtual desktop06:13
karthikusing a c prog06:13
pittiGood morning everyone!06:28
Hobbseehey there pitti!06:37
pittiI'm back from skiing, and still in one piece :)06:42
tkamppeterpitti, hi08:14
=== evan_ is now known as evand
apwpitti, thanks for applying mdz's patch saves me a job09:39
pittiapw: you're welcome :)09:40
* apw throws away his debdiff09:40
pittiapw: I just ran the script, and it works fine here on a Dell Latitude D430 after I fixed "pmi suspend" -> "pm-suspend"09:40
apwyeah i seem to have something installed on my test boxes which isn't standard and i don't know why09:41
apwis powermanagement-interface non-standard and if so how have i gotten it09:42
apwi was under the impression that was the official interface to these operations09:42
* apw wonders how he would find out such a thing09:44
directhexhm. pitti, you're the oracle for such things. can you tell me why the "ndoc" source package is in main? are there any clues in the vast swathes of files which decide which section to put things in?09:45
pittiapw: pmi was installed by default until intrepid09:46
apwhmmm, thats unhelpful09:46
cjwatsonjharr: you don't actually need binfmt-support unless you're trying to get things like Windows executables to execute automatically; #! lines are interpreted by the kernel and the only userspace support they need is for the relevant interpreter to work09:47
apwi guess i need to go get the launcher and find out what the heck it calls09:47
pittidirecthex: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.jaunty/rdepends/ndoc/09:47
pittiapw: "launcher"?09:48
pittiapw: if you mean the gnome-power-manager applet09:48
pittiapw: it does a hal call, which in turn calls pm-suspend09:48
apwi mean the thing that adds the suspend things to the menuything09:48
directhexpitti, "* Extra seed"?09:48
pittidirecthex: yes, because the library is pulled in via dependencies, we keep the util in main, too09:49
cjwatsonjharr: dh_installinit --no-start is useful if you're building a package but I suspect that superm1 didn't realise you were building a chroot. Usually people just want to stop daemons being started. There are a couple of ways to do that kind of thing which hook in at different levels: to stop just the daemon being started, you can dpkg-divert the start-stop-daemon program; to stop the init script being called at all ...09:49
cjwatson... (usually), write a policy-rc.d script (see the invoke-rc.d(8) manual page).09:49
directhexpitti, hm, i wonder why antlr uses it - it's a java thing!09:50
cjwatsonthe antlr source package builds a libantlr2.7-cil binary package09:51
cjwatsonnote that the antlr->nant arc is a build-dependency not a dependency09:51
directhexbah, circular build dep between nant & ndoc10:00
mdzapw: powermanagement-interface is something which is installed by default, but it's old and should probably be superseded by more recent development10:07
mdzapw: this part of the stack needs the same sort of analysis and cleanup that slangasek is doing for hotkeys10:07
apwyeah we are doing some stuff on this on the obsolete acpi duplicate suspend machinary10:08
mdzTheMuso: I'm noticing that on both systems I've upgraded to Jaunty, my mixer levels are now muted by default, when they used to be set to sensible values10:13
cjwatsonmdz: powermanagement-interface was installed by default, but is no longer in jaunty10:14
cjwatsonthat should be read "is no longer installed by default in jaunty" rather than "no longer exists in jaunty"10:14
cjwatsonit's still installed by xubuntu-desktop for some reason10:14
mdzcjwatson: oh, good.  I didn't notice as it wasn't removed during the upgrade10:14
* mdz purges it10:15
mdza piece of history though10:15
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
mvocjwatson: I guess I should add a config entry that remove it for ubuntu-desktop users then on upgrade?10:24
cjwatsonmvo: hopefully it can drop to universe by jaunty release; but in the absence of that, I guess so, yes10:24
mdzapw: as I wrote in the thread, pmi is actually doing something pretty close to what you'd want (talking to hal via dbus), it's just that it's probably no longer used by much of anything except your script ;-)10:26
mdzapw: a copy/paste of the dbus-send logic might be the appropriate thing if there's no better tool for this case10:26
mdzapw: I assume we'll want a very similar script for hibernate testing which will have the same issues10:27
pittimdz, apw: "gnome-power-cmd.sh suspend" would replicate it, but it needs to run as user, not roo10:27
pittibut you need root for programming the automatic wakeup (once that actually works)10:28
apwand its gnome specifc i guess10:28
mdzpitti: running as the user sounds like a feature10:28
pittiyes, it is10:28
pittimdz: it would be, yes10:28
mdzthough there are a couple of things in the script which require root at the moment10:28
mdzenable_trace and disable_trace10:28
apwyeah the wakeup needs root right now, but that doesn't mean we can't dip in and out10:28
mdzwriting the log too10:29
apwits not impossible to split it into two cooperating halves10:29
thekornpitti: hi, when you have a minute, can you please look at bug 314212, I'm wondering if we should work around this in py-lp-bugs by trying to reupload if lp.net/+storeblob timeouts10:29
pittiapw: you could use $SUDO_USER and such hacks, but I really think that using dbus-send to hal is the right thing to do10:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 314212 in apport "Apport unable to report crash - urlopen error timed out" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31421210:29
pittithekorn: hm, I thought that would have been fixed in LP last week?10:29
mdzapw: we'll need to do it anyway to make it fit nicely into a desktop-oriented test framework10:29
apwpitti, i tend to agree that next step is probabally to use dbus.  tehn we can work on splitting it so that it can run as user at least in part10:30
mdzI  think checkbox insists on running as root at the moment, but I'm inclined to consider that a bug (->cr3,heno)10:30
apwwhich would fit with what mdz is suggesting there whcih i assume would include a pretty interface10:30
thekornpitti: me too, but there were some new reports about it over the weekend and some people complaining in #u-bugs10:31
thekornpitti: maybe this needs a launchpad task10:32
mdzthekorn,pitti: I've had some cloakroom problems this morning as well10:32
mdzI've seen both a) apport opening file://ubuntu rather than http://launchpad.net in firefox, and b) NotFound on the +filebug URL with the cloakroom ID10:32
pittimdz, thekorn: I wonder whether we are really talking about the same thing10:33
mdzthe former was intermittent, the latter persistent10:33
=== asac_ is now known as asac
pittione was that the upload suceeded, but the +filebug/DEADBEEF page said "no such page"10:33
pittithe other is that the upload itself times out/fails10:33
mdzpitti: I agree that using dbus-send is the right thing to do, but it would be nice to abstract it away in a nice function which knows which dbus method to call and which argument to pass, etc...and we are back to pmi :-)10:34
mdzpitti: is a) either of those, or are there three different problems?10:34
thekornpitti: right the "no such page" one was supposed to be fixed in lp last week10:34
pittimdz: a) sounds like you are using some test backend again?10:34
mdzpitti: I literally retried with the same configuration and it worked10:35
pittimdz: b) is bug 311690, I believe10:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 311690 in launchpad-foundations "Delay between blob submission and blob availability causes Launchpad to OOPS." [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31169010:35
mdzwell, a different crash report actually, but otherwise the same10:35
pittimdz: if you have a reproducer for file://ubuntu, can you please mail me/create a bug report?10:35
mdzpitti: 311690 was workaroundable before by waiting a few seconds and reloading; this time it's persistent10:36
pittiso this needs to be reopened then?10:36
tseliothey pitti10:37
pittihey tseliot10:37
mdzpitti: I can reproduce every time on this crash file, I'll send it to you10:38
mdzpitti: while we're on the subject, I was thinking about whether it's still a good idea to defer collecting the hook information etc. until the user is notified about the report.  don't we have a beter chance of getting accurate and relevant data if we run the hooks and collect package info immediately when the crash happens?10:40
pittimdz: two reasons for this: (1) hooks often collect user data (gconf keys), but kernel-triggered apport runs as root, and (2) hooks can potentially take a lot of time, which doesn't have a progress bar when the crash happens10:41
pittimdz: however, for quick hooks which depend on timely information, we could have another class of hooks which run right away10:41
mdzpitti: (1) is a legitimate concern, and perhaps there should be two types of hooks.  we already have both hooks which break because they require root, and hooks which expect user context (e.g. an X display)10:42
mdzpitti: regarding (2), I think it's OK to run them in the background with high nice+ionice and not worry about how long it takes10:42
mdzpitti: sometimes I've already installed updates before I report the bug, and the package info will be wrong10:43
pittimdz: oh, and a third reason is that at the time when the crash happens, we don't even know which package it belongs to10:43
mdzpitti: it also makes it harder for things like X, which wants to get the log file before it's rotated away10:43
mdzpitti: we can look that up, the only reason we don't do it is (2) right?10:44
pittimdz: right, because dpkg -S takes so awfully long10:44
mdznot only because it takes so long, but because it bogs down the system (I think ionice -c3 would address that)10:44
pittimdz: ionice/nice would take care for the "bog down system" only partially10:45
pittisince you still need to wait for that long until the app actually disappears and you can restartit10:45
pittibut in a dev release that's certainly bearable10:46
mdzpitti: why? it should be possible to collect the info after the process has ended10:46
pittiapport could fork()/setsid() itself after collecting core dump and /proc, probably10:47
seb128what is the discussion about? running apport on stable versions?10:47
pittiseb128: no, running hooks when the crash happens, as opposed to when the UI runs10:48
seb128ah ok10:48
pittirunning it on stables is not just a performance issue (that's actually the least important reason)10:48
tseliotseb128: I have fixed this bug and provided upstream with patches (which are no longer workarounds): https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/30730610:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 307306 in gnome-power-manager "upgrade to 2: makes session utterly slow" [High,In progress]10:54
seb128tseliot: that was not a gnome-settings-daemon bug then?10:54
tseliotseb128: it was a bug in both gnome-settings-daemon and gnome-power-manager. They use an expensive RandR call every time an event is triggered10:55
* pitti hugs tseliot10:55
seb128tseliot: ok10:56
tseliotpitti: the patches are in the upstream reports, if you want to try them10:56
cjwatsondoko_: have you noticed that there are comments in bug 235070 indicating that it isn't fixed in hardy?10:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 235070 in gcc-4.2 "Please apply libgomp patch to GCC for Hardy Heron" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/23507010:58
cjwatson(despite the presence of that patch in hardy-updates)10:59
apwcjwatson, is it reasonable to rely on the fact that a dpkg-buildpackage will 'clean' your source tree before packaging it|11:07
cjwatsonapw: yes11:07
cjwatson(there's an -nc flag in case you don't want that)11:08
apwand would it be reasonable to fix permissions in your source tree while cleaning it11:08
apwyou can't say -nc with -S its not legal11:08
cjwatsonyes, but it might be better to fix permissions just before using the scripts in question11:08
cjwatsonactually, I think I may have misunderstood you11:09
cjwatsonyou cannot rely on clean being run after extraction11:09
cjwatsonand adding executable bits before building the source package will do you no good - they need to be applied after extraction11:09
apwso there is no hook for makeing sure the tree is ready11:09
cjwatsondo it in the build target instead11:09
cjwatsonsure there is, 'build' :-)11:09
cjwatsonbuild can depend on whatever it needs11:10
cjwatson(or just do it inline)11:10
apwand thats safe in the face of parallel builds11:10
cjwatsonif debian/rules is written correctly, yes11:10
apwgot any info on what 'correctly' is in this cas11:11
cjwatsoninfo make11:11
cjwatsonI believe it has information on ordering11:11
cjwatsonfor example, 'build: dep1 dep2' means that dep1 and dep2 may be run in parallel, while 'build: dep2' and 'dep2: dep1' means that dep1 must be completed before dep2 starts11:11
apwthat would make sense to my expectationh of make behavior11:12
apwok will try it that way.  i do not want to fix every build target for the kernel, its toooo likely to go wrong11:12
cjwatsonyou already have prepare- targets in debian/rules.d/2-binary-arch.mk11:13
apwyeah but they are for the binary components, and i need to ensure i beat the headers too11:14
cjwatsonyou can also call debian/rules recursively if it makes things easily11:15
cjwatsonso 'rulename:\n\tchmod blah;\n\tdebian/rules prereq1 prereq2'11:16
cjwatsonpolicy and the dpkg-dev toolset just specify a minimal interface - it's for maintainers to build richer things on top of that11:16
apwi think i can use the same prepare concept in here for everything, have a general prepare11:16
apwits just a lot of complexity to paper over the loss of information in the packaging system.  sigh11:17
luisbgis it a holliday today in the USA?11:36
directhexMLK today11:37
directhexi think that's an optional holiday11:37
luisbgdirecthex, ok cool thanks11:37
tkamppeterpitti, please do not yet upload CUPS or pass through my upload into-proposed (bug 310575). I have still to add a fix.11:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 310575 in cups "A3 pdf file is cropped and printed on A4 paper" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31057511:37
pittitkamppeter: ok; I rejected it from the intrepid queue11:39
ograurgh, hall in C++ ?11:41
* ogra is scared11:41
tseliotogra: are you talking about libhal++ or what?11:44
ogratseliot, about the recent annoucement on the hal ML11:45
ograyes, seems to be libhal++11:45
ograa fork/reimplementation11:45
ogra"HAL/C++ is a _reimplementation_ of libhal and libhal-storage in pure C++, using dbus-C++."11:46
tseliotaah, this one: http://projects.backtrace.info/pmwiki.php?n=Main.Halmm11:46
tseliotsooner or later we'll use DeviceKit11:47
ogra"It is modeled after the original libhal and libhal-storage, but does not aim at complete adherance to the original API."11:47
ograthats scary11:47
tseliotit depends on what you plan on doing with it11:47
ograwell, apps will still use libhal for quite a while ... it takes its time until linked apps will switch11:47
broonieogra: It does make some sense to have an API that makes sense in the language you're working with rather than another language that happens to link with it.11:48
ograbroonie, right, but it doesnt make sense to reimplement it in a fresh fork ...11:48
ograinstead of just adding to the existing code and thus keep API/ABI compatibility11:48
broonieUh, doing something sensible in $OTHER_LANGUAGE rather implies breaking those; one of the wins with DBusing stuff is to keep a cross language ABI at the DBus level rather than lib level.11:51
ograwell, still new implementation requires new documentaion etc etc ... while as tseliot says a completely new system is in the work11:56
Keybukmvo: do you know of anything that would call udev{adm ,}trigger on an upgrade?12:01
=== azeem_ is now known as azeem
james_wis it fine for any old package to use lzma compression and Pre-Depend on the relevant dpkg version?12:15
pittijames_w: for most, anyway; it should probably be avoided for base packages, to avoid breaking debootstrap12:17
james_wit's easystroke in universe12:17
james_wthe contributor, and upstream maintainer, added it in the latest upstream version, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't against policy12:17
tkamppeterpitti, I have released Foomatic 4.0 last week. Intrepid ships only a BZR snapshot. The BZR snapshot has some bugs, once Intrepid does not pass the LSB 3.2 compliance tests (http://bugs.linuxbase.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2423) and second, there are two bugs reported to Ubuntu: bug 299918 and bug 30369112:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 299918 in foomatic-filters "Cannot print duplex in intrepid with Ricoh Aficio 2060, Ricoh Aficio MPC3000 or Brother HL-4050cdn using the openprinting drivers" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29991812:31
ubottubugs.linuxbase.org bug 2423 in lsb-test-printing "foomatic-rip tests fail against foomatic-filters-4.0" [Normal,Resolved: notourbug]12:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 303691 in foomatic-filters "Intrepid, print broken with Minolta PagePro 8L printer" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30369112:31
tkamppeterSo I am thinking about an SRU for Intrepid updating foomatic-filters to 4.0.0 final.12:32
pittitkamppeter: are any of those regressions from hardy?12:32
tkamppeterYes, as Hardy still shipped the Perl version (3.0.x) of foomatic-filters. All three bugs did noty occur with that version.12:33
pittitkamppeter: remember that if you upgrade to the final 4.0, *all* of the changes have to pass SRU criteria, otherwise we should just backport the specific changes (if they are serious)12:35
tkamppeterpitti, concerning bug 310575 now everything is ready, new fix committed to the BZR and uploaded to -proposed.12:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 310575 in cups "A3 pdf file is cropped and printed on A4 paper" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31057512:45
Keybukwhat's the right format of version number for an upload to hardy-propsed?12:49
ograand make sure to not clash with security :)12:49
Keybukdo you have to upload with hardy-proposed in changelog or hardy?12:51
mvoKeybuk: udev-triggered-on-upgrade> no, but I can try to find out more about it - does it seem to happen on a standard upgrade?12:51
Keybukmvo: I guess - mdz is the only person to have reported it so far12:51
pittimvo: any idea what to do with bug 241431?12:52
ubottuLaunchpad bug 241431 in update-manager "edgy to feisty upgrades fail due to use of old-releases" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24143112:52
mvopitti: uf, the proper fix is to backport the code from the jaunty version so that it auto-detect if it needs to use archive.u.c or old-releases.u.c12:52
mdzKeybuk: I'm on the machine now; is there anything I can look at for clues?12:53
Keybukmdz: I'm surprised there's nothing in /var/log :-/12:54
mvoKeybuk: ok, is this for bug #317944 ? I have a look on my auto-upgrade testing image if it shows a similar behavior12:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 317944 in udev "Wrong permissions in /dev after Intrepid->Jaunty upgrade" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31794412:54
Keybukmvo: right12:54
mdzKeybuk: syslog shows that syslogd was restarted a few minutes after the ctime on /dev/null, which explains why its socket is unmangled12:55
Keybukmdz: no messages from udevd?12:55
pittimvo: I don't feel we should do that for feisty, but for gutsy/hardy/intrepid it might be worthwhile?12:55
pochuKeybuk: hardy-proposed12:55
mvopitti: ok12:55
mdzKeybuk: none (ever, so far as I see)12:56
mdzthe only occurrence of 'udevd' is in dmesg12:56
Keybukright, it'll be in your dmesg history12:56
Keybukkern.log has timestamps12:56
mdzKeybuk: it's not in kern.log at all12:57
mdzdmesg.0:[   20.478679] udevd version 124 started12:57
mdzdmesg.1.gz:[   22.546635] udevd version 124 started12:57
mdzdmesg.2.gz:[   19.596002] udevd version 124 started12:57
mdzdmesg.3.gz:[   18.636002] udevd version 124 started12:57
mdzdmesg.4.gz:[   19.456003] udevd version 124 started12:57
mdzthose are the only occurrences12:57
mdz(notably, it isn't in my current dmesg)12:57
loolbug #223324 has 32 dups and seems to be a dup of bug #221781; is there a way to mass fix the dups of 223324?12:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 223324 in scrollkeeper "Parser error in ///usr/share/gnome/help/blackjack/el/blackjack.xml : Entity 'Βοήθεια' not defined" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22332412:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 221781 in scrollkeeper "scrollkeeper crashes during upgrade and causes maintainer script failures for various packages" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22178112:58
loolIf not, I think I'll just close 223324 and point at the other bug in a comment12:59
pochulool: not that I know of from Launchpad, but maybe bdmurray has a script to do it with python-launchpad-bugs13:00
pochuI think I heard about such a script in the past13:01
james_whttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2008-March/000800.html I mean13:02
looljames_w: Thanks13:04
loolIt looks like I should spend some time to clean it up and integrate with u-d-t13:05
seb128is there anybody working on freetype in ubuntu or talking to upstream sometimes?13:06
seb128bug #277294 has quite some duplicate13:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 277294 in freetype "evince crashed with SIGFPE, trying to seek in KXTGA930.PDF" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27729413:07
seb128doko_: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/freetype-devel/2008-08/msg00023.html indicates that could be a gcc issue, could you perhaps investigate this one?13:07
Keybukmdz: just to confirm something13:27
Keybukmdz: /etc/udev/rules.d is basically empty on your box, right?13:27
mvoKeybuk: upgrade is running, it will be finished in ~30min13:31
sorenI'm working on a new package. It's somewhat lacking in the clear licensing area.  Only a select few source files specify the license, there's no "top level" license file or anything (the few source files with licensing information correctly state the copyright holder and references the Apache license).13:36
sorenI'm curious what the minimum to ask them to add would be for it to be acceptable for us.13:37
sorenI suspect this is not uncommon, so perhaps someone has already written up a template bug text for this sort of thing?13:37
Keybukgenerally a top-level licence is enough13:43
Keybukbut that licence will likely say each source file should have a reference to it too13:43
cjwatsonmissing licences from individual source files is a widespread failure/practice (depending on your POV)13:43
cjwatsonthe GPL just says that it's "safest" to add notices to each source file, not that you must13:44
cjwatsonI think the idea there is that if you don't, people might rip out an individual file and say that they didn't know about its licence13:45
mok0cjwatson: It's an exception that people do it13:45
mok0cjwatson: exactly13:45
cjwatsonmok0: I wouldn't go that far but it certainly isn't anywhere near universal13:45
Keybukwe still permit such things in the archive though13:45
cjwatsonI have never heard of a legal basis for saying that a top-level licence wouldn't apply to the other files13:45
mok0The problem is: if just a couple of files are missing license clause, is it because upstream forgot, or did he rip the file off somebody13:46
ograthough if you want your package to enter debian at some point you better add a license note to each single file :)13:46
cjwatsona judge would not be looking at the individual files; he/she would be looking at the whole thing, and if there's a top-level file that says "everything in this package is under licence foo", then you'd have a pretty damn hard time persuading the judge otherwise13:46
mok0ogra: is that a requirement for Debian?13:47
ogramok0, not sure, but i had a bunch of packages i had to work on, even if its not, you will drown in a bunch of bugs about it there13:47
cjwatsonDebian's ftpmasters will complain about inconsistent licences of course, but I've never heard of them complaining about missing licence statements in individual source files13:47
cjwatsonand I would be extremely surprised if they did13:47
mok0cjwatson: I've done a ton of reviews, and I rarely see the license clauses included properly13:48
ograno, its rather the self declared debian license police that pokes you with bugs about it :)13:48
cjwatsonsome Ubuntu archive administrators have got into the habit of complaining about that, and personally I think it is substantial overkill13:48
sorencjwatson: Ok. So if I ask them to add the Apache license to the tarball and have them put a file that said who the copyright holder is and references the Apache license, that would acceptable?13:48
cjwatsonsoren: yes, I'd say so13:48
sorencjwatson: Lovely. Thanks!13:49
mok0I've been telling uploaders that without a license file in orig.tar.gz, we can't distribute the package13:50
mok0I've also told them to _attempt_ to get upstream to add clauses to indiv. file13:50
cjwatsonyes, you clearly must have some statement of the licence in the tarball13:50
cjwatsonactually, I think it's permissible to get an e-mail clarification from upstream and to put that in debian/copyright, pending a new upstream release13:50
cjwatsonI have done that myself in the past13:50
mok0cjwatson: that's a good idea13:51
iahello. i use alpha-3 with latest updates. http://www.markshuttleworth.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/jaunty904_notifications_example1_web_092.swf - this notification system looks very useful, but how can view it in action? i mean, which apps and what kind of events supports such notifications? and technical question - it's just some impove of notification-daemon, or something else? and where i can find out, which api's in which languages allow to initiate s13:52
iauch notifications? i will be very appreciate for any useful information :-)13:52
cjwatsonia: that's work in progress, not (as far as I know) yet in jaunty13:54
iacjwatson: oh, right. just in some news they tells, that it's already can be seen in work :-)13:54
iahowever, how do you think, it's some layer over notification-daemon, or some brand new notification system? if second, then how it names?13:58
cjwatsonia: no idea, sorry14:03
mvoKeybuk: during my upgrade test in kvm I got no udevd started message (except for one) and the /dev/null permissions look ok too - that was a default ubuntu-desktop base-image that I used for the test14:06
superm1cjwatson, jharr yes i didn't realize that jharr was building a chroot. thanks for the extra comments14:06
=== davmor2 is now known as davmor2-away
looljames_w, pochu: Pushed new lp-set-dup script in ubuntu-dev-tools14:52
james_wlool: cool, did you port it to lplib? :-)14:54
james_wah, nice, thanks14:55
pochulool: in the end, bug 78596 should be fixed, but for the meantime that'll be useful :)14:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 78596 in malone "Automatically handle moving duplicates across when duplicating a bug with dupes" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/7859614:56
loolpochu: Agreed14:56
looljames_w, pochu: BTW happy to get any review14:56
looljpds: Hey I pushed some 3/4 ubuntu-dev-tools changes; I'd like to upload the package, but would love you to have a look to check I didn't break anything; how are you building the package?  debuild -i good enough?14:58
james_wlool: looks pretty good to me. Would it be better to do the obvious thing if I request a bug be duplicated against a bug that is already a duplicate of something else?15:00
james_wthough the rarity of that situation and the added complexity of doing a check for circular references may not be worth it15:00
tkamppeterpitti, back to the foomatic-filters 4.0.0 SRU, all changes (see newest changelog entry in Jaunty package) are bug fixes, and for me it looks like that all are regressions against Hardy. And the Infinite loop when supplying a page range is even a security vulneribility, as a user can block the printing system by sending a job with page-specific option setting.15:01
tkamppeterpitti, every fix by itself is a small patch (up to 10 modified lines), only the modification to fix the infinite loop is somewhat bigger.15:02
looljames_w: I preferred failing and offering the good command line to run15:03
pittitkamppeter: do we have some LP bugs which correspond to the changes? please use those for the SRU15:03
looljames_w: (just need to copy paste the suggested command line)15:03
james_wyeah, it's sensible, but a tool telling you *exactly* what to run is normally pretty bad UI15:03
james_wthe safety check may justify it though15:04
tkamppeterpitti, for the two items mmarked appropriately in the debian/changelog, yes, I can at least add another one for the infinite loop vulnerability.15:04
looljames_w: I didn't want to autofix it, but I guess I could prompt to ack the change and proceed indeed15:04
james_wthat could work15:05
liwwhat's the proper way of asking for an application to be included in the default Ubuntu desktop install?15:05
pochulool: on line 52, suggestion is unused, isn't it?15:06
pochuas you're dying in the next line without using it15:06
loolpochu: ah thanks, forgot to drop a die() on line 5315:06
loolpochu: (fixed)15:07
looljames_w: I implemented prompting to use the duplicate of main bug15:16
james_wthanks lool, you rock15:17
loolEh thanks for the good comments15:17
tkamppeterpitti, I have reported the infinite loop problem as bug #31881615:19
ubottuBug 318816 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/318816 is private15:20
tkamppeterpitti, I have also reported bug 318818 now.15:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 318818 in foomatic-filters "Intrepid fails LSB 3.2 tests on foomatic-filters" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31881815:28
pittitkamppeter: is the lsb failure actually something to worry about? it's not something SRU worthy per se15:29
tkamppeterpitti, I do not know how important LSB failures are considered at Ubuntu. Therefore I reported that. Most important is the infinite loop, and all the rest can be considered as regressions against Hardy.15:30
=== bluesmoke is now known as Amaranth
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek to start in #ubuntu-classroom in 17 minutes15:43
NCommanderDktrKranz, ping15:55
cjwatsonpitti: can you have a look at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/21351698/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.glib2.0_2.19.5-0ubuntu1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz ? It looks as if pkgstriptranslations is running twice in parallel on the same package, and the result is a corrupted translations tarball (which is crashing the publisher, which is how we noticed it)15:55
apwpitti, apport -- when a report is generated i assume its the reporting script's reposinsibility to prevent a double trigger of the report?15:57
=== davmor2-away is now known as davmor2
grndslmcould somebody please unban me from #ubuntu....  i made one funny ha ha and somebody screamed for the ops15:59
pittiapw: double trigger? if you mean it triggers while you are still writing it: you need to create it as 000, write it completely, and then chmod it to 60016:00
pitticjwatson: looking16:00
cjwatsongrndslm: this isn't an escalation channel - go to #ubuntu-ops, please16:00
grndslmk thanks16:00
apwno i mean if i find file /foo and that is my trigger, when i converted that into a spool file, i assume it is _my_ responsibility to remove /foo as well16:01
pitticjwatson: ugh, how weird; I don't have an offhand idea, I need to try and reproduce this in a chroot16:02
pittiapw: it could be done in the apport init script if you don't need it any more for other purposes16:02
apwmy worry is if we don't will we not file the same bug every boot from then on16:04
tkamppeterpitti, I have added everything for the foomatic-filters SRU to bug 318816 now (you are subscribed to it) and nominated the bug 303691, bug 299918, and bug 318818 for Intrepid.16:04
ubottuBug 318816 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/318816 is private16:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 303691 in foomatic-filters "Intrepid, print broken with Minolta PagePro 8L printer" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30369116:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 299918 in foomatic-filters "Cannot print duplex in intrepid with Ricoh Aficio 2060, Ricoh Aficio MPC3000 or Brother HL-4050cdn using the openprinting drivers" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29991816:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 318818 in foomatic-filters "Intrepid fails LSB 3.2 tests on foomatic-filters" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31881816:05
apwpitti, ahh we do remove it anyhow, good16:05
jharrcjwatson: thx for the help. I now realize that with binfmt-support. Somewhere along the line /usr/bin/perl was fine in the chroot, but perceus builds a cpio archive (which was fine) but the kernel apparently has issues decompressing cpio archives that have hardlinked files in them.16:06
cjwatsonjharr: the *kernel* - are you sure? that should be entirely userspace and using only very common syscalls16:06
jharrcjwatson: perl was ending up as a zeroed file.16:06
cjwatsonif link(2) is failing you have pretty bad problems!16:06
cjwatsonsure, you described the symptoms earlier; I was questioning your attribution of the cause to the kernel16:07
jharrcjwatson: the cpio archive was the initrd.16:07
cjwatsonah, I see16:07
cjwatsonyou have perl in your initrd?16:07
jharrcjwatson: yeah, perceus is a tool to pxeboot stateless clusters.16:08
apwjharr, can't you remove the links in there, and remake them after boot (if the kernel support is inadequate)16:09
cjwatsonjharr: scary. just make them symlinks then, I suppose16:09
jharrcjwatson: There are several things that could go wrong in between. I won't attribute it to a kernel bug, but I'm going to continue on in my work until I have time to poke around at that specific issue...16:09
cjwatsonwell, no, if it's in the initrd you're probably right, that's unpacked entirely in kernelspace16:09
jharrI do just remove the links for now.16:10
* ogra wonders where to find more infor about a debootstrap error ...16:11
ograW: Failure trying to run: chroot / dpkg --force-depends --install16:11
ograseems to break at the beginning of the second stage16:11
pittithekorn: with p-lp-bugs, can I get the bug's original description somehow?16:12
cjwatsonogra: /debootstrap/debootstrap.log in the chroot (probably; find -name debootstrap.log)16:12
ograwell, the prob is that its not a chroot and i cant get that log easily16:12
ograits http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/arm/build-arm-rootfs16:13
cjwatsonthere is a bug about the lack of feedback there16:13
ograwrapping the second stage into qemu16:13
ograand its not my error, but a users16:13
cjwatsonogra: upgrade debootstrap to the current version in jaunty16:13
cjwatsonI fixed that very bug last week16:13
ograi dont want him to upload his 4G image :)16:13
thekornpitti: you mean without removed whitespaces?16:13
thekornpitti: .description_raw16:13
cjwatson(or tell the user to do so; whatever)16:13
ograoh, he might be running it on intrepid16:14
pittithekorn: no, that's not the originally filed one16:14
thekornpitti: ok, got it now, no you cannot16:14
cjwatsonsee the debootstrap 1.0.10ubuntu2 changelog; the command was supposed to be 'chroot / dpkg --force-depends --install libc6' but the variable that expands to 'libc6' wasn't being set in --second-stage mode16:14
pittithekorn: bug 315728, someone added stuff below the apport data16:14
ubottuLaunchpad bug 315728 in xserver-xorg-video-radeonhd "[RV610] Xorg crashed with SIGSEGV in xf86InitViewport() (Testing Jaunty)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31572816:14
pittithekorn: and in the middle of apport data there are empty lines16:15
looldirecthex: Hey, I heard you're working on the C# transition which affects f-spot, beagle, tomboy in the default install; it's been some days that these prevent upgrades; is there a bug for whatever blocks progress right now?16:18
thekornpitti: if you need it, file a bug, I'm happy to add .original_description, should not be hard16:18
thekornor use launchpadlib, it's bug.messages[0] there16:19
pittithekorn: I think I'll just try and work around it, since i need to add some code to deal with the empty lines anyway; then it'll also work in stable versions16:19
pittithekorn: launchpadlib> can't yet, due to firewall restrictions on the DC host :(16:19
|ntegra|I have an idea for ubuntu, but I am not a programmer16:23
cjwatsonbrainstorm.ubuntu.com is the place you want, then16:24
|ntegra|thanx cjwatson16:24
DktrKranzNCommander: (late) pong16:27
NCommanderDktrKranz, what's the status of dietlibc in Ubuntu?16:28
DktrKranzNCommander: I had some tests on i386 and amd64, those archs are in good shape. I have some doubts about sparc and ppc, though and I have no hardware to test.16:29
NCommanderDktrKranz, I'm looking at ARM ATM16:30
NCommanderIt cores when built with DEBUG=0, but works when built with DEBUG=116:30
DktrKranzit's probably related to stack protector16:30
* NCommander tries removing that16:31
NCommanderDktrKranz, ARM EABI support only exists in CVS HEAD, whats your feelings on going to a CVS version?16:32
DktrKranzthere were some commits since current version, some interesting ones for ARM, IIRC16:33
jpdslool: Everything looks OK to me, I build the package by copying it to /tmp, rm -rf .bzr there and debuild -S -sa.16:33
DktrKranzNCommander: if you want, I can prepare a snapshot upload, have you some PPC hardware to test it? I'd like to readd stack protector support16:38
NCommanderDktrKranz, I can give you a shell on my PowerPC box16:38
DktrKranzNCommander: that's would be awesome16:39
looljpds: Ok; I think you could use "debuild -i -S -sa" instead to skip the copying step if you like; -i will also ignore .bzrignore which is why I was asking how you do it16:39
NCommanderDktrKranz, if I do the same on my ARM box, can I get working ARM support :-)?16:39
DktrKranzNCommander: I can give it a try16:39
DktrKranzjust prepare me a chroot/pbuilder16:40
NCommanderWell, I'm building diet ATM with -fno-stack-protector to see if I still get a core dump16:40
NCommanderI think its a problem with -Os16:40
jpdslool: I don't know what -i does, can't find it in the manpages..16:43
looljpds: It's a dpkg-buildpackage falg16:44
loolWhich tells it to use its default exclusion res16:44
looljpds: Sorry, I was actually hinting at the wrong flag: it's -I16:44
lool(I actually pass -i -I via ~/.devscripts)16:44
apwpitti, i am trying to test this apport stuff and when i respond to the '*' on the task bar, i get as far as submitting the thing and it tries to send my browser to file:///ubuntu/+source/linux/...16:45
apwthat sounds wrongo16:45
jpdslool: Oh, neat. Feel free to upload when you want.16:46
looljpds: done16:47
apwpitti, also when it took me to launchpad it didn't have a title set and as i'd not been told anything much about the bug i might not have had a clue what to put in that box?16:48
jpdslool: Thanks! :)16:48
looljpds: BTW I keep getting this on upgrades:16:48
looldpkg : ubuntu-dev-tools : avertissement - le conffile « /etc/bash_completion.d/pbuilder-dist » n'est ni un vrai fichier ni un lien (= « /etc/bash_completion.d/pbuilder-dist »)16:49
lool(file is neither a real file nor a symlink)16:49
loolAnd indeed it's a directory16:49
pittiapw: curious, mdz sent me a similar problem today; I'll look into it16:49
jpdslool: OK... I personally don't use bash, I think \sh wrote that.16:49
looljpds: I don't use bash either, but I get this while installing hte package16:50
loolIn the package I see:16:50
lool-rw-r--r-- root/root       919 2008-08-18 11:54 ./etc/bash_completion.d/pbuilder-dist16:50
loolBut on my system it's a dir16:50
loolProbably since:16:51
lool  * debian/ubuntu-dev-tools.install: install bash_completion/pbuilder-dist in16:51
lool    /etc/bash_completion.d/ instead of /etc/bash_completion.d/pbuilder-dist/16:51
loolPresumably this required some preinst on upgrades which was forgotten16:51
apwpitti, how does apport decide to push some information into the main body, or as an attachment?16:54
pittiapw: if it's text, and < 5 lines, it gets into description, otherwise attachment16:55
* pitti -> dinner16:55
looljpds: Could you check out the preinst snippet I added?  Not perfectly pretty, but couldn't find a way to have it much cleaner but still safe17:05
looljpds: Works for me on upgrades; not that I get a conffile merge prompt because I upgaded across multiple versions without really getting the new conffile17:05
jpdslool: Looks OK; I personally have it installed as a file... no idea where the dir came in.17:07
looljpds: For people upgrading between the time the error was introduced and the time it was fixed17:11
mdzKeybuk: re: CVE-2008-4311, which releases are affected?17:12
Keybukmdz: all, ever17:12
looljpds: pushed tagged updated changelog for next version uploaded17:13
mdzKeybuk: ah, I skimmed over the bit that said it was believed not to be exploitable17:14
Keybukmdz: right17:14
mdzKeybuk: so no action is needed in stable releases, but we should fix things up going forward in Jaunty?17:14
Keybukso D-Bus was passing messages by default, instead of denying them17:14
Keybukbut it turns out that's basically ok, since most messages should have been allowed17:14
Keybukand the few services that have privileged messages actually took care to deny them to other people anyway17:14
Keybuk(which implies they tested their policy, found they got through, added the deny rules ... and didn't think to ask anybody why that worked when it shouldn't have :p)17:15
Keybukso we can breathe a bit of a sigh of relief, and just fix things going forwards17:15
jpdslool: Thanks for the fix.17:16
loolthanks for the review17:17
tseliotKeybuk: ok, point taken ;)17:20
tseliotKeybuk: about fixing apps which rely on dbus e.g. my policykit stuff17:21
Keybuktseliot: you fixed your ages ago ;)17:21
tseliotKeybuk: in Jaunty, it wasn't uploaded to Intrepid though.17:22
Keybuktseliot: shouldn't need to be aiui17:22
apwpitti, i have proposed a branch for merging to apport, does that get to you direct?17:23
doko_pitti: which package should bug #318507 be assigned to?17:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 318507 in glibc "Wrong first day of week for "C" locale" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31850717:24
Keybukis that a bug?17:25
Keybuksurely C has no specific first day of the week?17:25
apwi think the complaint is that the result has changed between intrepid and januty not that it is one day or another17:27
pittidoko_: isn't C defined in libc6?17:27
apwand cirtainly that appears to be true here too17:29
ScottKpitti: Is there a web resource for "I want my package to use apport when it crashes, what do I need to know."?17:29
* ScottK has an upstream he's hoping to get to do it.17:29
doko_pitti: ahh, ok, yes for C17:29
pittiapw: in theory I should have gotten a merge request mailed, but I didn't17:31
pittidoko_: all 'real' locales are in langpack-locales source17:31
doko_urgh, we don't apply Debian's localedata patches ...17:32
Keybukthere should be a locale that gives you randomly undefined results ;)17:32
pittiScottK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport is the "homepage" with some further links17:32
ScottKpitti: Thanks.17:32
pittiScottK: and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport/DeveloperHowTo is probably closer to what you are looking for17:32
cjwatsonKeybuk: POSIX 2008 doesn't define "first day of week" at all. That said Saturday is probably a silly choice anyway17:43
=== Omegamoon is now known as Omegamoon|away
Keybukcjwatson: exactly ;)  it shouldn't be possible to display a calendar in the C locale17:47
Keybuksince there are no defined names for weekdays, and certainly no defined start of the week :p17:47
cjwatsonKeybuk: it doesn't define "first day of week" for any other locale either, and actually there are defined names for weekdays in C17:47
Keybukbut then I'm old fashioned about strictly following standards <g>17:48
MithrandirKeybuk: does it just omit names and start of week, or does it explicitly say "day names and first day of week is undefined in the C locale"?17:48
cjwatsonday        "<S><u><n><d><a><y>";"<M><o><n><d><a><y>";\17:48
cjwatson           "<T><u><e><s><d><a><y>";"<W><e><d><n><e><s><d><a><y>";\17:48
cjwatson           "<T><h><u><r><s><d><a><y>";"<F><r><i><d><a><y>";\17:48
cjwatson           "<S><a><t><u><r><d><a><y>"17:48
cjwatsonetc., in the POSIX locale17:48
cjwatsonMithrandir: it defines day names, and omits any mention of first day of week entirely (that's a glibc extension, I think)17:49
Mithrandirso it's perfectly legal to choose any day, then? :-)17:49
KeybukSingle Unix extension, apparently17:49
Keybukcjwatson: it doesn't necessarily follow that the POSIX locale only contains what's in the POSIX specification ;)17:53
cjwatsonKeybuk: sure, but you said "there are no defined names for weekdays" :-)17:53
Keybukdefined in the spec ;)17:53
cjwatsonI'm deeply confused. They are defined in the spec.17:53
cjwatsonthere's a bit of a difference between the POSIX locale having some extras, and it not having stuff that the spec says it has17:55
KeybukI did not think there was a spec for the C locale ;)17:55
cjwatson'The strings "C" and "POSIX" are reserved as identifiers for the POSIX locale'17:55
cjwatsonchapter 7 of Base Definitions17:56
Keybukfair enough17:56
* Keybuk stands in the corrected corner17:56
affluxthe retracer seems to just have closed a crash bug of mine, which is perfectly alright, since I can't reproduce this anyway. The only problem I see here is that I reported this bug more then a month ago, and since then, the package got updated, and with it obviously the debug symbol packages.18:21
affluxI'm not sure whether this really was intended, so I thought it might be worth it letting you know.18:22
Notch-1hi, please take a look here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/31882118:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 318821 in casper "reboot issue in persistent/casper mode" [Undecided,New]18:39
doko_cjwatson: fix for 235070 uploaded using the patch from intrepid18:59
=== rmcbride_ is now known as rmcbride
directhexwho feels like giving https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nant/+bug/318683 a tickle?19:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 318683 in nant "Please sync nant 0.85.dfsg1-6 (main) from Debian experimental (main)." [Undecided,New]19:21
idnzorhi, i was wondering if someone could help me out with contact information19:40
idnzori wanted to start contributing my user experience expertise to the ubuntu project19:40
idnzori work for a user experience consultancy as a usability analyst, and want to start working outside of work on ubuntu/gnome based projects to give something back to the community19:40
james_widnzor: that's great. The ubuntu-desktop list may be a good place to start to discuss Ubuntu/GNOME usability19:42
idnzorjames_w: thanks, i posted the same above on there, however, i am just waiting for a response19:43
james_wthe channel, or the mailing list?19:43
idnzorthe channel19:44
idnzorwould you recommend the ubuntu-desktop mailing as well then?19:45
james_wyeah, an email is more lasting, so you don't need the right people to be looking at the channel right now19:46
idnzorok thanks, i will look into it19:48
james_wtedg: you're up!20:02
tedgjames_w: Oh, I thought I was in an hour...20:03
james_w'fraid not20:03
NCommanderBTW, random question, does anyone know a good IRC proxy?20:11
maxbIf you like irssi, it can be a proxy itself, at the same time as being a client.20:12
Ape3000I use irssi as proxy and Xchat as the visible client20:17
asacTheMuso: what - in theory - needs to be done in jaunty to get my line-in directed to my speakers ;)?20:24
ograyou take a soldering iron ... some wire ...20:25
* ogra definately did to much ARM HW enablement the recent time 20:27
asacam i supposed to be in pulse-rt group or something?20:28
ogra"For enabling real-time/high-priority scheduling please acquire the appropriate PolicyKit privileges" heh ... come to our shop at www.policykit-addons-for-cheap-money.com :)20:31
asacTheMuso: am i supposed to be in pulse-* groups?20:40
=== spm_ is now known as spm
DTeeHi would any developers be willing to answer some questions to help with my FInal Year Dissertation?20:55
DTeeIt won't take long.20:56
TheMusoasac: Depends on the card. It has nothing to do with pulseaudio. You need to adjust the line mixer levels in the alsa mixer.21:15
TheMusomdz_: Daniel T Chen aka crimsun committed a fix for that in bzr yesterday, which I uploaded. Latest alsa-utils should fix that issue, and yes its a well reported bug.21:16
mdz_TheMuso: ok, thanks21:16
asacTheMuso: i have HDA NVidia Realtek ALC88321:28
TheMusoasac: Right, you will have to load alsamixer and fiddel with the line mixer, unmuting where necessary.21:28
asacTheMuso: is there a way to reset alsamixer to default?21:29
TheMusoasac: sudo alsactl restore should do it21:29
TheMusomaybe sudo is not needed, but I think it is.21:29
asacTheMuso: doesnt complain if i dont pass it21:30
superm1that won't necessarily set it to defaults, but more so to the last set of recorded values wouldn't it?21:30
asacTheMuso: interestingly i wasnt in pulse-rt group .... when were i supposed to be added there?21:30
TheMusoasac: You aren't added to that by default, and for the most part its not needed for average use.21:31
asacTheMuso: hmm ... before i added myself i had no sound at all21:31
TheMusosuperm1: Yes thats right. I think alsactl init will reset values, however you may want to use sudo /etc/init.d/alsa-utils reset21:31
* asac tries to remove himself again21:31
asachmm ... gstreamer-properties hangs when testing pulsesrc21:34
TheMusoasac: Which one exactly?21:35
asacTheMuso: the default. (just reads pulsesrc)21:36
TheMusoasac: Is this for input or output?21:36
asacTheMuso: input21:36
TheMusoah ok21:36
TheMusoasac: have you got a capture device set in the alsa mixer?21:37
asacTheMuso: i try to get my line-in on my speakery :(21:37
asacTheMuso: let me double check21:37
TheMusoasac: Ok, your board's hda code implementatino may not be set entrely correct, or have you gotten line in to work before?21:37
asacTheMuso: i have two captures: Line and Mic21:37
asacTheMuso: i cant really remember if it ever worked :/21:38
TheMusoasac: Right. In alsamixer's capture mode, you can set one of 3 capture sources, or at least thats what mine has. The sources can be set either to line, mic, or front mic.21:38
TheMusoBut you can still only capture from one source at a time.21:38
asacTheMuso: ok. let me try to plug in a mic21:39
asacto see if its really just line not working21:39
asacTheMuso: so if is push up Mic Boost, i can here my voice ;) ... thats good. but capturing source doesnt have any influence at all for that21:43
TheMusoasac: Right, is the word capture displayed under any of the sources?21:44
asacTheMuso: only thing i have is two CAPTURE channels, but thats not it, right?21:45
TheMusoasac: Well if it works anythinglike mine, you can select which source you want, either mic, line, etc. Pressing space bar on one of those should enable it for capture.21:46
asaclet me check21:46
asacboth had CAPTURE21:47
TheMusoasac: What are you using that is plugged into line in?21:48
TheMusoasac: and in the playback sectino of alsamixer, is line unmuted?21:48
asacTheMuso: so if i go to the "Capture" view of alsamixer i see 7 things (from left to right): front mic, mic boost, capture, capture 1, digital, Input Source, Input Source 121:49
asacTheMuso: currently only the first "capture" has a red CAPTURE above it21:49
TheMusoasac: Ok, you want to go to input source, and choose line.21:49
asacTheMuso: problem is that input source has no influence whatsoever ... unless i mute the "Mic", i can hear the mic21:50
asacTheMuso: atm, both input source things have "Line" ... still mic is working21:51
TheMusoasac: Right. Go back to the playback sectino of alsamixer, and check the line level, and check if its unmuted.21:51
asacTheMuso: line in playback section is unmuted (i see 00) and has 100/100 level21:52
asacTheMuso: i have a PS3 connected to line-in ;)21:52
TheMusoasac: Right, and you are sure its currently playing audio?21:52
asacTheMuso: pretty sure. a demo is running21:55
TheMusoasac: Ok.21:55
asacTheMuso: anyway, dont want to bother you with this. only thing i dont understand is that if i select "Line" for all input sources in alsamixer, the mic is still working21:55
TheMusoWell if line is unmuted and set to full volume, and input source is set to line and capture is enabled and you still get nothing, theres something up somewhere?21:56
broonieIt's perfectly normal for hardware to be able to mix multiple inputs together so having to mute others isn't that surprising.21:56
TheMusoasac: Hearing the mic will always be possible. Even though you can hear the mic, you can't necessarily record it unless the options in the capture are set so you can.21:56
asacbroonie: so you say i should mute everything else?21:58
asacTheMuso: one last thing. i see hw:0,2 in alsasrc command ... where do those numbers come from?21:59
TheMusoasac: 0 is the card number, and 2 is the subdevice.22:00
asacTheMuso: ok. where does that subdevice number come from ;)?22:00
TheMusoasac: As it stands, I can't help but think that the hda chip on your board is not known properly. Could you either check to see if an existing bug report exists for your board, and if not, file one and assign ubuntu-audio? Then run http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-info.sh and post the URL in the bug?22:00
TheMusoasac: THis will help track down the proper information for the hda chip, and I can check upstrea for any patches etc.22:01
TheMusoasac: THe number of devices on the card, I don't really understand that bit a great deal yet, in terms of alsa.22:01
TheMusoasac: np22:02
cjwatsondoko_: thanks22:04
LaserJockanybody have an obvious reason why Xephyr would be unacceptable for Main?22:06
asacTheMuso: file against what package?22:07
directhexLaserJock, what's the sales pitch FOR it being canonical-supoprted?22:07
TheMusoasac: linux, and assign ubuntu-audio22:07
LaserJockdirecthex: because it's better than Xnest?22:07
directhexreasonable argument ;)22:08
cjwatsonLaserJock: so, with the Edubuntu task renaming you did, there is currently no way to prevent those packages having Task: edubuntu-edubuntu-desktop22:09
cjwatsonand tasksel will have to change accordingly22:09
cjwatsonLaserJock: I don't suppose you want to think up a different name?22:09
LaserJockgood lord22:09
cjwatsonotherwise I have to get Launchpad patched ...22:09
LaserJockis it just edubuntu-desktop that's the problem?22:10
LaserJockcan I name it like desktop-gnome for instance and it'd be ok?22:10
cjwatsonevery task in the edubuntu seeds gets "edubuntu-" prefixed22:10
cjwatsonso desktop-gnome would be fine (and likewise edubuntu-desktop-kde -> desktop-kde)22:11
broonieasac: It'll probably help.22:11
cjwatsonarguably more descriptive than the present name too22:11
asacTheMuso: ok its 31898522:12
TheMusoasac: Ok thanks, if assigned to ubuntu-audio I'll get it in my bugmail.22:12
LaserJockcjwatson: ok, since we're trying to do a bit more DE-neutral stuff by having both a gnome and kde variant it's maybe best all around to do desktop-gnome and desktop-kde22:16
LaserJockI'm not sure I want to mess with transitioning edubuntu-desktop .deb to something better for Jaunty though22:18
LaserJockbut for the seeds anyway it makes sense22:18
=== CaptainMorgan is now known as CaptainHacker
calchow do i enable nvidia driver in jaunty?22:44
calci thought it was via system->hardware drivers but that just pulls up a completely empty dialog22:45
raofcalc: There'll be the small problem that you'll need to edit xorg.conf & disable ABI checking before they'll work22:46
calcraof: oh it doesn't work currently due to the transition to xorg 1.6?22:46
raofcalc: The driver works, mostly.  You just need to mess with the config.  The Hardware Drivers thing doesn't work for (at least) that reason.22:53
* calc also isn't too impressed by the new castrated audio setup22:54
* calc hopes his headset still works properly or he may need to switch to something other than Gnome22:54
directhexi could do with jaunty on my myth box. no hdmi audio from intrepid22:54
cjwatsonLaserJock: yeah, just the seeds will be fine. Thanks!22:54
directhexor i could just compile my own alsa...22:54
* calc plugs his usb headset in and sees what happens22:55
calclooks sane enough, but no way to test anything anymore22:56
calcand it appears to be able to change the volume you now have to change the output in gnome to that device, which is insane22:58
TheMusocalc: Yeah there have been complaints about the new volume control only controlling pulseaudio. This is not my area, I just maintain the infrastructure underneath. See recent warthogs discussion.22:59
calcso eg i'm talking on voip and want gnome to play audio from apps through speakers, but voip via the headset to adjust the headset i have to route the gnome audio through the headset now, or resort to using alsamixer/alsactl22:59
calcTheMuso: ok22:59
* calc wonders what pulse buys us that dmix doesn't?23:00
calcother than more bugs23:00
TheMusocalc: Being able to move your VOIP output from speakers to your headset without restarting the VOIP application.23:01
TheMusofor one23:01
calcTheMuso: but thats not really a feature thats a bug ;-)23:01
TheMusocalc: Being able to send audio over the network to another machine.23:01
TheMusocalc: How is that a bug?23:01
RainCT_TheMuso: is the application specific volume stuff also from PulseAudio?23:01
calcTheMuso: to be able to adjust the audio for voip it does that regardless if you want it to or not :-\23:01
RainCT_or was that also possible with ALSA?23:01
TheMusoRainCT_: app specific audio volume control is pulse23:02
calcnetwork audio has been around a long time, just no one used the apis for it23:02
RainCT_finally it's useful for something :P23:02
calcat least a decade iirc23:02
=== RainCT_ is now known as RainCT
TheMusocalc: Yeah but again you can move it over the network transparently without stopping it.23:02
calcah ok23:02
calcTheMuso: this is all in theory of course as ubuntu doesn't install any of the support to actually do it (or does it now?)23:03
TheMusocalc: The volume control applet is supposed to either have it, or be getting it, so far as I know. I could be wrong however.23:03
raofThe "Choose a device for sound output" radio buttons should actually switch (a) the default output for new streams, and (b) all the current streams.  It doesn't do that now.23:04
raofI presume it will before release, otherwise it's just a big UI lie.23:04
directhexanyone wanna  buy a hardware-mixed audigy? :p23:05
* TheMuso shudders. Audigy cards have a shocking chip in them.23:09
TheMusoYes they can do hardware mixing, but they internally resample to 48KHz.23:10
TheMusonick TheMuso23:10
TheMusowrong window23:10
directhexTheMuso, audigy 2, then.23:12
TheMusodirecthex: RIght, I am not sure what chip those cards have.23:16
directhexTheMuso, ca0102.23:19
TheMusoMeans nothign to me.23:19

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