seb128hum, I'm wondering why it's working before your change and not after though00:00
seb128does it fallback to something else when it doesn't find gnome-wm to use?00:00
chrisccoulsonit probably started because it because it was in the autostart folder before00:01
chrisccoulsonthis change moves it away from the autostart folder, as gnome-session doesn't look there for the required services00:02
seb128ah right00:02
chrisccoulsonthe launchers for the panel and nautilus, which are required, are all in /usr/share/applications00:02
seb128what is weird is that setting this key to compiz doesn't work00:03
seb128but that's probably a compiz bug00:03
chrisccoulsoncompiz needs to ship a launcher with X-GNOME-Provides=windowmanager for it to work00:03
seb128it does00:03
seb128there is a /usr/share/applications/compiz.desktop00:03
seb128and it was working when I switched my config to use compiz00:04
chrisccoulsonhmmm, not sure why that doesn't work00:04
seb128which was before gnome-wm.desktop in the intrepid cycle00:04
seb128there might be something in the .desktop that confuses gnome-session00:04
chrisccoulsonpossibly. setting that key to compiz on my intrepid machine seems to work ok00:05
chrisccoulsonthe problem is with that configuration is that both gnome-wm and compiz will be executed at some point00:05
seb128it should run only what is in the required_component key no?00:06
chrisccoulsonwith the current setup, gnome-wm will always run as it ships in the autostart folder00:06
seb128ie, gnome-wm on a default install00:06
seb128but compiz if you change the key00:06
seb128right, I was speaking about your version00:06
chrisccoulsonit runs regardless of the gconf key at the moment. or at least it should do i think00:06
chrisccoulsonah yeah, it shouldn't do that in the new version00:06
seb128I guess I'm one of the only one who changed that key00:07
seb128anyway it's getting late00:07
seb128I'll reset the key, restart my session and upload your revision if that works correctly00:07
seb128we can sort the buggy compiz case later00:07
seb128thanks for the work on that!00:07
chrisccoulsonthanks. i'll try it again here as well just for sanity00:07
seb128chrisccoulson: ok, the desktop entries lacks a type= line00:14
seb128which breaks the compiz start00:14
chrisccoulsonah, that makes sense00:15
seb128that's a compiz bug, not a gnome-session one, I'll upload your change and enough work for today ;-)00:15
seb128and I'll get mvo to fix the compiz issue tomorrow00:15
chrisccoulsonthanks for that:)00:15
chrisccoulsoni've got something i need mvo to do tomorrow too00:15
seb128ok, uploaded and enough work for today, bye00:19
cearleAfter completing an upgrade from hardy to intrepid, the gnome Applications main menu is empty.  Suggestions welcome.05:40
bluesmokecearle: rm ~/.config/menus/applications.menu05:56
cearlethx bluesmoke. will a restart of gnome recreate the file?06:08
bluesmokeno, running alacarte again will06:09
=== hggdh is now known as hggdh|away
cearleaha, alacarte had errors, because there were two "</Menu> <!-- End Applications -->" tags.  Fixed. thx again bluesmoke06:13
cearlesorry, more specifically, in /etc/xdg/menues/applications.menu06:14
slomoseb128: please sync gstreamer0.10, gst-plugins-base0.10, gst0.10-python and gst-plugins-bad0.10 from debian/experimental later :)08:25
seb128slomo: ok08:26
slomoseb128: thanks for syncing vala :)08:40
seb128thank you for doing the update ;-)08:40
huatsmorning everyone09:03
didrocksmonring huats, seb128 & slomo :)09:03
seb128lut huats didrocks09:03
huatsmorning seb128 and didrocks09:03
didrocksseb128: ok, will do the "new new" update tomorrow :)09:03
seb128huats: sorry about yesterday evening but my box crashed on vt switch09:03
seb128didrocks: you seem to be busy, you still want to do it or should I try to find something easier for you and give that one to somebody else?09:04
huatsseb128: sorry for what ?09:04
seb128huats: dunno if you talked to me on IRC, we were speaking about updates and my box crashed and when I came back you had left, so in case you asked something and I didn't reply09:05
huatsnot a pb09:05
huatsI think I just told you that I will do the gnome-system-monitor + deskbar-applet today09:05
huats(and I'll add the gnome-keyring too since there is a new available...)09:06
seb128yes you can09:06
huatsand that's all :)09:06
huatsseb128: may be I have added something like : and later on I'll tackle the anjuta update (but first the main things)09:07
huatsand then I think I said good night :)09:08
huatsso you haven't missed anything important :)09:08
didrocksseb128: no no. I can handle it now that we discussed yesterday :)09:08
seb128I knew there was nothing important, I just didn't want to be rude ;-)09:08
didrocksseb128: that's just I have another dinner with framasoft tonight :)09:08
seb128didrocks: ok, just ask if you need help updating the lpi change, I'm not sure what I said yesterday was clear09:08
didrocksseb128: sorry for the delay :)09:09
huatsseb128: don't start to be like didrocks please... One to stand if more than enough :)09:09
seb128didrocks: that's alright09:09
didrocksseb128: it was clear :)09:09
seb128huats: being what? slacking?09:09
* seb128 runs09:09
huatssarcastic :)09:09
seb128mvo: hey, your compiz.desktop is not correct, gnome-session refuses to use it because it has no type= key09:15
mvoseb128: oh? is that a regression in the jaunty version? or is gnome-session stricter about it now?09:16
seb128mvo: not sure, in intrepid gnome-wm.desktop was installed in the autostart directory and always used in fact and I doubt many users change their gconf key to use compiz rather than gnome-wm by default09:17
seb128mvo: we did fix this bug yesterday and now the gconf key is respect, and I had compiz set there for some reason (I think I changed it early in intrepid when we didn't have gnome-wm.desktop yet)09:18
seb128mvo: anyway setting compiz doesn't work, it complains about the desktop files not being correct due to the lack of type key09:18
seb128mvo: I'm too lazy to boot an intrepid box to check if that's gnome-session stricter or if we just didn't notice the bug before ;-)09:19
vuntz(sorry for the interruption :-))09:19
seb128vuntz: indeed ;-)09:20
crevettehey vuntz09:20
crevettehello seb128  didrocks huats  pitti and slomo09:20
pittihey crevette09:21
huatshey crevette and vuntz09:21
seb128lut crevette09:21
* seb128 kicks xorg09:29
seb128jaunty crashes on user switching, really annoying09:29
seb128crevette: btw do you plan to update your nautilus-sendto upgrade to not use universe?09:33
crevetteseb128, oh yeah I will, sorry, I totally forgot09:43
seb128hate hate hate09:44
seb128mvo: there? I need your bzr clues ;-)09:44
mvoseb128: yes09:45
mvoseb128: sorry, I was distracted a bit09:46
seb128mvo: $ bzr push09:46
seb128bzr: ERROR: No push location known or specified.09:46
seb128I did bzr get using the command apt-get source suggested09:46
seb128did bzr commit09:46
seb128and now try to push the change09:46
seb128what is the magic url to get that working again? ;-)09:46
seb128couldn't we try to get that working out of the box? ;-)09:47
crevettelp:~seb128/yourpackage/ubuntu ?09:47
* crevette does fumb guess09:47
mvoseb128: best is "bzr bind lp:~seb127/../.."09:47
seb128crevette: no, I don't own this packaging so it's not on my username space09:47
mvo(or put it under any ~ you like09:47
seb128mvo: that's gnome-desktop that you put under bzr09:48
mvothe bzr bind will make it behave like a checkout09:48
seb128$ bzr push lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/gnome-desktop/ubuntu09:48
seb128Pushed up to revision 7.09:48
seb128ok, that apparently worked09:49
seb128mvo: can you verify you get that commit on your side?09:49
mvoseb128: sure, give me sec09:50
mvo$ bzr log|head09:50
mvorevno: 709:50
mvocommitter: seb128 <seb128@seb128-laptop>09:50
seb128mvo: ok thanks09:50
* mvo hugs seb12809:50
seb128would be nice to be able to bzr get and bzr commit and bzr push without having to figure what url to use though09:51
* seb128 hugs mvo09:51
seb128any idea how we could fix that?09:51
seb128mvo: ok, next I need to cdbs-edit-patch a patch in this directory, any magic command to do that?09:52
seb128or do I need to unpack the source somewhere, work there and copy the patch back?09:52
mvothere is now "bzr bd-do"09:54
mvoso you run "bzr bd-do 'cdbs-edit-patch patchname'"09:54
mvoand it will do all the magic for you09:54
mvoyou just need to remember when it created a new patch to bzr add it when you are finished09:54
mvoseb128: about the url figuring etc> yeah - if we have a standard for this (we are close I think) we can make use of it09:55
huatspitti: hello09:55
huatsthanks for your comment on the gcalctool SRU I asked09:55
seb128mvo: ok09:56
huatsbut your last comment isn't very clear to me :( can you explain it to me ?09:56
pittihuats: are any/all of the fixed bugs regressions in intrepid, compared to hardy?10:16
huatsoh, you mean if the bug fixed there were regression from hardy.10:18
huatshonneslty I don't know now... I can try to investigate...10:18
huatspitti: I'll let you know...10:20
mvoseb128: compiz fixed10:27
seb128mvo: danke10:27
seb128mvo: ok, I updated gnome-desktop using bzr, that works but disturbe my workflow a lot, it cleans the build directory which breaks my check abi change thing, I've to untar the source somewhere to read the NEWS and diff the configure to see depends change before starting, etc10:28
seb128I'll try to think about how make those tasks easier10:29
mvobzr bd-do (without further arguments) give you a shell10:30
seb128lool: is there several xorg locations in debian? wouldn't it be easier to just patch to use the xorg server location in debian rather than build-depending on xorg only for that?10:30
mvoin the unpacked tree10:30
loolseb128: This is what I noted in the changelog10:30
loolseb128: We should patch it to take an AC_ARG_WITH10:30
mvoyou don't even need to download the tarfile manually, it gets it from the watch file (I love this feature :)10:30
loolBut I'd rather do this after the move to newer gdm10:30
seb128lool: ah, ok, right10:31
seb128lool: for ubuntu I just tweaked the configure10:31
mvoseb128: it does support hooks too, so you could make the abi checker part of the regular build10:32
seb128mvo: right, I noticed, the bd-do trick is a good one ;-)10:32
mvoseb128: i.e. you run bzr-builddeb and it does the check automatically10:32
loolmvo: What about git?10:33
loolSorry just kidding10:33
mvoseb128: [HOOKS]10:34
mvopre-build = ./pre-build.sh10:34
seb128btw if some people want to give an hand on desktop sponsoring today feel free to grab items on the sponsoring page, I did a bunch but there is still some there10:34
seb128mvo: ok, thanks10:34
seb128mvo: I'll try to come with an optimized workflow for desktop packages so it's easier to work on those10:34
mvo(that can be any command, it supports pre-build, post-build and pre-export hooks10:35
seb128mvo: it's not too difficult right now but having to figure what url to use to push changes, how to edit patches, etc is a bit annoying, we should have a clear wiki page about that10:35
mvothe nice thing about the hook and integrating stuff like the abi checker into them is that this way they would be run by anyone messing around^W^Wupdating the package10:36
mvobut its true, its another tool on top of "debhelper, cdbs, quilt, dpatch" that makes packaging more complex :/10:37
seb128having bd-do is a good thing10:38
seb128I was copying directories around before10:38
mvoseb128: yep, give jame_w a hug if you see him, I love it too10:41
Tm_TI think James_w is still sleeping after yesterday10:41
seb128what happened yesterday?10:42
Tm_Tdeveloperweek opening day10:43
pochuhi ember11:53
pochuember: did you read my review?11:53
emberyes i did, thanks11:54
huatspochu: so that you know, I'll take care of the anjuta update12:01
huatsI am just doing before some main stuffs (as recommended by seb)12:01
pochuhuats: alright, let me know if you need anything12:01
huatspochu: sure :)12:01
pochu(including sponsorship) ;)12:01
pochuyw :)12:02
=== davmor2 is now known as davmor2-lunch
huatsseb128: I just gave a look at the libgda update (needed for the anjuta one...), and it requires sqlite >= 3.6.0 (the last stable availble upstream is 3.6.10), while on ubuntu/debian we are stuck no 3.5.9... do you know if it will be updated ?13:11
seb128no idea about that one13:12
seb128I think fta was looking at that too some time ago maybe try asking him about the update13:12
huatsbecause I fear that it is blocking...13:12
huatsfta: hey :)13:12
huatsfta: any idea of the status of the sqlite3 toward the 3.6 branch ?13:13
kagouHi, I'm testing beta of bibble5. Bibble5 is not compiled for 64bits, so I'v installed ia32 and bibble5 is ok. In the last beta libuuid1 is needed, but libuuid1 installed is for x86-64 architecture.13:50
kagouI can not find an elegant way to install the 32bit version of this lib13:51
kagouI'v manually downloaded and manually extracted lib in /lib32 but it's dirty13:51
kagouis there a way to simplify this ?13:51
seb128kagou: hi, wrong channel, you want #ubuntu-devel13:52
kagouseb128, oh13:52
seb128kagou: the desktop team doesn't work on this package and ia32 and libuuid1 are not desktop things either13:52
seb128ie, I've no clue about all that and you will probably get better reply on #ubuntu-devel13:52
=== davmor2-lunch is now known as davmor2
didrocksseb128: I set up a pbuilder and devtools on my server and worked on gnome-games. It builds successfully now :)15:17
seb128didrocks: excellent ;-)15:18
didrocks(what a mess to update a configure script in a pbuilder chroot using quilt)15:18
didrocksI think I will wrote a little thing about it15:18
didrocksseb128: I will report the changes on my bzr branches, look for correct bugs and then test it on my vm15:18
didrocks(but not sure to have the time tonight)15:19
didrocksand also, I will update the desktop team wiki for using bzr (when working on this packaging, I wrote a step by step how-to)15:19
didrockshave a good evening, I have to go to work for... ubuntu-fr now :p15:20
seb128didrocks: you too, thanks!15:22
didrockslastlog gtk15:23
didrocksoupss :)15:23
tedgHas anyone packaged up parasite for Ubuntu?  The screencast looks pretty sweet.15:32
emberparasite looks cool, but they still haven't release a tarball15:36
tedgember: tarballs are for wimps ;)  Hopefully shortly then.15:39
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== hggdh|away is now known as hggdh
ftahuats, no progress i'm afraid. didn't have time to track all the rdeps so i'm using in-source sqlite in all mozilla products, which happens to be what upstream recommends.16:15
huatsfta: ok16:15
huatsfta: if you want we can work together on the rdeps...16:16
huatsit might be a great thing...16:16
huatsand I am sure we can find some people to help out...16:16
rickspencer3Desktop team meeting in 10 minutes16:20
ftahuats, i was secretly expecting debian to work on this, as we alway get the package from them16:25
huatsfta: I see your point :)16:26
huatsbut I think we can wait long for that...16:26
huatsmay be we can work with them together... to fasten a bit the process16:27
Ngtedg: thanks for the pointers yesterday, turned out to be less than three dozen lines of python to listen to NM state changes :)16:28
Ngtedg: now I just need to tackle python threading horror to make it do something useful ;)16:28
tedgNg, heh cool.  I wouldn't use python threading though.  Just use async stuff in Glib.  It'll make your life easier and most users won't notice.16:28
Ngtedg: the idea is that you run this in a terminal and when NM is connected, it runs ssh for you, so I kinda need to spawn stuff and keep track of NM state. I wouldn't have thought I could do that with glib async stuff16:29
rickspencer3hi all16:30
rickspencer3ready to meet?16:30
pittihi all16:31
rickspencer3here's the link again16:31
rickspencer3bryce sends apologies16:31
seb128hey rickspencer316:31
tedgNg: You can :)  The GIO async stuff is magic :)16:32
rickspencer3I guess we're all accounted for16:32
rickspencer3first up is outstanding actions from last meeting16:33
rickspencer3asac to clean up jaunty-desktop-network-changing wiki; draft expected behavior and test cases16:33
tedgNg: We actualy use the GIO async stuff for spawning external processes in Inkscape. :)16:33
asaci did most parts. left out KDE and waiting for more details from mvo on the update- manager things16:33
* tedg 'll be quiet for the meeting, sorry.16:33
asacnow i am going through the apps and file bugs for those that misbehave16:33
mvoasac: uh, sorry. I was not aware that the deadline for this was today16:33
rickspencer3asac: great16:34
asacmvo: no problem ;)16:34
rickspencer3we might want to discuss more when we get to the sprint topic16:34
Ngtedg: thanks for the hint, I'll check it out :)16:34
rickspencer3next item: everyone tag 10 pet bugs by Friday16:34
pittiI checked specs this morning, and there were no "pending approval" or "review" ones, just lots of "drafting"; this becomes a bit urgent no16:34
rickspencer3pitti: yes16:34
rickspencer3I understood that everyone was ready to get them approved now16:34
rickspencer3ArneGoetje: are you still blocking on anything?16:35
rickspencer3in terms of spec approval?16:35
ArneGoetjejust had some last minute discussion with mvo about the implementation of language selector improvements16:35
pitti@all: if you have your spec ready, please set it to "pending approval"16:36
pitti(sorry, got disconnected16:36
pittiI WON'T look at specs which are "drafting"16:36
rickspencer3in a similar vein, has everyone tagged 10 pet bugs?16:36
ArneGoetjerickspencer3: will need to make some small changes to the spec. BUt then it's ready.16:37
rickspencer3ArneGoetje: okay, please set to pending approval asap16:38
calclooks like bryce needs to mark his still but the rest are done?16:38
ArneGoetjerickspencer3: will do16:38
rickspencer3bryce is out for a few days16:38
pittinow let the games begin :)16:38
calcrickspencer3: ok16:38
rickspencer3next topic16:38
seb128I think I'm still one or two bug short, there is some thousand desktop bugs and I still have to pick some in the list ;-)16:39
pittias said, those should be the ones which would be intersting for you to work on16:39
pittiwhich aren't urgent, require some work, but will do lots of good16:39
rickspencer3rickspencer3 to follow up with Maria regarding info for presenters16:39
rickspencer3Mark would like to encourage us to speak and contribute at conferences and such16:40
rickspencer3so please be thinking if there is something like this that you want to do16:40
rickspencer3we can discuss 1-1 in our phone calls16:40
rickspencer3ready to move on to the agenda?16:40
pittiwrt conferences16:41
pittiI think we collected the "want to go to" list a while ago16:41
rickspencer3pitti: understood16:41
pittiI'm not sure whether we need ack from Matt or anyone else for this16:41
rickspencer3good point16:41
rickspencer3I'll follow up on that16:41
Riddellwe should get acks on gran canaria summit soon, air fairs will go up in peak tourist season16:42
pittithe ConferenceAttendance wiki page looks fairly filled16:42
pittiRiddell: :-)16:42
pittiI'll give a speech at the beach cocktail bar16:43
rickspencer3pitti: could you please paste link16:43
pittirickspencer3: /msged16:43
rickspencer3moving on ...16:43
rickspencer3Changing the Add/Remove ...16:43
rickspencer3this was brought up by Jane and Chris originally, then discussed on the desktop list16:44
rickspencer3any other thoughts?16:44
pittiinterestingly, the tooltip says "install or remove applications"16:44
seelewas there a conclusion?16:44
pittiwhich explains it pretty well IMHO16:45
rickspencer3seele: no conclusion, this is still in discussion phase16:45
rickspencer3pitti: yeah, there is a "sizzle" and "steak" question ehre16:45
pittimaybe it should just say "Install/Remove", to unconfuse it with a menu editor?16:45
seb128I've no real opinion about that, let the design team decide?16:45
rickspencer3I think the feeling is that the usable labels aren't very buzz worthy, and we are not getting credit for a great function because of hte naming16:45
pittipersonally I like the location of the menu item, it's exactly where it should be16:46
pittiit just has always looked a bit like menu editor to me16:46
rickspencer3I'm neutral to the whole question, if the design/marketing team comes up with something with some sizzle that makes sense to users, I would support it16:46
* seele mumbles something about a lot of people don't realise how important labels are and think they are "preference"...16:46
rickspencer3I think we need some usability data, we should watch some actual users16:46
asacbuzz worthy? so they dont want a functional name, but something like "software center"?16:47
seb128seele: do you think add,remove is a good label? and softwares library? and why? ;-)16:47
rickspencer3asac: that's one of the better suggestions I've heard so far ;)16:47
seb128asac: "Software Library" what the one suggest on the list which is similar to yours16:47
seeleseb128: rickspencer3 had a point that it didnt follow with the other types of "places" available in that menu16:48
asacyeah. but Center sounds more complete ;)16:48
seelehow well does something like "Center" translate?16:48
* pitti would favor "Add remove software" or "Install/remove"16:49
asacseele: in german it would be "Software Center" ;)16:49
||sico||no problem for spanish...16:49
davidbarthaccording to google (if that's an indicator of how people could name such a thing), "software catalog" gets the highest number of results16:49
rickspencer3pitti: I think they want something that says: there is a world of cool apps here16:49
seb128pitti: "add remove software" is a no go, too long in some locale (german probably being one of those), the menu becomes quickly ugly because it scales to the label16:49
rickspencer3so it seems to me that we are generally supportive of the change *if* they can come up with a name that is:16:50
rickspencer31. understandible16:50
rickspencer32. translatable16:50
rickspencer33. cooler than what we already have16:50
rickspencer3sound about right?16:50
rickspencer3"they" being design and or marketing16:50
asacdavidbarth: software catalog doesnt really imply that you go there to get something :) ... only that you go there to look stuff up.16:50
seb128and short enough to not make the menu look ugly because it will scale to the label16:50
asacrickspencer3: ack16:51
rickspencer34. doesn't make the label look ugly due to length or other issues16:51
pittirickspencer3: I wouldn't exactly measure "coolness", but the percentage of users who understand what this menu item means16:51
davidbarthdavidbarth: sorry, that's software *library*, then *catalog* then software center (using double quotes in the queries)16:51
rickspencer3pitti: yeah, that's the "steak" part of the equation, it has to be usable16:51
seb128"you should try that, really"16:51
seb128what about that? ;-)16:52
rickspencer3so we don't want to sacrifice the steak for the sizzle16:52
rickspencer3seb128: perfect16:52
pitti"Get more stuff"16:52
davidbarthasac: i'm providing some cheap to collect user data16:52
rickspencer3I still think we should test any changes empirically, and Berlin may be a good opportunity for that16:52
rickspencer3move on?16:52
asac"Extend Ubuntu ..." ;)16:52
asacyes lets move on16:52
seb128rickspencer3: no need to wait the sprint, if you want to try a change let me know and I'll do the upload16:53
rickspencer3seb128: will do16:53
rickspencer3there is a section for sponsoring on the agenda template16:53
pittiso on whose plate is that now?16:53
seb128it'll take time before we get translations back though since it'll require translator work and language pack updates16:53
rickspencer3pitti: I'll feedback to Jane and Chris this discussion, and then work with Julian to see if we want to move any ideas forward16:54
asacseb128: maybe inject all suggestions to some po template so we get all translations and can more easily switch to what we want16:54
rickspencer3so, sponsoring?16:54
asaci did a bunch this week16:55
asacmore to come ;)16:55
seb128I did a bunch too ;-)16:55
pittistill have to do some, was on vac; on this week's TODO, though16:55
seb128rickspencer3: anything specific to discuss about sponsoring?16:55
rickspencer3seb128: no, it looks like it's part of the template for the meeting, and I didn't know what it was for16:56
seb128or that's just a reminder that everybody should be doing some?16:56
asaclets whip those that didnt include any in their activity ;)16:56
rickspencer3I'll follow up with someone after the meeting about the agenda item in general16:57
seb128rickspencer3: scott used to review during the meeting desktop sponsor request which were waiting for a while16:57
rickspencer3seb128: thanks, I'll do that next time16:57
rickspencer3let's move on to release status ... I'd like to briefly discuss status on a few items16:58
rickspencer3first, Dx Support16:58
rickspencer3davidbarth: anything to add here?16:58
davidbarthrickspencer3: sure16:58
davidbarthso first we're getting great support from mozilla, thanks to asac16:59
davidbarththen, we're reviewing all apps from main *and* universe16:59
davidbarthi've made a big list with mpt for patches we need to provide16:59
pittido we have some public packages for testing in a PPA?17:00
davidbarthincluding an initial recommendations for the infamous actions17:00
davidbarthpitti: not yet, that will be for our code drop17:00
davidbarthwe're progressing with the implementation17:00
davidbarthwe should have something nice by the time of the sprint when entering the beta cycle17:01
asacdavidbarth: maybe you can drop the apps one by one (when done) instead of one huge code drop?17:01
asacor is that the plan?17:01
davidbarthasac: yes, that's the plan17:01
davidbarthasac: the patches may land even before the daemon is there, but that should not be a problem17:02
rickspencer3thanks davidbarth17:03
davidbarthi hope to provide more on the message indicator next week btw, ted has made great progresses17:03
davidbarthhe should blog to present his thoughts about the API sometime this week17:04
davidbarthand i think that's it17:04
rickspencer3next item, which is related ..17:04
rickspencer3New GDM (PPA and Migration)17:04
pittithanks for the update17:04
rickspencer3seb128: is the PPA ready?17:04
seb128rickspencer3: ppa? I've started looking at the update again, I plan to get it uploaded to universe this week rather than using a ppa though17:05
rickspencer3seb128: right17:05
seb128not yet but will be uploaded during the week17:05
rickspencer3next, Device kit?17:06
pittiso first packaging it, and then work on the migration code?17:07
asacmigration code?17:07
* asac scared that NM breaks17:07
rickspencer3pitti: yes17:07
pittiasac: to carry over old gdm's autologin settings into new gdm's gconf17:07
asacpitti: oh. thought that was on devicekit ;)17:07
pittirickspencer3: latest DK and DK-power are in universe17:07
asacnevermind then17:07
rickspencer3pitti: so done?17:07
pittirickspencer3: well, the spec is about that plus packaging the new gpm in a PPA17:07
pittibut AFAIK tedg wanted to do that?17:08
pittitedg: if not, shall one of us do it?17:08
davidbarthrickspencer3: is device kit in the scope of 9.04?17:08
rickspencer3davidbarth: no17:08
pittidavidbarth: no, just for playing with it17:08
pitti9.04 -> universe17:08
pittiand using current gpm17:08
pitti9.10 -> probably switch to new gpm and DK17:08
davidbarthok, same as gdm17:08
tedgpitti: I can do it, I just really messed up my GPM packaging branch :(  I just need to fix it.17:09
pittitedg: ok, please let me know if you need help with it17:09
pittiI guess it depends on how many patches to old gpm we have to port to the new one17:09
tedgpitti: I just need to figure out what revisions to un-merge.  Not help, just a lot of stupid mistake work.17:09
pittiI wouldn't dare to touch fusa, but if gpm just has a couple which went upstream, I can probably do it as well17:09
seb128tedg: speaking about that, you are going to do the 2.25 update in jaunty?17:10
tedgMany of the GPM patches are for LTSP, which should be handled by DKp, so they shouldn't be GPM patches anymore.17:10
tedgseb128: No.  We're not going to do 25 in Jaunty as it requires DKp.17:11
seb128tedg: 2.24.3 then?17:11
tedgseb128: yes.17:11
seb128ok good17:11
pitti2.25 was for a PPA, depending on dk-p?17:11
seb128are you sure that 2.25 requires that new thing?17:11
tedgpitti: ys.17:11
seb128vuntz: ^ do you know about that? is that a GNOME requirement now?17:11
tedgseb128: I'm pretty sure that's what hughsie's e-mail to GNOME-devel said.17:12
pittiseb128: AFAIK Richard explicitly sanctioned distros using 2.24 for the moment, for that very reason17:12
seb128tedg: that's weird that GNOME accepted a 2.26 requirement on that17:12
rickspencer3ready to move on?17:13
rickspencer3we should discuss the Berlin sprint17:13
rickspencer3it starts in less than two weeks17:13
pittimy ideas which would greatly benefit from being together: fix (1) hotkey, (2) beamer, (3) suspend/resume for everyone's laptop17:13
tkamppeterYes, I live in Berlin and it would be nice if the sprint really takes place there.17:13
pittitkamppeter: that's settled already :)17:14
tkamppeterIs there any Wiki page about the Sprint?17:14
rickspencer3tkamppeter: let's talk seperately, I'll bring you up to speed17:14
rickspencer3pitti: good ideas17:15
ArneGoetjepitti: fix the intel driver in xorg for i855, 915 and 945 first17:15
vuntzseb128: we're discussing the dk-p dep on the r-t mailing list right now, but it'll likely be accepted, yes17:15
pittiArneGoetje: outside my competency, so I can't judge whether that's feasible :)17:15
seb128I should try to get somebody to fix my machine crashing on user switching ;-)17:15
asacpitti: those three sound more like foundation topics ;)17:15
pittiasac: true that, but that's quite inherent to hardware specific problems :)17:15
seb128vuntz: GNOME starts being disappointing on the crack level ;-)17:16
pittiwell, it's not crack, it's just kind of a nuisance to have to support both hal and dk at the same time17:16
rickspencer3pitti: seb128: I'd like to propose a session on efficient bug management17:16
seb128pitti: they are hurrying too fast on rewrites recently and that leads to the recent issue we had for gdm, gnome-session, etc17:16
seb128rickspencer3: good idea yes17:17
pittirickspencer3: sounds very similar to my UDS talk?17:17
davidbarthrickspencer3: +117:17
rickspencer3pitti: yes, but more and hands on17:17
pittior do you mean something else?17:17
asacmaybe we should do a one day trip to hamburg and visit the pulseaudio lennart17:17
asacjust kiddin17:17
pittiasac: -ECITY, he lives in Boston now?17:17
asacpitti: shit ;)17:17
rickspencer3how about some time with the Dx team making sure their new stuff works on all of our laptops?17:18
asacrickspencer3: efficient bug management -> only thing that can help me is the launcpad plugin getting deployed in bugzillas.17:18
pittiI think at the sprint we should focus on squashing hardware related bugs and working with the Dx team17:18
rickspencer3asac: yes, not necessarily useful for everyone, but very useful for some17:18
pittiand otherwise just continue fixing bugs, picking the ones where we need to pick the brains from colleagues17:18
rickspencer3pitti: += design team17:18
seb128asac: what would that change? I'm not convinced about that17:18
asacrickspencer3: i think its useful for all software that has a bugzilla tracker17:18
asacseb128: it will resolve the "proxy" problem. e.g. at the moment you file bug upstreawm17:19
asacand from then on have to proxy discussion for launchpad reporter17:19
* pitti never found that to be a major blocker17:19
rickspencer3ArneGoetje: what would you like to get out of the sprint?17:19
asacwith plugin you just file upstream against proper component and then monitor and help out when necessary17:20
davidbarthrickspencer3: we've added that as part of our sprint, on Monday, Wednesday and Friday; the rest of the time is for coding17:20
pittithe time I need to create an fd.o bug is insignificant compared to the time it takes me to write an upstream-ish bug description17:20
seb128asac: the proxy thing is a feature, without that we would send crack bugs upstream and they would start ignoring those17:20
asacseb128: well. we do the initial forwarding. so we still filter17:20
ArneGoetjerickspencer3: finish a great deal of language selector17:20
rickspencer3ArneGoetje: is that something that will benefit from being together with everyone?17:20
seb128asac: well, what does that would change then? You need to clean the bug description before sending the bug anyway17:20
seb128not really a meeting topic though17:20
seb128let's discuss that later ;-)17:21
ArneGoetjerickspencer3: mostly with mvo17:21
vuntzseb128: well, you can stay with gpm 2.2417:21
vuntzseb128: that's hughsie's plan, and he's maintaining 2.24 for people who wants to stay with hal17:21
pittivuntz: do you happen to know when GNOME will switch everything to DK away from hal?17:21
vuntzpitti: I asked a few weeks ago. It won't happen for 2.2617:21
rickspencer3ok, no other ideas regarding the sprint?17:22
=== asomething_ is now known as asomething
pittivuntz: no, didn't expect that :)17:22
vuntzpitti: maybe 2.28. I don't think we have that many things directly using hal, actually17:22
asacrickspencer3: fixing bugs in apps that dont behave properly on network changes17:22
rickspencer3Riddell: any thoughts regarding the sprint?17:22
pittivuntz: primarily gvfs and nautilus, I guess17:22
rickspencer3asac: yes, good one17:22
Riddellrickspencer3: making sure our mysql changes get agreed and in17:22
seb128vuntz: right, we will do that17:22
vuntzpitti: nautilus doesn't depend on hal at all. It's pure gio love :-)17:23
Riddellneed to talk to server team people for that17:23
rickspencer3Riddell: sounds good17:23
rickspencer3all: I'll put together a list of topics and send out for review17:23
rickspencer3I have some details from some other teams that I can include17:24
pittivuntz: indeed :) so gpm (done), gvfs, network-manager, and system-config-printer primarily17:24
asacnetwork-manager will go for devicekit for 0.817:24
asacbut that will take a bit17:24
rickspencer3moving on in the agenda17:24
rickspencer3Activity Reports: all done and on the wiki, so thanks for that17:24
pittiasac: (just would be nice to have the migration for next LTS)17:25
rickspencer3any other business?17:25
asacpitti: i hope we can get a quicker release cycle from now on17:25
* rickspencer3 tries desperately to stick to agenda17:25
* rickspencer3 but has already lost control17:25
pittirickspencer3: well done17:25
seb128one thing17:25
pittisorry for the side discussions17:25
vuntzpitti: system-config-printer doesn't depend on hal either, I think :-) But there's a hal backend for cups17:25
seb128slangasek was needing cd space for the alpha some days ago, I told him to move nautilus-cd-burner deskbar-applet tracker to supported17:26
pittivuntz: yes, I mean that hal-cups-utils, it calls s-c-p for autoconfig love17:26
seb128just to let know everybody if somebody has comments on the change17:26
rickspencer3seb128: tracker makes sense, but CD burner?17:26
seb128brasero implements the nautilus-cd-burner features now17:26
seb128ie, burn: location in nautilus, libraries to be used by rhythmbox, etc17:27
rickspencer3I guess it makes sense, I'll check it out17:27
pittioh, it indeed looks quite nice17:27
seb128deskbar-applet and tracker where not used in the default configuration, they are not that useful and quite buggy17:27
pittiburnign an iso has a nice and small UI now, not the full brasero one17:28
rickspencer3seb128: thanks for the update17:28
rickspencer3any other business?17:28
asaci didnt find brasero in accessories ;) ... then found it in sound & video ... hmmm17:28
seb128one other small thing17:28
pittirickspencer3: oh, sprint idea: measure everyone's desktop startup speed and work on making them faster17:28
seb128somebody raised a question about the dpi setting we use some time ago on the channel17:28
seelerickspencer3: unrelated but i am still waiting for MPT to get me the bib for Ubuntu's notification design17:29
* calc notes jaunty a3 takes ~ 18s on his desktop17:29
asacseb128: font dpi?17:29
seb128gnome-settings-daemon still force the value to 96 dpi rather than using the xorg value17:29
seb128we did that because we had too many buggy cases when we trying to not force the value in gutsy17:29
asaci think bryce has to comment on that .... afaik it was because of a X bug or something17:29
pitticalc: 62 seconds for me :(17:29
seb128this user was arguing that nowadays that break many setups though17:29
seb128and that we should drop the forced value17:29
rickspencer3seele: have you been in contact with MPT directly regarding this?17:29
calcpitti: on a fresh install? i didn't have anything else loaded on mine17:29
pittiseb128: another good sprint material, I think17:29
seb128does anybody has an opinion about that?17:30
seelerickspencer3: yep, no rely though17:30
davidbarthseele: i'm seeing him tomorrow, i'll pass on the message17:30
calcpitti: and that was from grub to gdm login prompt for me17:30
seeledavidbarth: ok thanks17:30
asacseb128: many setups?17:30
seb128should we try not forcing the value for a while and get user feedback during this cycle?17:30
pitticalc: ah, I mean gdm until the desktop is ready to use17:30
calcpitti: ah ok17:30
pittiseb128: *nod*17:30
pittiseb128: and on the sprint we have plenty of people and hardware to try it out on17:30
asacseb128: i think we should try17:30
seb128asac: lot of screen have higher dpi resolutions now and 96 makes those look really wrong where letting xorg get the value would work better17:31
seb128asac, pitti: ok17:31
bluesmokemvo: Do you have any idea what http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~compiz/compiz/ubuntu/annotate/head%3A/debian/patches/010-disable-child-window-clipping.patch is even for?17:31
rickspencer3meeting adjourned?17:31
mptrickspencer3, yes she has17:31
seb128thanks rickspencer317:31
pittirickspencer3: I think we should start adding those to the sprint wiki page17:31
bluesmokemvo: I think it's for that hack to enable XaaNoOffscreenPixmaps on the fly? Do we need that?17:31
pittithanks everyone17:31
rickspencer3pitti: agreed17:31
mptbut I'm still ~1 month behind on non-urgent stuff17:32
* calc wonders if displays should be a focus for 9.10 wrt dpi, working better on netbooks, etc17:32
=== bluesmoke is now known as Amaranth
tkamppeterI have something, WDYT about a foomatic-filters SRU: bug 318816, bug 318818, bug 299918, bug 30369117:32
ubottuBug 318816 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/318816 is private17:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 318818 in foomatic-filters "Intrepid fails LSB 3.2 tests on foomatic-filters" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31881817:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 299918 in foomatic-filters "Cannot print duplex in intrepid with Ricoh Aficio 2060, Ricoh Aficio MPC3000 or Brother HL-4050cdn using the openprinting drivers" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29991817:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 303691 in foomatic-filters "Intrepid, print broken with Minolta PagePro 8L printer" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30369117:32
pittitkamppeter: we can discuss that in #u-devel IMHO17:32
tkamppeterpitti, OK17:32
tkamppeterYes, this is the server side of the printing stack and not desktop.17:33
seb128is launchpad not working today?17:33
calcseb128: works for me17:33
* seb128 got almost no bug mail this afternoon, that's weird17:33
Amaranthmvo: Other than that we have 4 patches that aren't for settings or from upstream and I think we should be able to get at least 2 of them upstream17:33
seb128pedro_: did you triage bug this afternoon? I don't get my usual bug mail flood today ;-)17:34
pedro_seb128: it's being slow here but it's working17:34
pedro_seb128: just returning from lunch :-P17:35
calcseb128: i'm getting email from LP17:35
seb128ok, must just be a calm day for desktop bugs17:35
calcseb128: i think it might be delayed a bit (< 1hr though)17:35
calcoh hmm i just an email for a change 7m ago so maybe not delayed so much17:36
seelerickspencer3: davidbarth: mpt: i'm going to write up my notes on notifications so we can begin discussing them in terms of KDE.17:38
rickspencer3seele: thank you17:38
pedro_is anybody having cracking sounds with pulseaudio?17:40
davidbarthseele: yes, thanks, you'd better start, i'm still paddling in gnome code, that will help me switch to kde17:40
asacpedro_: cracking?17:40
calcpedro_: i hear that on my laptop but no sound other than the cracking17:41
asacfor me pulse is definitly on crack ;) ... but indeed17:41
asacif i go to gstreamer-properties and run the test sound i get a crack shortly after it starts17:41
pedro_asac: well, like.. not being so good, you know little jumps between music17:41
asacbut otherwise no17:41
calcPA is known to have issues with among other things all hda-intel realtek codecs :-\17:41
asacpedro_: for me it happened when my ati graphics driver was running EXA17:42
calcnot sure what kind of issues those happen to be17:42
asacwhich slowed down things to death17:42
asacpedro_: i forced Xaa and all is fine now ... so wasnt a pulse issue ... more a general system load thing caused by buggy exa accell method17:42
pedro_I have an intel card but i'm having issues with xorg being slow at the beginning of the session17:43
asacmy line in isnt working on hda-intel realtek  though :(17:43
asacpedro_: also EXA?17:43
pedro_asac: yeah17:43
asaci think intel uses exa for quite some time17:43
asacbut still worth a try ... if xaa works at all17:44
asacon intel17:44
pedro_yup will try that otherwise will fill a bug17:45
crevetteseb128: I updated nautilus-sendto17:46
seb128crevette: good, I'll review that later17:46
mvoAmaranth: no idea about 010_ - its there since the dawn of time (i.e. nice before I merged it into bzr)18:21
Amaranthmvo: Yeah, it's been there since 0.3.618:22
AmaranthI remember mjg59 added it18:22
AmaranthAll it does is create that atom, I'm pretty sure it's for the XAA workaround18:22
mvoAmaranth: ok18:23
Amaranthalso, it's kind of neat running compiz without LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT now :)18:24
Amaranthand seeing compiz-manager handle that correctly18:24
chrisccoulsonhi seb128 - i notice gnome-session didn't build on 1 arch18:32
chrisccoulsonhi mvo - i did the work on bug 302326 that we spoke about last week. the change is in bzr. would you mind taking a look at it?18:50
ubottuLaunchpad bug 302326 in update-notifier ""Restart Now" informational applet does not work" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30232618:50
mvochrisccoulson: sure, I misread the last comment when I looked at it the other day, I missed the bit that the patch is already commited :)18:51
mvochrisccoulson: what is the bzr lp url?18:51
chrisccoulson1 second18:52
chrisccoulsonit is lp:~chrisccoulson/update-notifier/bug30232618:52
chrisccoulsoni had to bring the branch in sync with what was in the archive, which just involved moving a changelog entry (for a change that went in after the last release)18:54
=== bluesmoke is now known as Amaranth
mvothanks chrisccoulson18:58
chrisccoulsonyou're welcome18:58
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
seb128chrisccoulson: sorry I was just running for dinner when you ask your question20:25
seb128chrisccoulson: the build was on ia64? that seems to be a buildd issue20:26
jlamsensAnyone already has Compiz 0.7.8 running on Ubuntu 8.04 ? I have the problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/24273520:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 242735 in compiz "[nvidia] 2 sec delay on 1 of 2 X screens, no xinerama" [Undecided,Fix released]20:45
jlamsensApparently, compiz 0.7.8 is only available for Intrepid, not for hardy. No backuport exists. Latest Compiz version for hardy: 0.7.620:46
jlamsensAnyone ?20:47
chrisccoulsonhi seb128, sorry i had to disappear as well. yeah, i was referring to the ia64 build of gnome-session. i wasn't sure what the problem was with it21:07
chrisccoulsonit's just a transient error is it?21:07
seb128chrisccoulson: it seems, let me build retry this one21:08
seb128chrisccoulson: you're welcome, thank you for the work you are doing21:08
chrisccoulsonyou're welcome too:)21:09
seb128chrisccoulson: not sure if you are interested by doing some other GNOME updates but let me know if you are there is still some tarballs to update ;-)21:09
chrisccoulsonno problem. i can't do any this evening as i've got some other stuff to do, but just give me a shout if you see me on here21:10
chrisccoulsoni'm around most evenings21:10
seb128we really should update the workflow this cycle, there was some work started on that21:10
seb128having a public system listing updates that are waiting and letting anybody claim any of those21:11
chrisccoulsonthat would be quite useful21:12
asomethingseb128: http://norsetto.890m.com/desktop_packages.php is nice but it doesn't seem to look for 2.25.* packages21:39
seb128asomething: right, it needs to be updated21:47
asomethingseb128: tools like that are important, they show people (like me) good places to jump in21:48
seb128asomething: right, we need some server to run the tools and some organisation though21:49
seb128asomething: the "whoever is the fast to grab an upgrade" system is not the best one21:50
seb128some people are working on a regular base on the same components and should be prefered upgrader if they are around21:50
seb128and we try to balance the tasks between contributors21:50
seb128we tend to attribute work on IRC right now but that has limitation21:50
seb128we could use a summary and a list of tasks though21:51
asomethingseb128: exactly, if a page like that were kept up to date, it would make things easier to know21:51
seb128if you are looking for something to do just ask there though ;-)21:52
seb128do you have some special interest in some component?21:52
asomethingseb128: i often have a hard time figuring where my efforts are best needed21:53
seb128the question should rather be what is interesting you the most because that's where you should start21:53
asomethingseb128: nothing too specific, I mostly keep to working on gnome/gtk desktop stuff21:53
seb128you can do bug triage, bug fixing, updates21:54
seb128is there any GNOME component you already worked on? or that you use often and have special interest in?21:54
asomethingseb128: i've done a few uploads of cheese and (not gnome but ubuntu-desktop) transmission21:56
asomethingi maintain file-browser-applet and parcellite in debian21:58
dobeylike the thing that shows a menu of the file system in the gnome panel?22:01
asomethingdobey: it's a gnome panel applet, in universe for Ubuntu22:01
asomethingupstrea home: http://code.google.com/p/gnome-menu-file-browser-applet/22:02
asomethingthough, the upstream dev is probably moving to LP soon, with my help22:03
seb128asomething: nobody seems to be actively working on cheese, you are welcome to do the updates when they are available if you want22:09
seb128asomething: just ask on the channel if you are not sure or have any question22:09
asomethingseb128: if there are any other gnome 2.25.* packages that still need to be done, feel free to delegate something to me, i'd love to help more22:10
* dobey still needs to make 2.25.x releases of a few things22:13
didrocksseb128: you are working late these days22:15
seb128didrocks: no22:16
seb128didrocks: I stop early and sometime come back later22:16
seb128"early", ie at a reasonable work hour ;-)22:17
didrocksseb128: oki :-) I am building my changes again (on my laptop this time) and test on my vm22:17
seb128didrocks: time to update your laptop to jaunty!22:17
didrocksseb128: indeed :-)22:18
didrockshum, taking a tour on LP to see which bugs can be closed with this release22:18
seb128asomething: there is not too many updates to do right now in fact but when one tarball is available I will let you know22:20
seb128didrocks: good22:20
seb128asomething: not sure how much you know about packaging, evolution-mapi is a new thing to package but that's not really a beginner task though22:21
asomethingseb128: not a beginner but not exactly a vet yet either. but i wouldn't really be able to test it. it's for interacting with an exchange server right?22:24
seb128asomething: the server team can do the testing22:32
seb128asomething: they don't seem to be that interested in packaging it and technically that's a GNOME component so we sort of agreed on having the desktop team doing the packaging and they will do the testing22:36
asomethingseb128: i can take a crack at it, is there already a needs-packaging bug?22:36
emberbtw seb128 is there any update free?22:38
seb128asomething: not that I know22:38
seb128ember: no, that's what I was saying to asomething just before22:38
emberpochu reminder, take a another look at gtk-css sitting on revu when you have time22:38
emberok i didn't read the backlog i was just asking22:39
seb128ember: it would be nice if you could stop doing updates without asking there before, some of those you did are not useful they only have translation updates and since jaunty language packs are not updated yet they just give extra sponsoring work for nothing22:39
seb128ember: you also did some which were assigned to other people who asked on the channel22:39
emberoh sorry didn't know about the translations, were just trivial ones22:40
emberwhich one? i can invalid it22:41
seb128ember: that's ok, better to ask on the channel until there is a better way to list updates to do though22:41
seb128ember: don't bother now that they are done, they are quick to sponsor too, but there is no real need to do those22:42
seb128gnome-menus and libwnck were not really required, there is some minor changes there and version will be uptodate this way22:43
asomethingseb128: I'll get a package on REVU in the next couple days, bug 31940022:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 319400 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] evolution-mapi " [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31940022:44
seb128ok, enough work for today now23:17

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