sbalneavEvening all02:39
Meshezabeelevening sbalneav02:45
Meshezabeelis it all right to advertise on this channel?02:48
sbalneavCommercial products? No, probably not.02:49
sbalneavIt's a development and support channel02:49
Meshezabeelyeah, actually I meant for a meeting for some oss educational software I am developing, I know it's off topic, so thought I'd ask ;)02:51
Ahmucki'm curious what it is02:52
Ahmuckis it gpl ?02:52
Meshezabeelyes gpl02:53
Meshezabeelbut Java02:53
sbalneavWell, if you're just going to announce that you're having a meeting for <name> in channel <channel>, and for interested people to pop by, THAT would be fine.02:54
sbalneavBut if you're going to put on a blue shirt and a headset mic and start flogging ShamWow or SlapChop ("You're gonna love my nuts!!!") that might not be so good :)02:55
Meshezabeelokay, lol, I kind of started anyhow, so may as well finish, it is lanuage teaching software at http://nikamo.org (for teaching human languages)02:55
MeshezabeelI will be having a discussion meeting about the current development as well as what people would like to see. The meeting will be at #nikamo on Thursday at 7:30pm CST (8:30pm EST).02:56
Meshezabeelnow...where did I leave that blue shirt?02:56
sbalneav"Are you following me, camera guy?"02:57
sbalneav"You know the *germans* make good stuff"02:57
Meshezabeelhmm, you watch too many infomercials me thinks :) I don't even get the references there ;)02:58
Ahmucki'm interested02:59
sbalneavHold on, gimme a sec :)03:00
AhmuckMeshezabeel: my only problem is that many times i can't get java stuff to run properly03:00
Meshezabeelno actually, I have been a bit embarrased to post screen shots at the moment, because most of the pictures include me attempting to draw stick people, etc.03:00
MeshezabeelI did have an artist draw some pictures for me, but she was only temporary, and haven't found anyone else to replace her.03:00
MeshezabeelAhmuck: in Ubuntu?03:01
LaserJockhi all03:02
MeshezabeelYou will generally have to have Sun's Java installed, there was a bug in OpenJDK with component spacing, but it is fixed in Jaunty's release. Then you can just right-click on the jar and say "Open with Sun's Java"03:02
sbalneavThere's the inimitable Vince Offer, master huckster03:02
sbalneavHey hey hey LaserJock03:02
Ahmucksbalneav: not those screenshots03:02
MeshezabeelHeya LaserJock03:03
sbalneavI kinda like the intro I gave you this afternoon.03:03
Ahmuckah, i'm on intrepid.  anything special i need to do there?03:03
sbalneav"Zap! It's LaserJock"03:03
Ahmucktry artrage forum.  they have a number of artist there03:03
MeshezabeelAhmuck: you will need to install Sun's Java if you did not do so already03:03
MeshezabeelI think CGJ is currently the only 'Java' that comes with Ubuntu, and it is not really Java.03:04
LaserJockMeshezabeel: not true03:05
MeshezabeelLaserJock: it is true, I said "I think" :)03:05
LaserJockcgj isn't the default Java anymore03:05
MeshezabeelLaserJock: OpenJDK?03:05
LaserJockopenjdk is I believe03:05
AhmuckMeshezabeel: what type of art do you need.  i may have found you an artist03:06
MeshezabeelLaserJock: OpenJDK has bugs in the Intrepid version with component spacing, so it is worthless right now, it is fixed in the Jaunty release03:06
LaserJockso we should maybe look into getting that fixed perhaps03:07
MeshezabeelAhmuck: basically any type of art for teaching scenarios, such as body parts, objects, etc.03:07
MeshezabeelLaserJock: see the difference in vertical and horizontal spacing between OpenJDK and Sun's: http://imagebin.org/3636103:08
MeshezabeelAhmuck: I already have some artwork for weather terms and some animals, etc., but that's about it.03:10
Meshezabeelsbalneav: you've sold me on the ShamWow, I just ordered 20 of them...it was only a limited time offer after all.03:10
sbalneavWatch the slapchop one.03:14
sbalneavDon't have a boring life!03:15
sbalneavYou'll love Vince's nuts!03:15
sbalneavThe best, best, *best* part is the blind backhand toss into the sink.03:15
sbalneavLaserJock: oooooh03:16
sbalneavsome niiiice patches in that link I got.03:16
sbalneavworkin, workin...03:17
Meshezabeel"We're gonna make America skinny again...one slap at a time"03:26
Meshezabeeltoo bad I didn't spend all that money on the Shamwow, I would have bought this one too. :)03:27
AhmuckMeshezabeel: think i found you an artist.  i would suspect he'll contact you via e-mail03:28
Meshezabeelwow awesome!!! Thank you Ahmuck :)03:28
MeshezabeelWow, that's amazing! I've never bothered with Google Earth before as I didn't really need it too often, and would use Google Maps, if I needed to look at the Earth. But I think I am going to have to download Google Earth now :)03:36
MeshezabeelThere's an open source software called Celestia to get a 3-Dimensional view of the universe, I always thought this software could also be used with other 3D objects to teach other subjects kids would be interested in (such as dinosaurs, etc.).03:39
LaserJockhmm, interesting thought03:41
LaserJocknubae: around?04:36
LaserJockI was wondering what people thought would be a good "namespace" for the Universe app bundle package names04:36
LaserJockfor Main I used ubuntu-edu-* to go along with the Ubuntu Education CD where they will end up04:37
Meshezabeelubuntu-eduverse ;)04:42
LaserJockI was thinking of edubuntu-extras-*04:43
LaserJockto sort of show that we consider it the non-core extra stuff04:44
MeshezabeelThe only thing is, it doesn't start with the same naming scheme as Main04:48
MeshezabeelIs this important, I dunno, but worth considering anyhow.04:49
LaserJockright, which I think is a good thing04:49
LaserJockwell, I wanted to create some separation04:49
Meshezabeelokay, so ubuntu-edu would be like an external add-on to ubunutu. And edubuntu-... would be like an external add-on to edubuntu.04:50
Meshezabeelif 'external' is the right word to use04:51
LaserJockwell, not exactly04:52
LaserJockubuntu-edu would be an add-on to ubuntu, that's right04:52
LaserJockedubuntu- is also an add-on but not fully supported by Canonical and the Edubuntu community04:52
MeshezabeelI mean it could work, the only thing is that it does not follow the same approach that ubuntu itself follows, using the same 'namespace' for both main and universe04:58
LaserJockright, well, Ubuntu doesn't do what we do :(04:58
LaserJockI'm afraid if we're consistent the names are going to get really long04:59
LaserJockubuntu-edu-extras-preschool, ubuntu-edu-extras-primary, etc.04:59
Meshezabeelyeah, I see your point05:00
Meshezabeelwhat about edubuntu-core for main?05:00
LaserJockwell, I wanted to use ubuntu-edu because those packages are used for the Ubuntu Education CD05:01
Meshezabeelor just edubuntu for that matter05:01
LaserJockand well, I already uploaded them :-)05:01
MeshezabeelIs the Ubuntu Education CD different from the Edubuntu Add-on CD?05:02
LaserJockwe renamed it05:02
LaserJockto be more clear and accomidating to Canonical05:03
Meshezabeelah, I see :)05:03
LaserJockwho would like to use "Ubuntu Education" to market to OEMs and such05:03
MeshezabeelYeah, I actually think that works better05:03
LaserJockwe thought it would be a bit more understandable to people05:05
Meshezabeelyes, I agree05:05
MeshezabeelAhmuck_Jr: You are trying to install dansguardian when it is already installed?06:07
MeshezabeelWere you running under sudo? I assume so, but then again line 7 seems a bit interesting.06:08
Ahmuck_Jryes.  default dans guardian on a clean box06:10
Ahmuck_Jrbeen using open dns as a test but it does not even come close to filtering properly06:11
Meshezabeelwhat is not filtering?06:12
MeshezabeelAhmuck_Jr: this seems to be the closest thing related to it, and even that is an older version: http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-rc@lists.debian.org/msg86523.html06:18
MeshezabeelAnyhow, heading to bed, you can check out this link to (maybe you've done so already): http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-392356.html06:20
Meshezabeelnight all06:21
Ahmuck_Jri need to thank meshezabeel.  that last link was dead on06:42
=== alkisg1 is now known as alkisg
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
=== HedgeMag1 is now known as HedgeMage
sbalneavMorning all14:51
PetarisHi all16:06
Petarisis there a way to see an entire X session from the LTSP server remotly?16:06
PetarisI ssh'd in with the -X option16:07
Petarisbut what I really want is the login window16:08
PetarisI need to check some things and the server is in another building accross town16:08
nubaeor rdp16:10
nubaeor citrix16:10
nubaeu need vnc installed in the client of course16:11
Ahmuckno machine ?16:11
Ahmuckgood morning16:12
Petarishrm, I thought that this was possible without vnc16:12
* Ahmuck looks for his cot to sleep this morning16:12
nubaea whole session? dont believe so16:12
nubae-X is for individual apps16:12
nubaeunless u could start gdm or something16:12
nubaenever tried, it might work16:13
PetarisI thought ogra had me do it once16:13
nubaetry the #ltsp channel16:13
nubaemore ltsp geeks there16:13
Petariswill do16:13
Ahmucknoticed the edubuntu brainstorm idea on meusems.  i think i could put togather a photo tour for edubuntu of a book called "sod and stubble" about life on the prarie in the early 1900's16:41
Ahmuckthe meusuem idea could be further done with a html app that would allow you to look at meuseum links having a short description and a photo next to it16:42
Ahmuckour tourism council and historical society has a multimedia presentation we would be happy to have a link to.16:47
Ahmuckactually, my bad, not sod and stubble, but sod house days, a book of letters between a kansas homesteader and otheras back east16:47
Ahmuckthe meusem/history idea has potential for canocial in that if canocial would support a ecuatiocaonl centric web site with catagories, they could charge to have sites listed.  the site would need to be catogoriazed, for instance in my case under the catagore about kansas16:50
Ahmuckand settlers or homesteading.  think of it as a visual library and/or visual history presentation16:50
Ahmuckor would this be better served with wikipedia?16:50
* Ahmuck likes history16:52
sbalneavOne of the suggestions we've had in the past is an "offline" wikipedia.16:58
sbalneavWhich, oddly enough, isn't THAT terribly hard to do, other than the fact that it involves a lot of data.16:59
nubaesbalneav: that already exists for the xo17:03
nubaecalled wikislices17:03
nubaeits actually quite good and mature17:03
sbalneavI know it's out there, but we've never bothered to do anything about it simply because of the sheer amount of data that we'd have to package up.17:05
Ahmuckis it possible to create a mechanism where meuseum x has to provide thier own packaging?17:13
Ahmuckand then go through approval?17:13
Ahmucka repository thorugh edubuntu would be a gold mine for schools, particuallry if local venues could contribute.  there is a lot of local history and funny stories type of things that i find most interesting.17:14
nubaeI think its difficult to put the name edubuntu or ubuntu-edu to anything but the packages officially in main and universe17:18
sbalneavA museum wanting to provide content could certainly sign up for a launchpad account and create a Personal Package Archive where they could post their own stuff, for sure.17:20
sbalneavAs for making it something that "automatically" gets included on every Edubuntu box, that would be a no-go.17:20
sbalneavWhat would stop a malicious user from simply posting packages that do damage, install sniffers, etc.17:21
Ahmuckwell, not packages ... but website hosting17:24
Ahmuckmultimedia hosting17:24
Ahmuckactually, nm, i have a better idea how to implment the idea17:24
nubaereminds me of the guy that came on some time ago, wanting to create a repo of lesson plans and applications on his own site...17:37
nubaewonder whatever happened to him... he had grand ideas17:37
nubaesbalneav: remember?17:37
Ahmucka repo of lesson plans?17:43
Ahmuckactually, i've got a way to implment the meusum idea.17:43
sbalneavI hate to sound like a grizzled old crank but...17:43
Ahmucki think i'm going to try and do it here locally17:43
sbalneavWe see it a lot in the free software world17:44
Ahmucki'll tuck the repo of lesson plans idea under my to do list with a sticky note17:44
sbalneavPeople with fan-freakin-tastic ideas who will save the world, if only we'd drop everything, listen to them, and do all their bidding.17:44
Ahmuckheh, and there is where the differnence is.  peolpe really don't need to do peoples bidding.  it's about the power of the hive17:45
Ahmucklike bees or ants17:45
sbalneavWhen you actually say "Well, roll up your sleaves and show us how it's done!" they quietly... sneak... away...17:45
Ahmuckheh, not me17:45
sbalneavEverybody wants to be queen bee.17:45
sbalneavnobody wants to be a worker bee. :)17:46
Ahmucki've got this meusem idea down i think.  we'll see if i can put it togather17:46
Ahmuckwithout worker bees the queen starves to death :)17:46
Ahmuckand the hive dies17:46
* Ahmuck raises bees17:46
* sbalneav enjoys honey17:46
Ahmuckorganic bees17:46
sbalneavAnywho, off for lunch, be back in a bit.17:47
Ahmuckmost honey is diluted with sugar water and has all kinds of anti-biotics in it17:47
Ahmucksbalneav: the guy with the lesson plans had the plans and had done the work, but was looking for someone to set up the host for the repo because he/she did not know how to do that.  expecting him/her to do so would be like expecting an car mechanic to paint a michangelo.  it simply not in his/her skill set17:54
Ahmuckmy skill set is matching people and resources.  if you have his nick or email address i might be interested in connecting with him/her17:55
Ahmuckhis lesson plans would be a good start17:55
Ahmucki do the tech stuff to keep me from being bored17:55
LaserJockno RichEd?17:57
Lnswe're meeting in #ubuntu-meeting, right?17:57
LaserJockin ~ 3min17:57
nubaewow is it already that time?17:57
nubaetime flies17:58
* Lns waves to nubae, all17:58
nubaeI just sold ubuntu to 2 schools here... they will migrate both locations to Linux and edubuntu entirely ;-)17:58
Lnsnubae: niiice!!17:58
Lnsnubae: LTSP, or ?17:59
nubaewasnt hard convincing, since the sysadmin there was a linux geek already17:59
nubaeyeah LTSP17:59
Lnsthat is awesome17:59
nubaehe was already running 2 kiosks with opera (ltsp 4.2)17:59
nubaeI told him things have come a long way since then17:59
nubaeand that u wanna use the full power of the desktop18:00
Ahmuckhow do you sell to schools?  i've not had great experiences with ltsp yet18:00
nubaewell, usually its a slow process18:00
nubaebut if there are linux guys on board... then its easy18:00
Ahmucki'd have trouble selling it, because i have not seen it work as well as i expected it to18:01
LaserJockstgraber, sbalneav : you guys around?18:01
LaserJockmorgs: available for an Edubuntu meeting?18:01
nubaewell, it requires an experienced ltsp user for the admin side right now, for sure18:01
Ahmuckin the school, correct?18:01
nubaewell, at least to be able to setup the system18:01
nubaeafter, its not really needed18:02
nubaeLaserJock: sbalneav is out to Lunch I believe18:02
Ahmuckour schools have k-12 max of 300 students.  it's hard enough to pay for general school stuff let alone hire an admin for the shcool.  our local school advertise three times before getting a tech and he left with physc problems18:02
LaserJocknubae: heh18:02
nubaeand I just spoke to morgs on gtalk, so he should be around18:03
Ahmucki'd be really interested in pushing ltsp and edubunt to schools, but i'm hesitant to do so18:03
nubaeAhmuck, why?18:03
morgsLaserJock: here?18:03
Ahmuckthere are a number of reasons.  one is content filtering.  i've not tried dans guardian yet though18:03
nubaedansguardian is very easy to setup18:04
nubaejust requires some time to go through the lists18:04
Ahmuckwe have a school of about 1000+ students here that uses open office, gimp, and scribus.  they are still on ms os platforms however, but i don't think it would take much to convince them to switch18:04
LaserJockmorgs: in #ubuntu-meeting18:05
Ahmuckand there is the new president, who is going to dump lots of money into edu.  if ms offers low prices and there is govt money, that's another hurdle to clear18:05
LnsAhmuck: we just need to keep in mind that our tech is pretty much miles ahead of MS's  as far as edu setups go18:06
Ahmucki've not seen ms stuff.  i'm a linux peep only.  i don't even know what adobe stuff looks like18:08
Ahmuckif someone could dig up the nick for the guy with the  lesson plans i might consider looking into it18:08
Lnsogra: you going to join into #ubuntu-meeting, or are you busy?18:08
ograi'm quite busy but can be available on request to answer one or the other thing18:08
Lnsok, thx ogra  :)18:09
=== calimer-- is now known as calimer
Ahmuckdoes abiword output to *.doc?19:09
Ahmuck97/2000/xp ?19:09
highvoltageI thought upstream evince had all the olpc stuff in now?19:10
nubaeAhmuck yep19:10
nubaenah Tomeu is still chasing them I think19:11
morgshighvoltage: we've been using a custom sugar-evince package in the fedora-ish OLPC distro19:11
morgshttp://sugarlabs.org/go/Evince tracks the upstreaming19:11
highvoltageg'night edubuntu'ers19:46
Lnsnight, highvoltage19:47
LaserJockok, I'm done for today for IRC I think19:47
LaserJockplease try to post as much stuff to edubuntu-devel as you can in terms of things we need to think about or get done for Jaunty19:48
LaserJockthanks everybody, you guys rock!19:48
LnsSo what's the verdict on the Plasma in Edubuntu thing? Was whatshisface just looking to start collaborating with us, or is he looking to migrate edubuntu stuff to plasma, or... ?19:49
Ahmucki think he was explaining how plasma worked and how easy it would be to create a uni admin app for ltsp edubuntu19:52
Lnsoh.. uni admin app? Like a control panel for all things edubuntu? profiles, lockdown... ?19:53
LnsHopefully it could work cross-UI though, at least at some point. XDG menu system seems to find ways to work cross-UI. Obviously we have different security mechanisms (gconf, etc) but i'm sure somehow it could be tied into this "subsystem" and make it fairly seamless19:55
alkisg...I tried putting ltsp into kubuntu jaunty alpha 3 today, no luck. Pity, the things he said about user management, lockdowns etc were pretty interesting19:58
Lnsalkisg: definitely20:00
LnsHas anyone actually done a deployment of KDE/LTSP here?20:01
ograLns, stgraber has20:04
ograLns, and he will tell you it was major pain :)20:04
Lnsogra: stgraber: What are the core issues? Obviously, Novell touts it, though I'm not sure how much they actually tout LTSP/KDE as much as Kiwi imaging/KDE20:05
ograalkisg, he holds the same talk since 4 years ... he's an OSS sales guy20:07
alkisgHeh :P20:08
ogratrying to sell kde to everyone doing promo talks20:08
LnsThat's the kind of feeling I got from him20:09
ogra(he is a nice guy, dont get me wrong, but his agressive marketing talks usually make me want to leave the room/channel)20:10
alkisgI wonder if he was typing that fast, or if he had a prepared "sales speech" :P20:11
alkisgBut really, after qt went lgpl, I'm thinking about trying kde...20:11
ograhe is typing as fast as he talks you into a corner :)20:11
ograits all training20:11
Lnsogra: training from where?20:12
ograform years of doing that20:12
Lnshaha.. ok20:12
ograhe had him at UDSes before20:13
LnsUsing Plasma on Gnome would require a major shift, no?20:15
Lnsit's obviously tied closely to qt20:16
ograLns, so you volunteer to port all of gnome to C++ ?20:19
Lnsogra: I don't even know what I'm talking about, much less you ;)20:20
LnsI'm just trying to grasp where plasma fits in with aaron's "vision"20:20
Lnsand what, exactly, he was trying to accomplish with us20:20
ograto switch edubuntu to kde20:20
nubaeI thought he brought up some good points, though carefully avoided ltsp20:20
Lnsmaybe we should suggest backing plasma out of KDE only so it can be cross-ui ;)20:21
nubaeright, which some on the edubuntu team might see as its future20:21
nubaewell kiosk tool would be nice for ltsp20:21
ograworking sabayon as well20:22
alkisgyeah, go go sbalneav20:22
ograthey are largely the same ...20:22
ograits just that one is maintained and the other isnt20:22
nubaeyeah true, I got a feeling though, from what he was saying, that more people are involved with working on kiosk tool20:22
LnsNot that it matters much, but like i'd mentioned the other day i'm using a simple menu-driven shell script to automate lots of functions in ltsp/multi-user ubuntu servers (such as distributing files to user homedirs based on group membership, firefox default/mandatory homepages based on group membership, easy updating of system/chroot, etc20:23
LnsIt's really not that difficult to do in a generic way20:23
alkisgLns, but what if you could do this with kuser?20:23
nubaeu got that stuff uploaded some place?20:23
alkisgSelect a bunch of users, right click and say "lock their wallpaper"?20:24
Lnsalkisg: sure, but that's tying into kde stuff. It'd be nice to have a generic tool so people have freedom of choice as much as possible20:24
nubaewell u can do that easily with zenity20:24
alkisgCould be also done with users-admin20:24
nubaezenity brings up windows which are dead easy to code20:24
alkisgThe users-selection is tool specific, but all the "what to do with the selected users" could be cross-distro20:25
nubaelike selecting mutliple files, users, etc20:25
Lnsnubae: ooooo!!!20:25
Lnszenity looks like something i'd love to get into20:25
nubaeyep, integrates directly into shell script20:25
alkisgnubae: pygtk and pyqt also do this, and maybe better20:25
nubaenot easier20:25
alkisgzenity is for smaller scripts, i think20:25
nubaenot really, y?20:26
AhmuckLns: i've done kde deployment yes20:26
nubaesure its not a programming language, its to help the shell script become windows based...20:26
Ahmuckwhat is kiwi imaging?20:26
nubaeperfect for what Lns mentioned20:26
LnsAhmuck: kind of like fatclient20:27
LnsAhmuck: so you do KDE under ubuntu/ltsp?20:27
alkisgnubae: I've started coding a users-admin replacement in pygtk, wanting to do all the things Lns said and even more, if anyone's interested we may try to implement it together...20:27
Lnsalkisg: i'd be interested in seeing what you have20:28
nubaesure, me too, but I think u might be reinventing the wheel a bit20:28
alkisgSo far I've got a users and a groups list with sorting/multiple selection, and I want to make a plugin based scripting system20:28
alkisgnubae: there's isn't a tool out there that enables me to select some users and execute a script for them20:28
alkisgAnd I really wonder why.20:29
Lnsnubae: reinventing from what?20:29
AhmuckLns: i've done kde under ubuntu/ltsp yes,20:29
nubaealkisg: that is literally 2 lines in zenity attached to a shell script20:30
Lnsnubae: lemme upload my script if you wanna take a look at it. Please don't laugh at it though. :)20:30
nubaealkisg: anyway, what I'm saying is, the existing admin tool could be modified to multi select20:30
alkisgnubae: users-admin? I don't think so!!! :)20:31
nubaeLns: I would never laugh20:31
nubaealkisg: y not?20:31
Lnsusers-admin doesn't even sort users/groups correctly (still).20:31
alkisgkuser, probably, but not users-admin20:31
ograalkisg, sure ...20:31
alkisgI tried contacting the author, no answer. It doesn't even support sorting, which is 1 line in C code20:31
ograjust a matter of the time you invest :P20:31
nubaeif its 1 line, then it should be easy20:31
alkisgogra, well, forks aren't good enough...20:32
ograalkisg, did you file an ubuntu bug ?20:32
alkisgNo... you thing that would help?20:32
ograi'm sure seb128 would be grateful to get patches, fixes and improvements20:32
ubottuLaunchpad bug 259163 in gnome-system-tools "users-admin does not sort when Name/Login/Homedir field clicked" [Wishlist,Confirmed]20:33
alkisgLns, good digging! :)20:33
alkisgmaybe the author is worried about  performance problems, but I really think he's just bored.20:33
Lnsalkisg: Look at who reported the bug. ;)20:33
ograalkisg, atach your fix there20:34
LnsI think it's funny marked as "Wishlist". Especially with the error it produces.20:34
nubaealkisg: isn't lazy enough... if he was lazier he'd take some one elses work and improve that...20:35
alkisgOk, I'll send a patch for sorting. But I don't think "calling a python/shell script with the selected users" will have chances of being accepted..20:35
Ahmuckk, i got to get back to work :)20:35
nubaedevs are usually lazy... thats why open source works20:35
LnsAhmuck: can you comment on KDE's stability/operability under LTSP?20:35
alkisgnubae: if you have a look at kuser, you won't want to even look users-admin anymore...20:36
Lnsesp. in larger ( > 10 users) deployments?20:36
Lnsalkisg: umm, that's really not true20:36
alkisgLns, really?20:36
LnsKUser has issues under Gnome that really baffle me..such as the .desktop file using KDE specific vars20:37
alkisgusers-admin even had problems not saving the modifications... not only UI problems20:37
Lnsit's madatory to manually modify it before you can even launch it20:37
alkisgWell, I meant kuser under KDE :)20:37
Lnsalkisg: bah20:38
LnsTrust me, these apps are ones my downstream techs have tested. They like KUser, because users-admin was broken. That doesnt' mean if the bugs in users-admin were fixed, they'd still want kuser.20:39
alkisgLns, kuser even supports ldap... is more stable... has better UI... there's really no comparison in my eyes!20:40
LnsIt's nice that it has LDAP integration, and lots of other little niceities, but the UI is very IWantToLookLikeWindowsUserManager... and I just hate linux apps that try to be windows apps20:40
alkisgThat's a KDE trent20:40
Lnsyeah, that's a shame. ;)20:40
nubaeoooo... Lost airs today...20:40
alkisgPeople even don't like italc because it looks windows-like... I don't mind, though.20:41
Lnsalkisg: my point is, things need to be generic enough to be usable in different environments. That is one of the core Linux/OSS philosophies. The second I start to see "Well, it works in KDE better" is the second I doubt the project's intentions20:42
nubaeLns: well stated20:42
LnsBecause everyone is different, and there is no doubt that people will always have their own setups. If you want a 'killer app' it can't be tied to a specific environment.20:43
Lnsunless it *is* the environment.20:43
nubaeLns: how do u manage all your deployments... I mean... like bugs/things to do/routines? u use some soft for that?20:43
Lnsnubae: I use "Sticky Notes" ;)20:44
alkisgLns: but how can an app that uses kde functions be also compatible with gnome functions? In some cases it'll be a total rewrite...20:44
Lnsjust a simple notepad app to track my TODO's. I use CentricCRM for ticketing, SSH for remote admin20:44
Lnsalkisg: if you're trying to support kde-only functions, then that's fine. but that's not what a user manager should be trying to do.20:45
Lnsnubae: I track bugs using LP20:45
alkisgLns: did you see the users-admin code? It's full of gnome-specific functions20:45
Lnsalkisg: I'm sure it does20:46
Lnsnot saying users-admin is the end all user mgmt tool... for that, i like adduser. ;)20:46
Lnsit integrates well into shell scripts, doesn't depend on much, and doesn't change much.20:47
alkisgEven addusers doesn't use /etc/login.defs and uses it's own file20:47
Lnsalkisg: so more on your replacement tool.. how far along is it?20:48
alkisgLns: not far enough, but if it's only going to support scripting, it won't need much :)20:49
alkisgBut if it'll also support importing users from .csv or ldap etc, then it hasn't even started yet :P20:50
nubaewell csv should be relatively easy20:50
nubaethat is, if it will run with a db20:50
Lnsnubae: http://pastebot.ltsp.org/19520:52
nubaeLns: thats very nice..20:54
LnsIt's incredibly beta, has no error handling (yet), only does a few specific things..but i see potential20:54
Lnsnubae: thank you20:54
Lnsi've worked hard on it so far with my limited bash knowledge20:54
Lnsbut i've always been a fan of console menu-driven interfaces (i get it from the good old DOS days)20:55
LnsWhich is why i might be looking into Python later20:55
nubaevery clean20:55
Lnsbut for now i want to learn bash as much as possible20:55
alkisgLns, in misctasks you still have recursion20:55
Lnsalkisg: oh, ty20:55
nubaewell that script is perfect for zenity20:55
Lnsnubae: sweet!20:56
LnsI'm thinking of forking this "custom" script into something i can put into my PPA, something like "District Admin" or something related to multi-user setups20:56
nubaetake a look: http://linux.byexamples.com/archives/265/a-complete-zenity-dialog-examples-2/20:56
Lnsnubae: wow, that looks super simple20:57
nubaeit is20:57
LnsI'll have to keep that bookmark and take a look at integrating it.20:57
nubaeu could put your entire menu system into a window based click and continue style20:57
Lnsnubae: that'd be nice, but i do see benefits for sticking with the console20:58
Lnssuch as in fixslowbug()20:58
nubaekde has something similar20:58
* ogra calls that "text adventure"20:58
nubaelol... true that it is20:58
Lnsogra: heh, yeah - see zork()20:58
nubaebut it works for certain tasks20:58
nubaeI actually thought about using zenity to create some educational content20:59
alkisgLns, how does dist() work? I don't see a "sudo", how does it copy the files?20:59
Lnsalkisg: ah, you pointed out a security issue iwth my script ;)21:00
LnsThe script itself runs sudo21:00
Lnsat least the way i set it up21:00
Lnsi know i have tons of sudo lines21:00
Lnsso it's doubling in.. i'll fix that though21:00
Lnsdo you have to use sudo in all commands in a pipe?21:01
alkisgAh... ok. My script also parses user-dirs.dirs to check if the users have localized "Documents" folders... wanna join forces? :)21:01
Lnsalkisg: i ran into that prob yesterday when the tech was testing it out - some ppl didn't have a "documents" folder so it copied the file as "Documents" into their homedir21:02
Lnssomething i haven't tackled yet21:02
Lnsalkisg: yeah, it'd be nice to have someone to work with on it21:03
alkisgYou could source ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs, then mkdir -p $XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR, and then copy the file to $XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR...21:04
LnsSince apparently there's no real way to set default homepages in FF2/3 globally, i'm going to implement something like dist() where it will set users' homepages based on group membership21:04
alkisg(I hate the localized folder names... it could be a UI thing, why did they do it a file system thing like windows? :()21:05
Lnsalkisg: ooo, nice. I'll probably do that! But what if there's none for a user?21:05
Lnsalkisg: agreed21:05
LnsThe layout of your homedir should be left up to you21:05
alkisgWell, then set a default XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR  = $HOME?21:05
Lnsthat'd work21:06
Lnsagain, though, i need to study each of these methods as i'm learning from the ground up basically21:06
alkisgLns: Oh, I forgot about the homepage thing, let me see how I did that...21:06
alkisg(and I'm really hungry for a pizza.. :P)21:06
Lnsalkisg: =p21:06
Lnsoffer is still on the table (no pun intended)21:07
alkisgLns: gksu gedit /usr/lib/firefox-*/defaults/profile/prefs.js21:07
alkisguser_pref("browser.startup.homepage", "http://students.sch.gr/");21:07
alkisgThat worked fine for me21:07
Lnsbut it has to be a FIX so the intended firefox.js browser.startup.homepage can be used21:07
Lnslemme try21:08
alkisgLns, for *new* users21:08
Lnsalkisg: :(21:08
alkisgYou'd have to delete the firefox settings for old users to have this21:08
alkisgAh, you need it to be mandatory?21:09
Lnsbut i think doing a group membership homepage that parses their profiles might be more flexible in the long run..though i'm sure a core fix for the "browser.startup.homepage" deal would be appreciated by everyone too21:10
Lnsit's crazy how such a simple goal is obfuscated so badly in firefox21:10
Lnsthere's like 10 different homepage "defaults" that are tied together in some spaghetti fashion that i dont think i'd ever understand21:11
alkisgWere there any bug reports for this?21:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 19033 in firefox "systemwide default startup homepage ignored" [Medium,Confirmed]21:12
LnsWow, just got this e-mail from one of my clients (an elementary school district) IT director: Since electrical bills are such a big piece of our operating budget, I am mandating that lab workstations and monitors be shut-down on Fridays effective immediately. It could become a daily routine in the future. Servers may be left on. Thanks.21:14
Lnsthat would be easy to automate in chroot cron..21:14
Lnsat least the workstation part, the monitors i dunno if you can do, anyone?21:15
Lnshrm, cron isnt' installed in chroot by default, but /etc/cron.* are there21:20

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