[02:39] <sbalneav> Evening all
[02:45] <Meshezabeel> evening sbalneav
[02:48] <Meshezabeel> is it all right to advertise on this channel?
[02:49] <sbalneav> Commercial products? No, probably not.
[02:49] <sbalneav> It's a development and support channel
[02:51] <Meshezabeel> yeah, actually I meant for a meeting for some oss educational software I am developing, I know it's off topic, so thought I'd ask ;)
[02:52] <Ahmuck> i'm curious what it is
[02:52] <Ahmuck> is it gpl ?
[02:53] <Meshezabeel> yes gpl
[02:53] <Meshezabeel> but Java
[02:54] <sbalneav> Well, if you're just going to announce that you're having a meeting for <name> in channel <channel>, and for interested people to pop by, THAT would be fine.
[02:55] <sbalneav> But if you're going to put on a blue shirt and a headset mic and start flogging ShamWow or SlapChop ("You're gonna love my nuts!!!") that might not be so good :)
[02:55] <Meshezabeel> okay, lol, I kind of started anyhow, so may as well finish, it is lanuage teaching software at http://nikamo.org (for teaching human languages)
[02:56] <Meshezabeel> I will be having a discussion meeting about the current development as well as what people would like to see. The meeting will be at #nikamo on Thursday at 7:30pm CST (8:30pm EST).
[02:56] <Meshezabeel> now...where did I leave that blue shirt?
[02:57] <Meshezabeel> :)
[02:57] <sbalneav> "Are you following me, camera guy?"
[02:57] <sbalneav> "You know the *germans* make good stuff"
[02:57] <sbalneav> etc.
[02:58] <Meshezabeel> hmm, you watch too many infomercials me thinks :) I don't even get the references there ;)
[02:59] <Ahmuck> i'm interested
[02:59] <Ahmuck> screenshots?
[03:00] <sbalneav> Hold on, gimme a sec :)
[03:00] <Ahmuck> Meshezabeel: my only problem is that many times i can't get java stuff to run properly
[03:00] <Meshezabeel> no actually, I have been a bit embarrased to post screen shots at the moment, because most of the pictures include me attempting to draw stick people, etc.
[03:00] <Meshezabeel> I did have an artist draw some pictures for me, but she was only temporary, and haven't found anyone else to replace her.
[03:01] <Meshezabeel> Ahmuck: in Ubuntu?
[03:01] <sbalneav> http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=QwRISkyV_B8
[03:02] <LaserJock> hi all
[03:02] <sbalneav> http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=rUbWjIKxrrs
[03:02] <Meshezabeel> You will generally have to have Sun's Java installed, there was a bug in OpenJDK with component spacing, but it is fixed in Jaunty's release. Then you can just right-click on the jar and say "Open with Sun's Java"
[03:02] <sbalneav> There's the inimitable Vince Offer, master huckster
[03:02] <sbalneav> Hey hey hey LaserJock
[03:02] <Ahmuck> sbalneav: not those screenshots
[03:03] <Meshezabeel> Heya LaserJock
[03:03] <sbalneav> I kinda like the intro I gave you this afternoon.
[03:03] <Ahmuck> ah, i'm on intrepid.  anything special i need to do there?
[03:03] <sbalneav> "Zap! It's LaserJock"
[03:03] <Ahmuck> try artrage forum.  they have a number of artist there
[03:03] <Meshezabeel> Ahmuck: you will need to install Sun's Java if you did not do so already
[03:04] <Meshezabeel> I think CGJ is currently the only 'Java' that comes with Ubuntu, and it is not really Java.
[03:05] <LaserJock> Meshezabeel: not true
[03:05] <Meshezabeel> LaserJock: it is true, I said "I think" :)
[03:05] <LaserJock> heh
[03:05] <LaserJock> cgj isn't the default Java anymore
[03:05] <Meshezabeel> LaserJock: OpenJDK?
[03:05] <LaserJock> openjdk is I believe
[03:06] <Ahmuck> Meshezabeel: what type of art do you need.  i may have found you an artist
[03:06] <Meshezabeel> LaserJock: OpenJDK has bugs in the Intrepid version with component spacing, so it is worthless right now, it is fixed in the Jaunty release
[03:07] <LaserJock> so we should maybe look into getting that fixed perhaps
[03:07] <Meshezabeel> Ahmuck: basically any type of art for teaching scenarios, such as body parts, objects, etc.
[03:08] <Meshezabeel> LaserJock: see the difference in vertical and horizontal spacing between OpenJDK and Sun's: http://imagebin.org/36361
[03:10] <Meshezabeel> Ahmuck: I already have some artwork for weather terms and some animals, etc., but that's about it.
[03:10] <Meshezabeel> sbalneav: you've sold me on the ShamWow, I just ordered 20 of them...it was only a limited time offer after all.
[03:14] <sbalneav> Watch the slapchop one.
[03:15] <sbalneav> Don't have a boring life!
[03:15] <sbalneav> You'll love Vince's nuts!
[03:15] <sbalneav> The best, best, *best* part is the blind backhand toss into the sink.
[03:15] <sbalneav> masterful.
[03:16] <sbalneav> LaserJock: oooooh
[03:16] <sbalneav> some niiiice patches in that link I got.
[03:17] <sbalneav> workin, workin...
[03:26] <Meshezabeel> "We're gonna make America skinny again...one slap at a time"
[03:27] <Meshezabeel> too bad I didn't spend all that money on the Shamwow, I would have bought this one too. :)
[03:28] <Ahmuck> Meshezabeel: think i found you an artist.  i would suspect he'll contact you via e-mail
[03:28] <Meshezabeel> wow awesome!!! Thank you Ahmuck :)
[03:31] <Ahmuck> http://www.google.com/intl/en/landing/prado/
[03:36] <Meshezabeel> Wow, that's amazing! I've never bothered with Google Earth before as I didn't really need it too often, and would use Google Maps, if I needed to look at the Earth. But I think I am going to have to download Google Earth now :)
[03:39] <Meshezabeel> There's an open source software called Celestia to get a 3-Dimensional view of the universe, I always thought this software could also be used with other 3D objects to teach other subjects kids would be interested in (such as dinosaurs, etc.).
[03:41] <LaserJock> hmm, interesting thought
[04:36] <LaserJock> nubae: around?
[04:36] <LaserJock> I was wondering what people thought would be a good "namespace" for the Universe app bundle package names
[04:37] <LaserJock> for Main I used ubuntu-edu-* to go along with the Ubuntu Education CD where they will end up
[04:42] <Meshezabeel> ubuntu-eduverse ;)
[04:43] <LaserJock> I was thinking of edubuntu-extras-*
[04:44] <LaserJock> to sort of show that we consider it the non-core extra stuff
[04:48] <Meshezabeel> The only thing is, it doesn't start with the same naming scheme as Main
[04:49] <Meshezabeel> Is this important, I dunno, but worth considering anyhow.
[04:49] <LaserJock> right, which I think is a good thing
[04:49] <LaserJock> well, I wanted to create some separation
[04:50] <Meshezabeel> okay, so ubuntu-edu would be like an external add-on to ubunutu. And edubuntu-... would be like an external add-on to edubuntu.
[04:51] <Meshezabeel> if 'external' is the right word to use
[04:52] <LaserJock> well, not exactly
[04:52] <LaserJock> ubuntu-edu would be an add-on to ubuntu, that's right
[04:52] <LaserJock> edubuntu- is also an add-on but not fully supported by Canonical and the Edubuntu community
[04:58] <Meshezabeel> I mean it could work, the only thing is that it does not follow the same approach that ubuntu itself follows, using the same 'namespace' for both main and universe
[04:58] <LaserJock> right, well, Ubuntu doesn't do what we do :(
[04:59] <Meshezabeel> indeed
[04:59] <LaserJock> I'm afraid if we're consistent the names are going to get really long
[04:59] <LaserJock> ubuntu-edu-extras-preschool, ubuntu-edu-extras-primary, etc.
[05:00] <Meshezabeel> yeah, I see your point
[05:00] <Meshezabeel> what about edubuntu-core for main?
[05:01] <LaserJock> well, I wanted to use ubuntu-edu because those packages are used for the Ubuntu Education CD
[05:01] <Meshezabeel> or just edubuntu for that matter
[05:01] <LaserJock> and well, I already uploaded them :-)
[05:01] <Meshezabeel> :)
[05:02] <Meshezabeel> Is the Ubuntu Education CD different from the Edubuntu Add-on CD?
[05:02] <LaserJock> no
[05:02] <LaserJock> we renamed it
[05:03] <LaserJock> to be more clear and accomidating to Canonical
[05:03] <Meshezabeel> ah, I see :)
[05:03] <LaserJock> who would like to use "Ubuntu Education" to market to OEMs and such
[05:03] <Meshezabeel> Yeah, I actually think that works better
[05:05] <LaserJock> we thought it would be a bit more understandable to people
[05:05] <Meshezabeel> yes, I agree
[05:58] <Ahmuck_Jr> http://pastebin.be/16203
[06:07] <Meshezabeel> Ahmuck_Jr: You are trying to install dansguardian when it is already installed?
[06:08] <Meshezabeel> Were you running under sudo? I assume so, but then again line 7 seems a bit interesting.
[06:10] <Ahmuck_Jr> yes.  default dans guardian on a clean box
[06:11] <Ahmuck_Jr> been using open dns as a test but it does not even come close to filtering properly
[06:12] <Meshezabeel> what is not filtering?
[06:18] <Meshezabeel> Ahmuck_Jr: this seems to be the closest thing related to it, and even that is an older version: http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-bugs-rc@lists.debian.org/msg86523.html
[06:20] <Meshezabeel> Anyhow, heading to bed, you can check out this link to (maybe you've done so already): http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-392356.html
[06:21] <Meshezabeel> night all
[06:42] <Ahmuck_Jr> i need to thank meshezabeel.  that last link was dead on
[14:51] <sbalneav> Morning all
[16:06] <Petaris> Hi all
[16:06] <Petaris> is there a way to see an entire X session from the LTSP server remotly?
[16:07] <Petaris> I ssh'd in with the -X option
[16:08] <Petaris> but what I really want is the login window
[16:08] <Petaris> I need to check some things and the server is in another building accross town
[16:10] <nubae> vnc
[16:10] <nubae> or rdp
[16:10] <nubae> or citrix
[16:11] <nubae> u need vnc installed in the client of course
[16:11] <Ahmuck> no machine ?
[16:12] <Ahmuck> good morning
[16:12] <Petaris> hrm, I thought that this was possible without vnc
[16:12]  * Ahmuck looks for his cot to sleep this morning
[16:12] <nubae> a whole session? dont believe so
[16:12] <nubae> -X is for individual apps
[16:12] <Petaris> ok
[16:12] <nubae> unless u could start gdm or something
[16:13] <nubae> never tried, it might work
[16:13] <Petaris> I thought ogra had me do it once
[16:13] <nubae> try the #ltsp channel
[16:13] <nubae> more ltsp geeks there
[16:13] <Petaris> ok
[16:13] <Petaris> will do
[16:13] <Petaris> thanks
[16:41] <Ahmuck> noticed the edubuntu brainstorm idea on meusems.  i think i could put togather a photo tour for edubuntu of a book called "sod and stubble" about life on the prarie in the early 1900's
[16:42] <Ahmuck> the meusuem idea could be further done with a html app that would allow you to look at meuseum links having a short description and a photo next to it
[16:47] <Ahmuck> our tourism council and historical society has a multimedia presentation we would be happy to have a link to.
[16:47] <Ahmuck> actually, my bad, not sod and stubble, but sod house days, a book of letters between a kansas homesteader and otheras back east
[16:50] <Ahmuck> the meusem/history idea has potential for canocial in that if canocial would support a ecuatiocaonl centric web site with catagories, they could charge to have sites listed.  the site would need to be catogoriazed, for instance in my case under the catagore about kansas
[16:50] <Ahmuck> and settlers or homesteading.  think of it as a visual library and/or visual history presentation
[16:50] <Ahmuck> or would this be better served with wikipedia?
[16:51] <Ahmuck> http://www.amazon.com/Sod-House-Days-Letters-Homesteader-1877-78/dp/0700602348/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232556515&sr=8-1
[16:52]  * Ahmuck likes history
[16:58] <sbalneav> One of the suggestions we've had in the past is an "offline" wikipedia.
[16:59] <sbalneav> Which, oddly enough, isn't THAT terribly hard to do, other than the fact that it involves a lot of data.
[17:03] <nubae> sbalneav: that already exists for the xo
[17:03] <nubae> called wikislices
[17:03] <nubae> its actually quite good and mature
[17:05] <sbalneav> I know it's out there, but we've never bothered to do anything about it simply because of the sheer amount of data that we'd have to package up.
[17:13] <Ahmuck> is it possible to create a mechanism where meuseum x has to provide thier own packaging?
[17:13] <Ahmuck> and then go through approval?
[17:14] <Ahmuck> a repository thorugh edubuntu would be a gold mine for schools, particuallry if local venues could contribute.  there is a lot of local history and funny stories type of things that i find most interesting.
[17:18] <nubae> I think its difficult to put the name edubuntu or ubuntu-edu to anything but the packages officially in main and universe
[17:20] <sbalneav> A museum wanting to provide content could certainly sign up for a launchpad account and create a Personal Package Archive where they could post their own stuff, for sure.
[17:20] <sbalneav> As for making it something that "automatically" gets included on every Edubuntu box, that would be a no-go.
[17:21] <sbalneav> What would stop a malicious user from simply posting packages that do damage, install sniffers, etc.
[17:24] <Ahmuck> well, not packages ... but website hosting
[17:24] <Ahmuck> multimedia hosting
[17:24] <Ahmuck> actually, nm, i have a better idea how to implment the idea
[17:37] <nubae> reminds me of the guy that came on some time ago, wanting to create a repo of lesson plans and applications on his own site...
[17:37] <nubae> wonder whatever happened to him... he had grand ideas
[17:37] <nubae> sbalneav: remember?
[17:43] <Ahmuck> a repo of lesson plans?
[17:43] <sbalneav> yup
[17:43] <Ahmuck> actually, i've got a way to implment the meusum idea.
[17:43] <sbalneav> I hate to sound like a grizzled old crank but...
[17:43] <Ahmuck> i think i'm going to try and do it here locally
[17:44] <sbalneav> We see it a lot in the free software world
[17:44] <Ahmuck> i'll tuck the repo of lesson plans idea under my to do list with a sticky note
[17:44] <sbalneav> People with fan-freakin-tastic ideas who will save the world, if only we'd drop everything, listen to them, and do all their bidding.
[17:45] <Ahmuck> heh, and there is where the differnence is.  peolpe really don't need to do peoples bidding.  it's about the power of the hive
[17:45] <Ahmuck> like bees or ants
[17:45] <sbalneav> When you actually say "Well, roll up your sleaves and show us how it's done!" they quietly... sneak... away...
[17:45] <Ahmuck> heh, not me
[17:45] <sbalneav> Everybody wants to be queen bee.
[17:46] <sbalneav> nobody wants to be a worker bee. :)
[17:46] <Ahmuck> i've got this meusem idea down i think.  we'll see if i can put it togather
[17:46] <Ahmuck> without worker bees the queen starves to death :)
[17:46] <Ahmuck> and the hive dies
[17:46] <sbalneav> yessir.
[17:46] <sbalneav> exactly
[17:46]  * Ahmuck raises bees
[17:46]  * sbalneav enjoys honey
[17:46] <sbalneav> cheers!
[17:46] <Ahmuck> organic bees
[17:47] <sbalneav> Anywho, off for lunch, be back in a bit.
[17:47] <Ahmuck> most honey is diluted with sugar water and has all kinds of anti-biotics in it
[17:54] <Ahmuck> sbalneav: the guy with the lesson plans had the plans and had done the work, but was looking for someone to set up the host for the repo because he/she did not know how to do that.  expecting him/her to do so would be like expecting an car mechanic to paint a michangelo.  it simply not in his/her skill set
[17:55] <Ahmuck> my skill set is matching people and resources.  if you have his nick or email address i might be interested in connecting with him/her
[17:55] <Ahmuck> his lesson plans would be a good start
[17:55] <Ahmuck> i do the tech stuff to keep me from being bored
[17:57] <LaserJock> no RichEd?
[17:57] <Lns> we're meeting in #ubuntu-meeting, right?
[17:57] <LaserJock> yeah
[17:57] <LaserJock> in ~ 3min
[17:57] <nubae> wow is it already that time?
[17:57] <Lns> coolio
[17:58] <nubae> time flies
[17:58]  * Lns waves to nubae, all
[17:58] <nubae> I just sold ubuntu to 2 schools here... they will migrate both locations to Linux and edubuntu entirely ;-)
[17:58] <Lns> nubae: niiice!!
[17:59] <Lns> nubae: LTSP, or ?
[17:59] <nubae> wasnt hard convincing, since the sysadmin there was a linux geek already
[17:59] <nubae> yeah LTSP
[17:59] <Lns> that is awesome
[17:59] <nubae> he was already running 2 kiosks with opera (ltsp 4.2)
[17:59] <nubae> I told him things have come a long way since then
[18:00] <nubae> and that u wanna use the full power of the desktop
[18:00] <Ahmuck> how do you sell to schools?  i've not had great experiences with ltsp yet
[18:00] <nubae> well, usually its a slow process
[18:00] <nubae> but if there are linux guys on board... then its easy
[18:01] <Ahmuck> i'd have trouble selling it, because i have not seen it work as well as i expected it to
[18:01] <LaserJock> stgraber, sbalneav : you guys around?
[18:01] <LaserJock> morgs: available for an Edubuntu meeting?
[18:01] <nubae> well, it requires an experienced ltsp user for the admin side right now, for sure
[18:01] <Ahmuck> in the school, correct?
[18:01] <nubae> well, at least to be able to setup the system
[18:02] <nubae> after, its not really needed
[18:02] <nubae> LaserJock: sbalneav is out to Lunch I believe
[18:02] <Ahmuck> our schools have k-12 max of 300 students.  it's hard enough to pay for general school stuff let alone hire an admin for the shcool.  our local school advertise three times before getting a tech and he left with physc problems
[18:02] <LaserJock> nubae: heh
[18:03] <nubae> and I just spoke to morgs on gtalk, so he should be around
[18:03] <Ahmuck> i'd be really interested in pushing ltsp and edubunt to schools, but i'm hesitant to do so
[18:03] <nubae> Ahmuck, why?
[18:03] <morgs> pong
[18:03] <morgs> LaserJock: here?
[18:03] <Ahmuck> there are a number of reasons.  one is content filtering.  i've not tried dans guardian yet though
[18:04] <nubae> dansguardian is very easy to setup
[18:04] <nubae> just requires some time to go through the lists
[18:04] <Ahmuck> we have a school of about 1000+ students here that uses open office, gimp, and scribus.  they are still on ms os platforms however, but i don't think it would take much to convince them to switch
[18:05] <LaserJock> morgs: in #ubuntu-meeting
[18:05] <Ahmuck> and there is the new president, who is going to dump lots of money into edu.  if ms offers low prices and there is govt money, that's another hurdle to clear
[18:06] <Lns> Ahmuck: we just need to keep in mind that our tech is pretty much miles ahead of MS's  as far as edu setups go
[18:08] <Ahmuck> i've not seen ms stuff.  i'm a linux peep only.  i don't even know what adobe stuff looks like
[18:08] <Ahmuck> if someone could dig up the nick for the guy with the  lesson plans i might consider looking into it
[18:08] <Lns> ogra: you going to join into #ubuntu-meeting, or are you busy?
[18:08] <ogra> i'm quite busy but can be available on request to answer one or the other thing
[18:09] <Lns> ok, thx ogra  :)
[19:09] <Ahmuck> does abiword output to *.doc?
[19:09] <nubae> yes
[19:09] <Ahmuck> 97/2000/xp ?
[19:10] <highvoltage> I thought upstream evince had all the olpc stuff in now?
[19:10] <nubae> Ahmuck yep
[19:11] <nubae> nah Tomeu is still chasing them I think
[19:11] <morgs> highvoltage: we've been using a custom sugar-evince package in the fedora-ish OLPC distro
[19:11] <morgs> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Evince tracks the upstreaming
[19:46] <highvoltage> g'night edubuntu'ers
[19:47] <Lns> night, highvoltage
[19:47] <LaserJock> ok, I'm done for today for IRC I think
[19:48] <LaserJock> please try to post as much stuff to edubuntu-devel as you can in terms of things we need to think about or get done for Jaunty
[19:48] <LaserJock> thanks everybody, you guys rock!
[19:49] <Lns> So what's the verdict on the Plasma in Edubuntu thing? Was whatshisface just looking to start collaborating with us, or is he looking to migrate edubuntu stuff to plasma, or... ?
[19:52] <Ahmuck> i think he was explaining how plasma worked and how easy it would be to create a uni admin app for ltsp edubuntu
[19:53] <Ahmuck> bbl
[19:53] <Lns> oh.. uni admin app? Like a control panel for all things edubuntu? profiles, lockdown... ?
[19:55] <Lns> Hopefully it could work cross-UI though, at least at some point. XDG menu system seems to find ways to work cross-UI. Obviously we have different security mechanisms (gconf, etc) but i'm sure somehow it could be tied into this "subsystem" and make it fairly seamless
[19:58] <alkisg> ...I tried putting ltsp into kubuntu jaunty alpha 3 today, no luck. Pity, the things he said about user management, lockdowns etc were pretty interesting
[20:00] <Lns> alkisg: definitely
[20:01] <Lns> Has anyone actually done a deployment of KDE/LTSP here?
[20:04] <ogra> Lns, stgraber has
[20:04] <ogra> Lns, and he will tell you it was major pain :)
[20:05] <Lns> ogra: stgraber: What are the core issues? Obviously, Novell touts it, though I'm not sure how much they actually tout LTSP/KDE as much as Kiwi imaging/KDE
[20:07] <ogra> alkisg, he holds the same talk since 4 years ... he's an OSS sales guy
[20:08] <alkisg> Heh :P
[20:08] <ogra> trying to sell kde to everyone doing promo talks
[20:09] <Lns> That's the kind of feeling I got from him
[20:10] <ogra> (he is a nice guy, dont get me wrong, but his agressive marketing talks usually make me want to leave the room/channel)
[20:11] <alkisg> I wonder if he was typing that fast, or if he had a prepared "sales speech" :P
[20:11] <alkisg> But really, after qt went lgpl, I'm thinking about trying kde...
[20:11] <ogra> he is typing as fast as he talks you into a corner :)
[20:11] <ogra> its all training
[20:12] <Lns> ogra: training from where?
[20:12] <ogra> form years of doing that
[20:12] <Lns> haha.. ok
[20:13] <ogra> he had him at UDSes before
[20:15] <Lns> Using Plasma on Gnome would require a major shift, no?
[20:16] <Lns> it's obviously tied closely to qt
[20:19] <ogra> Lns, so you volunteer to port all of gnome to C++ ?
[20:20] <Lns> ogra: I don't even know what I'm talking about, much less you ;)
[20:20] <Lns> I'm just trying to grasp where plasma fits in with aaron's "vision"
[20:20] <Lns> and what, exactly, he was trying to accomplish with us
[20:20] <ogra> to switch edubuntu to kde
[20:20] <nubae> I thought he brought up some good points, though carefully avoided ltsp
[20:21] <Lns> maybe we should suggest backing plasma out of KDE only so it can be cross-ui ;)
[20:21] <nubae> right, which some on the edubuntu team might see as its future
[20:21] <nubae> well kiosk tool would be nice for ltsp
[20:22] <ogra> working sabayon as well
[20:22] <alkisg> yeah, go go sbalneav
[20:22] <ogra> they are largely the same ...
[20:22] <ogra> its just that one is maintained and the other isnt
[20:22] <nubae> yeah true, I got a feeling though, from what he was saying, that more people are involved with working on kiosk tool
[20:23] <Lns> Not that it matters much, but like i'd mentioned the other day i'm using a simple menu-driven shell script to automate lots of functions in ltsp/multi-user ubuntu servers (such as distributing files to user homedirs based on group membership, firefox default/mandatory homepages based on group membership, easy updating of system/chroot, etc
[20:23] <Lns> It's really not that difficult to do in a generic way
[20:23] <alkisg> Lns, but what if you could do this with kuser?
[20:23] <nubae> u got that stuff uploaded some place?
[20:24] <alkisg> Select a bunch of users, right click and say "lock their wallpaper"?
[20:24] <Lns> alkisg: sure, but that's tying into kde stuff. It'd be nice to have a generic tool so people have freedom of choice as much as possible
[20:24] <nubae> well u can do that easily with zenity
[20:24] <alkisg> Could be also done with users-admin
[20:24] <Lns> ugh..users-admin
[20:24] <nubae> zenity brings up windows which are dead easy to code
[20:25] <alkisg> The users-selection is tool specific, but all the "what to do with the selected users" could be cross-distro
[20:25] <nubae> like selecting mutliple files, users, etc
[20:25] <Lns> nubae: ooooo!!!
[20:25] <Lns> zenity looks like something i'd love to get into
[20:25] <nubae> yep, integrates directly into shell script
[20:25] <alkisg> nubae: pygtk and pyqt also do this, and maybe better
[20:25] <nubae> not easier
[20:25] <alkisg> zenity is for smaller scripts, i think
[20:26] <nubae> not really, y?
[20:26] <Ahmuck> Lns: i've done kde deployment yes
[20:26] <nubae> sure its not a programming language, its to help the shell script become windows based...
[20:26] <Ahmuck> what is kiwi imaging?
[20:26] <nubae> perfect for what Lns mentioned
[20:27] <Lns> Ahmuck: kind of like fatclient
[20:27] <Lns> Ahmuck: so you do KDE under ubuntu/ltsp?
[20:27] <alkisg> nubae: I've started coding a users-admin replacement in pygtk, wanting to do all the things Lns said and even more, if anyone's interested we may try to implement it together...
[20:28] <Lns> alkisg: i'd be interested in seeing what you have
[20:28] <nubae> sure, me too, but I think u might be reinventing the wheel a bit
[20:28] <alkisg> So far I've got a users and a groups list with sorting/multiple selection, and I want to make a plugin based scripting system
[20:28] <alkisg> nubae: there's isn't a tool out there that enables me to select some users and execute a script for them
[20:29] <alkisg> And I really wonder why.
[20:29] <Lns> nubae: reinventing from what?
[20:29] <Ahmuck> Lns: i've done kde under ubuntu/ltsp yes,
[20:30] <nubae> alkisg: that is literally 2 lines in zenity attached to a shell script
[20:30] <Lns> nubae: lemme upload my script if you wanna take a look at it. Please don't laugh at it though. :)
[20:30] <nubae> alkisg: anyway, what I'm saying is, the existing admin tool could be modified to multi select
[20:31] <alkisg> nubae: users-admin? I don't think so!!! :)
[20:31] <nubae> Lns: I would never laugh
[20:31] <nubae> alkisg: y not?
[20:31] <Lns> users-admin doesn't even sort users/groups correctly (still).
[20:31] <alkisg> kuser, probably, but not users-admin
[20:31] <ogra> alkisg, sure ...
[20:31] <alkisg> I tried contacting the author, no answer. It doesn't even support sorting, which is 1 line in C code
[20:31] <ogra> just a matter of the time you invest :P
[20:31] <nubae> if its 1 line, then it should be easy
[20:32] <alkisg> ogra, well, forks aren't good enough...
[20:32] <ogra> alkisg, did you file an ubuntu bug ?
[20:32] <alkisg> No... you thing that would help?
[20:32] <ogra> i'm sure seb128 would be grateful to get patches, fixes and improvements
[20:33] <Lns> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/259163
[20:33] <alkisg> Lns, good digging! :)
[20:33] <alkisg> maybe the author is worried about  performance problems, but I really think he's just bored.
[20:33] <Lns> alkisg: Look at who reported the bug. ;)
[20:34] <ogra> alkisg, atach your fix there
[20:34] <alkisg> Heh!!!
[20:34] <Lns> I think it's funny marked as "Wishlist". Especially with the error it produces.
[20:35] <nubae> alkisg: isn't lazy enough... if he was lazier he'd take some one elses work and improve that...
[20:35] <alkisg> Ok, I'll send a patch for sorting. But I don't think "calling a python/shell script with the selected users" will have chances of being accepted..
[20:35] <Ahmuck> k, i got to get back to work :)
[20:35] <nubae> devs are usually lazy... thats why open source works
[20:35] <Lns> Ahmuck: can you comment on KDE's stability/operability under LTSP?
[20:36] <alkisg> nubae: if you have a look at kuser, you won't want to even look users-admin anymore...
[20:36] <Lns> esp. in larger ( > 10 users) deployments?
[20:36] <Lns> alkisg: umm, that's really not true
[20:36] <alkisg> Lns, really?
[20:37] <Lns> KUser has issues under Gnome that really baffle me..such as the .desktop file using KDE specific vars
[20:37] <alkisg> users-admin even had problems not saving the modifications... not only UI problems
[20:37] <Lns> it's madatory to manually modify it before you can even launch it
[20:37] <alkisg> Well, I meant kuser under KDE :)
[20:38] <Lns> alkisg: bah
[20:39] <Lns> Trust me, these apps are ones my downstream techs have tested. They like KUser, because users-admin was broken. That doesnt' mean if the bugs in users-admin were fixed, they'd still want kuser.
[20:40] <alkisg> Lns, kuser even supports ldap... is more stable... has better UI... there's really no comparison in my eyes!
[20:40] <Lns> It's nice that it has LDAP integration, and lots of other little niceities, but the UI is very IWantToLookLikeWindowsUserManager... and I just hate linux apps that try to be windows apps
[20:40] <alkisg> That's a KDE trent
[20:40] <alkisg> trend
[20:40] <Lns> yeah, that's a shame. ;)
[20:40] <nubae> oooo... Lost airs today...
[20:41] <alkisg> People even don't like italc because it looks windows-like... I don't mind, though.
[20:42] <Lns> alkisg: my point is, things need to be generic enough to be usable in different environments. That is one of the core Linux/OSS philosophies. The second I start to see "Well, it works in KDE better" is the second I doubt the project's intentions
[20:42] <nubae> Lns: well stated
[20:43] <Lns> Because everyone is different, and there is no doubt that people will always have their own setups. If you want a 'killer app' it can't be tied to a specific environment.
[20:43] <Lns> unless it *is* the environment.
[20:43] <nubae> Lns: how do u manage all your deployments... I mean... like bugs/things to do/routines? u use some soft for that?
[20:44] <Lns> nubae: I use "Sticky Notes" ;)
[20:44] <alkisg> Lns: but how can an app that uses kde functions be also compatible with gnome functions? In some cases it'll be a total rewrite...
[20:44] <nubae> lol
[20:44] <Lns> just a simple notepad app to track my TODO's. I use CentricCRM for ticketing, SSH for remote admin
[20:45] <Lns> alkisg: if you're trying to support kde-only functions, then that's fine. but that's not what a user manager should be trying to do.
[20:45] <Lns> nubae: I track bugs using LP
[20:45] <alkisg> Lns: did you see the users-admin code? It's full of gnome-specific functions
[20:46] <Lns> alkisg: I'm sure it does
[20:46] <Lns> not saying users-admin is the end all user mgmt tool... for that, i like adduser. ;)
[20:47] <Lns> it integrates well into shell scripts, doesn't depend on much, and doesn't change much.
[20:47] <alkisg> Even addusers doesn't use /etc/login.defs and uses it's own file
[20:48] <Lns> alkisg: so more on your replacement tool.. how far along is it?
[20:49] <alkisg> Lns: not far enough, but if it's only going to support scripting, it won't need much :)
[20:50] <alkisg> But if it'll also support importing users from .csv or ldap etc, then it hasn't even started yet :P
[20:50] <nubae> well csv should be relatively easy
[20:50] <nubae> that is, if it will run with a db
[20:52] <Lns> nubae: http://pastebot.ltsp.org/195
[20:54] <nubae> Lns: thats very nice..
[20:54] <Lns> It's incredibly beta, has no error handling (yet), only does a few specific things..but i see potential
[20:54] <Lns> nubae: thank you
[20:54] <Lns> i've worked hard on it so far with my limited bash knowledge
[20:55] <Lns> but i've always been a fan of console menu-driven interfaces (i get it from the good old DOS days)
[20:55] <Lns> Which is why i might be looking into Python later
[20:55] <nubae> very clean
[20:55] <Lns> but for now i want to learn bash as much as possible
[20:55] <alkisg> Lns, in misctasks you still have recursion
[20:55] <Lns> alkisg: oh, ty
[20:55] <nubae> well that script is perfect for zenity
[20:56] <Lns> nubae: sweet!
[20:56] <Lns> I'm thinking of forking this "custom" script into something i can put into my PPA, something like "District Admin" or something related to multi-user setups
[20:56] <nubae> take a look: http://linux.byexamples.com/archives/265/a-complete-zenity-dialog-examples-2/
[20:57] <Lns> nubae: wow, that looks super simple
[20:57] <nubae> it is
[20:57] <Lns> I'll have to keep that bookmark and take a look at integrating it.
[20:57] <nubae> u could put your entire menu system into a window based click and continue style
[20:58] <Lns> nubae: that'd be nice, but i do see benefits for sticking with the console
[20:58] <Lns> such as in fixslowbug()
[20:58] <nubae> kde has something similar
[20:58]  * ogra calls that "text adventure"
[20:58] <nubae> lol... true that it is
[20:58] <Lns> ogra: heh, yeah - see zork()
[20:58] <nubae> but it works for certain tasks
[20:59] <nubae> I actually thought about using zenity to create some educational content
[20:59] <alkisg> Lns, how does dist() work? I don't see a "sudo", how does it copy the files?
[21:00] <Lns> alkisg: ah, you pointed out a security issue iwth my script ;)
[21:00] <Lns> The script itself runs sudo
[21:00] <Lns> at least the way i set it up
[21:00] <Lns> i know i have tons of sudo lines
[21:00] <Lns> so it's doubling in.. i'll fix that though
[21:01] <Lns> do you have to use sudo in all commands in a pipe?
[21:01] <alkisg> Ah... ok. My script also parses user-dirs.dirs to check if the users have localized "Documents" folders... wanna join forces? :)
[21:02] <Lns> alkisg: i ran into that prob yesterday when the tech was testing it out - some ppl didn't have a "documents" folder so it copied the file as "Documents" into their homedir
[21:02] <Lns> something i haven't tackled yet
[21:03] <Lns> alkisg: yeah, it'd be nice to have someone to work with on it
[21:04] <alkisg> You could source ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs, then mkdir -p $XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR, and then copy the file to $XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR...
[21:04] <Lns> Since apparently there's no real way to set default homepages in FF2/3 globally, i'm going to implement something like dist() where it will set users' homepages based on group membership
[21:05] <alkisg> (I hate the localized folder names... it could be a UI thing, why did they do it a file system thing like windows? :()
[21:05] <Lns> alkisg: ooo, nice. I'll probably do that! But what if there's none for a user?
[21:05] <Lns> alkisg: agreed
[21:05] <Lns> The layout of your homedir should be left up to you
[21:05] <alkisg> Well, then set a default XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR  = $HOME?
[21:06] <Lns> that'd work
[21:06] <Lns> again, though, i need to study each of these methods as i'm learning from the ground up basically
[21:06] <alkisg> Lns: Oh, I forgot about the homepage thing, let me see how I did that...
[21:06] <alkisg> (and I'm really hungry for a pizza.. :P)
[21:06] <Lns> alkisg: =p
[21:07] <Lns> offer is still on the table (no pun intended)
[21:07] <alkisg> Lns: gksu gedit /usr/lib/firefox-*/defaults/profile/prefs.js
[21:07] <alkisg> user_pref("browser.startup.homepage", "http://students.sch.gr/");
[21:07] <alkisg> That worked fine for me
[21:07] <Lns> but it has to be a FIX so the intended firefox.js browser.startup.homepage can be used
[21:08] <Lns> hm
[21:08] <Lns> lemme try
[21:08] <alkisg> Lns, for *new* users
[21:08] <Lns> alkisg: :(
[21:08] <alkisg> You'd have to delete the firefox settings for old users to have this
[21:09] <Lns> booo
[21:09] <alkisg> Ah, you need it to be mandatory?
[21:09] <Lns> yes
[21:10] <Lns> but i think doing a group membership homepage that parses their profiles might be more flexible in the long run..though i'm sure a core fix for the "browser.startup.homepage" deal would be appreciated by everyone too
[21:10] <Lns> it's crazy how such a simple goal is obfuscated so badly in firefox
[21:11] <Lns> there's like 10 different homepage "defaults" that are tied together in some spaghetti fashion that i dont think i'd ever understand
[21:11] <alkisg> Were there any bug reports for this?
[21:11] <Lns> heh...yes
[21:12] <Lns> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/19033
[21:14] <Lns> Wow, just got this e-mail from one of my clients (an elementary school district) IT director: Since electrical bills are such a big piece of our operating budget, I am mandating that lab workstations and monitors be shut-down on Fridays effective immediately. It could become a daily routine in the future. Servers may be left on. Thanks.
[21:14] <Lns> that would be easy to automate in chroot cron..
[21:15] <Lns> at least the workstation part, the monitors i dunno if you can do, anyone?
[21:20] <Lns> hrm, cron isnt' installed in chroot by default, but /etc/cron.* are there