=== pgraner is now known as pgraner-afk
=== txwikinger is now known as txwikinger_work
=== txwikinger_work is now known as txwikinger
=== txwikinger is now known as txwikinger3
=== txwikinger3 is now known as txwikinger_work
=== txwikinger_work is now known as txwikinger
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== neversfelde_ is now known as neversfelde
=== pgraner-afk is now known as pgraner
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
=== smarter_ is now known as smarter
* robbiew looks around for his friend, Mootbot15:58
* james_w waves15:58
TheMusoGreetings all.15:58
* robbiew waves15:58
* mvo waves15:59
* robbiew steps away for a min16:00
robbiewbe back16:00
* robbiew returns16:01
robbiewso...I see slangasek, james_w, TheMuso, mvo, and evand16:02
robbiewand liw16:02
robbiewKeybuck, cjwatson, and doko...here?16:02
robbiewcjwatson: hello sir :)16:03
cjwatsonsorry, dropped off this channel when I rebooted my server16:03
robbiewno worries16:03
robbiewjust starting16:03
robbiewanyone know why Mootbot is gone?16:03
robbiewnot that I miss it terribly :P16:03
Keybukrobbiew: yup, just finished a call with Ken16:03
robbiewKeybuk: ah..ok16:04
robbiewKeybuk: any clarity on provided?16:04
robbiewFYI - Agenda is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/012116:04
robbiewto be specific16:04
Keybukrobbiew: Ken is going to go back to Intel to find out what the agenda for the call will be, and what deliverables they expect16:05
* mvo mubbles something that he is also in the developer week :)16:05
* robbiew corrects16:06
robbiewslangasek, cjwatson: LTS looking good?16:06
robbiew(fingers crossed)16:06
cjwatsonthere was a glitch affecting upgrades from un-upgraded 8.04 systems (missing Priority fields in the Packages files on the CD, which broke python-apt; mvo added robustness to python-apt a while back, but that wasn't in hardy as released, and the missing fields were a bug anyway)16:07
* robbiew assumes the 26 bugs still there will move to the next update16:07
cjwatsonI fixed that this morning and Dave Morley has confirmed that upgrades are now good16:07
slangasekthat does mean I've woken up to find that another round of ISO testing is required, but otherwise everything's good. :)16:07
mvothanks for fixing this cjwatson16:07
cjwatsonother than that slangasek has been emitting generally content vibes16:07
cjwatson(afaict ...)16:07
doko_had the gcc-4.3/libgomp issue fixed, I think it's pending review16:08
cjwatsondoko_: it'll be for .3 now, but thanks for that16:08
davmor2slangasek: cjwatson: did you let server team know to retest?16:08
* mvo a pending "fix" for the version number display for .3 as well16:08
cjwatsonslangasek: any word on certification?16:08
slangasekdavmor2: not yet, I've been up for all of 15 minutes...16:08
cjwatsondavmor2: not yet, will do though16:08
slangasekcjwatson: I have partial cert results, will prod for the rest today16:09
robbiewwe should also all admire cjwatson's beautiful work on the manifest list as well ;)16:09
slangasekrobbiew: 26 bugs> yes, those bug states will be sorted today16:09
robbiewslangasek: ok, thnx16:10
cjwatsonmdz has recommended a few more changes to that manifest, but it's not too bad now16:10
cjwatsonbetter not be, it took me nearly two full days ;-)16:10
robbiewis there a way to keep it somewhat up-to-date as bugs get addressed?16:11
robbiewthinking about how to make it easier16:11
slangasekrolling it into the procedure when archive admins copy SRUs is the only thing I see16:12
slangasekmy fear is that this will make archive admins less inclined to copy SRUs due to the added time committment, though16:13
cjwatsonme too, and we'd have to correlate it with the list of all updates that had been released so far in order to cope with cases where people forgot to do them16:13
cjwatsonit would have helped to have an authoritative list of changelogs that actually ended up in -updates relative to .116:13
cjwatsonI had to cobble it together from hardy-changes and the archive's status16:14
cjwatson(because hardy-changes also includes proposed updates that failed verification)16:14
cjwatsonwe could probably do some worthwhile scripting work before .3 to make the job easier16:14
robbiewok.  just figuring you don't want to spend 2+ days doing the same thing for .316:14
cjwatsoneven just "compare .2 and -updates, dump out all changelog deltas" would help16:14
cjwatsondefinitely not16:15
cjwatsonI did add a .madison-lite/config in ~/point-releases/ on cocoplum so that archive admins can use 'm --config-file ~/point-releases/.madison-lite/config' to see versions of packages in point releases16:15
cjwatsonmight add that to the main config at some point16:16
robbiewok, so hopefully no last minute surprises16:17
robbiewand .2 goes out on schedule16:17
* robbiew probably just jinxed it16:17
robbiewmoving on...Distro sprint team agenda16:17
robbiew"agenda" is used loosely at this point16:17
robbiewmore like topics of discussion16:18
james_wit looks like Scott's agenda currently :-)16:18
robbiewheh...I have some stuff in there16:18
robbiewwell...just crossed out stuff16:18
mvoI need to add stuff there too, looks like the merge of the quirks code with lars is a good time16:19
evandAnyone know if Julian's whole team will be there, or just mpt?  I'd ideally like to sit down with kwwii and work out some bits on the new timezone map and installer slideshow, but can always do that online if need-be.16:19
mvo(and getting a chance to talk to people who know more about aufs)16:19
TheMusoAnybody got notebook audio issues, I'll attempt to take a stab at helping solve them.16:19
robbiewevand: I think the whole team is there16:19
robbiewevand: but you should probably check with kwii16:20
mvoTheMuso: I have desktop audio issues currently (but I guess that does not count :)16:20
evandwill do16:20
robbiewmvo: unless you want to bring your desktop16:20
mvoeh ... no :P16:20
TheMusomvo: Not for the sprint, but in general it doess. I'd be interested in hearing about them.16:20
slangasekthat's good; I sent Julian a request earlier for some of kwwii's time to do up an icon for pam-auth-update, which is blocking having that in the System->Administration menu currently16:20
slangaseknever heard back :(16:20
mvoTheMuso: ok, I will ping you after the meeting16:21
robbiewso I'll be working on the agenda, and having these items on the wiki will help16:21
TheMusomvo: Ok no problem.16:21
cjwatsonI may well have some server installer items, but I'm holding off putting them on the agenda for a few days to give myself a better idea of what I'm going to be able to solve before then16:21
robbiewjust throw stuff in...I'll do the cleanup work early next week16:21
robbiewcjwatson: ok16:21
cjwatsonI've added LVM installation for now which seems fairly likely16:21
robbiewcjwatson: steveg will be happy...thnx16:22
robbiewnext on the agenda is the feature status16:23
robbiewI've notice some positive movement on blueprints/specs....thanks to those who've done tha16:23
robbiewand to those who have not...eh hmm16:24
Keybuk"hmm"? :)16:24
robbiewplease get them done, as I have my own "pressures" from above16:24
robbiewand we all know which way $#!t rolls16:24
robbiewdown! lol16:24
robbiewnext is the usual bug work reminders16:25
robbiewAlpha 4...Jaunty Targeted...buglist work16:25
cjwatsonI was trying to work out at what point we could consider the list for bug-fixing to be "done"16:26
cjwatsonthere's certainly more to do, I don't deny that16:26
robbiew"done" meaning no more adding?16:26
robbiewor all fixed?16:26
cjwatsonas in the equivalent of spec-in-review for more normal goals16:26
cjwatsoni.e. green on your page :)16:27
robbiewcjwatson: sure16:27
* robbiew will change that16:27
cjwatsonwell, I wasn't saying it should be green right now, just trying to work out where the cut-off lies16:27
robbiewI've noticed that this list hasn't had much "love" from the team16:28
robbiewassuming these are important...hence their placement on the list16:28
robbiewdo I need to start going through each one...and "voluntelling" folks?16:29
Keybukthe only bug assigned to me on there is old not because I'm lazy16:29
Keybukbut because nobody knows why it happens16:29
robbiew15 foundations bugs without assignees16:29
cjwatsonI was thinking it was more important to have more than 25 bugs there total16:30
cjwatsonI think all the bugs there have a natural assignee; if it's OK, I'll go through today and assign them16:30
robbiewcjwatson: ok, thnx16:30
robbiewI'm not expecting them all to be fixed for jaunty16:30
cjwatson(several of them are me)16:30
robbiewthough that would be nice....just that they have an assignee16:30
robbiewso submitters (and mdz) know we are actively working them.16:31
cjwatsonbug 26694 is the only one I'm unsure about; who wants that?16:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 26694 in lsb "log_daemon_msg fails to output ..." [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2669416:31
* mvo assigns some to him16:32
robbiewKeybuk: mvo: thanks16:32
robbiewok, so we can move on...don't want to harp on bugs too much ;)16:33
robbiewsponsorship queue16:33
robbiewdholbach mentioned it needs some "lovin"16:33
KeybukI did some sponsorship this week ;)16:33
* TheMuso freely admits he is lazy in that area.16:33
cjwatson*blush* I completely forgot yesterday, I'll do an hour before I finish up today16:34
robbiewKeybuk: thnx16:34
robbiewyeah...I realize there's a ton of other work going on16:34
robbiewbut 1 hour a week should be doable16:35
* evand intends to spend more time on it tomorrow and next week16:35
* mvo did some sponsoring but it could be more16:35
robbiewok...I'm done shaming folks into sponsorship queue work16:36
robbiewnext is the EC2 stuff16:36
robbiewkudos to mvo for his work there :D16:36
mvoI played a bit with piuparts and ec2 but ran into issues (piuparts made it hang)16:36
mvoI'm experimenting with some alternative approaches16:37
james_wmvo: I didn't experience that16:37
mvojames_w: have you tried it too? we should talk about the way we did it after the meeting16:37
james_wmvo: sure!16:37
robbiewperhaps it should be on the Sprint agenda as well ;_16:37
mvothe upgrade testing prototype works ok, but needs some lvove to overcome the 10g limit for ami images16:37
mvorobbiew: good idea16:37
robbiewmvo: can u add it16:38
cjwatsonI'd really appreciate a demo of how the ec2 stuff works from a developer POV at the sprint16:38
mvorobbiew: yes, will do (after the meeting)16:38
cjwatsonI think that would be very helpful16:38
robbiewcjwatson: I'll sync up with dendrobates16:38
mvoI could give a bit of a overview, but I'm by no means a expert on it yet16:39
robbiewunless mvo is an expert by then ;)16:39
slangasekkees gave us a pretty good demo last week, we could impose on him to do the same at the sprint16:39
evandindeed, I'll second the request for an overview16:39
evanderr third16:39
robbiew[ACTION] robbie to setup EC2 demo16:40
robbiewfor the Mootbot that is not there16:40
james_wI've been looking at the other AWS stuff as well16:40
robbiewjames_w: yeah...there's some neat stuff to play with16:41
mvojames_w: what specificially?16:41
robbiewBTW, the AWS charges are expensible16:41
james_wmvo: s3, simpledb, sqs16:41
robbiewok..so on to "Good News"16:42
robbiewcjwatson is on the Tech Board16:42
robbiewit was a landslide victory16:42
robbiewChange is coming...lol16:43
* slangasek holds out his hands for some change16:43
robbiewand a big thanks to Keybuk, mvo, liw, and james_w for UbuntuDeveloperWeek work16:44
Keybuktechnically not16:44
KeybukTech Board members aren't inaugurated until noon16:44
Keybukwhich means Condaleeza Rice is on the TB for now16:44
cjwatsonbut the vice tech board member is there from 11:30, right?16:44
cjwatsonor was that "tech board member for vice" - so hard to remember16:44
Keybuk(11) Accordingly, from 12:00 noon until 12:01 p.m. (when Vice President Biden took the oath of office and became Vice President), Condoleeza Rice was momentarily the Acting President of the United States, our first African-American President.16:45
robbiewany other good news...or "OB"16:46
james_wKeybuk uploaded the world in his ongoing quest for udev improvements16:46
robbiewKeybuck: btw, that's actually wrong.  The swearing in is only ceremoniall, i.e. Obama was president before he took the actual oath.16:47
cjwatsonthe page above does quote a constitutional law professor saying that it isn't just ceremonial :)16:47
evandApparently some constitutional scholars are suggesting that he retake the oath after the Chief Justice Roberts slip up.16:48
cjwatsonKeybuk: (BTW, I wonder which noon, given that I don't seem to be a member of the techboard team yet ;-) )16:48
robbiewah...but that's the beauty of constitutional law in the US...it's all about interpretation16:49
robbiewany way...so this meeting is over16:49
Keybukrobbiew: also Biden was actually sworn in seconds before noon; also apparently it's custom to do the real oath in private that morning just in case of problems; etc.16:49
slangasekthanks. :)16:50
arahey guys16:56
* ogasawara waves16:58
pedro_hello everybody!16:59
henowelcome everyone17:01
* pedro_ kicks the bot17:01
davmor2no bot17:01
henoFirst item: * 8.04.2 testing17:02
henodavmor2 has been doing ISO testing and cr3 HW coverage testing17:03
henodavmor2: the ISO testing is complete?17:04
davmor2stgraber: can you grab ltsp again it all got respun ta17:04
henoI guess not :)17:04
davmor2heno: No everything got respun17:04
davmor2live is cover currently about 12 tests left on alt17:05
henodavmor2: ok, are you around to help test the next round?17:05
davmor2already testing17:06
henogreat, thanks17:06
henocr3: what's our coverage currently on hardy.2?17:06
schwukheno: reports from the last two hardy.2 images (amd64 and server) are on the wiki17:07
cr3heno: most laptops and desktops have been tested, and about half servers17:07
henokeeping in mind that the machines listed as 'Compatible' on http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/list/?release=8.04%20LTS are not essential to test at this point (but would be nice)17:08
cr3heno: ETA for servers should be today17:08
davmor2schwuk: is that with todays images?17:08
henocr3: ok - you've worked around the issue of the two blocking machines?17:10
cr3heno: yep17:10
schwukdavmor2: no17:10
davmor2mind you not that much changed to be honest17:11
henoWe'll need to do an actual certification run with the final images next week as well17:11
henothanks, let's move on to:17:12
heno* Wiki migration progress17:12
henodavmor2 and ara have been working on this17:13
henoschwuk: is working on a new theme and macros17:13
araI need to update the template in the spec with the latest davmor2's changes17:13
schwukheno: the content should be copied across in the timescales we discussed.17:14
davmor2ara: you can take the template from http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/System/NetworklessInstall it just needs the image macro adding to the top I think it's correct17:14
henoschwuk: can you remind me what timescale that was? before the sprint?17:14
aradavmor2: ok, thanks :-)17:14
schwukheno: yes17:15
henoSo we have 3 broad categories of test cases now: Hardware, System and Applications17:16
henowhere System is a bit of a catch-all for things like usplash, etc.17:16
davmor2schwuk: one thing is there any chance I can get my account upgraded to include remove and rename wiki pages on the new wiki please?17:16
henofrom those cases we then build test plans for ISO testing or other uses17:17
henowe should run a session about this at the sprint17:17
schwukdavmor2: drop me a mail and nag me17:19
henoschwuk: do you have write access to the ACLs to grant access for davmor2?17:19
schwukheno: if I don't I soon will have :)17:20
henook, great17:20
* heno looks forward to seeing the new theme too :)17:20
henoany other items for the meeting?17:20
davmor2heno: would it be worth setting up a bug for qa docs to ensure everything is covered and can be tracked?17:21
henodavmor2: you mean an LP project to track QA doc issues?17:22
henoI would think we could use a wiki page for that17:24
davmor2heno: I don't know would that work I was think more like bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-runtime/+bug/28491517:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 284915 in kdebase-runtime "Khelpcenter missing docs list" [Low,Confirmed]17:24
schwukheno: I've made davmor2 an admin on the wiki17:24
henoschwuk: great17:25
henodavmor2: a bugs list for the doc team?17:26
henobdmurray: does that fit into the assignment list model?17:26
bdmurraydavmor2: I'm not sure I understand what your intent is17:28
davmor2bdmurray: With the wiki change over I want to ensure that there is no missing cases/pages/info I thought that maybe a bug might work as it emails those assigned to it.  However if there is a more appropriate way I'm open to ideas17:30
henoah, ok17:30
henoI think we'll just place a directory listing of all pages in Testing/Cases in a table and check them off when transferred successfully17:32
davmor2okay np's17:32
henowe should consider a project for the testcases wiki though to file wiki or general test case bugs17:33
henoschwuk: is here a project ATM?17:33
henoIt would also make sense for theme and macro code17:34
araschwuk: you were going to set up a project, weren't you?17:35
henoschwuk: if not, can you set up?17:36
henoyou get an action for that :)17:36
henoanything else?17:37
schwukheno: sure17:37
cr3checkbox package is in jaunty main17:37
aracr3: cool!17:38
cr3no major changes were necessary, just the license that mentionned LGPL which is wrong17:38
henothen let's wrap up17:38
henothanks everyone!17:38
henoit's funny how the # command works for people, even when the bot is broken :)17:39
* Lns grabs a donut and coffee17:49
LnsSo I hear Michael Scott is going to drop in for some inspirational words...18:04
LaserJockis the bot toast?18:04
nubaewell topic says no meetings scheduled18:06
nubaethats probably why its not reacting18:06
LaserJockright, probably because of the new calendar18:06
* aseigo puts on his fly suit and finds a good wall.18:06
LaserJockok, we'll go free-style then ;-)18:06
LaserJockI've updated the agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Community/MeetingAgenda18:06
LaserJockplease everybody have a look18:06
LaserJockhmm, I was hoping to get some other people here for the LP Teams bit18:07
nubaewell we need ogra, highvoltage for those right?18:07
LnsI'm sure they'll be trickling in18:07
LaserJockI think I'm the only person from the Edubuntu Council here18:07
LaserJocknubae: and RichEd18:08
LaserJockok, well since aseigo is here let's look at "Working with KDE" first18:08
* morgs texts a reminder to highvoltage18:08
LaserJockso Edubuntu has traditionally been Gnome-based + KDE Edu18:09
LaserJockbecause we started out as an Ubuntu derivative18:09
Lnsogra says "i'm quite busy but can be available on request to answer one or the other thing"18:09
LaserJockLns: ok, thanks18:09
LaserJockbut since we've restructured into an "educational addon layer" we are quite a bit less dependent on a particular DE18:10
LaserJockso it makes sense for us to look at both the Gnome and KDE sides of things18:10
LaserJockwe've had an edubuntu-desktop-kde metapackage around for a while but we've not done much with it18:11
LaserJockone of my goals for Jaunty is to make that roughly equivalent to edubuntu-desktop18:11
nubaewell, there are at least 2 apps that are in main, which were forgotten in intrepid18:12
LaserJockthat means doing some testing and replaceing Gnome apps with KDE equivalents where possible18:12
nubaekde edu apps18:12
LaserJocknubae: I don't think they were exactly forgotten, but yeah18:12
Ahmuckreplacing them.  is there a standard on what they should do ?18:13
LaserJockAhmuck: how do you mean?18:13
Ahmuckreplacing gnome apps with kde apps?18:13
LnsIs it safe to assume that KDE/Ubuntu is as stable as Gnome, or integrated enough to where we won't have to worry about it so much on TCs?18:13
nubaewell, one problem I see is the dependencies that the apps sometimes pull in18:15
LaserJockAhmuck: I mean edubuntu-desktop-kde should be as much KDE as possible18:15
nubaecould be upwards of 200mb in some cases18:15
* jonathan1 stumbles in18:15
=== jonathan1 is now known as highvoltage
LaserJockLns: you mean KDE apps on Gnome?18:15
LnsLaserJock: yeah, in general.. I'm no KDE expert by any means, but I do know that when launching KDE apps in Gnome, they tend to start all sorts of daemons, and i've had some issues in the past with that18:15
cjwatsonnubae: as a KDE add-on, I think it would be expected that KDE users would likely prefer the KDE-based educational applications where available, and likewise for GNOME18:16
highvoltagecan anyone paste in pvt what I missed? (sorry for being late- and thanks morgs for the sms)18:16
LnsI dunno though, Im just talking from my minimal experience with it18:16
LaserJockLns: right18:16
LaserJockdespite there being quite a bit of improvments in using KDE apps on Gnome and vice versa, there are still some issues18:16
nubaehow would we do it then with the addon-cd?18:17
LaserJockso I'm sort of trying to allow educators who want to run Kubuntu to do that without downloading a bunch of Gnome18:17
LnsSo how about running straight KDE over TC connections? Anybody have experience with that?18:17
nubaecreate 2, one for Kde and one for Gnome?18:17
LaserJocknubae: for now we need to just pick one, IMO18:17
nubaeoh, so u're suggesting migrating to kde then?18:17
LaserJockI think maintaining 2 .isos is more than we or the release team want's to do18:17
LaserJockno, not yet18:18
LaserJockwe can try to make things work on the 1 CD18:18
highvoltageLaserJock: you know ther "marketing" type person will want to split it at some point ;)18:18
LaserJockI'd have to talk with cjwatson and others perhaps about that18:18
LaserJockwe have quite a bit of room on the Cd18:19
nubaebut it doesn't stop the mass of dependencies18:19
LaserJockthe problem is that right now we have to assume that a person has ubuntu-desktop installed18:19
cjwatsonthere are some technical problems with putting both on the one CD18:19
LnsLaserJock: are you suggesting an add-on cd question at launch "Gnome or KDE?" type thing?18:20
LaserJockLns: no18:20
cjwatsonfor an add-on CD, you need to assume a base set of packages or else you end up re-shipping the whole desktop18:20
cjwatsonfor the educational CD, we currently say "right, let's assume that ubuntu-desktop is already installed, and only ship the additional packages needed on top of that"18:20
Lnscan't it simply query the installed metapackages?18:20
cjwatsonit would get more complicated if you might want to assume either ubuntu-desktop or kubuntu-desktop18:21
LaserJockright now I'm just saying that I want to develop edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-desktop-kde so that both Ubuntu *and* Kubuntu users can beenfit from what we do18:21
cjwatsonLns: you can hardly do that when building the CD image!18:21
cjwatsonyou need to decide which .debs to put on the CD ...18:21
highvoltagecjwatson: can't you ship all the direct dependencies for the applications, like the kde libraries and the gtk libraries, etc. so that if someone has either KDE or Gnome/Xubuntu they'll be fine?18:21
cjwatsonhighvoltage: we could, but it would be much bigger and would probably stop fitting on a CD18:21
nubaeLaserJock: how would that work in practice though... what steps are needed to get to that point?18:21
highvoltagecjwatson: ah18:21
Lnscjwatson: what about a DVD? Or compressed image.. ?18:21
cjwatsonI have no direct evidence for this, having not checked18:21
highvoltageLns: debian packages are already compressed18:22
cjwatsonLns: .debs are already compressed, and I've had feedback in the past that many schools are using older recycled computers without DVDs18:22
LaserJocknubae: well, we need people testing and we want to work with KDE to make Kubuntu a better solution for educational users18:22
nubaeok, so u are thinking for jaunty+118:22
cjwatsonI haven't checked the size constraints, so this is just a guess. However, it seems to me that two CDs (one GNOME, one KDE) might be more feasible - but it does have undeniable maintenance problems18:22
LaserJockwell, we certainly can start for Jaunty18:23
highvoltageI don't think the DVD-ROM issue is much of an issue anymore. Optical drives don't last long, and DVD drives have been around for a long time now.18:23
LaserJockfor now I want to not focus on the CD bit, that's got issues we'll have to think about in the future18:23
nubaewe have the danger that people in countries where there is little connectivity will be left behind if we force them to download massive dependencies18:23
LaserJockright now the focus should be on what do we need to do to make educational users more comfortable on a Kubuntu desktop18:24
LaserJocknubae: sure, but I can't please everybody, everywhere, today :-)18:24
LaserJockso baby steps18:24
cjwatsonI got a recycled computer for my stepson with only a CD drive, just this weekend18:24
cjwatsonthat's in the UK which I think is still considered a developed country18:24
LaserJockaseigo has graciously agreed to come to the meeting18:25
highvoltageLaserJock: so what does need to be done? are we looking at a kde theme, is there some kind of integration that needs to happen, do we need to get gtk apps prettier on Kubuntu?18:25
nubaehighvoltage: very few third world countries will have dvd drives as standrad18:25
* aseigo waves.18:25
LaserJockI'd like to turn the floor over to him for a minute to introduce himself and some ideas that he's been working on18:25
highvoltagehey aseigo18:25
nubaehi aseigo18:25
LaserJockhighvoltage: I'll get to that after aseigo18:25
aseigoLaserJock: thanks =)18:25
aseigook, so .. for those who don't know me: i'm a KDE developer, lead dev on Plasma, work on kde libraries and various apps, and sit on the board of directors for our global non-profit foundation (KDE e.V.)18:26
aseigoKDE and education is a really interesting story that's evolved fairly organically over the last 5 years18:27
aseigoobviously, we have the KDE Edu project which has been interested primarily in the creation of small education-oriented desktop apps18:27
aseigowe also have the KDE Kiosk system for user/group profiles18:27
aseigowhich provides UI lock down, config defaults, app menu customizations, etc, etc...18:28
aseigobasically "define what's allowed and what isn't, define the defaults are, link users and groups of users to those profiles"18:28
aseigoit uses a waterfall system so that you can assign people to multiple profiles, allowing creation of "generic" profiles and then more specific ones that get overlayed on the more generic ones.. etc.18:29
aseigoit's easy to use and has some very deep integration into, e.g. config dialogs18:29
ograbut is KDE only18:29
aseigothe combination of these two things, the edu apps and the admin friendliness, along with the overall desktop presentation ended up leading to some rather large deployments in the edu area18:29
ograsame as sabayon is gnome only18:29
aseigoogra: there was nothing in FOSS doing anything like this at the time..18:30
ograthats a big drawback of both tools18:30
ogra(just a comment)18:30
aseigoit's all based on the standard "INI" style configs, however, so isn't very specific to KDE18:30
aseigobut yes, having multiple systems Sucks(tm)18:30
nubaeis there something that stops either being cross compatible?18:30
aseigonubae: technically? no.18:30
LnsI agree - it would be really nice to see that kind of functionality cross-UI18:31
ogramissing backends18:31
LaserJockI think the primary problem is that they are nice *because* they integrate into the desktop18:31
nubaeso we could pick one, and have it work for both?18:31
aseigonubae: it would require implementing support for one system in both sets of apps, however18:31
highvoltageLaserJock: we have quorum now that ogra is here, fwiw18:31
aseigothe thing about lock down and profile management is that there is a lot of "hand work" needed... we have the benefit of KIO (something GNOME just recently started getting) which has allowed us to do protocol restrictions globally18:31
aseigoso it has been a bit easier to accmplish these things with the KDE stack than some of the other projects out there, due to the design decisions18:32
aseigoanyways ..18:32
aseigodeployments ..18:32
highvoltagedid you just copy and paste that or do you type really fast? :)18:32
LaserJockaseigo: ok, so can you touch briefly on your latest blog posts on education, etc.18:32
aseigothe first Big Edu Deployment i became aware of was an 80k seat deployment in a university system in Brazil18:32
Ahmuckltsp ?18:33
aseigosince then we've had Indiana in the states, Gran Canarias (a few 100,000 students, 40k seats), Brazil public system (50 million student, 59k labs, 8-16 seats in each lab)18:33
aseigoso edu has become a HUGE segment for us, user base wise18:33
aseigoergo, why we care =)18:33
Ahmuckstandalone or ltsp ?18:33
ograAhmuck, ltsp and kde4 dont really go well together18:34
aseigodepends.. Gran Canarias is LTSP18:34
LnsWindsor Unified School District (which is about 5 miles from me ;) )18:34
nubaehang on, 50 million?18:34
aseigoBrazil is stand-alone, but shared systems (multiple graphics cards, keyboards, laptops physically connected to a system under the desk)18:34
aseigonubae: yes18:34
highvoltageogra: how so? is it perhaps kde4 can't scale down on it's fancy graphics?18:34
aseigonubae: the entire brazilian public school system is serviced by KDE now18:34
nubaeok, thats good amo when selling ltsp next...18:34
nubaeoh, not ltsp based?18:34
aseigonubae: the deployment will be complete this year; so far ~40k of the labs are in production18:34
ograhighvoltage, afaik you cant disable all the composite functions, which makes it a nono18:35
aseigonubae: no, it's not unfortunately18:35
Lnsaseigo: what OS are they running?18:35
Riddellogra: ?  of course you can18:35
ograbut i'm no kde guy so i might be misinformed18:35
nubaeah... must be a hell of a nightmare to maintain hten18:35
aseigoLns: debian based Brazillian distro18:35
ograRiddell, ah, thanks18:35
highvoltageaseigo: isn't that br-linux?18:35
aseigoogra: all of the compositing can be turned off, in fact it does it automatically even18:35
LaserJockstgraber said there were some issues with KDE4 and ltsp, this is one thing we'll definately want to look into18:36
Ahmucknice /me is kde fan18:36
aseigohighvoltage: could be; different regions have different companies overseeing deployment and support, though, so i' not 100% sure if it's the same distro everywher18:36
ograit isnt18:36
highvoltageah ok18:36
ograwe had several UDSes in spain18:36
ograi met all the edu distro guys there, every region builds its own18:36
aseigoLaserJock: yes, there are some issues indeed. depending on the h/w it either works really well, or not very well. we're working on the latter with people who have such labs, though18:36
nubaeyah, Spain is a bit mad like that18:37
ograits tied to the money of the local government so they are supposed to build their own distros18:37
aseigoyeah, the Gran Canaria project is just like brazil, only smaller18:37
nubaeyep, the problem for them is finding new names :-)18:37
aseigo40k seats, 300k-is people18:37
aseigook.. so, where are we going from here?18:37
ograheard of guadalinex ?18:37
aseigo(you ask .. ;)18:37
aseigoogra: of course =)18:37
ogra500000 seats ..18:37
aseigoogra: students, not seats iirc18:38
ograthey doubled up over the last two yeras18:38
Lnsand they say it's not ready for the desktop.. =p18:38
Riddells/Gran Canaria/Canary Islands/18:38
ograaseigo, seats afai18:38
aseigoLns: that's just our cover story so MS/Apple don't REALLY start cmpeting against us ;)18:38
ogra2mio students ...18:38
aseigoRiddell: right.. sorry =)18:38
highvoltageiirc aseigo went with when we did the guidalinex tour18:38
ograthough they extended beyond students its also the complete givernment desktops now18:39
aseigoi've been to spain a few times, and the Canaries once18:39
aseigoogra: cool18:39
ograspain rules wrt linux18:39
ograits just sad that they have these silly local rules ...18:39
LnsSO.... ;)18:39
aseigoso.. http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/01/purpose-specific-containments.html18:39
nubaeyep, they are building some great apps too, not just deploying18:39
ograelse they would be able to join forces and rule the linux world18:39
aseigoone of the use cases driving KDE4's desktop shell design has been education18:40
aseigoone of the things that has become really obvious in our time with educators is that the business desktop layout doesn't scale well across age groups18:40
aseigoSugar is one manifestation of people trying to answer that problem18:40
aseigoone of the things i wanted to avoid was having to support a education specific desktop shell from the ground up18:41
aseigothat simply will never happen18:41
aseigoit is too much work and it's not generic enough to get enough testing and involvement18:41
nubaewell sugar has its own people supporting it18:41
=== lamont` is now known as lamont
nubaewe have enough deployments to keep us going18:41
Lnsaseigo: so are you saying you're planning on bringing the benefits of KDE lockdown/profiles cross-shell? =)18:42
aseigowell, not really.. i don't have much say in what other people decide to do.. and cross-project outreach goes only so far, unfortunatley =(18:42
aseigo*but* what we did was make Plasma modular so that it is easily dismantled and put back together with various components (even on the fly)18:43
aseigoso the desktop itself is a few hundred lines of code on top of the framework18:43
nubaeyeah plasma seems great for making mini learning objects18:43
aseigoand you can write in Python, Ruby, JavaScript, etc.. making development fast, deployment simple18:43
highvoltagenubae: LaserJock also points that out quite often18:43
aseigoso in the Canaries, they had this wallpaper with colourful boxes and they manually placed start icons on these colourful boxes18:44
aseigoeach box was for a different subject18:44
aseigoneat idea, stupid to have to do it by hand18:44
aseigoPlasma lets us do it "for real" with very, very little code18:44
Lnshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_(KDE) for anyone not sure about plasma (like me)18:44
aseigoand you get the lock down and config for free18:44
nubaecan u explain that a bit further?18:44
aseigoah, Plasma is the underlying framework for the KDE4 desktop shell (though apps like Amarok are also using it now)18:45
aseigoit's the "engine" on which we put together primary user interfaces, such as the desktop and panels that you see when you log in18:45
aseigoit's rather flexible and very modular... supports multiple languages for programming ... is SVG based for graphics...18:45
nubaethat is cool18:46
nubaelike sugar...18:46
aseigoit also supports third party widget systems such as Google Gadget, MacOS Dashboard and Enlightenment 17 Edje18:46
aseigonubae: yeah, there are some similarities indeed18:46
highvoltagethe MacOS widget support is quite cool18:46
nubaeoh, that works already?18:46
aseigoso we've built MID interfaces with it, Amarok2 (obviously) and the KDE4 shell18:46
aseigoit runs on extremeley limited hardware; it's just fine n the N810, for instance18:47
nubaeI take this all stems from karamba18:47
aseigoit's slow on the FreeRunner, though. boots faster than E does on it though ;018:47
aseigonubae: no.. we support karambas as well, and we certainly took some lessons from karamba.. one of the karamba devs works on plasma, actually =)18:47
aseigobut it's fairly different from SK itself...18:47
aseigoah, and absolutely *everything* is a widget18:48
aseigofrom the pager to the taskbar to the clock to the app menu, etc18:48
aseigothere is no "this is a panel thing, but this is a wiget"18:48
aseigoer, widget18:48
aseigothere is One Object Model18:48
highvoltageoh wow. I didn't know that *and* I read aseigo's blog.18:48
aseigowhich means nothing is baked into the system that can't be as easily changed or swapped about as any other "desktop widget"18:48
* ScottK has a teenager that loves fooling with widgets on her desktop.18:48
aseigoand yeah, we have neat things like a dashboard just like mac os18:49
aseigook, so what does this mean for edu?18:49
highvoltageLaserJock: we have to do EC now or we'll lose ogra18:49
aseigowell, it means we can, with relatively little effort (at least from the coding and artwork side =) and very, very little maintainance overhead (the bulk of the tech is in the framework, and that gets pounded on by traditional desktop users) we can create someting specific to various educational audiences18:49
aseigowe're also looking right now at edu management apps18:50
LaserJockhighvoltage: ok, I think we'll do some email stuff, that way we catch RichEd as well18:50
aseigothere'll be an announcement soonish about a classroom lab manager (creat accounts, monitor work being dne, etc)18:50
highvoltageLaserJock: ok, good.18:50
aseigoit's functional, kde4 based and will be GPL18:50
nubaeaseigo: something common across apps?18:50
aseigowe are also revisting the Kiosk configuration tool18:50
aseigomaking something a bit more sane and extensible than the KDE3 one18:51
nubaethat is precisely what educators I have spoken to ask for...18:51
aseigonubae: yes, the manager is app agnostic18:51
aseigobut with all the power of kiosktool18:51
nubaeso it would manage the levels at which students work, reporting, that kind of thing?18:51
aseigothis is our edu roadmap for 2009 (well, that and continue kicking ass and taking names with the kde edu suite =)18:51
aseigoAhmuck: oooh, i like it18:51
aseigoour motivation is simple: we have a stupidly huge user base in the edu space18:52
aseigoas the opportunity has arrisen, we're very interested in working with edubuntu18:52
nubaeyeah clearly the kde-edu suite takes the crown when it comes to the edu apps18:52
aseigowe'd like to have broad, 2 way communication between the educators that use edubuntu and what we're doing as we do it18:52
aseigowe'd love to have "early adopter" testers (actually, some have already signed up, so we're making good progress there already)18:52
* Ahmuck volunteers testing lab18:53
aseigoand we *need* input from the people who will rely on the software as we design it18:53
aseigoi am a software developer and karaoke singer (one of them pays my bills, the other is best experienced with alcohol at the ready ;)18:53
* alkisg wants ltsp to work out of the box in kubuntu18:53
aseigoi am not an educator18:53
Ahmuckwhere do we sign up for testing?18:54
aseigoand as such we really need to build a community based on sharing experiences and efforts that pulls in educators18:54
aseigogood question =)18:54
nubaeexactly what I was saying yesterday18:54
aseigoso.. first order of action is that we'll be setting up a mailing list for those who want to get involved..18:54
aseigoit will not be a "deveoper list" though developers will be there18:54
Ahmucki'm looking at setting up vidoe testing records like another distro did, where audio and video is recorded for user reactions18:54
nubaewe must listen to educators.... too often apps are made without their input18:54
aseigoit will be a feedback, coordination, design list18:54
aseigonubae: amen, brother.18:54
Ahmucksign me up :)18:55
nubaesugar is just as guilty of this18:55
aseigoand i'd like to rely on you guys to figure out how best to coordinate the community around edubuntu already18:55
aseigowe also have wiki space, etc, but i'm sure you already have a lot of stuff set up and being used already18:55
aseigoi'll rely on your guidance in those matters18:55
aseigoi just had a meeting with the kde edu lead yesterday, and she's passing this around the kde edu community as well18:56
aseigowe won't be using the kde edu list for this, however, as the scope isn't quite right18:56
aseigook, i think that was my "quick" intro ;)18:56
aseigooops. heh18:56
highvoltagewow, that was super-quick indeed! (for aseigo)18:56
LaserJockhe kept it under and hour18:57
nubaegreat stuff...18:57
aseigome, loquacious? pah!18:57
LaserJockaseigo: thanks so much for dropping by and giving us that intro18:57
LaserJockvery informative and helpful18:57
aseigonp... i re-assume my fly on the wall status unless prodded =)18:57
morgsnubae: Sugar does have the iaep (it's-an-education-project) ML alongside the sugar-devel list, although I haven't seen many educators on it recently. Not sure if they're just lurkers...18:57
LaserJockok, so we should reall move on18:58
nubaemorgs: I was at a deployment 2 days ago, and it was a fiasco in terms of presenting the activities that exist18:58
LaserJockwe can have more KDE discussion later and on the mailing list18:58
LaserJockI'll try to keep people informed as I get info as well18:58
morgsnubae: yeah... OLPC != Sugar... and Sugar's been focusing on a small subset of activities...18:58
highvoltageso next up is Sugar status report18:58
nubaesugar itself as a UI is wonderful and everyone loves it... but the activities need lots of work... I've made notes, and they will be posted to IAEP soon18:58
LaserJockhighvoltage: ok, right18:59
LaserJockmorgs: how is Sugar sitting for Jaunty?18:59
morgsLaserJock: Here's the status of Sugar.18:59
morgsThe stable version is 0.82.x which we got into Intrepid, although due to feature freeze and lag in debian's packaging we didn't get the final point releases in, resulting in a lot of support issues which I still haven't been able to work on much.19:00
morgsCurrent upstream development is an unstable 0.83.x release series,19:00
morgsleading to a stable 0.84.x set of releases.19:00
nubaeunder ubuntu a good 50% of apps dont even start up19:00
morgsWe just hit feature freeze upstream, so it's definitely time to get it into Jaunty.19:01
LaserJockmorgs: ok, so is 0.82.x bug fix only?19:01
LaserJockok, so those probably have decent SRU potential19:01
morgsThe changelogs aren't well written, but it should be possible to log all the bugs from the changelogs and then SRU the point releases...19:01
morgsDebian (basically 1 guy) have chosen to stick with the 0.82.x stable releases, which means we haven't had 0.83.x development releases to sync.19:02
LaserJockright, so are you wanting to jump ahead of Debian on that?19:02
morgsTherefore we are now forking debian's packaging to package 0.83.x ourselves, so that we can get a decent release packaged before Jaunty feature freeze.19:02
morgsThen getting to 0.84.0 should be just bug fixes19:02
LaserJockok, how about hulahop?19:03
morgsRight now, the packaging is just being done by lfaraone (formerly known as ffm) - a high school student - and myself.19:03
morgsAnd we're not managing much of it, but I'm trying to now put in a lot of effort.19:03
morgsLaserJock: hulahop got into intrepid-proposed, and the update works - I must still test on hardy, but I need to set up a vm for that.19:04
morgsThe upload took a long time to get into *-proposed from when you did it...19:04
LaserJockok, so 2 things: 1) we can send out a call for packaging volunteers and 2) if you need sponsorship just subscribe me to the bug and/or poke19:04
LaserJockmorgs: yeah, the archive admins were busy I think, that's why it took a while19:05
LaserJockmorgs: anything else on the Sugar front?19:05
nubaeone thing from the educator side is that schools want to be able to run a decent working sugar on a stick19:05
morgssugar on a stick = liveusb19:06
nubaeright now that is quite impossible, but how long do u think it will take before we have something decent?19:06
morgsBoot off USB, then you don't need to install Sugar, and you can run it on "windows"19:06
LaserJockstick it in any computer and you've got Sugar-on-the-go19:06
highvoltageto avoid network congestion / hard disk failure probably19:06
morgsand then take it home, and carry on using it there...19:06
highvoltagenubae: what prevents you to run sugar from a usb disk?19:06
nubaebut its pretty unusable19:07
nubaeno networking, half the activities crash out19:07
LaserJocknubae: just app issues?19:07
nubaeno word, no read19:07
morgsIt's the easiest way to *try* Sugar, I'm not convinced it's feasible for every day use - people are actively working on it for Fedora19:07
highvoltagethat's quite odd since it runs from flash on the olpc as well19:07
nubaeits a ubuntu issue19:07
morgsnubae is talking about current Sugar on Intrepid19:07
morgsWe need work on Abiword to get it built with libabiword, otherwise the Sugar Write doesn't work19:08
nubaeand all that depend on that19:08
nubaewhich is a lot19:08
morgsand tomeu is busy upstreaming our evince patches to try and get Read to be able to work too19:08
morgsthose are core activities, and it will help very much to be able to package them for Jaunty.19:08
nubaeyeah then we'd have something usable19:08
LaserJockmorgs: ok, let's start a thread on edubuntu-devel about the abiword thing19:08
LaserJockjust so I've got something clear to work on19:09
LaserJockI'm not positive about what the problem/solution is right now19:09
LaserJockbut we can figure that out and poke/work were needed19:09
LaserJockok, so lets move on19:09
LaserJockI want to briefly talk about Brainstorm19:10
LaserJockI sent an email to the edubuntu lists yesterday about it19:10
highvoltageas in, the unmaintained list of ubuntu ideas?19:10
LaserJockbut I think it could be a very nice way for us to encourage feedback from contributors19:10
LaserJockhighvoltage: exactly, but it's looking very nice and it has both and Edubuntu section and an Education category19:10
LaserJockthe Edubuntu section only has 1 item right now19:11
LaserJockI think it would be useful to point people there19:11
LaserJockit also now allows for multiple "solutions" that people can rate19:11
LaserJockand of course there's develper feedback, etc.19:11
nubaeby people u mean educators?19:12
LaserJockso it's nice because it's free to us and we don't have to maintain it :-)19:12
LaserJockwe can have app suggestions, etc. there19:12
LaserJockanyway, so I thought I'd just point that out and encourage people to use it19:13
LaserJockso http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/education/ and http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/19:13
LaserJockok, moving on19:13
LaserJockthe next thing on the agenda is "Should Edubuntu start accepting donations? "19:13
highvoltageLaserJock: where does that come from?19:14
LaserJockhighvoltage: the agenda item?19:14
LaserJockI thik that's nubae's19:14
nubaethink Im guilty19:14
LaserJocknubae: right?19:14
Ahmuckdonations for what?19:14
nubaeI just think that the core devs do a lot of hard work19:15
LaserJockI think that was in the context of "Canonical no longer pays for an Edubuntu developer and there are users/organizations around the world that may want to help out"19:15
nubaeand if we want better support in schools and such, they should be able to get donations at least19:15
highvoltagefor edubuntu to accept donations it would require some kind of account, and lots of other things. or it would have to come to canonical. perhaps the questions would be /can/ edubuntu accept donations19:15
Ahmuckif i donate 10,000 do i get my own dev?19:15
LaserJockhighvoltage: right, that's part of it19:15
highvoltageAhmuck: gnome has an adopt-a-dev program :)19:15
aseigo.. who will bring you coffee in the morning. =)19:15
nubaeedubuntu is not affiliated with canonical as I understand it19:15
highvoltagenubae: it is quite, actually19:16
LaserJocknubae: well, I wouldn't say that19:16
LaserJockCanonical does a whole lot for us19:16
nubaeok, I must be missing something here19:16
LaserJockthe point your making is that they don't support a developer19:16
nubaeright, and the donations should go to devs19:16
Ahmuckwho is a dev?19:17
LaserJockthe *do* support us a lot with hardware (hosting websites, the .iso, etc.) and the whole Ubuntu infrastructure19:17
nubaeso that there is motivation19:17
Ahmuckcoders, testers ?19:17
nubaeLaserJock: sure19:17
highvoltageI don't think we're in a position atm where, even if we were allowed to by canonical, administer funds and pay a salary with it. (just mho)19:17
LaserJockwell, one *could* have a bounty system19:17
nubaehighvoltage: it could be similar to how codeweavers works with wine19:17
LaserJockthough that didn't work so well it seemed when Canonical tried it on Launchpad19:17
highvoltageubuntu had a bounty system way way back. it used to work through launchpad19:18
nubaethey donate to have certain wish list features included19:18
Ahmucki have mixed feelings about this.  it is my opinion that real software development really starts happening when there is money involved, but the question is how does one decide who gets what?19:18
nubaebased on who works on the items19:18
nubaeI dont think thats too hard19:18
Ahmucki've seen bounty programs19:18
highvoltageI think it's a bit of an insult to some programmers if you say "hey, do this that will take you 20 hrs to do, and I'll give you $10 for it!"19:19
Ahmucka bounty/reward and if someone wants it develped further they put in the money and the first dev team to get to the goal?19:19
highvoltageI think that's why the bounty system failed19:19
LaserJockit seems to me that a better idea19:19
LaserJockis what Canonical does19:19
nubaehighvoltage: the idea is that they'd get what they pay for19:19
highvoltagenubae: ok19:19
LaserJockyou're a company or non-profit and you hire people to get done what you want to get done19:19
morgsmako wrote a paper on why bounties are negative for software development communities, I'll see if I can dig it up19:20
LaserJockso if somebody wanted to start a company/NPO that wanted to hire devs to work on Education then go for it19:20
Ahmucki've used a number of apps and some of them have been real buggy.  as a result i've put in lots of time logging error messages, etc.  would htat be devlopment?19:20
nubaenot really19:20
nubaefixing the bugs would be though19:20
LaserJockbut I'm not sure that Edubuntu itself is really in a place, nor does it itself want to be in a place, to accept those sorts of donations19:21
LaserJockmorgs: thanks19:21
highvoltagenubae: I like the idea of being able to reward a developer in a monetary way19:21
highvoltagenubae: but I don't think that Edubuntu needs the burden of administering funds19:22
morgsFor that sort of task, people seem to say that tshirts/swag/travel costs/hardware are better ways to give incentives19:22
nubaehighvoltage: there I agree19:22
highvoltagecan we perhaps think about it over the next week and talk about it again?19:22
LaserJockI've thought of like having Amazon wishlists somewhere where people can get a book for a dev19:22
nubaehow about if the dev assigned to particular tasks is mentioned somewhere and gets funded via paypal or something directly19:22
highvoltageLaserJock: now *that* sounds like a good idea19:22
nubaeLaserJock: right!19:22
LaserJockin that case it's "heah, I appreciate what you've done, thanks"19:23
LaserJockrather than "if you do X I'll give you money"19:23
highvoltageperhaps we could get amazon, etc to sponsor things19:23
Ahmucki like the book idea19:23
Ahmuckor the swag idea19:23
LaserJockok, so somebody start a thread on edubuntu-devel please :-)19:23
* highvoltage nominates nubae 19:23
nubaebut the devs that have contributed in which ways would need to be mentioned then19:23
LaserJockwe can throw that around for a while19:23
LaserJocknubae: not necessarily19:24
LaserJockwe can discuss it on the list19:25
highvoltagemoving on?19:25
LaserJockok, next item is "Which apps should we target for inclusion from Jaunty onwards?"19:25
LaserJockI *think* we're kinda taking care of that19:25
highvoltageLaserJock: I'd hope that you would now, since you're the seed maintainer :)19:25
LaserJocknubae has sent some ideas to the list19:25
nubaewell, what we need is reviewers19:26
nubaeto check out the software and say whether it is worthy of inclusion19:26
LaserJockwhat I kinda want to do is let people who have an interest in a particular app be responsible for getting it into Main if they want it there19:26
LaserJockI'm more than happy to help that out19:26
highvoltageI can't find nubae's post :/19:27
LaserJockbut I don't have time for "please include X, Y, and Z, kthanksbye"19:27
LaserJockhighvoltage: it might be kinda buried19:27
highvoltageI'll find it later. What kind of ideas were they though?19:27
LaserJockwe don't have a lot of time to get MIRs done19:27
LaserJockso I'd like to get people started on them as soon as possible19:28
nubaehighvoltage: replacement for screem is the title19:28
highvoltagenubae: ah ok, yes I got that one19:28
highvoltagenubae: well, quanta will be a good replacement for that on the kde desktop ;)19:28
nubaeyes and if installed on gnome it pulls in 200mb of deps19:29
LaserJockstellarium, gbrainy, salasaga, etc.19:29
nubaebut really the point was, we need a coding app and a WYSIWYG app19:29
LaserJockI think if we got say 4-5 apps that cover areas that are currently lacking in Main I think we'd be good19:29
LaserJockbluefish is another one19:30
nubaeand we can't forget the server side19:30
nubaewe should look at including mahara19:30
LaserJockanyway, I suggest each person that want's an app or apps in for Jaunty start a thread on their apps19:30
nubaealong with moodle19:31
nubaeand ejabberd19:31
LaserJockI'm more than happy to do a quick sanity check review to see what's likely to make it19:31
* ScottK is a big fan of Quanta.19:31
LaserJockthen we can narrow down our selection and start filing MIRs19:31
LaserJocksound good?19:31
LaserJockthe other aspect is the Universe app selection19:32
LaserJockon my TODO list is to make a bzr branch for seeds for our Universe selection19:32
highvoltageLaserJock: not that I have anything against going in main, of course, but we can still have universe packages as part of the edubuntu metapackages, right/19:32
highvoltageok that kind of answers my question19:32
LaserJockwe're going to do universe separately19:33
LaserJockso edubuntu-desktop and edubuntu-desktop-kde will be Main-only for now19:33
highvoltagesorry I didn't realise that19:33
LaserJockbut we'll have another set of -preschool, -primary, -secondar, and -tertiary19:33
LaserJockwell, it's just gonna make a mess if I try to not do that for Jaunty at least19:33
LaserJockJaunty +1 we can try to figure that out19:34
LaserJockI've already made a mess with the seeds as cjwatson knows :-)19:34
LaserJockbut I need help on 2 things19:34
LaserJock1) what to call the metapackages, edubuntu-* , edubuntu-extras-* are ones I've been thinking of19:35
LaserJock2) we need to know what apps to put in the seeds19:35
nubaeno extras19:35
Ahmuckwhat would extras be?19:36
highvoltageLaserJock: do you have a wiki page for that currently?19:36
LaserJockit's just extra edu stuff that's not in Main/on the CD19:36
LaserJockhighvoltage: no, I don't :(19:36
nubaejust a word to describe the packs19:36
LaserJockI need some help there19:36
nubaewell shouldnt we put that on the main edubuntu page?19:37
highvoltagewell we know there's going to be an edubuntu-desktop and possibly an edubuntu-desktop-kde19:37
LaserJockone aspect is that I'm desperately needing to focuse on my PhD so I'm trying to give you guys as much responsibility as possible19:37
LaserJockI'm likely to be down to 1-2 hr/day of *buntu time19:37
Ahmuckheh, i'd be focusing on the PhD myself19:38
LaserJocknubae: eventually19:38
highvoltagewow, I wish I had 1-2 hr/day of *buntu time :/19:38
LaserJockwhat we need is just a simple working list of apps that are in decent shape and are useful for people19:38
LaserJockhighvoltage: yeah, well, it's a big cut-back for me19:38
nubaeok, well I already started listing the apps in edubuntu.org format for all edu apps19:39
nubaeso I can paste that to the edubuntu wiki19:39
LaserJocknubae: ok, great19:39
LaserJockemail edubuntu-devel when you get that19:39
LaserJockthen we can start adding/removing things19:39
LaserJockand I'll get the packages uploaded soon19:39
nubaeok, but can people help me testing the apps out19:39
nubaewe shoudnt be putting all the edu apps in, just the ones that work19:39
LaserJockjust start with a list19:39
Ahmucknubae: i can19:39
LaserJockwe can then start reviewing them19:39
nubaeok, well I can make a big list, and we start knocking them off from there19:40
LaserJockright, good19:40
LaserJockok, well, I think that's about it19:40
LaserJockI need to get going19:41
nubaecool, then can go and eat :-) its evening meal time over here19:41
LaserJockI'll be sending out meeting minutes at some point soonish19:41
LaserJockso .... meeting over19:42
* Lns claps19:42
LaserJockthanks for coming everybody19:42
highvoltageLaserJock: is lns an edubuntu-member yet?19:42
Lnsyeah, wassa upa wita data19:42
highvoltageLns: please put it on the agenda for the next meeting19:43
Lnshighvoltage: ok19:44
nubaeah me too btw!19:44
nubaeand I kinds should be a edubuntu-website member too :p19:45
LnsShould I take out the discussed topics from today?19:45
LaserJockhighvoltage: right, we need an EC first19:45
LaserJockLns: yes, please19:45
Lnsk, done19:46
Lnsyikes...ubuntu.com seems real slow from my end19:46

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