honglihas gtk switched to git?00:00
pochu44 changelog lines for one fix???00:00
hongliit was using svn last time I checked00:00
pochuhongli: it still uses svn00:00
LaserJockit's svn still I think00:00
directhexfails to apply to intrepid package00:00
LaserJockthe "fix" includes new gconf keys, etc.00:00
directhexthis is non-trivial00:00
LaserJockthat's probably like a $200 fix ;-)00:01
hongliurgh. I wonder whether removing that one liner that was mentioned earlier will fix it00:01
hongliLaserJock: you know I'm almost willing to pay the $200 if this costs me significantly more time :)00:02
hongliI'm not a teenager anymore so I can't affort all-week-hacking-sessions like I used to00:03
hongliin the mean time I'm trying to fix what seems to be a bug in gnome-power-manager...00:03
directhexjms@destiny:/tmp/gtk+2.0-2.14.4.orig$ patch -p1 < ../part2.patch00:09
directhexpatching file gtk/gtkfilechooserdefault.c00:09
directhexpatching file gtk/gtkfilechooserdialog.c00:09
directhexpatching file gtk/gtkfilechoosersettings.c00:09
directhexpatching file gtk/gtkfilechoosersettings.h00:09
directhexjms@destiny:/tmp$ diffstat debdiffy.diff00:22
directhex debian/patches/099_fix_small_filechooserdialog.patch |  398 +++++++++++++++++++00:22
directhex gtk+2.0-2.14.4/debian/changelog                      |    700:22
directhex gtk+2.0-2.14.4/debian/patches/series                 |    100:22
directhexbig patch00:22
directhexbuild build build00:26
hongliI've heard of the PPA. how does it work?00:28
directhexpochu, i'm not cluttering my own PPA with things like gtk00:28
directhexhongli, upload source package, get repository.00:28
hongliis it just a repository that happens to be maintained by a random person that has a launchpad account?00:28
honglihm you say *source* package00:29
pochuhongli: it's a Launchpad service for every user or team00:29
hongliso launchpad builds packages for different distro versions for you?00:29
pochufor the one you upload it00:29
directhexonly different ubuntu versions, but yet00:29
hongliso how do you deal with differences between distro versions?00:29
pochuyou can upload to hardy, intrepid, jaunty, etc00:29
directhexstupid crappy slow c00:30
honglifor example, suppose that you're packaging git which depends on git, but ubuntu 8.04 comes with libsome_dependency1.2 while 8.10 comes with libsome_dependency1.400:30
honglithe package names are different in both distro versions00:30
directhexyou upload once per target release00:31
hongliso you have to upload one source package per ubuntu release?00:31
directhexit can handle multiple versions of the same package (but not multiple copies with the same version number)00:31
directhexso yes, you'd upload 1.0-1~intrepid~ppa1 and 1.0-1~hardy~ppa1 separately00:32
maxbthough you can save yourself bandwidth by only including the .orig.tar.gz once00:34
directhexif you remember the right debuild flags to do so00:35
pochudoes it?00:36
LaserJockas long as the .orig.tar.gz is in either Ubuntu or your PPA you don't need to include it00:37
directhexhurry up, pbuilder00:38
pochuand I was always uploading the orig tarballs...00:42
directhexpochu, well, it's only a problem when you're an OOo packager :)00:42
pochuwell, eclipse is *huge* too ;)00:43
directhexand has elite java powers meaning it eats ram for fun00:45
pochuso does wxwidgets2.800:46
directhexno really, i worked on ikvm packaging, and the ikvm build process involves compiling openjdk00:46
directhexi thought there was a terrible memory leak, but no! the memory leak is called "javac"00:46
directhex1.3 gig of ram later, it finishes00:46
directhexdpkg-deb: building package `libgtk2.0-0' in `../libgtk2.0-0_2.14.4-0ubuntu2_amd64.deb'.00:48
honglinice, thanks :) I appreciate it00:49
honglilet me test00:49
honglioh, I'm on x86 :/00:49
=== bddebian2 is now known as bddebian
honglithis one, right? https://launchpad.net/~directhex/+ppa-packages00:58
pochunice split00:58
pochugood night folks00:59
pochuhongli: good luck!00:59
honglithanks pochu00:59
honglihow do I install a PPA's gpg key? there doesn't seem to be any instructions01:01
honglior a download link to a gpg file01:01
hongliok never mind, I figured it out. :) just not as easy as the one-liners I'm used to01:02
LaserJockyeah, I think they're working on that01:02
LaserJockthey just started really rolling out the package signing01:03
honglidirecthex: I don't see libgtk in the package list01:04
honglitime to sleep, bye01:16
calcif i you rename a folder in evolution does it not really rename it?01:28
calci tried renaming my old folder for the mailing list to the new name and then changing my filter but it claims the new name doesn't actually exist01:28
* calc is going to brute force fix it by moving all messages deleting the folder then recreating it (maybe that will work?) :)01:30
* ScottK considers trying to seduce calc back to the dark ways of KDE ...01:31
calcScottK: does kmail not eat mail anymore, back when i maintained people were always complaining about how crap it was ;-)01:32
calcback then i just used mutt01:32
* calc is beginning to think he should go back to mutt with imap01:32
ScottKFor pop3, no it does not in my experience.01:33
ScottKNo idea about imap, although I understand it's way better than it used to be.01:33
calcScottK: ok01:34
ScottKcalc: I've also heard it got substantially better in KDE 4.2 (haven't tried it yet).01:35
calcif thunderbird wasn't so bad i would have stayed with it01:35
calcScottK: ok01:35
calcwhenever they fix sorting based on imap headers i will probably switch back to thunderbird01:36
calcthat bug has been open for ~ 6 years though so i doubt it will be anytime soon01:37
calcwow evolution just crashed on me while moving messages01:37
calcand now it won't start back up01:38
calcf*ck bus error from less i need to reboot01:38
* ScottK has bugs filed on mozilla (seamonkey) prior to 1.0 still open.01:39
calcactually i'm on irc from a stable machine, just via ssh :)01:40
calceven deleting and remaking the folder in evolution doesn't work02:29
raofdirecthex: Do you have any idea why libmono-cairo2.0-cil doesn't ship a pkgconfig file?02:56
raofAlso, I'd like to stab f-spot's autofoo maintainer for putting all of the pkg-config dependencies in a single call.02:56
=== bluesmoke_ is now known as Amaranth
ScottKOn the off chance that there's an archive admin awake, paying attention, and with a moment to do something (and an associated willingness), would you please accept kdebase-workspace into intrepid-proposed.  This is part one of the bluetooth fix for KDE and part two has to build against it.04:12
* StevenK mumbles04:14
Junowathi everyone04:20
ScottKStevenK: Thank you.04:22
StevenKScottK: Oh, you saw?04:22
ScottKGot that accepted.04:22
JunowatI was hoping to find out more about Ubuntu Developer Week.04:23
Junowatis this an active room?04:25
ScottKNot so much this time of day.  Try #ubuntu-classroom later in the day (not sure how much).04:26
Junowatunfortunately that was on Monday04:27
JunowatI was hoping that there would be an overview of the different development teams somewhere04:28
JunowatI am a developer04:28
Junowatand I wanted to see which teams needed people and where I would fit in based on my skills04:28
ScottKWhat are you interested in?04:29
ScottKThe Ubuntu Developer Week presentations go on all week.04:29
JunowatI'm interested in doing programming work (as well as build/packaging)04:30
ScottKAre you interested in KDE/Gnome/Server stuff ....04:30
Junowatwhy not?  =)04:33
JunowatI am open to all of them.04:33
Junowatthough I have only used Gnome (not KDE)04:34
ScottKIt's generally better in the long run if you focus where your interests are.04:34
ScottKThen I'd suggest #ubuntu-desktop, but it'll probably be quiet this time of day.04:34
JunowatI agree04:34
Junowatwell that is why I am trying to find out what the different areas are04:35
Junowatin other words, what are the choices (and then pick out of a,b,c, ... etc)04:35
ScottKThere are really as many choices as all the stuff in the Ubuntu archive.04:36
ScottKIn #ubuntu-motu we package and maintain the Universe repository.  We also teach people about packaging.04:36
ScottKIt might be best to start there.04:36
JunowatOIC that makes sense04:36
JunowatI'd need to know that process in order to work with any of the teams04:37
JunowatI looked on the Ubuntu developer wiki here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment04:37
Junowatand it seemed like there are only 2 different groups: ubuntu core developers and MOTU04:38
Junowatthat seemed a bit simplistic and I was hoping for more04:39
ScottKThe archive is divided into two main parts and those teams follow those.04:40
ScottKBut there are also people who focus on Gnome, KDE, and Server things.04:40
ScottKAlso language specific areas too.04:40
ScottKFor example, #ubuntu-java04:41
Junowatyou seem to know a lot about this ScottK04:42
JunowatIs there any resource online that I can use to find out more04:43
Junowat(I don't want to pepper you with all my questions)04:43
ScottKhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment pretty well will lead you everywhere eventually.04:44
ScottKWhich you already started with.04:44
Junowatthanks ScottK04:48
Junowatappreciate the info04:48
ScottKJunowat: You're welcome.04:49
JunowatFrom what you're telling me as well as what I read on the dev wiki, it looks like the motu team is where I should start (plus they offer mentoring)04:49
lamontWTH did booting an intrepid dhcp host result in resolv.conf having both search and domain directives?  I mean, this isn't 199204:54
calcwow it took 26m to install jaunty, seems a bit slow05:14
raofIs that from livecd?05:14
calcfrom alt cd05:14
bluesmokedude I wish mine were 26m05:15
raofThat's closer to expected, but still a while.05:15
raofI'd be concerned if that was the livecd!05:15
bluesmokemy LiveCD installs have always taken like 30-40 minutes05:15
bluesmokeexcept for maybe the very first one I did when we first started doing LiveCD installs05:15
raofWhat sort of hardware are you installing on, and are you including time to do the configuration?05:18
raofThis install took longer to select keymap, language, partition, username, etc than it did to actually install.05:19
LaserJockholy smokes05:19
calcraof: 26m c2d laptop and did selections as fast as possible, already pre-partitioned so just selected manual and told it what to format as05:19
LaserJockI think mine always take at least 30 min.05:19
raofAgain, we're talking the livecd?  Strange!05:20
calcraof: my 26m was amd64 alternate cd (not live cd)05:20
calcraof: and was timed from the time it booted until it rebooted05:20
raofRight.  26m isn't too bad for the alternate cd.05:21
raofThat's probably about what mine takes.  The live cd was much, much faster.05:21
calclivecd is too slow, heh05:21
calcraof: the livecd installs faster for you than alternate cd?05:21
calchmm ok05:22
* calc thought it would have been slower due to having to boot into gnome05:22
raofOh.  I was calculating from "Start the installer", not "boot the CD".05:23
raofIt might be longer from that.  But I was testing the live session, anyway.05:24
calcoh ok05:24
LaserJock95% of the time I do Alternate installs so I might be wrong on my LiveCD timings05:24
raofBut blitting the files to disc & formatting was ~5min, or so.05:27
calcah thats not too bad05:27
calci formatted 160gb which seemed to take almost that long itself05:27
* calc is wondering why he installed jaunty after seeing gnome panel not start05:38
calcoh it finally started it just took forever, omg05:38
calcwow something is really wrong with this its dragging badly05:40
calcand my cursor is jumping all over the place05:42
calcand xorg is sitting at 50% cpu usage doing nothing05:42
* calc thinks he will reinstall intrepid05:42
=== ssweeny_ is now known as ssweeny
glickhey is a squashfs red error usually a sign of a bad cd-room when booting a live cd?06:20
=== bluesmoke is now known as Amaranth
liwglick, yes06:29
=== freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying
savvaswill ubuntu have support for apt pdiff?07:19
LaserJockat some point maybe07:20
=== freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying
savvasLaserJock: do you know how it works? is it a binary diff or does it work with source packages?07:22
LaserJocksavvas: well, pdiffs just give you deltas for the Packages or Sources index files07:24
LaserJockmakes apt-get update faster for often-updating systems07:25
dholbachgood morning07:27
* slangasek waves07:31
dholbachhiya slangasek07:31
tjaaltonTheMuso: it's still busted here07:51
pittiGood morning08:12
pittiapw: I didn't get an email about a merge request; which branch?08:12
directhexpitti, is the debhelper version jaunty ships with finalised?08:42
pittidirecthex: we can update it if necessary, but without a particular reason it is yes08:42
directhexhm. joeyh made some lovely changes to 7.1 which broke mono-related things to death. they've been worked around, but now it's either dh7.1 in jaunty, or merges rather than syncs needed to revert those workarounds in some key packages (including mono itself)08:45
apwpitti, https://code.launchpad.net/~apw/apport/suspend-resume-report-stress-log08:45
directhexmy gut says merging is safer at this stage in the release08:45
directhexmy gut also says merges freaking suck08:45
pittidirecthex: yes, if we can sync a lot of packages with that and avoid merges, it's definitively preferable08:46
directhexpitti, to sync things, i need dh7.1. the minor irony being i think dh generally needs merging, not syncing ;)08:47
directhexpitti, let me know which you prefer to do. i need to go and see a power meter about some watts08:47
pittidirecthex: oh hang on, 7.1 is experimental; I hope that's just because testing is frozen, not because it breaks stuff08:48
directhexpitti, so do i :/08:51
directhexpitti, experimental is the new unstable. we need a new repo for experimental things too experimental for experimental!08:51
seb128we need to get lenny available and start using unstable again rather ;-)08:52
directhexseb128, well, the problem with releasing on the same day as duke nukem forever is...08:54
=== ara_ is now known as ara
dholbachare there any reports of sound not working in jaunty?09:52
DktrKranzdholbach: I had some issues, I worked-around it with alsamixer09:53
DktrKranzthey're related to bug #31597109:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 315971 in pulseaudio "'Front' and 'PCM' mixer control elements must be unmuted by default on HDA platforms" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31597109:54
=== mpt_ is now known as mpt
dholbachDktrKranz: ahhh, thanks09:57
dholbachthat made it work again :)09:57
tjaaltonunfortunately alsamixer fails to work here :/09:58
tjaaltonbut that's already on lp09:58
DktrKranzdholbach: you have to redo it every reboot, saving settings is not enough, but at least it works :)09:59
dholbachDktrKranz: narf!10:03
dholbachDktrKranz, tjaalton: do you know if there's a way to set "sound profiles"? what I'd love to do is set specific values for mic and mic boost (depeding on if I use skype or record a mixtape)?10:10
tjaaltondholbach: sorry, no idea10:11
dholbachTheMuso: ^ do you know if such a thing exists?10:12
dholbachor maybe set the mic settings with a script or some such?10:13
brooniedholbach: That's not there yet.10:15
broonieThere's some in progress work on ALSA scenario support (the embedded world *really* wants it) but there's nothing standard ATM.10:16
dholbachbroonie: do you know if there's a hackish way to mess with the settings via a script?10:16
brooniealsactl store -f <filename>10:17
brooniealsactl restore -f <filename>10:17
* dholbach hugs broonie10:17
brooniewill save and restore all the settings.10:17
dholbachthat sounds like rock and roll to me10:17
broonieThe core of teh scenario stuff is being able to do that automatically and only adjust some controls.10:18
directhexknow what would be nice? if soft-pin-based chips like ALC888 could gain hardware support from a userland file rather than from a compiled-into-kernel list of per-model pin maps10:22
directhexeven better, the ability to read pin maps from windows .inf files10:22
broonieAIUI half the problem is that the data you're supposed to be able to read from H/W is often full of lies.10:25
broonieThere are already some facilities for reconfiguring HDA stuff from user space, it'd be more front end work than anything else doing what you want.10:26
broonie(AIUI, I've not worked much on HDA.)10:27
directhexit took 3 years for this mac to get audio support in ubuntu, despite having a "supported" chip, due to a lack of valid pin map in the kernel module10:28
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== azeem_ is now known as azeem
=== Johnm_ is now known as johnm
brooniedirecthex: The ALSA people (mostly Takashi for that) are very quick to turn that stuff around, sounds like an issue getting the issue upstream to them :(10:54
=== shiyee_ is now known as shiyee
_maxAnyone happen to have a deeper understanding of how the ubuntu-netinstall works? im trying to modify it to instead of executing the installer, execute a script (a backup script).11:38
kwwiipitti: heads up, some issues with internationalization, naming and freaky problems with the emblem interface were found by an artwork member...I pointed him your (and seb's) way as I have no idea what is going on11:43
kwwiijust so you know why you are being subscribed to human-icon-theme bugs :-)11:44
pittikwwii: okay11:44
cjwatson_max: yes - have you read the preseeding documentation?12:03
cjwatson_max: you can't really not execute the installer *at all* though.12:03
cjwatsonbut you might perhaps want to run the bits of it that do hardware detection?12:04
_maxcjwatson, well what im trying to do is replace a very expensive product we use with something simple, since we only use like 2% of the product anyway =/12:11
_maxmy intention is to netboot a kernel (ubuntu is usually able to detect just about everything)12:11
_maxthen load a script that determines mac address + time, and dd's an image through tar.gz onto a nfs drive.12:12
cjwatsonsome hardware detection happens in userspace, remember12:12
_maxi thought il create a netboot image for save and one for restore.12:12
_maxYes thats true.12:12
cjwatson_max: so have you tried using preseed/early_command? You could have it run a script and then reboot.12:13
_maxwe basicly only have one type of server though, and its just smudged with linux friendly intel chips.12:13
cjwatson(see https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/installation-guide/i386/appendix-preseed.html)12:13
_maxcjwatson, i have not, i will now, thank you :)12:13
cjwatsonand https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/installation-guide/i386/preseed-advanced.html#preseed-hooks12:13
directhexmmm... d-i preseed...12:14
=== ember_ is now known as ember
=== LucidFox_ is now known as LucidFox
cjwatsonI don't suppose anyone could translate https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+question/57470 for me?12:51
cjwatsonogasawara: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/jaunty-buglist.html seems to return HTTP 403 all of a sudden12:53
StevenKcjwatson: Google translate does a fairly decent job of translating it12:54
primes2hpitti: Hi :-)13:03
primes2hpitti: kwwii told me to contact you...13:04
primes2hpitti: I know he told you about emblems issues...13:04
primes2hpitti: I just need to ask you something about internationalization...13:10
\shdoko_: looks like that our (and obviously others) sun-java6-jdk/jre is heavily broken :( (http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6755573) and I can reproduce this quite easily13:53
pittiprimes2h: sure, what's up? (sorry for delay, was at lunch)13:54
pittiprimes2h: ah, you sub'ed me to a bug; will look at it soon13:55
primes2hThat's nice.. I would like to ask you another thing about human-icon-theme....13:56
primes2hI made a patch for this bug #17235313:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 172353 in human-icon-theme "Human theme has non-translatable emblem names." [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17235313:56
primes2h(I faced the other bug working on this one)13:57
primes2hIs it normal that I have to launch make update-po manually from eithin /po directory in human-icon-theme to regenerate .po files?13:58
primes2hfrom within13:58
primes2hIf I build the package (e.g. ./autogen.sh and make, or debuild) it doesn't regenerate new .po files.13:59
pittiprimes2h: regenerate> you mean merge to an updated pot? yes13:59
pittiit really shouldn't13:59
pittipackages which always merge po files on build are a pain in the butt13:59
pitti(cause constant stream of diff noise, etc.)14:00
primes2hah, ok...14:00
pittiand usually a dev knows when he changed a string, and wants to update the languages he knows about14:00
primes2hso, before building the package I need to launch make update-po.14:00
primes2hThat's what I needed to know.14:01
primes2hThank you very much!14:01
pittiprimes2h: hang on14:01
pittiprimes2h: *why* do you need to update them so often?14:01
pittiprimes2h: this bug doesn't sound like needing to update actual translations?14:02
primes2hno, I nedd this just with the patch i made, because it set up emblems translation.14:03
pittiprimes2h: right, but that still doesn't need merging the .po files14:03
primes2hThere isn't in the original package.14:03
primes2hI'll let you show...14:04
pittiprimes2h: let's take a step back14:04
pittiprimes2h: do you know what msgmerge is and when to use it?14:05
primes2hin fact no :-). but please follow me for 1 moment. :)14:09
primes2hcompare po in gnome-icon-theme with po in human-icon-theme.14:11
primes2hin gnome-icon-theme you find emblems strings14:12
primes2hin human-icon-theme no.14:12
hwildeis there a roadmap for the future of nm and /etc/network/interfaces ?14:13
primes2hI had a look at human-icon-theme source and I find there is a lack of translation infrastructure for emblems (.icon.in files etc...)14:13
pittiprimes2h: right, msgunfmt /usr/share/locale-langpack/de/LC_MESSAGES/human-icon-theme.mo just has one string (the theme name)14:14
primes2hin gnome-icon-theme instead you can translate them14:14
primes2hbecause it has the correct infrastucture.14:14
primes2hThat's the issue of bug #17235314:15
pittiso the strings aren't marked as translatable in the Code then?14:15
ubottuLaunchpad bug 172353 in human-icon-theme "Human theme has non-translatable emblem names." [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17235314:15
primes2hand that's what my patch does.14:15
primes2hyes, because in the code there are just the icon files, but not the .icon.in files.14:16
primes2h(and you need to change Makefile.am and POTFILES.in  too obviously)14:16
primes2hbut when I build the package I found that .po files remain the same (one string)14:17
primes2hit's not "updated"14:18
pittiprimes2h: right, then you need to do update-po exactly once14:18
pitti(not with every build)14:18
primes2hyes, my question was if it's normal, I don't know about it14:19
primes2hif it's normal for this kind of patch14:20
primes2hhave a look http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/108177/14:20
pittiprimes2h: yes, that's the purpose of update-po; if you change strings in the source, you need to call it once to provide translators with an updated 'template'14:20
primes2hthis is my first patch, could you please have a look if it's correct?14:21
pittiprimes2h: please don't use debian/patches/14:21
pittihuman-icon-theme is an ubuntu native package, please just change it inline14:22
pittiprimes2h: it is maintained in bzr instead, so please feel free to make a branch and mention the branch on the bug14:22
pittiprimes2h: if you don't want to use bzr, just make a normal debdiff14:22
pittibut please no patch system14:22
pittiprimes2h: I don't understand why we need a separate .icon.in file? shouldn't the string be extractable from the actual .icon file? or .icon.in be generated from .icon?14:23
pittihow does gnome-icon-theme do that?14:23
primes2hI think .icon is generated from icon.in. if you llok at gnomne-icon-theme source you'll find .icon.in file in scalable/emblems/14:24
primes2hand .icon files are generated during building.14:25
pittiprimes2h: ah, ok; then the source package shouldn't ship .icon any more14:25
savvaspitti: do you have a minute to spare?14:25
primes2hin human-icon-theme source there no .icon or .icon.in files at all.14:25
primes2hjust .svg files14:26
pitti!ask | savvas14:26
ubottusavvas: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line, so others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)14:26
savvaspitti: Bug #23568, bug #140934 and bug #304767 link to upstream http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=354661 - one of them is private, can you choose one "master" from them?14:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 23568 in gnome-system-tools "[time-admin] The timezone selected during install is different in (Gnome) Clock" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/2356814:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 140934 in system-tools-backends "Default Time zone/City for Serbia(Europe) Should be Belgrade" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/14093414:26
ubottuBug 304767 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/304767 is private14:26
ubottuGnome bug 354661 in s-t-b "time-admin fails to lookup "Europe/Helsinki" as time zone value" [Minor,Unconfirmed]14:26
savvasI don't know if the private one is duplicate though14:26
pittisavvas: I can't read the private one either14:27
primes2hpitti: I'll do a simple debdiif and I'll show you later, ok?14:27
pittisavvas: I guess the first ones are really dupes, but I can't be 100% sure without testing the upstream fix14:27
pittiprimes2h: cheers14:27
primes2hpitti: Thank you very much...14:28
savvaspitti: I'll see if I can create a patch for debian and ubuntu packages14:28
hwildeanybody on lm-sensors:   sensors-detect could modprobe the modules it suggests adding to /etc/modules, would be helpful14:31
Karnaughis there a specific channel for the ubuntu livecd14:38
Karnaughtrying to figure out how to remaster it to have a maximum screen resolution14:38
* calc wonders how linux can md5sum a 700mb file in 1.7s off a hd14:52
pittiPenguin Power!14:52
pitticalc: maybe it was still in the cache?14:53
cjwatsonKarnaugh: the Ubuntu live CD just uses X's automatic configuration, so if you're having trouble with that, you would be best off talking to the X people14:53
doko_\sh: 6u12 isn't released yet14:54
ScottKdoko_: Are we going to get python 2.6 soon?14:54
Karnaughcjwatson: well, when I replace the empty /etc/X11/xorg.conf with the same basic one dexconf creates but with some mode lines14:54
Karnaughcjwatson: it gets overwritten at boot14:54
doko_ScottK: yes14:54
Karnaughcjwatson: so I would assume something from Ubuntu changes is forcing dexconf to run14:54
ScottKdoko_: Great.  I'm also looking forward to Python 3 support in pycentral.14:55
ScottKI've got one module to package that supports it upstream already.14:55
cjwatsonKarnaugh: that would be /scripts/casper-bottom/20xconfig in the initramfs, which runs dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg14:55
calcpitti: hmm i guess so, it seemed to spit out real info14:56
cjwatsonKarnaugh: if you have already configured X in the squashfs, then you can remove that script from the initramfs (with the caveat that that means it will probably only work well on similar systems to yours)14:56
Karnaughcjwatson: ok thanks14:57
Karnaughcjwatson: the config it seems to create is bland enough that the rest of X auto config stuff should just happen14:57
Karnaughcjwatson: problem I have is often it decides to use resolutions way higher than the screen is really usable on14:57
cjwatsonKarnaugh: that's an X bug, and we'd appreciate it if you could report it so that we can make it work14:58
Karnaughcjwatson: righto14:58
cjwatson(cf. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Reporting)14:58
Karnaughcjwatson: got 3 of the same IBM boxes here which do it - I think the LCD is crap though so DPMS doesn't work14:59
calcKarnaugh: what size lcd and what resolution was it attempting?15:05
Karnaughcalc: 17" LCD and I don't know what res it tried, the LCD just spazzed outand turned off but X was starting fine behind it15:09
calcKarnaugh: oh ok15:09
tkamppeterpitti, when will you do your next SRU/-proposed run?15:11
pittitkamppeter: tomorrow morning15:11
tkamppeterOK, I asked because of letting CUPS and foomatic-filters go into -proposed.15:12
tkamppeterpitti, in bug 308817 I have proposed a simple patch backported from GS 8.64 to solve the problem for at least a part of the reporters (with the others probably bitten by bug 299918). We could SRU it, too. I could make a GS package for Intrepid which you could move to -proposed tomorrow, too.15:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 308817 in cups "duplex printing through CUPS no longer works" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30881715:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 299918 in foomatic-filters "Cannot print duplex in intrepid with Ricoh Aficio 2060, Ricoh Aficio MPC3000 or Brother HL-4050cdn using the openprinting drivers" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29991815:16
pittitkamppeter: a gs patch backported to cups?15:19
tkamppeterpitti, the bug has a ghostscript task which I have nominated for Intrepid. The CUPS task I will mark invalid.15:21
tkamppeterAnd ubottu will still consider this a CUPS bug: bug 30881715:22
ubottuLaunchpad bug 308817 in ghostscript "duplex printing through CUPS no longer works" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30881715:22
tkamppeterubottu has improved!15:22
ubottuSorry, I don't know anything about has improved!15:22
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek - Day 4 to kick off in #ubuntu-classroom in 19m. :-)15:41
calcumm if you aren't hooked up to a network when installing via alternate cd it comments out the security lines in sources.list ?!15:46
cjwatsoncalc: fixed in jaunty15:51
calccjwatson: great :)15:51
ogracalc, else it would hang in apt-get update15:51
cjwatsonogra: not true any more15:51
calcogra: it doesn't verify all the other lines in the sources.list though and doesn't comment them out, it just comments out the security ones15:51
cjwatsonhasn't been true for a long time. It was just a mistake in apt-setup that it behaved this way15:52
cjwatsonI'd really prefer people not to say "it's meant to be that way" about installer bugs, especially when I've already answered them :)15:52
calcheh :)15:52
calci tried going to jaunty last night after intrepid blew up on me but it was too broken to use15:53
calcxorg was sitting at 50% cpu and cursor was jumping all over the place :-\15:53
pitticalc: might be bug 30730615:57
ubottuLaunchpad bug 307306 in gnome-power-manager "upgrade to 2: makes session utterly slow" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30730615:57
pitticalc: did you check Xorg.0.log for thousands of randr calls?15:57
calcpitti: no, it was so slow i barely could get it to shut down15:58
tkamppeterpitti, bug 308817 is now ready for an SRU. New Ghostscript uploaded into -proposed.15:58
ubottuLaunchpad bug 308817 in ghostscript "duplex printing through CUPS no longer works" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30881715:58
pitticalc: that is the case for me as well when running on battery or changing anythign power related15:58
* ogra curses qemu 15:59
calcpitti: i have the same video as listed in that bug so its most likely the same bug15:59
calcpitti: i was running on AC when i was seeing the problem15:59
ograwhy does it offer me a mode that redirects stdio if it doesnt accept ctrl-c on stdio then :/15:59
ograsilly thing15:59
cjwatsonI recently applied Peter Clifton's patches, but haven't been running for long enough to be certain that they fix the problem for me16:01
ogasawaracjwatson: hrm, I'll investigate why the jaunty-buglist is broken.  Feel free to use http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/qa-jaunty-buglist.html as an alternate view for now16:01
cjwatsonit feels a bit smoother, but we'll see16:02
cjwatsonogasawara: thanks16:02
ogasawaracjwatson: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/jaunty-buglist.html is back up16:26
cjwatsonasac: threw an ancient bug over to you, bug 898016:46
ubottuLaunchpad bug 8980 in network-manager "hostname -f does not return a proper FQDN" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/898016:46
cjwatsonasac: I'm changing the tag from qa-jaunty-foundations to qa-jaunty-desktop; if you reassign it back for whatever reason, could you set the tag appropriately too?16:47
ScottKcjwatson: I'm not sure how that got pushed to network-manager.  I've seen that on servers with no NM at all.16:49
cjwatsonScottK: Well, read my last comment, as there is definitely a network-manager bug16:51
cjwatsonScottK: if you think there is an issue with *current* installations, I need the full /etc/hosts file16:51
cjwatsonin which case it should not be reassigned back from network-manager, but an extra task should be added on netcfg16:51
ScottKOK.  Let me check and see if if I stil have it anywhere.16:52
asaccjwatson: nm doesnt touch /etc/hosts if you have ifupdown plugin in use. there were times when NM did this during intrepid cycle though.16:53
asacanyway, its still a bug16:53
asacnm seems to behave not properly for debian when you enable the "update host" feature16:54
cjwatsonasac: That explains why I can't trigger it now, certainly; but we should bring that code into line with current practices just in case16:54
asacwhich isnt the default hough16:54
ScottKcjwatson: Does a hardy box count as a 'current' installation?16:54
cjwatsonScottK: yes16:54
cjwatsoncurrent enough to be interesting, anyway16:54
asaccjwatson: you should be able to reproduce by disabling ifupdown in /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf16:54
asacand killall nm-system-settings afterwards16:54
cjwatsonScottK: (reload the bug and look at my last comment)16:54
* ScottK looks16:54
calcis there a way to restore evolution backup on a new install without having to 'setup' evolution again first?17:07
ScottKcjwatson: Added to the bug.17:07
calci have the backup but it won't let me get to the point to restore it without setting it up first afaict17:07
* calc thinks this was a bit of a oversight by developers17:08
calcdoh i see it is there17:08
calcyou just have to go past the first page to get to it :)17:09
* calc doesn't recall seeing that page the last time he had to do a restore17:09
=== Keybuk_ is now known as Keybjk
=== Keybjk is now known as Keybuk
cjwatsonScottK: that log shows, from postfix configuration:17:33
cjwatsonJan 26 16:41:46 in-target: setting destinations: mailout02.controlledmail.com, mailout02, localhost.localdomain, localhost17:33
cjwatsonScottK: which sort of suggests that hostname --fqdn worked at installation time - where else would it get that?17:34
cjwatsonScottK: is it possible that anything else could have deleted the FQDN from /etc/hosts?17:34
* cjwatson goes to have a poke at netcfg17:35
ScottKI don't have any non-packaged software on that box except a few scripts that definitely aren't doing that.17:35
* ScottK can't think of anything unusual installed there.17:36
cjwatsonit *is* possible for netcfg to write it that way, admittedly17:36
cjwatsonI'm just wondering how postfix got it17:36
ScottKI think it may come up in a debconf question for postfix17:37
* ScottK tries to remember17:37
cjwatsonScottK: it looks like static networking; can you confirm?17:37
ScottKYes. It's static17:37
lamont--fqdn comes from resolv.conf comes from dhcp...17:38
cjwatsonScottK: OK - and can you attach /etc/resolv.conf?17:38
cjwatsonlamont: no DHCP17:38
* lamont is in meeting17:38
ScottKcjwatson: Sure.  Getting.17:39
apwjerone, about?17:49
ScottKcjwatson: Added resolv.conf to the bug.17:55
ogradpkg-preconfigure: unable to re-open stdin:18:09
* ogra wonders if that should worry him18:09
ScottKcjwatson: I did confirm that there's s debconf question in the postfix setup that might explain it having that information.18:10
=== sabdfl1 is now known as sabdfl
cjwatsonScottK: looks like the domain wasn't set at netcfg time. Final question, I hope; /var/log/installer/cdebconf/questions.dat?18:18
ScottKcjwatson: Attached.18:32
* calc notes 8.10 is now not working for him either stupid iwl3945 isn't connecting anymore18:34
* calc hopes 9.04 ends up being more reliable than 8.10 wifi18:35
* calc has had trouble with 8.10 wifi many times and didn't need it to happen again today18:35
ScottKcalc: Did you try the kernel in -proposed?18:37
calcScottK: i think evolution in proposed ate my system so i was trying to avoid using proposed anymore18:39
ScottKGenerally a good rule, but IIRC there are some 3945 fixes in it.18:39
calchmm ok i'll see if i can somehow selectively upgrade just the kernel18:40
LordMetroidDoes Evolution need to be installed?18:40
calcLordMetroid: if i want decent imap support, well in this case just slightly more decent than thunderbird18:40
LordMetroidI've never found such an application relevant to my interests...18:40
ScottKcalc: Enable proposed and then apt-get install the appropriate kernel metapackage18:40
LordMetroidBut if I try to remove it, the package manager wants to remove whole gnome...18:41
LordMetroidIs this a bug?18:41
* calc is going to test -7 first then maybe upgrade to the one in proposed18:41
calcLordMetroid: hmm did you try removing evolution or evolution-data-server?18:41
calcLordMetroid: e-d-s is used by gnome in general but i think you probably should be able to remove evolution the app18:42
=== apachelogger is now known as apachelogger_
loolcjwatson: When starting a vm with init=/bin/sh and a rootfs created with debootstrap --foreign, if I launch debootstrap's second state directly it fails installing base-files and base-passwd because dpkg insists on PATH being set18:47
loolcjwatson: Simply typing export PATH in such a shell is enough to allow installation; do you think this should a) be done in debootstrap b) be allowed in dpkg or c) left to the end-user?18:48
cjwatsonhow come PATH isn't set?18:48
loolcjwatson: The shell sets it, but it's not exported by default18:48
loolthe default value of PATH is sane BTW18:48
cjwatsoneven the kernel sets PATH when invoking processes18:48
calcis all that i need installed via apt-get install linux-generic to go to the proposed kernel?18:49
cjwatsonah, although not while invoking pid 118:49
cjwatsonlool: I think it should be exported by default in the shell18:49
loolcjwatson: So it's a /bin/sh issue?18:49
loolI think that makes sense18:49
cjwatsonyes, it sounds like a dash bug to me. It's the sort of thing you don't normally notice18:50
cjwatsonbecause almost every process gets PATH from its parent, and thus already exported18:50
* lool tries to find out how to fix this in dash18:51
ogracjwatson, lool, unlikely to be a dash bug, i know the mojo guys had the same issue (and they explicitly excluded dash in debootstrap)18:54
calcgrr same issue with -1118:55
loolIt's unlikely to be a dash bug but they excluded dash?18:55
* calc kicks 8.10 kernel :-\18:55
ogralool, they had the same issue even dash wasnt installed in the target18:56
ogralool, so it's either dash and bash or something lower level18:57
ogralool, http://www.handhelds.org/hypermail/mojo/0/0011.html18:58
ogra> export PATH=/bin:/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin #VERY IMPORTANT otherwise dpkg18:59
ogra> fails.18:59
ograand they run sudo debootstrap --verbose --arch arm --foreign --exclude=dash18:59
loolHmm doesn't seem too hard to fix fortunately19:00
calci keep getting wlan0: link timed out in the daemon.log19:02
calcand it never connects to my AP19:02
ograremove the tinfoil wrap :)19:03
calcit worked fine until 8.10 started acting up yesterday then it was fine with 9.04 but 9.04 had issues with xorg19:04
calchmm maybe i can carefully install the 9.04 kernel19:04
calcany danger in using it?19:04
* ScottK knows at least one person who's done that.19:04
* ScottK waves to milli.19:04
* milli looks up ...19:04
ScottKAren't you running Intrepid with 2.6.28?19:05
calcmilli: did jaunty kernel help you?19:05
milliI'm running linux-image with Intrepid...  only real trick is you have to bring over the source of glibc and recompile and install19:05
calcyou have to recompile glibc?19:06
loolKeybuk: I see that dash mentions Vcs-Git: http://smarden.org/git/dash.git/; couldn't find an Ubuntu branch in there though; should I strip it?19:06
milliJaunty kernel fixed all my network file system issues...  I had been having problems since 2.6.2219:06
loolor s/Vcs-Git/Original-&/19:06
milliglibc and the kernel are pretty tightly intertwined... unfortunately.  It's not very hard tho19:07
Keybuklool: dunno, I tend to leave those alone19:07
KeybukXSBC-Original-* isn't it?19:07
loolXS- for sure, don't think we need B and C19:07
loolKeybuk: Problem with leaving them is when people use debcheckout or apt-get source19:08
savvas*let's hope they fix the problems with atheros wireless cards as well :P19:08
loolThe latter will warn and the former will do the wrong thing19:08
Keybuklool: I guess19:08
Keybukshouldn't there be an update-maintainer a like that sorts this out?19:09
Keybukindeed, shouldn't update-maintainer do it? :p19:09
millicalc: do you need sepcific instructions on how to do it?19:09
loolIt should, I even thought of fixing that script, but it slipped my mind as I don't use it19:09
millispecific even19:10
calcmilli: no, hmm it seemed to work here without needing a glibc recompile, what happens without updating glibc?19:10
calcand immediate connect without problem on jaunty kernel, yipee19:10
milliyou may get random crashes or hangs is all  ;-)19:10
calcmilli: sounds like 8.10 already to me ;-)19:10
LaserJockKeybuk: how would update-maintainer be able to do it in any automated way?19:11
milliI've never tried backporting a more recent kernel without re-compiling glibc19:11
LaserJockUbuntu bzr branches are sort of spread around19:11
KeybukLaserJock: if it's not bzr, on /ubuntu/ and on lp - move it out of the way ;)19:11
millibut it may be "good enough" w.r.t. changes between 2.6.27 and 2.6.28 that you'll be fine.19:11
calcmilli: i used to run dev kernels all the time without doing glibc backports (back in 2.5 timeframe)19:12
pochubryce, tjaalton: hi folks, could you have a quick look at bug 287542 and tell me if it's an application bug or an X one?19:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 287542 in gtk-vnc "vinagre crash with "BadRequest (invalid request code or no such operation)" when I try to connect to VNC server" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28754219:12
LaserJockKeybuk: but we don't yet have a complete standard for VCS, unlike for the maintainer field19:12
brycepochu: ok19:12
KeybukLaserJock: we do19:12
KeybukBzr, Launchpad-hosted, owned by ~ubuntu-core-dev for main, ~ubuntu-dev for universe, against the package name and /ubuntu as the branch name19:13
LaserJockI don't think that's actually right though19:13
brycepochu: application error19:13
LaserJockit's mostly right19:13
pochubryce: ok, thank you!19:13
brycepochu: like it says in the error message, "This probably reflects a bug in the program."19:13
KeybukLaserJock: that's the standard, and what we're pushing towards19:13
millicalc: I just like machines where uptime shows 3 digit figures and the word "days"...  ;-)19:13
pochubryce: ah, right19:13
pochubryce: unfortunately it seems to be in a library :/19:14
LaserJockKeybuk: but I believe KDE for instance, doesn't use ~ubuntu{-core,}-dev19:14
Keybukmilli: security experts like them too, they're good places to break into for the latest virus19:14
KeybukLaserJock: that's wrong then19:14
calcmilli: heh well i generally reinstall every 6 months anyway so i don't get uptime that long19:14
LaserJockKeybuk: why?19:14
KeybukLaserJock: because it means a member of ubuntu-core-dev cannot change kde packages19:14
Keybukwhich is wrong19:14
Keybukwe don't have maintainership in Ubuntu in that way19:14
LaserJockbut it means that none ubuntu-dev can change packages19:14
Keybuk(though it's worth noting that with archive reorg, the team part gets wider)19:15
Keybuk so I wouldn't check the team bit either for nwo19:15
LaserJockEdubuntu will likely do the same thing19:15
LaserJockI think Xubuntu does the same19:15
brycepochu: probably the lib is making an X call that the driver doesn't actually support19:16
milliKeybuk: good point... although kernel security issues still aren't all that frequent19:16
KeybukLaserJock: it's certainly true that they don't use git though ;)19:16
milliI don't count ssh upgrades or apache upgrades in machine uptime ;-)19:16
jdstrandmilli: they are nearly monthly :P19:16
Keybukso we could move non-Vcs-Bzr-on-lp out of the way <g>19:16
Keybukmilli: by my count, there's been roughly one kernel security update a month over the past year19:17
millijdong: I guess I need to pay more attention then19:17
millijdstrand: oops19:18
* milli raises eyebrows, wonders what mailing he's not on and should be on19:18
Keybukmilli: ubuntu-security-announce19:18
Keybukalso ubuntu-uptime-is-not-a-dicksize-measurement ;)19:19
directhexwoo, mono session in classroom soon :o19:20
millihow's this for scary...19:21
milli 12:20:45 up 281 days, 23:18,  1 user,  load average: 0.40, 0.14, 0.1019:21
RainCTarr those mono transitions are starting to become annoying19:21
* milli is a slacker19:21
directhexRainCT, the gnome# one was an unexpected problem19:22
calcmilli: when i installed the headers it automatically upgraded libc6 as well19:24
millicalc: you should be good then19:26
milliI just wanted to make sure to avoid pulling in other packages from jaunty...  I pulled in 2.6.28 back in December19:27
=== apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger
cjwatsonogra: more likely to be a bug common to both dash and bash19:48
loolYeah it is19:48
ograprobably ... just wanted to point out that they have it in bash19:48
loolI just fixed it for dash19:48
loolIt took me a while because for some reason init=/bin/sh spawns a bash despite /bin/sh being a symling to dash19:48
ograheh, my build-arm-rootfs script shrinks every day by a line :)19:48
ograyesterday i dropped mknod, today i can drop the PATH setting :)19:49
loolcjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/108351/ I'm going to reboot before uploading though19:51
cjwatsonlool: makes sense19:51
loolNow if I could understand why init=/bin/sh launches bash...19:52
ogralool, filesystem issue ?19:53
ograwhat do you use in your image ?19:53
loologra: ext319:53
ograhmm, not then ...19:53
loologra: Even running the system if I ls -l /bin/sh I see dash19:53
loolAfter the debootstrap it now runs dash instead of bash19:55
ograis e2fstools installed in the first or second run ?19:56
ograthe only thing i can imagine is that it has to do with the filesystem ...19:56
cjwatsone2fsprogs is Priority: required and thus installed in the first stage. (It has nothing to do with how the kernel interprets filesystems anyway ...)19:58
loolPerhaps I misread /bin/sh -> /bin/dash which was really /bin/bash; /me redoes a bootstrap19:59
loollrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2009-01-22 21:00 rootfs2/bin/sh -> bash20:00
loolI probably wanted to read dash but it was bash20:00
loolSo when you run second stage it's in bash20:00
cjwatsonoh, because of the complex way the symlink is handled20:01
cjwatsonnothing much to worry about I think20:01
loolcjwatson: Yeah I was just confused and wanted to find out, but I found out that it was just me :)20:03
directhexmono session now on! gogogo :p20:03
superm1Keybuk, what's your opinion about applications calling 'udevadm trigger'?  I'm looking over an old bug (bug 262974), and remembering that one of the cases that causes it is because dkms calls 'udevadm trigger' to replay devices in case one of  the devices is now supported by a newly built kernel module20:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 262974 in network-manager "[MASTER] networkmanager display connections twice in intrepid" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26297420:04
apwjerone, ping20:04
Keybuksuperm1: NEVER EVER DO IT20:06
Keybukin fact, you could be responsible for a major upgrade bug for jaunty20:08
Keybukminor effects of trigger:20:10
Keybuk - network manager showing multiple copies of the devices20:10
Keybukmajor effects of trigger:20:11
Keybuk - mounted disk drives being "corrupted" until a reboot20:11
Keybukupgrade issues:20:11
Keybuk - if you trigger during an intrepid->jaunty upgrade, your entire /dev will become root:root/066020:11
ScottKIs any of this in Intrepid?20:11
Keybukyou can demonstrate this quite effectively20:12
Keybukif you have more then just / mounted20:12
* ScottK is having something very much like "mounted disk drives being "corrupted" until a reboot" recently20:12
Keybukrun udevadm trigger a few times and peek in one of your mounted disks20:12
Keybuklike /usr /var or something20:12
Keybukat some point, it'll declare data error or something20:12
Keybuksuperm1: *please* get rid of that udevadm trigger asap20:13
Keybuksuperm1: I would even declare this an SRU candidate20:13
Keybukyou can simply modprobe the module, you know? :)20:13
cjwatsonso what about the installer's uses of udevadm trigger to make sure that the device is actually available before continuing? I still have never seen a good replacement for that20:14
Keybukcjwatson: e.g.?20:14
* ScottK admits to being in over his head and hopes for some fixoring.20:14
cjwatsonpartitioning: wait for devices to be available before we try to mount them20:14
cjwatsonor mkfs them20:14
Keybukhow does udevadm trigger help you there?20:14
Keybuktrigger doesn't wait for anything20:14
Keybukyou mean settle, don't you? :)20:14
Keybukwell, the settle is quite correct in the installer case20:15
Keybukthe trigger isn't20:15
Keybukbut the installer is cut down enough that the trigger probably doesn't do any damage - just slows things up20:15
cjwatsonso if I take that trigger out and it breaks, you'll help me debug it? :-)20:15
cjwatsonin the context of ubiquity, the trigger might well run with mounted filesystems20:15
Keybukalways ;)20:15
Keybukyeah, trigger on mounted filesystems is bad20:16
cjwatsonok, changed it in my local tree and will test later20:16
Keybukwe run a whole bunch of things on the filesystem, and if the filesystem changes under it, we can end up unmounting it or declaring it corrupt ;)20:16
cjwatsonhow does udev manage to declare a filesystem corrupt in such a way that the kernel notices?20:16
Keybuknot udev, devmapper20:16
Keybukit does something inside the kernel20:16
KeybukI didn't debug much further admittedly20:16
Keybuktrigger is a one-time only boot-time tool20:17
Keybukif you really must hammer your system20:17
Keybukudevadm trigger --action=change20:17
Keybukis safe20:17
Keybukthe default (action=add) is _not_ safe, you're adding duplicate devices for everything20:18
cjwatsonare uevents guaranteed to be in udev's queue after modprobe?20:18
ograand settle will now work without explicitly triggering ?20:18
Keybukogra: settle always works20:19
ograi remember you had to call trigger first before20:19
cjwatsonI mean, can the following happen? modprobe; udevadm settle "nothing to do"; "oh hey, an event arrived"20:19
Keybukogra: you've never had to call trigger first20:19
Keybukcjwatson: at least one uevent is guaranteed to be in udev's queue20:19
Keybukbut it's probably not the one you're after20:19
cjwatsonyou know, I'm going to go and search logs at some point, because I swear you advised me to use trigger; settle originally20:19
Keybukmodprobe <entire subsytem>; udevadm settle20:19
Keybukwon't usually wait for devices on that subsystem20:19
cjwatsonso we *do* need udevadm trigger --action=change to make sure?20:19
Keybukcjwatson: no, you shouldn't need trigger at all, ever20:20
Keybukif udev is running, trigger is only telling it what it already knows20:20
cjwatsonlet us say that we want to wait for devices on that subsystem20:20
cjwatsonfor example, d-i's hardware detection loads subsystems and then wants to check whether you actually have any disks20:20
cjwatson(so it can produce a useful error message rather than a blank partitioner)20:20
Keybukhow many devices are you waiting for?20:20
cjwatsoncompletion; I'd like the kernel to be finished probing the bug20:21
Keybukwhich bus are you thinking of? :)20:21
cjwatsonwhatever it's currently looking at20:21
Keybukthere's no such concept for most of them20:21
cjwatsonI suppose this is why the initramfs has that crappy sleep 30020:22
Keybuk"probing" USB for example is just raising a voltage on the cable20:22
Keybukat some point, whatever devices are connected will draw some of that power and start asking for some more20:22
Keybukand at that point, you go "oh look, a device"20:22
Keybukthere's no "and all devices that are connected are up" type event20:23
cjwatsonI'll probably have to rewrite disk-detect's check at some point20:23
cjwatsoncan I just double-check the partitioning case with you? that's very important20:23
kees(any reason eSATA drives don't auto-mount?)20:23
cjwatsonwe already have the disk device, by definition20:23
cjwatsonwe do whatever the block device ioctl is to get the kernel to reload the partition table20:23
Keybukand the kernel will change the partition table20:24
Keybuk(or fail the ioctl)20:24
cjwatsonwhen that ioctl returns, will there be a uevent in the queue for the new partition devices?20:24
Keybukthat reorganises /sys for that device20:24
Keybukand issues "remove", "add" and "change" uevents to udev for the partitions20:24
Keybukwhich udev grabs, and runs things like vol_id on20:24
cjwatsonright - I just need to know whether those uevents are issued (over netlink?) before the ioctl returns20:24
cjwatsonso that the settle is correct as a sequence point20:24
Keybukone moment20:25
loolRiddell: I see you have split libwmf in two; did you seed it?20:25
KeybukBLKRRPART has a BKL around it, so there's a reasonable chance20:25
loolRiddell: Cause otherwise we'll lose wmf support in Gtk+20:25
cjwatson(maybe you can show me at the sprint how to check this; I have no problem grovelling around in the kernel but don't know the driver core well)20:25
cjwatsonKeybuk: I think we actually use BLKPG_ADD_PARTITION20:26
loolRiddell: Don't know how widespread it is, but it's something which refrained me from doing the split :)20:26
cjwatson(rather, remove* add*)20:26
Keybukreally? fdisk doesn't20:27
cjwatsonparted does20:27
cjwatsonpotentially also DM_DEVICE_CREATE for devmapper devices, whatever that turns into in ioctl terms20:27
KeybukBLKRRPART, BLKPG_ADD_PARTITION and BLKPG_DEL_PARTITION are all deliberately safe20:28
Keybukthe uevent will be in the queue and the /sys nodes updated when the ioctl returns20:28
KeybukDM_* are also safe20:28
cjwatsonok, excellent20:28
Keybukyou may obviously want to use udevadm settle to make sure20:29
Keybuka) udev has taken the event and made the device20:29
Keybukb) and isn't running vol_id or anything on it right now ;)20:29
cjwatsonBTW, is this a change I should be pushing to Debian, if you know the udev/kernel differences well enough to say?20:29
Keybukthis should be completely compatible ;)20:30
cjwatsonI'll have to do some detailed checks of update-dev uses20:30
Keybukthere were some fixes in "recent" kernel history20:30
Keybuk(around the .22 mark)20:30
cjwatsonbut at least I only need to change one place20:30
cjwatsonDebian's on 2.6.26 now20:30
Keybukbut those fixes look like they were limited to making sure that the partitions of a disk were also available before the disk event20:31
Keybukyou actually get the uevents in the order20:31
Keybuk sda1, sda2, sda3, sda20:31
Keybukwhich seems backwards, but is in practice exactly what you want20:31
Keybuk(so you can get the disk event and check for partitions)20:31
Keybukwith most modules20:32
Keybukwhen the modprobe returns, the core objects of the module should be available in /sys and uevents queued20:33
loolcjwatson: And that'd be the bash patch http://paste.ubuntu.com/108362/20:33
Keybukif the module claims a device, that should have been updated20:33
Keybuk(but it may be waiting on firmware before things like class devices show up)20:33
Keybukif the module is a subsystem, /sys/bus/nnn should exist, but devices may not20:33
cjwatsonlool: it is suspicious that it's #if 0-ed out in bash20:33
cjwatsonlool: it might be worth chasing down why20:34
Keybukfrom mdz's upgrade log20:34
KeybukExamining /etc/kernel/postinst.d.20:34
Keybukrun-parts: executing /etc/kernel/postinst.d/dkms20:34
Keybuk * Running DKMS auto installation service for kernel 2.6.28-4-generic       [80G20:34
Keybuk *  nvidia ()...       [80G nvidia (): AUTOINSTALL not set in its dkms.conf.20:34
Keybuksuperm1: I'm so beating you into a pulp next time I see you ;-)20:35
loolcjwatson: I see the change mentionned in CHANGES, but no rationale:20:36
loolw.  Bash no longer auto-exports HOME, PATH, SHELL, or TERM, even though it gives them default values if they don't appear in the initial environment.20:36
cjwatsonlool: Chet Ramey's usually pretty responsive if you mail him, I think20:37
loolcjwatson: thanks for the hint20:37
cjwatsonScottK: it looks very much as if you simply didn't tell netcfg your hostname at installation time, but only told postfix20:44
cjwatsonthe only match for "controlledmail.com" in questions.dat is for postfix20:45
superm1Keybuk, OK i'll change that behavior.  I'll do an SRU for just that change too in Intrepid.20:52
Keybuksuperm1: bug #320200 btw20:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 320200 in dkms "Never call udevadm trigger!" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32020020:53
superm1Keybuk, yeah just saw it in bug mail.  i'm doing another DKMS release with a handful of other stuff, and will fit it in there20:53
superm1Keybuk, where  is mdz's upgrade log?  I have a suspicion what happened there but would like to verify20:54
keeswhoa.  I'd never seen this C convention before:   argv[0] ?: "unknown"     I thought you always had to have stuff between ? and :20:54
Keybukkees: gcc extension20:54
keesKeybuk: ah-ha.20:54
KeybukThe middle operand in a conditional expression may be omitted.  Then if20:56
Keybukthe first operand is nonzero, its value is the value of the conditional20:56
Keybuksuperm1: bug #31794420:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 317944 in udev "Wrong permissions in /dev after Intrepid->Jaunty upgrade" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31794420:56
superm1Keybuk, okay thanks20:56
TheMusotjaalton: hrm I'll have to update my jaunty install and try again. Failing that, I'll do a fresh install and try again as well.21:08
maxbThe jaunty-added "Recommends: gnome-dbg" in bug-buddy means that a lot of -dbg packages get installed on upgrade. More interestingly, I've uninstalled evolution - but this Recommends chain pulls it back in on upgrade. Are these things that I should be reporting, and if so where, since they are general dependency mesh issues rather than relating to a particular package21:10
Keybukcjwatson: kernelwise, I guess I'm starting to understand kernel source fairly well these days ;)21:15
calcbbl, seagate finally released a firmware for the 7200.11 that won't brick it21:18
calctime to update my drive before it dies21:18
directhexgood luck21:19
mar77imaybe somebody can give me a hint here: http://pastebin.com/m54d8729421:21
ScottKcjwatson: I'm pretty sure if I didn't tell it the domain, I didn't get asked.  I have a vague recollection of it working with some combinations of network/no-network, dhcp/no-dhcp, and rDNS or no rDNS, but not which.21:21
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tjaaltonTheMuso: ok, thanks21:29
cjwatsonScottK: I believe you're meant to type in the FQDN at the hostname prompt21:30
cjwatsonmaybe it isn't as clear as it might be21:30
calcmy drive now won't die well immediately anyway :)21:40
directhexyou hope21:41
* directhex hugs his samsung21:41
calcdirecthex: there are ways to revive them if they do die but it involves hooking up to the drives serial port (not sata port)21:42
primes2hpitti: Hello.21:42
primes2hpitti: I have the correct debdiff21:43
directhexcalc, yay for 38k baud!21:43
primes2hCould you have a look please? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/108387/21:43
calcdirecthex: heh, yea you just have to type a few commands into the drive to reset it21:43
TheMusoDrives have a serial port? THis is new to me.21:44
* TheMuso doesn't think he's see it.21:44
calcTheMuso: there are a few pins next to the sata port its rx/tx for a serial connection at least on seagate drives21:44
TheMusoah ok.21:44
calcTheMuso: 'undocumented' pins ;-)21:45
calcTheMuso: you can do some interesting things in there if you find the manual, including wiping the smart sector21:47
calcer what happened to gweather in jaunty, you can't select which weather station to use in a city anymore22:01
calcis this considered 'improvement'?22:01
slangasekgweather, a comedy of errors in three acts22:02
calca place like houston is ~ 1000 sq.mi. and only having 'Houston' as an option isn't particularly useful22:02
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ScottKcjwatson: I'll try and carve out some time to dig back into it.23:10
dtchenbryce: does 315971 persist in current jaunty?23:24
* bryce looks23:25
brycedtchen: I'll need to update to latest first; I'll do that and report findings on that bug23:26
dtchenbryce: thanks23:28

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