[00:02] <jussi01> Jack_Sparrow: why the kick on that guy=? he apologised...
[00:04] <Jack_Sparrow> jussi01 Johnny is in the russian channel.. says from greece and asking for a third language
[00:05] <jussi01> Jack_Sparrow: I was talking about dpawe3l
[00:05] <Jack_Sparrow> Tried to PM with no response
[00:06] <Flannel> Who runs floodbot2?
[00:06] <Flannel> jussi01: Oh, did you see the stuff where the floodbots banned the wrong person yesterday?
[00:07] <jussi01> no. hehe. how did that happen?
[00:07]  * jussi01 should be in bed
[00:07] <Jack_Sparrow> No, I didnt see that either
[00:07] <Flannel> I'm not really sure.  Someone pasted some stuff, and then they banned the guy he was pasting to.
[00:08] <Flannel> The thing in -monitor said "user n" which wasn't as far as I could tell, related to either of them.
[00:09]  * genii fluffs jussi01's pillow
[00:10] <Flannel> jussi01: it was oCean_ (n=harkemaa@82-169-65-212.ip.telfort.nl) and was... 25 hours and 10 minutes ago.
[00:11] <Flannel> That was the one who was banned by mistake.  That netsplit last night shuffled some of my windwos, so I don't have logs for -monitor
[00:12] <jussi01> Flannel: I dont do floodbots, go annoy pici, ljl or nal
[00:12] <Flannel> Sounds good.
[00:12] <Flannel> But, who runs FB2?  We're down to one right now.
[00:15] <jussi01> nalioth: I think has control/hosting of at least one of them
[00:15] <jussi01> iirc
[01:02] <Flannel> Two pronged attack!
[01:02] <jussi01> rofl
[01:02] <jussi01> and Im still up
[01:02] <Jack_Sparrow> You hit em high I'll hit em low
[01:02]  * Flannel notes that advances in dual-op processing has greatly increased the efficiency of administration of IRC channels.
[01:02] <Jack_Sparrow> Cute
[01:04] <Seeker`> jussi01: is sleep evading you?
[01:05] <jussi01> yes
[01:05] <jussi01> sigh
[01:05] <Seeker`> i'd k-line it if i were you
[01:06] <Flannel> sleep evasion is a one way ticket to the k train.
[01:26] <Mez> great response :D
[01:26] <Mez> http://rafb.net/p/8Kzy0X77.html
[01:31] <Seeker`> nice
[01:42] <jussi01> Pricey: you around?
[01:58] <Seeker`> I think he is more of atriangle
[02:00] <Pricey> jussi01: whats up?
[02:28] <Seeker`> hmm, someone just changed their nick from ango|ciggy to ango|high, inappropriate?
[02:32] <nikrud> Seeker`, just glanced in, ango| unsuitable seems very appropriate ;)
[02:32] <Seeker`> nikrud: I asked him to change it :)
[02:34] <Flannel> sigh
[02:35] <Seeker`> Flannel?
[02:35] <Flannel> Repeat Drive-bys
[03:15] <nikrud> weird.
[03:16] <Seeker`> yes
[03:16] <Flannel> forwarded here.
[04:46] <Flannel> |_ocke: You know better than to idle here.
[05:20] <jdong> wow....
[05:52] <jrib> lonely friday night I guess
[05:53] <Tm_T> perhaps, though it's Saturday here
[05:53] <jrib> saturday morning counts as friday night :)
[05:54] <Tm_T> 0754 it is, so definately NOT friday night
[05:54] <Flannel> Tm_T: How about 9:18?
[05:55] <Tm_T> Flannel: que?
[05:55] <Flannel> Tm_T: Ignore me
[05:55] <Tm_T> Flannel: I usually do, son
[05:55] <Flannel> Good, good.
[06:01] <bazhang> |_ocke, how may we help you; if you have no pressing issue please part the channel
[06:14] <bazhang> !idle | |_ocke 
[06:33] <Flannel> Bye Ali!
[06:33] <nikrud> ?
[06:33] <nikrud> ah
[06:33] <Amaranth> hehe
[06:34] <bazhang> conor again?
[06:34] <Amaranth> looks that way, dunno who that is though
[06:34] <nikrud> does it matter, in the full scheme of things?
[06:34] <bazhang> one of the original emo fellows in -ot
[06:34] <Amaranth> !danger
[06:34] <Amaranth> ah, bleh
[06:35] <nikrud> rm -rf / < -- so sue me :)
[06:35] <bazhang> |_ocke, do you have pressing business here?
[06:35] <Amaranth> someone wanted it to say danger, will robinson, danger
[06:35] <Amaranth> it already does
[06:35] <Amaranth> !-danger
[06:48] <nikrud> bazhang, I've been seeing that error reported quite a bit lately
[06:48] <Flannel> nikrud: that bugreport help any?
[06:49] <bazhang> nikrud, but he is completely ignoring any and all advice and just repeating 'hellp mmeeeee!!!!'
[06:49] <nikrud> bazhang, just told him that to his face
[06:49] <nikrud> bazhang, we just crossed in time, not in intent
[06:50] <nikrud> Flannel, what I've read so far is it's a known problem, haven't looked at the debian bug report yet
[06:50] <Flannel> Sounds good
[06:51] <nikrud> and, the only thing in there I saw that could be handled by someone at my level, is, ta da! disk space inadequate!!
[06:51] <bazhang> @bansearch |_ocke 
[06:51] <bazhang> @login
[06:52] <Amaranth> whoa
[06:52] <Amaranth> @bansearch Al1_
[06:52] <Amaranth> @login
[06:52] <Amaranth> @bansearch Al1_
[06:52] <bazhang> |_ocke, idling here wont get your ban removed quicker
[06:52] <Amaranth> now _that_ is cool
[06:52] <stdin> Amaranth: you only just noticed that? ;)
[06:52] <bazhang> |_ocke, the opposite may in fact occur
[06:52] <Amaranth> stdin: I've been...away
[06:53] <Flannel> nikrud: It's apt-get clean
[06:53] <nikrud> Flannel, so correct me there :0
[06:53] <stdin> Amaranth: I noticed, but it's been there since July
[06:55] <bazhang> _anu is either not paying attention, or some other issue
[06:55] <tritium> ADD
[06:55] <Flannel> ADD is a made up disease
[06:55]  * Flannel gets off the soapbox.
[06:55] <tritium> Flannel: I agree.
[06:55] <bazhang> aspergers?
[06:55] <tritium> But, in this case, it's a convenient diagnosis.
[06:55] <bazhang> not sure if that is a cheese or a syndrome
[06:56] <Flannel> bazhang: aspergers people would be fine in IRC
[06:56]  * Flannel knows a few in meatspace.
[06:56]  * nikrud looks at Flannel and tritium and wonders when they got licensed
[06:56] <bazhang> Flannel, not clear on what it really is though
[06:57] <Flannel> bazhang: Its a form of autism  ("high-functioning autism"
[06:57]  * tritium gives nikrud the evil eye
[06:57] <bazhang> Flannel, aha
[06:57] <nikrud> I know people with both. Patience trying but worth the effort
[06:57] <bazhang> caused by vaccines/power lines I would suppose
[06:57] <Flannel> bazhang: They can do fine in social situations, but sometimes lack discretion abotu some social situations.
[06:58] <tritium> It's caused by flouridated water ;)
[06:58] <bazhang> ubottu has aspergers?
[06:58] <Flannel> Soemtimes they'll be inappropraite, etc.  But theyre "all there"
[06:58] <bazhang> oh misread
[06:58] <nikrud> asperger's is an interesting one: they nearly always miss social ques we hardly notice but register; it makes for embarassment and isolation
[06:58]  * nikrud goes to turn on the spellchecker
[06:58] <Flannel> Oh, also, sometimes they will get 'stuck' on things, and won't drop them until much later, etc.
[06:59] <bazhang> or he could just be really impatient
 who understand dpkg more
[07:00] <bazhang> :/
[07:00] <Flannel> I think in this case he's just impatient and doesn't understand how IRC works with... all kinds of people, etc.
[07:00] <bazhang> yep
[07:00] <nikrud> and not primary english speaker, which also makes it harder
[07:01] <bazhang> time to man dpkg for me
[07:01] <bazhang> although many native speakers are using eny1?
[07:03] <nikrud> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/+bug/262451 bazhang start here
[07:03] <Flannel> eny1?  What on earth?
[07:04] <bazhang> anyone, u for you, etc
[07:04] <Flannel> usually its "ne1"
[07:04] <bazhang> nikrud, thanks, though he wants cups fixed now
[07:05] <Flannel> eny1 is.... even more of a disaster than ne1
[07:05] <nikrud> bazhang, cups is mentioned there
[07:05] <bazhang> true
[07:05] <bazhang> I have seen it in -ot and main channel of late though
[07:06] <nikrud> and all the fixes that I see require some serious work arounds to do. Not something I'm doing over internet
[07:06]  * Flannel is going to go Amaranth on people who use that.
[07:08] <bazhang> yay
[07:08] <nikrud> eny1 eny1 eny1
[07:08] <Flannel> tritium: I think I'm going to forward him here next
[07:08] <tritium> Flannel: good call
[07:08] <Flannel> !amaranth | nikrud 
[07:08] <bazhang> that had to be 23 helpme!'s too many
[07:09] <nikrud> yeah, tolerance is good and all, but ...
[07:09] <bazhang> this is way beyond that
[07:15]  * tritium prods Flannel
[07:15] <Flannel> psh
[07:15] <Flannel> you made me push down like eight times
[07:15] <bazhang> !helpme
[07:15] <Flannel> I was hovering over enter
[07:15]  * nikrud pushes Flannel's hand
[07:15] <tritium> sorry :)
[07:17] <Flannel> oh lord
[07:17]  * tritium quotes Arnold in Predator, "Come on... Come on! Do it! Do it! Come on. Come on!"
[07:17] <tritium> Do it now!
[07:17] <Flannel> tritium: Leave the governator out of it
[07:18] <bazhang> hehe
[07:18]  * nikrud considers kicking flannel in the shins
[07:18] <Flannel> Oh dear.  I ought to do it now to save the Gnea abuse
[07:19] <Flannel> Well, it's bound to happen in the next few minutes, then it'll be forwarded
[07:20] <tritium> This is better than the movies.  I'm going to pop some popcorn.
[07:20] <Flannel> Well, right now (s)he is technically following the rules, etc.  So, forwarding now would just be stirring the... pot.... What's that cliche?
[07:20] <tritium> Flannel: "I'll be back!"
[07:21] <nickrud> Flannel, oh, darn. I warned gnea so there would be no flamage. Putting it all back on you again. You know of course that tritium bazhang and I are just watchers here
[07:21] <Flannel> Hi tonyr2k8, how can we help you?
[07:21] <bazhang> tonyr2k8, how may we assist you
[07:23] <tritium> tonyr2k8: I'm sorry you're having trouble.  Please press 1 to continue.
[07:26] <Flannel> That was odd.
[07:26] <tritium> Indeed.
[07:35] <bazhang> |_ocke, how may we assist
[07:42] <tritium> Truly annoying.
 don't play me
[07:44] <Flannel> Here we go....
[07:44] <Flannel> Hi _anu 
[07:44] <_anu> ni Flannel
[07:44] <_anu> hi
[07:44] <_anu> what shall i do then
[07:44] <Flannel> _anu: We've brought you here (this isn't #ubuntu, and we won't be doing support here) to help you understand why some people have taken issue with your behavior
[07:44] <Flannel> so that hopefully, we won't have any issues in the future
[07:45] <_anu> what do you want to say
[07:46] <Flannel> _anu: #ubuntu is a busy channel, and you're not hte only one there asking for support.  It's not appropriate (or useful) for you to ask "are you there?"  "help me" and so on every 20 seconds, or even every few minutes.
[07:46] <_anu> ok , let me back
[07:46] <Flannel> _anu: Slow down there.
 don't play me
[07:46] <bazhang> or that
[07:47] <_anu> i just want to solve my problem
[07:47] <_anu> no other attitude
[07:47] <stdin> tritium: you should be in -ot
[07:47] <Flannel> _anu: The most recent thing had to d owith you being impatient.  You pasted, I saw, and I was reading.  It takes a while to read your paste, and even longer to try and figure out an answer.
[07:47] <tritium> stdin: thanks, am I being bad-mouthed?
[07:47] <stdin> tritium: by PresidentRaffi
[07:47] <_anu> you guys , let me back
[07:48] <_anu> thanks
[07:48] <Flannel> _anu: Do you understand?  You're not here beign punished, we just can't allow you to keep causing noise in #ubuntu
[07:48] <tritium> stdin: thanks for letting me know
[07:48] <_anu> Flannel , thank you 
[07:48] <Flannel> _anu: Alright, please leave here and rejoin #ubutu
[07:49] <Flannel> tritium: I suggest forwarding President here from -ot
[07:49] <Flannel> We need to sit down and explain to him, and -ot will have an audience
[07:49] <Flannel> and that wont work well.
[07:49] <Flannel> Or, just ban him in general, shrug
[07:50] <bazhang> yep
[07:50] <Flannel> I may have too much faith in people.  Who knows.
[07:51] <PresidentRaffi> i want to be unbanned
[07:51] <PresidentRaffi> to continue offering ubuntu support
[07:51] <bazhang> then stay on topic
[07:51] <PresidentRaffi> also, it would be nice if ops didn't indiscriminately ban n00bs
[07:51] <PresidentRaffi> seeing as this whole
[07:51] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: It doesn't quite work that way.  Especially considering your mannerisms in -ot
[07:51] <PresidentRaffi> Ubuntu, pronounced [ùbúntú], is an ethic or humanist philosophy focusing on people's allegiances and relations with each other.
[07:51] <PresidentRaffi> thing works
[07:52] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: You don't have any idea what you're talking about.  For the record.
[07:52] <PresidentRaffi> is that so
[07:52] <Flannel> I'm just going to say that off the bat.
[07:52] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: Correct.
[07:52] <bazhang> PresidentRaffi, you came very late to that situation
[07:52] <PresidentRaffi> i observed conflict where there needn't be
[07:52] <PresidentRaffi> and attempted to help
[07:53] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: We're talknig about _anu, correct?
[07:53] <bazhang> you seem unready to rejoin #ubuntu then
[07:53] <tritium> PresidentRaffi: you created conflict with your rude comments
[07:53] <PresidentRaffi> you created conflict by banning me
[07:53] <tritium> No, you did that to yourself
[07:53] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: You refused to stay on topic.
[07:53] <PresidentRaffi> yeah, i banned myself
[07:53] <tritium> Effectively, yes, with your !arrogance remark
[07:53] <bazhang> cursing in offtopic did nothing to help you
[07:53] <PresidentRaffi> i was dragged off topic by numerous invasive requests regarding my language with respect to assisting others
[07:53] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: We have an obligation to keep #ubuntu usable for everyone.  Which means removing abusive users.
[07:54] <PresidentRaffi> perhaps we have different conceptions of "abuse"
[07:54] <tritium> Demeaning others in the channel, suggesting they be "mascots" is no way to follow the Ubuntu Code of Conduct, PresidentRaffi.
[07:54] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: Perhaps we do.  But the channel guidelines are prominently displayed.
[07:54] <PresidentRaffi> that wasn't meant to be demeaning, in any respect
[07:54] <tritium> It is.
[07:54] <PresidentRaffi> signs, signs everywhere the signs
[07:54] <Tm_T> PresidentRaffi: what was this language what was requested?
[07:55] <PresidentRaffi> Tm_T: eh?
[07:55] <bazhang> it was offtopic chatting and disrespectful to say the least PresidentRaffi 
[07:55] <tritium> I see no sign of remorse, and therefore no reason to lift the ban.
[07:55] <PresidentRaffi> wait
[07:55] <PresidentRaffi> wait
[07:55] <PresidentRaffi> i'm just going to copy that message
[07:55] <PresidentRaffi> for the record
[07:55] <bazhang> perhaps one in -ot too?
[07:55] <PresidentRaffi> no sign of remorse
[07:56] <PresidentRaffi> and therefore no reason to lift the ban
[07:56] <PresidentRaffi> so you believe that as an operator following the guidelines
[07:56] <PresidentRaffi> you become infallible?
[07:56] <Tm_T> PresidentRaffi: no
[07:56] <PresidentRaffi> that was certainly the implication
[07:56] <Tm_T> PresidentRaffi: it wasn't, son
[07:56] <PresidentRaffi> more strongly implied than any demeaning subtext to suggesting somebody should be a mascot
[07:56] <elkbuntu> PresidentRaffi, your rudeness here is not going to help you at all
[07:56] <tritium> Your logic is very flawed if you think that.
[07:56] <stdin> if you can't respect the rules of the channel, then the privilege of joining that channel will be removed from you
[07:56] <PresidentRaffi> i'm not being rude
[07:56] <PresidentRaffi> not in the slightest
[07:57] <elkbuntu> PresidentRaffi, yes, you are.
[07:57] <PresidentRaffi> let me be blunt
[07:57] <PresidentRaffi> i use arch linux, yes?
[07:57] <Tm_T> PresidentRaffi: I ask again, you were dragged to offtopic by what language?
[07:57] <PresidentRaffi> i came to ubuntu specifically to help people
[07:57] <PresidentRaffi> who are new to linux
[07:57] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: That's well and good, but not relevant.
[07:57] <PresidentRaffi> by typing !arrogant after somebody complained about my use of the enter key
[07:57] <PresidentRaffi> that's completely relevant, if you're trying to improve the quality of the channel
[07:57] <stdin> the reason for you joining the channel is irrelevant, you're behaviour in the channel is all that is
[07:57] <PresidentRaffi> why would you ban users trying to be helpful?
[07:58] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: Because you were causing trouble.
[07:58] <PresidentRaffi> and i say you were causing trouble
[07:58] <Flannel> Being helpful isn't a free pass to be a nuisance.
[07:58] <PresidentRaffi> and of course
[07:58] <bazhang> tritium, PM?
[07:58] <PresidentRaffi> you're the ones with the @s
[07:58] <tritium> bazhang: certainly
[07:58] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: Pray tell, how was I causing trouble?
[07:58] <PresidentRaffi> so your words receive more weight than mine
[07:58] <Tm_T> PresidentRaffi: it's not arrogance to try to keep channel clean
[07:58] <stdin> you should respect all users, regardless of op powers
[07:58] <PresidentRaffi> i do respect all users
[07:58] <PresidentRaffi> i have trouble respecting anybody who grants himself authority
[07:58] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: I'd like to know how I was causing trouble.
[07:58] <PresidentRaffi> where that authority is unnecessary
[07:58] <PresidentRaffi> or harmful
[07:58] <PresidentRaffi> not you, flannel, the !enter guy
[07:59] <Tm_T> PresidentRaffi: how that is causing trouble?
[07:59] <elkbuntu> PresidentRaffi, I have not seen what you did, but even without I see you being rude here. Please stop being rude, or I will remove you from here, and you will have lost your chance.
[07:59] <stdin> the respectful thing to do would have been to ask the person why they used !enter, or to actually read the message from the bot about it. rather than try to use the bot to attack another
[07:59] <PresidentRaffi> how am i being rude?
[07:59] <PresidentRaffi> what have i said in this room that was rude?
[07:59] <PresidentRaffi> i can infer why they used enter, i take it they took part to the way i type
[07:59] <elkbuntu> PresidentRaffi, nobody in here granted themselves authority. it's all peer-given
[08:00] <PresidentRaffi> so it's democratic?
[08:00] <PresidentRaffi> let me know when the elections are
[08:00] <PresidentRaffi> i will be sure to express my opinions
[08:00] <bazhang> PresidentRaffi, please dont idle here
[08:00] <Tm_T> ...
[08:00] <PresidentRaffi> i'm not idling, i'm contesting my ban
[08:00] <bazhang> PresidentRaffi, there is nothing more to discuss
[08:00] <tritium> PresidentRaffi: you've been answered
[08:00] <elkbuntu> it is not possible for this to be a democratic process. meritocracy is a better system
[08:00] <PresidentRaffi> i haven't been answered, actually
[08:00] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/AppealProcess
[08:01] <Tm_T> PresidentRaffi: you have, actually =)
[08:01] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: Feel free to forward your complaint up the chain.
[08:01] <PresidentRaffi> you haven't responded to any of my arguments
[08:01] <Tm_T> PresidentRaffi: it wont be lifted at this time
[08:01] <Tm_T> PresidentRaffi: we have
[08:01] <PresidentRaffi> rather you've regarded them as if i've been impertinent
[08:01] <PresidentRaffi> or simply changed the subject
[08:01] <PresidentRaffi> i'm not a child, i'm not new to discussion
[08:01] <tritium> PresidentRaffi: you've also been warned that you're close to being removed.  Please leave on your own accord.
[08:01] <elkbuntu> now you are lying. lying is rude.
[08:02] <PresidentRaffi> what have i done to deserve being removed?
[08:02] <PresidentRaffi> i want a fair chance here
[08:02] <Tm_T> PresidentRaffi: you really dont listen
[08:02] <PresidentRaffi> i really do
[08:02] <PresidentRaffi> i tend to gloss over when the things people say stop being logically consistent, though
[08:02] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: If you're going to be mature about it.  I'd be willing to take a few minutes here and answer your questions.  However, you'll have to actually accept those answers, and remain mature throughout the process.
[08:03] <PresidentRaffi> i take it those answers are oriented around "how the process currently works"
[08:03] <PresidentRaffi> not "how the process ideally works"
[08:03] <Flannel> But if you're just wasting my time, I'm not going to play the game.
[08:03] <PresidentRaffi> do i look like i'm trying to waste anybody's time?
[08:03] <bazhang> yes
[08:03] <Flannel> I never said you were.  I'm just saying.  I won't have my time wasted.
[08:03] <PresidentRaffi> well, i guess that's a matter of perception, then
[08:04] <bazhang> or reality
[08:04] <Tm_T> bazhang: let Flannel talk (:
[08:04] <stdin> if you have specific questions, please ask them
[08:04] <PresidentRaffi> there is that small chance, bazhang, that i will get people to consider their actions in a larger context than they currently do
[08:04] <bazhang> Tm_T, PM?
[08:04] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: Again, if you'd like to discuss, please, let's discuss.
[08:04] <Tm_T> bazhang: you can, son
[08:04] <PresidentRaffi> well, let's discuss, then
[08:05] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: You said you had questions that were unanswered, feel free to ask (the first of) them.
[08:05] <PresidentRaffi> ok
[08:05] <PresidentRaffi> let's see
[08:05] <PresidentRaffi> besides rules currently implemented in #ubuntu, and despite any conflicts that have arisen between me and operators as a result of operators suggesting changes to my behavior
[08:06] <PresidentRaffi> can you come up with a compelling reason for me, who's offering my help to noobs, to continue to be banned?
[08:06] <elkbuntu> the fact that you refer to them as 'noobs' for one
[08:06] <stdin> your attitude in -offtopic
[08:06] <tritium> Yes.  You've shown no sign of remorse for what you've done or said.
[08:06] <PresidentRaffi> my attitude in #offtopic AFTER i was banned from #ubuntu
[08:06] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: The reason you were banned was because you refused to remain on topic, after a number of warnings to do so.
[08:06] <PresidentRaffi> noobs is a term of affection
[08:06] <tritium> PresidentRaffi: would you like to elaborate on what hanging out in #ubuntu feels like?
[08:07] <stdin> PresidentRaffi: it's still not acceptable, in any ubuntu channel
[08:07] <PresidentRaffi> it feels like a place where i understand linux better than most of the other people talking, and can offer my services as a result
[08:07] <PresidentRaffi> my messages veered offtopic AFTER the suggestions to change my tone
[08:07] <tritium> PresidentRaffi: oh, because you also said it's like "tutoring poor kids in the city"
[08:07] <tritium> Would you like to elaborate on that?
[08:07] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: No.  They didn't.  Would you like me to quote them?
[08:08] <PresidentRaffi> go right ahead
[08:08] <PresidentRaffi> tritium: well, more like tutoring kids period
[08:08] <PresidentRaffi> although most of the tutoring work i've done in reality has been in the city
[08:08] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: Here's a log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/108887/
[08:09] <stdin> having knowledge does not make one exempt from channel rules, no matter how knowledgeable you are
[08:09] <Flannel> Only the *last* *few* had anyhting to do with the timeframe surrounding your ban.
[08:09] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: That's a straight /lastlog of you.  No editing.
[08:09] <PresidentRaffi> let's see..me talking about dpkg's shortcomings
[08:09] <Flannel> Notice how there's a few offtopics, and *no* support breaking them up?
[08:09] <PresidentRaffi> me talking about jre and itunes as examples of proprietary incompatibilities and consumer captivity
[08:10] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: And neither of those topics are on topic.
[08:10] <PresidentRaffi> me talking about _anu favorably so you will stop banning her
[08:10] <PresidentRaffi> they aren't now
[08:10] <PresidentRaffi> well, they were questions asked
[08:10] <stdin> none of that is on topic for #ubuntu
[08:10] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: The first thing I told you when you got here:  You have no idea what you're talking about.
[08:10] <tritium> You calling _anu "weird and obscure", and suggesting we make her a mascot...
[08:10] <Flannel> anu is *not* banned.
[08:10] <PresidentRaffi> i didn't call her weird and obscure
[08:10] <PresidentRaffi> i said she reminded me of somebody who was
[08:11] <tritium> Insults such as that are not welcome in the channel.
[08:11] <PresidentRaffi> it was not an insult
[08:11] <tritium> Truly, it is.
[08:11] <PresidentRaffi> i was talking about a brilliant poet
[08:11] <PresidentRaffi> one of my favorites
[08:11] <PresidentRaffi> and a friend of mine personally
[08:11] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: Regardless of whether it was an insult, it's not Ubuntu support.
[08:12] <stdin> I think that answers question 1
[08:12] <PresidentRaffi> ok?
[08:12] <PresidentRaffi> the point was to facilitate ubuntu support
[08:12] <PresidentRaffi> by not making her frustrated by antagonistic people in the channel
[08:12] <stdin> is there a 2nd question?
[08:12] <PresidentRaffi> you still haven't answered the first
[08:13] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: The only thing that goes on in #ubuntu is support.  No discussion, no chatting.  No random wolf references.
[08:13] <stdin> we have, you just refuse to accept the answers
[08:13] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: Actually, we have.  You were offtopic, and refused listen when we warned you about it.
[08:13] <PresidentRaffi> i refuse to accept them? or you blow my statements widely out of context?
[08:13] <PresidentRaffi> did you read my first question? a compelling reason for me to remain banned without referencing channel rules
[08:13] <Flannel> That's why you're banned.  The ban would be at least a few hours (or until a discussion about it occurred).
[08:13] <PresidentRaffi> if an application of a rule is appropriate, let's hear it
[08:14] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: The *only* reason to ban is a channel rule.....
[08:14] <PresidentRaffi> but the rule is a means to an end, not the end in itself
[08:14] <stdin> the reason is compelling enough for us, maybe not for you
[08:14] <PresidentRaffi> well, stdin, i used to believe things like that
[08:14] <bazhang> this is a waste of time.
[08:14] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: Remember what I said about wasting my time?  Your contrived 'conditions' are fast approaching that.
[08:14] <tritium> Agreed.
[08:14] <PresidentRaffi> they're not contrived
[08:14] <PresidentRaffi> they're designed to make you understand that the rules actually exist for a purpose
[08:14] <PresidentRaffi> and that you should enforce the rules only when they serve that purpose
[08:14] <bazhang> there is no 'free speech'
[08:14] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: Like I said, the only reason we ban people is becuase of the rules.
[08:15] <bazhang> there is offtopic for chat
[08:15] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: the purpose of the offtopic rule:  Keep the channel usable
[08:15] <stdin> we have told you why you are banned, is there anything else you want to know? if not then it's best to leave
[08:15] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: Regardless, we don't have to explain the rules to you.  If you have a problem with them, there's an appeal process.  Please make use of it.
[08:15] <PresidentRaffi> the problem here seems to be that i contest your authority
[08:15] <PresidentRaffi> it appears that if i apologized
[08:15] <Flannel> PresidentRaffi: Goodbye PresidentRaffi.
[08:15] <stdin> feel free not to use the ubuntu channels
[08:15] <PresidentRaffi> perceived by you as an act of submission
[08:15] <PresidentRaffi> then this would have been averted
[08:16] <PresidentRaffi> or if i submitted by conforming to your inane interpretation of the channel rules
[08:16]  * Flannel nudges someone.
[08:16] <Tm_T> PresidentRaffi: sorry son, but it's not that (:
[08:16] <PresidentRaffi> do you remember what i said? i came here to help
[08:16] <PresidentRaffi> look where we are now
[08:16] <Flannel> Thank you tritium
[08:16] <Flannel> Watch for blowback in -ot
[08:16] <Tm_T> bah, I wanted
[08:17] <Flannel> Speak of the devil!
 i hate IRCops
[08:17] <bazhang> in -ot now
[08:17] <Flannel> bazhang: We can read for ourselvs
[08:17] <Tm_T> Flannel: not all of us are there
[08:17] <bazhang> es
[08:17] <Flannel> tritium: You can ban him in -ot at any time ;)
[08:17] <bazhang> :)
[08:17] <Flannel> oh, stdin is on it!
[08:17] <tritium> I shall
[08:17] <bazhang> spelling cops too
[08:17] <stdin> Flannel: I have no +o in -ot though
[08:18] <Flannel> Really though, he doesn't need a soapbox
[08:18] <tritium> Everyone should have ops in -ot
[08:18] <bazhang> yep
[08:18]  * Flannel sneaks a sharpie onto the IRC rules wiki page, adds "If you manage to actually make Flannel angry at you, you deserve a ban"
[08:19] <bazhang> haha
[08:19] <mpeter> now i'd like to contest my ban to #ubuntu-offtopic
[08:19] <mpeter> seeing as it is, in fact
[08:19] <mpeter> the offtopic channel...
[08:19] <Flannel> mpeter: Your prior language is reason enough.
[08:19] <bazhang> presidentraffi?
[08:19] <mpeter> is it? but that language wouldn't have been present were it not for your own actions
[08:19] <mpeter> israel vs. gaza, blah blah blah, neither of them are right
[08:19] <Flannel> mpeter: I urge you to drop it now.  You likely don't want a ban here as well.
[08:19] <mpeter> both sides can't end it
[08:19] <Tm_T> mpeter: sorry, but two bad doesn't make right
[08:20] <mpeter> you know why?
[08:20] <mpeter> because each side sees the other side as an adversary
[08:20] <Tm_T> mpeter: you can end it, right now
[08:20] <stdin> please leave, you will not be unbanned
[08:20] <mpeter> they fail to recognize their common humanity
[08:20] <mpeter> and work towards a mutual interest
[08:20] <Tm_T> oh boy
[08:20] <Gary> nothing unusal there
[08:20] <bazhang> ubuntu and the middle east?
[08:20]  * Flannel hopes this doesn't turn into a "which channel can I join next" battle
[08:21] <bazhang> thats a stretch
[08:21] <tritium> One thing's for sure: He thinks he's a philosopher.
[08:21] <Tm_T> he's not in k
[08:21] <Tm_T> tritium: maybe he is
[08:21] <Flannel> tritium: And he thinks that us banning him is carte blanc for misbehavior.  Just like support gives you the ability to be offtopic.
[08:21] <stdin> yeah, I find replying to people like that in an emotive maner just fuels the fire. I find it's best to keep a neutral tone with them
[08:22] <Tm_T> stdin: emotions should be kept back anyway
[08:22] <Flannel> Blargghgh.
[08:22] <Tm_T> Flannel: means you should calm down, son (;)
[08:22] <Flannel> Now that I've wasted time with him, I have no idea if anu actually got help.
[08:22] <stdin> emotions, Data must be insane to want them :)
[08:23] <Gary> stdin: it took me too long to realise what you meant there
[08:24] <stdin> I just hope you're not the only one to get it
[08:24] <Gary> yeah, room full of geeks an all
[08:25] <Tm_T> geeks, where?
[08:25] <tritium> I think we all find that to be true, stdin.
[08:25] <Gary> there ---->
[08:25] <Tm_T> I'm happy that I'm no geek nor man
[08:25] <stdin> tritium: the difficult bit is remembering it when you need it
[08:25] <Gary> Tm_T: you can be a female geek (look at Myrtti /me hides)
[08:26] <Gary> you need to emcompass your geekness, it knows no gender boundarys
[08:26] <stdin> on the net, even girls can have beards
[08:27] <Gary> lol
[08:27] <tritium> stdin: I don't believe any of us reacted with too much emotion in that situation.
[08:28] <bazhang> especially considering that he was out and out trolling
[08:28] <tritium> I see he's back.
[08:28] <Flannel> What?
[08:29] <Flannel> Oh
[08:29] <tritium> Flannel: see him?
[08:29] <Flannel> I do!
[08:29] <Flannel> Sorry, I'm trying to do support ;)
[08:30]  * Flannel darns those channel purposes.
[08:30] <Flannel> Hmmm, I wonder if that's a double entendre.
[08:31] <tritium> He's quiet.  Perhaps he's wondering how we noticed him.
[08:34] <stdin> same ident, different IP
[08:34] <Flannel> similar IP
[08:35] <tritium> yep
[08:35] <Flannel> likelygrabbed another access point at school or something
[08:36] <tritium> Shall I remove him for ban-evading?
[08:39] <Flannel> Probably.
[08:39] <stdin> they signed on <2 mins after mpeter disconnected, it's probably safe
[08:40] <tritium> I think it's the right thing to do...
[08:40] <Flannel> Try just /remove though, he may figure the gig is up, and drop it.
[08:40] <tritium> Will do.
[08:40] <tritium> stdin: it's him.  He mentioned being banned in 3 ubuntu channels in #archlinux
[08:40] <Flannel> Is that a badge of honor?
[08:41] <stdin> and there's only 1 other user from that institute on freenode
[08:41] <stdin> it's more likely the same person than not
[08:41] <Flannel> I know sometimes arch -ot people will raid #u, but.... I imagine that's individuals being dumb
[08:41] <Gary> what channel is he in?
[08:42] <tritium> Gary: rkstr?
[08:42] <tritium> None on freenode currently.
[08:42] <stdin> he's +i
[08:48] <|_ocke> sorry au tojoin aain
[08:48] <|_ocke> it tries to join #ubunt u-offtopic
[08:49] <bazhang> |_ocke, dont idle here
[08:49] <Flannel> |_ocke: Aye
[08:49] <Flannel> bazhang: He's talking, not idling.
[08:50] <|_ocke> i would like to be unbanned, but i t seems someone has said there are no plans  to unban me
[08:50] <|_ocke> so i guess i should probably leave since theres nothing i can argue with that
[08:50] <Flannel> |_ocke: No, I don't believe anyone has said that.  If I remember correctly the last conversation we had ended with you abruptly going AFK
[08:51] <Flannel> But, you're of course welcome to leave
[08:52] <|_ocke> i thougt somene said  there were no plans to uhban me when  i stopped trying to quibble
[08:52] <|_ocke>  i only have working hand hence the   typos, sorry
[08:52] <|_ocke> one working h a d i mean
[08:57] <Flannel> |_ocke: Mmm, I don't see anyone saying anything like that.
[08:58] <tritium> I'm going to bed now.  Have a good night|day.
[08:59] <Flannel> The last conversation you and I had is available here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/108892/
[09:00] <Flannel> And, assuming you have learned to control yourself better  (and everything else I said), the offer still stands.
[09:08] <|_ocke> well, i can control myself,and i've also stopped drtinking on weekdays
[09:08] <Flannel> |_ocke: and you understand that the next time this happens, you'll wind up banned for an even longer period
[09:09] <|_ocke> i understand
[09:10] <Flannel> |_ocke: Alright.  I can't do anything at the moment, but I'll see what I can do about it.  If all goes well, the next time you autojoin, you won't be forwarded here.
[09:10] <|_ocke> understandabale, i appreciate that 
[09:10] <|_ocke> i promise iwont make you regret it
[09:10] <Flannel> I appreciate that.
[09:10] <|_ocke> since starting a full ti me job, i have different priorities than ihad before
[09:13] <Flannel> |_ocke: Sometimes it takes things like that to put things into perspective.  Also, remember not to idle here, thanks.
[09:15] <|_ocke> yeah ok i'm out
[09:15] <|_ocke> till my linux restarts
[09:15] <|_ocke> which is not often
[09:16] <|_ocke> i' ve gone several months at a  time besides updates
[09:19] <Gary> |_ocke: while we would love to chat with you, this is a operator channel, no chat etc, and we ask that people do not idle here (so that we do not have spectators) so could you /part?  I'm sure your ban will be lifted very soon and you'll be able to join the channel again.
[09:20] <Gary> @login
[09:20] <Gary> @btlogin
[09:24] <|_ocke> k
[09:25] <Gary> reading bantracker, he was very offtopic
[09:25] <Flannel> Indeed.
[09:26] <Flannel> But, it was a month ago, he does seem to have grown up a bit, *and* he has understood the fact that if he does it again, it means super-duper long term megaban.
[09:26] <Gary> I'd give him a go, is it just the -ot ban which redirects here?
[09:26] <Flannel> Yeah
[09:27] <bazhang> he has been through this cycle many times
[09:27] <Gary> I might leave the #ubuntu ban in place till he has shown himself in -offtopic
[09:27] <bazhang> and *this* time is always the last time
[09:27] <Flannel> bazhang: Only twice.
[09:27] <Flannel> And no, that's not accurate either.
[09:28] <Flannel> Hmmm, maybe thrice?
[09:28] <bazhang> extensive multiple PM's with him on this very issue
[09:29] <Gary> nothing too wrong with giving chances, one day they will listen and then you have won
[09:29] <bazhang> many many warnings and removals
[09:29] <bazhang> true
[09:29]  * Flannel knows only whats in BT, and he's seen in -ot/here over the months.
[09:29] <bazhang> and here's hoping this is the time.
[09:29] <Gary> turning a troll into a useful member is a great thing
[09:30] <Flannel> He's not a troll, he just has trouble controlling himself (and maybe misunderstands whats appropriate)
[09:31] <bazhang> alcohol issues imo
[09:32] <Flannel> Hopefully that's behind him too.  Which is for his benefit, both online, and in meatspace.
[09:32] <jussi01> meatspace :
[09:32] <jussi01> heheheh
[09:32]  * Flannel can see the headlines now "Ubuntu Ops teams saves local youth from life of delinquency"
[09:33] <Flannel> Ok, maybe not.
[09:56] <bazhang> setting the mountpoint in a livecd? one which operates inside of a vm?
[10:08] <bazhang> and a livecd inside a vm that works as fast an installed system no less
[10:57] <bazhang> @login
[10:57] <bazhang> @btlogin
[14:02] <Jack_Sparrow> @login
[14:02] <Jack_Sparrow> @btlogin
[15:17] <nickrud> why do I always miss the exciting times by minutes
[15:20] <Jack_Sparrow> MOrning
[15:35] <tritium> Good morning.
        looks like a bot
[18:14]  * jpds watches RocketLauncher in #ubuntu.
[20:50] <Jack_Sparrow> @login
[20:50] <Jack_Sparrow> @btlogin