[00:49] <_neversfelde> claydoh: some users started a translation of my german how to [00:50] <_neversfelde> I'll post you the link, once there is enough translated [00:50] <_neversfelde> n8 :) [00:50] cool is it based on the client-core concept? [00:50] <_neversfelde> yes [00:50] or just the standalone mode [00:51] <_neversfelde> it is client core and I think I can help to improve an english version [00:51] good, though I am working on a simple one for the standalone mode [00:51] <_neversfelde> claydoh: did you publish it somewhere? [00:51] for those of us easily confused or not geeky enough :) [00:51] <_neversfelde> hehe [00:52] no, still typing out a rough text [00:52] and have a bunch of screenshots [00:52] \ [00:52] would be done, but went to newegg and went shopping :) [00:52] <_neversfelde> if I can help you, tell me [00:52] then had to cook dinner [00:53] and I am still sick, and the wife is ill too :( [00:53] so even typing is not fun [00:54] <_neversfelde> here too, my girlfriend is sick [01:28] wow openoffice locks up the desktop in Jaunty [01:28] and apparently in kde4.2 ppa in intrepid [01:54] * ScottK hugs his kde 4.1.4.... [02:00] 4.2 rawks [02:00] maybe we should remove openoffice.org-kde then? [02:01] and just how far along is Kooffice :O) [02:01] oops koffice [02:03] openoffice.org-kde is still KDE3. [02:03] So yeah .... [02:10] does it actually use kde3, or is it just a 'theme'? I was never clear on that [02:12] "This package contains the KDE plugin for drawing OOo's widgets with KDE/Qt, a KDEish File Picker when running under KDE" [02:12] ahh [02:12] can't draw widgets then [02:13] I haven't looked but there's apparently a non-working KDE4 port. [03:15] I found that if you just enable oo.o's native file picker, you can keep the openoffice.org-kde package, and its better looks :) [03:23] If someone were to package http://blog.chatonka.com/2009/01/more-on-rtm-plasmoid/ I'd promise to review it. [03:24] I know samrog, who has a ppa opf plasmoid, he'll probably do it :) [03:26] ok what exactly is rtm? I don't think i get it [03:27] * claydoh needs to learn cmake so he can use that for building his kmymoney2 packages [03:28] * claydoh also is eager for kmm2's devs to port to kde4 [03:28] Remember the milk. [03:29] It's a plasmoid to help you keep track of what you have to do. [03:29] I could use that. [03:30] ahh [03:30] I was thinking it was more complex than that [03:30] dunno why [03:31] https://edge.launchpad.net/~samrog131/+archive/ppa [03:31] he's a plasmoid-ho :) [03:32] Can you talk him into throwing that stuff at REVU? [03:32] We want as much plasmoid as we can get in this release. [03:34] beast2 [03:34] beastly* [03:35] https://edge.launchpad.net/~samrog131 [03:36] I have emailed him [03:36] Excellent. === akonadi is now known as nihui [05:09] * ScottK dons his peril sensitive sunglasses and wields quilt. === nihui is now known as akonadi === akonadi is now known as nihui [10:30] ohhhh yea [10:31] please someone package the rememberthemilk plasmoid [10:31] that would be sooo useful for me [10:31] I promise cookies and hugs to whoever packages and reviews it [10:38] Will kde 4.1.4 move from intrepid-proposed to intrepid-backports eventually? [10:42] Nightrose: can't find it on kde-look? [10:42] neversfelde: not there yet - just in playground in svn [10:42] see planet [10:43] hunger: afaik it is planned to be moved to intrepid-updates [10:43] ah ok, I will try it [10:43] cool :) [10:43] ScottK: ^ [10:44] * Nightrose vanishes for some sport [10:45] a|wen: I guess I need to wait then:-( [10:46] If only jaunty wasn't that broken... then I could just upgrade to that:-) [10:46] hunger: if you want, you can add -proposed to your sources.list and help test that the packages are good [10:47] a|wen: I don't want to do that. [10:47] a|wen: I am running jaunty as a thing to report bugs against... but I do need one computer that actually works mostly. [10:48] hunger: i can fully understand that ... always have a computer kept somewhat clean [10:49] a|wen: I wouldn't mind testing the kde packages, but there is a new kernel and stuff in -proposed that I do not want to test. [10:51] hunger: yeah; it is not that easy just upgrading the kde-packages and not the rest from -proposed [10:52] Hmmm... installing ubuntu-desktop without effecting my kde installation no longer seems possible:-( [10:53] ubuntu-desktop depends on all the stuff kubuntu-desktop only recommends and that I do not like:-) [11:32] does anyone understand bug 320999 properly? [11:32] Launchpad bug 320999 in kdepim "mailtransports has wrong owner." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/320999 [11:32] * apachelogger needs to guess mostly [11:37] happy new year kubuntuorts :) (chinese new year) [11:39] freeflying: happy chinese new year to you to :) [11:40] apachelogger: thanks [11:40] :) [11:41] * freeflying seems a bit over drunk :) [11:42] happy new year freeflying [11:43] * a|wen was in chinatown today ... but there were no new year there until tomorrow :( [11:43] a|wen: hope you can enjoy the traditional of chinese :) [11:44] freeflying: i will ... lots of chinese at my uni (and supposedly fireworks in the next days) [11:46] a|wen: so do our side here :) [11:46] :) [11:54] Arby: Uploading kdelibs_3.5.10.dfsg.1-1ubuntu8_source.changes: done. [11:54] apachelogger: for the aRts changes? [11:55] aye [11:55] if I removed the api stuff properly it should also build a lot faster [11:56] apachelogger: did you see my ping about a couple of packages last night? [11:56] nope [11:56] apachelogger: ping? [11:56] Arby: yes [11:56] [21:51] looking at arts stuff libsdl1.2debian-arts looks pretty useless without arts [11:56] [21:51] should it be marked for removal from the archive? [11:56] [21:52] likewise liballegro4.2-plugin-arts [11:56] throw them away [11:56] ok I can mark it on the wiki but who do I need to ask to do it? [11:56] they only contain arts support, so it's save to drop them [11:56] you? [11:57] Arby: you need to file a package removal request (explained somewhere in the wiki) [11:57] then find a sponsor who accepts the request and subscribes the archive admins [11:57] Arby: also ... for thos packages and rdeps need to be resolved as well [11:57] * Arby starts digging in wiki [11:58] I think libsdl for example got a metapackage for audio backends IIRC [12:02] hello to everybody, my name is Giovanni Masucci and I'd like to help in the testing process to jaunty, nice to meet you all :) [12:04] gmasucci: welcome you here :) [12:06] Thank you freeflying. :) I've just installed kubuntu jaunty and I've found an issue with libsoprano-dev and soprano-daemon packages. Appearently there is a file , org.soprano.Model.xml, that is in both packages and causes a conflict that makes apt eat children. :) If you are already aware of this please ignore my message :) [12:07] gmasucci: did you upgrade to the latest? [12:08] yes [12:09] gmasucci: I couldn't reproduce it here now :) [12:10] gmasucci: I did maybe 1 day ago :) [12:10] the latest libsoprano-dev replaces soprano-daemon so it shouldn't be a problem now [12:10] glad to hear, maybe the mirror has to update itself [13:01] sigh... [13:03] I have no idea on how to set up that calender folder crap in kontact. should we not have a pre set up one done already? (or is that a bug in the experimental packages and fixed in jaunty) [13:03] * jussi01 prods the ninjas [13:05] great. lots of crashes with that. :/ [13:21] apachelogger: wrt removal of libsdl1.2debian-arts [13:21] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive?highlight=(request)|(package)|(removal)#Removing%20Packages [13:21] ^^ implies that we should remove both source and binaries [13:21] however the source is libsdl1.2 [13:22] which is also the source for a number of libsdl1.2-foo packages [13:22] so is the correct solution actually to modify the source package to not build the -arts binary? [13:22] since we can't really remove the source package [13:25] ah, it seems all the -foo packages are rdepends of libsdl1.2debian-arts so they're going to break anyway [13:26] getting a little lost here. Is arts at a lower level than oss, esd, alsa etc? [13:32] Arby: arts is higher than those, as far as i know ... is those depends written explicitly in debian/control or made up from {$foo} variables? [13:33] Arby: arts is same level as esd [13:33] a|wen: those are what gets spat out by a combination of apt-cache show and apt-cache rdepends [13:33] same applies for pulseaudio I guess [13:34] they are all 3 sound servers, which just try to solve the multiple output source mixing problem and a the same time provide a simpler approach than alsa [13:34] Arby: rebuilding without build-depends on arts should remove the automagically generated depends (if that is what they are) [13:35] Arby: correct solution for sdl would be build the source package without arts support ... drop all references to the package ... and change the depends of all other packages that depend on it to not depend on it [13:35] or recommend or suggest [13:35] though the latter is rather low priority [13:36] ok well that saves me filing a removal request then, which is what brought all this about [13:36] hi ScottK [13:37] i still get this kmix crash at login just saying kmix crashed for unknown reason [13:37] startet in 4.1.4 [13:37] but kmix works fine if kde is fully loaded [13:43] ghostcube: does it do the same if you try to log in (test it a few times) with a new user? could be that kmix got saved as part of your session with some unfortunate values [13:43] a|wen, can i remove the saved session or would start blank session do the same ? [13:44] i just have one user [13:44] :D [13:44] start blank session should be the same [13:44] ghostcube: or if you are able to get a backtrace by having the -dbg packages installed, that would be good as well [13:45] i have them installed but kcrash tells me cant get useful bt [13:45] :| [13:46] hi, on a persistent/live on usb pen, how can i add more persistent space? since the pen is formatted with fat32 i can't create persistent file bigger than 4 gb... [13:47] is there a simple way to add more persistence files? [13:48] ghostcube: you have the kdemultimedia-dbg installed, right? [13:49] a|wen, moment have to look if this one is there right now [13:52] nope but why is it bringing juk with it lol [13:53] ghostcube: the -dbg packages (of kde) are meta-debug-packages, so they sadly have to bring in a lot of cruft [13:53] oh ok :) just wondered why juk is inside the dbg packages [13:53] ok if dled and installed i will tell u the output after relogin [13:55] ghostcube: thx [13:55] np [13:59] apachelogger: I assume I need to remove all references to arts from debian rules as well? [13:59] Arby: most likely [14:00] someone with firefox around? [14:00] apachelogger: here ... what to test/do? [14:00] a|wen: bug 281407 [14:00] Launchpad bug 281407 in kdebase "kfmclient won't exit after calling firefox" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281407 [14:04] apachelogger: confirmed ... kfmclient keeps running (until ctrl+c) [14:05] hm [14:05] apachelogger: does this look like a decent starting point http://paste.ubuntu.com/109385/ [14:05] a|wen: when you start firefox from a shell without arguments ... does it dispatch? [14:06] save me at least one failed build :) [14:06] Arby: - dropped Replaces/Conflicts libsdl1.2debian-arts for [14:06] libsdl1.2debian-alsa, -oss, -esd, -nas, -pulseaudio [14:06] that ought to stay [14:07] oh ok [14:07] Arby: I recommend you ask ./configure --help if there is anything you have to do to ensure the build will not break without arts [14:07] apachelogger: it dispatch both w/o any arguments, and while giving it an url [14:08] a|wen: when no prior firefox window is running? [14:09] apachelogger: no, it will only dispatch if another window is running [14:12] a|wen: but with kfmclient it doesn't even do with an open instance? [14:13] apachelogger: nope, exactly ... [14:14] apachelogger: if ./configure --help says [14:14] --enable-arts support the Analog Real Time Synthesizer [14:14] [default=yes] [14:14] --enable-arts-shared dynamically load aRts audio support [default=yes] [14:14] then I should set those to =no in debian/rules? [14:15] a|wen, http://pastie.org/370170 [14:15] do i need any other dbg too ? [14:16] a|wen: close all firefox ... strace kfmclient openURL > ~/kfmclient.1.strace 2>&1 ... gzip that file ... send to apachelogger@ubuntu.com [14:16] a|wen: open one firefox instance ... strace kfmclient openURL > ~/kfmclient.2.strace 2>&1 ... gzip that file ... send to apachelogger@ubuntu.com [14:16] actually [14:16] I think you might want to pass a URL with that ;-) [14:17] ghostcube: is that what you get? [14:17] yes [14:19] ghostcube: you might want to try qt-x11-free-dbg as well [14:19] * a|wen starts strace'ing [14:20] hm [14:20] I think my music hd is reaching it's live time span [14:20] making incredibly intersting noise [14:21] time for a new pc \o/ [14:22] actually IIUC are --enable-arts/--enable-arts-shared and --disable-audio-arts sort of mutually exclusive [14:23] debian/rules currently has --enable-arts-shared=no and --disable-audio-arts both set [14:23] apachelogger: is kfmclient supposed to dispatch if the underlying program (eg. firefox) don't do it by itself? [14:23] which means this package already has arts disabled unless I've misunderstood [14:24] a|wen: I am not sure ... (almost) all KDE apps dispatch by default [14:24] apachelogger: okay ... it doesn't dispatch if firefox is not running in any case [14:26] a|wen: I am not sure if kfmclient itself doesn't get dispatched by $invokingapp [14:26] so worst case might be ending up with some kfmclient processes [14:27] hmm a|wen not better [14:28] same output so far :) [14:28] a|wen: open some about $application dialogs and click the website URL... that should invoke kfmclient... then look how many kfmclients you have [14:31] brb [14:32] apachelogger: 2 strace output and 1 valgrind on the way to your inbox ... i'll test the about-box links [14:32] k, thx [14:34] apachelogger: i have no kfmclient processes running in w/ w/o a firefox window open when clicking [14:36] apachelogger: can you take a look at the backtrace from ghostcube http://pastie.org/370170 ... any idea what crashes, or which -dbg to install? [14:40] a|wen: doesn't that make the bug invalid? [14:40] if they want apps to dispatch from a shell they ought to attach a & [14:41] ghostcube: that crash happens when? [14:41] login [14:41] Error: Your hostmask doesn't match or your password is wrong. [14:41] nice [14:41] ghostcube: install kdebase-workspace-dbg [14:41] ok [14:41] stdin: ^ [14:44] apachelogger: it should be kmix crash on login (ghostcube's crash) [14:45] KWin (kwin), Signal SIGABRT [14:45] don't think so [14:45] then again that backtrace is pretty short alright :D [14:47] ghostcube: how did it turn out with a new session? [14:48] a|wen, ehm havent tried wait a momant i forgot it lol [14:48] brb [14:49] apachelogger: i think it is safe to call it invalid ... should be run with & [14:55] a|wen, with blank session it worked [14:56] but i have a stupid question folks [14:56] where to set the start otions for desktop effects [14:56] its gone [14:56] ghostcube: sounds good ... i'd suppose it was just a bad session [14:56] ah found it [14:57] nm [14:57] a|wen, yeah seems so [14:57] but i didnt get what coukld cause this weird [14:57] but thx for help [14:57] then all in 4.1.4 is fine now i can comment the packages heh [14:57] :) if still needed [14:58] ghostcube: your session pretty much tries to save the state of the app ... that can go bad over an upgrade for some reason [14:58] ok [14:58] ghostcube: very much appreciated, if you do that ... and report if you find anything else that is defunc in any way [14:58] so its better if such an not regular bug appears to try a new blank session before telling its a bug heh [14:59] oh i found an bug [15:00] now after clean session [15:00] :D [15:00] workspace switcher only shows 1 desktop it doesnt detects the virtual compiz ones anymore [15:01] apachelogger: got libsdl1.2 built. lintian is moaning as usual [15:01] http://paste.ubuntu.com/109415/ [15:01] are any of those actually important [15:01] ? [15:01] ok i got a crash for plasma :D after spinning compiz cube [15:01] :D [15:01] and now all 4 viewports are there [15:02] I can sort of understand the packagename does not match soname ones [15:02] but what does shlibs-declares-dependency-on-other-package libsdl1.2debian [15:02] mean [15:02] http://pastie.org/370190 plasma workspace switcher crash with enabled compiz [15:04] Arby: E: libsdl1.2_1.2.13-4ubuntu2_i386.changes: bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file jaunty [15:04] Arby: did you build in a jaunty pbuilder? [15:04] ghostcube: have you witnessed crashes with kde+compiz before also? (i would think that the combination would be kind of unstable) [15:04] well it wasn't pbuilder but it was a jaunty chroot [15:05] a|wen, yes but it wasent in 4.1.3 anymore its something whats first startet if plasma is startet first it works afaik if plasma starts after compiz its not [15:05] or opposite [15:05] so iam starting compiz by an wrapper script cause kde didnt enable loose-binding for nvidia [15:06] so i need a self made one [15:06] if plasma is startet after compiz it works [15:06] man [15:06] if the fonts on lunchpad were any smaller I would have to throw stuff at someone [15:06] apachelogger, lol [15:07] ghostcube: okay ... don't know if i would call it critical; is it reproducable? [15:07] a|wen, yep [15:07] on all kde4 boxes [15:07] * a|wen seriously suggestes ghostcube to run kwin ... it is nice in kde4 :) [15:08] first start of compiz only one workspace inside the switcher spin the cube it crashes and then 4 viwports working [15:08] a|wen, iam doing compiz support in cf i need it :D [15:09] i havent sayd kde4 isnt nice but i use it now since beryl :) so iam used to use it [15:09] :D [15:09] a|wen, the bug just crashes plasma once :D [15:10] i must check if it is only in an new session brb relogin with this saved one now [15:10] ghostcube: would be good to know [15:10] ok brb [15:10] someone please translate bug 317690 [15:10] Launchpad bug 317690 in kdebase-workspace "kdm-4 no logging if no window maneger is selected" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/317690 [15:12] ok the kwin crash at startup is related somehow to this workspace switcher [15:13] the switcher now shows 4 vieports but something crashes kwin [15:13] hmm not a big thing if you need compiz [15:13] seems to ba an i dont like u i leave u :D [15:14] plasma isnt crashing anymore now its again kwin hmm with the pastie i did before [15:15] i think without compiz this all wont happen [15:16] so the packages work so far for normal kde4 users i would say [15:16] the only thing need to be solved is the kmenu classic and its sorting but i told this already in #plasma this su a bit [15:18] ghostcube: that initial backtrace isn't worth much it seams; could be anything (and we don't know if it is kde or compiz that does it wrong) [15:18] apachelogger: because I forgot to highlight "well it wasn't pbuilder but it was a jaunty chroot" [15:19] is that error critical then? [15:19] nah [15:19] Arby: not related to your changes anyway ^_^ [15:19] apachelogger: so I should attach a debdiff to the arts bug report? [15:20] who do I bug to sponsor? you? [15:20] * apachelogger is triaging bugs! :P [15:20] Arby: ask in #ubuntu-devel [15:21] Arby: or just attach the debdiff and subscribe $sponsorteamforpackage [15:21] that sounds better [15:21] ghostcube: everything actually works, except that your kwin/plasma just needs to restart itself? [15:21] yes [15:21] and this seems an compiz compination problem [15:21] *b [15:22] I assume thats ubuntu universe sponsors or similar [15:22] ScottK: anything we want to do anything about? ^^^ kwin/plasma restart after login when using compiz+kde [15:22] ScottK: happens in kde4.1.4 [15:23] Arby: what is the source package? [15:23] compiz was made with Gnome in mind [15:23] a|wen: libsdl1.2 [15:24] Arby: it is in main [15:24] ah, thanks the binary is in universe hence the error [15:25] ghostcube: how did you set compiz as default WM? [15:25] Arby: ubuntu-main-sponsors [15:25] thanks [15:26] apachelogger, i building it from git so i made the compiz-kde-starter script like told in the settingsmanager cause the normal kde way starts it without loose-bining on nvidia cards what cause big speed probs [15:26] *binding [15:27] ok [15:27] a|wen: we won't then [15:27] apachelogger: thx; just wanted to be sure [15:28] ghostcube: just ignore the crash ... but feel free to report other regresions in kde4.1.4 (that is not compiz-related :) ) [15:28] lol yeah i will do but havent found any other till now :D [15:29] all works after the updates of xine-lib [15:29] hm [15:29] where is tonio? [15:29] omg [15:29] i cant test the kbuetooth thing i havent got bt [15:29] :D [15:31] ghostcube: we like those reports too :) [15:31] * a|wen has only got BT on his machine running kde4.2 ... so can't test either :/ [15:32] i hate it if i set my headset pairing on sightable everyone can check it out from the other building rofl so i not very friendly to bt [15:32] :D [15:52] Nightrose: will amarok ever get documentation again? :P [15:53] apachelogger: jep being worked on [15:53] okies [15:53] should be ready to commit soonish [16:04] hm [16:04] no one around today [16:04] no tonio, no smarter, no jonny... [16:06] * a|wen gives apachelogger a cookie to chunk on while he waits for the lot [16:06] * apachelogger munches [16:09] if a debian/changelog contains only entries from debian does that mean the package has only ever been synced and never changed in ubuntu? [16:10] specifically allegro4.2 which is the source for liballegro4.2-plugin-arts [16:13] Arby: I think so [16:17] Arby: if all merges were done according to spec, yes [16:29] apachelogger: breadcrumbs are a navigation mechanism, it's not limited for file browsers === Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu: Aboon them aa ye tak yer place | Next Kubuntu Meeting: Wednesday 28 January 2009 22:00UTC | Alpha-3 Released | Specs! http://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuJauntySpecs [16:30] yep, but do I need breadcrums for 2-3 levels? [16:30] when your other navigation controls suck? yes [16:30] how does it suck? [16:31] it's not perfect [16:31] but it suffice IMO [16:31] small target area? not labelled? [16:31] suffice means there is room for improvment [16:32] breadcrum is no improvement, it's a workaround [16:32] the concept would still be flawed [16:32] you just add another concept on top of it [16:32] sure.. but there is no other option right now [16:33] so we just let it sit broken for the next two years while raptor materializes out of vapor? [16:33] eventually people learn to use search withint eh two years and we can drop that whole menu tree all along [16:34] search is not a replacement for browsing. it is a completely different search strategy [16:34] you have to know what you are looking for in order to search and you can't explore what you don't know [16:34] you don't browse in kickoff [16:34] you enter a subcategory and leave it [16:35] you dont know what is in that subcategory until you look in it. if youre wrong you have to go to a new subcategory [16:35] when you are exploring [16:35] that search behavior is called browsing [16:36] * apachelogger did never see anyone use google's web directory rather than the search [16:36] because google is a search engine so no one thinks to go to a search engine to browse their directory :P [16:37] no, they use the searchbar [16:37] because google is a search engine and so people go to google to search [16:38] so, what is wrong with making them use kickoff as search? [16:38] because for the better part it is exactly that [16:39] krunner is kickoff without the menus to browse [16:39] kickoff provides high level information for users to be able to find more detailed information (the exact application) without overwhelming them with all of the information at once [16:40] and so people make choices based on smaller and smaller granularity information until they can find the piece of information they want [16:40] you won't go looking for k3b in internet [16:40] no.. but what about konqueror when people know it as both a web browser and file manager? [16:40] or kmail? is it in internet or office? [16:41] the goal is to create an organization so no one makes mistakes [16:41] search [16:41] so you know where you are going from the beginning [16:41] yeah, to the search :P [16:41] not everyone searches! [16:41] that is the problem! [16:41] or think they know enough information to search [16:41] or know what is available to search on [16:41] then the search is flawed [16:41] * seele slaps her face [16:42] seriously ... think about it [16:42] fi you are not really browsing [16:42] as in: looking for new cool apps you might have never seen [16:42] you will always know something related to that application [16:42] maybe it is something between the menings of to browse the folder and to search the item that is leading to this discussionoO [16:43] ghostcube: folders got nothing to do with it... you can also browse your menu [16:43] the problem is you can also search your menu [16:43] which is highly inefficient [16:43] yeah thats what i meant [16:43] now that youve had this great insight maybe you should go rewrite all the literature on information seeking behavior [16:44] apparently you know something that the IA industry does not [16:44] * apachelogger notes that he pissed-off seele enough and goes back to reviewing :P [16:50] i didnt get the problem guys lol [16:50] :D [16:50] ScottK, ping [17:16] o/ [17:17] :) === bholtsclaw is now known as imbrandon [17:58] ghostcube: Is compiz still a problem? [17:58] yep [18:04] ScottK, but all the other probs are gone its just a strange bug with plasma workspace siwtcher [18:04]