keesRiddell: still pending00:00
keesRiddell: I'm working on kernel and openjdk updates at the moment00:00
calcScottK: no i mean the fact that it launches a browser but does not return00:00
calcScottK: and since firefox when launched does not return it keeps launchpad-integration running iff firefox isn't running already00:01
ScottKI see.00:01
calcScottK: i'm talking about the launchpad-integration binary not library interface00:01
ScottKOur KDE packages use it too.00:03
Necrosanlessee if it works.00:04
* calc kicks ATT00:04
calctoo much packet loss for me to reach lp00:05
* calc sees if he can leech off someone else's wifi for a few min00:06
Necrosangreat,now X is crashing.00:09
bryceNecrosan: progress ;-)00:13
StevenKbryce: Are you around?00:15
bryceStevenK: yes00:15
StevenKbryce: So, do you know libx11-dev is broken? :-)00:16
brycenope; bug #?00:16
StevenKbryce: libx11-dev Depends on libxcb-xlib0-dev, libx11-6 Depends on libxcb1, libxcb-xlib0-dev pulls in libxcb-xlib0 and libxcb1 and libxcb-xlib0 Conflict00:16
bryceStevenK: hmm let me look00:18
slangasekdtchen: sure - I would've had the bug fixed by now, too, if it weren't for the fact that ia32-libs is such a seeping horror that requires every single lib it builds against to be in sync before you can upload...00:19
Turlcan anyone help me? I installed realvnc but it doesn't include Xvnc, needed to run it00:20
Turlsorry, wrong channel :p00:20
Turlthis should go in #gentoo00:20
brycehmm, according to the libx11 control file, libx11-dev depends on libxcb1-dev.  Where does libxcb-xlib0-dev come from?00:20
StevenKbryce: apt-cache show in my jaunty chroot says libxcb-xlib0-dev00:21
slangasekStevenK: mm, not sure that I'll have a chance to get to that today, we'll see00:21
StevenKbryce: Double checking00:22
bryceStevenK: ok this may be beyond my packaging-fu but it looks like the *old* libx11-dev depended on libxcb-xlib0-dev (up to libx11-1.1.5), but the new one does not have that dependency any longer00:22
brycepresumably something should be added to clue apt in of the change?00:23
StevenKbryce: Mmmm. I just updated against archive.u.c, so looks like libx11-6 and libx11-dev are out of sync on my mirror00:23
* StevenK kicks his mirror and tells it to update00:24
slangasekright, libx11 was just uploaded today00:24
slangasekit was dep-wait on libxcb which was dep-wait on xcb-proto; I fixed that so I could upload ia32-libs :P00:25
bryceslangasek: ahaaa00:25
directhexsorry, i felt left out00:26
slangasekahhhh the atmosphere00:27
slangasekhah, there we go, after I kill the reference to libxcb-xlib0 in ia32-libs, it finally builds :P00:27
Necrosantjaalton: sunffb still crashes even with that patch applied.00:30
NecrosanOh boy.00:36
mib_zo2qpbqmHi, I was curious as to everybody's opinion on a very important and controversial issue. That particular issue is, what is the best way to store and ferment/cure your own urine. I have been storing my urine in water bottles, one gallon jugs, and cups mostly. I have many bottles stored inside my room and outside as well as outside. My dad at first, did not accept of the idea of me storing my urine in large contai00:38
mib_zo2qpbqmHi, I was curious as to everybody's opinion on a very important and controversial issue. That particular issue is, what is the best way to store and ferment/cure your own urine. I have been storing my urine in water bottles, one gallon jugs, and cups mostly. I have many bottles stored inside my room and outside as well as outside. My dad at first, did not accept of the idea of me storing my urine in large contai00:38
mib_zo2qpbqmHi, I was curious as to everybody's opinion on a very important and controversial issue. That particular issue is, what is the best way to store and ferment/cure your own urine. I have been storing my urine in water bottles, one gallon jugs, and cups mostly. I have many bottles stored inside my room and outside as well as outside. My dad at first, did not accept of the idea of me storing my urine in large contai00:38
mib_zo2qpbqmHi, I was curious as to everybody's opinion on a very important and controversial issue. That particular issue is, what is the best way to store and ferment/cure your own urine. I have been storing my urine in water bottles, one gallon jugs, and cups mostly. I have many bottles stored inside my room and outside as well as outside. My dad at first, did not accept of the idea of me storing my urine in large contai00:38
mib_zo2qpbqmHi, I was curious as to everybody's opinion on a very important and controversial issue. That particular issue is, what is the best way to store and ferment/cure your own urine. I have been storing my urine in water bottles, one gallon jugs, and cups mostly. I have many bottles stored inside my room and outside as well as outside. My dad at first, did not accept of the idea of me storing my urine in large contai00:38
slangasek!ops mib_zo2qpbqm00:38
ubottuError: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)00:38
directhexyay for Hobbsee00:38
ajmitchah, mibbit00:38
slangasekhrm, is that not the right command?00:38
NecrosanAny ideas on that crash?00:38
* directhex offers Hobbsee some cake00:39
Hobbseeslangasek: you want !ops, or !ops | foo00:39
Hobbseedirecthex: thanks!00:39
Hobbseeslangasek: if it's obvious, just go for !ops00:39
cody-somervilleHow long does it take a build to publish?00:56
cody-somerville(primary archive)00:56
cody-somervilleIt finished building 38 minutes ago00:56
Keybukjust past the top of the next hour00:56
Keybukplus ~1 hour for publishing00:56
Keybukif it finished 38 minutes ago, it will be in the next publishing run, so another hour and a bit to go at least00:57
* Keybuk takes away cody-somerville's sugar01:02
* slangasek injects the sugar into his own eyeballs01:07
Keybukslangasek: oh?01:07
slangasekwanna try?01:07
Keybukno, I don't think it would do them any good :p01:08
slangasekoh, ok01:15
slangasekdtchen: there we go, ia32-libs all fixored01:16
mathiazslangasek: about bug 321689 - it seems that some packages from -proposed have been included in 8.04.2 -server isos.02:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 321689 in openldap "openldap (slapd) installation fails" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32168902:35
stdinand the alternate ISOs02:44
ebroderCan someone accept the Hardy backport of remctl 2.13-2?02:49
ebroder(Intrepid would be cool as well, but I'm not using Intrepid right now, so I care less :-P)02:50
Hobbseeebroder: accepted.03:00
=== ScottK3 is now known as ScottK-desktop
* NCommander debates if he wants to just buy a time capsule or similar NAS, or roll my own ...03:19
TheMusoNCommander: roll your own. :p03:29
NCommanderTheMuso, any recommands on how to do it?03:29
TheMusoNCommander: nope :p03:29
* NCommander falls over03:30
ebroderTime Capsules don't suck, for the record03:33
TheMusoebroder: They probably would if one couldn't access them with Linux.03:38
ebroderTheMuso: That's fair. I still don't use Linux for desktop systems, though :)03:38
* TheMuso pats his file server. More extendable than any time capsuel, and can currently store 2.5 times more data than the biggest time capsuel without any additional HDs connected.03:39
* TheMuso is assuming that the biggest time capsuel is 1TB.03:40
ebroderThat's right03:40
TheMusoOh and no redundancy. I'm using Linux s/w raid here as well.03:40
ebroderYeah, yeah - I could spend a few hours making something more awesome, but I decided it was worth the convenience to never have to think about it again03:41
* TheMuso nods.03:43
YokoZarIs there a discrete file that refers to the current user's home folder?  I'd like to symlink to it without using environment variables.05:07
StevenK~ will probably get expanded by the shell05:08
StevenKYokoZar: But symlinks don't get resolved, it's a static link05:09
=== Pricey is now known as Guest75242
YokoZarStevenK: Hmm, how do I make a link to "~" then without just making a link to whatever user is typing ln -s ~05:10
persiaYokoZar, From where are you symlinking?05:12
=== lucas is now known as Guest20605
=== Hobbsee_ is now known as Hobbsee
calcdid freenode just explode?05:21
* calc had thought it was just his crappy dsl until he saw how many joins there are05:21
Hobbseecalc: clarke did, at least, yes.05:21
stdinseveral times it seems05:21
calcat&t is coming out tomorrow to fix my line, heh05:22
Hobbseehrm, now connecting from amsterdam.  OK then.05:22
dholbachgood morning05:25
=== mneptok_ is now known as mneptok
=== bluesmoke is now known as Amaranth
slangasekmathiaz: hrm, investigating05:49
slangasekmathiaz: sigh, not good :(05:52
=== Hobbsee` is now known as Hobbsee
tjaaltonNecrosan: file a bug with the log attached06:44
ebroderI just found a regression in a package I got backported. What's the right process here?06:48
ebroderremctl-server 2.13-2 in depends on netbase >= 4.31, but Hardy only has 4.30ubuntu106:49
ebroderThe change is significant - 4.31 added a new line to /etc/services06:49
Hobbseejdong: oh, crackporter....06:49
ScottKebroder: Didn't you say you'd tested this before it was approved?06:50
* ebroder sighs06:50
ebroderI tested the client06:50
ebroder...and also the new python-remctl package, because I knew how to use that one06:51
* ScottK headdesk.06:51
ebroderYeah...I know06:51
dholbachbug 30880006:51
ubottuLaunchpad bug 308800 in intrepid-backports "Please backport remctl 2.13-2 from Jaunty to Hardy and Intrepid" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30880006:51
* ScottK sighs.06:52
ZettoSomeone can include Bug #251173 in the milestone of jaunty-alpha-5 ?06:52
ubottuLaunchpad bug 251173 in netbeans-ide "Update NetBeans to 6.5" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25117306:52
ScottKebroder: The process is file a new bug against hardy backport explaining the problem (please subscribe me to it).06:52
HobbseeZetto: no.  and it didn't need to go across 3 channels either, btw.06:52
ebroderScottK: Ok. I'll do so, and include the fix. I'm really sorry06:52
ZettoHobbsee, ok06:52
ScottKebroder: Then see if you can figure the best solution.06:52
ScottKebroder: OK.  That's good.06:53
ScottKebroder: I don't feel so bad about mistakes as long as you clean up after yourself.06:53
ScottKIn the meantime, it's nearly 2AM here, so I'm going to bed.06:53
* ScottK will consider what to do in the morning.06:53
ebroderI'm pretty sure I can do the fix in 2 lines06:54
YokoZarAn Intrepid Ibex: http://img.waffleimages.com/b44642ef0d1f06ead5848f4a7a844773a369702c/00035152.jpg07:35
AmaranthYokoZar: hahahaha07:42
Amaranthfunniest thing I've seen all day :)07:42
pittiGood morning07:53
StevenKMorning pitti!07:53
Hobbseehey there pitti!07:53
RAOFHowdie all!07:54
* pitti waves to Australia07:55
pittisorry, -EHEMISPHERE07:55
* pitti ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ oʇ sǝʌɐʍ07:55
* RAOF wonders idly how that works.07:57
persiaThe magic of unicode.07:57
* Hobbsee gets boxes, and is sad.07:57
RAOFWhy does unicode appear to have RTL, upside down, latin?07:57
slangasekit appears to have it because it does in fact have it07:58
StevenKHm, works for me07:58
persiaActually, some letters are supported poorly: it's just people looking through the available glyphs, and picking some that looked right.  Lots of them are math symbols, etc.07:58
RAOFI mean: Why does unicode have RTL, upside down, latin?07:58
RAOFAlso, who'd like to make f-spot installable again in half an hour or so?07:58
StevenKpitti: Could I monopolise some of your time to NEW two things today?08:01
StevenKpitti: I uploaded both of them, so I can't do it. ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings, which is tiny, and desktop-switcher08:03
pittiStevenK: ah, uploaded those yourself? sure08:03
pittiStevenK: u-n-r-d -> main or universe?08:05
pittiStevenK: u-n-r-d does not have a COPYING08:07
pittiStevenK: please fix the short description of desktop-switcher08:09
sorenHow long does it take for stuff to go through source NEW these days? I see there's a bit of a queue.08:11
slangasekRAOF: "latin small letter turned r/t/a/e" are all used in phonetics08:11
pittiStevenK: desktop-switcher needs to build a .pot during package build (intltool-update -p --verbose)08:12
sorenAh, it seems the oldest stuff in there is from the 23rd, so not too long, I guess :)08:12
RAOFslangasek: Oh, of course.08:13
pittiStevenK: d-s accepted, u-n-r-d rejected due to missing COPYING08:13
dholbachHAHAHAHAHA :-)08:32
dholbachlooks like we have a bunch of fanclubs already08:33
pittiwhat would we do without Launchpad?08:34
ion_pitti: There’s a better rotated i: ᴉ08:34
pittiion_: tell that to the guys at http://www.sevenwires.com/play/UpsideDownLetters.html :)08:35
StevenKpitti: Right, I'll fix up desktop-switcher08:44
StevenKpitti: u-n-r-d-s re-uploaded as 0.108:46
StevenKpitti: u-n-r-d-s is fine as universe08:47
mvou-n-r-d-s? that sounds like a long name :)08:47
tkamppeterpitti, hi08:53
pittihey tkamppeter08:53
tkamppeterpitti, s-c-p needs a new Python library, see bug 321785, should I simply upload it (going into Universe NEW) or should I upload it into REVU?08:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 321785 in ubuntu "pysmbc library needed for system-config-printer to support browsing for SMB printer shares" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32178508:54
tkamppeterpitti, it is a simple package like python-cups and it is also from Tim Waugh.08:55
StevenKpitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/110194/ for proposed changes to desktop-switcher08:55
pittitkamppeter: if it's lintian clean, and you are reasonably sure about the packaging, just upload it; if you have some doubts and would like to get feedback, use REVU08:59
pittiStevenK: s/Allows the user to// IMHO, but the intltool stuff looks fine09:00
StevenKpitti: Hmmm, yeah09:01
StevenK"allows the user" is a little redudant :-)09:01
slangasektjaalton: do you have any further insights into bug #270259, given that it failed SRU verification?09:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 270259 in acpid "Leaks file descriptors and eventually runs out" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27025909:02
tkamppeterpitti, thanks. It is Lintian-clean (both source and binary) and it works (I can browse for SMB shares with s-c-p), so I will upload it.09:04
tjaaltonslangasek: no.. but it hasn't caused problems here anymore (running on ~300 desktops)09:04
tjaaltonso it definately fixed _something_09:04
slangasektjaalton: do you know what the python test program is that Paul refers to?09:05
slangasekoh, probably the one in the bug description09:06
tjaaltonhaven't tried it myself09:06
slangasekI can reproduce the problem using that script, even on jaunty09:09
tkamppeterpitti, package is uploaded now, its name is python-smbc.09:11
tjaaltonmaybe the rate of leaks is now smaller, but still not fully fixed09:11
StevenKslangasek: Also reproduced in Intrepid.09:13
StevenKtjaalton: It doesn't seem to be smaller.09:14
StevenKtjaalton: I just connected eight times and closed the socket, and acpid has another 8 FDs open09:14
tjaaltonStevenK: ok, but we haven't had any "/var full" incidents since the update (on our local repo)09:15
StevenK /var full is a side-effect, not the cause09:15
tjaaltonof course09:15
tjaaltoncaused by the logfile bombing09:15
StevenKSo it's pointless to declare that since /var hasn't filled up, it's fixed the problem.09:16
tjaaltonwell it's certainly better for us09:16
tjaaltonI would've seen that many times during these couple of months09:17
StevenKslangasek: Should we slam that bug back to Confirmed and open a task for Intrepid?09:17
slangasekAFAICS, the rate of leaks is still one socket per socket - so the leak doesn't look slower to me...09:17
slangasekStevenK: I wouldn't bother with a separate intrepid task at this point, let's worry about jaunty and hardy first09:17
slangasekah - I see, the patch only causes acpid to notice the closed socket when it tries to write to it and gets an EPIPE09:20
slangasekso if there are no ACPI events happening, the sockets stay open :)09:20
* slangasek generates an ACPI event and sees the socket close09:22
StevenKHow does one generate an ACPI event?09:22
slangasekStevenK: I closed my laptop lid. <shrug> :)09:22
StevenKHmm. My desktop doesn't have a laptop lid :-)09:22
StevenKMeh. It's not like 8-10 open FDs is going to kill anything09:23
pittiseb128: ah, I found out why consolidating is so slow; there are tons of bugs which do not have the 'apport-retrace' tag any more09:23
seb128pitti: how come?09:23
pittiif only I'd know09:24
* pitti retags them09:24
pittiseb128: I added logging for that case yesterday09:24
seb128pitti: it seems the retracer just don't add this tag by looking at the recent emails I got09:25
pittiseb128: the retracer isn't supposed to09:26
seb128pitti: what is supposed to?09:26
pittiseb128: when filing the bug it should already be there09:26
seb128pitti: need-arch-retracing is there when filling the bug09:26
seb128and apport-crash09:27
pittiseb128: right, and the apport-crash tag is set with the very same call09:27
seb128pitti: you said apport-retrace before though?09:27
pittimany of those are very old bugs, though (1xxxxx)09:27
seb128pitti: wasn't that supposed to be set on succeful retracing?09:27
pittimaybe the triagers just removed the tag09:27
pittiseb128: sorry, 'apport-crash' I mean09:27
seb128I doubt of that09:27
seb128do you have desktopish bug number?09:28
pittiI'll fix them once for now09:29
pittiand then observe when it happens again09:29
pitti1.500 bugs point towards a system problem, not to triagers removing it09:29
pittiseb128: no wonder that it takes 2:40 hours with that long list..09:30
seb128pitti: did you fix those already?09:31
pittiseb128: it's currently running, from the top09:31
pittibut tagging 1600 bugs will also take that long, I expect 2:30 hours09:31
seb128pitti: weird, bug #315307 is tagged but at the bottom of our list09:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 315307 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in gnome_rr_config_match() (dup-of: 314406)" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31530709:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 314406 in gnome-desktop "xrandr plugin of g-s-d crashes on startup" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31440609:31
seb128pitti: that's a duplicate though09:31
pittioh, hang on09:32
seb128pitti: do you handle duplicates incorrectly?09:32
seb128our list -> your list09:32
pittiseb128: right, I assume some/many of those are duplicates09:32
pittihowever, yesterday I found three bugs which weren't, but didn't have an apport-crash tag09:33
seb128pitti: maybe those were manual untagging09:33
pittiso it seems I need to clean up the dup db and throw out the bugs which were marked as dupe09:34
seb128I though using duplicates was useful09:34
seb128sometimes the duplicates have a different or better stacktrace and it's useful to have this one is the database09:35
pittiyes, but not as master bug09:35
pittiright, but then I should update the master bug number09:35
pittisince the dupes won't appear on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=apport-crash09:36
pittiwhich is what I am using to find out all non-fixed bugs09:36
pittiok, gives me something to work on09:36
pittibut first, sponsoring o'clock09:36
seb128brb, restarting session09:36
StevenKpitti: Oh, the other thing to please check for me is human-netbook-theme.09:44
slangasektjaalton: looking at the acpid source makes me sad :(09:46
tjaaltonslangasek: I can understand..09:48
slangasekespecially the part where they give each client an associated regexp of .* and then do regexp matching to decide whether to pass the event to the client09:51
tjaaltonuh :)09:52
slangasektjaalton: btw, do you know why libxcb1 declares a Conflicts: on libxcb-xlib0?  I don't see any filesystem-level overlapping09:59
slangasekthe Conflicts: without a Replaces: causes libx11-6 and libxcb1 to be held back on upgrades09:59
asacArneGoetje: 214519 ... is there anything in the pipeline for that dictionary or shall i just sponsor?10:01
tjaaltonslangasek: hmm, no I don't.. I'll ask jcristau10:03
ograKeybuk, !!10:11
ograKeybuk, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/21658731/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-armel.openjdk-6_6b14-0ubuntu10_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz why does udev fail here ?10:12
ogracat: /sys/kernel/uevent_seqnum: No such file or directory10:12
ograinvoke-rc.d: initscript udev, action "restart" failed.10:12
ogradpkg: error processing udev (--configure):10:12
* ogra saw that error in local image setups before, but it didnt fail back then ...10:13
=== Johnm_ is now known as johnm
ArneGoetjeasac: I don't have anything in the pipeline for that one... I just saw it in my bugmail.10:20
asac_ArneGoetje: thx10:21
asac_will proceed then10:21
ArneGoetjeasac_: ok, go ahead. Thanks :)10:21
slangasekanyone here with broadcom wireless who could test out whether the jockey SRU in hardy-proposed makes it work?10:34
=== asac_ is now known as asac
slangasek(bug #289845)10:34
ubottuLaunchpad bug 289845 in jockey "WL and B44 Not Properly Configured" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28984510:34
davmor2slangasek: any preference on architecture?10:37
seb128did anybody get xorg speed issues on intel in jaunty since recents updates?10:37
seb128ie opening new dialogs or switching workspace has several second lags10:37
slangasekdavmor2: no, just whether you have one of the wireless chips that didn't work previously10:38
MiloszIs there a way to see download statistics for packages somewhere?10:38
davmor2slangasek: I can't remember I have a feeling in hardy I had to use ndiswrapper10:39
directhexMilosz, sort of10:39
directhexMilosz, popcon.ubuntu.com - but that only counts users with the "popcon" package installed10:39
davmor2slangasek: I'll fire it up and see anyway10:40
MiloszHmm ok I was there, and didn't find the package I was looking for10:40
Miloszi'll check again10:40
Miloszdirecthex, thanks10:40
seb128tjaalton, tseliot: ^ did you read my xorg question? any known recent speed issue on jaunty intel?10:42
tseliotseb128: I've noticed that too but I don't know what's causing the problem10:44
davmor2slangasek: I have the same chipset as in the bug and on today iso it works fine from cd do you want it installing and testing?10:50
slangasekdavmor2: what do you mean by "today's iso"?  I'm looking for a test of the hardy SRU, and there are no hardy ISOs from today... :)10:51
davmor2slangasek: iso is the one from the 21st I hit the sta driver in jockey and wireless networks appears I select the connection and the t'interweb works :)10:55
slangasek'sta' driver?10:55
slangasekdavmor2: sounds like a positive result, then - could you post that information to the bug, please?10:56
davmor2slangasek: listed as Broadcom STA wireless driver in jockey10:56
slangasekah, so it is10:57
* apw wonders who has the best view of how the kernel/hal/Xorg/gnome-power-manager fit together, as we are seeing double and tripple suspends in response to a button led suspend10:57
slangasekapw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hotkeys/Architecture, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hotkeys/Troubleshooting for a starting point10:58
slangasekdavmor2: oh, this bug only affects machines that also have the b44 driver - is that the driver for your ethernet on this machine?10:59
davmor2slangasek: http://www.davmor2.co.uk/hplappy.html seems to be the same chipset as the initial reporter11:02
cqhm, any idea why ubuntu has a much larger /lib than a debian install?11:03
slangasekwell, the ethernet is listed as forcedeth there, so I guess it's not the same enough11:03
slangasekdavmor2: thanks for testing, but I guess the results are inconclusive except to show that there's not a regression11:03
tjaaltonseb128: yes, bug 32081311:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 320813 in mesa "[GM45] with EXA compiz animations cause temporary freezes" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32081311:03
seb128tjaalton: thanks11:04
apwoh its this fix to X to make the sleep button work11:04
seb128tjaalton: any idea if that will be fixed quickly in jaunty or how to workaround?11:04
tjaaltonseb128: no proper workaround I'm afraid11:04
apwnow how can i find that11:04
tjaaltonseb128: well, don't suspend :)11:04
tjaaltonthat's known to trigger it11:05
seb128tjaalton: I didn't suspend, that's a fresh boot from today11:05
cjwatsoncq: all sorts of possible reasons (different kernel module sets, firmware, things like FUSE and NTFS moved into /lib to support using them in early boot, etc.). Why?11:06
tjaaltonseb128: ok, so it's triggered by something else then11:06
tjaaltonseb128: check dmesg if there's anything suspicious11:06
cqcjwatson, i just moved my system to LVM (tmp, swap, usr, var, home) and have a too-small root partition for the Ubuntu lib11:07
cjwatsoncq: that's life, sorry11:07
cqcjwatson: no kidding, I was just wondering if that was a design decision, and if so why.... supporting more at boot makes sense11:07
cjwatsonpersonally I have never recommended separate /usr and /var11:07
cjwatsonwell, not separate /usr anyway11:08
cjwatsonI can understand separate /var for log files and so on11:08
cqwhy not? meaning /usr on root, or together with var?11:08
* slangasek separates /usr to avoid overhead of encryption11:08
tjaaltonseparate /usr is UNIX legacy :)11:08
cjwatsoncq: it's not a design decision in itself, but is the likely consequence of other design decisions11:08
cjwatsonseparate /usr *should* be supported, I agree, but is an excellent way to ensure that you're first to run into a slew of bugs11:08
cjwatsonso if you like that sort of thing, great11:08
seb128tjaalton: nothing special there from a quick glance11:09
slangasekhrm, I can't remember the last time I ran into a bug because of it :)11:09
tjaaltonseb128: ok, and I bet nothing in the xorg log either11:09
seb128nor in syslog11:10
cjwatsonI remember in particular that hwclock behaved differently for a while if you had a separate /usr11:10
cjwatsonand of course encrypted filesystems were broken at some point (was it edgy? feisty?)11:10
cjwatsonthe first release after we introduced vaguely working support for them post-usplash, anyway11:11
seb128ok, restarting my box and having lunch too, bbl11:11
=== Guest44711 is now known as jelmer
tjaaltonseb128: I'm pretty certain that it's the new drm patches that got in -5.15, since I had been running the same userland for a week without problems11:12
cqbefore running gparted, is there a way to defragment the drive?11:18
apwpresumably you could just test by booting back to the -4 kernel wnhich should still be installed11:18
BUGabundocq ext doesnt fragment11:18
cqok, so I can just resize the partition to as small as the existing data permits?11:19
BUGabundoalthough fsck does some file reording with -D11:19
cqplus a safety margin...11:19
BUGabundoyeah, u need a margin11:19
cqit wants 15gb, i give it 30 :)11:27
BUGabundowhat does df -h say»11:27
cqnothing right nowm its still resizing down from 900GB :)11:29
apwone or two cylinder groups to check11:29
cqthe weird part is, according to DF it should only have used 500MB11:31
apwsuperm1, you did some changes to X to get XF86Battery key working on bug #281134 wanted to talk to you about the XKeySymDB update that that brought11:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 281134 in xkeyboard-config "Intrepid regression: XF86Battery hotkey doesn't work" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28113411:41
cjwatsongah. of course it would be too easy if random packages didn't break the installer build :-/11:46
=== sabdfl1 is now known as sabdfl
ogracjwatson, i see d-i still on the ftbfs list, i though the udebs were there and would fix it ?11:53
ograah, your latest upload seems to attack that, i see11:54
cqI have a kubuntu X server problem... maybe you guys have an idea11:55
cqI boot the machine, get to the login screen, log in, and the resolution is set too low. Then I click on system settings -> display, and hte display goes dark and then adjusts to the correct resolution...11:55
StevenKpitti: So, if I can tempt you to look at the archive again -- desktop-switcher has built everywhere so needs review for binary NEW. I've not uploaded -0ubuntu2 with the .pot fix, I was waiting for -0ubuntu1 to get out of NEW first. Then there's the new u-n-r-d-s and human-netbook-theme in source NEW. :-)11:55
cqnext boot, same story.11:56
pittiStevenK: W: desktop-switcher: script-with-language-extension usr/bin/gconf-panel-saving.sh11:56
pitti :)11:57
StevenKMeh, it's a warning :-P11:57
pittiStevenK: h-n-t needs to grow .icon files for translated emblems, and needs to drop build/ from the orig.tar.gz (the latter is more relevant for NEW, since it ships binary files in the tar.gz)12:00
StevenKThere's a build directory!? How did I miss that?12:00
pittiStevenK: cf. the recent changes to human-icon-theme from primes2h12:01
StevenKpitti: I wonder if we can just have h-n-t depend on human-icon-theme12:01
pittiStevenK: it does already?12:01
pittiStevenK: (and please fix debian/rules clean to remove build)12:01
pittiStevenK: d-s binary NEWed, u-n-r-d-s isn't in the queue (forgot to remove the .upload file?), rejected h-n-t for the binary stuff12:03
* StevenK kicks dput12:03
StevenKpitti: I'll deal with d-s armel when it turns up since you've accepted the rest12:04
StevenKpitti: u-n-r-d-s reuploaded.12:05
ogracant you generate longer abbreviations ? :P12:07
StevenKogra: I can expand it out if you want12:07
ograwell, u-nerds sounds funny actually :)12:08
ogranow that i read it aloud12:08
pittiKeybuk: any idea what else in bug 283316 could call vol_id or scsi_id? what udevmonitor incantation would you recommend for debugging this?12:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 283316 in udev "CD-ROM tray closes automatically after eject" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28331612:09
StevenKpitti: Er, what translatted emblems?12:10
StevenKpitti: I'm not so clear on theme packages, so you can explain the first part with butchers paper and crayon?12:10
pittiStevenK: bug17235312:10
pittibug 17235312:10
ubottuLaunchpad bug 172353 in human-icon-theme "Human theme has non-translatable emblem names." [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17235312:10
pittihas the details12:10
StevenKAh, okay12:10
StevenKpitti: Which bit of h-n-t has emblems?12:13
StevenKpitti: Since maybe they can get stripped12:13
pittiStevenK: ah, sorry; it doesn't ship its own icons, sorry; ignore me12:13
StevenKpitti: Right, so the build directory is the only thing. Cool.12:14
StevenKpitti: u-n-r-d-s? :-P12:16
tkamppeterI have uploaded Ghostscript 8.64RC1 and it builds perfectly on PCs (i386 and x86_64) but fails on all non-PC architectures (sparc, powerpc, lpia, ia64, hppa) not being able to install its needed libraries due to inconsistencies in the repositories.12:20
Keybukpitti: hal?12:20
ddeathWhat do you can tell me about dekstop sharing on Ubuntu?12:20
ddeathI have new idea to do it.12:21
tkamppeterThe following packages have unmet dependencies:12:21
tkamppeter  freeglut3-dev: Depends: xlibmesa-gl-dev but it is not going to be installed or12:21
tkamppeter                          mesag-dev or12:21
tkamppeter                          libgl-dev12:21
tkamppeter                 Depends: xlibmesa-glu-dev or12:21
tkamppeter                          libglu-dev12:21
pittiKeybuk: I mean, the udev rules still call vol_id if there are tracks, I just wonder how to check that in an udev debugging output log12:21
Keybukogra: because it can't restart the running udev on the buildd I guess12:21
ddeathWhy I must share whole desktop, nor only certain application12:21
Keybukpitti: udevadm monitor --udev should tell you12:21
Keybukit'll show you the tracks in the env12:21
StevenKKeybuk: I didn't think the buildds used udev ?12:22
ograKeybuk, hmm, any way to avoid that in the package ?12:22
ograKeybuk, i would exect the buildd env to be in a chroot, udevs shouldnt restart in a chroot12:22
* ogra needs type training :(12:23
Keybukin this case, it looks like it's failing even before that because the chroot doesn't have /sys mounted12:23
Keybukor has an ancient kernel12:23
pittiKeybuk: thanks, asked for that and test with hal stopped12:25
cjwatsonogra: ignore d-i, I'm looking at it12:25
ogracjwatson, yeah, i saw that after asking :)12:26
ddeathHi everybody12:29
StevenKpitti: *prod* h-n-t uploaded12:34
pittiStevenK: both done12:37
StevenKpitti: As in ACCEPTed?12:38
StevenKpitti: Ahh, thanks :-)12:38
=== davmor2 is now known as davmor2-lunch
directhexcjwatson, poke poke r.e. debhelper 7.1. 7.1 (in experimental) broke something that pkg-mono has been using for a few years to handle package versioning. since all current mono development is happening in experimental, this has forced the need for "mono" and "cli-common" to be altered with workarounds. net result: either jaunty needs dh7.1 too, or all jaunty mono from now on needs to be merged rather than synced, to revert those 7.12:43
directhex1 workarounds (and cli-common-dev absolutely NOT updated)12:43
StevenKpitti: Both of them are in binary NEW12:44
StevenKdirecthex: Are they using a compat level of 6 or below?12:44
directhexStevenK, no. 7.0 is used extensively12:45
StevenKdirecthex: The version has a little to do with the compat level12:46
StevenKdirecthex: If you've been using the behaviour for a few years, you'd be stuck in compat 5 or so?12:46
directhexStevenK, yes, it looks like mono and cli-common have a compat of 5.12:47
StevenKdirecthex: If debhelper 7.1 has broken compat 5, then file a bug on debhelper12:48
seb128tjaalton: the way to trigger the xorg slowness on my laptop is to restart the session12:48
directhex<meebey> compat is used for extra features in existing debhelper files, which is not the case here12:53
cjwatsonhas anyone asked joeyh about it?12:53
StevenKIt should not break backward compatibility12:53
cjwatsonmeebey's description is inaccurate, TBH12:53
directhexthere's some new syntax in 7.1+1 afaik12:53
cjwatsoncompat has been used in the past to cope with changes that required breaking backward compatibility12:53
StevenKSince doing so could render large parts of the archive insta-FTBFS12:54
cjwatsonit is NOT just for new features12:54
tjaaltonseb128: ok..12:54
sorenseb128: Killing gnome-power-manager doesn't help?12:54
cjwatsondirecthex: can you give me a precise reference - what change was required in mono?12:54
seb128soren: I doubt of it, I'm on ac and I don't have any processus eating cpu12:54
sorenseb128: Doesn't matter.12:55
sorenseb128: It doesn't use much CPU, it just keeps Xorg *really* busy.12:55
sorenseb128: I'm on AC as well and had the same problem.12:55
seb128I though that issue was trigerred by power management events, ie changing backlight or ac to battery12:55
seb128and it was already there one week ago12:55
seb128I just started having the issue with the upgrade I did yesterday12:56
=== Guest69572 is now known as jrib
meebeycjwatson: you think the init() change was a bug?12:57
StevenKmeebey: I think so too.12:58
meebeything is, debhelper never had a proper interface for non-debhelper parameters12:58
meebeyso cli-common-dev used parameters that are used by existing debhelper tools12:58
meebeycould call it "internal usage"12:59
meebeynon-debhelper in this context means dh-scripts not part of the debhelper source package12:59
meebeynow with dh7.1, joeyh added an API for it, init() takes an argument now12:59
tjaaltonseb128: disabling vblank again might fix it for now13:00
seb128tjaalton: how do I do that?13:00
tjaaltonseb128: build mesa with the patch from the previous version13:00
seb128tjaalton: ok, that could take a while, maybe I'll try later ;-)13:02
tjaaltonseb128: sure13:02
meebeythe change in dh7.1 was a backwards compatiblity breakage without doubt, but relying on parameters maybe handled by debhelper or not was not that nice either13:02
PecisDarbshi people, what does linux-image-virtual means and why it doesn't have all ata kernel drivers? It is on purpose?13:02
meebeyso cli-common-dev < 0.6 needs dh < 7.113:02
StevenKmeebey: Or you needed to bump compat to 8 due to the change and still deal with the old behavior13:03
StevenKmeebey: Since breaking debhelper can make large parts of the archive insta-FTBFS13:03
tjaaltonseb128: http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-xorg/lib/mesa.git;a=blob_plain;f=debian/patches/102_dont_vblank.patch;h=99000f2f819dade994f3b221e48c456a3dfccff0;hb=4f2e014fcd7c6fa58172c768f843e678c1332ea013:03
tjaaltonseb128: that's the actual patch13:04
meebeyStevenK: AFAIK compat was never used for internal changes, only for source package that use debhelper directly, which is not the case for cli-common-dev13:04
seb128tjaalton: ok13:04
meebeyStevenK: cli-common-dev doesn't use debhelper, it extends debhelper13:04
lamont`WTF piece of braindamage in network-mangler causes it to generate resolv.conf files with both 'domain' and 'search' directives?13:04
StevenKmeebey: Hmm. It provides a dh_ ?13:04
meebeyStevenK: yes13:04
=== lamont` is now known as lamont
meebeyStevenK: dh_makeclilibs which causes the pain now13:05
meebeyStevenK: -m is ignored means it generates no minimum version for clilibs13:05
tjaaltonseb128: I could build it myself later13:06
meebeyStevenK: I fixed that in cli-common-dev, that it registers the parameter it needs and that fixes it13:06
meebeyStevenK: didn't upload yet though13:06
seb128tjaalton: do you get the bug to test that change?13:06
tjaaltonseb128: yep13:06
seb128ok good, I will let you try then, I've enough other things to do today ;-)13:06
StevenKRight, that is a completly different issue ...13:06
tjaaltonseb128: the kernel was ruled out, at least the recent changes didn't break it13:07
tjaaltonseb128: me too.. damn ITIL web course (using flash of course)13:07
meebeyStevenK: a bit odd is thought hat debhelper still registers some parameters for all tools :)13:08
junyerwho's the best person to hassle about the autofs{,5} packages?13:09
meebeyStevenK: a bit inconsistent :-P13:09
meebeylike -V IIRC13:09
mok0We're seeing more and more packages coming from VCS repos and with no upstream tarball. I'm looking for suggestions on how to make the watch file work for those13:10
junyer(specifically, with regard to autofs v4 EOL)13:12
cjwatsonmeebey: ah, so the problem is with debhelper extensions not ordinary debhelper use. hmm.13:17
cjwatsonmeebey: it feels to me that there ought to be a way to make the new code in cli-common-dev backwards-compatible, even if we can't make debhelper backwards-compatible13:17
cjwatsonmeebey: actually, surely it already is13:18
meebeycjwatson: well I didn't change any parameter usage code13:19
cjwatsonmeebey: if it's just a matter of passing an extra argument to init(), you can do that without breaking old debhelper13:19
meebeycjwatson: I only registered the parameters, thats all13:19
cjwatsonsince old debhelper's init() ignored @_13:19
meebeycjwatson: so perl wouldn't cry?13:19
cjwatsoninit isn't prototyped so it won't check13:19
meebeyso cli-common-dev works with old debhelper then13:20
cjwatsonI haven't checked this, but my perl's pretty good13:20
meebeydidn't know perl was that hacky^Wrelaxed13:20
cjwatsonmeebey: depends whether you use prototypes or not; if you use prototypes it's stricter. joeyh is a bit old-school and often doesn't, though13:34
cjwatsondirecthex: so it sounds as if this is not a major problem; we just take new cli-common-dev and don't worry13:35
directhexcjwatson, well, i'll try a test build of mono 2.0.1-3 which would exhibit a problem13:35
directhexif there were one to exhibit13:35
directhexbut first, i must buy some bubble wrap13:35
meebeyso I can lower the build-dep of mono on debhelper13:43
directhexmeebey, test build needed, to be 101% certain13:44
directhexbut first, bubble wrap!13:44
meebeydirecthex: you can do that, just need to check any deps if they have versions or not13:45
loolcjwatson: I had to repush xine-lib still for bug #290768 as a security update was just released13:49
ubottuLaunchpad bug 290768 in xine-lib "C format string specifications mismatch in translations crashes libxine based apps in some loales" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/29076813:49
loolcjwatson: 1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1intrepid1 is in unapproved13:50
=== davmor2-lunch is now known as davmor2
superm1apw, yeah, what about it?14:03
apwsuperm1, do you know if htat might have included the XF86Sleep symbol?14:04
mdeslaursiretart: I noticed you were the one who merged xine-lib the last. There are security issues in xine-lib in Jaunty. Either I apply the security patches to it, or someone merges from unstable. What do you think would be best?14:04
superm1apw, no it didn't. Here's the diff: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/20150384/libx11_2%3A1.1.5-2ubuntu1_2%3A1.1.5-2ubuntu1.1.diff.gz14:06
superm1apw, i believe upstream renamed the keys between intrepid and jaunty however14:06
apwit did bring the one i meant (and missstated), thanks for the diff14:06
apwi think that is the cause of strange bug i have with machines double suspending14:07
apw(or even tripple)14:07
superm1apw, do you mean hibernating or suspending?14:07
apwi mean suspend in this case14:07
apwyou iht FN-f4 and my T30 suspends 3 times14:07
apwie suspends again twice after waking14:07
superm1apw, on jaunty or intrepid?14:07
apwand a number of other platforms report double suspend14:07
apwon jaunty14:07
superm1apw, well on jaunty that's a little more explainable i think.  hal sends those as dbus events and gnome power manager reacts to them14:08
superm1apw, so are there multiple users logged in?14:08
ograapw, there is some discussion on the hal ML about having keys captured multiple times on IBM HW (not sure thats related)14:08
StevenKpitti: *prod* please release h-n-t and u-n-r-d-s from binary NEW. And webfav is in source NEW. And that's the last one, I swear!14:08
apwsuperm1, no not multiple users14:09
apwwhat we see at gnome-power-manager is a hal key coming in and an XF86Suspend X event coming in and _both_ being executed14:09
seb128StevenK: didn't you have ubuntu-archive powers?14:10
apwfor my T30 there is something even odder going on in that HAL produces two keys from different places14:10
superm1apw, then what you'll want to do is put a dbus monitor on the bus and see how many times the event is being sent14:10
apwbut i suspect that is a separat bug14:10
apwwhich event the suspend event?14:10
StevenKseb128: I still do, I don't like pulling stuff I've uploaded out of binary or source NEW.14:10
StevenKseb128: Second pair of eyes, etc, etc14:10
seb128StevenK: binary new is usually no issue14:10
apwthey are real complete and separate suspend/resume cycles14:10
superm1apw, gnome-power-manager shouldn't be reacting to the X event, only the dbus event14:10
apwwell it has code in it to react?14:10
seb128StevenK: we usually don't NEW our source uploads but I consider binaries as being no issue14:11
apwwhich now works as the keysymbol now exists :)14:11
StevenKseb128, pitti: Okay, I'll deal with binary NEW.14:11
StevenKseb128: Review webfav in source NEW? :-)14:11
superm1apw, it has code to react that's commented out14:11
seb128StevenK: not now I'm busy on some other things right now, will do tomorrow during my archive day if nobody else did before ;-)14:11
apwsuperm1, will check, didn't look commented out, and produces mssages in my logs14:12
superm1apw, hm, well XF86Battery is commented out in 2.24.0-0ubuntu13.  if the others aren't, then they should be14:13
apw/              gpm_button_xevent_key (button, XF86XK_Suspend, GPM_BUTTON_SUSPEND);14:18
apw                gpm_button_xevent_key (button, XF86XK_Sleep, GPM_BUTTON_SUSPEND); /* should be configurable */14:18
apwso ... Suspend is commented out but Sleep is not, and its Sleep that we see in the logs ... interesting14:19
apwi wonder what that means14:19
apwsuperm1, so is key handling moving frmo hal direct to X do you know?14:22
superm1apw, so what changed here is that X no longer has an exclusive hold on the key.  that's why HAL can send the dbus event14:25
superm1apw, i believe this is the model that is going to stick, but you might check with pitti on it if he knows where HAL is headed about this14:26
apwso you think it is hal which is the new event here14:26
pittiI'm not actually sure14:27
superm1i'm sure it is. that's what preempted my dropping 79-enable-battery-hotkey.patch14:27
superm1when I pressed XF86Battery, I saw two popups.  this was because I saw one dbus event from HAL and one grabbed keypress14:27
apwsuperm1, so by that same theory we should be suppressing XF86Sleep in g-p-m as hal is doing the job now14:28
superm1apw, so i think in the short term, if any of those keys are still grabbed by gnome-power-manager that also get dbus events, you should throw a patch together that comments out the keys that are also sent by HAL.14:28
superm1apw, yeah14:28
apwsuperm1, will give that a go as step one for these people, thanks14:29
apwfor me i still have an issue in that now hal is producing keys i get two, and they both look rea;14:29
apwreal ...14:29
apwthey pop out two different hal channels, not sure if thats a kernel issue or hal14:29
superm1apw, so the weird thing though is that only a few machines are seeing this?  you should be able to reproduce it on any machine I would think14:29
apwbut one bit a a time14:29
apwsuperm1, not convinced it isn't every machine yet14:30
apwas its only showing up on jaunty14:30
apwand it only hits you if you hit the key, and my key didn't work on intrepid14:30
superm1apw, well it will only show up in jaunty, that's when the HAL change happend14:30
apwso i never used it, it was only when people reported the double and i found it differeed14:30
apwfor menu driven suspend and key that i tried my key again14:30
apwso i gained a working key at the saem time it broke14:31
apwif you get me14:31
apwanyhow superm1 you have been most helpful as always14:32
superm1apw, no problem, i've somehow gotten more involved in this hotkey mess :)14:32
apwits all those cute keys they keep adding to those dells that does it14:33
directhexmeebey, what's the telltale sign whether this works or not? how would i spot a "bad" build in this context? missing versions on arch-all package deps?14:47
apwso i have just apt-get source gnome-power-manager and it tells me to use bzr, and spits out a bzr command to use which doesn't work14:51
apwany idea how i find out where it really is in launchpad14:52
james_w"doesn't work"? what was the command?14:55
siretartmdeslaur: please merge unstable. there is little point in staying at 1.1.1414:56
apwPlease use:14:56
apwbzr get bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ted-gould/gnome-power/ubuntu-packaging14:56
apwwas what it told me14:56
apwapw@dm$ bzr get bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ted-gould/gnome-power/ubuntu-packaging14:57
apwbzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ted-gould/gnome-power/ubuntu-packaging/".14:57
apwand that is what it says when you try it14:57
mdeslaursiretart: you wouldn't feel like doing it, would you? :)14:57
apwjames_w, i though that there was a short form now like lp://gnome-power/trunk14:58
james_wapw: seems like you want https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~gnome-power-manager-team/gnome-power/ubuntu-packaging-2.2414:58
siretartmdeslaur: I'll try to find time to merge it this evening, ok?14:58
apwjames_w, how on earth did you figure that out?14:58
james_w"bzr branch lp:~gnome-power-manager-team/gnome-power/ubuntu-packaging-2.24" will get you that14:58
mdeslaursiretart: that would be great! :)14:58
james_wapw: https://code.launchpad.net/gnome-power14:59
james_wapw: if you are changing something in the package would you update the URLs in debian/changelog then please?14:59
apwjames_w, sure thing14:59
james_wtedg: could you confirm that lp:~gnome-power-manager-team/gnome-power/ubuntu-packaging-2.24 is the branch to use to make changes in jaunty?15:00
james_werr, yeah, debian/control of course15:00
apwthere is also a real trunk15:00
seb128james_w: control.in in desktop packages if you want to keep your changes after a clean target run ;-)15:00
james_wlp:gnome-power is the upstream code15:01
james_wseb128: ah, of course :-)15:01
tedgjames_w: Uhm, I believe it should be.  But I merged the Debian SVN into there accidentally -- so it got downgraded to 2.22 :(15:01
tedgjames_w: So, yes, but it's FU right now.15:01
seb128brb, xrandr screwed the usuable screen region when switching and there seems to be no other way that a reboot15:02
apwtedg, does that mean that we don't have the code we have in jaunty to modify?15:02
tedgapw: Well, what is current in Jaunty is an older revision on that branch.15:03
tedgapw: But there is a lot of other work on that branch that I don't want to loose.15:03
tedgapw: For instance, merging in all the mactel's team work.15:03
apwtedg, ok so if i want to make a change destined for jaunty, where should i base my branch15:04
apwi presume i should base from whats in jaunty to provide maximum flexibilty for where it gets merged to15:05
apwi presume we tag those branches when we cut releases?15:05
apw(where releases means something for upload)15:05
tedgapw: I don't usually tag.  There's not enough revisions that I've done that.  debcommit should though...15:07
tedgapw: Anyway, r108 of that branch is what is in Jaunty.15:07
apwso you would recommend branching from there15:08
apwso say it was 100% important we could release from that branch etc15:08
apwand if not it should merge just fine into your jaunty head15:08
tedgYeah, I would say that if you branched from there, then we should be able to merge everything in -- that's Bazaar's job, right? :)15:09
apwyeah we should indeed.  all changes should be against the last version so they can be merged in any order, imo15:10
lool§wo, 115:21
pirrohhi, could someone with ubuntu+1 paste me the output of cat /proc/sys/fs/epoll/max_user_instances ? thanks a lot15:22
pochupirroh: maybe try #ubuntu+115:28
pirrohpochu: thanks for the hint15:29
meebeydirecthex: unversioned deps on limono*-cil packages15:46
directhexmeebey, doesn't matter. won't build. "Unknown option: internal-mono"15:47
meebeydirecthex: which dh did you use?15:47
directhex7.0.foo. whatever's in jaunty15:48
meebeythats just for mono15:48
meebeyspecial case15:48
meebeyas it passes --internal-mono15:48
meebeyso that requires dh7.115:48
meebeybut non-mono would not15:48
meebeycli-common-dev 0.6 would be backwards compatible with dh7.015:49
meebeybut cli-common-dev 0.5 is not forward compatible with dh7.115:50
meebeyand in the case of the mono source package, it's not backward compatible with dh7.015:50
directhexis there no way to make it backward compatible? i had hoped to avoid merging15:51
meebeyso the issue is that ubuntu has no dh7.1 so mono can be synced?15:51
cjwatsonwell, debhelper 7.1 is only in experimental and so makes us nervous15:51
cjwatsonwe *could* include it15:51
meebeydirecthex: there is but that would need ugly conditional calls in mono's rules file15:51
meebeyto pass the internal-mono parameter differently depending on the used debhelper version15:51
meebeyis there sane way to check the debhelper version within debian/rules?15:52
meebeymono's source package is already full of hacks, so another hack wouldn't be too hurtful :-P15:54
Laneymeebey: dpkg-query -f "${Version}" -W debhelper15:58
meebeyLaney: with '' that looks good16:02
meebeyLaney: thanks16:02
=== dendrobates- is now known as dendrobates
meebeywrapped with dpkg --compare-version I guess thats a decent way to check for dh >= 7.116:02
tkamppeterpitti, I have prepared an SRU for bug 277404 and bug 303691 (in the cups package). The previous SRU of CUPS is still in -proposed. Should I already upload the new SRU?16:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 277404 in cups "hp laserjet postscript text print does not print some characters" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27740416:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 303691 in cups "Intrepid, print broken with Minolta PagePro 8L printer" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/30369116:05
pittitkamppeter: just commit it for now, the current one should go to -updates first; then we can pile up more fixes16:05
tkamppeterWhat do you mean with "commit". The changes for Jaunty are already committed to the BZR. Now I mean the upload of the package 1.3.9-2ubuntu8.16:07
pittitkamppeter: to the intrepid barnch16:07
pittitkamppeter: lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/cups/intrepid/16:08
tkamppeterpitti, there I do not have access (core-dev only). Can you take the debdiff from one of the bugs and commit? Thanks/\16:08
pittitkamppeter: you can read from it and put your changes to your own branch, then I just need to pull from that16:09
pittitkamppeter: i. e. "bzr get lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/cups/intrepid/", commit, "bzr push lp:~till-kamppeter/cups/intrepid"16:09
Necrosancjwatson: ping16:30
cjwatsonNecrosan: yes?16:31
pittitkamppeter: want to join the desktop team meeting? (#ubuntu-desktop)16:32
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
apwtedg, looking at what is in bzr and what is in jaunty i don't think your bzr tree is up to date16:34
tedgapw: :(  Someone must have updated it out of tree then.16:35
apwyour tree and the changed in the apt-get source seems to diverge at 2.24.0-0ubuntu8, the tip there is ubuntu1216:35
apwso should i sync that first?16:35
apwsadly there are a few commits there and as there is no real info it may be hard to split them into real commits16:35
tedgapw: Sure, that'd be great.16:36
cjwatsonyou could fetch the individual revisions of the source package along the way from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager16:36
cjwatsonthose would probably be good enough as individual commits16:36
apwok will load the changed up into a branch off 0ubuntu8 ...16:36
cjwatson(not perfect obviously)16:36
apwcjwatson, ahh yes, better than trying to do it manually16:36
apwthanks for that gem16:36
cjwatsonjames_w also has a 'bzr import-dsc' tool that can automate the import from source packages16:37
cjwatsonthough it requires slightly careful driving sometimes16:37
ScottKmvo: Compiz is going to need a rebuild against kde 4.2.0 for libplasma changes.  I didn't do it with the others, because I thought it best to leave it to someone more focused  on the package.  The new kde4libs hasn't built yet on lpia, powerpc, ia64, or hppa due to uninstallable build-deps.  In other packages I just versioned the libplasma-dev build-dep to 4.2.0 so it wouldn't build against the old one accidentally.16:42
Riddellcompiz uses plasma?16:43
mvoScottK: thanks, I will update the bzr tree and upload it16:44
mvothat is the kde side of compiz :) I have little clue about that16:45
ScottKRiddell: Yeah.  Compiz-kde does.16:49
ScottKmvo: I did about a dozen and a half packages last night and today and so far all but one were good as no change rebuilds.16:49
mvoScottK: excellent, thanks16:50
=== BenC1 is now known as BenC
=== smarter_ is now known as smarter
ScottKcjwatson: I've been following your edits of the archive-reorg spec on the wiki.  Is this idea of essentially promoting all MOTU to core-dev something that there is a hard consensus around or do you think it's still up for discussion?17:04
cjwatsonit may not be clear from the spec as written, but the current consensus as I understand it is to have a transition process where many MOTU are given full archive access and many are moved into layer-specific teams17:05
cjwatsonScottK: do you have an objection to it?17:06
ScottKcjwatson: It sounded to me from reading the spec like it was all MOTU and automatic.17:06
ScottKcjwatson: That I'd object too.17:06
cjwatson~[6~[6~that's an error17:06
cjwatson(sorry for load-induced garbage)17:07
ScottKNo problem.17:07
ScottKI guess i don't understand why we don't keep MOTU as a generalist entry point to deal with all unseeded packages.17:07
ScottKThat's essentially what MOTU covers now.17:07
* ogra collects the garbage for possible later use 17:07
cjwatsonoh, the spec does not call for the disbandment of MOTU17:08
ScottKWell that's another misimpression I have then.17:08
cjwatsonit's still clearly useful as a mentoring organisation, particularly for generalists17:08
cjwatsonbut I don't think it needs to have lower access control than current ubuntu-core-dev in order to achieve that17:08
cjwatsonin other words, people who only want to work on packages not in any layer are entirely free to continue to do so, and I expect will17:09
ScottKRight, but we generally have expected core-dev to understand more about integration and care for the whole distro.17:10
cjwatsonbut I don't think that *has* to be the only identity of MOTU; even at the moment it seems to be more than that17:10
ScottKIt seems then that we are losing that disctinction then.17:10
cjwatsonwell, I think that distinction has been blurred over time anyway17:10
cjwatsonMOTU's application process involves much more teaching than it used to17:10
cjwatsonand we already expect MOTU to exercise a degree of discretion, don't we?17:11
ScottKA degree.17:11
=== bluesmoke is now known as Amaranth
cjwatsonI don't think that the boundary between main and universe is anywhere close to the line between "this stuff is fairly isolated" and "this stuff will break the world if you get it wrong" any more17:12
cjwatsonwhich makes it ... well, a bit artificial17:12
cjwatsonand maybe it isn't worth trying to enforce that in the same way any more17:12
pittitkamppeter (CC: Keybuk, seb128): Do you see any chance of the printer applet being rewritten in C, or be spawned on demand? it imposes quite a high startup cost when you log into GNOME17:13
ScottKI do think a half-step to general upload rights (i.e. unseeded) is a good idea.17:13
ScottKI'm less concerned about what we call it.17:13
pittijockey does as well, I'll address that in jaunty17:13
ion_pitti: If you’re going to rewrite jockey in C, you might find the code in hardware-connected useful.17:13
cjwatsonScottK: my perception is that there are very few packages for which I would be concerned about granting access to most of today's MOTU, given the number of eyeballs on jaunty today and the opportunity for social approaches to mistakes17:15
pittiion_: no, not that, just don't start it by default each and every time17:15
cjwatsonScottK: I don't think that necessarily means that everyone is obliged to work on everything, any more than today's MOTU necessarily work on everything to which they technically have access17:16
ion_pitti: Ah17:16
cjwatsonand so it's a question of how much time we lose due to the distinction drawn four and a half years ago, when Ubuntu was a much simpler place17:16
ScottKcjwatson: Right, well there's a transition issue to deal with.17:17
ScottKIf we conclude that someone is not ready for general acces, but doesn't have a particular focus interest, do they have no upload rights?17:17
cjwatsonI'm not sure, but that's a good question17:18
cjwatsonScottK: I've made a FIXME note in the spec17:19
ScottKWhen I think about the path in the future to core-dev, I can see a specialist working to branch out, but I don't know how a generalist could get limited upload rights to prove themselves in the current plan.17:19
ScottKcjwatson: Thanks.17:19
ScottKAt least as I understand it anyway.17:20
cjwatsonthe original notion of limited rights to universe while we figured out trust issues was based, I think, on the notion that most users would only install packages from main17:20
cjwatsonI'm not sure that that's true any more, and so I wonder whether this is actually a good proving groundd17:21
cjwatsongiven that it does offer very direct access to users' systems17:21
cjwatsonand hence a level of trust that, in practice, is really not that far off core ...17:21
ScottKI think a slight redefinition covers it then.17:23
ScottKcore is packages installed by default and not in packages installed on selected systems.17:24
ScottKI do think we need a route in for generalists.17:24
ScottKIf we don't then we've traded one problem for the opposite.17:24
cjwatsonthing is, I don't actually think the opposite problem is a problem17:25
cjwatsonDebian does not have people wildly uploading rubbish, and to be honest, even though the Debian process is overly lengthy, there are plenty of Debian developers who are fairly amateur17:26
cjwatson(and also of course lots of excellent ones!)17:26
ScottKBut Debian has a tradition of people being focused on specific packages that they get to know well.17:26
ScottKPeople understand there is a higher threshold for not messing up when you NMU someone elses package.17:26
ScottKThat same extra consideration doesn't exist in Ubuntu.17:27
cjwatson"installed by default" is a far too movable feast in Ubuntu17:27
cjwatsonI don't think it's something we can base access control on, not to mention that many Ubuntu users have a hit-list of things they install anyway right after installation17:28
ScottKI'll just take a step back and say we ought to have a clear path for generalists.17:29
cjwatsonso, route in for generalists: what aren't we solving by means of sponsorship, PPAs, branch reviews, and our existing mentoring facilities?17:29
ScottKI guess if you view the entire notion of limited upload rights first as obsolete, nothing.17:29
cjwatsonwell, I'm exploring17:30
cjwatsonnot based on the conviction that limited upload rights *are* obsolete, but based on removing the conviction that they're necessary17:30
apwtedg, how is one meant to use this bzr checkout of gnome-power ?  i had expected d/r patch to make me some source but it does not17:32
ScottKTaking that one step further then, if you're willing to go straight from no upload rights to full (almost) upload rights for generalists and trust them not to mess where they don't know enough, why have teams and limits at all?17:32
ScottKI'm not sure that the case doesn't apply equally well to specialists.17:32
cjwatsonI guess because the process for gaining access to those teams could potentially be simpler and shorter17:33
ScottKjust exploring ....17:33
tedgapw: I copy the debian directory in to the source tree cp -a branch/debian gnome-power-manager-2.24.2/17:33
cjwatsonyou only have to investigate their specialist abilities, and not so much their ability to cope when thrown something they don't understand17:33
apwtedg, hmmm ok17:33
apwthis bzr integration really isn't that smooth is it17:34
ScottKOTOH, if I'm a server guy working on a server app not seeded, I don't need access to upload everything.17:34
cjwatsonapw: once we deploy bzr across the board, we will not be using this scheme where the branch doesn't come with all the source17:34
tedgapw: Well, yes and no.  If you use the package-import.u.c stuff you get everything directly, but then there's no separation between upstream VCS, upstream tarball, and the ubuntu package.17:35
cjwatsonapw: we'll just be putting all the upstream source in the branch17:35
apwi would have expected this branch to be a branch off your upstream branch, and as a result have the source17:35
apwbut no matter, if thats how it works, its how it works17:35
cjwatsonthat's how the new world order will work17:35
apwjust not at allll obvious17:35
seb128if you don't have very fast internet access bad luck for you17:36
cjwatsonthe only downside is performance, but that's outweighed by avoiding all the setup problems17:36
* tedg is still resisting the new world order17:36
cjwatsonseb128: I'm on a 512KB link (at best, often much slower) *shrug*17:36
cjwatsonso don't talk to me about slow links :)17:36
cjwatsonerr, I mean 512kilobits17:36
cjwatsonit was 100 kilobits for a while there17:36
seb128cjwatson: which means getting a non trivial source is going to take a while compared to apt-get17:37
cjwatsonI'm not a fast-link fascist, I'm a make-the-tools-not-suck fascist17:37
cjwatsonseb128: I'd gladly trade that for the time spent helping people battle with the tools and being turned off Ubuntu development as a result17:38
ScottKcjwatson: Thanks for the discussion.  I'll sit back and see how the spec evolves ....17:38
cjwatsonnot to mention the time spent battling with the tools myself17:38
seb128cjwatson: apt-get source, change, dput is not that much battle, for me it's using bzr which is the battle ... but let's see how it goes when we have an established workflow17:39
cjwatsonfor non-trivial source packages, it's going to take a while to test-build anyway and after the initial pull everything is much faster thereafter; and I can always go and get a cup of coffee17:39
cjwatsonapt-get source, fiddle about to put debian/ into the right place, test-build, curse when I discover there are some files missing from the checkout, etc.17:39
cjwatsonI wouldn't say it was a battle if it weren't for me, every time I try to work with a package that isn't full-source17:39
seb128I don't mean the debian directory in bzr, I mean what we have now when not using bzr ;-)17:39
seb128I just find work harder to do every time I've to change a package in bzr17:40
cjwatsonpersonally I'd like to explore putting .bzr in the source package to resolve that problem, perhaps using dpkg-source v317:40
seb128that would be nice17:40
seb128once of the issue right now is that we don't have standard locations17:41
cjwatsonJames' work is solving that17:41
cjwatsononce we get the necessary LP facilities17:41
seb128ie, you apt-get source, get a bzr get command to use, use it, ran bzr commit and bzr push and you get an error saying you need a location17:41
seb128which is usually where I get stucked and ask mvo for help to figure what location to use ;-)17:41
cjwatsonwe'll be able to run 'bzr checkout lp:ubuntu/+trunk/packagename' or similar17:41
cjwatsonsame schema for everything17:42
ScottKseb128: I recently learned about bzr push :parent.17:42
ScottKThat pushes it back where you got it from.17:42
cjwatson'bzr push' without arguments does that if you only just did 'bzr get'17:42
seb128cjwatson: no it doesn't17:42
seb128not when using get, maybe when using checkout or mirror or something else17:43
seb128I know some are alias for others but I usually use get which is what apt-get source suggest and get stucked17:43
seb128btw speaking about bzr17:44
cjwatsonhmm, ok, I thought it did17:44
cjwatsonI always use checkout if I possibly can17:44
seb128why does running "bzr get lp:~mvo/+junk/compact-dpkg-status" wants me to enter my ssh passphrase and how do I tell it I just want an anonymous checkout?17:44
cjwatsondon't you run an ssh agent?17:45
seb128I do17:45
seb128but I would expect that to not use http to do the checkout17:45
cjwatsonlp always uses bzr+ssh or sftp; I think bzr+ssh is actually faster than http for checkout, although I could be wrong and haven't timed it recently17:46
seb128hum, ok17:46
cjwatsonat any rate I'd expect it to be potentially faster since it's using a customised protocol17:46
cjwatsonobviously there are the extra round-trips for auth but that should be dominated by large branches17:47
cjwatsonseems pretty similar here for lp:~ubuntu-desktop/vte/ubuntu vs. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/vte/ubuntu, though17:47
cjwatsonat any rate, it would be possible to add that feature but it would require modifying the bzr launchpad plugin17:48
seb128that's not really an issue, I was just curious about why the ssh key was used I though http was used for checkouts17:49
seb128apt-get source suggests "bzr get http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/update-manager/main"17:49
seb128that might be why push doesn't work17:49
seb128it's suggesting the http url17:49
cjwatsonthat's entirely dependent on what's in debian/control17:50
cjwatsonyou can use debcheckout -a <package>, which always gives you an authenticated checkout if it can17:51
cjwatsonwhich means you have the best of both worlds - a URL in debian/control that you can paste into a web browser, and an easy way to get an authenticated checkout if you want17:51
seb128I guess most of my issues using bzr is just that I'm not really used to this worklow and we don't really have one consistant way to do things17:52
cjwatsonI agree that the inconsistency is a pain17:52
cjwatsonfrom my POV, the things that are inconsistent from what I'm used to are a pain, of course, so I will express annoyance at different things17:52
cjwatsone.g. I swear out loud pretty much every time I have to deal with anything called 90_autoreconf.patch :-)17:53
seb128I'm pondering changing those to run autotools are build time17:53
seb128but I'm not sure that would be better, that leads to another class of issues17:53
seb128ie, things stop working when a new libtool gets uploaded and ftbfs17:54
seb128hum, bzr is still slooow17:54
seb128apt-get source update-manager -> 23 seconds17:55
seb128bzr -> 6 minutes 22 seconds17:56
cjwatsonjames_w: this all reminds me, should we make debuild -S run bzr bd -S if appropriate (.bzr-builddeb exists, plugin available)?17:57
cjwatsonthat's one irregularity in my workflow at the moment17:57
apwtedg, ok i have pulled in all of the changes that have been applied to gnome power via direct uploads, and pushed them as a branch and proposed it for merge: https://code.launchpad.net/~apw/gnome-power/incorporate-direct-uploads/+merge/316017:57
seb128ie, 16 times slower17:57
apwtedg, i would note that you have rebased to a newer upstream since this branch was made so the merge will be hairy17:57
cjwatsonbzr is certainly never going to be even close to as fast as apt-get source for me, since I have a local mirror of the latter; but I don't usually find that it gets in my way that much, I can always go and triage a few more bugs or something17:58
seb128well, I know I find the 7-8 minutes to get gtk to be a while already17:59
seb128but it would take over an hour using bzr17:59
cjwatsonhow many people bzr get gtk when they don't work on it regularly though?17:59
Keybukseb128: provided you've done the switch to libtool 2.2 you should be fine17:59
Keybukthe whole reason I pushed hard to get to 2.2 was that libtool 1.5 was the last of the tools that didn't believe in upgradability18:00
seb128Keybuk: I'm not, I still downgrade to libtool 1.5 to autoreconf gtk because otherwise it doesn't build18:00
Keybukautoconf 2.6x, automake 1.6+, libtool 2.2 and gettext all should upgrade gracefully18:00
cjwatsonseb128: re autoreconf.patch, I think the main thing that causes me problems is that often they aren't actually autoreconf, and don't describe the command you need to run to update them in the patch18:00
cjwatsonso I run autoreconf -iv and get an enormous diff from hell18:00
seb128cjwatson: we often have autoconf changes which are just an autoconf run to update configure due to lpi changes18:01
cjwatson(sometimes just because diff hunks are in a different order or something, but it's pretty hard to tell)18:01
cjwatsonseb128: right, but they usually don't say that in the patch so how am I supposed to know :(18:01
seb128otherwise we used to run aclocal, autoconf, automake, etc in order but we learnt to use autoreconf recently and use that now ;-)18:01
Keybukseb128: you shouldn't _have_ to run autoreconf for those ;)18:01
Keybukjust build-depend on autoconf18:01
seb128cjwatson: yeah, we should document the patches18:02
seb128the naming gives an hint, autoconf against autoreconf18:02
james_wcjwatson: we could. I'm not sure it's worth the "wtf?" for those who don't really realise what's going on though.18:02
james_wcjwatson: and the two tools aren't completely command-line compatible.18:03
seb128Keybuk: well, what I said before, I'm considering changing that but I'm not convinced by running autotools at build time, that can lead to surprises18:03
james_wcjwatson: is it just that you are used to typing "debuild -S", or something else?18:03
cjwatsonjames_w: yes18:03
cjwatson(the former)18:03
cjwatsonoh, also, I think that in general devscripts should be able to do the right thing across the board18:05
seb128Keybuk: where autotools patches made with a known to work version are using not an issue ;-)18:05
Keybukseb128: if it leads to surprises, I promise to investigate and fix any autotools bugs I find18:05
cjwatsonwhich seems to suggest that if it sees a tree containing .bzr-builddeb it should build it appropriate18:05
james_wcjwatson: I don't think we can guarantee that, so it's a tricky path to start down18:05
cjwatsonI like the idea of devscripts as unifying wrapper scripts, which by and large they are18:05
seb128Keybuk: ok good to know, the issues are usually not autotools though bug configure doing stupids things which used to work but are not documented and stop working in some new version18:05
cjwatsonit could even refuse to build something containing .bzr-builddeb and tell you what to do, although that wouldn't be optimal18:05
seb128bug configure -> but configures18:05
Keybukseb128: true, but I've found that most software is quite easy to fix18:05
cjwatsonthe problem I have is finger macros that do debuild -S and then I find some cruft in the debdiff and have to rebuild18:05
Keybukadmittedly, sometimes you have to repackage the tarball :-/18:05
seb128Keybuk: the "m4_ifdef([LT_OUTPUT], [LT_OUTPUT])" trick you gave me the other time seems to be usually a good way to fix issues18:07
* Keybuk can't remember what that one was for ;)18:07
seb128gtk has still something which it doesn't like in libtool2 though, I need to investigate, I might ping you back about it18:07
seb128I still downgrade to libtool 1.5 to relibtoolize this one for now18:08
KeybukI remember18:10
Keybukthat was extraordinarily cunning of me ;)18:10
Keybuknot only will that make libtool 2.2 generally work like 1.5 with its early libtool generation,18:13
Keybukbut it will still work if someone uses libtool 1.5,18:13
Keybuk*and* if someone has both, it'll make them use 2.218:14
KeybukI deserve some kind of award for that one <g>18:14
liwhmm. I'm renaming package foo to bar. foo has a state file I need to copy to the new location in bar. bar Conflicts and Replaces foo. shouldn't bar's prerm script be called by dpkg during the upgrade?18:14
cjwatsonwhy would bar's prerm script be called, rather than foo's?18:17
cjwatsonat no point in this procedure is bar removed ...18:17
cjwatson(or even an old version of bar "removed" in order to unpack a new one)18:18
liwthat's what I thought Debian Policy 6.6, point 3, subpoint 3 says (http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html)18:18
cjwatsonare we looking at the same point?18:19
cjwatson"Otherwise (i.e., the package was completely purged): "18:19
liw"Conflictor's-prerm remove in-favour package new-version"18:20
cjwatsondo you mean point 2 subpoint 3?18:20
liwer, point 2, subpoint 318:20
cjwatsonah. that's talking about the package being removed, not the package being installed. the term "conflictor" is a bit confusing.18:20
cjwatsonbut the ambiguity is cleared up at the top of that point, I think ('If a "conflicting" package is being removed at the same time ...')18:21
liwok, so I don't need to (rather, can't) do anything in bar's prerm18:21
cjwatsondoes foo remove its state file on remove, rather than on purge?18:22
liwonly on purge18:23
cjwatsonyou can probably retrieve it in bar's preinst then18:23
ScottKcjwatson: WRT bar and debuild, it seems to me that changinging what it's done into something different would be a suprise.  Wouldn't it be better to just have a different command for doing it the bzr way, that way the finger macros don't get tempted?18:23
cjwatsonI say "probably" because if the user told their package manager to purge foo at the same time, I don't think the ordering of foo purge vs. bar unpack is defined18:24
cjwatsonScottK: well, at least in the (simple) cases I've encountered, the only effective difference is to exclude .bzr-builddeb from the source package18:24
cjwatsonScottK: but debuild is *supposed* to be a clever wrapper that figures out what to do and does the right thing18:24
liwcjwatson, in this case I'm happy enough with a best-case effort to save the file in question, so that's OK18:25
cjwatsonScottK: the surprise, for me, is when it doesn't :-)18:25
cjwatsonif I wanted a stupid tool I'd just use dpkg-buildpackage18:25
ScottKAs long as we preserve the non-bzr case to work correctly, I'm happy.18:25
ScottKRight. ;-)18:25
* pochu feels stupid - I use dpkg-buildpackage a lot ;)18:25
cody-somervilleScottK, bzr merge makes doing merges from Debian super easy18:26
cody-somervilleScottK, Have you tried it?18:26
ScottKcody-somerville: I haven't.18:26
ScottKI don't generally have a lot of trouble with the output of MoM/DaD.18:26
cjwatsonpochu: stupid tool doesn't imply stupid user/developer :-)18:27
cody-somervilleScottK, its nice when there is no output of MoM or DaD18:28
cody-somervilleScottK, ie. new upstream releases that are in Debian SVN but not uploaded because Debian is frozen18:28
[swb]hey guys, wondered if anyone would be interested in trying to reproduce a bug in gnome panel behaviour for me18:33
[swb]its pretty annoying18:33
ScottK[swb]: #ubuntu-bugs is probably a better channel for that.18:34
[swb]ahh ok18:34
iulian[swb]: You might want to file a bug as well.18:35
=== calc_ is now known as calc
Necrosancjwatson: doh,still around?18:45
cjwatsonNecrosan: yes?18:49
Necrosanill paste log of aptitude18:55
didrockscjwatson: thanks for the sponsorship :)18:58
=== warp10_ is now known as warp10
=== DktrKranz2 is now known as DktrKranz
Robysave the pervs! http://www.ihateyounatalie.com/?id=117553819:54
cjwatsoncoo, I didn't know the XFS lots-of-NULs bug had been fixed19:59
cjwatsongood news for anyone trying to use apt on it, I guess ;-)19:59
ion_Oh, neat.20:02
directhexhmph, mere mortals aren't meant to get neat features from XFS. that's what SGI support contracts are for!20:06
slangasekcjwatson: wow, they're just getting rid of all of XFS's distinguishing features these days, aren't they? :)20:09
lfaraoneHi, are we going to have gnome 2.26 in jaunty?20:10
cjwatsonI would assume so since Ubuntu releases always come with the newest version of GNOME20:11
lfaraonecjwatson: ok, so when will .26 prerel packages start shipping in Jaunty? (before FF I hope, I have packages which depend on bindings there)20:12
pochulfaraone: they are already in the archive20:18
pochu2.25.5 mostly20:18
lfaraonepochu: the spesific package I'm eyeing is http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/python-gnome2-desktop20:21
lfaraonepochu: "Package: python-gnome2-desktop (2.24.1-0ubuntu1) "20:21
seb128lfaraone: what is the question exactly? I just joined the channel20:23
lfaraoneseb128: When is the python-gnome2-desktop containing the sugar evince bindings (which are shipping in 2.26, or so upstream sugar tells me) going to land in Jaunty? (well before FF I hope)20:24
seb128lfaraone: when upstream roll a tarball which has the code changes20:25
lfaraoneseb128: ok, arn't .25 tarballs already out for tyhat package?20:26
seb128lfaraone: there is a 2.25.1 which has no interesting changes (ie a waf build system update, a small fix and a configure option bugfix)20:26
lfaraoneseb128: kk, understood.20:27
Chipzzwaf - because auto* doesn't work20:27
* Chipzz sighs20:27
Amaranthcmake - because auto* is slow :)20:28
ChipzzAmaranth: nuke libtool if you don't want slow20:29
Chipzzor annoying and pointless .la files20:29
AmaranthChipzz: If I could figure out how20:29
AmaranthI've given up on understanding that system, I just copy/paste from other people :P20:30
ChipzzI was not saying auto* was easy :)20:30
Chipzzit does, however, get a lot of stuff right that I doubt other systems do20:30
ChipzzI wonder how many of the alternatives to auto* can do out-of-tree building20:31
AmaranthChipzz: That's all cmake can do20:37
superm1slangasek, i've cleaned up most of hotkey-setup and moved things into hal-info (in Ubuntu and submitted upstream).  I forget what the contingency plan was for thinkpad stuff though, so i'll leave that bit to you thinkpad owners okay?20:37
slangaseksuperm1: hrm, I was still working on getting a bzr repo set up so that we'd have fine-grained regression tracking20:41
slangaseksuperm1: I don't suppose you did something like that while cleaning it up? :)20:42
superm1slangasek, no... can't say I did.  I hand checked each of the lines to make sure they were in an FDI file20:42
slangasekso what's left in the new hotkey-setup package - ibm.hk and thinkpad-keys.c?20:43
slangasekand lenovo.hk20:43
superm1slangasek, that and a call to set DOS on Intel or AMD /proc/acpid/video/VID* to 7 (enable keys)20:43
* lfaraone pokes GNOME with a sharp stick.20:44
slangaseksuperm1: alrighty20:44
lfaraoneseb128: any chance I could get you to include some SVN'd patches that arn't yet tarballed? :P20:44
superm1slangasek, i'm not sure why that needs to be done in an init script though about enabling hotkeys for video switching.  would probably make more sense to just set the kernel to default to them enabled20:44
slangaseksuperm1: probably; but twiddling in an init script is a lot more lightweight than getting a kernel patch accepted upstream, so I guess it was meant to be a stopgap and was never followed up20:45
superm1slangasek, yeah probably in that case20:46
seb128lfaraone: that can always be done but that doesn't seem to be anything really useful in an unstable distribution where nothing uses the new code yet20:50
seb128lfaraone: next tarballs are due monday I would rather wait for them to roll a tarball20:50
lfaraoneseb128: well, we _would_ be using it if we could upload the package.20:50
seb128lfaraone: we being?20:51
lfaraoneseb128: but we can't do that until evince is up to date.20:51
lfaraoneseb128: ubuntu-sugarteam.20:51
seb128lfaraone: you are welcome to work on the change and request sponsoring20:51
slangasekbryce: huh, does bug #217908 really affect 8 different source packages?20:51
ubottuLaunchpad bug 217908 in xserver-xorg-video-openchrome "Images in Firefox and Opera are extremely pixeled when zoomed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/21790820:51
seb128lfaraone: the ubuntu desktop team is already overworked so we will not take on extra work only to backport something a few days before a new tarball20:52
bryceslangasek: yuck20:52
lfaraoneseb128: ok, sorry.20:52
mathiazslangasek: are aware of bug 321689 - which is a result of having -proposed packages in 8.04.2 -server isos?20:52
ubottuLaunchpad bug 321689 in openldap2.3 "openldap (slapd) installation fails" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32168920:52
slangasekmathiaz: yes, the openldap2.3 SRU has just been pushed in response20:53
seb128lfaraone: nothing to be sorry about I'm just telling you I'm not interested to work on the change now but I'm happy to review work if you want to work on it an request sponsoring20:53
seb128lfaraone: otherwise wait a week or so for the update20:53
mathiazslangasek: ok. that should fix the problem for openldap.20:54
mathiazslangasek: are we respinning the isos?20:54
slangasekmathiaz: no, we're trying to get all the SRUs that crept on from -proposed validated and pushed out instead20:55
mathiazslangasek: ok.20:55
bryceslangasek: yeah someone went package crazy there20:55
slangaseksince that's something that needs to happen anyway, and rolling new ISOs won't roll back the installs that are already in the wild20:55
slangasekbryce: yes, yes they did :-)20:56
bryceslangasek: guessing they suspected it to be an X problem but didn't figure out which package, so just shotgunned a bunch of X packages21:02
slangasekbryce: and then someone marked the bug 'confirmed' on half of them? :)21:02
brycecan I blame my scripts?  ;-)21:03
slangaseksure :)21:03
bryceslangasek: wow this is an interesting bug21:27
bryceslangasek: okaaay, I think I got it21:35
bryceslangasek: in this case it probably is alright for this to be open against all these drivers21:35
brycethe issue is that there needs to be a repeat mode implemented in each of the video drivers to display images correctly21:36
brycecurrently they say they support it, but they don't do so properly, which confuses higher level things like cairo21:37
slangasekbryce: ah - so should the bug against cairo and xulrunner be closed...?21:37
bryceanyway, it looks like Thomas Jaeger has this bug pretty well under control, I don't think we need to tweak it21:37
bryceslangasek: I think we can leave it as is; those will also need to be touched once the drivers are fixed up21:37
slangasekbryce: darn. :)  ok, what should I do with the jaunty nomination - is this a realistic target for jaunty?21:38
bryceit makes for a messy bug, but it's a messy problem, and it seems people are making the best of it21:38
bryceI think it is realistic; already Tom posted one patch, it sounds like he plans to get patches done for each driver, and then we can switch cairo21:39
bryceit probably doesn't really matter to have jaunty nominations for all of this21:40
bryceand the hardy nominations are probably right out...  this doesn't feel like a viable sru thing; it requires twiddling too many different packages21:40
slangasekwell, I'd like to either approve or decline the nomination, and that applies to all packages with an open task - we can 'wontfix' any that aren't jaunty targets afterwards if necessary21:41
bryceslangasek: I'd say decline them all.21:41
bryceprogress can just be tracked with the regular non-targeted tasks21:41
brycemost of these are obscure drivers anyway, who cares about -i128 :-)21:42
slangasekbryce: done, thanks21:46
bryceI'll update the description too21:48
slangasekdid jaunty change something wrt touchpad handling?21:49
slangasekmy laptop's left mouse button has gone batshit suddenly; not sure if it's hardware or software21:50
slangasekonly the one on the touchpad is affected, the nipple-complementing one works fine21:51
brycelots of fixes have gone into input stuff, and we did just put in a new xserver recently, so I'd guess it's software more likely21:51
bryceheh, you'd be more happy if it were hardware, eh?  ;-)21:51
slangaseknot really, but at least then it would just be me :)21:52
brycebooting an intrepid livecd and seeing if it can be reproduced would probably help rule in or out the recent changes (assuming you can reproduce it reliably boot-to-boot currently)21:54
slangasekI haven't yet rebooted since noticing the problem; part of my ongoing love for gnome session saving21:55
=== bluesmoke_ is now known as Amaranth
ebroderScottK: have you had a chance to look at #321763 yet?22:14
=== nhandler_ is now known as nhandler
slangasekseb128: sent a follow-up to bug #267018; I'm wondering why you thought it was fixed in jaunty, maybe it would help to talk through this in realtime?22:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 267018 in gnome-settings-daemon "regression: g-s-d no longer handles Fn+F7 as xrandr --auto" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26701822:37
seb128slangasek: because the gnome-settings-daemon 2.25.3 NEWS lists an add support for fn-f7 keys in the list of changes22:39
slangasekseb128: I don't know what that refers to, but the default keybinding for the xrandr plugin is still wrong22:40
slangasekAFAICS it should be 'XF86Display', not 0xdc or whatever22:40
seb128slangasek: http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-settings-daemon?view=revision&revision=62222:41
slangasekseb128: well, I think that's unrelated to this bug, though maybe it's related to the bug I'm about to file regarding a regression in the behavior of the xrandr plugin22:42
seb128which one?22:43
seb128slangasek: try desactiving the xrandr keybinding, that's an ubuntu patch and it might be hijacking the new upstream option22:45
seb128slangasek: wait22:45
seb128slangasek: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=56871322:45
slangasekseb128: now when I press XF86Display in jaunty, video comes up on the external monitor, with the same resolution as the LCD instead of with the preferred resolution as shown by xrandr22:45
ubottuError: Could not parse XML returned by Gnome: timed out (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/xml.cgi?id=568713)22:46
ubottuError: Could not parse XML returned by Gnome: timed out (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/xml.cgi?id=568713)22:46
seb128stupid bugzilla is being slow again apparently22:46
seb128slangasek: ok so the keybinding does something?22:46
slangasekseb128: if I set the keybinding to XF86Display, it does something that's wrong and a regression from intrepid22:47
slangasekif I delete the override of the keybinding, it does nothing22:47
slangasekI think I've /also/ seen 568713, but that's a separate bug22:47
seb128slangasek: the patch makes the keybinding call xrandr --auto22:47
slangasekthat's a patch that's in the Ubuntu package?22:48
seb128slangasek: apt-get source gnome-settings-daemon and look to 19_extra_keybindings.patch22:48
slangasekthe behavior of g-s-d does *not* match the behavior of xrandr --auto22:48
seb128what upstream does seems to be activating the clone mode when using the keybinding22:48
ion_What key is XF86Display?22:49
slangasekion_: whichever key the input layer says it is22:50
slangasekon thinkpads, Fn+F722:50
ion_I mean typically. Ah, that one.22:50
slangasekseb128: strange; the behavior of g-s-d definitely doesn't match the behavior of xrandr --auto22:51
seb128slangasek: maybe the upstream code triggers first but that's weird that disabling the keybinding would stop the action then22:52
slangasekhow is the upstream code triggered?22:53
slgcewhere do i find su source code? til now i just found sudo ones22:54
seb128slangasek: I'm looking to that, I would say that gnome-settings-daemon listen for key events22:55
slangasekslgce: su is part of the 'login' package.22:56
slangasekseb128: bug #322111 filed for this22:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 322111 in gnome-settings-daemon "gnome-settings-daemon xrandr plugin gets wrong resolution on external monitor" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32211122:56
slgceslangasek, thank you, I'll take a look right now22:56
seb128slangasek: http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-settings-daemon/trunk/plugins/xrandr/gsd-xrandr-manager.c?view=markup&pathrev=62222:57
seb128gsd_xrandr_manager_init ()22:57
seb128 guint keyval = gdk_keyval_from_name (VIDEO_KEYSYM);22:57
seb128#define VIDEO_KEYSYM "XF86Display"22:57
slangasekseb128: hmm, ok22:57
seb128slangasek: doing fn-f7 on my laptop crashes g-s-d which seems to indicate that I run into the bug indicated before22:59
slangasekyeah, I can trigger that bug too by pressing Fn+F7 repeatedly :)23:00
seb128ok, which means the upstream code get called23:00
slangasekbut, if I disable the gconf keybinding, whatever that upstream code does has no effect here23:00
seb128that's because it crashes ;-)23:01
seb128ah, if you disable it23:01
seb128that's weird23:01
seb128why would that impact on the upstream code23:01
slangasekno, I know when g-s-d crashes or not, I can tell by the color of my window borders. :)23:01
slangasekperhaps what's happening is that xrandr --auto is being called first, and *then* the upstream code runs and screws up the resolution of the external monitor?23:02
slangasekbut the upstream code by itself fails to ever do anything to bring up the external monitor?23:02
seb128that could be23:02
seb128I'll upload a version which drops the ubuntu change and include the svn fix tomorrow23:02
seb128so we will have a better idea of what the upstream code do23:03
slangasekseb128: well, in a quick reading of the upstream code, it says that it's meant to cycle through "profiles" - so where would I define these profiles?23:04
slangasekthat's something new, that doesn't seem to be connected to the existing configuration tools23:04
seb128slangasek: http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-settings-daemon/trunk/plugins/xrandr/gsd-xrandr-manager.c?view=markup&pathrev=622 look to generate_fn_f7_configs (GsdXrandrManager *mgr)23:05
seb128slangasek: it does xinerama, clone, etc configs there23:05
slangasekso maybe it's just crashing before it gets to the profile that does what I want23:06
seb128there is no hurry and I was about to go to bed but I will look at it tomorrow23:07
seb128feel free to backport the svn fix and drop the patch and upload if you want to do that now23:07
slangasekyes, don't let me keep you - good night!23:07
seb128otherwise wait for the update tomorrow23:07
slangasekok, I'll test that here if I get a chance23:07
seb128thanks and good evening to you ;-)23:07
=== sabdfl1 is now known as sabdfl
ScottKebroder: Not yet.  On my list for tonight.23:36
ebroderGreat. Let me know if you need anything23:36
junyeri'm looking for anyone who might deal with the autofs and autofs5 packages23:41
junyer(mostly concerning the autofs v4 EOL)23:41

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