[03:06] <Elitedatabase> hey could some on help me with ubuntu
[03:07] <Ahmuck_Jr> Elitedatabase: #ubuntu channel
[03:07] <Ahmuck_Jr> however, what is your problem?
[03:07] <Elitedatabase> I see prepare disk its give me 2 thing there
[03:08] <Elitedatabase> Guide use entire disk and manual
[03:08] <Elitedatabase> but I rly have windows xp and I'm trying to us doul boot
[03:09] <Elitedatabase> what should I do
[03:09] <Ahmuck_Jr> godo question.  there is a dual boot tutorial
[03:09] <Ahmuck_Jr> let me see if i can find it
[03:09] <Ahmuck_Jr> by the way, ur native language is english?
[03:10] <Elitedatabase> I try but all they show me is auto dualboot
[03:10] <Elitedatabase> and I dont have the chose
[03:10] <Ahmuck_Jr> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WindowsDualBoot?action=show&redirect=WindowsDualBootHowTo
[03:10] <Elitedatabase> I only have two choise
[03:11] <Ahmuck_Jr> u should have a ubuntu choice as well as a windows choice.  do you?
[03:11] <Elitedatabase> I only have 2 choice
[03:12] <Elitedatabase> with they are use entire disk and manual
[03:12] <Elitedatabase> and I dont finde the manual tutorial
[03:12] <Elitedatabase> and I dont see the manual totorial
[03:13] <Ahmuck_Jr> automatic will re-size your partition and then install ubuntu in the new space.  however you MUST have defraged your windows partition before trying to do this
[03:13] <Ahmuck_Jr> it's all there in that link
[03:13] <Ahmuck_Jr> r u on windows xp or vista?
[03:13] <Elitedatabase> so to do automatix you have to defraged
[03:13] <Ahmuck_Jr> have you backed up your data?
[03:14] <Ahmuck_Jr> to do auto, u need to defrag xp
[03:14] <Elitedatabase> and then that i'll see that choise automatic re-size
[03:15] <Ahmuck_Jr> #2 under the ubuntu installation
[03:15] <Ahmuck_Jr> correct
[03:15] <Elitedatabase> o I understand now
[03:15] <Ahmuck_Jr> read through the tutorial first
[03:15] <Ahmuck_Jr> before you start anything
[03:15] <Elitedatabase> thank you ahmuck I'll
[03:15] <Ahmuck_Jr> your welcom
[03:15] <Elitedatabase> Thank you very much for the info
[03:15] <Elitedatabase> see you latetr
[03:57] <elitedatabase> hey Ahmuck are you there
[03:57] <elitedatabase> hey any one in here
[03:59] <elitedatabase> any one in here could help me
[04:01] <elitedatabase> hey could any one help me with ubuntu
[17:20] <nubae> greets LaserJock
[17:22] <Ahmuck> good morning
[17:23] <nubae> good evening
[17:23] <LaserJock> hi nubae
[17:30] <nubae> did u see my mail I sent to the edubuntu-devel list
[17:30] <nubae> it was held... because I bcced it there I believe
[17:31] <LaserJock> nubae: what was it about?
[17:34] <nubae> teh educator talk I had in Graz
[17:35] <LaserJock> no, I don't think I got that
[17:35] <nubae> concerning what would be nice in edu apps
[17:35] <nubae> mostly in suar
[17:35] <nubae> sugar
[17:35] <LaserJock> can you resend directly?
[17:35] <nubae> ok, I'll send now
[17:35] <LaserJock> thanks
[17:45] <nubae> LaserJock: read it?
[17:46] <LaserJock> nubae: I haven't gotten anything yet
[17:46] <nubae> hmmm sent it to both lists, users and devel
[17:48] <Ahmuck> nice nubae
[17:48] <nubae> oh... btw, I was at an olpc-deployment meeting yesterday
[17:48] <nubae> and there is great enthusiasm for building a ubuntu based server to manage the XOs
[17:49] <nubae> I thought it might make sense to work within the edubuntu server seed infrastructure
[17:49] <nubae> and it would automatically pull in more devs
[17:50] <nubae> to edubuntu
[18:01] <LaserJock> nubae: yeah perhaps
[18:31] <LaserJock> nubae: regarding math quizzes
[18:32] <LaserJock> nubae: what if you had students paired up and had one student write the "question" while the other answers
[18:35] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Hey hey!  I've been doing more digging into the sabayon thing.  Hopefully I'll have a patch by the weekend.
[18:36] <LaserJock> sbalneav: yeah, what kind of things have you been finding?
[18:37] <LaserJock> hi RichEd
[18:40] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Well, I read through the source, and I think what's happened is that sabayon expects the panels to be named with certain defaults, and I think Ubuntu changes the default.
[18:40] <sbalneav> I think the better solution would be to actually READ the list of panel objects, and iterate through them
[18:40] <LaserJock> sbalneav: ok, that's along the lines of what I was thinking, I didn't know what specifically was doing it but that makes sense
[18:41] <sbalneav> but I'm goingt to verify that tonight.
[18:42] <LaserJock> sbalneav: what time do you expect to be on tonight?
[18:43] <alkisg> Does sabayon do a simple copy/dump of gconf settings, or does it try to parse them with some intelligence?
[18:44] <LaserJock> alkisg: were you the one who wrote a pyqt user manager app?
[18:44] <alkisg> erm, the correct term would by "trying to write", and I started with pygtk...
[18:45] <LaserJock> k
[18:45] <alkisg> ...but I'm still thinking of switching to pyqt, I'm not sure! :)
[18:45] <LaserJock> and was it a thin-client manager or just user management in general?
[18:45] <alkisg> Anyone interested in helping out? :)
[18:46] <alkisg> In general. The plan would be to select a bunch of users and execute scripts on them
[18:46] <LaserJock> well, the other day I talked with the Ubuntu Gnome maintainer about the User and Groups tool
[18:46] <LaserJock> alkisg: what about adding/remove users and groups?
[18:46] <alkisg> It would nicely integrate to the tool, but I don't know if I'll have the time to implement it properly for nis/ldap etc
[18:47] <LaserJock> right, well, basically the Gnome maintainer said that Users and Groups is essentially dead/depricated
[18:47] <LaserJock> in the sense that Debian/Ubuntu are the only major distros using it
[18:48] <alkisg> What do other gnome distros use?
[18:48] <LaserJock> Fedora, openSUSE, etc. write their own system management tools
[18:48] <LaserJock> and so there's very little effort going into Gnome's tools
[18:48] <alkisg> ...and can't any of them be upgraded to become cross-distro?
[18:48] <LaserJock> no
[18:48] <LaserJock> perhaps Fedora's new one but I can't find it so I don't know
[18:49] <alkisg> ...so basically, a new tool would be the best here.
[18:49] <LaserJock> so, I'm wondering if we should start working on our own
[18:49] <LaserJock> and if it works we can contribute it upstream
[18:50] <alkisg> Well, I'm totally interested. I don't know python nor gtk (!!!) but I have a lot of programming experience, I think I'll be able to produce something better than what users-admin is now.
[18:50] <alkisg> Are you in for programming / organization / something?
[18:52] <LaserJock> I think we should discuss design and specifications on edubuntu-devel
[18:52] <LaserJock> to get some more input on what's needed
[18:52] <alkisg> It could also replace sabayon for simple tasks, like putting some things into the panels, setting a wallpaper, clearing firefox cache etc.
[18:53] <LaserJock> hmm
[18:53] <alkisg> LaserJock: I have a pretty clear idea on what it's needed, at least for the simple administration tasks that teachers need. I've talked to several teachers about it.
[18:53] <LaserJock> for me conceptionally I would like to separate user management from setting managment
[18:53] <alkisg> But I have absolutely no idea about "real admins".
[18:55] <alkisg> But most admins would need to apply settings for certain users, not all users
[18:55] <alkisg> So a user-list would be needed to select the users (or groups) on which the settings would be applied
[18:57] <LaserJock> right
[18:57] <LaserJock> a settings management tool obviously needs to know who to apply the settings to
[18:57] <LaserJock> but that's fairly trivial
[18:57] <alkisg> Simple examples: Set a specific firefox start page for all the teachers. Clear the thumbnail cache for all students. Change the group for all students that passed the class.
[18:57] <LaserJock> what we're in need of is a good to to manage the actual users and groups
[18:59] <alkisg> I see. I was looking at kuser the other day, it supports ldap, nis and stuff. I've never even used ldap, I don't think I'm ready to implement something that difficult. Something a little better than users-admin, OK, but not as good as kuser.
[18:59] <LaserJock> one step at a time :-)
[18:59] <LaserJock> I have no idea how to do it at this moment either
[19:00] <LaserJock> but I know how to read users/groups from python, that's a good first step
[19:00] <LaserJock> we then need to figure out how to create/modify
[19:00] <LaserJock> one suggestion was to simply wrap useradd, etc.
[19:00] <alkisg> I already have a listbox filled with the groups/users, but I don't think I did it with the proper way
[19:01] <alkisg> I directly parsed the files, but I think there are functions for this.
[19:01] <Lns> alkisg: getent comes to mind
[19:01] <alkisg> And I didn't know if I should use /etc/login.defs or adduser.conf or system-gnome-tools settings to decide which are system users and which simple users
[19:02] <alkisg> At least in C there are lower level functions than getent
[19:02] <sbalneav> getent *should* be used, because getent will obey the libnss chain.
[19:03] <alkisg> sbalneav: I'll have to agree with you, as I don't know what libnss is :)
[19:03] <sbalneav> Personally, I think there are only 3 things that are needed.
[19:03] <alkisg> I just saw a C function in a man page that claimed to read user accounts
[19:03] <alkisg> I don't remember the name, though
[19:04] <sbalneav> 1) Sabayon should be fixed, so as to work correctly.  It's there, and a good idea, so re-inventing the wheel shouldn't be necessary.
[19:04] <sbalneav> 2) We need to modify the standard Xsession set of tools to:
[19:05] <sbalneav>   a) Allow easy addition of user-based scripts which could be installed in /usr/share/...
[19:05] <sbalneav>   b) allow for *logout* scripts, allowing the same as above
[19:06] <sbalneav>   c) a set of tools (command line at first, similar to update-rc.d, with possibly a gui front end) to allow administrators to install/reorder/remove Xsession scripts
[19:07] <sbalneav> 3) A User/Group gui tool that's got a solid plug-in architechture, to allow for local-db, LDAP, what-have-you admin.
[19:08] <sbalneav> All 3 of these tasks are relatively(!) simple, and would be certainly easier than trying to write an it-does-everything-including-wash-your-socks application.
[19:08] <sbalneav> More to the point, 1 and 2 could easily be moved upstream.
[19:08] <ogra> but you would end up with clean socks !!
[19:08] <ogra> dont underestimate that !
[19:08] <sbalneav> I'm working on 1) atm :)
[19:08] <sbalneav> ogra: wear sandals :)
[19:08] <ogra> heh
[19:09] <sbalneav> That's my opinion, FWIW
[19:10] <ogra> apart from the socks i'm all with you
[19:10] <sbalneav> ogra: ok, we'll create a separate update-socks.sh app for that.
[19:10] <ogra> it could go into the plugin dir ... yeah :)
[19:11] <alkisg> About (3), I'm sure we all agree. I don't know how much sabayon can help, though.
[19:11] <sbalneav> Well, sabayon handles the desktop management.
[19:11] <alkisg> I didn't use it because well, it didn't work, but how can it help in modifying settings of existing users?
[19:11] <sbalneav> i.e. panel/background/etc.
[19:12] <sbalneav> alkisg: make settings mandatory
[19:12] <ogra> lockdown ...
[19:12] <LaserJock> alkisg: sabayon applies a specific "profile" to specific users
[19:12] <LaserJock> the profile can include a lot of things
[19:12] <alkisg> What is a profile? A collection of gconf settings?
[19:12] <LaserJock> and more
[19:12] <sbalneav> yes
[19:12] <sbalneav> and more
[19:12] <LaserJock> pessulus does gconf settings
[19:12] <alkisg> And it just puts them to the mandatory gconf branch?
[19:12] <sbalneav> It *can*, yes.
[19:12] <LaserJock> alkisg: it essentually unzips a new $HOME at login
[19:13] <alkisg> And how does it select the settings? E.g. I logon as sabayon user, I try to only put a language applet in the panel, but I end up applying 30 settings instead of one, can this be a problem?
[19:14] <alkisg> Because if it was task based, it would be much more clean
[19:14] <LaserJock> alkisg: you edit the profile in a nested X session and it tracks the changes you make
[19:14] <alkisg> E.g. select 10 users, goto the scripts menu, and select "insert language applet"
[19:14] <LaserJock> alkisg: you can choose to ignore some changes or not, it gives you the option
[19:14] <alkisg> So the user sees a list of 100 gconf settings, and selects the ones he wants?
[19:15] <alkisg> It doesn't sound easy...
[19:15] <sbalneav> It gives you a window with a standard desktop, via xnest
[19:15] <sbalneav> This window has a desktop in it, with the two panels, etc.
[19:15] <sbalneav> If you want to add an applet to the panel, you just... add it.
[19:16] <LaserJock> alkisg: you start with a default desktop and you mess around with what you want, including gconf settings
[19:16] <sbalneav> it doesn't *get* any easier.
[19:16] <LaserJock> then you save the profile
[19:16] <LaserJock> and then you can choose which users to apply it to
[19:16] <alkisg> I still think it's the wrong approach
[19:16] <alkisg> But I need to find the correct examples to express it for you... :(
[19:17] <LaserJock> I think it's great for what it does
[19:17] <LaserJock> but it may not be exactly what you want
[19:17] <alkisg> LaserJock: it's basically the same as creating a new user, and copying all gconf settings to the mandatory or default profile.
[19:17] <LaserJock> no, it does way more than gconf
[19:18] <alkisg> This is the wrong approach because a lot of settings get written that the user doesn't know about
[19:18] <sbalneav> what user?
[19:19] <alkisg> E.g. today I tried this: http://library.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/stable/gconf-8.html.en
[19:19] <alkisg> The proposed gnome way to modify the panels
[19:19] <alkisg> I ended up with 100 settings in the default profile, but I only wanted 1 single extra applet
[19:20] <alkisg> So e.g. in the new Ubuntu version which would have a new applet (fusa or whatever), my profile would be wrong
[19:20] <alkisg> But if I specifically wrote a script for it, then it would only add this one panel, and it would do exactly what I wanted
[19:21] <LaserJock> alkisg: right
[19:21] <alkisg> And if the users-admin tool (3) had a support for scripts, there could be a collection of e.g. 1000 scripts with a seaching facility to enable me to do the little things I wanted
[19:21] <LaserJock> but sabayon is for really tweaking things around, not scripting things together
[19:21] <sbalneav> Well, what that page proposes is exporting an ENTIRE GCONF TREE, modifying one thing, then re-importing it.
[19:22] <LaserJock> right, and those scripts have to be updated, there's only so much they can do, and they could easily conflict
[19:22] <alkisg> sbalneav: isn't that what sabayon does with gconf settings?
[19:22] <sbalneav> so all the stuff that's part of gconf's defaults will get copied out too.
[19:22] <sbalneav> No.
[19:22] <alkisg> LaserJock: yes, but the scripts could be maintained by different people. Look at gimp scripts for example.
[19:23] <alkisg> sbalneav: is there some way for me to run sabayon, to see it first hand?
[19:23] <sbalneav> Sigh
[19:23] <sbalneav> sabayon *is broken*, I'm working *on fixing it*
[19:23] <alkisg> I _can_ apply a patch, if you have some thing...
[19:23] <sbalneav> i.e. my point 1
[19:24] <sbalneav> I don't have anything definite as of yet.
[19:24] <alkisg> OK, I thought it was broken but it was working a little... :) :D
[19:24] <LaserJock> alkisg: but in this case there isn't any maintanence, you just make the changes you want to make and save it
[19:24] <sbalneav> So, let me ask you a question.
[19:25] <alkisg> LaserJock: could you rephare that? I didn't get it
[19:25] <sbalneav> You say you don't like sabayon/etc because it will "change too much". i.e. 100's of things.
[19:25] <alkisg> *rephrase
[19:25] <alkisg> sbalneav: yes, and it's also difficult to apply to a specific set of users
[19:25] <sbalneav> So how do you propose to add "just one thing" to the panel?
[19:25] <alkisg> (but that's what I think from what I've read, I haven't even run the program yet)
[19:26] <alkisg> sbalneav: with a script specifically written for this one thing
[19:26] <sbalneav> You can apply by one user, a group of defined users, or by unix-group
[19:26] <LaserJock> alkisg: with sabayon you don't have to have lots of people maintaining scripts
[19:26] <sbalneav> what script?
[19:26] <LaserJock> alkisg: you just fire up sabayon, make your changes, and save it
[19:26] <alkisg> sbalneav: can I select 2 groups, 3 users and clear their firefox cache?
[19:26] <LaserJock> alkisg: it's all GUI and nice
[19:27] <sbalneav> You can apply that profile to 2 groups and 3 users, yes.
[19:27] <alkisg> OK, I'll have to see it, I thought that this couldn't be done.
[19:27] <sbalneav> You can set firefox settings as part of sabayon.
[19:28] <sbalneav> you can't do a "clear now" thing, since sabayon profiles are only run at login.
[19:28] <alkisg> The scripts I'm talking about would be python or shell scripts developed by anyone. If they were good, they would be accepted to the main application.
[19:28] <Lns> with Sabayon, how does it juggle user-defined settings and "profile defined" settings, say, if the user has their own bookmarks, and then you add a bookmark through the profile they are a part of... ?
[19:28] <alkisg> sbalneav: so I can't copy a file to a set of users right now...
[19:28] <LaserJock> alkisg: right, we're just saying that with sabayon there are 0 scripts
[19:28] <sbalneav> No.
[19:29] <sbalneav> Sabayon profiles are run *at login*
[19:29] <LaserJock> Lns: the user only get's the profile
[19:29] <LaserJock> *gets
[19:29] <alkisg> LaserJock: yes, but you can't also guarantee that the changes are what the admin wants. They're GUI based changes, not task based changes.
[19:30] <alkisg> So if a user-specific path gets entered somewhere in gconf, sabayon will blindly copy it
[19:30] <Lns> LaserJock: so you're basically saying that the profiles that sabayon creates are mandatory, and overwrite the users' defined settings.
[19:30] <LaserJock> alkisg: you can review the changes if you like
[19:30] <sbalneav> Lns: yes.
[19:30] <LaserJock> Lns: yes, essentially
[19:31] <alkisg> LaserJock: for simple admins, looking though 100 gconf settings isn't something useful, I think...
[19:31] <LaserJock> they don't have to
[19:31] <alkisg> How does one "review the changes"?
[19:31] <sbalneav> alkisg: They *don't look at* 100 gconf settings.  They look at a desktop
[19:31] <LaserJock> alkisg: all I can say is wait until we get sabayon running and try it out
[19:32] <sbalneav> make it look the way they want for the profile
[19:32] <LaserJock> alkisg: there is a GUI window for it
[19:32] <sbalneav> then apply it to whatever users/groups they want.
[19:32] <LaserJock> most stuff is just manipulating the actual desktop
[19:32] <Lns> I can see the benefit of using Sabayon, and also not using it - depending on your setup.
[19:32] <LaserJock> Lns: right
[19:32] <alkisg> sbalneav: OK, I can't find a good example, so an imaginary one: A sabayon users gets created, the admin sets the wallpaper to /home/sabayonuser/pictures/nicepicture.jpg. Then sabayon copies that setting to all users. Of course they won't see the picture.
[19:33] <alkisg> What I mean is that the admin sees the GUI, but it doesn't see what happens behind the scenes
[19:33] <sbalneav> alkisg: So tell me, using your task based tool:
[19:33] <LaserJock> alkisg: what happens in the GUI I believe is what the user will see
[19:34] <alkisg> LaserJock: not if it involves user-specific paths
[19:34] <sbalneav> admin sets background to /home/tasktool/pictures/nicepicture.jpg
[19:34] <sbalneav> How are the users going to see it any better?
[19:34] <sbalneav> In sabayon, if admin sets to /home/shareddir/pictures/nicepicture.jpg it will work.
[19:34] <Lns> I'd think Sabayon creates these profiles in a dir that are readable by the users that the profile applies to... .?
[19:34] <alkisg> sbalneav: if the admin selects the picture, it will be there, because it doesn't rely on a temporary user's paths
[19:35] <alkisg> Ah, sabayon has a real path for its user?
[19:35] <alkisg> Not a temporary one?
[19:35] <sbalneav> alkisg: what if the admin sets the picture out of *his or her own directory*?
[19:36] <sbalneav> i.e. admin sees nice picture, downloads it to home dir, and sets that background with the tool
[19:36] <sbalneav> it's no different.
[19:36] <alkisg> sbalneav: I'm not saying it will be dummy proof...
[19:36] <sbalneav> Dude.
[19:36] <alkisg> I need to find a good example... :(
[19:37] <sbalneav> You've come up with a completly specious example, you say "see, this won't work in sabayon", but it *wont work any better for you*
[19:37] <sbalneav> Lets talk practicalities.
[19:37] <sbalneav> 1) sabayon's here today, it just needs work.
[19:37] <sbalneav> A few more hours of love, and we may have *something*
[19:38] <sbalneav> compared to your idea, which a) isn't written b) has no delivery date.
[19:38] <alkisg> You take an applet and stick it to the right of the panel. This is gui based. This doesn't do what you want, because if a user logs in on a bigger screen, he will see the applet to the middle of the panel. The gui way used coordinates, and that was the problem. A task-based tool would use the "right-align" gconf setting. Something like that, but again, I can't find a good example.
[19:39] <LaserJock> alkisg: right, there's no reason you can't have both
[19:39] <sbalneav> If we're going to improve jaunty, we should focus on fixing things we have, and are just needing fixes.  As opposed to spending our time trying to rewrite yet another management app from scratch
[19:39] <LaserJock> alkisg: sabayon already does that with pessulus
[19:40] <sbalneav> Certainly, this is open source, and you're welcome to do anything you want.  However, for jaunty, if we could get at least 1 and 2 on my list done, we'd have SOMETHING that the admins could use for management.  Which is better than we have now.
[19:40] <LaserJock> I think the point here is we can talk about several different management schemes and lots of different management needs
[19:40] <LaserJock> they're not all or nothing
[19:40] <LaserJock> right now sabayon is a very advanced tool that's broken
[19:40] <LaserJock> we need to fix it
[19:41] <LaserJock> thanks to sbalneav we might get it fixed soonish
[19:41] <Lns> I think maybe what alkisg is looking for is more of an equiv to M$'s "Group Policy Editor".
[19:41] <LaserJock> completely orthogonal to that would be the scripting support
[19:41] <alkisg> Lns, no, I haven't seen anything equievelant in either linux or windows
[19:41] <Lns> alkisg: ok scratch that. ;)
[19:42] <LaserJock> so we need to define what tasks/tools we want to have
[19:42] <alkisg> Well, I need to see sabayon in order to decide if it covers my needs or not. So, sbalneav, what's the best way to help?
[19:42] <LaserJock> what current apps work to fulfil those
[19:42] <LaserJock> and which are missing
[19:42] <Lns> LaserJock: i can def. help with the list, i have a largeish one from some of my techs
[19:43] <alkisg> Lns, could I see that list? I was looking for such a list myself...
[19:44] <sbalneav> alkisg: I'm hoping to spend more time on it tonight, so I may have a patch to try for tomorrow.
[19:44] <sbalneav> testing's important.
[19:44] <sbalneav> we NEED to make sure it works for jaunty.
[19:44] <sbalneav> brb, workping.
[19:44] <alkisg> sbalneav: if I could get a running version, I could even submit patches for some bugs, but I don't think I'm able to help until it's in a running state (I've looked at the sources a little)
[19:48] <LaserJock> Lns, alkisg: let's start a wiki page on wiki.ubuntu.com on spec'ing out user management needs
[19:48] <alkisg> LaserJock: good idea.
[19:49] <Lns> alkisg: * Shared Firefox bookmarks between groups of users * Create custom XDG menus (edubuntu-menus integration?) * Easy ACLs * are a few
[19:49] <Lns> LaserJock: cool
[19:50] <alkisg> Lns, wow, that's not a sabayon task! :)
[19:50] <alkisg> LaserJock, also, I once told you about an ubuntu/ltsp installation manual that I wrote for the Greek ministry of education, and you told me to notify you when it was published. It's here: http://ts.sch.gr/ts/downloadsDetails.do?action=downloadsDetails&itemId=238811 - but it's temporarily offline.
[19:53] <LaserJock> alkisg: ok
[19:53] <LaserJock> I think we really need work on getting resources on wiki.ubuntu.com/help.ubuntu.com/edubuntu.org
[19:54] <LaserJock> a number of you guys have been doing great work, but often it ends up on wikis or website scattered around
[19:54] <LaserJock> we need to collect those together
[19:56] <Lns> LaserJock: agreed
[21:47] <LaserJock> nubae: did you see http://cass.no-ip.com/~cassidy/blog/index.php/post/2009/01/24/Desktop-integration-of-the-Abiword-collaboration
[22:33] <Ruben_____> somebody from spain please?
[22:54] <Ahmuck> !spain
[23:06] <nothingman> hi, all