| === _neversfelde is now known as neversfelde | ||
| === nhandler_ is now known as nhandler | ||
| === thekorn_ is now known as thekorn | ||
| === Mamarok_ is now known as Mamarok | ||
| === asac_ is now known as asac | ||
| === davmor2 is now known as davmor2-away | ||
| === davmor2-away is now known as davmor2 | ||
| === _neversfelde is now known as neversfelde | ||
| robbiew | #startmeeting | 16:00 |
|---|---|---|
| MootBot | Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew. | 16:00 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 16:00 |
| robbiew | hey Mooty...what's up? | 16:00 |
| robbiew | lol | 16:00 |
| * mvo waves | 16:00 | |
| evand | hi | 16:01 |
| TheMuso | greetings | 16:01 |
| Keybuk | robbiew: I haven't set you my activity summary yet, sorry | 16:02 |
| robbiew | no worries...you aren't alone ;) | 16:02 |
| cjwatson | here | 16:03 |
| robbiew | james_w? | 16:03 |
| james_w | hi! | 16:04 |
| robbiew | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/0128#Agenda | 16:04 |
| robbiew | liw is out....doko? | 16:04 |
| slangasek | morning | 16:04 |
| robbiew | ok...can get started | 16:05 |
| doko_ | here | 16:05 |
| robbiew | has everyone gotten a chance to post and/or comment on the distro sprint team agenda? | 16:05 |
| slangasek | == Sponsorship == | 16:05 |
| slangasek | * missed this week; will do double-duty next week | 16:05 |
| slangasek | == Misc == | 16:05 |
| slangasek | gar damn mouse | 16:06 |
| robbiew | http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Jaunty/Foundations | 16:06 |
| MootBot | LINK received: http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Jaunty/Foundations | 16:06 |
| robbiew | slangasek: no worries :) | 16:06 |
| robbiew | "cruft remover/update-manager quirks code merge coding session [liw, mvo] " | 16:06 |
| robbiew | this will obviously not happen...at least in person | 16:07 |
| cjwatson | oh, is liw not going to be in Berlin either? :( | 16:07 |
| Keybuk | robbiew: yes, I've added a few bits | 16:07 |
| evand | What still needs to be done for GRUB UUID support? | 16:07 |
| robbiew | liw injured his back | 16:07 |
| Keybuk | :-( | 16:07 |
| Keybuk | is liw ok? | 16:07 |
| doko_ | yes, added | 16:07 |
| evand | out of curiosity | 16:07 |
| robbiew | Keybuk: yes | 16:07 |
| cjwatson | evand: it locates the root filesystem using UUIDs; but it doesn't locate its own stage1.5 that way | 16:08 |
| robbiew | Keybuk: drugged and resting | 16:08 |
| mvo | :( poor liw | 16:08 |
| evand | right, apologies you mentioned that before | 16:08 |
| cjwatson | which I believe is the last remaining piece until grub no longer really cares about drive order | 16:08 |
| cjwatson | I was reminded about this by a rather inflammatory forums thread recently, and we really ought to clear it up | 16:08 |
| evand | indeed | 16:09 |
| cjwatson | do send my regards to liw if you're speaking with him | 16:09 |
| robbiew | there's also a cross-team agenda | 16:09 |
| robbiew | http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Jaunty/GlobalAgenda | 16:09 |
| MootBot | LINK received: http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Sprints/Jaunty/GlobalAgenda | 16:09 |
| robbiew | cjwatson: will do | 16:09 |
| * Keybuk spent an entertaining hour dealing with GRUB being unable to find stage 2 (I think) the other day | 16:09 | |
| robbiew | I didn't really put much on the global agenda...dendrobates should be updating with an EC2 demo | 16:09 |
| robbiew | in any case, we're roomies...so I can drag him into our room if needed :P | 16:10 |
| robbiew | Keybuk: it was mentioned that perhaps we do an overview of boot performance work...interested? | 16:10 |
| robbiew | I didn't agree to it, or anything | 16:11 |
| robbiew | maybe a rehearsal for FOSDEM presentation ;) | 16:11 |
| Keybuk | robbiew: sure | 16:12 |
| robbiew | cool...I'll let randa know | 16:12 |
| * robbiew has a presentation! whew | 16:12 | |
| robbiew | lol | 16:12 |
| robbiew | moving along...Feature Status | 16:13 |
| robbiew | http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Foundations/9.04 | 16:13 |
| MootBot | LINK received: http://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuPlatform/Foundations/9.04 | 16:13 |
| * Keybuk must finish his fosdem presentation | 16:13 | |
| robbiew | need Specs at least ready for Review by this Friday | 16:13 |
| Keybuk | robbiew: my spec is ready for Review ;) | 16:13 |
| robbiew | if you don't think you can make it...let me know | 16:13 |
| robbiew | also, would like to know when you expect to deliver | 16:14 |
| robbiew | i.e. which milestone | 16:14 |
| slangasek | my specs will be there | 16:15 |
| slangasek | as dubious as that might seem at the moment :-) | 16:15 |
| robbiew | ok, thnx | 16:15 |
| robbiew | lol | 16:15 |
| Keybuk | robbiew: I guess I'll finish the last major changes for beta | 16:15 |
| robbiew | Keybuk: okay | 16:15 |
| robbiew | next is the usual | 16:16 |
| robbiew | bugs...bugs...bugs | 16:16 |
| robbiew | 9 bugs for Alpha 4...nice | 16:16 |
| slangasek | I may supplement those numbers before Friday, yet | 16:17 |
| slangasek | :) | 16:17 |
| robbiew | heh | 16:17 |
| robbiew | figured | 16:17 |
| robbiew | nice work on the buglist...everything under Foundations has an assignee | 16:17 |
| robbiew | except | 16:17 |
| robbiew | 78552 | 16:18 |
| robbiew | http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/+bug/78552 | 16:18 |
| MootBot | LINK received: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/+bug/78552 | 16:18 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 78552 in grub "/sbin/update-grub complains about being run instead of /usr/sbin/update-grub" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 16:18 |
| cjwatson | I'll have a bunfight with Keybuk about 273189 at the sprint :) | 16:18 |
| Keybuk | see, this is why warnings are pointless ;) | 16:19 |
| Keybuk | you should just break things and move on | 16:19 |
| robbiew | heh | 16:19 |
| cjwatson | or, in the case of update-grub, leave it alone since it was just fine where it was ;-) | 16:19 |
| Keybuk | well, yes, it does surprise me that it's not in /sbin | 16:19 |
| cjwatson | in that case the warning is silly because it discourages being called based on $PATH | 16:20 |
| cjwatson | I think it was because it used something in /usr | 16:20 |
| Keybuk | oh, I know | 16:20 |
| Keybuk | awk | 16:20 |
| cjwatson | anyway the move discussion was incredibly tedious and I have no wish to repeat it, but anyone could hoover up the warning; I think there might have been a relevant unmerged change in Debian, even | 16:20 |
| robbiew | it's just a warning, right? | 16:22 |
| robbiew | I mean...does anything actually break? | 16:22 |
| slangasek | the reason the warning there is because they wanted to eventually move the script out of /sbin | 16:22 |
| robbiew | ah | 16:23 |
| slangasek | so Debian's plan is to eventually make /sbin/update-grub go away, and then the warning becomes an error on any systems still using it | 16:23 |
| cjwatson | right, in practice it false-positives on people with /sbin ahead of /usr/sbin in $PATH too though | 16:23 |
| cjwatson | and also /etc/kernel-img.conf hasn't got reliably upgraded | 16:23 |
| cjwatson | so there is *some* genuine cleanup to do | 16:23 |
| slangasek | right; if /etc/kernel-img.conf were reliably upgrading there shouldn't have been a need for a warning in the first place :) | 16:24 |
| cjwatson | but the cost of leaving it there is approximately nil so meh. I think it's just on the list because it's annoying | 16:24 |
| TheMuso | Yay. Seems OpenOffice wants to crash whenever I load the room list for the sprint, and orca is running... :S | 16:24 |
| robbiew | cjwatson: so is this something the kernel team should address? | 16:25 |
| slangasek | nah, it's pretty foundation-y | 16:25 |
| robbiew | ok | 16:25 |
| Keybuk | is it? | 16:25 |
| Keybuk | grub is pretty kernel-y :) | 16:25 |
| slangasek | Keybuk: like udev is? | 16:25 |
| Keybuk | they touched it last | 16:25 |
| slangasek | I prefer my shell scripts to the kernel team's ;) | 16:25 |
| slangasek | i.e., I'll take this bug if no one else is volunteering | 16:26 |
| Keybuk | kernel people think userspace is an annoying botherance - we wouldn't trust them with things like udev ;) | 16:26 |
| robbiew | slangasek: thanks | 16:26 |
| Keybuk | slangasek: I thought colin and I agreed to look at it? | 16:26 |
| robbiew | oh | 16:26 |
| robbiew | :) | 16:26 |
| slangasek | oh? I thought that was another bug # | 16:26 |
| robbiew | "cjwatson: I'll have a bunfight with Keybuk about 273189 at the sprint " | 16:27 |
| robbiew | Keybuk ^ | 16:27 |
| cjwatson | that's a different unassigned bug on the list | 16:27 |
| Keybuk | oh! | 16:27 |
| cjwatson | that's the "non-ASCII characters busted at console login" bug | 16:28 |
| Keybuk | I'm happy to do the update-grub fixing | 16:28 |
| Keybuk | if slangasek doesn't want to ;) | 16:28 |
| * robbiew lets slangasek and Keybuk fight over it ;) | 16:28 | |
| Keybuk | we could PAIR PROGRAM! | 16:28 |
| slangasek | nah, I'll take it, currently none of the other bugs on that list are mine | 16:28 |
| slangasek | Keybuk: EXTREME POSIX SH | 16:28 |
| robbiew | slangasek: thanks | 16:29 |
| robbiew | Keybuk: uh overkill :P | 16:29 |
| evand | Be sure to insert some design patterns into that code. | 16:29 |
| robbiew | next is the Sponsorship Queue...our good friend :) | 16:29 |
| Keybuk | robbiew: sorry, flashback to my days on the launchpad team there | 16:29 |
| robbiew | seems to be getting a little long | 16:30 |
| cjwatson | I did a double shift last week due to slacking the week before | 16:30 |
| slangasek | I notice there are a lot of items lingering on the sponsorship queue that are patches for our Special Packages that core-dev don't have commit rights to | 16:30 |
| Keybuk | slangasek: oh? | 16:30 |
| slangasek | Keybuk: mozilla, etc | 16:31 |
| === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach | ||
| Keybuk | yeah, now that I'm always checking bzr first, packages which I can't commit to really irritate me | 16:31 |
| slangasek | I think my complaint about this at UDS was lost in the noise of the plenary :) | 16:32 |
| slangasek | anyway | 16:33 |
| robbiew | slangasek: dholbach seems to have returned ;) | 16:33 |
| robbiew | heh | 16:33 |
| robbiew | well that's all I really have for this meeting...Bad News is there | 16:33 |
| robbiew | Good news...go Steve and everyone else who helped with 8.04.2 | 16:34 |
| robbiew | whoohoo! :P | 16:34 |
| robbiew | AOB? | 16:34 |
| cjwatson | Bad news: pitti and I are currently fighting with ext3 file recovery after a bit of an, er, incident on cocoplum | 16:34 |
| dholbach | robbiew: how can I help? | 16:34 |
| TheMuso | For those who are interested, dmraid will likely be moved into mdadm at some point, or at least the dmraid metadata support will. | 16:34 |
| robbiew | cjwatson: oh? | 16:35 |
| cjwatson | so the archive is currently at reduced functionality; we're well on our way to recovery though, and will deal with the backups that should have existed afterwards | 16:35 |
| evand | Should we avoid uploads until further notice? | 16:35 |
| cjwatson | feel free to upload | 16:35 |
| evand | ok | 16:35 |
| cjwatson | it just took out some of the auxiliary scripts | 16:35 |
| robbiew | dholbach: slangasek had a remark about the sponsorship queue... | 16:35 |
| dholbach | slangasek: OK? :) | 16:36 |
| robbiew | dholbach: just mentioned your name...and to bring it up with you ;) | 16:36 |
| slangasek | so as far as 8.04.2, we had a bit of bad news there as well and some packages from -proposed wound up going out the door - I'm in the process of trying to get all of those packages through the SRU process so we can re-snapshot | 16:36 |
| slangasek | help with the SRU verification process would be appreciated | 16:36 |
| cjwatson | did you ever find out what went wrong there? | 16:37 |
| slangasek | not with any certainty | 16:37 |
| slangasek | debian-cd was changed back to enable PROPOSED again; I don't remember having done that | 16:38 |
| cjwatson | nor I | 16:38 |
| slangasek | so either I did and forgot, or somebody else did and isn't fessing up, or something went wrong in a merge when the checkout was updated | 16:38 |
| robbiew | are there logs for things like this | 16:39 |
| robbiew | ? | 16:39 |
| james_w | you're using an SVN checkout? | 16:39 |
| evand | bzr blame? | 16:39 |
| slangasek | james_w: ugh no, bzr | 16:39 |
| slangasek | evand: it was a local change that was never committed | 16:39 |
| evand | ah, ouch | 16:40 |
| slangasek | (because we toggle PROPOSED on and off throughout the point release cycle, I didn't bother committing) | 16:40 |
| cjwatson | in future we probably should, I guess | 16:40 |
| cjwatson | would give us that tracking | 16:40 |
| slangasek | so us CD folks will just have to take collective blame in this case | 16:40 |
| slangasek | or I can take all the blame for not having committed it :) | 16:40 |
| * robbiew avoids the "do we need an incident report" as...I think we don't ;) | 16:40 | |
| robbiew | slangasek: heh | 16:41 |
| slangasek | technically, we didn't introduce any regressions in -updates :P | 16:41 |
| robbiew | ok...so any "GOOD" news? | 16:41 |
| robbiew | I got shirts :P | 16:41 |
| james_w | we're off to Berlin :-) | 16:42 |
| robbiew | hmm...cold | 16:42 |
| dholbach | yeeeeehaw! | 16:42 |
| robbiew | but I suppose that's good | 16:42 |
| dholbach | it's -2°C right now | 16:42 |
| * mvo shivers already | 16:42 | |
| robbiew | keeps the beer from getting warm ;) | 16:42 |
| robbiew | #endmeeting | 16:42 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 10:42. | 16:42 |
| TheMuso | Ok that is cold. | 16:42 |
| robbiew | don't need that in the logs :P | 16:42 |
| TheMuso | thanks | 16:42 |
| evand | thanks | 16:43 |
| mvo | heh :) | 16:43 |
| robbiew | TheMuso has to change seasons! | 16:43 |
| mvo | thanks! | 16:43 |
| Keybuk | yeah... | 16:43 |
| Keybuk | why don't we hold the January sprint in Sydney next year? :) | 16:43 |
| slangasek | thanks, all. :) | 16:43 |
| robbiew | or the Bahamas | 16:43 |
| robbiew | lol | 16:43 |
| robbiew | thanks all | 16:43 |
| slangasek | Ubuntu Off Shore | 16:43 |
| TheMuso | lol | 16:43 |
| Keybuk | we've still never had a sprint on the Isle of Man | 16:44 |
| evand | UDS Sealand? | 16:46 |
| davmor2 | evand: they'll have the bandwidth :) | 16:46 |
| davmor2 | Hello | 16:56 |
| * ara_ waves | 16:56 | |
| heno | hello | 16:58 |
| pedro_ | hello everybody | 16:58 |
| schwuk | hi | 16:58 |
| bdmurray | hi | 16:59 |
| heno | hey everyone | 17:00 |
| heno | let's start | 17:00 |
| heno | #startmeeting | 17:00 |
| MootBot | Meeting started at 11:00. The chair is heno. | 17:00 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 17:00 |
| heno | \o/ | 17:01 |
| heno | agenda as usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings | 17:01 |
| heno | * Wiki migration progress | 17:01 |
| heno | schwuk: any word on getting the current pages copied over? | 17:02 |
| davmor2 | I've done some work to the initial layout and would like feed back on any hardware that I might of forgotten. Also if there are any other install methods I might of missed :) | 17:02 |
| schwuk | heno: no - am chasing it up | 17:02 |
| heno | davmor2: the actual HW test cases will be on sub-pages of that right? | 17:04 |
| davmor2 | Henrik Omma: Yes I just want to ensure that I haven't missed any HW for now | 17:05 |
| heno | ok | 17:06 |
| heno | we can always backfill | 17:07 |
| heno | I'm wondering if install should be its own root, rather than in System? | 17:07 |
| davmor2 | Henrik Omma: Well the largest part of system is the installers so up to you | 17:08 |
| davmor2 | Henrik Omma: the only other things that I thought about putting in the are all the system effecting tools like add/remove synaptic etc | 17:09 |
| heno | Let's do that then and leave System for system-level packages and system-integrity tests | 17:09 |
| davmor2 | okay I transfer them over tomorrow then | 17:10 |
| ara_ | I agree, System for installers is a bit confusing. +1 | 17:10 |
| heno | we should check for things like correct write permissions | 17:10 |
| heno | davmor2: thanks | 17:10 |
| heno | schwuk: look forward to seeing the new theme on there :) | 17:11 |
| heno | any ETA? | 17:11 |
| heno | schwuk: you can use the icon from here: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-qa-website | 17:12 |
| schwuk | heno: imminently. Merged your changes and some borrowed from qa-website and the ubuntu wiki | 17:12 |
| ara_ | s/borrowed/stolen ;-) | 17:12 |
| heno | ara_: should we plan a testing day where we go through and test all the new cases on the wiki? | 17:13 |
| heno | that should help us discover gaps etc | 17:13 |
| heno | testing the tests :) | 17:13 |
| ara_ | sure | 17:13 |
| heno | when is a good time | 17:13 |
| davmor2 | how about mid november ;) | 17:13 |
| ara_ | when the cases are ready? :) | 17:14 |
| heno | it will also give us a useful checkpoint for the migration | 17:14 |
| heno | let's try the week after the sprint? | 17:14 |
| ara_ | davmor2: is that feasible? | 17:15 |
| ara_ | davmor2: what do you think? | 17:15 |
| davmor2 | when's the sprint | 17:15 |
| ara_ | next week | 17:15 |
| davmor2 | no | 17:15 |
| ara_ | davmor2: when do you think the cases would be ready? | 17:15 |
| davmor2 | the 5th is alpha 4 so testing will take up a lot of time. Unless that date has changed | 17:16 |
| heno | How can we help davmor2 with this? can we run a 2-hour migration-mini-sprint in Berlin? | 17:17 |
| schwuk | don't see why not | 17:17 |
| ara_ | heno: sure | 17:17 |
| heno | great, sounds like fun! | 17:17 |
| ara_ | heno, davmor2: if we do that, it would be better if davmor2 prepares a plan | 17:18 |
| davmor2 | I think we can get a reasonable ubuntu apps and install up by then but that might be about it. However after next week I can knuckle down with the test again | 17:18 |
| ara_ | heno: so we get the most of those two hours | 17:18 |
| heno | ara_: agreed | 17:18 |
| heno | davmor2: can we have a quick planning call tomorrow? | 17:19 |
| davmor2 | Henrik Omma: np's | 17:19 |
| heno | ok, thanks for the updates | 17:19 |
| heno | any other meeting business? | 17:19 |
| ara_ | the ubuntu-qa-tools package is in REVU now | 17:20 |
| heno | cool! | 17:20 |
| ara_ | if you want your fancy script to be added to the package before is too late, send it to me | 17:21 |
| heno | let's make sure we get someone to review it last week | 17:21 |
| ara_ | heno: dholbach and mok0 are already reviewing it | 17:21 |
| heno | excellent | 17:22 |
| heno | Next week most of us will be at a sprint in Berlin | 17:23 |
| heno | (for those who did not know) | 17:23 |
| schwuk | we are? | 17:23 |
| schwuk | :) | 17:23 |
| heno | should we schedule a meeting for next week? | 17:24 |
| davmor2 | I am too now :) | 17:24 |
| heno | a public IRC and/or voice meeting that is | 17:24 |
| davmor2 | Voice might be fun as most of you will be there won't you? | 17:24 |
| schwuk | heno: a public voice meeting might not be a bad idea. IRC seems a bit like overkill considering participation | 17:25 |
| heno | (e do actually have some in-person meetings scheduled already) | 17:25 |
| heno | phone/skype/ekiga? | 17:25 |
| davmor2 | skype works so that might be the best idea :) | 17:25 |
| heno | ok - I'll make sure to bring a mic and speakers | 17:26 |
| heno | let's wrap up the meeting | 17:28 |
| heno | remember compiz bug day tomorrow! | 17:28 |
| heno | #endmeeting | 17:28 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 11:28. | 17:28 |
| ara_ | thanks! | 17:29 |
| davmor2 | Thanks | 17:29 |
| ara_ | bye! | 17:29 |
| \l | Technoviking, ping | 18:51 |
| === \l is now known as licio | ||
| Riddell | good evening friends | 22:00 |
| Riddell | how are we enjoying KDE 4.2? | 22:00 |
| ScottK | o/ | 22:00 |
| DaSkreech | Humpalicious | 22:00 |
| JontheEchidna | \o | 22:01 |
| * ScottK is sticking with 4.1.4 until we get the SRU through. | 22:01 | |
| DaSkreech | Good 4.3 appetizer :) | 22:01 |
| Lure | Riddell: big time! | 22:01 |
| JontheEchidna | ^lol | 22:01 |
| * Nightrose waves | 22:01 | |
| Tonio_ | :) | 22:01 |
| Nightrose | very much sir | 22:01 |
| jjesse | hello | 22:01 |
| Nightrose | ;-) | 22:01 |
| yuriy | howdy | 22:01 |
| * DaSkreech throws himself off a cliff and lands on Nightrose | 22:01 | |
| Riddell | is anyone here for membership? | 22:01 |
| Nightrose | DaSkreech: outsch :P | 22:02 |
| * jussi01 waves | 22:02 | |
| DaSkreech | I'm a cute puffy cloud the only ouches I have are from my electric personality | 22:02 |
| stdin | perfect time for LP to have scheduled down time | 22:02 |
| JontheEchidna | yeah | 22:03 |
| alleeJaunty | Hi | 22:03 |
| jussi01 | hehe | 22:03 |
| DaSkreech | Yay seele | 22:03 |
| seele | so i put the phone by my ear.. and didn't set the alarm | 22:03 |
| DaSkreech | :-) | 22:03 |
| seele | but i have a very loud text message | 22:03 |
| seele | here i am! | 22:03 |
| * seele yawns | 22:03 | |
| Arby | \o/ | 22:03 |
| * a|wen waves (a bit late as well) | 22:03 | |
| ScottK | a|wen: I uploaded your kdepim fix for 4.1.4. Waiting for it to be accepted ... | 22:03 |
| Riddell | shall we start at the top of the agenda? | 22:04 |
| Riddell | seele has an item about kpackagekit | 22:04 |
| a|wen | thx ScottK | 22:04 |
| ScottK | Is there a link for the agenda? | 22:04 |
| Riddell | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings | 22:04 |
| ScottK | Thanks | 22:04 |
| seele | colomar and i reviewed kpackagekit | 22:04 |
| seele | although (imo) it is still better than adept, it still has some problems | 22:05 |
| seele | and there doesnt seem to be a maintainer for it who can fix them | 22:05 |
| seele | also.. adept is now without a maintainer and i think there are still some open bugs about it? | 22:05 |
| JontheEchidna | about 45, including wishlist items | 22:05 |
| seele | ScottK had mentioned some concerns regarding signed packages and security | 22:05 |
| jjesse | and no help manual for adept | 22:05 |
| Tonio_ | JontheEchidna: :) | 22:05 |
| seele | and there is no interactive installation | 22:06 |
| seele | so.. what should we do? | 22:06 |
| DaSkreech | is adept shipping in Jackalope? | 22:06 |
| JontheEchidna | DaSkreech: that's what we're deciding | 22:06 |
| seele | ...that is what we are here to decide | 22:06 |
| jjesse | that's the question | 22:06 |
| DaSkreech | ah ok | 22:06 |
| jjesse | lol | 22:06 |
| jussi01 | *g* | 22:06 |
| Tonio_ | my 2 cents : bet on the future, and the future is not adept | 22:06 |
| ScottK | As far as my security concerns are, Adept and KPackageKit are equally broken. | 22:06 |
| JontheEchidna | yeah, we can always fall back on adept if kpackagekit falls through | 22:07 |
| Riddell | I'm all for kpackagekit kit, I think we'll find people to work on it same as we did for adept when we had to | 22:07 |
| stdin | the general consensus from users is that they hate Adept :( | 22:07 |
| Tonio_ | kpackagekit isn't perfect at all, but as you said, still better than adept, and since some other distros are gonna use it (fedora...) it'll not be abandonned | 22:07 |
| colomar | So adept doesn't care about package signatures either? | 22:07 |
| ScottK | Comparing the two, I think the lack of dealing with connfile changes correctly is a significant issue | 22:07 |
| JontheEchidna | colomar: correct | 22:07 |
| seele | ok.. so if we go with kpackagekit there is another issue. it only lists packages there is no "application" categorization | 22:07 |
| Riddell | seele: as I remember rgreening volunteered to work on that for jaunty | 22:08 |
| seele | do we have someone competent in C++ who wants to take a stab at extending the existing search for a new page of applications? | 22:08 |
| seele | Riddell: ah hah! | 22:08 |
| Riddell | at UDS | 22:08 |
| seele | he's not here though is he | 22:08 |
| Tonio_ | seele: the gnome one does, so there is probably a functionnality needed to be implemented | 22:08 |
| Tonio_ | seele: but packagekit does it | 22:08 |
| Riddell | seele: not right now but we just need to poke him to do it I think | 22:08 |
| seele | also, search needs greatly improved.. the filters do not work in the right order | 22:08 |
| seele | finally, there are some other minor ui tweaks which are important, but not as important as the former | 22:09 |
| colomar | I also read that the packagekit adept backend supports search in package descriptions, but the current kpackagekit doesn't | 22:09 |
| Riddell | colomar: then that should be fairly easy to fix | 22:09 |
| DaSkreech | Adept KDE4 was pretty broken | 22:09 |
| JontheEchidna | adept doesn't use packagekit | 22:09 |
| colomar | sorry | 22:09 |
| jjesse | adept kde4 was hard to understand/use | 22:09 |
| BluesKaj | kpackagekit , replacement for adept .. sounds interesting . The latest adept isn't much to my liking anyway . | 22:09 |
| yuriy | DaSkreech: oh? | 22:09 |
| Tonio_ | colomar: once again, packagekit supports that, but not kpackagekit, so it' probably not that hard to fix | 22:09 |
| colomar | I meant the apt backend | 22:09 |
| colomar | Tonio_: That's good | 22:10 |
| DaSkreech | I just want debtags | 22:10 |
| ScottK | The one thing Adept does to right is deal with conffile changes. | 22:10 |
| alleeJaunty | seele: are you're list of 'needs to be fixed' written down somewhere? | 22:10 |
| Riddell | the MIR for packagekit is still outstanding, but asac and pitti said they'd look at them this week | 22:10 |
| DaSkreech | Whatever gets me debtags I'm happy :) | 22:10 |
| jjesse | allejaunty seele sent them to kubuntu-devel mailing list | 22:10 |
| * JontheEchidna goes to eat :( /me is for kpackagekit though | 22:10 | |
| jjesse | sorry no tab completion on this web client | 22:10 |
| * ScottK is against | 22:10 | |
| seele | alleeJaunty: yes, we have a review page on the kubuntu wiki. our working comments need to be cleaned up and then we will publish it | 22:10 |
| Tonio_ | colomar: the thing is that for jaunty, kpackagekit will not be the same functionnality level than the gnome UI, but I have absolutly no doubt that'll change in the future, since other distros might consider using it | 22:11 |
| seele | jjesse: i think he was talking about the kpackagekit review | 22:11 |
| seele | ScottK: you are against kpackagekit? | 22:11 |
| DaSkreech | Tonio_: Will it be usable? | 22:11 |
| Tonio_ | DaSkreech: more than adept imho | 22:11 |
| ScottK | I think the "we dont' care about conffile conflicts" decision is wrong. | 22:11 |
| jjesse | aren't we debating on the lesser of two evils? | 22:11 |
| DaSkreech | Other than the Adept not updating the database currently I can use it | 22:11 |
| ScottK | I think it will lead to broken systems. | 22:11 |
| BluesKaj | what about apt ...is it being looked at too ? | 22:12 |
| seele | does anyone else have concerns about how kpackagekit handles conflicts? | 22:12 |
| colomar | Tonio_: Yeah but the problem is that if we have a packe management tool in jaunty that supports neither software selection nor description search nor filters that are actually useful, we're in trouble | 22:12 |
| Tonio_ | ScottK people capable to understand the conffile questions don't use a graphical package manager | 22:12 |
| DaSkreech | jjesse: indeed but also which is easier to corrupt to the side of goos | 22:12 |
| Tonio_ | ScottK they generally use apt/aptitude | 22:12 |
| DaSkreech | good | 22:12 |
| stdin | how hard would it to get kpackagekit to popup a dialog for conf changes? | 22:12 |
| Riddell | I agree with Tonio_ for the most part on conffiles | 22:12 |
| ScottK | Tonio_: That's a very Xandros attitude | 22:12 |
| Tonio_ | ScottK I'm deploying kde in corp environment, and believe me the very first thing we are asked is "make it shut up" | 22:13 |
| Riddell | stdin: hard, it needs big changes in packagekit | 22:13 |
| seele | Tonio_: the two things i listed really need to be fixed if we ship kpackagekit. Riddell reminds me that rgreening volunteered to shape kpackagekit up but he isnt here at the moment | 22:13 |
| ScottK | Tonio_: For a controlled environment like that, it's fine. | 22:13 |
| BluesKaj | so obviously you dev guys are leaving apt alone ... good :) | 22:13 |
| a|wen | what does kpackagekit do with conf-file conflicts atm? | 22:13 |
| seele | stdin: i think that is beyond the scope of what we can do in time. but rgreening would be the one to ask | 22:13 |
| Tonio_ | ScottK my mother wouldn't know what to respond is asked that dhclient.con has changed because a script touched it | 22:13 |
| Riddell | a|wen: go with the current one I think | 22:13 |
| DaSkreech | Riddell: Are other distros looking at getting that in? | 22:13 |
| stdin | Tonio_: just because someone has a httpd for example, doesn't mean they never see the "there are x updates available" bubble and click it | 22:13 |
| Tonio_ | ScottK that's obvious | 22:13 |
| Riddell | DaSkreech: fedora already has it | 22:13 |
| seele | DaSkreech: fedora uses it | 22:14 |
| ScottK | Tonio_: Such people don't modify conffiles either. | 22:14 |
| DaSkreech | Riddell: message popups in kpackage kit? | 22:14 |
| jjesse | it works decent in fedora | 22:14 |
| Tonio_ | ScottK scripts do (dhclient is script modified) | 22:14 |
| jjesse | seems to be easier to understand then adept was ever | 22:14 |
| Riddell | DaSkreech: oh no, they have kpackagekit generally | 22:14 |
| Tonio_ | stdin: the default action is to keep the old conf file | 22:14 |
| ScottK | Riddell: Fedora also likes the xorg-server patch that screws up KDE | 22:14 |
| Tonio_ | stdin: 99% of the times that is the fine choice | 22:14 |
| ScottK | Fedora also shipped KDE 4.0 as a usable system for end users. | 22:15 |
| * yuriy should try out kpackagekit | 22:15 | |
| ScottK | Not much of a vote IMO | 22:15 |
| Tonio_ | stdin: and the config won't get lost | 22:15 |
| DaSkreech | !info kpackagekit | 22:15 |
| ubottu | Package kpackagekit does not exist in intrepid | 22:15 |
| stdin | ok, but it's something to fix sooner rather than later though | 22:15 |
| DaSkreech | stdin: Can it be fixed? | 22:15 |
| stdin | obviously not in time for jaunty | 22:15 |
| Tonio_ | stdin: what to fix ? asking questions ? | 22:15 |
| ScottK | So far we have no one doing any fixing. | 22:15 |
| Riddell | yes, ubuntu will write its own packagekit backend is the plan | 22:15 |
| Riddell | but not for jaunty | 22:16 |
| ScottK | So any theory about what might change is pretty irrelevant. | 22:16 |
| seele | ok.. so i think we need to regroup | 22:16 |
| DaSkreech | ScottK: not if it can't be fixed at all | 22:16 |
| stdin | Tonio_: generally graphical debconf prompts | 22:16 |
| ScottK | DaSkreech: Sure. That's true. | 22:16 |
| seele | there isn't going to be time to do much with kpackagekit | 22:16 |
| Tonio_ | stdin: those are creating problems | 22:16 |
| a|wen | if we at least can get an (optional) popup that the conf-file has changed it's a usable start imo ... realistic? | 22:17 |
| Tonio_ | stdin: my ex already answered yes when adept proposed to close kdm | 22:17 |
| DaSkreech | seele: Is there a list of your concerns somewhere? | 22:17 |
| Tonio_ | that close kdm.... and adept | 22:17 |
| Tonio_ | and the upgrade was broken | 22:17 |
| * seele sighs | 22:17 | |
| seele | DaSkreech: yes, i already said so | 22:17 |
| Tonio_ | people don't understand those questions, most of the times | 22:17 |
| DaSkreech | Sorry if i missed it | 22:17 |
| Riddell | we should move on | 22:17 |
| stdin | Tonio_: I was thinking about how mysql-server asks for a password, and things like that | 22:17 |
| DaSkreech | and java licenses >_> | 22:18 |
| Riddell | the plan is to go with kpackagekit and generally that's better than the alternative | 22:18 |
| jjesse | if we are moving on did we decide anything? | 22:18 |
| stdin | if people don't read dialogs before clicking "OK", then that's their fault ;) | 22:18 |
| seele | we did not decide anything | 22:18 |
| Tonio_ | stdin: in that case you don't use a graphical component :) | 22:18 |
| seele | so.. let's pause the conversation for a few minutes here | 22:18 |
| seele | or else we'll never reach a conclusion | 22:18 |
| DaSkreech | Win+C | 22:18 |
| seele | three votes: | 22:19 |
| seele | Vote 1 for package kit *as is* | 22:19 |
| seele | Vote 2 for package kit with the two UI requirements colomar and i came up with | 22:19 |
| seele | Vote 3 for package kit *only* if it gets the config file handling thing you all are discussing | 22:19 |
| seele | please express you wish now. | 22:20 |
| ScottK | 3 | 22:20 |
| Riddell | 1 | 22:20 |
| seele | 1, but 2 would be nice. | 22:20 |
| Tonio_ | 2, but even 1 is fine with me, thinking about the future | 22:20 |
| stdin | 1 | 22:20 |
| colomar | 2 | 22:20 |
| stdin | better than unmaintained adept | 22:20 |
| a|wen | 3- (as long as we get a popup) | 22:20 |
| seele | is yuriy or apachelogger here? | 22:20 |
| alleeJaunty | 1. 2 would be really nice to have | 22:21 |
| * apachelogger didn't follow the discussion so has no clue what the config file handling would be | 22:21 | |
| apachelogger | 1 though :) | 22:21 |
| Lure | 1 (2 nice to have) | 22:21 |
| apachelogger | (2 of course preferred= | 22:21 |
| ScottK | apachelogger: Same as adept does and ask you about overwriting conffile changes | 22:21 |
| jjesse | 1 (2 nice to have) but doesn't know if vote matters | 22:21 |
| seele | jjesse: it does unless there is a conflict and we'll go with whatever council says. but i'd like to make it a member vote | 22:22 |
| alleeJaunty | apachelogger: you know what you're doing so you should use apt(itude) as long as 3 isn't working | 22:22 |
| seele | ok. so there are lots of 1s and some 2s. | 22:22 |
| jjesse | whatever we decide i'll work on documenting it | 22:23 |
| seele | only two people are concerned about the configuration files | 22:23 |
| BluesKaj | I am but not a member so... | 22:23 |
| yuriy | I haven't tried kpackagekit at all, so I dunno | 22:23 |
| seele | i will ask nixternal and yuriy what they think, unless they feel strongly about option 3, we will ship kpackage kit | 22:23 |
| seele | council ok with that? | 22:23 |
| seele | (yes) | 22:23 |
| DaSkreech | absolute number of 1s and 2 are the same | 22:23 |
| james_w | I'll also point out that it would make it impossible to install e.g. sun java where you *must* answer a debconf prompt for it to install. | 22:23 |
| DaSkreech | number of ones preceeding 2s is greater | 22:23 |
| Tonio_ | seele: fine with me | 22:23 |
| seele | DaSkreech: most of the 2s were nice to haves | 22:23 |
| seele | yuriy and nixternal are both on council correct? | 22:23 |
| DaSkreech | Yeah I just said that :) | 22:23 |
| jjesse | ok so in the documentation we are now referencing kpackagekit in how to install software? | 22:24 |
| Lure | seele: I am also concerned about conffiles, but adept is not that much better | 22:24 |
| Riddell | seele: they are | 22:24 |
| Lure | seele: I more vote for the future | 22:24 |
| yuriy | I do think configuration files (more generally, questions during installation) are a concern though | 22:24 |
| seele | so unless one of them are strongly opposed to it (which we will have to rediscuss) then this is what we're going for | 22:24 |
| DaSkreech | With no canges? | 22:24 |
| DaSkreech | changes | 22:24 |
| Riddell | with changes if rgreening or someone will do them | 22:24 |
| seele | DaSkreech: we will go with kpackagekit unless yuriy and nixternal are strongly opposed for reason 3 | 22:25 |
| DaSkreech | kk | 22:25 |
| seele | colomar and I will work with rgreening in the meantime to see what he can accomplish in the next two weeks | 22:25 |
| seele | so.. end of kpackagekit discussion | 22:25 |
| seele | next.. quassel | 22:25 |
| seele | any quassel devs here? i think Sput is probably sleeping by now | 22:25 |
| Nightrose | EgS: poke | 22:25 |
| EgS | ouch :) | 22:25 |
| seele | ScottK: you are pretty up on their development. is there anything we should know in the consideration of quassel? | 22:26 |
| stdin | jussi01's favourite subject | 22:26 |
| Nightrose | ;-) | 22:26 |
| jussi01 | :D | 22:26 |
| seele | btw. this discussion is about including quassel as the default irc client. our goal is to be kde4libs only and konversation has not been ported | 22:26 |
| seele | ScottK: ping | 22:26 |
| seele | ok so anyway | 22:26 |
| jjesse | if we use quassel it will be yet another application by defualt with no documentation/help file | 22:26 |
| Nightrose | EgS: how's the progress on seele's list? | 22:26 |
| * jussi01 thinks that the quassel devs response times are excellent. | 22:26 | |
| DaSkreech | Quassel has KDE4 integration now I hear? | 22:27 |
| seele | i did a UI review of quassel and came up with a list of issues they had to address | 22:27 |
| Nightrose | yes | 22:27 |
| DaSkreech | Kool | 22:27 |
| seele | the quassel code monkeys have fixed many minor issues and are currently working on bigger issues | 22:27 |
| seele | this includes a toolbar for common irc actions and a better connection dialog for when the irc client opens | 22:27 |
| EgS | seele: thought the biggest issue (the separation of core / client) is fixed ;) | 22:28 |
| seele | i'm not sure what the status of those two things are | 22:28 |
| * Nightrose is using quassel as her client for a few months now and is impressed with the latest changes | 22:28 | |
| seele | EgS: just about to say that :) | 22:28 |
| EgS | toolbar is coming soonish, as we have now nice new icons :) | 22:28 |
| seele | they have done a great job of separating the core and client in to a monolithic client | 22:28 |
| * JontheEchidna was actually able to replace konversation with quassel :D | 22:28 | |
| seele | EgS: do you have any concerns about getting things done by featurefreeze? | 22:28 |
| seele | ^ Feb 19th i think? | 22:28 |
| BluesKaj | seele , I hope so cuz I found quassel kinda clunky , hope it gets fixed | 22:28 |
| * DaSkreech would be concerned with connection experience | 22:29 | |
| * Lure switched to quassel and likes it | 22:29 | |
| * alleeJaunty tried quassel 2 hours ago for the first time. Still much too complicated, but I can see the potential | 22:29 | |
| DaSkreech | #kubuntu is the main help for people drastically confused as to what is going on | 22:29 |
| seele | so for those of you concerned with quassel, it improves every day. so unless you have been keeping up with /trunk/ via ScottK's PPA, you are probably missing a lot | 22:29 |
| EgS | seele: no I don't. I consider the toolbar a small issue too (at least judging by the amount of work needed) | 22:29 |
| DaSkreech | And one of the things I liked about KDE was it was much easier to jump on IRC to get help | 22:29 |
| seele | EgS: ok. I gave Sput some suggestions on how to use the existing network Config as the connection screen too | 22:30 |
| * alleeJaunty checks the ppa | 22:30 | |
| jjesse | what is scottk's ppa? is it jaunty only? | 22:30 |
| BluesKaj | DaSkreech , I have quassel working ok , but the setup is a bit confusing IMO | 22:30 |
| seele | jjesse: no, it is available for intrepid too | 22:30 |
| * jjesse makes note | 22:30 | |
| * ScottK is back | 22:30 | |
| jussi01 | jjesse: ~kitterman | 22:30 |
| DaSkreech | BluesKaj: and you are very familar with IRC concepts | 22:30 |
| seele | so, basically there are two more things left on my requirements list that they are confident they will complete: the toolbar and the connection screen | 22:30 |
| Nightrose | people don't forget that there are two ways to use quassel | 22:30 |
| seele | the goal was to make quassel easy enough for users to be able to launch the program and connect to #kubuntu for help | 22:30 |
| jussi01 | BluesKaj: but are you using the new mono client or? | 22:30 |
| Nightrose | the monolithic one got a lot easier lately | 22:30 |
| seele | additional UI refinement can come later | 22:31 |
| DaSkreech | Nightrose: Sweet | 22:31 |
| seele | since we don't have any other options, i dont think we need to vote | 22:31 |
| DaSkreech | Just a note as to what needs to be done | 22:31 |
| seele | so unless something blows up in terms of development in the next two weeks, i recommend we ship quassel | 22:31 |
| seele | anyone opposed? | 22:31 |
| Nightrose | +1 | 22:31 |
| BluesKaj | DaSkreech , I hope that was said in jest , concepts no, but useability , yes ...I've tried many clients over the yrs | 22:31 |
| jussi01 | +1 from me :D | 22:31 |
| ScottK | I'll just toss in that Quassel's upstream is very active and very responsive. | 22:31 |
| Riddell | is it keeping the wee window at the top with data from all channels? | 22:32 |
| ScottK | Also kees just did a security review and he found it well designed. | 22:32 |
| ScottK | Riddell: It is | 22:32 |
| Riddell | ScottK: oh he did that? | 22:32 |
| seele | Riddell: that's an option that can be configured. we can decide later if we want to enable that by default | 22:32 |
| JontheEchidna | quassel++ | 22:32 |
| ScottK | Riddell: He did. | 22:32 |
| Riddell | ScottK: can you make sure the MIR bug is updated | 22:32 |
| ScottK | Riddell: I will. | 22:32 |
| Riddell | thanks | 22:32 |
| Tonio_ | +1 for me | 22:32 |
| stdin | we should disable the buffer at the top IMO, it will confuse people :p | 22:32 |
| seele | ok. i hear no one opposed about the inclusion of quassel | 22:32 |
| seele | EgS: congratulations ;) | 22:33 |
| EgS | \o/ | 22:33 |
| JontheEchidna | \m/ | 22:33 |
| DaSkreech | BluesKaj: Same thing :) | 22:33 |
| jussi01 | \o/ | 22:33 |
| jjesse | +1 from me but only because konversation is no longer a choice | 22:33 |
| seele | net topic is the removal of Arts. is andreas here? | 22:33 |
| Riddell | a|wen | 22:33 |
| * a|wen waves | 22:33 | |
| BluesKaj | DaSkreech , so what's your opinion of quassel ? | 22:33 |
| seele | a|wen: want to tell us about arts | 22:33 |
| ScottK | Since knights is broken due to lack of KDE3, just remove it. | 22:34 |
| seele | BluesKaj: DaSkreech: please talk about that out of channel for the time being | 22:34 |
| ScottK | I've been asking for removal of such packages as I find them. | 22:34 |
| a|wen | the removal is tracked here: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/RemoveArts | 22:34 |
| DaSkreech | Great Concept. Like the buffers It's a goof GUI analogy to Screen and irssi needs to have a two click setup if we are going to have it by default | 22:34 |
| BluesKaj | seele, ok sry | 22:34 |
| Tonio_ | ScottK then we should consider all kde3 ioslaves to drop :) | 22:34 |
| a|wen | most of them should be able to be compiled without arts ... but there is to problems | 22:34 |
| ScottK | Tonio_: OK | 22:34 |
| Tonio_ | ScottK kio-beagle, kio-locate, datakiosk... those are broken | 22:35 |
| a|wen | nateon and knights ... are we ok on dropping them? | 22:35 |
| Riddell | Tonio_: give me a list and I'll remove them | 22:35 |
| seele | what are nateon and knights? | 22:35 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: yup, will do | 22:35 |
| Riddell | knights is chess | 22:35 |
| JontheEchidna | seele: nateon is a korean chat app | 22:35 |
| BluesKaj | hmm , brb | 22:35 |
| * ScottK points seele at the agenda | 22:35 | |
| jussi01 | seele: agenda ;) | 22:35 |
| jussi01 | hehe | 22:35 |
| seele | ? we're talking about arts right? | 22:35 |
| JontheEchidna | yes, they depend on arts | 22:36 |
| EgS | as a general note: if anybody feels he needs to discuss something about quassel or needs fast feedback: feel yourself invited to join #quassel | 22:36 |
| seele | is there another kde chess game? | 22:36 |
| seele | or do we care if we have a chess game? | 22:36 |
| ScottK | seele: It doesn't matter, it's broken anyway | 22:36 |
| apachelogger | seele: agenda :P | 22:36 |
| Riddell | a|wen: I take it nateon can't be compiled without arts? | 22:36 |
| a|wen | that is our problem (maybe) | 22:36 |
| ScottK | Can arts be patched out of nateon? | 22:36 |
| a|wen | Riddell: exactly | 22:36 |
| apachelogger | well | 22:37 |
| apachelogger | we could hack it up | 22:37 |
| apachelogger | but | 22:37 |
| apachelogger | http://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=nateon | 22:37 |
| apachelogger | doesn't seem to be very popular | 22:37 |
| JontheEchidna | we must not be big with the south koreans | 22:37 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: we have crap localization, what do you expect :P | 22:37 |
| ScottK | That's in Debian, not Kubuntu | 22:37 |
| JontheEchidna | :P | 22:37 |
| apachelogger | ScottK: well, it gives an idea | 22:37 |
| DaSkreech | seele: I think there are enough Chess games that people won't get huffy about it | 22:37 |
| Tonio_ | DaSkreech: +1 | 22:38 |
| JontheEchidna | dood, people get huffy is kpdf and kghostview aren't in intrepid | 22:38 |
| JontheEchidna | even though they have okular | 22:38 |
| a|wen | i don't think hacking op nateon is worth it (and documentation is in korean!!) | 22:38 |
| DaSkreech | ubottu knows at least 5 or 6 | 22:38 |
| ubottu | Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) | 22:38 |
| Nightrose | does anyone use a chess program here? | 22:39 |
| DaSkreech | a|wen: can we notify upstream at least? | 22:39 |
| Nightrose | would be nice to get an opinion from someone who actually play chess | 22:39 |
| Nightrose | *plays | 22:39 |
| apachelogger | well | 22:39 |
| apachelogger | knights is dead | 22:39 |
| a|wen | DaSkreech: i can do that | 22:39 |
| apachelogger | like _completely_ | 22:39 |
| Nightrose | hehe ok | 22:39 |
| apachelogger | last release was some pre-release in 2005 | 22:39 |
| Nightrose | ooooooook... | 22:39 |
| apachelogger | keeping it around would only delay the unavoidable | 22:40 |
| nixternal | yo yo | 22:40 |
| a|wen | and we are shipping staple from 2003 patched up | 22:40 |
| Nightrose | yo yo Nicke_ | 22:40 |
| alleeJaunty | The jaunty announcement should mention the list of removed kde3 only apps IMHO | 22:40 |
| ScottK | It won't get any more broken if we remove it | 22:40 |
| Nightrose | nixternal even | 22:40 |
| nixternal | ya, at work...only check IRC like once in a blue moon | 22:40 |
| ScottK | Ubuntu popcon data for nateon is nateon 274 18 241 14 1 | 22:40 |
| * nixternal goes back away from IRC | 22:40 | |
| apachelogger | for nateon I propose: talk to upstream => if no KDE 4 in sight, but planed => _try_ patching; if no KDE 4 version planed => drop it | 22:41 |
| Tonio_ | http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Tagua?content=65571 | 22:41 |
| Tonio_ | we can package this :) | 22:41 |
| apachelogger | if patching fails arts just needs to stick around a bit longer | 22:41 |
| a|wen | Tonio_: http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=tagua | 22:41 |
| apachelogger | Tonio_: as agenda says it is already in debian/experimental ;-) | 22:41 |
| DaSkreech | nixternal: needed a vote from you is all | 22:41 |
| Tonio_ | apachelogger: oups... | 22:41 |
| a|wen | and it actually works pretty well | 22:41 |
| DaSkreech | Tagua is a bit dead as I recall But can be massaged | 22:41 |
| ScottK | There is a pidgin-nateon that's substanitally more popular than nateon | 22:42 |
| DaSkreech | Prod Kopete :) | 22:42 |
| Riddell | indeed, those koreans should really just write a plugin for kopete | 22:42 |
| DaSkreech | I'm assuming it doesn't use a libnateon ? | 22:42 |
| apachelogger | no | 22:42 |
| DaSkreech | Yeah make some contact with the Korean KDErs | 22:43 |
| Riddell | I propose we drop it and just notify upstream and kde-kr | 22:43 |
| DaSkreech | +1 | 22:44 |
| Tonio_ | +1 | 22:44 |
| a|wen | +1 | 22:44 |
| ScottK | +1 | 22:44 |
| apachelogger | +1 | 22:44 |
| JontheEchidna | +1 | 22:44 |
| jjesse | +1 | 22:44 |
| Nightrose | +1 | 22:44 |
| Arby | +1 | 22:44 |
| jussi01 | +1 | 22:44 |
| JontheEchidna | c-c-c-c-combo breaker! | 22:44 |
| a|wen | so nateon dies ... and knights as well | 22:45 |
| Riddell | I feel that suppestion speaks to our condition | 22:45 |
| ScottK | Can I piggy back on this we drop kita2 also? It's a Japanese IM app with even lower popcon than nateon. | 22:45 |
| Riddell | a|wen: poke me after the meeting I'll do the removal | 22:45 |
| a|wen | Riddell: i'll do that | 22:45 |
| ScottK | It's the last remaining rdepend for the KDE bindings | 22:45 |
| Riddell | ScottK: what does it use? | 22:45 |
| ScottK | I forget which one | 22:45 |
| nixternal | DaSkreech: a vote on what? | 22:45 |
| DaSkreech | and arts | 22:45 |
| ScottK | One of the ruby ones I thikn | 22:45 |
| Riddell | ScottK: ah yes, Japan, it would :) | 22:46 |
| Riddell | ScottK: I agree, I don't think we should support ruby-kde3 any more | 22:46 |
| DaSkreech | nixternal: kpackagekit as is or kpackagekit with UI changes or kpacakgekit with conffile fixes | 22:46 |
| ScottK | libkorundum0-ruby1.8 | 22:46 |
| apachelogger | <3 japan | 22:46 |
| apachelogger | ScottK: yes, ruby it is | 22:46 |
| Riddell | let's move on | 22:46 |
| Riddell | Arby has a point on s-c-p-k | 22:46 |
| nixternal | DaSkreech: #2 and #3 :) | 22:46 |
| Arby | \o | 22:47 |
| Arby | basically this is about getting it ready for jaunty | 22:47 |
| nixternal | if #3 is complete that is fine, but don't ship a piece of junk | 22:47 |
| Arby | what we absolutely need to have | 22:47 |
| * nixternal goes back to work, call me if you need me from this point on :) | 22:47 | |
| DaSkreech | nixternal: with a proposal for fixage of course. You can do that once off work :) | 22:47 |
| Arby | what is nice to have | 22:47 |
| seele | nixternal: when do you get off work? you've just created a council meeting :P | 22:47 |
| Arby | this is a list of features listed in the readme as still missing and where I've got to with them | 22:48 |
| Arby | http://paste.ubuntu.com/111016/ | 22:48 |
| nixternal | I should be getting off work soon, but I am whicked busy, probably not for a few hours | 22:48 |
| Arby | currently I have 2 branches on the go | 22:48 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: your point :) | 22:48 |
| Arby | stand alone lp:~rbirnie/system-config-printer/new_ui | 22:48 |
| seele | ok, ping us when you get in | 22:48 |
| Arby | systemsettings module lp:~kubuntu-members/system-config-printer/kcm-scpk | 22:48 |
| JontheEchidna | oh, that looks familiar | 22:48 |
| Arby | so the first question is | 22:48 |
| Arby | do we want to go with the standalone version again or push to get it into systemsettings? | 22:49 |
| Lure | digikam/kipi-plugins are in universe - any reason to move them to main (as they were pre-intrepid) | 22:49 |
| Arby | the standalone version works reasonably well | 22:49 |
| seele | Arby: i would like to see it in systemsettings but will it be much work? | 22:49 |
| JontheEchidna | Arby: pretty much the only thing keeping it from SS is that crash, right? | 22:49 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: sorry one still pending point :) | 22:49 |
| JontheEchidna | as far as we know | 22:49 |
| seele | ah | 22:49 |
| Riddell | I hope to look at system settings intgration tomorrow | 22:49 |
| Tonio_ | Arby: I'm all for systemsettings on my side | 22:49 |
| Lure | I think we do not need digikam on live-cd, as we have gwenview for casual user now | 22:49 |
| Arby | JontheEchidna: that crash and the class inheritance | 22:50 |
| Arby | Riddell: that would be great | 22:50 |
| Lure | but kipi may be useful (integration with flickr, picasaweb, facebook, smugmug, gallery...) | 22:50 |
| Arby | if we're going to get into systemsettings I'll need help | 22:50 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: !! still discussing the printer stuff !! :) | 22:50 |
| Arby | I'm in over my head there :) | 22:50 |
| Lure | Tonio_: I see... ;-) | 22:50 |
| JontheEchidna | Riddell: we have both spckde and jockey somewhat there, but they both crash when they try to do dbus-y things | 22:50 |
| Arby | it breaks in ways I don't begin to understan | 22:51 |
| JontheEchidna | that too | 22:51 |
| Riddell | hmm, right, dbus | 22:51 |
| seele | what is spckde? | 22:51 |
| Riddell | s-c-p-k | 22:51 |
| Arby | system-config-printer-kde | 22:51 |
| Arby | it really needs a shorter name | 22:51 |
| seele | ah letters were in the wrong order there :) | 22:51 |
| JontheEchidna | kprinter2000 | 22:51 |
| DaSkreech | scpk ? | 22:51 |
| Tonio_ | Arby: kdeprint ? | 22:51 |
| DaSkreech | that's so 9 years ago | 22:52 |
| * Tonio_ hides | 22:52 | |
| JontheEchidna | kprinter3000 | 22:52 |
| JontheEchidna | :D | 22:52 |
| Arby | he | 22:52 |
| apachelogger | how | 22:52 |
| Tonio_ | but why not in fact... kdeprint old fashion is dead, so....... | 22:52 |
| apachelogger | about | 22:52 |
| apachelogger | 22:52 | |
| apachelogger | :P | 22:52 |
| seele | do we know why dbus is causing it to crash? | 22:52 |
| seele | and are waiting for a patch? | 22:52 |
| seele | or does someone have to look in to it? | 22:52 |
| Riddell | seele: no but I'll look at it tomorrow | 22:52 |
| seele | ok | 22:52 |
| Arby | so we're agreed we want it in system settings, good | 22:52 |
| seele | system settings contains everything so i'd like it in there | 22:53 |
| JontheEchidna | if possible | 22:53 |
| Arby | next which features do we absolutely need and which are nice to have? | 22:53 |
| Arby | I pasted a list up there ^^ | 22:53 |
| seele | in the future we'll eventually need to address some of the utlities, but that wont be until jaunty+1/4.4 | 22:53 |
| apachelogger | Arby: smb integration is pretty important for business use cases I suppose | 22:53 |
| DaSkreech | Systemsettings needs love | 22:53 |
| Arby | apachelogger: that would be my biggest concern | 22:54 |
| Arby | but again help needed | 22:54 |
| Riddell | Arby: driver download isn't a priority, I don't think there's any drivers to download | 22:54 |
| seele | SMB is lowest priority imo | 22:54 |
| Arby | if anybody who has a working samba printer could test it that would be good | 22:54 |
| a|wen | i'd say a printer options page | 22:54 |
| seele | access control page.. i think that could be low priority too, but other people might not agree | 22:54 |
| a|wen | is the most important | 22:55 |
| seele | yes, printer options page seems like the most reasonable and most useful | 22:55 |
| Tonio_ | Arby: I can test at work, no problem | 22:55 |
| apachelogger | Arby: me too | 22:55 |
| Arby | seele: well access control is mostly done, needs testing | 22:55 |
| apachelogger | loads of smb printers there :D | 22:55 |
| seele | Arby: oh in that case.. :) | 22:55 |
| Arby | Tonio_: apachelogger that would be great | 22:55 |
| Riddell | I'll have a go at starting the options page tomorrow then | 22:55 |
| Tonio_ | Arby: I'll make a test tomorrow morning and will let you know :) | 22:56 |
| Arby | apachelogger: Tonio_ I'll have to commit what I've got locally first to make it worthwhile | 22:56 |
| Arby | I'll do it after the meeting | 22:56 |
| Tonio_ | Arby: please ping when ready so that we can test then :) | 22:56 |
| Arby | so, in summary | 22:57 |
| Arby | systemsettings integration and a job options page required for jaunty | 22:57 |
| JontheEchidna | if it was working, jockey would have the full functionality of the standalone kde and gtk clients | 22:57 |
| Arby | access control and samba browsing, nice to have | 22:57 |
| Arby | agreed? | 22:57 |
| JontheEchidna | +1 | 22:57 |
| apachelogger | aye | 22:57 |
| Tonio_ | yup | 22:57 |
| a|wen | +1 | 22:58 |
| Arby | excellent | 22:58 |
| Arby | as a general point, any and all testing would be appreciated :) | 22:58 |
| yuriy | smb browsing would be nice | 22:58 |
| Arby | I'll try to put a package together soon and stick it in a ppa | 22:58 |
| * seele tries to stay away for technical talk.. | 22:59 | |
| a|wen | +1 to that as well :) | 22:59 |
| Arby | yuriy: it will arrive at somepoint :) | 22:59 |
| seele | printing yes +1 yay | 22:59 |
| Tonio_ | Arby: is lan browsing on the long term plans ? | 22:59 |
| Arby | seele: if you wouldn't mind taking another look at the ui would be nice | 23:00 |
| Tonio_ | Arby: that's something I really loved with kdeprint.... | 23:00 |
| * apachelogger grabs the whip | 23:00 | |
| Tonio_ | s/browsing/scanning | 23:00 |
| apachelogger | lets move on :P | 23:00 |
| Arby | Tonio_: haven't thought about it yet :) | 23:00 |
| seele | Arby: sure.. send me screenshots.. i dont have jaunty set up anywhere atm | 23:00 |
| Riddell | Lure's item next | 23:00 |
| Lure | digikam/kipi-plugins are in universe - any reason to move them to main (as they were pre-intrepid)? | 23:00 |
| Arby | seele: will do | 23:00 |
| Lure | I think we do not need digikam on live-cd, as we have gwenview for casual user now | 23:00 |
| Lure | but kipi may be useful (integration with flickr, picasaweb, facebook, smugmug, gallery...) | 23:00 |
| Tonio_ | Arby: pretty usefull in corp environment :) but certainly not a priority, so for the long term maybe ;) | 23:00 |
| Riddell | Lure: just needs MIRs for those new dependencies | 23:00 |
| DaSkreech | Is kipi up to task for KDE4? | 23:01 |
| Lure | Riddell: new deps need to get in archive first ;-) | 23:01 |
| Tonio_ | +1000 for kipi-plugins | 23:01 |
| Tonio_ | DaSkreech: yup | 23:01 |
| apachelogger | kipi main | 23:01 |
| apachelogger | kipi on cd (improves gwenview as well) | 23:01 |
| alleeJaunty | Tonio_: browsing/scanning should be done via avahi. | 23:01 |
| apachelogger | digikam main | 23:01 |
| Riddell | Lure: are you able to package them or are you looking for volunteers to do it? | 23:01 |
| DaSkreech | apachelogger: I thought we were trying to save space :-P | 23:01 |
| apachelogger | digikam on CD (if possible spacewise) | 23:01 |
| * JontheEchidna shovels out driveway | 23:01 | |
| Lure | lensfun is in Debian NEW, so I can just do 0ubuntu1 upload | 23:02 |
| apachelogger | DaSkreech: kipi is not that big is it? | 23:02 |
| Tonio_ | alleeJaunty: requires zeroconf, not the same than scanning for an entire subnet on a specific port, imho | 23:02 |
| Lure | opencv needs packaging and help would be great (I am a bit rusty with new packages ;-)) | 23:02 |
| apachelogger | Tonio_: what size does the almighty kipi-plugins package have? | 23:02 |
| Riddell | Lure: go for it | 23:02 |
| Tonio_ | apachelogger: 4MB | 23:02 |
| apachelogger | that should fit on the CD I suppose ;-) | 23:02 |
| Tonio_ | apachelogger: we also have to consider new libs coming with it :) | 23:03 |
| DaSkreech | 4 megs is Huuuuuuuge :) | 23:03 |
| apachelogger | DaSkreech: look at ooo :P | 23:03 |
| a|wen | if we get all the kde3 stuff to go away | 23:03 |
| Tonio_ | DaSkreech: nothing compared to crap OOo... :) | 23:03 |
| Lure | Riddell: so no MIR needed for digikam/kipi-plugins, just for new depends? | 23:03 |
| DaSkreech | Yeah I know but Koffice isn't quite Killer yet | 23:03 |
| Riddell | Lure: correct | 23:03 |
| Lure | Riddell: then we can move them now (can you do it)? then we just take care for new deps later (when accepted in archive) | 23:04 |
| DaSkreech | we could ship Abiword >_< | 23:04 |
| Lure | we can start seeding kipi-plugins | 23:04 |
| Riddell | Lure: can do | 23:04 |
| seele | DaSkreech: ... | 23:04 |
| Tonio_ | talking about digikam, it i to me a basic feature to be able to download cameras photos by default.... | 23:04 |
| Tonio_ | even windows xp does it... | 23:04 |
| DaSkreech | I keeed I keeeed | 23:04 |
| DaSkreech | Tonio_: digikampart? | 23:04 |
| Tonio_ | as long as technically possible, I think we shoul ship with digikam | 23:04 |
| Lure | Tonio_: gwenview does not have this? | 23:04 |
| DaSkreech | Does camera:/ still work ? | 23:04 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: not that I know of...... | 23:05 |
| * Lure cannot recall | 23:05 | |
| Tonio_ | well, mass storage works, but not pptp | 23:05 |
| Tonio_ | and lots of cameras are set to pptp only or by default | 23:05 |
| DaSkreech | Is that an upstream issue? | 23:05 |
| Tonio_ | DaSkreech: no simply gwenview isn't designed for that yet | 23:05 |
| a|wen | camera:// still exists | 23:05 |
| apachelogger | well ... photography seems to be a popular hobby these days ... so we should stuff digikam on the CD if we have enough space left | 23:05 |
| Nightrose | mine and seele's cameras don't work in intrepid - major pita :/ | 23:05 |
| Tonio_ | do people know about camera:// ? | 23:06 |
| apachelogger | +1 on improved digikam handling | 23:06 |
| DaSkreech | I don't think that gwenview is supposed to do that at all | 23:06 |
| apachelogger | *digicam even :P | 23:06 |
| a|wen | Tonio_: possibly not though | 23:06 |
| apachelogger | DaSkreech: KDE should | 23:06 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: is the viewer in the same package ? if so we should split not to dupe gwenview | 23:06 |
| yuriy | digikam on the cd if possible would be great | 23:06 |
| Tonio_ | a|wen: :) | 23:06 |
| yuriy | it's one of the killer apps imo | 23:07 |
| Lure | Tonio_: showfoto is in separate package, but it is very small | 23:07 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: ok... what are the doc size ? | 23:07 |
| Lure | Tonio_: no kde4 doc yet, but in the works | 23:07 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: okay | 23:07 |
| Lure | Tonio_: and it is separate package, afair | 23:07 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: and what is the packge size ? | 23:07 |
| Lure | Tonio_: 10 MB | 23:08 |
| Lure | + depends | 23:08 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: one we get k3b in we can get rid of kdelibs4 right ? | 23:08 |
| Riddell | openoffice needs to drop it to | 23:08 |
| Riddell | no KDE file open dialogue | 23:08 |
| alleeJaunty | Tonio_: showfoto is the worst name ever. Editfoto would be much better for what the app is designed for | 23:08 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: yeah :( can't wait to ship with koffice2..... maybe one day... | 23:09 |
| Tonio_ | alleeJaunty: true that :) | 23:09 |
| ScottK | Can that be like the java stuff where all the depends aren't shipped by default but if install it it works | 23:09 |
| DaSkreech | I almost recall reading an artcle that said that you could get OO.o to use the KDE file dialog | 23:09 |
| Lure | Riddell: just drop it - kde3 is new gnome - we do not want it anymore ;-) | 23:09 |
| ScottK | That being the ooo stuff | 23:09 |
| Riddell | ScottK: I don't know | 23:09 |
| apachelogger | Lure: lol | 23:09 |
| Riddell | but it can keep the crystal icons and Qt widgets ,just no file open dialogue | 23:09 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: kdelibs4c2a is 10MB = digikam | 23:09 |
| yuriy | I don't know if the kde integration is useful in OOo if it's kde3 | 23:10 |
| Riddell | no KDE file open dialgoue | 23:10 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: considering digikam in that case looks possible right ? | 23:10 |
| Riddell | yes, let's ask calc if he can look into dropping kdelibs from openoffice | 23:10 |
| yuriy | it's extra confusing even, to have the completely separate set of bookmarks there | 23:10 |
| DaSkreech | yuriy: good point | 23:10 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: OOo depends on kde3... hum... I forgot that part.... sorry | 23:11 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: I was all at konversation/k3b replacement | 23:11 |
| Riddell | ACTION: move digikam and kipi to main, add to CDs, ask calc to drop kdelibs from openoffice | 23:11 |
| DaSkreech | What's a k3b replacement? | 23:11 |
| Riddell | trueg says he's going to get k3b back into shape | 23:11 |
| Lure | DaSkreech: wodim | 23:11 |
| * Lure hides | 23:11 | |
| DaSkreech | Sebastian is back in KDE swing would it be possibly to have a discussion to see a timeline for K3b 4 KDE4 ? | 23:12 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: is OOo depending on kde3 or 4 libs right now ? | 23:12 |
| Lure | Tonio_: kde3 | 23:12 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: okay | 23:12 |
| DaSkreech | There is a K3B KDE4 beta right ? | 23:12 |
| Riddell | yes | 23:12 |
| * ScottK needs to run. | 23:12 | |
| Riddell | let's move on | 23:12 |
| Lure | DaSkreech: yes: does not work for me, but Tonio_ has some success | 23:12 |
| DaSkreech | ok I'm fine with that | 23:13 |
| ScottK | No opinion on KGet or Kopete tabs, but I do want stickers. | 23:13 |
| Tonio_ | DaSkreech: packaging in the work on my side, tests are not that good on the dvd side :) | 23:13 |
| Riddell | Tonio_ wants to discuss kget | 23:13 |
| Tonio_ | yep | 23:13 |
| Tonio_ | I personnaly consider ktorrent UI a nightmare | 23:13 |
| Tonio_ | and I pretty love kget as a download manager for konqueror | 23:13 |
| Tonio_ | is integrates like a charm | 23:13 |
| * Nightrose likes ktorrent tbh | 23:13 | |
| DaSkreech | I haven't used kget for torrents I'll assume the UI isn't a dream though | 23:13 |
| Riddell | I like KDE's normal downloads | 23:14 |
| Tonio_ | DaSkreech: bah UI is a standard download manager UI :) | 23:14 |
| Tonio_ | simple and efficient | 23:14 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: yeah, but no pause, queue, restart and so on | 23:14 |
| DaSkreech | How does it work feature wise? | 23:14 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: a download manager has a lot of advantages | 23:14 |
| Riddell | ug, it still has that weird drop target thing in the middle of the screen | 23:14 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: is disabled by default | 23:14 |
| Riddell | just popped up here | 23:15 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: just an option like with all download managers | 23:15 |
| ScottK | OK. I do have an opinion about KGet. I don't like that drop target thing either. | 23:15 |
| ScottK | See you all. | 23:15 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: can make is off by default easilly | 23:15 |
| Riddell | hmm, yet another systray icon | 23:15 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: kget is very similar to any osx or windows standard download manager, and people are used to those softwares | 23:15 |
| DaSkreech | Tonio_: plasmoid? :) | 23:15 |
| Nightrose | Tonio_: so what do you actually propose? | 23:15 |
| yuriy | I haven't used kget, but I never saw the point of it | 23:15 |
| Tonio_ | Nightrose: to test kget and when people have an opinion rediscuss this :) | 23:16 |
| apachelogger | Tonio_: those are not individual apps | 23:16 |
| * apachelogger doesn't like the concept of external download manager | 23:16 | |
| Nightrose | this being what? | 23:16 |
| apachelogger | it's confusing | 23:16 |
| Riddell | can't work out how to get it to start a torrent | 23:16 |
| Tonio_ | apachelogger: well it's konqueror integration is really good | 23:16 |
| Nightrose | if kget by default? | 23:16 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: just open one | 23:16 |
| Nightrose | replacing ktorrent? | 23:16 |
| apachelogger | Tonio_: there is no integratoin | 23:16 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: how? | 23:16 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: file - open I suppose? | 23:16 |
| apachelogger | Tonio_: konqui just throws the files at kget | 23:17 |
| Tonio_ | apachelogger: hu ?? | 23:17 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: there is no such option | 23:17 |
| apachelogger | kget does with them whatever it wants | 23:17 |
| apachelogger | so it is an external download manager and appears as independent app | 23:17 |
| Tonio_ | apachelogger: that's the purpose of a download manager | 23:17 |
| apachelogger | which in my opinion got limited use case and target audience | 23:17 |
| Tonio_ | apachelogger: my browser can crash and my downloads are going fine... | 23:17 |
| Nightrose | +1 | 23:17 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: no clue then | 23:17 |
| yuriy | -1 if it would take up extra CD space | 23:18 |
| yuriy | otherwise I'd have to try it | 23:18 |
| DaSkreech | yuriy: Well the point is to remove ktorrent | 23:18 |
| apachelogger | Tonio_: then the kio stuff should be fixed that the slaves are not bound to the konqueror instance but something more generic kded for example | 23:18 |
| JontheEchidna | kded dies whenever you update packages | 23:18 |
| apachelogger | kdeinit then | 23:18 |
| seele | so are there two things we're discussing? including kget and not including ktorrent? | 23:18 |
| a|wen | yuriy: seems you are gaining 6 mb by the change | 23:18 |
| apachelogger | if that goes down you are boned anyway :P | 23:18 |
| Riddell | doesn't sounds like anyone is convinced at kget | 23:19 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: just choose save as and kget gets the file | 23:19 |
| Riddell | I don't see the advantage for file downloads and it's not intuitive to me for torrent downloads | 23:20 |
| apachelogger | Riddell, Tonio_: I think we should discuss this at next meeting .. giving people time to take a look at kget | 23:20 |
| DaSkreech | Tonio_: I'll flip it what are the arguments for not including ktorrent ? | 23:20 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: I agree it's a different concept.... torrents are seen are standard downloads (opera does that too) | 23:20 |
| seele | i'm dubious that the file manager can provide the necessary information and functionality torrent users are used to | 23:20 |
| Nightrose | +1 seele | 23:20 |
| yuriy | Tonio_: which actually sounds like a good idea to me for a default | 23:21 |
| seele | it's not as simple as enabling a torrent and just letting it run | 23:21 |
| a|wen | but i'd personally much rather have ktorrent ... seems more intuitive to me | 23:21 |
| seele | you care about having information about the seeds, which pieces youve downloaded, throttling, etc. | 23:21 |
| JontheEchidna | ktorrent++ | 23:21 |
| Tonio_ | DaSkreech: well I'd like a download manger for konqueror, and since it also does torrents.... | 23:21 |
| seele | Tonio_: i think we should evaluate kget as a download manager only | 23:21 |
| seele | not as a replacement for ktorrent | 23:21 |
| seele | if it happens to get included and it does torrents too.. good for it | 23:22 |
| Tonio_ | seele: I don't care which pieces are downloaded as long as it's not finished... :) | 23:22 |
| a|wen | +1 seele | 23:22 |
| Nightrose | Tonio_: for videos it can matter | 23:22 |
| Nightrose | you might be able to watch the beginning | 23:22 |
| Tonio_ | seele: and I'm not that a fan of the search part of ktorrent, really confusing | 23:22 |
| Tonio_ | Nightrose: that's a good point, indeed | 23:22 |
| yuriy | ok tried out kget and i'm confused | 23:22 |
| seele | how big is kget? | 23:23 |
| Tonio_ | well, I propose people to try it as a download manager, and rediscus this next time | 23:23 |
| yuriy | where is my download? | 23:23 |
| JontheEchidna | +1 on rediscuss | 23:23 |
| a|wen | seele: ~ 3,5M | 23:23 |
| Tonio_ | about benefits of download malager and so on | 23:23 |
| Tonio_ | yuriy: kget in the systray | 23:23 |
| DaSkreech | Tonio_: how do I do plugins for Kget ? | 23:23 |
| yuriy | also i prefer the plasma notification things over some extra window | 23:23 |
| Riddell | yuriy++ | 23:23 |
| rgreening | hey. sry about being late. lappy issues | 23:24 |
| apachelogger | +1 | 23:24 |
| yuriy | the download manager that always pops up is one of the things I don't like about firefox | 23:24 |
| apachelogger | rgreening: hola | 23:24 |
| Tonio_ | yuriy: I agree on that point, but I think to remember that's on kget schedule | 23:24 |
| jjesse | +1 to yuriy | 23:24 |
| Nightrose | yuriy: you can use allinonesidebar for that | 23:24 |
| Nightrose | works good for me | 23:24 |
| Riddell | I'll try kget for now but I'm sceptical | 23:24 |
| jjesse | i had issues trying to download torretns with kget, and found ktorrent was just much easier | 23:24 |
| Riddell | we should move on | 23:24 |
| * apachelogger thinks the only sane approach to downloads is what google chrome does :P | 23:24 | |
| Tonio_ | I tend to agree my mother wouldn't need this kind of tool on the other hand | 23:25 |
| Riddell | Tonio_: tabs in kopete? | 23:25 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: lots of people don't have super bandwidth | 23:25 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: consider they can download part of an iso every day for example, that can be usefull | 23:25 |
| * DaSkreech likes tabs. I don't know Ubuntu guidelines or KDE HIB well enough. | 23:25 | |
| Tonio_ | let's move on | 23:25 |
| Tonio_ | it was discussed and decided in the past to activate tabs in kopete by default | 23:25 |
| jjesse | what's next on the agenda? | 23:25 |
| Tonio_ | so I did again with kde4 | 23:25 |
| Riddell | tabs in kopete | 23:25 |
| Tonio_ | but I received criticisms :) | 23:26 |
| DaSkreech | jjesse: tabs in Kopete | 23:26 |
| * Nightrose uses tabs in kopeet | 23:26 | |
| jjesse | ah wasn't paying attention | 23:26 |
| jjesse | sry | 23:26 |
| seele | as opposed to opening new chats in separate windows? | 23:26 |
| DaSkreech | Any examples of critique ? | 23:26 |
| a|wen | seele: yes | 23:26 |
| yuriy | my 2c - I don't use tabs in pidgin | 23:26 |
| Nightrose | seele: jep | 23:26 |
| Tonio_ | DaSkreech: that sucks !! | 23:26 |
| Tonio_ | kind of things like that :) | 23:26 |
| DaSkreech | Tonio_: That's what I thought | 23:26 |
| Tonio_ | strange since nobody complained with kde3.... but that's it :) | 23:26 |
| Tonio_ | DaSkreech: yep ;) | 23:26 |
| seele | what is the kopete default? | 23:26 |
| DaSkreech | Tonio_: I propose that it's turned off for the betas and see what the response it | 23:26 |
| seele | upstream default | 23:27 |
| DaSkreech | is | 23:27 |
| Tonio_ | seele: no tabs | 23:27 |
| a|wen | seele: 1 chat 1 window | 23:27 |
| apachelogger | seele: new window per chat | 23:27 |
| DaSkreech | No tabs | 23:27 |
| seele | hmm | 23:27 |
| Tonio_ | seele: but that's very msn.... | 23:27 |
| Riddell | I can't get it to do tabs | 23:27 |
| DaSkreech | I currently have it grouped by protocol which Seems to give me management as well as sanity | 23:27 |
| a|wen | +1 for tabs here | 23:27 |
| Tonio_ | seele: most IM do have tabs by default | 23:27 |
| JontheEchidna | +1 for keeping tabs | 23:27 |
| a|wen | Riddell: it is under behaviour | 23:27 |
| DaSkreech | How about we turn it off for the betas and see the response | 23:28 |
| a|wen | (the option placement is pretty counter-intuitive imo) | 23:28 |
| apachelogger | having used the tab approach I have the feeling it gets in my way most of the time, though I am not exactly much of a im user anyway :) | 23:28 |
| rgreening | KDE has tabs by dfalt in most apps, +1 for being consistant | 23:28 |
| DaSkreech | I'm thinking that the people who don't like tabs are being vocal but the majority do like it | 23:28 |
| seele | DaSkreech: that doesnt guarantee we will see a response | 23:28 |
| apachelogger | DaSkreech: we had it turned off for intrepid | 23:28 |
| Tonio_ | a|wen: yep, very bad to set :) | 23:28 |
| seele | DaSkreech: and if they are upgrades, then the previous settings will hold | 23:28 |
| DaSkreech | seele: I know but I'm betting we will | 23:28 |
| apachelogger | DaSkreech: and did recive _no_ whatsoever response | 23:28 |
| apachelogger | like no one noticed the tabs were gone :P | 23:28 |
| DaSkreech | apachelogger: So people didn't say anything about not having tabs but were quite vocal about having them? | 23:29 |
| Tonio_ | seele: hum no since that's in KDS, so changing must change for most people, but as you said, they may just not complain | 23:29 |
| apachelogger | DaSkreech: yes | 23:29 |
| DaSkreech | That's interesting | 23:29 |
| DaSkreech | I would guess no tabs then | 23:30 |
| Tonio_ | DaSkreech: a couple did, including you :) not the all earth came to me complaining :) | 23:30 |
| apachelogger | well, the amount of feedback is not really something to bind a decision on IMHO | 23:30 |
| DaSkreech | apachelogger: and this was without window grouping ? | 23:30 |
| * yuriy thinks a forum poll would be nice | 23:30 | |
| Tonio_ | my point is that most kde apps have tabs | 23:30 |
| JontheEchidna | consistency ftw | 23:30 |
| seele | yes they do | 23:30 |
| Tonio_ | most IM have tabs by default (pidgin, adium on osx, trillian on windows, YIM....) | 23:30 |
| DaSkreech | Tonio_: I agree that tabs are better for many reasons | 23:30 |
| JontheEchidna | gnome3 is all about tabs anyway :P | 23:30 |
| Tonio_ | no tabs is the very msn way to work, only | 23:30 |
| DaSkreech | but if people freak outat them ...:-/ | 23:30 |
| Tonio_ | DaSkreech: our users are used to them for 3 years now :) | 23:31 |
| Nightrose | vote? | 23:31 |
| DaSkreech | JontheEchidna: by the end of Gran Canria We will have clocks with tabs on them | 23:31 |
| Tonio_ | and msn users..... still use msn on windows :) | 23:31 |
| Riddell | ooh I think I got it working | 23:31 |
| DaSkreech | Ha ha :) | 23:31 |
| Nightrose | hehe | 23:31 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: what ? msn ? :) | 23:31 |
| Riddell | tabs | 23:31 |
| DaSkreech | tabs | 23:31 |
| Nightrose | so who is for keeping tabs? | 23:31 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: AH ! | 23:31 |
| Lure | +1 for tabs | 23:31 |
| * Nightrose is | 23:31 | |
| JontheEchidna | +1 for tabs | 23:31 |
| a|wen | +1 for tabs | 23:31 |
| Tonio_ | +1 for tabs | 23:31 |
| seele | +1 tabs | 23:31 |
| DaSkreech | I'm for it in principle | 23:32 |
| Riddell | it still has two windows though which seems to lose the point | 23:32 |
| alleeJaunty | +1 for tabs | 23:32 |
| DaSkreech | Riddell: Buddy list doesn't cont :-P | 23:32 |
| DaSkreech | count | 23:32 |
| Tonio_ | Riddell: the contact one and the chat one, as it always used to :) | 23:32 |
| seele | Riddell: kopete is a service app, the main window disappears | 23:32 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: better than 5 I supppose ;-) | 23:32 |
| Lure | Riddell: ++ on that - would also like to have main window as tab | 23:32 |
| Riddell | ok we seem to be in favour of tabs | 23:32 |
| Riddell | what's next | 23:33 |
| Riddell | rickspencer3 wanted to say hi | 23:33 |
| JontheEchidna | \o | 23:33 |
| apachelogger | o/ | 23:33 |
| Lure | rickspencer3: hi! | 23:33 |
| Nightrose | hi rickspencer3 | 23:33 |
| seele | that's a strange way of saying hello | 23:33 |
| rickspencer3 | hi! | 23:33 |
| DaSkreech | Lure: Eh? buddy lista as a tab? | 23:33 |
| a|wen | hi rickspencer3 | 23:33 |
| * seele waves | 23:33 | |
| seele | greeting by proxy | 23:33 |
| Riddell | rickspencer3 is the new manager of Canonical's desktop team | 23:33 |
| DaSkreech | Hoorah! | 23:33 |
| Nightrose | aha! | 23:33 |
| Lure | DaSkreech: I would love it, but it is not available | 23:33 |
| jjesse | yay | 23:33 |
| rickspencer3 | seele: I was waiting my turn | 23:34 |
| rickspencer3 | :) | 23:34 |
| DaSkreech | Lure: this is KDE there must be a checkbox somewhere :) | 23:34 |
| seele | rickspencer3: we're not as organized in our meetings as yours | 23:34 |
| rickspencer3 | I'll be pushier next time ;) | 23:34 |
| Nightrose | tell us a little about yourself rickspencer3? | 23:34 |
| rickspencer3 | ooh | 23:34 |
| DaSkreech | Lure: actaully Kopete buddy list is KDE3 might be an issue | 23:34 |
| rickspencer3 | well, this is like my 8th week at Canonical | 23:34 |
| * apachelogger kicks DaSkreech | 23:34 | |
| rickspencer3 | So I'm still learning the ropes here | 23:34 |
| jjesse | there are no ropes here | 23:34 |
| rickspencer3 | my background in software started with usability, before I got into program management and then engineering management | 23:35 |
| * DaSkreech puts a sticker on the footprint | 23:35 | |
| Nightrose | welcome then :) | 23:35 |
| rickspencer3 | I'm just psyched about the job, and want to learn as much as I can about Kubuntu now | 23:35 |
| Nightrose | hehe good start | 23:36 |
| jjesse | all you need to know is it is the best | 23:36 |
| rickspencer3 | It's really a remarkable community and an awesome product | 23:36 |
| * DaSkreech prods nixternal to provide docs | 23:36 | |
| Riddell | so if people have question or comments about stuff canonical is doing, rick is a good chap to go to | 23:36 |
| Tonio_ | rickspencer3: :) | 23:36 |
| * DaSkreech does | 23:36 | |
| DaSkreech | but post stickers | 23:36 |
| rickspencer3 | Hi Tonio_, we met at UDS, no? | 23:36 |
| Tonio_ | rickspencer3: absolutly :) | 23:36 |
| rickspencer3 | same with seele, I believe | 23:36 |
| * jjesse thinks it is a good idea DaSkreech didn't rmeember he does docs for kubuntu as well | 23:36 | |
| seele | rickspencer3: i was definitely there | 23:36 |
| seele | hehe | 23:36 |
| jjesse | i was there as well | 23:36 |
| rickspencer3 | very nice | 23:36 |
| Tonio_ | rickspencer3: nice to see your real interest in kde and kubuntu :) | 23:37 |
| * Nightrose wasn't there :( | 23:37 | |
| * JontheEchidna wasn't at UDS sadly :( | 23:37 | |
| DaSkreech | jjesse: I did but I blame nixternal | 23:37 |
| * nhandler wasn't there | 23:37 | |
| Riddell | as was nixternal and rgreening | 23:37 |
| Riddell | Nightrose, JontheEchidna: next time! | 23:37 |
| Nightrose | yay | 23:37 |
| rickspencer3 | that was my first week at Canonical, so I kind of blocked out most of it :) | 23:37 |
| Nightrose | ;-) | 23:37 |
| jjesse | that's another rickspencer3 needs to learn, "when in doubt blame nixternal " | 23:37 |
| apachelogger | hehe | 23:37 |
| rickspencer3 | but I mostly blame nixternal for that | 23:37 |
| jjesse | nice | 23:37 |
| apachelogger | \o/ | 23:37 |
| Nightrose | you leran quickly rickspencer3 ;-) | 23:37 |
| Nightrose | *learn | 23:38 |
| JontheEchidna | !nixternal | 23:38 |
| ubottu | Oh no! The pointy-clicky Windows7 lover has arrived! He's rumoured to be giving out free money, and help on the MIRC client too! <nixternal> I LOVE MIRC!!! | 23:38 |
| jjesse | awesome, changed it to windows7 | 23:38 |
| Riddell | last agenda item is about stickers | 23:38 |
| * jjesse cackles | 23:38 | |
| Nightrose | what? | 23:38 |
| Nightrose | mirc? | 23:38 |
| Nightrose | sinde when does he do mirc? | 23:38 |
| Nightrose | *since | 23:38 |
| seele | thanks rickspencer3 | 23:38 |
| yuriy | for those interested in tabs stats: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1053450 | 23:38 |
| * nhandler wants a sticker | 23:38 | |
| yuriy | so, stickers? | 23:38 |
| Tonio_ | JontheEchidna: I'm probably a bigger windows lover than nixternal will ever be ;) | 23:38 |
| yuriy | what sort of stickers are we talking about? | 23:38 |
| DaSkreech | I have no clue what this is about but +4.2 stickers | 23:39 |
| * Lure wants stickers for new thinkpad I get in 2 weeks | 23:39 | |
| * apachelogger hands rickspencer3 a basket filled with welcome cookies | 23:39 | |
| Tonio_ | JontheEchidna: and that's not a joke :) | 23:39 |
| Riddell | the marketing chap at Canonical says he can send out stickers to active Kubuntu people as a wee thank you | 23:39 |
| Riddell | the stickers are on shop.canonical.com | 23:39 |
| rgreening | kubu stickers == awesum | 23:39 |
| DaSkreech | Tonio_: You are? I blame nixternal for that | 23:39 |
| Riddell | so e-mail me your postal address with STICKER in the header and I'll pass that on | 23:39 |
| * rickspencer3 slides a cookie out, slides basket under desk without sharing | 23:39 | |
| seele | rickspencer3 is now uninvited! | 23:39 |
| Tonio_ | DaSkreech: haha, I used to be a microsoft MCSE and active directory sysadmin :) I still use windows xp/vista and 7 too :) | 23:39 |
| apachelogger | ah | 23:39 |
| apachelogger | no worries | 23:39 |
| * apachelogger bot tons of cookies today | 23:40 | |
| jjesse | yay i want me a sticker | 23:40 |
| yuriy | these? http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=418 | 23:40 |
| alleeJaunty | rickspencer3: when there is backend + gnome/kde frontend, is it one of your task to organize that both frontends get the same love? | 23:40 |
| Arby | woo stickers :) | 23:40 |
| Nightrose | stickers rock | 23:40 |
| * a|wen is all for stickers | 23:40 | |
| Tonio_ | same with me, all +1 for the stickers :) | 23:40 |
| rickspencer3 | alleeJaunty: deep question | 23:41 |
| * nhandler sent his email | 23:41 | |
| Riddell | yuriy: yes | 23:41 |
| yuriy | another thing on stickers | 23:41 |
| * DaSkreech rolls in stickers and nomnomnoms cookies | 23:41 | |
| yuriy | I don't know what the plans are currently on reviving the aluminum case badge project | 23:41 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: what mail address should we send to? | 23:41 |
| yuriy | but for if and when that happens | 23:41 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: jriddell@ubuntu .com | 23:41 |
| jjesse | all of them | 23:41 |
| apachelogger | okies | 23:41 |
| yuriy | I'd like to know if there is significant interest in kubuntu ones | 23:41 |
| JontheEchidna | aiee | 23:41 |
| JontheEchidna | quassel just memleak'd on me :( | 23:42 |
| jjesse | i want | 23:42 |
| JontheEchidna | 40% of 640 MB | 23:42 |
| alleeJaunty | rickspencer3: yeah, we miss someone that keeps an eye on all desktop flavours ;) | 23:42 |
| apachelogger | EgS: ^ | 23:42 |
| Arby | yuriy +1 from me on case badges | 23:42 |
| apachelogger | EgS: go fix your code :P | 23:42 |
| nhandler | Riddell: I sent to whatever address the Contact this User feature on LP used | 23:42 |
| yuriy | so if your LoCo is interested, please email me | 23:42 |
| Lure | Riddell: jr@kubuntu.org also works, right? | 23:43 |
| yuriy | we need a large order in order for it to be worth it and to get the price down | 23:43 |
| Riddell | Lure: I belive so | 23:43 |
| Riddell | any other agenda items? | 23:43 |
| yuriy | large order as in thousands | 23:43 |
| apachelogger | blizzz: read what yuriy said? | 23:43 |
| apachelogger | Riddell: oh, yes, I think | 23:43 |
| DaSkreech | Pepper rickspencer3 ? | 23:43 |
| Riddell | I'm in berlin next week at the canonical team sprint, so probably not around as much in the evenings as usual | 23:44 |
| blizzz | apachelogger: i? when? | 23:44 |
| DaSkreech | rickspencer3: You are the manager of the Desktop Team? | 23:44 |
| apachelogger | blizzz: backlog | 23:44 |
| rickspencer3 | DaSkreech: yes | 23:44 |
| DaSkreech | What is the objective of the Desktop Team ? | 23:44 |
| Riddell | DaSkreech: the Canonical Desktop Team (as opposed to Ubuntu one) | 23:44 |
| rickspencer3 | I'm sure Riddell shudders every time he hears me say it too | 23:44 |
| Lure | rickspencer3: like "a boss of Riddell"? | 23:44 |
| Lure | rickspencer3: then we have to talk... | 23:45 |
| DaSkreech | :-D | 23:45 |
| * Lure hides | 23:45 | |
| apachelogger | ^_^ | 23:45 |
| yuriy | ok, i'm off | 23:45 |
| DaSkreech | bye yuriy | 23:45 |
| seele | 'night yuriy | 23:45 |
| nhandler | Bye yuriy | 23:45 |
| Tonio_ | Lure: haha :) | 23:45 |
| apachelogger | one thing: _EVERYONE_ who isn't native english speaker pretty pretty please install Jaunty (if you install Jaunty) in your native language! | 23:45 |
| Riddell | rickspencer3 isn't the technical lead by the way so don't go baffling him with code questions | 23:45 |
| DaSkreech | Get a cookie | 23:45 |
| Riddell | apachelogger: good idea | 23:45 |
| DaSkreech | No no code questions :) | 23:45 |
| rickspencer3 | feel free to ask me coding questions, I'm sure I can give you wrong information | 23:45 |
| DaSkreech | Just wanted to get a handle for what he's managing | 23:45 |
| blizzz | apachelogger: what is aluminum case badge? however, since our target is becoming loco... | 23:45 |
| apachelogger | I will upload 4.2.0's l10n packages within the next 2 days, so they will be in the next language pack updates | 23:46 |
| apachelogger | We should prevent issues like the ones we had with intrepid at all costs | 23:46 |
| Riddell | meeting over I think, thanks all, back to #kubuntu-devel | 23:46 |
| * Nightrose waves | 23:46 | |
| Riddell | blizzz: that was yuriy's thing | 23:47 |
| a|wen | wohoo | 23:47 |
| rickspencer3 | DaSkreech: I didn't want to blow off your question, we can hop on #kubuntu-devel ofr a few minutes | 23:47 |
| rickspencer3 | if you want | 23:47 |
| blizzz | yuriy: same question on you | 23:47 |
| DaSkreech | Sure | 23:47 |
| alleeJaunty | rickspencer3: see you there | 23:47 |
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