directhexyes, because everyone reads the manual00:00
RAOFdirecthex: Go formulate an ubuntu-devel-discuss message, then :)00:02
directhex"digg this if users suck"00:03
=== pgraner is now known as pgraner-afk
slangasekwho here can test a powerpc-specific SRU? (bug #220890)00:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 220890 in python-apt "[hardy] software-properties-gtk doesn't recognize (nor know about) ports.ubuntu.com" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22089000:41
maxbThe langpacks in intrepid currently have a higher version than in jaunty, is that an issue, or a normal state of affairs at this point in the cycle?00:45
cjwatsonI wouldn't get too worried, but obviously it needs to be fixed before release00:46
TheMusoslangasek: When I do powerpc related work this afternoon (i.e after work/canonical work), I'll take a peak00:46
cjwatsonArneGoetje: ^- plans for a jaunty langpack update?00:46
cjwatsonwe could copy the intrepid-updates ones to jaunty, in principle, but I don't want to do that because there's a Soyuz bug that means architecture-independent packages copied that way end up not showing up for armel00:47
cjwatsonthough that's 299448 which is fix-committed so it's possible it was fixed in the recent rollout00:47
cjwatsonlooks like it ought to be; I can give it a try tomorrow00:50
cjwatsonbut we'll need jaunty langpacks anyway so it'll just be to stop people being surprised :)00:50
=== nhandler_ is now known as nhandler
slangasekseriously, what kind of boolean pervert came up with the idea of calling these things "killswitches" that turn your antenna off when they're on and on when they're off?01:41
pwnguinthe same guy that named the xserver option "DontZap"01:42
slangaseknah, pretty sure that guy died of old age already01:42
pwnguinslangasek: just use the phrase "killswitch engage". its 23 percent more brutal01:42
cjwatsonmy killswitch is labelled 0 for wireless-off and 1 for wireless-on01:46
cjwatsonso +1 for Dell's sanity, I guess01:46
slangasekphysically labelled?01:47
sakrasemangati'm newbie from indonesia and i need the study kernel compilation process on ubuntu please guide me...01:49
cjwatsonslangasek: yes01:57
cjwatsonsakrasemangat: this isn't really the right channel for advising new developers; you might start by reading the kernel team's wiki, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam01:57
cjwatsonsakrasemangat: also reading the various links from http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment, since many of those general principles apply to the particular case of the kernel01:58
sakrasemangatcjwatson, ok thank's...02:07
=== freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying
junyertrying a third time :P03:04
junyerdoes anyone here work on the autofs/autofs5 packages?03:04
ScottKjunyer: Just ask your question.03:05
slangasekthe answer to the initial question is "no", no one from Ubuntu works on the autofs5 package, it's synced unmodified from Debian03:07
slangasek(which is not to say that this is the wrong place to ask if you're wanting to discuss development issues in the package)03:09
junyerwell, autofs v4 is essentially dead as far as upstream is concerned03:09
anderskThe current Intrepid/Jaunty autofs package has an Ubuntu patch that was added in bug 111612.03:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 111612 in autofs "The auto.net script that comes with autofs is broken" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11161203:09
junyerso i'm wondering if/when support (in the form of a maintained autofs package) will cease03:10
slangaseksupport for the autofs package will probably cease when the Debian maintainer gets rid of it, or when an Ubuntu developer notices that it's bit-rotted to the point that we should prefer the autofs5 package instead03:11
ScottKslangasek: I've got an odd problem here that I've no idea how to troubleshoot well enough to even file a useful bug.  On intrepid I've got a hard drive that when I try to write to it as a user, I'm told the disk is full, but it's not.  df -k shows more blocks existing that used, but 0 available.  I can write to the disk as root and I can delete stuff as a user, but not write new stuff.  Suggestions?03:12
slangasekScottK: ext3 reserved blocks?03:12
junyerokay, so i should probably ping the debian maintainer then03:12
slangasekjunyer: he's the one at the wheel on those packages, yes. :)03:13
junyer(although he didn't respond to my mail yet, so i might have to hunt him down on irc)03:13
ScottKslangasek: How would I know?  When I delete files the number 'used' goes down, but Available stays consistently 0.03:13
slangasekScottK: tune2fs /dev03:13
anderskSee the tune2fs manpage, -m option.03:14
ScottKLooking even03:14
StevenKScottK: Deleting files but available staying at 0 certainly points to you being over the reserved blocks percentage03:15
* slangasek nods03:15
* ScottK wonders how he got there.03:15
slangasekthe default reserved blocks are ridiculously large on today's large disks, it really ought to be logarithmic03:16
slangasekScottK: you wrote a bunch of stuff as a user, then root pushed you over the limit :)03:16
StevenKFor things like /home and /srv and such, I will run tune2fs -m 0 after mkfs'ing them03:16
StevenKActually, for things where I'm the only user, or I can trust everyone with an account.03:17
ScottKWell let me go find something big to delete ...03:17
slangasekStevenK: well, for /home there's not much reason for root to have reserved space, neh?03:17
slangasekScottK: reducing the reserved count is easier :)03:18
ScottKReduced it to 1 and it still says 0 available03:18
StevenKslangasek: Not usually. :-)03:18
slangasek(though if it's not obvious how root pushed you over the limit, maybe there are leaky logs)03:18
slangasekScottK: mm, if tune2fs -l confirms, then /that/ might be a sign of fs corruption...03:19
slangasekassuming that when you deleted stuff, the used count went down and stayed down03:20
ScottKI'm guessing "Couldn't find valid filesystem superblock" is bad.03:20
ScottKI'm also guessing I'm into it's not worth the trouble, just start over territory.03:21
ScottKIs there anything useful for a bug I can do first?03:22
slangasekif you're not going to cry over the data, yes, that's start-over territory03:22
slangasekif you have kernel logs that show it getting corrupted somehow03:22
StevenKActually, it's recoverable03:22
StevenKYou can run mkfs with -n, which will tell you where the backup superblocks are stored03:22
ScottKStevenK: I'm open to suggestions ...03:22
StevenKAnd then point tune2fs at one of the backup superblocks03:23
slangasekcould've been a hardware failure, a kernel bug, someone trying to dial out on the hard drive by mistake, ...03:23
StevenKAnd fsck *really* soon03:23
slangasekso unless you know how it got corrupted, hard to get a useful bug report out of it03:23
StevenKAnd it may not be a software bug03:23
ScottKWell I can try to get the kernel logs off.03:23
ScottKNow I guess I really need to find the CD drive for this laptop.03:26
StevenKScottK: One large partition, and it's /, I'm guessing?03:27
slangasek... does strace work for anyone in jaunty?03:28
ScottKOf course03:29
ScottKStevenK: ^^^03:29
StevenKScottK: Bleh, this is the situation that having one large partition on / is bad :-)03:32
ScottKFortunately there's nothing critical on it.03:32
ScottKThere's a few things it'd be nice to save.03:32
* LaserJock makes some backups just in case it's contagious03:33
ScottKI have it up on the network now, so I'm going to see if I can sftp to it....03:33
StevenKI would sftp *from* it03:33
StevenKSince that wouldn't try and write anything03:33
ScottKTrying that.03:35
* ScottK gets to practice his rusty command line sftp skills.03:35
charlie-tcaslangasek: apparently, that was a bad thing to try03:37
slangasekcharlie-tca: hmm?03:37
charlie-tcaI ran strace on a 64-bit jaunty. It locked everything up and I had to go to a tty and kill it03:37
BsimsCan anyone point me to a tutorial to build multi binary debs... I want to package and host kde 3.5x built against Ubuntu Current...03:37
slangasekit hasn't been crashing anything for me, except for itself03:38
BsimsI am not entirely ignorant of dpkg but need help and the Debian New maintaners guide doesn't go into multi package debs03:38
maxbBsims: #ubuntu-motu is more appropriate for learning-how-to-package questions03:38
* Bsims smiles thanks maxb 03:38
ArneGoetjecjwatson: after all remaining buggy translations have been fixed by jtv (will happen these days), we will generate a full export for jaunty and updates for hardy and intrepid. I hope those to be ready on Monday, then I will do the updates on the sprint.03:55
StevenKScottK: How goes the recovery?03:57
ScottKStevenK: sftp'ing my heart out.03:58
StevenKcd /chest_cavity03:58
StevenKscp heart donor:03:58
ScottKFound some un-backed up photos I'd forgotten about ...03:58
ScottKBut they're transferring just fine, so no it's just a matter of doing it.03:58
StevenKScottK: Mmmm. Avoid writing to the disk, if you can03:59
ScottKJust doing a lot of sftp put.03:59
ScottKGoing in the order of how much I care too.03:59
TheMusoslangasek: https://launchpad.net/bugs/220890 verified.04:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 220890 in python-apt "[hardy] software-properties-gtk doesn't recognize (nor know about) ports.ubuntu.com" [Undecided,In progress]04:03
slangasekTheMuso: thanks!  You used the test case from the bug description?04:04
TheMusoslangasek: Yes.04:04
slangasekbryce: I've confirmed that my touchpad issue is software (gpm works fine on console); where should I file the bug report?04:22
calcmaybe i can blow up the nightly cd later tonight >:-)04:24
* calc is doing a rebuild with fresh chroot to make sure everything is working properly04:25
ScottKslangasek and StevenK: Thanks for the help.  I got everything I need.  Now if I can find the CD drive ...04:26
StevenKScottK: We won't come over to help you look ...04:27
slangasekScottK: glad to hear :)04:27
LaserJockStevenK: that could be a long trip04:35
=== calc_ is now known as calc
bryceslangasek: most likely it's a bug in the xinput stuff so should be against xorg-server04:36
bryceslangasek: subscribe me to the bug and I'll try to follow up on it04:36
StevenKbryce: I noticed that synaptics thought my touchscreen on my Q1 was touchpad, is that known?04:37
StevenKwas a touchpad04:37
ScottKThis will be my first Intrepid fresh install....04:44
LaserJockScottK: really? I think I've done about 5-6 so far04:45
ScottKIt's all been upgrades from Hardy until now.04:45
LaserJockI generally reinstall about every 2-3 months04:45
LaserJockI think I've done 3 Jaunty reinstalls so far04:46
* ScottK still has one Dapper desktop that was installed before Dapper's release.04:46
LaserJockthat's why I don't like UUID too much04:46
LaserJockI gott fix things after each install04:47
maxbLaserJock: but why? I've gone dapper-edgy-feisty-gutsy-hardy-intrepid without a reinstall04:47
LaserJockI should just not UUIDs but I hate going against the grain04:47
LaserJockmaxb: because stuff usually starts breaking04:47
LaserJockor I want to try something different04:48
maxbWould be all the way to jaunty, but I needed to change i386->amd6404:48
LaserJockI should probably try to slow down though, I'm afraid of wearing out the hard drive in my laptop04:48
LaserJockit can't be good to keep installing and reinstalling on the same 6GB04:49
LaserJockbugger, I never can seem to get reportbug to send stuff04:50
LaserJockisn't it supposed to use a Debian SMTP host?04:50
StevenKIf you configure it too04:51
LaserJockwell, it keeps timing out04:52
LaserJockI have: smtphost bugs.debian.org in .reportbugrc04:53
LaserJockmaybe rather than worrying about reportbug I should make up a BTS cheat sheet and manually do the emails04:54
LaserJockI end up copy-n-pasting anyway04:55
ScottKLaserJock: When you normally send mail, what mail server do you submit to?04:56
LaserJockScottK: I just use gmail04:56
LaserJockI don't have any local client that I use04:56
LaserJockI guess I could dig up the Gmail SMTP server04:57
ScottKYou can probably convince reportbug to do that too or set up a local postfix to do it (there are decent how-tos)04:57
LaserJockI think I have exim4 install because of stupid sbuild04:57
LaserJockbut I don't do anything with it I don't think04:57
LaserJockI really dislike having a MTA on my machine04:58
ScottK243 updates are available ...05:11
mrooneykirkland: ping!05:33
=== hyperair__ is now known as hyperair
bbsi do kernel work05:40
bbsis there a spot that the ubuntu kernel is discussed?05:40
greg-gbbs: #ubuntu-kernel , appropriately enough05:41
bbsgreg-g: figured it out05:43
bbsasked stupid question05:43
hyperairasac: could bug #248705 be considered for SRU? it seems that 2.24.3-0ubuntu1 was uploaded to intrepid-updates, but not 2.24.3-0ubuntu2, and the changes between the two versions are only that which fixed the said bug.05:52
ubottuLaunchpad bug 248705 in evolution-data-server "Evolution Exchange does not authenticate to Exchange servers with a relative path in the form action, e.g. "owaauth.dll"" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24870505:52
hyperairasac: in addition, you were the one who uploaded 2.24.3-0ubuntu205:52
mrooneyanyone know how to switch to a virtual terminal in a virtualbox instance?05:53
mrooneyUsing ctrl+alt+# switches the host even if the guest is grabbing keys05:53
hyperairmrooney: ssh05:57
smosermrooney, http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=9615&sid=c79dce75d9b09436397acb59992a316f05:57
smoser"should be" right control F105:57
smoserthat is if you actually meant ctrl-alt-F# , maybe you didn't though05:58
hyperairhttp://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/41 this says it too05:58
mrooneysmoser: yeah, did :)05:58
superm1TheMuso, this was verified with an intrepid disk, so unless they were missing in intrepid too N/A.  I'll reverify with a jaunty daily tomorrow.  I was going to add more stuff to the bug, but launchpad went into maintenance mode 5 or so minutes after I filed it. cjwatson i'll get that added from the jaunty daily as it will be more useful06:45
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
=== jcm is now known as jonmasters
dholbachgood morning07:06
bryceheya dholbach07:33
dholbachhiya bryce07:34
dholbachhi thekorn, ara, Koon! :)07:35
arahey dholbach, morning :-)07:35
bryceStevenK: not sure, I've not been following synaptics too closely; check the bug tracker to see if it's known.  If it is, probably needs forwarding to bugzilla.freedesktop.org next.07:36
thekornmorning dholbach07:40
pittiGood morning07:43
dholbachhi pitti07:45
pittisuperm1, slangasek: so after those recent hal-info commits, what's actually left in hotkey-setup? just the module option for the thinkpad? (which should become a modprobe.d script)07:51
pittihey dholbach *hug*07:51
* dholbach hugs pitti back07:52
slangasekpitti: the options that can't currently be set with modprobe..?07:52
slangasekit twiddles bits in /sys07:52
pittiright, but modprobe install scripts can do that07:53
pittiwell, either way, I was just curious whether there's anything else left07:53
slangasekwould still have to be a separate script because of the complexity, so I don't know that it's really advantageous to move it to modprobe07:53
pittiso far I'm just aware of that thinkpad module flipping07:53
slangasekthere's also the thinkpad daemon that's run on some hardware, yes07:54
pittislangasek: well, I'd like it to be moved to a modprobe.d script, because then we don't need to penalize every non-thinkpad-laptop user with a no-op init script07:54
pittithat can still be in the hotkey-setup package, if the rest gets stripped out07:54
pittie. g. if all hotkey mappings are migrated now, we should throw them out07:55
slangasek"throw them out" - I think superm1 already did that?07:55
pittioh, so he did!07:55
pitti(didn't follow -changes in the week I was on holiday)07:56
* pitti hugs superm107:56
slangasekI actually started from the other end, so I have a diff here that reduces the ibm.hk to only the essentials, which we can then also get moved over to hal-info sometime soon07:56
slangasekthat leaves the /sys twiddling, the thinkpad_keys daemon (which as a daemon, I think should be managed by an init script...) and one last thing for /proc/acpi/video/*/DOS07:57
pittislangasek: daemon init script> *nod*07:58
pittislangasek: Keybuk might have a better idea about how to start the thinkpad daemon on thinkpad laptops only (i. e. module load triggered), though08:04
slangasekpitti: we could not ship a start link for the init script, by default only calling it via modprobe?08:05
pittislangasek: right08:06
pitti(or just put the start-stop-daemon call into the modprobe.d script itself)08:06
slangasekyeah, I'd rather not do that because it means there's no good way to manage the process08:06
slangasekinvoke-rc.d on upgrades, etc08:06
pittikees: was the hardy-security linux -23.48 based on -23.47 in hardy-proposed? or against -23.46 in hardy-updates?08:08
slangasekdoko_: bug #315770> hmm, but why is libio-socket-ssl-perl needed in main?  checkrdepends shows nothing08:08
ubottuLaunchpad bug 315770 in libtree-dagnode-perl "MIR for libnet-ssleay-perl and dependencies" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31577008:08
pittikees: if the former, it wasn't verified yet, if the latter, it needs to be merged and reuploaded into -proposed08:08
pittijdstrand: ^ or maybe you know08:11
* slangasek wanders bedwards - night, folks08:11
pittislangasek: sleep well!08:12
=== kagou is now known as naingrincheux
=== naingrincheux is now known as kagou
sorenI wish Launchpad would show which archive-admin ACCEPTed stuff, so that I could distribute hugs accordingly.08:36
pittisoren: if you are talking about NEW, look at the archive day mapping on wiki/ArchiveAdministration08:42
sorenpitti: Hm... Yes, I suppose that's a reasonable approximation. The fact that it seems to have happened in the middle of the night suggests that it's someone with different hemispherocity than myself.08:45
* soren hugs StevenK 08:45
pittisoren: he deserves a hug either way :)08:46
sorenQuite so :)08:46
Necrosansoren: I am the official hug accepter here.08:51
NecrosanDole them out as you see fit.08:51
pittilool: rejecing your xine-lib intrepid-proposed upload; it's a merge without merged changelogs (forgot -v), and was perhaps aimed at jaunty?08:54
pittilool: ah, perhaps not at jaunty; either way, changelog needs to explain the changes and link to LP bug #s08:55
kirklandmrooney: pong09:07
evandCan someone else with access to ubuntu-devel process the mailman queue?  My login information is stored in a still-packed computer that's lacking a keyboard at the moment.09:07
BUGabundoevand: lol09:07
BUGabundoevand: you can always retrive it, no?09:07
BUGabundoalthough mailman admin/mod login, aint that easy to get09:08
evandI'd have to ask one of the other individuals with access for the password, or bug IS.09:09
loolpitti: Uh?09:19
pittilool: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/21679435/xine-lib_1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1intrepid1_source.changes09:19
loolpitti: I merged the security update with the current -proposed upload09:19
loolpitti: Ok; so you want a clean .changes?09:19
pittilool: ah, can you then please reupload with using -v?09:19
loolpitti: Should I include the original -proposed upload as well?09:20
pittilool: yes, please do09:20
loolActually I'm not sure I have it anymore09:20
loolpitti: Hold on before you reject please09:21
loolToo late09:21
pittilool: I rejected it already, but I can fish it out of the rejected queue09:21
loolpitti: If it's not too long, that would be good09:21
pittilool: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+queue?queue_state=4&queue_text=xine-lib09:21
loolpitti: Will you also process hardy's unapproved today?09:22
pittilool: yes, I'm at it09:22
pittilool: can you access that page?09:25
pittiI'm not sure whether it's restricted to ~ubuntu-archive09:25
pittiif so, I'll fish it out for you09:25
loolpitti: Pushing xine-lib_1.1.15-0ubuntu3.1intrepid1.changes again with the initial -proposed upload, the security merge, and the new -proposed upload in the changes09:25
loolpitti: it's fine I can access it alright09:25
loolJust finished the new upload09:26
Keybukpitti: why do we have yet another daemon for it at all?09:28
pittiKeybuk: I don't know at all what this is doing; but launching it through a modprobe.d script isntead of rc2.d seems like a good move09:29
Keybukwhy does it exist?09:29
Keybukit sounds like the kind of thing that should be a hal add-on09:30
loolpitti: Thanks for approving xine-lib already09:39
pittilool: thanks for doing it09:39
=== hyper195 is now known as hyperair
doko_slangasek: spamassassin libwww-perl libnet-server-perl libnet-ldap-perl suggest it, but maybe these are more recent changes10:18
slangasekdoko_: only suggest?10:19
slangasekwe don't have a closure over suggests in main10:19
slangaseknor do we want one10:19
doko_slangasek: but it doesn't show up in component mismatches10:19
slangasekdoko_: OTOH, it also doesn't show up in germinate output AFAICS10:22
slangasekdoko_: so either that's a bug in component-mismatches, or the package is only needed on lpia or something?10:23
slangasekdoko_: nope, not needed on any arch - so I think that's a bug in component-mismatches.  Shall I demote it and see?10:24
slangasekdoko_: oh!  found it - libnet-ldap-perl has a Build-Depends-Indep on it, that didn't get reported by checkrdepends10:25
doko_slangasek: yes, the demotion sound sounds nicer :)10:25
slangasekbut maybe we can fix libnet-ldap-perl to not need it...10:25
pittislangasek: I fixed checkrdepends a while ago to also display B-D-I, weird10:26
slangasekpitti: checkrdepends gave me a bunch of errors, e.g., grep-dctrl: /tmp/tmp.ZcOkhX1927/jaunty_restricted_Sources: No such file or directory10:26
slangasekand I was used to getting errors from it the past few times I've used it, so I didn't dig deep enough10:27
pittihm, indeed10:27
pittiwill look at that later10:27
slangasekanyway, libnet-ldap-perl b-d-i seems like a silly reason to pull all those packages into main10:28
pitti/tmp is probably from gunzip -c10:28
slangasekwell, libio-socket-ssl-perl has been in main since dapper or earlier; but why does it suddenly need all this other junk10:30
pittislangasek: seems that there's a newline after 'jaunty', so the command gets split; weird10:31
slangasekhuh, ok10:32
slangasekdoko_, pitti: libnet-ldap-perl only uses libio-socket-ssl-perl for an optional part of its test suite; what do you think about dropping the b-d-i and kicking it (and its deps) to universe?10:33
pittislangasek: if that pulls in a whole lot of further libs, fine for me; if it's just that one, I'd rather promote it10:34
doko_fine for me10:34
=== asac_ is now known as asac
slangasekpitti: there's an MIR right now for the four other perl libs it pulls in10:35
pittislangasek: hm, $T/*_Sources expands to jaunty10:36
pittiaaah, found it10:36
pittislangasek: apparently a cut&paste error from yesterday's rescue operation10:37
alkisgpitti: Me and some other people are looking for a better user management tool. We saw your evaluation of system-config-users: http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com/msg01544.html10:38
slangasekpitti: cheers10:38
pittihave to run out for two or three hours10:38
apwTheMuso, about?10:38
pittialkisg: need to run now, please mail pitti@ubuntu.com10:38
alkisgpitti: ok, ty10:38
slangasekpitti, doko_: interestingly, the only reason libnet-ldap-perl is in main either is because it's explicitly seeded in supported-development ?10:39
doko_hmm, maybe ask the server team?10:40
dholbachhum... where's http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/removals.txt ?10:41
slangasekdholbach: bdmurray was asking after it the other day; I don't know whether he found an answer, but I don't know where that's supposed to come from10:43
TheMusoapw: Yes.10:43
dholbachslangasek: it always was there :)10:43
apwTheMuso, i won't ask what time it is there10:43
dholbachit's even linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/PackageArchive#Removing%20Packages :)10:43
slangasekdholbach: right, but something has to create it. :)10:43
TheMusoapw: 21:43.10:44
slangasekand I don't know what that something is10:44
apwTheMuso, you sync'd alsa-drivers recently with debian10:44
dholbachslangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArchiveAdministration#Removals maybe?10:44
TheMusoapw: Yes but they have a newer revision I need to get to.10:44
slangasekdholbach: no10:44
apwTheMuso, that brought a change to /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base, which commented out the load of oss10:44
apwand that is breaking espeak10:44
slangasekdholbach: we weren't populating it manually - it must have been created by some script, but I don't know what script10:45
TheMusoapw: Oh right, will fix that when I do the merge. Thanks.10:45
apwits already uploaded?10:45
TheMusoapw: No, I need to prepare a merge of 1.0.17a with debian10:45
apwaffecting the jaunty releases, bug #31950510:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 319505 in linux "In Jaunty Alpha3 release 32 bit and 64 bit versions the sound is not work." [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31950510:45
TheMusoso I'll fix it in that.10:45
TheMusoapw: and I am following that bug.10:45
TheMusoapw: thanks for the heads up.10:46
slangasekdoko_: well, we can check with the server team, but they didn't add it; it traces back to the original bzr import of the seeds, so there's no specific rationale :)10:47
apwTheMuso, the change occured cuase of a threat (literally) from the debian kernel team about alsa sharing not working if they were loaded, so i need to work out if that is also true fo rus10:47
TheMusoapw: ok10:47
TheMusoanyway I'm off for the evenin.10:48
TheMusoapw: You got me just in time. :p10:48
apwTheMuso, have a good one, will update the bug with my findings10:48
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
slangasekcjwatson: you don't remember a rationale for the set of perl packages listed in supported-development, do you? :)10:49
cjwatsonArneGoetje: cool, thanks10:54
cjwatsondholbach: removals.txt is no longer relevant because all its data was migrated into Launchpad10:56
cjwatsonslangasek: ^-10:56
cjwatsondholbach: so if you look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/<src> and follow links, you should see the removal reason etc.10:57
cjwatsondholbach: we have a backup copy in case somebody does need the old file, but it shouldn't be necessary any more10:58
dholbachcjwatson: THANKS muchly10:59
dholbachcjwatson: I'll update the docs referring to it11:00
__doc__hi, anybody of you has got a device from 3dconnexion (space ball, navigator etc.?)11:01
cjwatsondholbach: thanks11:02
ogracjwatson, fyi, versatile netboot installer seems to work well in qemu11:06
cjwatsonogra: superb11:13
ograthough ports seems down11:13
ograah, not anymore11:13
cjwatsonogra: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/daily/current/jaunty-alternate-armel.iso managed to spit something out at least11:14
cjwatsonno kernel or initrd on that though11:14
ograyep, i'm just trying that with the netboot installer11:14
ograthough i wanted to try a normal netinstall first11:14
cjwatsonbase-installer might not get kernel selection right11:15
cjwatsonyeah, doesn't look like it uses the metapackages11:15
ograbut it should offer me to go on without kernel, no ?11:15
ografirst i have a different prob though, seems qemu cant resolve11:15
ograhmm, or route ... weird, i can ping the gateway but it doesnt get forwarded11:16
* apw has a blank moment, what was the command which let you edit the src directly and made a patch out of it when you exit'd11:17
cjwatsonogra: it would be useful if you could send me /proc/cpuinfo from that emulated machine11:17
cjwatsonapw: run what-patch first to find out which patch system the package already uses11:18
ogracjwatson, well, it works with my homebrewed kernel usually, i guess its a kernel issue ... i'll try the netinstaller with that one11:18
cjwatsonapw: you generally need to run a command appropriate to the package11:18
cjwatsonogra: no, I want /proc/cpuinfo because base-installer's kernel test suite needs a copy of it :P11:18
ogracjwatson, ah, k, you'll get it :)11:19
cjwatsonapw: 'export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches' and then use quilt normally11:19
cjwatsonapw: that package won't be suitable for the tools that produce a complete copy of the source for you to edit11:19
apwahhh, now that is why people moved to quilt11:19
apwif one is modifying the debian part of a package sync'd from debian (a file in debian which is copied in wholesale) should you be adding that as a patch in the patches directory or just modifying it directly?11:20
cjwatsonjust modify it directly11:21
apwmakes life easy :)11:21
ogracjwatson, http://paste.ubuntu.com/111192/11:22
cjwatsonogra: thanks, pastebin tends to mash tabs though. Could you put it on people?11:23
slangasekKeybuk: udevadm trigger --action=change isn't documented in the --help output, and only --action=add is documented in the manpage...11:24
ogracjwatson, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/arm/qemu/cpuinfo11:25
cjwatsonogra: thanks, grabbed11:41
ogracjwatson, any idea why i cant get over the NAT gw from the VM ?11:41
ograworks if i just bootstrap a system ...11:41
cjwatsonerr, no idea11:42
ograso it seems to be an issue with d-i11:42
cjwatsonmy approach to qemu networking is to hope it works11:42
ograARGH !11:43
* ogra slaps forehead intil it turns red11:44
* ogra makes note to next time read carefully what d-i asks him :P11:44
highvoltagedon't stress, ogra11:44
apwthough it is fun to watch11:45
ograhttp:// is not really liked by the mirror input11:45
hyperairis there a way to get qemu to work with ia64 archs?11:45
hyperairi'm looking for an ia64 buildd11:45
ograits so long ago that i actually used d-i with all these questions :P11:45
hyperairqemubuilder looks promising, but no ia64 support from qemu11:45
asacTheMuso: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/20109106/at-spi_1.25.1-0ubuntu2_1.25.2-0ubuntu1.diff.gz12:05
asacTheMuso: you a) dropped my changelog entry12:05
asacTheMuso: and b) dropped the patch i added12:05
asacTheMuso: without a comment ... has this been applied upstream?12:06
asacTheMuso: i doubt it has been.12:06
ograbah, partman takes ages in qemu12:06
asacTheMuso: debian/patches/05_lp278095_no_environ_access_shutdown.patch12:06
asacTheMuso: can you readd that? i receive crash reports on firefox again :)12:06
asacTheMuso: also please readd my changelog entry ... so i dont have to hunt that info on launchpad :=)12:07
asacTheMuso: alternatively let me know and i can do this ;)12:21
=== warp10_ is now known as warp10
seb128mvo: could you look to bug #321919?12:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 321919 in evolution-exchange "package evolution-exchange 2.24.2-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: Package is in a very bad inconsistent state - you should" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32191912:40
ogracjwatson, base install in qemu is almost done, would be helpful to have ports.ubuntu.com in the preseed file somehow (and indeed the ubuntu-ports dir)12:58
cjwatsonogra: it should detect it automatically. Which bit didn't detect it?13:03
cjwatson(the design is that this does not require preseeding)13:03
ograoops, console setup just trashed the d-i frames13:03
cjwatsonhmm, new base-installer defaults armel to MODULES=dep13:03
cjwatsonI guess that's reasonable13:04
ogracjwatson, well, it asks for a mirror13:04
ograand only offers manual input there13:04
ogranothing preselected13:04
cjwatsonso the mirror selection component. ok13:04
ograand the dir is set to /ubuntu/ instead of /ubuntu-ports/13:04
cjwatsonI can fix that easily13:04
cjwatsonheh, that was never fixed for lpia either13:04
persiampt, regarding your comment that ichthux and ubuntume provide filtering controls: are those general solution that are but an apt-get away for other sorts of installs?13:05
ograah, and it seems to let me properly go on without kernel13:05
persiaFor lpia we just preseeded it away in the MID image, because there was only the MID image that worked.13:05
ograoh, fun now the trashed d-i UI frames changed back to look proper13:06
ograoh, wow, i havent seen the automatic updates question yet13:07
asacTheMuso: ok. false alert i think. the code looks ok now13:08
cjwatsonogra: fixed for the next d-i build13:09
ogracool !13:12
=== sommer_ is now known as sommer
=== azeem_ is now known as azeem
cjwatsonKeybuk: so, empirically, the first obvious effect of removing udevadm trigger from the installer is that it stops being able to detect the network card13:54
cjwatsonKeybuk: and it refuses to do so until I run udevadm trigger; settle13:54
cjwatson(as in, /sys/class/net contains only lo; upon running udevadm trigger eth0 it appears immediately)13:55
cjwatsons/it //13:55
elmoso, err, someone (keybuk) I think, once told me 'udevadm trigger' was how to get the system to see a hot-added RAID array13:55
elmowhat is it in the new world order?13:55
cjwatsonnow I know that class devices aren't guaranteed to show up especially immediately but still ...13:55
cjwatsonelmo: my understanding is that trigger is not necessary (any more?) because anything that trigger does should already be in udevd's queue13:56
cjwatsonso ISTM that it's a bug if trigger is needed13:56
elmoah, ok13:57
Keybukcjwatson: we'll look at the sprint14:09
KeybukI'd guess that the network card modules weren't there when udev's installer-startup script ran udevtrigger14:10
Keybukand they were installed later14:10
mptpersia, no idea, all I know is that their Web sites advertise them.14:11
persiampt, OK.  I'll chase up with AnAnt or txwikinger at some point then.  Thanks.14:12
cjwatsonKeybuk: that's common practice in d-i14:16
Keybukbut you don't try and modprobe them?14:17
cjwatsonprobably at some point14:17
cjwatsonoh, not like individual network card drivers no14:17
rickspencer3asac: ping14:31
asacrickspencer3: hi14:31
rickspencer3I saw your policy page. Do you want me to type it into pros?14:32
rickspencer3It looks quite complete, btw14:32
asacrickspencer3: i think its ok to use the form currently used. I think what we need is some intro text explaining a bit the rational and the spirit of this14:33
asacand cleaning up the things in brackets et al.14:33
rickspencer3So you want me to do some wiki gnomiing? Just clean it up here and there?14:34
evandAnyone have experience with libglade and custom widgets?  The documentation tells me to use the custom widget container, but glade says that it's deprecated.14:34
rickspencer3asac: Is there an example of a complete policy somewhere on the wiki that would make a good example?14:34
seb128evand: that doesn't reply to your question but you should try using gtkui nowadays14:35
asacrickspencer3: Maybe MainInclusionProcess14:36
seb128evand: otherwise mvo might know about glade specifics14:36
rickspencer3asac: thnaks14:36
asacrickspencer3: but well :) ... thats not really more14:36
asacrickspencer3: i think its really just cleaning up; fix wording and do some intro text14:37
rickspencer3asac: sure. Whatever I can do to help. n/p14:37
evandseb128: ok, thanks.  I'm not familiar with gtkui and a google search just lists a bunch of modules for various projects that use a similar name.  Do you have a link to some documentation?14:38
seb128evand: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkBuilder.html14:40
evandah, indeed14:40
seb128you're welcome14:40
seb128that's the gtk equivalent of libglade14:40
seb128evand: you have scripts to convert .glade to .ui14:40
seb128evand: gtk-builder-convert14:41
cjwatsonyeah, that postdates ubiquity's original use of glade and we never converted14:42
asacrickspencer3: also there is StableReleaseUpdates14:43
evandcjwatson: any objection to converting to gtkbuilder format at some point over the course of Jaunty development (before FF)?14:43
rickspencer3asac: tx14:44
calcanyone know why kdelibs4-dev is not installable on most architectures?14:46
calckdelibs4-dev is for kde 3 btw14:47
ScottKProbably libdrm-dev not installable14:48
calcScottK: is that going to be fixed soon?14:49
* ScottK looks at bryce14:49
calcits breaking OOo so hopefully so ;-)14:50
ScottKcalc: When I looked at it, it seemed that libdrm-dev had a versioned depends on a particular kernel version that wasn't satisfied on any ports arch except armel.14:50
calcwell whatever is making kdelibs4-dev on all non amd64 arch is anyway ;-)14:50
ScottKIf it's catching i386, then it may well be another problem too.14:51
* ScottK looks into it.14:51
calcwell not sure about i386 its been held by stlport atm14:51
Riddellcalc: actually we were going to ask you about dropping kdelibs4c2a from ooo14:51
Riddellcalc: can you make ooo just use the Qt stuff but not the KDE native dialogue stuff?14:52
calcRiddell: hmm maybe, i'm not certain14:52
calcif some kde hacker wants to fix kde4 support in OOo that would be great too :)14:52
Riddellcalc: yes that would be the best option of course14:53
cjwatsonevand: not at all, as long as it can work with something like the separated glade file format we have14:53
evandcjwatson: ok, I'll look into it14:53
calcRiddell: so the libdrm thing is why its not installable anywhere for right now?14:53
ScottKThat's at least why KDE 4.2 FTBFS on everything except i386, amd64, and armel.14:55
* calc notes his connection may drop soon due to at&t working on the line, its not that he just decided to leave, heh14:55
Riddellcalc: dunno, let me look14:55
calcRiddell: ok14:56
Riddellcalc: apt is installing it here on my system and in a chroot14:57
calcRiddell: yea according to scottk it should be failing on most arch due to libdrm being uninstallable15:00
Riddelllibdrm-dev installs for me15:00
Riddellon i38615:00
ScottKYeah, on i386 that's fine.15:01
ScottKIt's the non-armel ports archs15:01
calcScottK: is bryce already aware of the issue, i didn't see a bug about it in LP15:01
ScottKNo idea.15:02
ScottKIt's been on my list to ask.15:02
calci'll file a bug with some of this log in it15:02
ScottKYou can toss in some kde4libs build logs too if you want.  It failed on all the same archs (which is why I know)15:03
cjwatsonoh, presumably due to kernel desync then15:03
cjwatsonlinux-ports desperately needs to be brought into sync15:04
calcbryce: ping15:05
ScottKPrior to this we had KDE bulding very nicely on all the ports archs except hppa (and that due to a soyuz bug).15:06
cjwatsonSoyuz bug as in missing architecture: all packages, or something else/15:06
ScottKcjwatson: Yes.  It's the "If p-a-s says skip any binaries, let's just skip the build for the whole source package" bug.15:07
cjwatsonso you mean "no" :-)15:07
cjwatson(that's not the bug I was thinking of)15:07
ScottKNow that I've read what you wrote again, yes.  I meant no.15:07
johanbrI'll just restart X. Brb...15:10
mdeslaursiretart: thanks for the xine-lib merge!15:11
slytherinKeybuk: Since you are the last uploader of mouseemu, I was wondering if you have any idea why having mouseemu installed is causing problem with permission for /dev/null, /dev/console.15:23
slytherinKeybuk: directhex suggested it because of presence of udevadm in the init script.15:24
cjwatsonslytherin: I tried to tell you at the time but you'd left: mouseemu only calls udevadm settle, not udevadm trigger15:24
slytherincjwatson: Then what could be the problem.15:26
cjwatsonslytherin: no idea15:26
cjwatsonbut don't pick on it just for using a udevadm command that isn't the one Keybuk identified as breaking stuff ...15:26
tjaaltonScottK: why would libdrm-dev block the installation of kdelibs4-dev?15:27
slytherinhmm. so I will have to digg deeper. I will take a look at it when I go home.15:27
ScottKtjaalton: When I looked at it, that's where the dependency chain stopped.  It's blocking X -dev installs (I forget exactly which package).15:30
tjaaltonScottK: ok15:30
tjaaltonI've no idea if the ports kernels are going to be updated to 2.6.28 anytime soon, so maybe it needs something else15:31
ScottKI didn't actually check it for kdelibs4-dev (KDE3), but I did for kde4libs FTBFS.  I'm pretty sure it's the same issue.15:31
slytherinis anyone working on fixing FTBFS of xorg-server on non i386/amd64 arch? Looks like issue is due to old linux-headers15:32
tjaaltonslytherin: exactly the same issue as above15:32
slytherintjaalton: ahh, just saw your message15:32
tjaaltondrm headers moved to the kernel since 2.6.28-415:32
tjaaltonand I don't understand why the lpia kernel didn't use the same ABI, so libdrm needs to be fixed to match .28-1 for lpia..15:33
ScottKI don't suppose there's some way libsrm-dev could continue to provide them for the older kernels?15:33
tjaaltonScottK: different packages for different archs?15:33
tjaaltonsomehow I don't like the idea ;)15:34
ScottKSome arch specific ifdef magic?  Dunno, just know that change totally broke ports.15:34
tjaaltonScottK: one possible short-term fix would be to not depend on linux-libc-dev on the ports, until they provide the kernel15:41
tjaaltonthat would only break some X driver builds15:41
* calc found out at&t is going to be digging around in his yard soon15:41
ograsigh, d-i in qemu is really taking its time ...15:43
ScottKtjaalton: I don't know enough to have an opinion on how best to proceed.15:44
cjwatsonpgraner: ^- see above discussion about linux-ports15:45
cjwatsonpgraner: the desynchronisation is causing userspace problems15:45
tjaaltonpgraner: indeed..15:45
slytherinhow about getting ports kernels updated. :-) But AFAIK, TheMuso is already working on that.15:46
pittigeser: o_O "$ pkcon resolve hal" -> Fehler: package-not-found : Package name pkcon could not be resolved15:46
pittigeser: I noticed that my jockey test suite fails, and it seems that pkcon mixes up the package name nwo?15:46
tjaaltonwell, adding this band-aid solution would at least allow the non-X parts to build15:46
pittigeser: sorry, that should have been "glatzor"15:47
Babydoes anyone know how to activate GLX in Xephyr?16:00
=== pedro__ is now known as pedro_
Tm_Tok, should I scream it here if xine packages breaks with dpkg ?16:09
cjwatsonyou should file a bug16:09
Tm_Thrrr, have to try to find working browser then16:10
Babyyou're free to scream if you want too, anyway ;)16:12
* ogra points Tm_T to man ubuntu-bug 16:13
Tm_Togra: aaah, that's new to me16:16
Tm_Tanyway, got Konq to work, so, http://paste.ubuntu.com:80/111264/16:16
Tm_Tso something weird happens that causes dpkg: ../../src/packages.c:221: process_queue: Assertion ependtry <= 4' failed.16:20
cjwatsonTm_T: should be fixed in jaunty16:29
Tm_Tcjwatson: I'm in intrepid, hmmm, so this wasn't my doings then16:30
jcastromvo: iirc update-manager disables PPA addresses on upgrade right?16:31
Tm_Tcjwatson: thanks, have to look about this, I got interested16:32
james_wjcastro: it does. It has a whitelist though, not sure if any PPAs are in that16:33
jcastrojames_w: I was just thinking that it might be a good idea to do a rename on the urls for the new PPAs on the next upgrade16:34
james_wjcastro: it could probably do that as it disables them.16:35
james_wjcastro: the worth of it depends on how long the old URLs work I imagine16:35
jcastroor at least leave a note in a comment16:35
james_wif they get turned off soon then most people will have had to deal with it before upgrade16:35
mvojcastro: yes16:35
mvojcastro: the trouble is that external repos (including ppa) quite frequently screw the upgrade calculation16:36
mvothis is why the external repositories are dissabled during upgrades, there is now a config option to override that16:36
jcastromvo: how about a note in the comments when you disable it with a link to the new URL or something?16:37
jcastromvo: informing people that the url has changed would be easier than trying to do it for them I think16:37
mvojcastro: sure, I could do that, disable and update in one go so that its easier for them to re-enable it16:38
mvojcastro: that is a good idea16:38
jcastromvo: yeah, they have to reenable it by hand anyway, so if there's a comment there that will cover people who miss the announcements.16:39
mvojcastro: thanks, I add that16:43
ScottKmvo: Do you think there's still time for you to work on the backports improvement spec if it were approved?16:46
ScottKNo point in pushing for someone to approve it if not.16:46
mvoScottK: what is the url for that?16:46
* ScottK should have anticipated you'd ask that. Just a moment.16:46
mvoScottK: was that the idea to have backports show up unticked in update-manager?16:46
mvoScottK: or to use "NotAutomatic: yes" in the release file?16:47
ScottKIt was the NotAutomatic: yes one.16:47
ScottKmvo: ^^16:47
mvoScottK: I sitll like the idea, let me check how much effort it would be16:50
evandmvo: I noticed you're using the Custom object in libglade.  I need to make use of this, but noticed that it's deprecated in glade.  Any idea what's intended to replace its functionality?16:50
ScottKmvo: Thank you.16:50
mvoevand: no, sorry. my guess is gtkuibuilder, but I have not worked that much with it yet, I don't like the addtional glade->ui file step (not a biggie of course :)16:51
evandmvo: ok, no worries16:51
evandand thanks16:51
mvocheers (also there is not a lot to thank for unfortuantely :/)16:52
superm1evand, so is the thought to just use '.ui' files instead of glade files then, or '.ui' files specifically where you need the custom widgets?16:54
mvojcastro: commited16:54
evandsuperm1: to evaluate GtkBuilder and move to that if it's not too much of a headache (that is, we don't have to merge all the glade files back together)16:55
cjwatsonI don't think we'd want a *mix* of .ui and .glade16:56
superm1besides the custom widget support, what other benefits does GtkBuilder bring to the table?16:56
jcastromvo: um, wow, that was fast, thanks!16:57
evandI haven't discovered custom widget support in it yet, but I've found this helpful in explaining the differences between the two: http://www.micahcarrick.com/05-30-2008/gtk-builder-libglade-faq.html#316:58
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
mvoScottK: my current (hopefully not too naive) feeling is that it can done reasonable painless with update-manager so I would say we should write the spec and make update-manager the first target for the implementation17:08
ScottKmvo: OK.  If you could scribble on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backports/SelectiveInstallation a bit with some idea, I can work on fleshing it out.17:10
ScottKmvo: Thanks for looking into it.17:10
superm1evand, if worst comes to worst, and gtkbuilder doesn't support using multiple .ui files and/or doesn't support custom widgets, you could always just leave a container in the glade file and add the widgets in the python source i'd think.17:10
* ScottK points NCommander at the discussion above ...17:10
mvoScottK: I think we should go with notautomatic instead of pinning, that should make it easier17:11
=== Pricey is now known as Guest39261
mvoScottK: I'm testing some ideas right now, hopefuly I should have a better opinion by tonight :)17:11
ScottKmvo: OK.  I'm more interested in the result than the design.  I think backports will become immeasuably more usable if people can enable it and leave it on without fear of unwanted upgrades.  Thanks.17:11
ScottKPinning was NCommander's idea anyway ....17:12
mvoScottK: agreed!17:12
mvoScottK: thanks for the reminder about it, its one of the things that should really be done :)17:12
NCommanderer, what?17:12
* ScottK slaps NCommander around a bit, just to keep him dazed and confused.17:13
tseliotsabdfl1: you've got mail ;)17:15
evandsuperm1: indeed, though I'd ideally like to avoid that :)  Someone on #gtk+ helped me with custom GTK widgets, so I may have that sorted shortly.17:17
davmor2the new pulseaudio update seems to remove my intel hda audio device from output on Sound Preferences and I get no audio after the login music17:34
=== ivoks_ is now known as ivoks
* robbiew fights with broadband...using windows right now...rebooting back to linux and crossing fingers18:06
calcat&t is running a new wire to my house :)18:28
=== robbiew1 is now known as robbiew
DexterFwill open vm tools provide me a working Xserver for kub8.10 running in vmware workstation 6.5.0?19:34
directhexseems my new graphics card definitely doesn;t work on intrepid, with nv or nvidia19:58
calci got at&t to upgrade my line the day after i get back from germany :)20:08
calcgoing from 3.0/0.5 to 10.0/1.5 :)20:08
calcstill not as good as FIOS but not too shabby20:08
* ScottK hugs his FIOS.20:11
calci bet at&t will roll out better stuff once comcast here rolls out their 50/10 this summer20:28
redvamp128quick question-- where can I find the changelog for kernel updates?20:52
RAOFaptitude changelog linux20:53
redvamp128last night I downloaded it and clicked on the update description and it was unavailible20:54
redvamp128Though one thing to note-- this one seems to make the hard drive a little more quiet20:55
redvamp128RAOF:  thanks that worked--20:58
ogracjwatson, fyi my netinstall finished properly20:58
redvamp128I know this is a room for ubuntu development-- but I have an interesting issue with using LXDE window manager-- lack of volume control -- has anyone heard of this issue?21:00
redvamp128Gnome-openbox or Gnome does not have this issue or the XFCE (XUBUNTU-desktop)21:01
keesdoko_: in openjdk-6's Makefile.in, there is this line:21:02
kees  $(TAR) xf $(OPENJDK_SRC_ZIP) -C openjdk; \21:02
keessince OPENJDK_SRC_ZIP in a tar.gz, tar execs gzip.  but the Makefile.in has exported the "GZIP" environment variable.21:03
keesgzip will think this is a cmdline argument and die.21:03
keeslater in the Makefile, you can see work-around for this:21:04
keesGZIP=$(GZIP_ENV) gunzip -c $(distdir).tar.gz ....21:04
keesdoko_: so, mostly, I can't understand how the buildds don't explode when my local builds do.21:04
mneptokkees: i blame usplash-mnepolo21:06
keesmneptok: haha, it was pwning my eyes, so I uninstalled it.  :)21:06
cjwatsonogra: woo21:10
doko_kees: it's not used, the ALTERNATE_something is used21:40
keesdoko_: something weird is going on with it, but I've worked around it21:41
doko_works without problems for me21:42
keesyeah, I think "make" is doing something funny because I have GZIP in my environment21:43
cjwatsonkees: make re-exports variables if they're already present when it starts21:44
cjwatsonkees: more precisely, it leaves their export status alone21:44
keescjwatson: ah-ha.  that would do it.21:44
keesi have an exported GZIP, and when the Makefile sets it to /bin/gzip, the build explodes.  wheee21:44
* kees swore sbuild cleared the environment21:45
cjwatsonkees: you may need either 'export GZIP' or 'unexport GZIP' depending on the direction of the problem21:45
slangaseksounds like 'unexport GZIP'''21:45
keesah... it's just debuild that had the preserved list...21:46
keesdoko_: how do you avoid dpkg-source -b screaming about your @lists.launchpad.net Maintainer field?22:22
doko_kees, oh didn't see it. maybe I should patch it in when generating the control file22:23
cjwatsonmy usual solution is DEBEMAIL=cjwatson@debian.org dpkg-whatever22:25
cjwatsonthen it's just a warning22:25
cjwatsonwe should probably extend dpkg to recognise @lists.launchpad.net as valid for Ubuntu22:25
keescjwatson: I was pondering that, and I'm not sure it makes sense since upstreams (not in Ubuntu) can use that address too22:28
DexterFcan't find a package containing /usr/share/kde4/services/desktopthemedetails.desktop22:35
keescjwatson: i.e. if I set my DEBEMAIL to something non-ubuntu, it will warn?22:36
DexterFpointers where I might find that? wanna change the plasma looks on kde422:36
cjwatsonkees: rather than error, yes22:37
ScottKDexterF: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=desktopthemedetails.desktop&mode=exactfilename&suite=jaunty&arch=any22:38
DexterFScottK: plain weird. I installe kdebase-workspace, shouldn't that have pulled it as a dep?22:38
ScottKDexterF: I'd have thought so.  Do you have kdebase-workspace-data installed?22:39
=== dwatson is now known as davewatson
DexterFScottK: actually, yes. but the file isn't on disk. dpkg -L doesn't list it as well.22:41
ScottKDexterF: --> #kubuntu-devel22:41
ScottKLet's discuss there.22:41
blueyedredvamp128: "aptitude changelog linux"?22:47
slangasekaw man, why does aptitude keep adding features that lure people into using it22:47
blueyed(sry, backlog has not scrolled - and I've typed the nick by name, without realizing) ;D22:47
elmoslangasek: they should be using dselect instead?22:47
slangasekelmo: synaptic/update-manager > apt-get > dselect > aptitude :P22:48
azeemwhere's package-kit in there?22:49
directhexslangasek, you missed the "ar, gzip, tar, & vi" method of debian package management22:49
blueyedThe question really is, why does apt not support "changelog"? or is there some other tool which allows fetching changelogs?22:49
slangasekazeem: between dselect and aptitude, maybe22:49
directhexdselectitude. there's a summer project22:50
slangasekblueyed: because apt-get was always intended to be a back-end tool, except that aptitude as a front-end sucks because its author screws around with the dependency resolver22:51
blueyed..which combines apt-get install and less /usr/share/doc/../changelog.gz22:51
cjwatsonslangasek: we're likely to be using aptitude for manual package selection in the installer once I get the relevant plumbing working again22:51
blueyedslangasek: I've never used the aptitude frontend22:51
cjwatsonI think the server team would lynch me if I made them use dselect22:51
cjwatson... maybe that should be a hidden preferene22:52
slangasekcjwatson: can we arrange to never display the fact that it's 'aptitude'? :)22:52
slangasekusing aptitude interactively is fine22:52
slangasekletting it resolve things on its own is suicide22:52
cjwatsonthe tasksel UI would just say "Manual package selection"22:52
cjwatsonI don't know whether it says it's aptitude in its UI; I assume it does22:52
slangasektime to patch the .po files ;)22:53
TheMusosusudo adduser account-name23:06
TheMusowoops wrong window23:06
* Mez wonders why 1280x960 is no longer a valid screen resolution23:21
YokoZarWould anything break if we changed the useragent string in Firefox to identify us as "Ubuntu" rather than as "Linux" ?  Over time, that would allow us to count Ubuntu users much more accurately.23:51
james_wUbuntu is already in the user-agent23:53
savvasMozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-GB; rv: Gecko/2008121623 Ubuntu/8.10 (intrepid) Firefox/3.0.523:55
YokoZarjames_w: so how come all the websites publishing browser statistics just say "Linux" ?23:55
james_wYokoZar: well, there's a difference between OS and vendor23:55
james_wpresumably they are just recording OS23:55
savvasBecause we're not that big yet :P And we're a strong community hehe23:55
YokoZarBasically I want to count Ubuntu users using this sort of metric: number of people on web times percentage on linux times percentage of linux on ubuntu -- those last two steps could be much more accurate if they just used that data23:56
YokoZaradmittedly we probably have a disproportionate (compared to other OSes) number of users not on the web, so this would undercount Ubuntu a bit23:57
ajmitchwhy do you think there's a disproportionate number not on the web?23:58
savvasYokoZar: so how do you know which company's web site to count?23:59
savvasgoogle.com or msn.com search? what if microsoft or google forge numbers to favour something else?23:59

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